If you could "fix" one release

[sup_fan]

starting the new year with a new thread about how you could do something 'new' with one of the releases. What would you do? would you change the lineup of an album or swap some unreleased tracks? change the cover art? release a different single? and go ahead and include the solo work too.

You have a magic wand to change :) lolol

for me, i'd probably redo the NWBLS album:

1. use the correct and appropriate title of Stone Love [[notice no D)
2. redo the cover art to focus on the afro pic then better utilize the inside of the gatefold cover to incorporate more smaller pics and info on the girls
3. slight adjustment with song lineup - cut Na Na and replace with Life Beats. Possibly cut Come Together and replace with Time and Love

IMO had the girls had a megahit album with Stone Love it could have seriously altered the momentum and longevity for the "new" Supremes

another idea could be the debacle in the US with Force Behind the Power

[RanRan79]

Obviously a lot of fixing I would do throughout the catalog, but I'll focus on just one [[for the moment...I reserve the right to return to this thread with additional albums or songs to "fix":cool:): We Remember Sam Cooke.

I would switch the tracks from LA to Detroit, pure Funk Bros. I would've given the lead to Mary on "Only 16" and given Flo the lead on "A Change Gonna Come". I would've had Mary sing her usual lower part and Diana the higher part in the background on "Good News". I would've dumped that boring drawing of the girls on the cover and replaced it with:

16748

[grangertim]

Changed the mix on Eaten Alive. There was a good album there, that was lost in the mixing, in my view. On some tracks, Miss Ross - whose vocals have always been crystal clear, that is one the reasons Berry picked her as His Big Female Star - well, the listener can hardly determine what she is singing about.

I mean, running Eaten Alive over in my head:

"Animals stalking you at night,
<mumble mumble mumble>,
<mumble mumble mumble>,
<mumble> bed of leaves...."

etc.

Where oh where was Russ Terrana when Miss Ross needed him?

[RanRan79]

Well, I didn't think I'd return so soon with another fixin' but here we go: I Hear A Symphony album.

I would've scrapped "With A Song In My Heart", "Without A Song" and, even though I LOVE the next two, I would've scrapped "Stranger In Paradise" and "Wonderful, Wonderful".

I would've replaced those songs with "Take Me Where You Go", "Too Much A Little Too Soon", "Love Is Like An Itchin" [[as it was originally recorded, but completed and mixed), and the English version of "Moonlight and Kisses".

I would've kept "Yesterday", but given the lead to Mary and had the track cut in Detroit. I also would've kept "Unchained Melody" but again had the track cut in Detroit.

I probably would've changed the cover, but I can live with that.

I know what HDH were trying to do with the Symphony album, I just wish they hadn't.

[RanRan79]

Alright, I'll give Diana a turn and choose Last Time I Saw Him.

I would scrap "No Ones Gonna Be A Fool", "Love Me", "You", and "Turn Around", replacing them with "I'll Be Here", "Why Play Games", "Get It All Together" and "Let Me Be the One".

I would've probably gone with a different cover also.

[RanRan79]

I realize Florence's album was never released, however if it had been and I were going to do something different, I would keep "Like You Babe", "Yours Until Tomorrow", "It Doesn't Matter How I Say It" [[vocal as on an alternate version), "Walk On By", "Goin Out Of My Head", "Sweetness", "Everything Wonderful" [[forcing Flo to give the vocal more punch toward the end), "Love Aint Love", "Forever Faithful" and "My Heart". I would add "Tell Mama" and "Knock On Wood", two songs that I've always thought Flo would've been great with.

[SatansBlues]

Obviously a lot of fixing I would do throughout the catalog, but I'll focus on just one [[for the moment...I reserve the right to return to this thread with additional albums or songs to "fix":cool:): We Remember Sam Cooke.

I would switch the tracks from LA to Detroit, pure Funk Bros. I would've given the lead to Mary on "Only 16" and given Flo the lead on "A Change Gonna Come". I would've had Mary sing her usual lower part and Diana the higher part in the background on "Good News". I would've dumped that boring drawing of the girls on the cover and replaced it with:

16748
I agree 100% with switching the recordings from LA to Detroit. I would have probably switched out the producers as well to either HDH, Stevenson/Hunter or C. Paul.

[SatansBlues]

Changed the mix on Eaten Alive. There was a good album there, that was lost in the mixing, in my view. On some tracks, Miss Ross - whose vocals have always been crystal clear, that is one the reasons Berry picked her as His Big Female Star - well, the listener can hardly determine what she is singing about.

I mean, running Eaten Alive over in my head:

"Animals stalking you at night,
<mumble mumble mumble>,
<mumble mumble mumble>,
<mumble> bed of leaves...."

etc.

Where oh where was Russ Terrana when Miss Ross needed him?

I LOVE Diana Ross and rarely, if ever, post anything negative or second guessing any of her choices. but to me the EA album is my least favorite of her RCA years and as a whole in her musical catalog. It's her equivalent to the New Supreme's Jimmy Webb album, it was just wrong in every way, from start to finish. How were the Gibb Brothers relevant in 1985 to an r&b/pop artist like D. Ross? Their time had past and they all but washed the r&b/soul out of her voice. I would have scrapped everything about that album.

[PeaceNHarmony]

Changed the mix on Eaten Alive. There was a good album there, that was lost in the mixing, in my view. On some tracks, Miss Ross - whose vocals have always been crystal clear, that is one the reasons Berry picked her as His Big Female Star - well, the listener can hardly determine what she is singing about.

I mean, running Eaten Alive over in my head:

"Animals stalking you at night,
<mumble mumble mumble>,
<mumble mumble mumble>,
<mumble> bed of leaves...."

etc.

Where oh where was Russ Terrana when Miss Ross needed him?I'd agree - and actually maybe new vocals for some of the songs as well, those on which Diana tried to mimic Barry G a tad too much.

[SatansBlues]

Well, I didn't think I'd return so soon with another fixin' but here we go: I Hear A Symphony album.

I would've scrapped "With A Song In My Heart", "Without A Song" and, even though I LOVE the next two, I would've scrapped "Stranger In Paradise" and "Wonderful, Wonderful".

I would've replaced those songs with "Take Me Where You Go", "Too Much A Little Too Soon", "Love Is Like An Itchin" [[as it was originally recorded, but completed and mixed), and the English version of "Moonlight and Kisses".

I would've kept "Yesterday", but given the lead to Mary and had the track cut in Detroit. I also would've kept "Unchained Melody" but again had the track cut in Detroit.

I probably would've changed the cover, but I can live with that.

I know what HDH were trying to do with the Symphony album, I just wish they hadn't.
I would have scrapped everything on Side 1, except for the title track and replaced them with HDH originals. I was not a fan of those MOR tunes by the Supremes and Tops. Yes, I understand why they were done, but as a fan, I'd rather have original Motown tunes than these pop covers, even Yesterday.

[reese]

The first album that comes to mind is ROSS [[1978).

If it had been in my hands, I would have dumped all of Side 2. While I like some of the songs on that side, repeating REACH OUT I'LL BE THERE from 1971 when there were so many unreleased songs in the vault makes no sense to me. I would also have dumped SORRY DOESN'T ALWAYS MAKE IT RIGHT and TOGETHER as they had already been released three years previously on a flop single. I would saved WHERE DID WE GO WRONG and TO LOVE AGAIN for a future compilation.

Instead for Side 2, I would have opened with I WANT TO BACK THERE AGAIN. I also would have included SINCE I DON'T HAVE YOU as well as the Holland-Holland productions of FIRE DON'T BURN and WE CAN NEVER LIGHT THAT OLD FLAME AGAIN. While all of those songs did sound slightly dated by 1978, I think a good remix could have done wonders. Since THE WIZ was released around this time, I would have ended the album with the Motown version of HOME.

