My phone calls with Tony Turner

[BobbyC]

Hi everybody! When I first read All That Glittered I thought it was the funniest GD thing I ever read, with the exception maybe of Boy George's Take it Like a Man. It was like Mary Wilson would tell the same stories in a very genteel way, but Tony would cover the same stuff and make it sound hilariously trashy! I rolled laughing! Anyway back in the 90's I decided to send TT a fan letter asking him to call me if he ever wanted to discuss his days with The Supremes and later the Temptations. I forgot all about that letter and was at the gym one day and I heard over the intercom that I was wanted on the phone--my roommate of the time had an urgent message for me. I had a 23 YO beagle then and my stomach sank when I got the message that I had a phone call. I was sure my dog died but nope. It was Tony Turner calling! I just about died. He told my roommate he'd call back in a couple of hours so I rushed home. Tony called me back and we spoke for three hours. It was fascinating. I'm going to share what he had to say here--but everybody please, before I post this stuff, understand that he had zero bad to say about anybody. The phone call was hilarious! I'll wait a bit before I talk about the call, and if Tony is out there he can tell me to shut up and I'll respect that. It was all positive! But I think you guys would enjoy hearing what TT had to say about his time with these Motown legends.

[markdtiller]

You are teasing us, can't wait. Wish you had taped the call!

[jobeterob]

It was thought or known he was on here years back, just as crazy as ever

[midnightman]

Wow, I just read Tony's book online. I was expecting this outlandish book but I'll be damned... Tony went in on Diana and Mary. Now I kinda find myself interested. Still freaks me out that a random 12-year-old got to be around them like that. Crazy story.

[BobbyC]

Hey guys and girls. Sorry it's been so long since I got back to you. Now before I start posting, remember that all I had to go on when talking to Tony was his book. I expected him to bash Diana and Mary but he didn't. So any questions I asked were based on what he had said in his books.

[Boogiedown]

Yea! Something fresh at Soulful Detroit to tune into !:cool:

Carry on BobbyC , I'm hooked !

[BobbyC]

So anyway--one of the things I asked him was if he thought Mary could sing and he seemed slightly taken back--he said something to the effect of hell yes mary can sing. He told me he'd seen that girl bring the house down many many times. He said her voice wasn't suited to the old Supreme's hits, and I agreed. I agreed with his assessment and I told him I'd seen Mary raise the roof when I saw her at the Tralfamadore Cafe in Buffalo 1986. Tony said he remembered that show--he was there--and he even asked me if it was kind of a theater in the round, which it was. Turns out one of the pics of him and Mary in his book were taken at the show. May I make another comment? I got to meet Mary after her show [[a friend had gotten me Dreamgirl which turned me onto the whole Motown thang) and she kissed me and said I was "cute." A month earlier I had been shoved out the way by Diana Ross in a nightclub in NYC [[true story). So there I was--one Supreme kissed me and said i was cute, but DR shoved me. I was like maybe these Supremes' stories were all true after all.

[BobbyC]

Coming right up, Boogie.

[BobbyC]

So somehow or another the topic of Eddie Kendrick's funeral came up. At this point I'd read Tony's book on the Temptations and thought it was as funny as All That glittered. Tony said he went to Eddie's funeral but Eddie's brothers didn't want him there at all. They told him if he showed up, they would kill him. I don't remember if TT actually attended, but I told him I didn't understand why people took his books way too seriously. It was all humor! He seemed relieved to hear that, and said THANK YOU. I got the feeling he didn't understand the hostility either. TT went on to say he was on a book tour somewhere in the US, and some lady came up to him and asked how he could write such "awful things" about the Motown stars. Obviously she didn't get the joke.

[BobbyC]

We talked about Mary's book Dreamgirl. TT said Mary wrote a good chunk of the book in a pool house on his property. He told me the original version of Dreamgirl was much more "street" than what eventually hit the stores. The publisher made her write it in a more genteel way, which she did with her co-writer. Mary couldn't remember hardly anything about the Supreme's glory days--she had to depend on fan's scrap books and memories to jog her memory.

