New Book - "Come And Get These Memories"

[Philles/Motown Gary]

On October 3, 2019, "Come And Get These Memories: The Genius Of Holland-Dozier-Holland", co-authored by Eddie Holland and Brian Holland with Dave Thompson, will be available from Amazon [[U.S.). The current price is quoted as $28.99. [[Hardcover)

Come and Get These Memories: The Story of Holland-Dozier-Holland https://www.amazon.com/dp/1785588672/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_C2dIDbY395ST8

The book's description is as follows:

Brian Holland, Edward Holland, and Lamont Dozier, known as Holland-Dozier-Holland or H-D-H, were the greatest songwriting team in American pop music history. Seventy of the songs they wrote reached the Billboard Top 40, with 15 of these reaching No. 1 on the Billboard Hot 100 pop chart. No other songwriting team or individual has come close to equaling, let alone surpassing, this record. They’ve been inducted into both the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and the Songwriters Hall of Fame. As tunesmiths for the legendary Motown Record Corporation, and for their own corporations, Invictus Records and Hot Wax Records, they wrote and produced hits for Diana Ross and the Supremes, including “Baby Love,” “Stop! In the Name of Love,” “Where Did Our Love Go,” “You Keep Me Hangin’ On,” “You Can’t Hurry Love,” “I Hear a Symphony,” “Come See About Me,” “Back in My Arms Again” and “Reflections.” Now the legendary composers are ready to reveal the inspirations and stories behind their chart-topping hits, providing millions of fans with the first complete history of their songwriting process, and detail the real-life experiences that led them to write each of their most famous tunes. They will also reveal their creative and intimate relationships with Motown’s biggest stars.

[Motown Eddie]

I'm getting this book when it comes out! Come And Get These Memories should be a great read with a lot of inside information on both Motown & Invictus/Hot Wax.

[arr&bee]

I'll check it out.

[luckyluckyme]

THe Holland Brothers' book is referenced here:

https://classic.motown.com/story/story-behind-the-image-15/

[Philles/Motown Gary]

THe Holland Brothers' book is referenced here:

https://classic.motown.com/story/story-behind-the-image-15/
Hey, thanks, Lucky! You've whet my whistle!
Can't wait for the Hollands' book as well as Lamont's!

[Levi Stubbs Tears]

Sounds great. Will be getting it as soon as i can.

[jobeterob]

This sounds worth buying

[PeaceNHarmony]

Sounds like a great find, PMGary; thanks! I hope we generate lots of positive conversations about this book -

[Philles/Motown Gary]

Sounds great. Will be getting it as soon as i can.
Won't be long, Levi's Tears! It's being released this coming Thursday!

[Philles/Motown Gary]

This sounds worth buying
Yes, indeed, Rob! Looking forward to Lamont's book, too.

[Philles/Motown Gary]

Sounds like a great find, PMGary; thanks! I hope we generate lots of positive conversations about this book -

You're welcome, Peace. Here's hoping that between the two books by the Hollands and Lamont, there will be lots of conversations -- yeah, hopefully positive!

[Philles/Motown Gary]

Just got an email from Amazon. My copy of Brian & Eddie Holland's book has shipped and will arrive on Thursday. Can't wait!

[TomatoTom123]

Come And Get These Memories is a great name for a book. :D

[Philles/Motown Gary]

Come And Get These Memories is a great name for a book. :D

Yes, it is, Tom. Indubitably!

[motown01]

Looks like the eBook version doesn't come out until the 17th.

[Motown Eddie]

I have my copy of Come And Get These Memories and I can't wait to dig into it.

[Philles/Motown Gary]

I have my copy of Come And Get These Memories and I can't wait to dig into it.

Got my copy yesterday, too, Eddie. No time to read it yet, though, as I'm too busy preparing the next Phil Spector thread. I did notice, however, that there aren't many photos. When I opened it to the center of the book -- expecting to see countless photos of The Supremes, Four Tops, Martha & The Vandellas, The Temptations, Jr. Walker, The Elgins, Shorty Long, and all of the artists who H-D-H produced, there were none. The few photos that are scattered throughout are mostly Holland family photos with only two Motown-artist photos -- a beautiful one of Diana and a horrible shot of Mary. Kinda disappointing. But keeping the faith that it'll be an exciting read!

[benross]

Probably it would also work as a song title, but don't tell anyone that, as I may want to use it next time I write a song and may not be able to if anyone else already used it.

[Philles/Motown Gary]

Probably it would also work as a song title, but don't tell anyone that, as I may want to use it next time I write a song and may not be able to if anyone else already used it.

Ha! I won't tell Martha & The Vandellas if you don't! LOL!!!

[snakepit]

Aahh

recollections of me and Tony serenading Pat & Sue with "Come and get these memories" in Piccadilly Bus Station, Manchester... prior to catching the allnight bus, prior to a Bank Holiday trip to Blackpool in the morning.....circa 1970. [[ you had to be there...and British I suppose).

