Standing At the Crossroads Of Love

[RanRan79]

Any fans of this one? Not a fav of mine but it's alright. I think the guy who writes the Diana Ross Project blogs once suggested that the background singers are unknown. I laughed. This is a Supremes cut, but it definitely sounds like Flo and Mary are joined by at least one other voice for the middle part. Diana perhaps? Anyway, anybody think this would've been a good A side?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXe3TcW_r1U

[Bluebrock]

Any fans of this one? Not a fav of mine but it's alright. I think the guy who writes the Diana Ross Project blogs once suggested that the background singers are unknown. I laughed. This is a Supremes cut, but it definitely sounds like Flo and Mary are joined by at least one other voice for the middle part. Diana perhaps? Anyway, anybody think this would've been a good A side?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXe3TcW_r1U
I never much cared for it until around 10 years when it's infinite charm finally worked it's magic on me. I still don't hear it as a potential single, but it is a thoroughly pleasant album track that sounds quite fresh and innocent today.

[sup_fan]

never liked this one and still don't. i find Diana's delivery on the whiny side. it's just too high for her and that octave jump on the chorus is challenging.

Both this song and Run were cut on May 7. we don't have really any more detailed info than that - was it just the backing track? vocals? don't know. so there could be another singer or two on it. I don't hear the male voices, like on Run. And in the early years Diana did join M and F for the background work too.

Who all is in the background on Run? probably DMF and the was it HDH doing the male vocals on Lovelight and Run?

[SatansBlues]

I've personally always like this song since the first time I heard it on their GHs album. The lyrics, Diana's delivery, the background vocals. Diana really sells the song when she sings, "there's always tears on my pillow, cause I'm always in the middle of, heartache and emotion, heartbreak and devotion. Loving, caring, but its despairing. Trying to be true, though it makes me blue." I think its an early classic by the group and HDH. I've always wondered how or why it was on their greatest hits album. It must have gotten some airplay or made one of the charts.

[marv2]

Any fans of this one? Not a fav of mine but it's alright. I think the guy who writes the Diana Ross Project blogs once suggested that the background singers are unknown. I laughed. This is a Supremes cut, but it definitely sounds like Flo and Mary are joined by at least one other voice for the middle part. Diana perhaps? Anyway, anybody think this would've been a good A side?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXe3TcW_r1U

Fan here mainly because at the time Motown were releasing a series of 45 singles before an album was released. My mother bought the single "When The Lovelight Starts Shining Through His Eyes" and this was the flip side. She'd play both sides so I heard it often around the house back then.

[marv2]

never liked this one and still don't. i find Diana's delivery on the whiny side. it's just too high for her and that octave jump on the chorus is challenging.

Both this song and Run were cut on May 7. we don't have really any more detailed info than that - was it just the backing track? vocals? don't know. so there could be another singer or two on it. I don't hear the male voices, like on Run. And in the early years Diana did join M and F for the background work too.

Who all is in the background on Run? probably DMF and the was it HDH doing the male vocals on Lovelight and Run?

Along with the Four Tops.

[marv2]

I've personally always like this song since the first time I heard it on their GHs album. The lyrics, Diana's delivery, the background vocals. Diana really sells the song when she sings, "there's always tears on my pillow, cause I'm always in the middle of, heartache and emotion, heartbreak and devotion. Loving, caring, but its despairing. Trying to be true, though it makes me blue." I think its an early classic by the group and HDH. I've always wondered how or why it was on their greatest hits album. It must have gotten some airplay or made one of the charts.

It got radio airplay in Detroit and Toledo in 1963-64.

[lucky2012]

Have to agree with sup_fan. I never liked Standing, for the same reason I don't care for Run. Diana's vocals too high. Interesting that both were cut the same day. When I want to listen to the album, I substitute Always In My Heart.

I think Standing got included on Greatest Hits when Motown decided to leave Reflections off. There are so many other great tracks Motown could have included instead. [[I guess someone liked it enough.)

[johnjeb]

I've always liked "Standing At The Crossroads Of Love". I don't think it would have been a hit single but it's certainly an enjoyable song. I love the background vocals very much. Diana's lead is a bit shrill in parts but almost adds to the mood of the song. [[Ironically, the only song on WDOLG that I never liked is "Ask Any Girl"!)