[daviddh]

This is difficult in some ways but easy in others....
First ...Forever Came Today was the first single to not have the usual spark. Remix needed.
I would not release Something's you never get as a single or Shame..Composer....
Just my opinion.
Lp..Let the Sunshine In..a mess .....combine sunshine and Cream...Crop....

[daviddh]

Ross solo....the Last Time I Saw Him lp needed an overhaul.another mess.
The out takes were far better.think this is a case of BG rushing out product. Before it was ready

[daviddh]

70 Supremes
Drop Jimmy Webb . Remix bad weather.

[luke]

Do something with Bad Weather. It sounds like Stevie just gave up on it but he was onto something with it.

[SatansBlues]

Do something with Bad Weather. It sounds like Stevie just gave up on it but he was onto something with it.

Bad Weather was never going to be a hit, for anybody, mix, remix, new vocals. It only had Stevie's name attached to it.

[sup_fan]

I LOVE Diana Ross and rarely, if ever, post anything negative or second guessing any of her choices. but to me the EA album is my least favorite of her RCA years and as a whole in her musical catalog. It's her equivalent to the New Supreme's Jimmy Webb album, it was just wrong in every way, from start to finish. How were the Gibb Brothers relevant in 1985 to an r&b/pop artist like D. Ross? Their time had past and they all but washed the r&b/soul out of her voice. I would have scrapped everything about that album.

i agree with you Satan [[lololol i loved typed that! laughed out loud with it lol)

to me the entire EA project was a mess, which i've said many times on here in a variety of threads. the bizarre lyrics on title track, the horrid mixing of her vocals, the clashing nasal tones between her and the Gibbs

[vgalindo]

I LOVE Diana Ross and rarely, if ever, post anything negative or second guessing any of her choices. but to me the EA album is my least favorite of her RCA years and as a whole in her musical catalog. It's her equivalent to the New Supreme's Jimmy Webb album, it was just wrong in every way, from start to finish. How were the Gibb Brothers relevant in 1985 to an r&b/pop artist like D. Ross? Their time had past and they all but washed the r&b/soul out of her voice. I would have scrapped everything about that album.
I love the Eaten Alive album. My favorite of the RCA years. And is up there with her best Motown albums. IMO. The only song I skip is the title song. That’s what makes this so interesting everyone has their favorites and dislikes.

[Bluebrock]

I LOVE Diana Ross and rarely, if ever, post anything negative or second guessing any of her choices. but to me the EA album is my least favorite of her RCA years and as a whole in her musical catalog. It's her equivalent to the New Supreme's Jimmy Webb album, it was just wrong in every way, from start to finish. How were the Gibb Brothers relevant in 1985 to an r&b/pop artist like D. Ross? Their time had past and they all but washed the r&b/soul out of her voice. I would have scrapped everything about that album.
I disagree. It was not a great album, but it had some fine moments. The title track was awful and needed a remix but the likes of Chain Reaction, Crimes of passion and Experience are up there with her best rca work.
I totally agree about the Jimmy Webb album which was an absolute disaster in every respect. It was the album that finally killed off The Supremes despite brave attempts to revive their fortunes in the following years.

[florence]

I love the Eaten Alive album. My favorite of the RCA years. And is up there with her best Motown albums. IMO. The only song I skip is the title song. That’s what makes this so interesting everyone has their favorites and dislikes.

This mirrors my opinion.

The Eaten Alive track is a complete mess - one of her worst ever singles imo although it was really only in the US and UK that it bombed so badly - it was a respectably sized hit in many territories but Chain Reaction is one of Diana's best selling solo singles globally and tracks like Crime Of Passion [[a sure fire lost UK hit), I Love Being In Love [[With You), Don't Give Up On Each Other and Love On The Line are all up there with Diana's finest.

[daviddh]

I thought Eaten Alive was a good album but the title track...I love her singing More and More and I'm Watching You.
Crimes of Passion was a lost hit.
Totally agree with what has been said previously...except the I Hear a Symphony....I would replaced the Lovers Concerto

[johnjeb]

Obviously a lot of fixing I would do throughout the catalog...

I definitely agree. Previously I suggested some album fixing for Symphony, New Ways and HDH in those respective threads. Recently I thought about comments regarding Liverpool that were made during similar discussions. It was mentioned that maybe the album should have had a stronger Motown/Funk Bros influence rather than the scaled-down garage-rock versions on that album.

I think what might have improved the album is to include the British bands original material on Side 1 - as recorded for the Liverpool LP. The Motown and Soul influenced tracks [[recorded with The Funk Bros in Detroit) could be used for Side 2.

The Beatles recorded Money, Postman, Hold On Me and non-Motown R&B Isley Bros song Twist & Shout. And of course DC5 did Do You Love Me. The Stones as well as Dusty recorded Can I Get A Witness in 1964. All good songs for a soulful Motown-style Side 2 for Liverpool.

Liverpool Side 1: You Can't Do That, World Without Love, House Of The Rising Sun, Because, Can't Buy Me Love, Hard Day's Night
Liverpool Side 2: You've Really Got A Hold On Me, Do You Love Me, Money, Please Mr Postman, Can I Get A Witness, Twist & Shout

Essentially it was an album that really didn't need to be released at all.

[daviddh]

Obviously a lot of fixing I would do throughout the catalog, but I'll focus on just one [[for the moment...I reserve the right to return to this thread with additional albums or songs to "fix":cool:): We Remember Sam Cooke.

I would switch the tracks from LA to Detroit, pure Funk Bros. I would've given the lead to Mary on "Only 16" and given Flo the lead on "A Change Gonna Come". I would've had Mary sing her usual lower part and Diana the higher part in the background on "Good News". I would've dumped that boring drawing of the girls on the cover and replaced it with:

16748

I totally agree with everything you stated including the cover art

[daviddh]

The first album that comes to mind is ROSS [[1978).

If it had been in my hands, I would have dumped all of Side 2. While I like some of the songs on that side, repeating REACH OUT I'LL BE THERE from 1971 when there were so many unreleased songs in the vault makes no sense to me. I would also have dumped SORRY DOESN'T ALWAYS MAKE IT RIGHT and TOGETHER as they had already been released three years previously on a flop single. I would saved WHERE DID WE GO WRONG and TO LOVE AGAIN for a future compilation.

Instead for Side 2, I would have opened with I WANT TO BACK THERE AGAIN. I also would have included SINCE I DON'T HAVE YOU as well as the Holland-Holland productions of FIRE DON'T BURN and WE CAN NEVER LIGHT THAT OLD FLAME AGAIN. While all of those songs did sound slightly dated by 1978, I think a good remix could have done wonders. Since THE WIZ was released around this time, I would have ended the album with the Motown version of HOME.
Can't wait for the expanded edition to come out to see what other gems were left behind but I have to agree....the use of some tracks on side 2 were ridiculous and far below par for an artist like Ross. Some one was a sleep at the wheel nor do I understand Ross for letting it get this far. But it seems she started to take control shortly after this. Can't remember who produced You were the one and never say.....but hopefully there are some unreleased gems by him.he could have produced the entire album imo.

[reese]

Can't wait for the expanded edition to come out to see what other gems were left behind but I have to agree....the use of some tracks on side 2 were ridiculous and far below par for an artist like Ross. Some one was a sleep at the wheel nor do I understand Ross for letting it get this far. But it seems she started to take control shortly after this. Can't remember who produced You were the one and never say.....but hopefully there are some unreleased gems by him.he could have produced the entire album imo.

Greg Wright produced those two tracks. Two of the best on that album, IMO. Too bad YOU WERE THE ONE wasn't released as a single.

[daviddh]

Greg Wright produced those two tracks. Two of the best on that album, IMO. Too bad YOU WERE THE ONE wasn't released as a single.
thanks for refreshing my memory ,his name escaped me for a bit but I totally agree,two gems on that album by him

[Thornton]

My first thought was the Jimmy Webb album, but I agree that releasing NWBLS as "Stone Love," with the single having the same name, could have been an iconic album. Had that "fix" been made, there might not have been a need to "fix" the Jimmy Webb album.