[BobbyC]

Somehow Scherrie Payne came up. He gushed about how sweet she was, and a powerful singer as well. He said Scherrie was one of the nicest people he ever met, a sentiment many of my Supremes fans have echoed.

[BobbyC]

One of my favorite lines in TT's Temptations book was when David Ruffin, according to TT, told him "As long as I am living, don't you EVER tell me when to take the stage, you MF'ing taskmaster diva BIAYTCH!!!!" So naturally I asked him about this. I said "Tony are you seriously trying to tell me David Ruffin called you a MFing taskmaster diva biatch?" Tony seemed kinda hurt by this question, and informed me in no uncertain terms "Yes he did! You should have heard some of the things he called me!"

[BobbyC]

TT told me that Jean Terrell was "difficult." He said Jean didn't like show biz, said it was phony, and she was put off by the Supremes' s gay fans. He thought it was because of her faith.\

[BobbyC]

I'll try to remember more,

[Bluebrock]

TT told me that Jean Terrell was "difficult." He said Jean didn't like show biz, said it was phony, and she was put off by the Supremes' s gay fans. He thought it was because of her faith.\
I hope this does not start a negative thread about Jean. She had/has views that may not be welcomed by some, but she is led by her faith and she has by and large kept those views private. We should concentrate on her glorious contribution to the Supremes legacy .That wonderful voice graced some of the finest Supremes recordings. Without her the Supremes would have been dead in the water by 1970.

[luke]

I’ve heard similar things about Jean. Why on earth did she go into show business?

[milven]

We talked about Mary's book Dreamgirl. TT said Mary wrote a good chunk of the book in a pool house on his property. He told me the original version of Dreamgirl was much more "street" than what eventually hit the stores. The publisher made her write it in a more genteel way, which she did with her co-writer. Mary couldn't remember hardly anything about the Supreme's glory days--she had to depend on fan's scrap books and memories to jog her memory.

First of all, this is the first time that I have heard that Mary wrote most of her book in a pool house on TT's property.

Second, Mary has said in countless interviews that she kept diaries and got most of the facts that she put in her book from her diaries. Here, she "told" Tony Turner that she had to depend on fan's memories. So if that is true, then many people read her book thinking that it was bible with first hand info about the group. Now we have two conflicting stories. Which do we believe? First hand info from Mary who lived it and had her diaries to back up the facts, or second hand or fabricated info from a fan or fanatic?

ESSENCE.COM: Wow, that’s extremely young. How did you manage school and being in the group?
MARY WILSON: It was tough. I was quite good in English and I can still remember my English teacher saying, “I know you are singing with this little group, but if you want to keep on singing right now I don’t think you’re going to pass this class.” So I wrote up this essay and it was about where I thought my life was and he told me the paper is brilliant and passed me. It’s exciting because it ended up being the first chapter of my book, “Dream Girl.” From then on I kept diaries of all of our travels until I was 45, and those journals helped me to write my book. Journaling is a good thing, because when so much time passes you really do forget the [minute] details and they go into a black hole. Although I don’t really read them now, It really kept me grounded and kept me in synch with my life’s journey.

[BobbyC]

I didn't post any of this to start any crap about any of these Motown artists. Regarding gay people and Jean Terrell. The feeling I got from TT and several other Supremes' fans was that Jean was almost unaware of gay people existing until she joined the Supremes and crashed head first into their legion of gay fans. Those were very different times back then. People just didn't understand. If I had one wish in life it would be that people would start talking to each other honestly instead of attacking and smearing people who have different opinions. When I meet people who are not exactly gay friendly, I see them as a work in progress. I have personally had some of the most hard headed right-leaning people totally come around--but I had to communicate with them and not look down on them.Once they accept you, they are friends for life. Anyway I don't feel any differently about Jean after learning this.

[BobbyC]

Milven I think you are being really unfair. Several authors have said variations of the same thing in terms of Mary's failing memory. Mary had to see a hypnotist to recover some of those memories. I am sure that her books were a combination of her memories, her diaries and fan inputs. Mary was way too busy back then to write a detailed diary.

[luke]

Regardless of the gay issue it seems odd if she doesnt like show biz that she went into show biz!