I had the mono album - actually all my Supremes albums were mono up through Sing HDH. When Greatest Hits was released in 1967 I heard the stereo versions on all the songs for the first time and noticed the differences right away. At first I thought it was just stereo separation then I noticed a couple were alternate vocals. On the stereo version of "Standing" Diana misses some lyrics at 2:03-2:06 approximately.

I always wondered why some songs were included on GH, such as B-Side "Standing", and some missing, such as A-Side "Breathtaking Guy" which was a Smokey Robinson written and produced single. I always thought it should have been included, especially since it was on the WDOLG album and a great song.

GH and Sing HDH were released when Motown and HDH were having their differences. We have since learned that these albums were possibly compiled with all HDH songs to soothe ruffled feathers, more or less. All the songs on GH were on singles, either A-sides or B-sides - a couple played on radio in regular rotation when released. All the songs on both albums are HDH, except "Mother You" on HDH is HDH & R Dean Taylor, "The Happening" on GH is HDH & DeVol, and "Everything Is Good About You" on GH is Eddie Holland & James Dean.

[PeaceNHarmony]

I've personally always like this song since the first time I heard it on their GHs album. The lyrics, Diana's delivery, the background vocals. Diana really sells the song when she sings, "there's always tears on my pillow, cause I'm always in the middle of, heartache and emotion, heartbreak and devotion. Loving, caring, but its despairing. Trying to be true, though it makes me blue." I think its an early classic by the group and HDH. I've always wondered how or why it was on their greatest hits album. It must have gotten some airplay or made one of the charts.I've always loved the track as well. A 'teen-dream' kinda lyric and sound and Diana's vocal really brings it home.

[midnightman]

I don't like it, I love it.

The backgrounds are great, Diana is stunning, the music... just heaven. One of their masterpieces as far as I'm concerned.

DMF forever.

[sup_fan]

I've always liked "Standing At The Crossroads Of Love". I don't think it would have been a hit single but it's certainly an enjoyable song. I love the background vocals very much. Diana's lead is a bit shrill in parts but almost adds to the mood of the song. [[Ironically, the only song on WDOLG that I never liked is "Ask Any Girl"!)

I had the mono album - actually all my Supremes albums were mono up through Sing HDH. When Greatest Hits was released in 1967 I heard the stereo versions on all the songs for the first time and noticed the differences right away. At first I thought it was just stereo separation then I noticed a couple were alternate vocals. On the stereo version of "Standing" Diana misses some lyrics at 2:03-2:06 approximately.

I always wondered why some songs were included on GH, such as B-Side "Standing", and some missing, such as A-Side "Breathtaking Guy" which was a Smokey Robinson written and produced single. I always thought it should have been included, especially since it was on the WDOLG album and a great song.

GH and Sing HDH were released when Motown and HDH were having their differences. We have since learned that these albums were possibly compiled with all HDH songs to soothe ruffled feathers, more or less. All the songs on GH were on singles, either A-sides or B-sides - a couple played on radio in regular rotation when released. All the songs on both albums are HDH, except "Mother You" on HDH is HDH & R Dean Taylor, "The Happening" on GH is HDH & DeVol, and "Everything Is Good About You" on GH is Eddie Holland & James Dean.

my guess is that the Greatest Hits lp was compiled to be ONLY songs by HDH. and let's face it, Breathtaking is a cute little song but did nothing for the group's sales figures. all of the hits were HDH tracks

at the time of the lp's release, there were 14 singles to really consider [[the 10 number ones, Nothing, My World, Itching and at least initially Reflections). that dictated that they should do a double lp set. And let's face it, the public would most certainly have been willing to pay the expense for a 2-lp set called DRATS GH. So now they had to fill in with other HDH songs so that they were the sole producers.

so they added Lovelight and Run [[total now at 16) and needed a few more. they pretty much took one from each lp except A Go Go which HDH didn't produce much of the tracks and the others were all covers. So that would also introduce another writer into the royalty structure

Crossroads and Ask any girl - where
whisper - more hits
everything is good - symphony
there's no stopping - sing hdh

my biggest surprise is that they only put 5 tracks on each side. could have added 4 more songs if they wanted to

[reese]

my biggest surprise is that they only put 5 tracks on each side. could have added 4 more songs if they wanted to

I suspect if they added four more songs it would have really appeared that they were padding the set. As it was, the group really didn't have enough hits at that time to fill a double hits collection.