[theboyfromxtown]

Got my copy yesterday, too, Eddie. No time to read it yet, though, as I'm too busy preparing the next Phil Spector thread. I did notice, however, that there aren't many photos. When I opened it to the center of the book -- expecting to see countless photos of The Supremes, Four Tops, Martha & The Vandellas, The Temptations, Jr. Walker, The Elgins, Shorty Long, and all of the artists who H-D-H produced, there were none. The few photos that are scattered throughout are mostly Holland family photos with only two Motown-artist photos -- a beautiful one of Diana and a horrible shot of Mary. Kinda disappointing. But keeping the faith that it'll be an exciting read!

They mixed up Brian and Eddie in the credits on page 41

[Philles/Motown Gary]

They mixed up Brian and Eddie in the credits on page 41
I just checked my copy. They sure did, boyfromxtown!

[snakepit]

Is it worth getting?

[jobucats]

I saw this at Barnes and Nobles yesterday; however, I will hold off on purchasing it right now [[I am sure I will later). From the pages I was able to peruse, it appeared that the focus was on how the idea for some of their particular hits came to mind. I didn't see much regarding the actual recording sessions; although that might be because I didn't skim the whole book.

[woodward]

When I placed my order for the book with Amazon.com, I was enrolled automatically in the lowest price guarantee, namely, if the price goes down before it is shipped, I will be refunded the difference. MUCH TO MY SURPRISE, I just got notification that the price when I placed the order was $28.99 and it has now dropped to $27.95 meaning I will be getting a refund of a whole $1.04. I can save that towards How Sweet It Is which is coming in the near future.

[snakepit]

Any reviews..is it worth buying?

[Quinn]

Any reviews..is it worth buying?
Yes,it is worth acquiring. It gives the reader a closer look into what made them the legends that they are. Of course I'm not done with the book, but I've bursted out in laughter many times since I started the book. Eddie is the primary narrator and basically the voice in the book. Brian makes a statement here and there,his biggest contribution is when he talks about his marriage to his first wife[[a must read)and how he crafted the melodies with Lamont. There's much info about the complexities of their friendship with Lamont too, largely told by Eddie. If I can tell you anything without telling much it's that nothing is really as we thought it was with these guys. We didn't know as much as we thought we did. Lamont's book in many ways will accompany and answer this book, but until then get this one.

[snakepit]

Many thanks Quinn..appreciated.

[TomatoTom123]

Yes, it is, Tom. Indubitably!

And what a great word Gary!!!

[Motown Eddie]

Yes,it is worth acquiring. It gives the reader a closer look into what made them the legends that they are. Of course I'm not done with the book, but I've bursted out in laughter many times since I started the book. Eddie is the primary narrator and basically the voice in the book. Brian makes a statement here and there,his biggest contribution is when he talks about his marriage to his first wife[[a must read)and how he crafted the melodies with Lamont. There's much info about the complexities of their friendship with Lamont too, largely told by Eddie. If I can tell you anything without telling much it's that nothing is really as we thought it was with these guys. We didn't know as much as we thought we did. Lamont's book in many ways will accompany and answer this book, but until then get this one.

I've finished reading my copy of CAGTM and without giving away any "spoilers" I say it's essential reading for Motown fans [[and yes indeed, 'Nothing is really as we thought it was' when it comes to HDH).

[Philles/Motown Gary]

And what a great word Gary!!!
Ha! Yes it is, Tom -- undoubtedly!!!

[Motown4Ever518]

At this point I am up to the beginning days of Motown. As a fan of family, I absolutely loved reading about the Holland Brothers growing up and how the experiences shaped who they are. I agree with Quinn that when we have the Mr. Lamont Dozier book as a companion piece, we will have a clearer idea of these august personages and how they produced the body of work that they did..
Without giving too much away, I looked at the appendix of all of the songs that were written, produced, and recorded by these two and it is a simply staggering amount of material. To say nothing about the success that they had with in a word, masterpieces. Given that, they are coming off as very humble human beings.

[motony]

I read this book this weekend and although I enjoyed it, I did not learn anything really new . I thought the first record they had as HDH was "Locking Up My Heart". Also in the back of the book "Locking Up My Heart" is listed by Martha & the Marvelettes, LOL

[jbpintus]

Just starting to read the book.
I wonder where the informations about the hits come from.
Did the Temptations’ « A Tear From a Woman’s Eye » really charted at number 3 in 1964? [[Page 319, as part of the selected discography)
Oops...
Now it’s what in the text that counts!
JB

[jaywonder]

Just read a few pages from a friend's copy and was immediately drawn in. Buying asap

[Suedehead]

Got my copy yesterday, too, Eddie. No time to read it yet, though, as I'm too busy preparing the next Phil Spector thread. I did notice, however, that there aren't many photos. When I opened it to the center of the book -- expecting to see countless photos of The Supremes, Four Tops, Martha & The Vandellas, The Temptations, Jr. Walker, The Elgins, Shorty Long, and all of the artists who H-D-H produced, there were none. The few photos that are scattered throughout are mostly Holland family photos with only two Motown-artist photos -- a beautiful one of Diana and a horrible shot of Mary. Kinda disappointing. But keeping the faith that it'll be an exciting read!