[sup_fan]

very interesting memories to share Bobby. of course i'm sure you realize the pandora's box you've opened lolol

a lot of fan are particularly opinionated about TT because he took such an extreme approach to the style in which he wrote his novels and the fact that many of the stories he includes have been highly disputed. So then what was his real purpose in writing these books? many feel he was simply an opportunist that was wrongly profiting off of the legacy and legend of the group

[BobbyC]

I don't know why TT wrote his books but I think it's just the fact that he had a story to tell, or several as the case may be. I found his books to be hilarious and don't take them as seriously as a lot of people seem to do. TT was very funny on this call but I also sense he totally respected all these artists. His books didn't change my impressions of anybody.

[sup_fan]

i too found the stories very funny and quote-able. his one liners are a riot

but if he had such respect for the artists then why publish such a negative story? or in many cases if the story really isn't true, why would he want to erode the public perception of an artist?

[BobbyC]

Sup I'm just telling you how he came across. He didn't bash anybody when I talked to him--I guess I was expecting him to after reading his books. Oh I just remembered another thing he said. Remember in TT's book where he claimed Berry Gordy said [[of Mary Wilson) "That is a stupid woman! A STUPID WOMAN!!!" Well I asked Tony if he thought Mary was stupid and he seemed almost like he didn't know why I was asking. Maybe he forgot he put that in his book. Anyway, TT responded "No I don't think Mary is stupid. Honey, she is a survivor!!!"

[Boogiedown]

Thanks for sharing BobbyC! Hope you'll add more!

The internet is a funny thing. We are allowed to come forward and share experiences and when we do, we just have to trust that people are being authentic. We have no idea if you actually spoke to Tony or not , nor if you are now recounting the conversation correctly. [[ I am not challenging you by this comment). In the same way we can't know for sure how much of Tony's books are accurate . [[ Has Mary ever commented ? If not, why not? Marv?) It's really all a matter of faith isn't it, concerning what gets put out there , you either go with it or not. In that way 'truth' is really up to each of us, we decide our own truths.

Including what is the 'real' Supremes story.

Anyway, please don't leave out what you remember for fear of ruffling feathers. Again, people can accept your accounts, .....of Tonys accounts .... or not !! And they are free to respond as they choose to as well! All you can do is lay it out there.

I'm hoping for more BobbyC!:cool:

[Boogiedown]

When has anybody last heard from Tony Turner? I see a reviewer on Amazon refers to him as "the late Tony Turner". That appeared on July 28, 2014:


The late Tony Turner managed to take his real life experiences
with The Supremes and bring them to light with a 3-D scalpel precision.
Other books about the late Flo Ballard and the exploits of Motown and
the Supremes dance around the bitchiness, deceit and the insecurities.
Even the biography of Florence Ballard written by her own sister seemed
to stay focused on the mawkish downward slope and drunken behavior of
the star and sadly, even Mary Wilson, who attempted to "tell it like it
is" on her second book still held back a LOT. Turner took no prisoners
and he wasn't catty about it. We start off with him as a boy from the
Projects of NYC who had a chance meeting with Florence Ballard ...................

It seems to go unchallenged.

[BobbyC]

Well Boogie I wouldn't waste my time telling you guys about the talk if I was just making it up.Why would I? I am extremely careful about what I post mostly because I am honest by nature and don't want to misrepresent anybody or anything. RE: TT's book and whether or not it's all true. I think he exaggerated a lot of things, and frankly nobody can remember exact quotes from decades ago, as he did for his books. I don't really care. It's funny as hell! I really doubt anybody takes All That Glittered as a serious, go-to book on Motown. I have friends who know Tony personally--many don't like him. They said he made the book sound like he was right there with the Supremes every step of the way, and he wasn't. I however, reread the book and there were tons of times sited where the Supremes were not anywhere near NYC or TT. I don't know. I don't know Tony at all other than that phone call--but it was clear he knew his stuff.