[SatansBlues]

my guess is that the Greatest Hits lp was compiled to be ONLY songs by HDH. and let's face it, Breathtaking is a cute little song but did nothing for the group's sales figures. all of the hits were HDH tracks

at the time of the lp's release, there were 14 singles to really consider [[the 10 number ones, Nothing, My World, Itching and at least initially Reflections). that dictated that they should do a double lp set. And let's face it, the public would most certainly have been willing to pay the expense for a 2-lp set called DRATS GH. So now they had to fill in with other HDH songs so that they were the sole producers.

so they added Lovelight and Run [[total now at 16) and needed a few more. they pretty much took one from each lp except A Go Go which HDH didn't produce much of the tracks and the others were all covers. So that would also introduce another writer into the royalty structure

Crossroads and Ask any girl - where
whisper - more hits
everything is good - symphony
there's no stopping - sing hdh

my biggest surprise is that they only put 5 tracks on each side. could have added 4 more songs if they wanted to
I've always wondered just how much HDH made from this GH album. Didn't it sell like over 3 million copies?

[sup_fan]

I've always wondered just how much HDH made from this GH album. Didn't it sell like over 3 million copies?

according to Wikipedia it sold well over 6m. plus there was a single disc version released internationally

[sup_fan]

I suspect if they added four more songs it would have really appeared that they were padding the set. As it was, the group really didn't have enough hits at that time to fill a double hits collection.

seriously? while i get it that they didn't have 20 or 24 top hits so that the album was solely made up of #1, it had 10 number one hits on it plus 4 more top 40 hits. in the end it was a #1 release and stayed on the billboard charts for an eternity. sold millions.

now here's a good question though - which other tracks should they have used? are the 5 non A sides the best ones they could have picked?

I think it should have been:

Ask any girl
There's no stopping
Going down for third time
he's all i got
mother dear

then if they wanted an additional four:
I'm So glad heartaches don't last
I'm giving you your freedom
all i know about you
everything is good about you

[SatansBlues]

Well for starters Motown should have flipped the release of the GHs album [[August '67) and the Reflections album [[March '68). Then the singles Reflections, In and Out of Love and Forever Came Today could have been added to the GHs album [[all HDH songs). Then you would have needed to just come up with one more song so that there would have been 6 songs on each side.

[sup_fan]

some of the Reflections tracks weren't completed by Aug 67. Sure the title track was but Forever wasn't. nor were Ode to Billie, Up Up Away, I'm gonna make it.

I don't know that there was really a whole lot of recent DMF tracks waiting to be put into an album just then. A lot of the recording in the spring was around the Disney material or the Broadway/Hollywood set.

seems like the girls weren't in the studio as much, outside of these specialty albums. I don't know if that due to the problems within the group around Florence or perhaps we just don't have all of the details of recording sessions. the Sing HDH EE booklet goes through May 67 and really only lists what i've outlined here. There were leftover songs and covers from A Go Go i guess they could have used.

[gman]

love Crossroads....it ain't ""bowl you over with the BIG beat" like Lovelight, but it is one of the classic pre'64 Motown shuffle/ cha cha records. that 2 LP set was the first LP I got with my own money....I was 8 yrs.old...Jan '68...someone gave me a used jukebox Happening 45 that I loved both sides of , and I only knew Baby Love and Stop!...a new record store opened in the small strip mall down the block, and opening day after school we stopped and I pounced on GH...found out months later it was the 1st LP the store sold, and that was MY $5 bill taped to the wall!

[lucky2012]

love Crossroads....it ain't ""bowl you over with the BIG beat" like Lovelight, but it is one of the classic pre'64 Motown shuffle/ cha cha records. that 2 LP set was the first LP I got with my own money....I was 8 yrs.old...Jan '68...someone gave me a used jukebox Happening 45 that I loved both sides of , and I only knew Baby Love and Stop!...a new record store opened in the small strip mall down the block, and opening day after school we stopped and I pounced on GH...found out months later it was the 1st LP the store sold, and that was MY $5 bill taped to the wall!
Great story!

[daviddh]

I always liked this song and thought it was a highlight from the WDOLG lp.
On the greatest hits album....I thought it was odd Going Down For the Third Time was left off.
He's all I got was a fav as well.
In regards.to Reflections. It was going to be on the Hits album but was replaced with Crossroads. The Hits lp and Reflections both were going to be the Supremes swan song. Ross stated she wasn't ready.....and the rest is history

[floyjoy678]

I definitely hear Flo back there but it actually sounds like there is a guy singing in the background too.