[PeaceNHarmony]

HE - all leads to S&S

[daviddh]

Supremes sing hdh....
Replace.... same old song and heatwave....or remix both tracks...both seem weak in this collection.

[Motown Eddie]

I definitely agree. Previously I suggested some album fixing for Symphony, New Ways and HDH in those respective threads. Recently I thought about comments regarding Liverpool that were made during similar discussions. It was mentioned that maybe the album should have had a stronger Motown/Funk Bros influence rather than the scaled-down garage-rock versions on that album.

I think what might have improved the album is to include the British bands original material on Side 1 - as recorded for the Liverpool LP. The Motown and Soul influenced tracks [[recorded with The Funk Bros in Detroit) could be used for Side 2.

The Beatles recorded Money, Postman, Hold On Me and non-Motown R&B Isley Bros song Twist & Shout. And of course DC5 did Do You Love Me. The Stones as well as Dusty recorded Can I Get A Witness in 1964. All good songs for a soulful Motown-style Side 2 for Liverpool.

Liverpool Side 1: You Can't Do That, World Without Love, House Of The Rising Sun, Because, Can't Buy Me Love, Hard Day's Night
Liverpool Side 2: You've Really Got A Hold On Me, Do You Love Me, Money, Please Mr Postman, Can I Get A Witness, Twist & Shout

Essentially it was an album that really didn't need to be released at all.

While I've never been a fan of A Bit Of Liverpool, I think The Supremes might've fared well with versions of Dusty Springfield's "I Only Want To Be With You" or "Wishin' & Hopin'". Also think that Petula Clark's "Downtown" could've worked for them on that album.

[daviddh]

While I've never been a fan of A Bit Of Liverpool, I think The Supremes might've fared well with versions of Dusty Springfield's "I Only Want To Be With You" or "Wishin' & Hopin'". Also think that Petula Clark's "Downtown" could've worked for them on that album.


Not a bad idea at all. Add the funk Bros would have worked much better

[johnjeb]

While I've never been a fan of A Bit Of Liverpool, I think The Supremes might've fared well with versions of Dusty Springfield's "I Only Want To Be With You" or "Wishin' & Hopin'". Also think that Petula Clark's "Downtown" could've worked for them on that album.


Yes, the two Dusty songs that you mention would have been welcome additions. Downtown didn't hit the US charts until December 1964. Most of the tracks for Liverpool were recorded in September of that year and the album was released in late October.

The album contained only songs by British male groups. The addition of songs that paid tribute to female British singers would have been a nice touch.

I think the concept for the album was to appeal to fans of the male British groups and to take advantage of the British Invasion craze. I wonder how many Beatles tribute albums there were during 1964 and 1965. They seemed to be everywhere. Even the Chipmunks had an album of Beatles songs in 1964.

[grangertim]

One other thing I would fix is the much-derided Workin' Overtime.

The concept - moving into House/Dance/Jack-swing - is a sound idea. Look at what was about then, and the sound of Workin' Overtime was on-trend. I am thinking Janet Jackson, Paula Abdul - hell, even Madonna was into it at the time.

The biggest problem was Workin' Overtime, the lead track. What the hell...? A song about working hard? Nile should have said a firm NO. Imagine WO without the insipid and senseless lyrics, instead it being a song with strong street cred, about - I don't know, maybe the AIDS epidemic, or homelessness, or rising gun or knife crime - something urban and topical. I mean, musically, WO is on trend. It just needed better lyrics - *much* better lyrics [[oh, and to ditch the gimmicky scratching record sound effect).

Some other songs on that album are pretty good. Paradise is a good song. I always wondered to whom the lyric was targetted. Was Tracee or Rhonda acting up?

This House could have been a hit, with its sparse instrumentation, and soaring vocals. Its problem is that Miss Ross' vocal on it sounds thin and strained. She is capable of much, much better. I wonder what went wrong with the recording? Why did she allow that vocal to be cut?

[Ollie9]

Eaten Alive has to be the album i would most like to see worked on.
Turning down the volume on the B.G backing vocals would be a great start.
As on the diana 80 remixes, the recordings need to be infused with a little more Diana Ross and less Gibb.

[sup_fan]

One other thing I would fix is the much-derided Workin' Overtime.

The concept - moving into House/Dance/Jack-swing - is a sound idea. Look at what was about then, and the sound of Workin' Overtime was on-trend. I am thinking Janet Jackson, Paula Abdul - hell, even Madonna was into it at the time.

The biggest problem was Workin' Overtime, the lead track. What the hell...? A song about working hard? Nile should have said a firm NO. Imagine WO without the insipid and senseless lyrics, instead it being a song with strong street cred, about - I don't know, maybe the AIDS epidemic, or homelessness, or rising gun or knife crime - something urban and topical. I mean, musically, WO is on trend. It just needed better lyrics - *much* better lyrics [[oh, and to ditch the gimmicky scratching record sound effect).

Some other songs on that album are pretty good. Paradise is a good song. I always wondered to whom the lyric was targetted. Was Tracee or Rhonda acting up?

This House could have been a hit, with its sparse instrumentation, and soaring vocals. Its problem is that Miss Ross' vocal on it sounds thin and strained. She is capable of much, much better. I wonder what went wrong with the recording? Why did she allow that vocal to be cut?

good calls on WO. while this style of music isn't really my personal fav, i agree that having Diana venture into this in 88/89 was the right idea. i think the biggest problem though is that clearly Niles did no homework in preparing the tracks. he should have realized that many of the songs were not in an appropriate key for Diana. so they should have either been rewritten in one that worked for her or dropped and replaced with another song that was.

Also the lead single should have been Bottom Line

[Bluebrock]

good calls on WO. while this style of music isn't really my personal fav, i agree that having Diana venture into this in 88/89 was the right idea. i think the biggest problem though is that clearly Niles did no homework in preparing the tracks. he should have realized that many of the songs were not in an appropriate key for Diana. so they should have either been rewritten in one that worked for her or dropped and replaced with another song that was.

Also the lead single should have been Bottom Line

Nile had lots of personal "issues" around this time and was barely capable of knowing what day it was let alone choose suitable songs for Diana. She hated the way the album turned out almost as much as we did. It was a career low point for both performers and Nile should have been taken off the project to sort himself out.

[Motown Eddie]

On Supremes A Go-Go, I'd have all of the tracks recorded with The Funk Bros. in Detroit, use the same backing tracks that The Isleys & Four Tops used for "This Old Heart Of Mine [[Is Weak For You)" & "Shake Me Wake Me [[When It's Over)" and replace "Hang On Sloopy" with Fontela Bass' "Rescue Me".

[Motown Eddie]

Yes, the two Dusty songs that you mention would have been welcome additions. Downtown didn't hit the US charts until December 1964. Most of the tracks for Liverpool were recorded in September of that year and the album was released in late October.

The album contained only songs by British male groups. The addition of songs that paid tribute to female British singers would have been a nice touch.

I think the concept for the album was to appeal to fans of the male British groups and to take advantage of the British Invasion craze. I wonder how many Beatles tribute albums there were during 1964 and 1965. They seemed to be everywhere. Even the Chipmunks had an album of Beatles songs in 1964.

Thanks for the info Johnjeb-I see why "Downtown" couldn't be part of A Bit Of Liverpool since it hit the US after that album was in the can. And yes, the market was flooded with various tribute albums to either The Beatles or the British Invasion in 1964 & 1965.

[RanRan79]

I would have scrapped everything on Side 1, except for the title track and replaced them with HDH originals. I was not a fan of those MOR tunes by the Supremes and Tops. Yes, I understand why they were done, but as a fan, I'd rather have original Motown tunes than these pop covers, even Yesterday.