[BobbyC]

Oh and by the way. I only recall ONE TIME where Mary was asked about TT and his books, and she dismissed him out of hand, calling him a "disgruntled prior employee." A pretty generic defense and I noticed Mary didn't deny any of it. In fact it's now coming back to me--when speaking to TT and discussing how everybody got upset with him about the stories in his book, TT pointedly asked me several times "Did anyone actaully say these stories were untrue? No." I think TT would have been sued had he just made a bunch of crap up. A third book was rumored to be coming out years ago where TT was supposedly going to claim to have had an affair with Berry Gordy--I don't know if that's true, but BG took it seriously enough to put a stop to it. I don't think Berry liked men at all, not in that sense, and I also don't know if TT was going to say he did. TT and I did not speak about that rumor--it may not even surfaced yet at the time of this call.

[blackguy69]

The story on how he said Flo got fired contradicts what everyone else said what happened that night.

[sup_fan]

Sup I'm just telling you how he came across. He didn't bash anybody when I talked to him--I guess I was expecting him to after reading his books. Oh I just remembered another thing he said. Remember in TT's book where he claimed Berry Gordy said [[of Mary Wilson) "That is a stupid woman! A STUPID WOMAN!!!" Well I asked Tony if he thought Mary was stupid and he seemed almost like he didn't know why I was asking. Maybe he forgot he put that in his book. Anyway, TT responded "No I don't think Mary is stupid. Honey, she is a survivor!!!"

please note i'm not trying to be critical of you for sharing your dialog with TT. :) definitely appreciate your taking the time to post and initiate a discussion


Now in regards to the stars' reactions to his books, some fans on here that knew them personally have said that many did make efforts or try to push back. I remember some saying that Scherrie was VERY unhappy with her quote being used on the back jacket to Glitter, that she had not read a final or complete version of the book and was in no ways endorsing it.

And i thought others said the Temp book did spark some issues with stars having their lawyers reach out to Tony

[midnightman]

I feel Tony is one of those who dishes tea straight out, no chaser. As I think about it, he actually praised all three Supremes in his book. He quoted others, like Gordy, saying Mary was stupid. He never said that about her. Seems after Flo, he was closest to Mary, which makes sense. Diana definitely isolated herself from everyone. His book humanized all three of them.

Jean Terrell's attitude doesn't surprise me. She and Mary almost always butted heads. Jean strikes me as even more isolated than Diana [[i.e., her dislike of show business).

It also seems we have now heard like five different accounts of how Florence died. TT was off on the date btw. She died on Feb. 22, 1976, TT had it at Feb. 15, after Valentine's.

Most books do confirm Diana could be too much to handle though I argue that they went harder on her cause she's a woman. What more did you find from Tony, Bobby?

I need to read the Deliver book, PRONTO!

[milven]

How many of you were around when Top Diva started this discussion ten years ago? Top Diva was also thought to be TT incognito. Ralph eventually banned Top Diva.

https://soulfuldetroit.com/showthread.php?612-Blues-and-soul-magazine-s-sharon-davis-on-tony-turner

[BobbyC]

I think Tony had lots of good things to say about the Supremes, but not all of it was. He also clearly loved David Ruffin and Dennis E. Berry Gordy got the most praise. Oh yeah--and Tony was asked if he wrote ATG because he had something against Mary. He got kind of uppity and said "If I had something against her, this book would have had to be printed on ASBESTOS!!! LOL!!!

[thanxal]

How many of you were around when Top Diva started this discussion ten years ago? Top Diva was also thought to be TT incognito. Ralph eventually banned Top Diva.

https://soulfuldetroit.com/showthread.php?612-Blues-and-soul-magazine-s-sharon-davis-on-tony-turner
There are LOTS of people running around with multiple avatars posting as if they are different people or hiding behind anonymity. Years ago the site used to display IP addresses in the header of the message. Its not a fool-proof method to prevent such behavior. but in my experience running blogs and such, it cuts down on a lot of it.

[lakeside]

How many of you were around when Top Diva started this discussion ten years ago? Top Diva was also thought to be TT incognito. Ralph eventually banned Top Diva.

https://soulfuldetroit.com/showthread.php?612-Blues-and-soul-magazine-s-sharon-davis-on-tony-turner

I was around when Top Diva was spewing forth some outrageous claims.
One of my favorites [[and there were many) is when Top Diva announced
TT was giving a lecture at a certain university and it was SOLD OUT and
standing room only [[large auditorium). This was years after ATG came out. Some of them probably didn't even know The Supremes, let alone TT. Someone on the board here called the university to verify this...they
had never heard of TT and there was no such 'lecture then or ever! LOL!