[drlorne]

When it first started leaking out that the Andantes were on some of the Supremes records, the one that I remember an example that one of the Andantes cited was Standing..crossroads, at the mid break where they go up and down the scale and then harmonize. Even as a kid I thought that was a pretty complicated vocal exercise, and wasn't surprised as an adult to hear the Andantes were substituted in. I still love that part of the song.

[captainjames]

Are you kidding......................PURE MOTOWN

[floyjoy678]

Hmm maybe they're singing with Mary and Flo. I hear Mary pretty well on that "aaaahh"s part.

[mowest]

The male voices in the background belong to the Love-Tones, according to the review in “Motown Junkies.” [[BTW, will we ever hear from the “Nixon Administration” again?)

[marv2]

Hmm maybe they're singing with Mary and Flo. I hear Mary pretty well on that "aaaahh"s part.

The "Ooo Ooo, Ooo's" are definitely Florence.

[marv2]

I always found the song's ending very dramatic.

[Motown Eddie]

Any fans of this one? Not a fav of mine but it's alright. I think the guy who writes the Diana Ross Project blogs once suggested that the background singers are unknown. I laughed. This is a Supremes cut, but it definitely sounds like Flo and Mary are joined by at least one other voice for the middle part. Diana perhaps? Anyway, anybody think this would've been a good A side?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXe3TcW_r1U

I've never been a big fan of "Standing At The Crossroads Of Love" and I believe that Motown made the right call on making it the B-side of "When The Lovelight Starts Shining Through His Eyes".

[Motown Eddie]

The male voices in the background belong to the Love-Tones, according to the review in “Motown Junkies.” [[BTW, will we ever hear from the “Nixon Administration” again?)

That's a good question, Mowest. I check the Motown Junkies site regularly looking for a new post. Hope everything's all right.

[midnightman]

When it first started leaking out that the Andantes were on some of the Supremes records, the one that I remember an example that one of the Andantes cited was Standing..crossroads, at the mid break where they go up and down the scale and then harmonize. Even as a kid I thought that was a pretty complicated vocal exercise, and wasn't surprised as an adult to hear the Andantes were substituted in. I still love that part of the song.

Those weren't the Andantes, I love them but they're claiming too many songs... LOL

[midnightman]

I wonder if they were going for a Wall of Sound approach with some Motown groups and solo acts... seems like even in some group efforts, other singers would join in with them... [[which again reminds people that when Motown artists said they were a "family", they literally meant it!).

[RanRan79]

never liked this one and still don't. i find Diana's delivery on the whiny side. it's just too high for her and that octave jump on the chorus is challenging.

I don't know that I would say the song is too high for her, but the reason why I hated the song for many years is because she sounded way too piercing for my taste. It's only in recent years that I've come to see some sort of charm in the entire production.

[mowest]

That's a good question, Mowest. I check the Motown Junkies site regularly looking for a new post. Hope everything's all right.

Me too, Motown Eddie. I continue to have the website in my bookmarks for easy access, just in case.

[RanRan79]

seriously? while i get it that they didn't have 20 or 24 top hits so that the album was solely made up of #1, it had 10 number one hits on it plus 4 more top 40 hits. in the end it was a #1 release and stayed on the billboard charts for an eternity. sold millions.

now here's a good question though - which other tracks should they have used? are the 5 non A sides the best ones they could have picked?

I think it should have been:

Ask any girl
There's no stopping
Going down for third time
he's all i got
mother dear

then if they wanted an additional four:
I'm So glad heartaches don't last
I'm giving you your freedom
all i know about you
everything is good about you

I would've gone for B sides as extras first and then anything left over would have been previously unreleased cuts.

[marv2]

When it first started leaking out that the Andantes were on some of the Supremes records, the one that I remember an example that one of the Andantes cited was Standing..crossroads, at the mid break where they go up and down the scale and then harmonize. Even as a kid I thought that was a pretty complicated vocal exercise, and wasn't surprised as an adult to hear the Andantes were substituted in. I still love that part of the song.

I'm sorry but the Andantes are not on this record.

[RanRan79]

some of the Reflections tracks weren't completed by Aug 67. Sure the title track was but Forever wasn't. nor were Ode to Billie, Up Up Away, I'm gonna make it.