I enjoy the MOR stuff because it often lent itself well to showcasing the pure talent of the Supremes. But for the Supremes it seems like there just isn't enough pure Motown. WDOLG lp was released in Aug 1964. The catalog then consists of Liverpool, Sam Cooke, and C&W until almost a whole year has gone by since WDOLG lp before finally getting another Motown album in More Hits. [[With the exception of C&W, the tracks of the specialty albums were cut in LA with a non Motown sound. While the tracks cut for C&W were done at Hitsville, the sound isn't exactly the trademark Motown Sound, which is understandable considering the material and especially the fact that most of the tracks were cut in early 1963 before what is commonly referred to as the sound of the label.)

After More Hits in July, there's a live album and a Christmas album, the latter of which is, again, an LA track album. When the Christmas album is released, the Supremes had seven albums released in a 14 month time span and only two of them [[Where and More) Motown Sound albums. So when the eighth album in 17 months hits the street, named after a major hit single, one would hope to get a blast of real Motown, with it's evolving sound at that point. Instead half the album is anything but.

Putting "Paradise" and those other tunes in a specialty album would've been fine. Just keep the albums with singles top notch Motown. The way the Symphony album is constructed does not appeal to me. The fact that it went top 10 pop and #1 r&b is probably on the strength of the singles and that the nation was officially in Supreme mania.

[RanRan79]

The first album that comes to mind is ROSS [[1978).

If it had been in my hands, I would have dumped all of Side 2. While I like some of the songs on that side, repeating REACH OUT I'LL BE THERE from 1971 when there were so many unreleased songs in the vault makes no sense to me. I would also have dumped SORRY DOESN'T ALWAYS MAKE IT RIGHT and TOGETHER as they had already been released three years previously on a flop single. I would saved WHERE DID WE GO WRONG and TO LOVE AGAIN for a future compilation.

Instead for Side 2, I would have opened with I WANT TO BACK THERE AGAIN. I also would have included SINCE I DON'T HAVE YOU as well as the Holland-Holland productions of FIRE DON'T BURN and WE CAN NEVER LIGHT THAT OLD FLAME AGAIN. While all of those songs did sound slightly dated by 1978, I think a good remix could have done wonders. Since THE WIZ was released around this time, I would have ended the album with the Motown version of HOME.

Reese I was going to do Ross78 but I decided to hold my thoughts until the expanded is released. That way I get a better picture of what I would want to do with it, taking into account the new outtakes. But probably more than any other Diana 70s album, Ross78 is the one most in need of a fix.

[RanRan79]

Remix bad weather.


Do something with Bad Weather. It sounds like Stevie just gave up on it but he was onto something with it.

I don't think the song sounds like Stevie gave up. But the more time passes, the more I'm convinced that the song lacks that certain something that would've made it a success. Perhaps it needed a different mix. I know the version on the 2000 boxset is an extended version, but whether or not it's a different mix from the single, I don't know. I do think it has a somewhat better sound than the single version, but I might just think that because the extended allows for more jammin on the end. Maybe if the whole song was like the ending, with all the background vocals and the whistles and what not...

[RanRan79]

Bad Weather was never going to be a hit, for anybody, mix, remix, new vocals. It only had Stevie's name attached to it.

I disagree strongly with this opinion. It needed something, but on it's own it was still a great song.

[RanRan79]

I definitely agree. Previously I suggested some album fixing for Symphony, New Ways and HDH in those respective threads. Recently I thought about comments regarding Liverpool that were made during similar discussions. It was mentioned that maybe the album should have had a stronger Motown/Funk Bros influence rather than the scaled-down garage-rock versions on that album.

I think what might have improved the album is to include the British bands original material on Side 1 - as recorded for the Liverpool LP. The Motown and Soul influenced tracks [[recorded with The Funk Bros in Detroit) could be used for Side 2.

The Beatles recorded Money, Postman, Hold On Me and non-Motown R&B Isley Bros song Twist & Shout. And of course DC5 did Do You Love Me. The Stones as well as Dusty recorded Can I Get A Witness in 1964. All good songs for a soulful Motown-style Side 2 for Liverpool.

Liverpool Side 1: You Can't Do That, World Without Love, House Of The Rising Sun, Because, Can't Buy Me Love, Hard Day's Night
Liverpool Side 2: You've Really Got A Hold On Me, Do You Love Me, Money, Please Mr Postman, Can I Get A Witness, Twist & Shout

Essentially it was an album that really didn't need to be released at all.

I think the idea of the album was good, but the execution was not. The girls sound great. Some of their best singing IMO are on the Liverpool album. But it really should've been an album where the girls sang British hits with the Funks backing them up. Those Brit acts covered Motown in their own style. The Supremes should've been afforded the opportunity to return the favor, and as a result the album isn't a critical success, which is a shame considering how great their singing is.

[RanRan79]

While I've never been a fan of A Bit Of Liverpool, I think The Supremes might've fared well with versions of Dusty Springfield's "I Only Want To Be With You" or "Wishin' & Hopin'". Also think that Petula Clark's "Downtown" could've worked for them on that album.


Great suggestions!!

[RanRan79]

On Supremes A Go-Go, I'd have all of the tracks recorded with The Funk Bros. in Detroit, use the same backing tracks that The Isleys & Four Tops used for "This Old Heart Of Mine [[Is Weak For You)" & "Shake Me Wake Me [[When It's Over)" and replace "Hang On Sloopy" with Fontela Bass' "Rescue Me".

Excellent ideas! Although I like both tracks as is, I would've definitely preferred them in the original sounds. Love them doing "Rescue Me". And you know who I would want to hear singing it...:cool:

[sup_fan]

I enjoy the MOR stuff because it often lent itself well to showcasing the pure talent of the Supremes. But for the Supremes it seems like there just isn't enough pure Motown. WDOLG lp was released in Aug 1964. The catalog then consists of Liverpool, Sam Cooke, and C&W until almost a whole year has gone by since WDOLG lp before finally getting another Motown album in More Hits. [[With the exception of C&W, the tracks of the specialty albums were cut in LA with a non Motown sound. While the tracks cut for C&W were done at Hitsville, the sound isn't exactly the trademark Motown Sound, which is understandable considering the material and especially the fact that most of the tracks were cut in early 1963 before what is commonly referred to as the sound of the label.)

After More Hits in July, there's a live album and a Christmas album, the latter of which is, again, an LA track album. When the Christmas album is released, the Supremes had seven albums released in a 14 month time span and only two of them [[Where and More) Motown Sound albums. So when the eighth album in 17 months hits the street, named after a major hit single, one would hope to get a blast of real Motown, with it's evolving sound at that point. Instead half the album is anything but.

Putting "Paradise" and those other tunes in a specialty album would've been fine. Just keep the albums with singles top notch Motown. The way the Symphony album is constructed does not appeal to me. The fact that it went top 10 pop and #1 r&b is probably on the strength of the singles and that the nation was officially in Supreme mania.

valid points. i think the chart success of Symphony is also what helped compel Motown to assemble the A Go Go package. true they didn't use Detroit for all of the backing tracks but it definitely seems like they were making a concerted effort to appeal directly to teens

another point though is that the "specialty" albums were not really intended for teens to buy. while i wasn't around in the 60s, i understand that teens then didn't have the discretionary cash that they do today. so they would have been very judicious with what they did buy. basically motown gave them 1 lp per year - Where in late 64, More in mid 65, Symphony in late 65, A go Go in summer 66, HDH in early 67.

Sam Cooke, Country, Merry Christmas, R&H, etc were really geared more to the parents of the teens that bought the hit lps.