[luke]

Didn’t TT write he left working for Mary because he had enough of her diva behavior?

[BobbyC]

Luke yes he did. I have heard that the two of them made up years ago, however. I uope so--I never hold grudges.

[Roberta75]

How many of you were around when Top Diva started this discussion ten years ago? Top Diva was also thought to be TT incognito. Ralph eventually banned Top Diva.

https://soulfuldetroit.com/showthread.php?612-Blues-and-soul-magazine-s-sharon-davis-on-tony-turner

I have a real strong hunch Tony Top Diva Turner is back among us.

[BobbyC]

I hope you are not talking about me, Roberta. I am most definitely not TT.

[midnightman]

Didn’t TT write he left working for Mary because he had enough of her diva behavior?

Yeah in the epilogue to ATG. He departed in 1987 after Mary ranted that the place she was performing at had no dressing room.

[captainjames]

Question: If Tony Turner is dead or died, can someone tell me where his body is buried.

[marybrewster]

First of all, this is the first time that I have heard that Mary wrote most of her book in a pool house on TT's property.

Second, Mary has said in countless interviews that she kept diaries and got most of the facts that she put in her book from her diaries. Here, she "told" Tony Turner that she had to depend on fan's memories. So if that is true, then many people read her book thinking that it was bible with first hand info about the group. Now we have two conflicting stories. Which do we believe? First hand info from Mary who lived it and had her diaries to back up the facts, or second hand or fabricated info from a fan or fanatic?

ESSENCE.COM: Wow, that’s extremely young. How did you manage school and being in the group?
MARY WILSON: It was tough. I was quite good in English and I can still remember my English teacher saying, “I know you are singing with this little group, but if you want to keep on singing right now I don’t think you’re going to pass this class.” So I wrote up this essay and it was about where I thought my life was and he told me the paper is brilliant and passed me. It’s exciting because it ended up being the first chapter of my book, “Dream Girl.” From then on I kept diaries of all of our travels until I was 45, and those journals helped me to write my book. Journaling is a good thing, because when so much time passes you really do forget the [minute] details and they go into a black hole. Although I don’t really read them now, It really kept me grounded and kept me in synch with my life’s journey.

I've also heard from several sources, Mary included, that the "original" version of DREAMGIRL [[originally titled REFLECTIONS) wasn't as "trashy" as the version that hit the bookshelves. The publishers wanted "dish" and Mary had to go back and add some "juice".

So to hear they wanted it more "genteel" makes no sense.

[BobbyC]

MaryB--I am simply telling you what was told to me but I think you are wrong here. I never said the publisher thought the first manuscript was trashy, I said it was street [[according to TT). I would imagine the publisher wanted an upscale offering to sell to an aging baby boomer generation who saw the Supremes as pure class. Maybe a book with a street vibe didn't jive with that image. Now putting juicier crap in there is something else entirely. The public wants that--it's more about content than style. TT's books IMO are trashy in a good way. But street? I'm on the fence with that one. Certainly more street than Mary's stuff. I like both.

[Boogiedown]

How many of you were around when Top Diva started this discussion ten years ago? Top Diva was also thought to be TT incognito. Ralph eventually banned Top Diva.

https://soulfuldetroit.com/showthread.php?612-Blues-and-soul-magazine-s-sharon-davis-on-tony-turner

fascinating. thanks for the link milven!

[marybrewster]

Don't get me wrong, I loved GLITTERED and ate up every single word. This was a time where much wasn't written about the Supremes, so we took it as bible. In the years since, much of what was written is questionable.

That doesn't diminish the entertainment value. One of my favorite passages is when Cindy joins the Supremes and TT talks about pushing her down a set of stairs and "rolling his big self on top of her". PURE CAMP.

And then Cindy cooking in her hotel room with a hot plate and spices. I was DEAD.