I don't know that there was really a whole lot of recent DMF tracks waiting to be put into an album just then. A lot of the recording in the spring was around the Disney material or the Broadway/Hollywood set.

seems like the girls weren't in the studio as much, outside of these specialty albums. I don't know if that due to the problems within the group around Florence or perhaps we just don't have all of the details of recording sessions. the Sing HDH EE booklet goes through May 67 and really only lists what i've outlined here. There were leftover songs and covers from A Go Go i guess they could have used.

I kind of like the idea of switching the releases. The only thing is that if GH was released in 1968 Flo would not have been on the cover, Cindy would've. No disrespect to Cindy but I love the fact that a picture of the original trio made the cover, even with the nonsense of having the name Diana Ross and the Supremes on an album of songs that weren't released under that name.

If the decision had been made to release a Reflections album in Aug or even Sept 1967, HDH could've gotten DRATS in the studio to complete tracks in time if that's what they wanted to do, so it really wouldn't have been a problem. What I have noticed is that the original trio recorded quite often from 1963-1966. When 1967 rolls around things slack up a bit. I'm sure some of that was the internal issues and some of it was HDH's issues with Gordy. But even as 1968 and 69 arrived, DRATS never kept up the recording schedule that FDM had.

But Reflections could've definitely been padded out by HDH tunes or other producers had the album been added to the schedule in 1967.

[RanRan79]

When it first started leaking out that the Andantes were on some of the Supremes records, the one that I remember an example that one of the Andantes cited was Standing..crossroads, at the mid break where they go up and down the scale and then harmonize. Even as a kid I thought that was a pretty complicated vocal exercise, and wasn't surprised as an adult to hear the Andantes were substituted in. I still love that part of the song.

I think it might be the Andantes, one of the Hollands and Florence on that part. There was a thread some time back regarding what songs might exist of just Mary and the Andantes or Flo and the Andantes. I'm starting to suspect that Mary may not be on this one. If she is there, I can't make her out. The voice singing along with Florence for the majority of the background doesn't sound like Mary to me. I wonder if it's Flo and, as Floyjoy suggests, a male singing together and the Andantes were dubbed in for that break in the middle so that it included everybody in order to achieve the sound the producers were going for? Just a thought.

[RanRan79]

Hmm maybe they're singing with Mary and Flo. I hear Mary pretty well on that "aaaahh"s part.

I just don't hear Mary at all. She could be there, but I'm having a hard time making her out.

[RanRan79]

The "Ooo Ooo, Ooo's" are definitely Florence.

Oh yeah, that's definitely Flo.

[RanRan79]

Those weren't the Andantes, I love them but they're claiming too many songs... LOL

I think it's very possible it's the Andantes on the break, but otherwise I agree. I've been saying that from the beginning. If the Andantes are on every song they're credited with, either credit from themselves or from random know it all fans, when the hell did they have time to eat, sleep and shit? They had to have been the hungriest, sleepiest, constipated background singers who ever lived. Give me a break.

[SatansBlues]

I kind of like the idea of switching the releases. The only thing is that if GH was released in 1968 Flo would not have been on the cover, Cindy would've. No disrespect to Cindy but I love the fact that a picture of the original trio made the cover, even with the nonsense of having the name Diana Ross and the Supremes on an album of songs that weren't released under that name.

If the decision had been made to release a Reflections album in Aug or even Sept 1967, HDH could've gotten DRATS in the studio to complete tracks in time if that's what they wanted to do, so it really wouldn't have been a problem. What I have noticed is that the original trio recorded quite often from 1963-1966. When 1967 rolls around things slack up a bit. I'm sure some of that was the internal issues and some of it was HDH's issues with Gordy. But even as 1968 and 69 arrived, DRATS never kept up the recording schedule that FDM had.

But Reflections could've definitely been padded out by HDH tunes or other producers had the album been added to the schedule in 1967.

The Reflections album could have simply added The Happening and All I Know About You, those two songs never made it onto an album at the time, and the Happening only made it onto the GHs album. And I believe the group was still recording songs for their Sings Rogers & Hart album at the start of the year, and songs for the shelved Disney album also I believe. Still in 1968 they had 5 albums released, Reflections, Talk of The Town, Love Child, Join The Temps and TCB. That's a lot, if not too much, for any artist.

And while I like the painting of the original 3 on the cover of the GHs album, none of the other GHs album from the Motown artists had any type of picture or painting on them.

*On Wikepedia the Love-Tones are listed as adding additional voices on the track. They seem to have gotten their information from the Expanded Edition of WDOLG!