[SatansBlues]

I disagree strongly with this opinion. It needed something, but on it's own it was still a great song.
To me it's not even good enough to be an album track or B-side, much less the A-side of a Supreme's release. I'm racking my brain to think of a hit song that Stevie wrote and produced for a female group or artist, and I can't. Yes Stevie is a talented writer, singer, producer and musician but hits on female artists at the time of BW was non existent. And he worked with some great singers, but he was just unsuccessful. Consider who all he had worked with: Martha & The Vandellas, Syreeta, Blinky, and the Supremes, and I'm sure I've missed some. BW was just a clunker and had no chance. It's not catchy, the lyrics aren't clever or memorable, its not a really danceable song, nor is it a song that you can sing along to. But we all like what we like, I just don't hear it in that song and looking at the chart and commercial success of the song, most folks seem to have agreed with my thinking.

[sup_fan]

On Supremes A Go-Go, I'd have all of the tracks recorded with The Funk Bros. in Detroit, use the same backing tracks that The Isleys & Four Tops used for "This Old Heart Of Mine [[Is Weak For You)" & "Shake Me Wake Me [[When It's Over)" and replace "Hang On Sloopy" with Fontela Bass' "Rescue Me".

frankly i think the bigger problem with A Go Go is the ho-hum backing vocals. yes some of the songs could have used more punch with the Detroit musicians. But i don't know if i've ever heard M and F sounding more bored with what they're doing than on these tracks. Money and Sloopy are so uninspired. I don't know if that's the fault of the producers or the girls. But good lord - why didn't they have the girls ad lib and let Flo go to town on the ending of Hang On Sloopy?!?!

[sup_fan]

To me it's not even good enough to be an album track or B-side, much less the A-side of a Supreme's release. I'm racking my brain to think of a hit song that Stevie wrote and produced for a female group or artist, and I can't. Yes Stevie is a talented writer, singer, producer and musician but hits on female artists at the time of BW was non existent. And he worked with some great singers, but he was just unsuccessful. Consider who all he had worked with: Martha & The Vandellas, Syreeta, Blinky, and the Supremes, and I'm sure I've missed some. BW was just a clunker and had no chance. It's not catchy, the lyrics aren't clever or memorable, its not a really danceable song, nor is it a song that you can sing along to. But we all like what we like, I just don't hear it in that song and looking at the chart and commercial success of the song, most folks seem to have agreed with my thinking.

i agree with many of your points here. i think Stevie understands/understood working with a singer and then adding backing vocals. What did he do with MRATV?

for Bad Weather i think the problems consist of:
1) Jean is too free with the melody and riffs too much
2) the melody is more complex than many other songs - lots of notes, lots of jumps. you're going all over the scales on this one which makes it hard to hum along to
3) this is Jean singing with backing vocalists. sure Lynda gets some time to shine at the very end but as a group there should have been much more vocal interplay throughout the song

the third song Stevie did with them was frankly the strongest - I'll Wait a Lifetime. ever now and then it gets leaked onto YouTube. last time it popped up, i used KeepTube to download an audio of it. it's much more interesting than BW or Soft Days

[SatansBlues]

i agree with many of your points here. i think Stevie understands/understood working with a singer and then adding backing vocals. What did he do with MRATV?

for Bad Weather i think the problems consist of:
1) Jean is too free with the melody and riffs too much
2) the melody is more complex than many other songs - lots of notes, lots of jumps. you're going all over the scales on this one which makes it hard to hum along to
3) this is Jean singing with backing vocalists. sure Lynda gets some time to shine at the very end but as a group there should have been much more vocal interplay throughout the song

the third song Stevie did with them was frankly the strongest - I'll Wait a Lifetime. ever now and then it gets leaked onto YouTube. last time it popped up, i used KeepTube to download an audio of it. it's much more interesting than BW or Soft Days

So basically you're agreeing with me about the song. ;)
Stevie worked with M&TV around 69/70, I think there were like 3 or 4 tracks that have been released.

[reese]

So basically you're agreeing with me about the song. ;)
Stevie worked with M&TV around 69/70, I think there were like 3 or 4 tracks that have been released.

Some are on their LOST AND FOUND set, "Let Me Fall in Love with You," and [[I think) "Talking About Love." I think at least one more, "Don't Leave Your Baby," is on their 50TH ANNIVERSARY collection.

[sup_fan]

So basically you're agreeing with me about the song. ;)
Stevie worked with M&TV around 69/70, I think there were like 3 or 4 tracks that have been released.

lolol yes - i'm agreeing with you that the song needed work ;)

[SatansBlues]

Some are on their LOST AND FOUND set, "Let Me Fall in Love with You," and [[I think) "Talking About Love." I think at least one more, "Don't Leave Your Baby," is on their 50TH ANNIVERSARY collection.
Thanks. I couldn't recall the titles off the top of my head.

[Diana Ross Fan Club]

I would have done 'LET THE SUNSHINE IN' more groovy!

Side A:
Aquarius / Let The Sunshine In [[The Flesh Failures)
Everyday People
Hey Western Union Man
No Matter What Sign You Are
I'm Livin' In Shame
Crystal Blue Persuasion

Side B:
Stormy
Never My Love
Traces / Memories
Discover Me [[And You'll Discover Love)
Will This Be The Day?
Where Do I Go / Good Morning Starshine

[TNSUN]

On Diana Ross's 1st album, she should have recorded, along with The Detroit Symphony Orchestra, a new version of "Didn't We".
I enjoy her live performance of this song on the "Farewell" LP. Yet, her supberb vocals for this song requires an orchestral accompaniment!

[RanRan79]

another point though is that the "specialty" albums were not really intended for teens to buy. while i wasn't around in the 60s, i understand that teens then didn't have the discretionary cash that they do today. so they would have been very judicious with what they did buy. basically motown gave them 1 lp per year - Where in late 64, More in mid 65, Symphony in late 65, A go Go in summer 66, HDH in early 67.

Sam Cooke, Country, Merry Christmas, R&H, etc were really geared more to the parents of the teens that bought the hit lps.

Even those specialty albums needed a Motown Sound. Listen to the cuts intended for Mary Wells' MOR album. That's how Liverpool, Sam, and Christmas should've been put together, regardless of who the intended audience was. But even subscribing to your 1 lp a year theory, they dropped the ball with Symphony.

[RanRan79]

To me it's not even good enough to be an album track or B-side, much less the A-side of a Supreme's release. I'm racking my brain to think of a hit song that Stevie wrote and produced for a female group or artist, and I can't. Yes Stevie is a talented writer, singer, producer and musician but hits on female artists at the time of BW was non existent. And he worked with some great singers, but he was just unsuccessful. Consider who all he had worked with: Martha & The Vandellas, Syreeta, Blinky, and the Supremes, and I'm sure I've missed some. BW was just a clunker and had no chance. It's not catchy, the lyrics aren't clever or memorable, its not a really danceable song, nor is it a song that you can sing along to. But we all like what we like, I just don't hear it in that song and looking at the chart and commercial success of the song, most folks seem to have agreed with my thinking.

Well it's all subjective of course. Where you don't hear catchy, I do. And chart action can't really be used to support our opinions about songs, considering how many awesome songs don't become hits and how many songs that suck somehow do. But you've given me an idea for a thread...thanks!

[sup_fan]

Even those specialty albums needed a Motown Sound. Listen to the cuts intended for Mary Wells' MOR album. That's how Liverpool, Sam, and Christmas should've been put together, regardless of who the intended audience was. But even subscribing to your 1 lp a year theory, they dropped the ball with Symphony.

I tend to like the Symphony lp. i do understand that it's heavy on MOR and the sound is LA. HDH was producing and this was some of their first "symphonic" work. Is it their best ever symphonic work - no. Is it better than their traditional hits - no. but within the Supremes catalog i find it interesting because compare this with the tracks from the intended Broadway/Hollywood set. HDH produced those too and the sound, sophistication, production is wonderful. Just as i find it interesting to hear the progression of Diana, Flo and Mary from early standards to later, same goes for HDH. they too were kids and just learning & experimenting.