[BobbyC]

Hee hee, Mary! Yeah that was hilarious! Who would even think about knocking poor Cindy down stairs just so Fl could come back! I'll bet C didn't even know she was in danger! Another favorite line for me was when the musc director took People away from Flo, saying there were too many show tunes and Flo allegedly bellowed back "TAKE OUT ONE OF MISS THING'S SONGS THEN!!!"

[marybrewster]

Or when Jean is wearing a pixie wig and Delcina screams "JEAN! YOU'RE A BIG GIRL!"

Lots of memorable quotes, lol.

[BobbyC]

"wrong wrong wrong!!!"

[Roberta75]

Hee hee, Mary! Yeah that was hilarious! Who would even think about knocking poor Cindy down stairs just so Fl could come back! I'll bet C didn't even know she was in danger! Another favorite line for me was when the musc director took People away from Flo, saying there were too many show tunes and Flo allegedly bellowed back "TAKE OUT ONE OF MISS THING'S SONGS THEN!!!"

The Miss Thing is real good fiction IMO. Flo wouldnt have used Miss Thing. Tony added that to his book. Miss Thing wasnt really used until the eraly 1970s.

[sup_fan]

i do find the book wildly entertaining.

when flo and berry were fighting and [[supposedly) he moved his arm back in a reaction, as if he might slap her. and of course Flo flipped the fuck out!!

IF YOU RAISE BACK THAT HAND TO HIT ME, YOU'RE GONNA PULL BACK A BLOODY STUMP!!!!!

and then after Berry storms out of the dressing room, she shouts down the hall "AND DON'T YOU EVER WALK OUT ON ME!!!! I'LL CUT YOU TOO SHORT TO SHIT!!!"



and who could forget his lines in Deliver Us about what David called Martha when she was snatching up all the money from the gig and leaving


Tambourine thumping project whore

horse-throated tramp

[midnightman]

The Miss Thing is real good fiction IMO. Flo wouldnt have used Miss Thing. Tony added that to his book. Miss Thing wasnt really used until the eraly 1970s.

Lol good point. :D

Also TT was wrong about People going to DR after their Copa residency since there is footage of Flo still leading on it by 66.

[sup_fan]

Lol good point. :D

Also TT was wrong about People going to DR after their Copa residency since there is footage of Flo still leading on it by 66.

and mary also writes about this. and the story also got incorporated into other motown books. This was a pretty damning story about diana and berry and, according to more recent accounts, it seems completely false. was is something Tony and Mary sort of concocted in their minds while trying to pull together content for Dreamgirl?

[luke]

And wasn’t there some kind of Story about Cindy parading around in her underwear and having various appetizers from a table!!lolol

[PeaceNHarmony]

and mary also writes about this. and the story also got incorporated into other motown books. This was a pretty damning story about diana and berry and, according to more recent accounts, it seems completely false. was is something Tony and Mary sort of concocted in their minds while trying to pull together content for Dreamgirl?'... sort of concocted'? Hmmm. At the time of its publication there was no public interest whatsoever in Wilson's hypnotizing story [[I repeat: story) and it was only the tie-in to superstar Diana Ross and the hit musical Dreamgirls that stirred any interest. Alternative facts needed to be created. Many [[such as what you quote) have been proven grossly misinterpreted, if not indeed false.

[reese]

and mary also writes about this. and the story also got incorporated into other motown books. This was a pretty damning story about diana and berry and, according to more recent accounts, it seems completely false. was is something Tony and Mary sort of concocted in their minds while trying to pull together content for Dreamgirl?

The first book I recall reading the PEOPLE being taken away from Flo and given to Diana story was in Nelson George's book WHERE DID OUR LOVE GO, which came out before Mary's book. I haven't read it in a while but I think he placed the event happening during a rehearsal at the Twenty Grand. Where he got the info from I have no idea.

[blackguy69]

It was published in 1985 a year before Dreamgirl.

The first book I recall reading the PEOPLE being taken away from Flo and given to Diana story was in Nelson George's book WHERE DID OUR LOVE GO, which came out before Mary's book. I haven't read it in a while but I think he placed the event happening during a rehearsal at the Twenty Grand. Where he got the info from I have no idea.