[midnightman]

I think it's very possible it's the Andantes on the break, but otherwise I agree. I've been saying that from the beginning. If the Andantes are on every song they're credited with, either credit from themselves or from random know it all fans, when the hell did they have time to eat, sleep and shit? They had to have been the hungriest, sleepiest, constipated background singers who ever lived. Give me a break.

Exactly. It really bugs me that they seem to over-exaggerate how many songs they did, especially with the Supremes. Just freaking BUGS me! Like I can take them singing on songs if the producers wanted a full throttle sound [[like in MR&TV's "What Am I Gonna Do Without Your Love", I can believe they would sing somewhere on there but they always go to the Supremes always...with no proof).

It'll be interesting if the Holland brothers write who sung background on every song they wrote for every artist so we can finally settle this.

[RanRan79]

The Reflections album could have simply added The Happening and All I Know About You, those two songs never made it onto an album at the time, and the Happening only made it onto the GHs album. And I believe the group was still recording songs for their Sings Rogers & Hart album at the start of the year, and songs for the shelved Disney album also I believe. Still in 1968 they had 5 albums released, Reflections, Talk of The Town, Love Child, Join The Temps and TCB. That's a lot, if not too much, for any artist.

And while I like the painting of the original 3 on the cover of the GHs album, none of the other GHs album from the Motown artists had any type of picture or painting on them.

*On Wikepedia the Love-Tones are listed as adding additional voices on the track. They seem to have gotten their information from the Expanded Edition of WDOLG!

Yeah the Supremes were the only ones to be on the cover of their GH set, but they are the Supremes after all, so it was only fitting.:cool:

I'll have to re-read my WDOLG expanded booklet. I didn't recall the Love Tones mention. What an interesting bit of trivia!

[danman869]

I'm really curious because Carl Jones [[one of the three Love-Tones who sang on the first couple of Mary Wells hits) was killed in a barroom fight in early 1963. The Love-Tones still remained active recording backgrounds at Motown and touring behind Mary Wells, but...clearly with fill-ins [[Sonny Sanders on tours, Mickey Stevenson in the studio, etc.), so... Who were the specific members of The Love-Tones supporting The Supremes by later 1963/early 1964, I wonder?

[daviddh]

It made sense to me to release Reflections lp first in 1967 and then a hits album....but the group almost ended as Motown didn't feel the Supremes could survive the loss of Ballard and HDH.
I think the Happening would have fit well into this album

[RanRan79]

I'm really curious because Carl Jones [[one of the three Love-Tones who sang on the first couple of Mary Wells hits) was killed in a barroom fight in early 1963. The Love-Tones still remained active recording backgrounds at Motown and touring behind Mary Wells, but...clearly with fill-ins [[Sonny Sanders on tours, Mickey Stevenson in the studio, etc.), so... Who were the specific members of The Love-Tones supporting The Supremes by later 1963/early 1964, I wonder?

If you can pin down who all were operating as Love Tones in May 1963, that's probably the answer.

[RanRan79]

It made sense to me to release Reflections lp first in 1967 and then a hits album....but the group almost ended as Motown didn't feel the Supremes could survive the loss of Ballard and HDH.
I think the Happening would have fit well into this album

I don't buy the Ross going solo after "Reflections" story. If that was the case, why go through the hassle of firing Florence, hiring Cindy, rehiring Flo, buying Cindy out of her contract, waiting Florence out, firing Flo again...if it was all so that "Reflections" could hit the street as the swan song and Diana go on her merry way without the Supremes anyway?

[daviddh]

My memories are.
The Mama's and Papas fired Michele Phillips and the fans were angry.the tour was a mess and maybe cancelled mid way...can't remember all details but by the time they got back home Michelle was back in. See their autobiography.
BG was aware and afraid the Supremes would receive the same backlash as the mamas and papas.
When did HDH leave officially??? Not sure now.my senior brain can't keep up but Shelly Berger mrg of the Supremes discussed it during an interview on tv special Motown 40.
The company decided the Supremes would not survive the loss of HDH and Ballard. Flo would be brought back for the final tour and the then Hits lp would be the group's last.
Also Cindy B was still under contract with the former group n record company and Motown was still working out details. Cindy could tour but not record with the group. same thing happened in ,73 when Scherrie Payne joined the group.it took a year to clear scherrie from the former record company.
Not clear why Ballard didn't return.but Ross claimed she wasn't ready.
The group continued with birdsong and Reflections was dropped from the Hits lp and In and Out Of Love was dusted off.... And released with the Andantees added and released as a single.
I am surprised the Happening wasn't added to the lp but by the time the album was released it was almost a year old.
Imo.i think that's why the Reflections album was so uneven.side 1 was good but side 2 a bit weak. Hopefully...if and when we get the expanded edition I'm sure Kevin Reeves will do some fine mixs.he made me like What the world Needs Now which I always thought sounded like a demo .