To your point about Mary Wells, i do really enjoy her standards too. both the earlier ones with the Tops backing her and the later with the Andantes. To me though, they were going more for a small, intimate night-club sound and setting. like the Roostertail in Detroit. with the Supremes and IHAS, they were could for Lincoln Center and the NY Philharmonic. totally different approach and strategy. and also totally different level of money and revenue

[RanRan79]

Rodger and Hart is an album I would've fixed. I believe it's the album I play the least of the Flo years. It's rather on the boring side IMO. But the outtakes are outstanding. I play those a helluva lot more than the actual album. So from the original album I would definitely keep "Tramp", "This Can't Be Love", "Where Or When", "Lover", "My Heart Stood Still" and "Falling In Love With Love". Basically half the album is vaulted.

I would add: "Manhattan", "Blue Room", "There's a Small Hotel", "Bewitched", "Johnny One Note", and "I Could Write A Book".

And don't forget that idiotic cover! I'd change it to an up to date photo of the girls in all their sophisticated sexiness.

16751

[sup_fan]

oh boy Ran - lol. when i first started reading your post, i was rolling up my sleeves and getting ready to start battle. was thinking you were saying you didn't like the R&H lp. lolol but then saw that you prefer the canned tracks to the released.

i do agree with you. the entire set is wonderful but when they trimmed it to 12 songs, they clearly picked ones that highlighted Diana. there are still some wonderful group moments on the lp but the canned tracks really have more. and there's a touch of melancholy here when you compare their singing here vs the There's A Place For Us. while the girls are younger and more inexperiences during the TAPFU set, there's much more 3-part harmony and group balance in the songs. shame that wasn't carried forward to R&H set

But overall, this lp is IMO glorious and shows such talent and sophistication by the group AND Gil's work. this set should have been awarded a Grammy. there are some songs that are traditionally done, some with new interpretations, some done with a "motown-ish" sound, etc. Just a great set

but yes, could still have been better ;)

[Bluebrock]

oh boy Ran - lol. when i first started reading your post, i was rolling up my sleeves and getting ready to start battle. was thinking you were saying you didn't like the R&H lp. lolol but then saw that you prefer the canned tracks to the released.

i do agree with you. the entire set is wonderful but when they trimmed it to 12 songs, they clearly picked ones that highlighted Diana. there are still some wonderful group moments on the lp but the canned tracks really have more. and there's a touch of melancholy here when you compare their singing here vs the There's A Place For Us. while the girls are younger and more inexperiences during the TAPFU set, there's much more 3-part harmony and group balance in the songs. shame that wasn't carried forward to R&H set

But overall, this lp is IMO glorious and shows such talent and sophistication by the group AND Gil's work. this set should have been awarded a Grammy. there are some songs that are traditionally done, some with new interpretations, some done with a "motown-ish" sound, etc. Just a great set

but yes, could still have been better ;)

I love the R&H album, but i do agree with you about the outtakes being some of the best tracks. The expanded edition is outstanding. Incidentally this is one of Diana's personal favorites. She told me that both she and Flo wanted Manhattan to be on the original release, but Berry would not listen. That was one of the few occasions that she spoke openly about Flo, and she did it with great warmth and affection. I shall have to dig my old diaries and journals out for further clarification. I spent many hours writing those journals, and i am so glad i did. Many things i have all but forgotten come to light when i re-read them

[johnjeb]

Rodger and Hart is an album I would've fixed. I believe it's the album I play the least of the Flo years. It's rather on the boring side IMO. But the outtakes are outstanding. I play those a helluva lot more than the actual album. So from the original album I would definitely keep "Tramp", "This Can't Be Love", "Where Or When", "Lover", "My Heart Stood Still" and "Falling In Love With Love". Basically half the album is vaulted.

I would add: "Manhattan", "Blue Room", "There's a Small Hotel", "Bewitched", "Johnny One Note", and "I Could Write A Book".

And don't forget that idiotic cover! I'd change it to an up to date photo of the girls in all their sophisticated sexiness.

RanRan79 your choices for fixing R&H are interesting. I will have to listen to those vaulted songs again with a fresh perspective.

I love the album as released, including the cover. I lived with that album for 20 years before the vaulted tracks were released, so I'm partial to the original album. I haven't listened to the Expanded releases in several years - time to give both of them another listen.

[sup_fan]

I love the R&H album, but i do agree with you about the outtakes being some of the best tracks. The expanded edition is outstanding. Incidentally this is one of Diana's personal favorites. She told me that both she and Flo wanted Manhattan to be on the original release, but Berry would not listen. That was one of the few occasions that she spoke openly about Flo, and she did it with great warmth and affection. I shall have to dig my old diaries and journals out for further clarification. I spent many hours writing those journals, and i am so glad i did. Many things i have all but forgotten come to light when i re-read them

interesting! and there have been similar stories shared by fans that were close friends and associates with others involved in this whole "Supremes" story that have said similar. This unfortunate and untrue rumor of diana scheming to undermine Flo or that she hated her is absolutely untrue. and frankly slander. yes they had conflicts but there were also strong bonds between the girls

as for Manhattan, i've always wondered a bit if both girls recorded full leads and then they were sort of "dueted" similar to how they did on the Merry Xmas EE with Silent Night. some of the points where Flo cuts are a little odd, like in a middle of a phrase. and they don't match up, verse to verse.

[SatansBlues]

Rodger and Hart is an album I would've fixed. I believe it's the album I play the least of the Flo years. It's rather on the boring side IMO. But the outtakes are outstanding. I play those a helluva lot more than the actual album. So from the original album I would definitely keep "Tramp", "This Can't Be Love", "Where Or When", "Lover", "My Heart Stood Still" and "Falling In Love With Love". Basically half the album is vaulted.

I would add: "Manhattan", "Blue Room", "There's a Small Hotel", "Bewitched", "Johnny One Note", and "I Could Write A Book".

And don't forget that idiotic cover! I'd change it to an up to date photo of the girls in all their sophisticated sexiness.

16751

While I tend to hate most of the show tunes and MOR tracks that Motown artists recorded, including the Supremes, the RH album is one of my all time favorite albums of the group. They really shine here and on the outtakes. Back in the early-mid 80's when I first got into the group and Motown I searched for years for a copy of this album and eventually found a mint condition copy of it. I love the front cover of this album and thought that it was beautiful and classy. I actually love all the songs on the original album, but I've always thought that The Lady Is A Tramp sounds rather flat. It could be because I had heard the groups live version of Lady before hearing the studio recorded version of the song. Regardless, it either should have been remixed or re-recorded. The sound throws off the start of the album and none of the other tracks sound that way.

Regarding the unreleased tracks my favorites are Little Girl Blue, You Took Advantage of Me, It Never Entered My Mind, Wait Til You See Him, I Didn't Know What Time it Was, and my favorite recording of all the songs is the alternative version of Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered [[with different background vocals done). Florence shadows Diana's lead vocals thru most of the song and it's almost like a duet and it is near perfection. To me this is the group at its summit. One theory of why the album was trimmed down to just twelve songs could have been Motown planning the group's Greatest Hits release with two records. Just a thought..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VioQQbHHpaw

[RanRan79]

oh boy Ran - lol. when i first started reading your post, i was rolling up my sleeves and getting ready to start battle. was thinking you were saying you didn't like the R&H lp. lolol but then saw that you prefer the canned tracks to the released.

i do agree with you. the entire set is wonderful but when they trimmed it to 12 songs, they clearly picked ones that highlighted Diana. there are still some wonderful group moments on the lp but the canned tracks really have more. and there's a touch of melancholy here when you compare their singing here vs the There's A Place For Us. while the girls are younger and more inexperiences during the TAPFU set, there's much more 3-part harmony and group balance in the songs. shame that wasn't carried forward to R&H set

But overall, this lp is IMO glorious and shows such talent and sophistication by the group AND Gil's work. this set should have been awarded a Grammy. there are some songs that are traditionally done, some with new interpretations, some done with a "motown-ish" sound, etc. Just a great set

but yes, could still have been better ;)

Oh no, I don't think there is any album during the Flo years that I flat out dislike. But I do think as originally released, the R&H album contains cuts that are less exciting than what got left in the can. Perhaps it is as you say that the tracks included were meant to highlight Diana. By this point that would be an increasing priority, so you're probably right.