[midnightman]

and mary also writes about this. and the story also got incorporated into other motown books. This was a pretty damning story about diana and berry and, according to more recent accounts, it seems completely false. was is something Tony and Mary sort of concocted in their minds while trying to pull together content for Dreamgirl?

Might've been. I think I saw some people a few years back comment that when they saw the Supremes onstage, Florence was still singing lead on People in 1965 as well. Flo's cousin did say that Flo asked Diana to sing "People" one night cause she was too sick to do it.

I do recall Nelson George mentioning it in the first biography that went into depth on the Supremes [["Where Did Our Love Go: The Rise and Fall of the Motown Sound"). So I doubt Mary & TT concocted it but I imagine Tony got a LITTLE creative with it lol

I'm sure Flo was upset either way though because apparently the song was taken from Flo at SOME point! Flo was still with the Supremes through 1967 so I imagine this occurred in late '66 after their Asian tour.

And that "People" went to DR fully afterwards but there's no timeline as to when that occurred. I would imagine this did happen at the Copa but not on their first residency in July 1965.

[reese]

Might've been. I think I saw some people a few years back comment that when they saw the Supremes onstage, Florence was still singing lead on People in 1965 as well. Flo's cousin did say that Flo asked Diana to sing "People" one night cause she was too sick to do it.

And that "People" went to DR fully afterwards but there's no timeline as to when that occurred. I would imagine this did happen at the Copa but not on their first residency in July 1965.

Gil Askey said that Flo complained that she was too hoarse to sing PEOPLE and Diana suggested they replace it with the Symphony Medley. After that, he said he didn't recall the song being put back into the show. I don't think Diana had a full PEOPLE lead until she sang it on the FUNNY GIRL album.

[midnightman]

Gil Askey said that Flo complained that she was too hoarse to sing PEOPLE and Diana suggested they replace it with the Symphony Medley. After that, he said he didn't recall the song being put back into the show. I don't think Diana had a full PEOPLE lead until she sang it on the FUNNY GIRL album.

OH!!! So they just took the song down altogether. Wow... now THAT makes better sense than Diana given the song while Flo was still in the group.

Jesus, that's what I get for having some faith in this story...

[BobbyC]

"GIRL!! Consider your WAISTLINE!!!" LOL

[sup_fan]

OH!!! So they just took the song down altogether. Wow... now THAT makes better sense than Diana given the song while Flo was still in the group.

Jesus, that's what I get for having some faith in this story...

so we heard People on the Sept 66 Roostertail live set on Symphony EE but did not hear it in the Copa May 67 live set on HDH EE. obviously it's also not on the live set they performed at the Hollywood Bowl in April. that could be either because Flo wasn't there or it was already out of the lineup.

So somewhere within those 8 months, the song was dropped. and odds are it was dropped by the time the shit really hit the fan in early spring 67 when Flo missed those performances in New Orleans and all. just my guess

[sup_fan]

"GIRL!! Consider your WAISTLINE!!!" LOL

that heifer!

[midnightman]

so we heard People on the Sept 66 Roostertail live set on Symphony EE but did not hear it in the Copa May 67 live set on HDH EE. obviously it's also not on the live set they performed at the Hollywood Bowl in April. that could be either because Flo wasn't there or it was already out of the lineup.

So somewhere within those 8 months, the song was dropped. and odds are it was dropped by the time the shit really hit the fan in early spring 67 when Flo missed those performances in New Orleans and all. just my guess

I'm gonna guess that after the song was dropped, that's when Florence finally lost it so yeah late 66/early 67, the writing was on the wall.

[sup_fan]

in the liner notes to Symphony EE, Andy mentions that this Roostertail show was one of the last set lists prior to reducing the early hits into the medley. now i don't mean that they necessarily made that change the next day. I'm just saying the show structure as of late Sept 66 was the last major show design to keep all of the hits as full songs. By the time YKMHO and LIHANYG topped the charts is when they would have probably made the shift to the medley of early hits. seems like they always wanted 4 or 5 of the hits in full format and with You Can't Hurry Love, you now have 7 #1 songs to deal with plus My World was still a popular live song [[have heard Diana really has always loved this one too).

always curious that Where Did Our Love Go seems to have been dropped for quite a while and that was THE first hit. interesting

with YKMHO, LIHANYG, YCHL and Happening all chart toppers, you only need 1 or so of the "old" songs to fill the set list. Plus the medley which includes BL, Stop and Come see plus the fav MWIEWY. they didn't seem to want to do Where and after the Flo debacle Back in My arms was an obvious one to cut.