[TheMotownManiac]

I don’t care for the track as it’s too high. However, I love Ross’ emoting and the BGs - which I never even thought about but it doesn’t sound like Mary and Flo to me but I don’t care, either. Just played it again, I don’t hear either of them at all.

[daviddh]

Maniac. r u referring to In and Out of love???.
The Andantees were added in

[sup_fan]

I don't buy the Ross going solo after "Reflections" story. If that was the case, why go through the hassle of firing Florence, hiring Cindy, rehiring Flo, buying Cindy out of her contract, waiting Florence out, firing Flo again...if it was all so that "Reflections" could hit the street as the swan song and Diana go on her merry way without the Supremes anyway?

i believe the DR solo idea was about a year earlier, fall of 66. As things began to disintegrate within the group, I believe there was some initial idea of Diana leaving. she was carrier the majority of the burden of the group on her shoulders and not earning any more money for it. She was in the studios much more than M or F, the spokesperson, etc. It was clear that the group wasn't going to sustain much longer with all of the internal problems so a natural idea would be to think about her going solo. But it was Berry who wasn't 100% sure about things. thought it was premature.

So the idea then evolved to having her name brought out in front. And during the DRATS era, her work load increased even more as she now really was a solo singer with background vocal support. But using the established brand platform of "The Supremes" to launch herself into a solo career.

[floyjoy678]

Diana is quoted somewhere as to saying her and Mary weren't sure how the fans would receive Cindy so they were coming up with alternative plans, one being that the group would break up and Diana would go solo.

[SatansBlues]

i believe the DR solo idea was about a year earlier, fall of 66. As things began to disintegrate within the group, I believe there was some initial idea of Diana leaving. she was carrier the majority of the burden of the group on her shoulders and not earning any more money for it. She was in the studios much more than M or F, the spokesperson, etc. It was clear that the group wasn't going to sustain much longer with all of the internal problems so a natural idea would be to think about her going solo. But it was Berry who wasn't 100% sure about things. thought it was premature.

So the idea then evolved to having her name brought out in front. And during the DRATS era, her work load increased even more as she now really was a solo singer with background vocal support. But using the established brand platform of "The Supremes" to launch herself into a solo career.

But wasn't that true of all the lead singer? Perhaps the Supremes were busier, but look at the Miracles. Smokey was just as busy writing, producing and singing, not to mention other business duties at Motown.

[sup_fan]

but smokey was then also earning additional income. He was a VP [[salary) and writer/producer which also provided him with additional royalties. then he would have also received royalties as a member of the Miracles.

And i don't have any idea if the royalty structure and appearance fees for the miracles were split evenly among members or not.

Also no idea what the royalty fees were for MRATV. I'm pretty sure the 5 temps and the 4 tops all were split evenly. no additional money for the leads

[reese]

but smokey was then also earning additional income. He was a VP [[salary) and writer/producer which also provided him with additional royalties. then he would have also received royalties as a member of the Miracles.

And i don't have any idea if the royalty structure and appearance fees for the miracles were split evenly among members or not.

Also no idea what the royalty fees were for MRATV. I'm pretty sure the 5 temps and the 4 tops all were split evenly. no additional money for the leads

Not sure what the royalty situation was with the Miracles but I wouldn't be surprised if it was split evenly. They seemed to do things that way. When Pete was in the Army, I believe they kept his portion of his earnings for him until his return. Also, Smokey encouraged the other members to write and if they attended a writing session, he would give them credit whether he used their ideas or not.

[sup_fan]

yeah i'd assume that too with the miracles. pretty much all of the groups except perhaps MRATV

and i don't know if Marvin and his duet partners [[at least Kim and Tammi) split 50/50 or not

[reese]

yeah i'd assume that too with the miracles. pretty much all of the groups except perhaps MRATV

and i don't know if Marvin and his duet partners [[at least Kim and Tammi) split 50/50 or not

In her book, I think Martha stated that she and the Vandellas split evenly as well. I'm not sure if that applied to later Vandellas Lois and Sandra.