I agree about the group really maturing during these sessions as opposed to the stuff cut back in 65. I also agree that the harmonies were employed more during earlier sessions more so than RH.

[RanRan79]

interesting! and there have been similar stories shared by fans that were close friends and associates with others involved in this whole "Supremes" story that have said similar. This unfortunate and untrue rumor of diana scheming to undermine Flo or that she hated her is absolutely untrue. and frankly slander. yes they had conflicts but there were also strong bonds between the girls

as for Manhattan, i've always wondered a bit if both girls recorded full leads and then they were sort of "dueted" similar to how they did on the Merry Xmas EE with Silent Night. some of the points where Flo cuts are a little odd, like in a middle of a phrase. and they don't match up, verse to verse.

To your first point, I think Flo summed it up best when she said the Supremes would fight like sisters. Florence was an expert on sisters- having so many- so I would think if she were going to compare their issues, if she thought it was along the lines of sisters, then that's probably how it was. She did say toward the end that the three of them [[not two, she said three) started to hate each other. Now she probably used "hate" in the way most people really mean "dislike", but it's not hard to imagine that at some point in 1967 things were so bad that familial feelings may have begun to ebb. And obviously everyone was still in their feelings in 1968 when Diana was being catty and Flo was threatening to kick Diana's butt at a party and being forced to leave. Time does heal some wounds, so you have Diana visiting Flo in 1971 and Flo calling Diana in 1975. Diana sets up trust funds for Flo's children, sends them Christmas gifts, and even pays for one of them to have surgery. You don't do that for the kids of people you hate. And for all the ones who like to come up in the forum and reduce Diana's singing partners to former co-workers in the way most of us normal people have co-workers, you don't do all of that for the children of former co-workers either. Not unless there is a lot of love and affection involved.

To your second point, I agree about "Manhattan". There is some odd editing in the song. I've often wondered if it was either a Flo lead originally and then the decision was made to have Diana re-record a lead over the same track; both Flo and Diana recorded leads and then it was haphazardly spliced together; or it was a shared lead and edited down to a Diana lead. Either way, the edit suggests there's a reason the song was ultimately shelved, but a legit mix would've made it a highlight of the album, IMO.

[sup_fan]

To your first point, I think Flo summed it up best when she said the Supremes would fight like sisters. Florence was an expert on sisters- having so many- so I would think if she were going to compare their issues, if she thought it was along the lines of sisters, then that's probably how it was. She did say toward the end that the three of them [[not two, she said three) started to hate each other. Now she probably used "hate" in the way most people really mean "dislike", but it's not hard to imagine that at some point in 1967 things were so bad that familial feelings may have begun to ebb. And obviously everyone was still in their feelings in 1968 when Diana was being catty and Flo was threatening to kick Diana's butt at a party and being forced to leave. Time does heal some wounds, so you have Diana visiting Flo in 1971 and Flo calling Diana in 1975. Diana sets up trust funds for Flo's children, sends them Christmas gifts, and even pays for one of them to have surgery. You don't do that for the kids of people you hate. And for all the ones who like to come up in the forum and reduce Diana's singing partners to former co-workers in the way most of us normal people have co-workers, you don't do all of that for the children of former co-workers either. Not unless there is a lot of love and affection involved.

To your second point, I agree about "Manhattan". There is some odd editing in the song. I've often wondered if it was either a Flo lead originally and then the decision was made to have Diana re-record a lead over the same track; both Flo and Diana recorded leads and then it was haphazardly spliced together; or it was a shared lead and edited down to a Diana lead. Either way, the edit suggests there's a reason the song was ultimately shelved, but a legit mix would've made it a highlight of the album, IMO.

all good points Ran. I've always felt that the girls really did truly like one another. but any three people that are in such constant contact with one another will have their moments. they're human after all. and young! so it's normal to have petty fights, tiffs,etc. as thing progressed though and the goals/direction of the group changed, that's when the working relationship really started to deteriorate.

as for manhattan, i wonder if Flo did the lead. then maybe as they were finalizing the album, considered adding Diana since no one really know exactly what flo was going to be doing with the group. and then when they reduced to 1 lp, it was an easy one to cut

now i might be making MUCH MUCH MUCH more of this. maybe reading too much into it. but Flo's lead on Liverpool was cut. And one CW&P she didn't have a featured spot except Makes No Difference. and in the proposed line up for There's A Place, mary's lead was included but People wasn't. And no flo lead on A Go Go.

[RanRan79]

all good points Ran. I've always felt that the girls really did truly like one another. but any three people that are in such constant contact with one another will have their moments. they're human after all. and young! so it's normal to have petty fights, tiffs,etc. as thing progressed though and the goals/direction of the group changed, that's when the working relationship really started to deteriorate.

as for manhattan, i wonder if Flo did the lead. then maybe as they were finalizing the album, considered adding Diana since no one really know exactly what flo was going to be doing with the group. and then when they reduced to 1 lp, it was an easy one to cut

now i might be making MUCH MUCH MUCH more of this. maybe reading too much into it. but Flo's lead on Liverpool was cut. And one CW&P she didn't have a featured spot except Makes No Difference. and in the proposed line up for There's A Place, mary's lead was included but People wasn't. And no flo lead on A Go Go.

Flo's lack of released leads is easy fodder for the conspiracy theorists. For those of us who enjoy her lead singing, it's hard to figure why she wouldn't be utilized more. As I've said time and time again, "Good News" is the highlight of the Sam Cooke album. And had "Oh Holy Night" made it onto the original Christmas lp, I think it too would've been a highlight of that set. I think that Flo, and even Mary, leads come down to after thoughts. The fact is that Diana was the focal point and so most of the attention went to whatever she sang. If Flo and/or Mary get thrown a bone, fine, whatever. If they don't, well, fine, whatever. It's just the way that it was. Diana fans [[ie, Rossers) sit in a great position because they get a ton of Diana no matter what. [[And of course I love that we get a ton of Diana also, being a Diana fan, but not a psychotic Rosser.) But we fans who enjoy the talents of Flo and/or Mary are in a sucky place because we'd like more, but for whatever reasons, Motown decided it wasn't worth it. Sucks, but it is what it is.

I do think it's worth pointing out that for all the talk about what little regard Gordy and company had for the talents of Flo Ballard, "People" was in the act from at least the summer of 1964 thru the fall of 1966. And so far there is no evidence that either Diana or Mary ever replaced Flo on the song. There's no way Gordy would've allowed the song, or Flo's singing of it, to remain in the act that long unless he was convinced it was a crowd pleaser. And you can't please a crowd with a song being sung by someone who caused people to yawn when she sings. In someone else's hands, who knows what may have become of Florence Ballard, or even Mary Wilson. But in Gordy's hands he didn't see much possibilities for them beyond supporting Diana.

[sup_fan]

^great points Ran. yeah i don't think there's any truth to the story of Gordy stripping People from Flo during a rehearsal and handing it to Diana. just another part of the Sup Myths. And i too think you're right about M and F being afterthoughts when it came to the lps tracks. we know the girls were not involved with the development of the albums. heck it might be that the people assembling the songs didn't even bother to check who was lead on which track. as you said, the focus was on D.