[sup_fan]

as for People, if they were doing the big revamp of the show around the start of 67 to include both YKMHO and Love is here, it wouldn't surprise me to find out that People was dropped around that time. Flo was getting more and more unhappy and less and less reliable. Even if it was still lingering around, they probably had a quick backup to slide in. And after a while, why bother? if she's unreliable for performing it and since everything was being built up around Diana, why hassle?

[TheMotownManiac]

Flo and Mary did People in February 67 at the Keil Opera House in St Louis. I remember being so impressed with Mary. I was disappointed that WDOLG, BIMAA, Itching, and NBH were out. Highlight for me was Mary’s People, Love Is Here and YKMHO. Diana tore it up on those two. I never cared for queen of the house, I think it must’ve been more effective in night clubs in more intimate settings.

[BobbyC]

Hi Motown Maniac. Whenever the topic of People comes up it always amazes me that no one ever mentions that Mary shared lead on that song, at least sometimes. I've heard the audio and if you ask me, and no one did, Mary totally owned that song. Even Mary herself never mentions this from what I've read and heard. I wonder why M wasn't allowed to sing the whole song? She sounded great.

[sup_fan]

I think a full Mary lead on people would have been quite nice. there have been a few bootlegs of Flo's live version and then the [[IMO) ghastly studio version for the aborted There's A Place lp. given Mary's strong capabilities on ballads, i'd have thought this would have been an obvious fit for her.

Frankly i think Flo's leads have been nice on this song but nothing sensational. nothing that would have made me sit in the audience thinking, hmmm she's miscast as simply a background singer.

IMO Flo needed something that had more action and excitement. Imagine a live version of Ain't That Good News! good lord it would have turned into a revival!! Flo had such wonderful comic timing too. a faster paced song with some fun lyrics would have worked well. Like the Millie/Rose/Mame medley and Flo taking on the Mame roll. Always through that medley would have been much better served with each girl singing a roll.

[midnightman]

Flo and Mary singing it in Japan, 66


https://youtu.be/VkpPpduybbs

[midnightman]

I think a full Mary lead on people would have been quite nice. there have been a few bootlegs of Flo's live version and then the [[IMO) ghastly studio version for the aborted There's A Place lp. given Mary's strong capabilities on ballads, i'd have thought this would have been an obvious fit for her.

Frankly i think Flo's leads have been nice on this song but nothing sensational. nothing that would have made me sit in the audience thinking, hmmm she's miscast as simply a background singer.

IMO Flo needed something that had more action and excitement. Imagine a live version of Ain't That Good News! good lord it would have turned into a revival!! Flo had such wonderful comic timing too. a faster paced song with some fun lyrics would have worked well. Like the Millie/Rose/Mame medley and Flo taking on the Mame roll. Always through that medley would have been much better served with each girl singing a roll.

They misused Flo IMHO. She proved she could be a great comic foil onstage during the standards and she could deliver in uptempo pop-soul [[Ain't That Good News). If the Supremes were really as group oriented, Motown could've truly helped Flo.

[NativeNuYorker]

I remain curious as to why there are no photos of TT and Flo in his book at all.

[sup_fan]

They misused Flo IMHO. She proved she could be a great comic foil onstage during the standards and she could deliver in uptempo pop-soul [[Ain't That Good News). If the Supremes were really as group oriented, Motown could've truly helped Flo.

completely agree. they clearly had no interest in her as a vocalist outside of a backup singer

I know i've made some comments before about some of the roughness of her recordings. Frankly many of the leads we have of Flo are not what i consider huge, massive, missed opportunities. Although some might be her voice or talent, i do agree that much of it is practice. if not given the opportunity to experiment, test and learn, how does one grow? had they been willing to develop the talents of both M and F, i think both could have emerged as interesting and engaging singers. more so than they did or at least sooner than they did