[SatansBlues]

^great points Ran. yeah i don't think there's any truth to the story of Gordy stripping People from Flo during a rehearsal and handing it to Diana. just another part of the Sup Myths. And i too think you're right about M and F being afterthoughts when it came to the lps tracks. we know the girls were not involved with the development of the albums. heck it might be that the people assembling the songs didn't even bother to check who was lead on which track. as you said, the focus was on D.
Wasn't the focus always on the lead singers? Levi, Smokey, Martha, Diana, Cal, Wanda, Gladys, Eddie, David, Paul, Jr. Walker, Gladys K...

[SatansBlues]

My bad.....

[TNSUN]

I would reimagine the album concept of "Eaten Alive". Love the instrumental of the title track. Would have totally renamed the song and provided it with new lyrics. The album would also be renamed by a renaming of "Chain Reaction", a great song, to "Love Reaction". Great song video by the way, classic Diana Ross.
By the way, for any naysayers; musically, anything is negotiable.

[daviddh]

Obviously a lot of fixing I would do throughout the catalog, but I'll focus on just one [[for the moment...I reserve the right to return to this thread with additional albums or songs to "fix":cool:): We Remember Sam Cooke.

I would switch the tracks from LA to Detroit, pure Funk Bros. I would've given the lead to Mary on "Only 16" and given Flo the lead on "A Change Gonna Come". I would've had Mary sing her usual lower part and Diana the higher part in the background on "Good News". I would've dumped that boring drawing of the girls on the cover and replaced it with:

16748
agree with all u said.love this photo

[TNSUN]

"You Were The One" should have been released as a single. It is a monster song with hit potential. Even today, a hot remix would sell.

[sup_fan]

i'd do some fixing on Nathan Jones

1. less unison singing - the lyrics on this tune are a little less intuitive than other songs. Jean should start "you packed your bags, as i recall" then the girls join in and harmonize 'and you walked slowly..." then then group continues in unison. same with verse 2, jean first, then harmony then unison

2. more synthesizer during the bridge and especially at ending. the "jet engine" revving effect is great and in the first parts of the song it's used nicely. but they should have built up more of this and really made the ending explode.

3. jean should have been let loose to do more ad libs and high notes at the ending

4. delay the release to summer of 71 so that a second single from NW could be released

[jobucats]

"Everything's Good About You"- Love, love, love this except there is a very obvious mistake in the celeste/bell sounding instrument just as Diana begins the phrase, "You brighten my whole world". This instrument, in different phrases, had been moving up one step, called an interval, however failed to change at this part of the song.

"The Liverpool Album"- sounded like it was recorded in a can...maybe could have benefitted with either being recorded at Motown OR at least using some of the Motown instrumentalists

"I Hear a Symphony"-another one where most of the songs have too much reverb...too echoey sounding to me...harsh quality especially on side one

"Eaten Alive" - Total remix and mastering needed

[JLoveLamar]

Can't I change the career trajectory instead of fixing an album or song? My vote goes to more movies!!!!! 😈

[RanRan79]

agree with all u said.love this photo

Yes, it's one of my favorites. The group took so many fantastic photos throughout 1966 and 1967. Why Motown kept dipping into pre-1966 photos for stuff is a mystery. The group's look evolved quite a few times during the Flo years.

[RanRan79]

"Everything's Good About You"- Love, love, love this except there is a very obvious mistake in the celeste/bell sounding instrument just as Diana begins the phrase, "You brighten my whole world". This instrument, in different phrases, had been moving up one step, called an interval, however failed to change at this part of the song.

"The Liverpool Album"- sounded like it was recorded in a can...maybe could have benefitted with either being recorded at Motown OR at least using some of the Motown instrumentalists

"I Hear a Symphony"-another one where most of the songs have too much reverb...too echoey sounding to me...harsh quality especially on side one

"Eaten Alive" - Total remix and mastering needed

I'm going to listen out for that moment in "Everything's Good". I was actually just listening to it yesterday, but of course I would never notice the kind of thing you point out if someone doesn't point it out to me.

Regarding the Liverpool album, I do think some songs sound "canny". Lol But I always think it all sounds like it was recorded in the Hitsville garage.

The Symphony album, yes, there is a lot of echo in it and side one is where it's most noticeable IMO also.

[sup_fan]

Can't I change the career trajectory instead of fixing an album or song? My vote goes to more movies!!!!! ��

absolutely!! are there some roles you think Diana should have been cast in?

[RanRan79]

absolutely!! are there some roles you think Diana should have been cast in?

It's unfortunate that there wasn't a Supremes movie at the height of their fame. Some kind of silly comedy. Maybe they were a fictional vocal trio by night, but during the day they were crime solvers. Lol Or maybe before a show they witness a crime and the criminals are trying to kill them and high jinks ensue as the girls try to evade the killers and at the last minute the girls stop the killers in time to go on stage for their show. And all of this is happening with Diana playing the know it all whose ideas cause even more trouble; Mary playing the boy crazed girl whose beauty is always causing some kind of mishap involving men; and Florence always with the wisecracks and her clumsiness adds slapstick. I think people would have paid for that.:cool:

[Ollie9]

It's unfortunate that there wasn't a Supremes movie at the height of their fame. Some kind of silly comedy. Maybe they were a fictional vocal trio by night, but during the day they were crime solvers. Lol Or maybe before a show they witness a crime and the criminals are trying to kill them and high jinks ensue as the girls try to evade the killers and at the last minute the girls stop the killers in time to go on stage for their show. And all of this is happening with Diana playing the know it all whose ideas cause even more trouble; Mary playing the boy crazed girl whose beauty is always causing some kind of mishap involving men; and Florence always with the wisecracks and her clumsiness adds slapstick. I think people would have paid for that.:cool:

Sort of in the vein of the Spice Girls movie. Diana as scary, Mary as posh and Flo as sporty.........perhaps.

[BobbyC]

I just realized something. I have never heard a single post-Supremes album by Diana Ross. I'm serious.

[daviddh]

at the top of my list ',
last time i saw him, lp the out takes were better
ross 78 side 2 overhaul.
in the 70s , move bg out of the way

[RanRan79]

Sort of in the vein of the Spice Girls movie. Diana as scary, Mary as posh and Flo as sporty.........perhaps.

Never compare the Supremes to the Spice Girls. Ever.:p

Regarding the SG movie, I wouldn't know. I never saw it.

[Ollie9]

Never compare the Supremes to the Spice Girls. Ever.:p


Why not??. I think the Supremes were every bit as good.

[RanRan79]

Why not??. I think the Supremes were every bit as good.

You are no longer welcome here. Leave calmly and you won't get hurt.

[sup_fan]

It's unfortunate that there wasn't a Supremes movie at the height of their fame. Some kind of silly comedy. Maybe they were a fictional vocal trio by night, but during the day they were crime solvers. Lol Or maybe before a show they witness a crime and the criminals are trying to kill them and high jinks ensue as the girls try to evade the killers and at the last minute the girls stop the killers in time to go on stage for their show. And all of this is happening with Diana playing the know it all whose ideas cause even more trouble; Mary playing the boy crazed girl whose beauty is always causing some kind of mishap involving men; and Florence always with the wisecracks and her clumsiness adds slapstick. I think people would have paid for that.:cool:

they WERE in a movie - Beachball lol

wasn't the actual movie for The Happening a screwball comedy? and with Faye Dunaway? lol not sure i'd typically associate her with screwball comedy. camp comedy - sure! lol

[reese]

they WERE in a movie - Beachball lol

wasn't the actual movie for The Happening a screwball comedy? and with Faye Dunaway? lol not sure i'd typically associate her with screwball comedy. camp comedy - sure! lol

I think THE HAPPENING was some weird comedy starring Anthony Quinn.

I saw it once on a late afternoon movie telecast. I only watched because I wanted to hear the girls sing the title song and that didn't happen until the end. About the only thing I remember is a scene with a group of guys running around saying something like "I know about you. I know about you," which I thought might have been a reference to the b-side but again, it has been so long that I don't know for sure.