The same for me, I was expecting many color pictures!

[snakepit]

Eddie Holland should take up politics.
He would be ideal as a spin doctor.

[drlorne]

I was disappointed in the book. It's basically from Eddie's perspective, Brian chimes in once in awhile. I ended up not liking Eddie for a number of reasons. I'm not sure why he painted himself as he did or if he was even aware of how he was coming across. The book is a pasting of anecdotes, like having a tape recorder going and then piecing bits and pieces together.
2 things: [[1) He says Where did our love go, was written specifically for the Supremes, he wanted Mary to sing it, but was overruled because Diana was the lead, and they lowered the key to get the feel that he [[Eddie) wanted. He thought Diana sang too high at that time. No mention of the Marvellettes and the song.
[[2) Brian and Diana were an item while he was still married. He called it off. He was very effusive and complimentary about her character, her nicesness, her sweetness...a lovely person he wanted to be with.
Some minimal stuff about the failure of Invictus, Hot Wax, and Music Merchant.
I hope Lamont's is better written and more interesting.

[drlorne]

Another point. On the song Reflections he talks about Lawrence Horn coming up with the
outer world sound, but I've always read that it was Russ Terrana. He doesn't mention Russ
anywhere in the book, but mentions Lawrence Horn at least twice.

[snakepit]

I agree with you drlorne.
I have mixed feelings regarding the book, but I would recommend it to any Motown fan .

On the plus side, there are a number of stories dealing with the early days of HDH and their role at Motown. It was helpful to read this from another angle, although nothing really revealing.

However, as I stated above, EH would be a successful politician/spin doctor.
He seems to be very skilled at deflecting issues and giving a very selective answer to questions we have wanted to ask for years.
My main interest is in the falling out/Leaving Motown. I immediately went to those chapters , and Found a smokescreen to be honest.
He continually says " it wasn't about money", yet virtually all the book is about EH wanting money.
The book is full of contradictions.
He claims he wanted Brian to get better royalties...no mention of Lamont Dozier.
Then he wanted stock [[ which Gordy offered). He wasn't happy with that.
He claims it was about a HDH label...why didn't he called Invictus "HDH"
He says he didn't want " fame"....yet cries that nobody knew HDH's name.
Gordy tried to talk EH into a agreement [[ which EH states was impressive) but then said no, and touted for better offers elsewhere.
He complains the row went too far...and that a telephone call could have settled it. Yet he turned Gordy down before [[ see above)

I think it was ALL about money.
Two massive things happened to create this situation, one Gordy couldn't control, and the other a massive mistake on his part.
Namely,in late 1966, Mickey Stevenson left after receiving an offer from MGM that Gordy couldn't, or wouldn't match.
He then appointed EH to A&R manager. This gave EH great power.
I believe that EH took the opportunity to challenge Gordy for more money.
He claims he tried to save Motown money by preparing reports on studio costs and a comparison of productions/Hit Record ratios.
I think this was EH loading bullets for his gun, claiming that HDH were making all the money from their hits. Of course he doesn't admit that they had the 'lock' on DRATS/Four Tops.....they were bound to have the best results.

BTW there is ,what appears to me, a spiteful comment on an unnamed producer/team whose ratio of hits/studio costs seem to annoy him.
I think I know who hr might mean, because virtually every Hitsvillr staffer gets mentioned in book apart from him. A ridiculous omission.

His dealings when setting up Invictus/Hot Wax again is dominated by money.
There is no problem with getting the best deal..but why not just admit that he wanted a better deal at Motown because he believed He deserved it. No shame in that at all. But it seems SO hard to say...
" I wanted a better pay cheque"......

[snakepit]

I was disappointed in the book. It's basically from Eddie's perspective, Brian chimes in once in awhile. I ended up not liking Eddie for a number of reasons. I'm not sure why he painted himself as he did or if he was even aware of how he was coming across. The book is a pasting of anecdotes, like having a tape recorder going and then piecing bits and pieces together.
2 things: [[1) He says Where did our love go, was written specifically for the Supremes, he wanted Mary to sing it, but was overruled because Diana was the lead, and they lowered the key to get the feel that he [[Eddie) wanted. He thought Diana sang too high at that time. No mention of the Marvellettes and the song.
[[2) Brian and Diana were an item while he was still married. He called it off. He was very effusive and complimentary about her character, her nicesness, her sweetness...a lovely person he wanted to be with.
Some minimal stuff about the failure of Invictus, Hot Wax, and Music Merchant.
I hope Lamont's is better written and more interesting.
Drlorne

If you read Barney Ales' forward, he states that WDOLG was Never intended for Marvelettes..it was always written for DRATS.

[drlorne]

Yes, so many inconsistencies...about his decisions and it was obvious it was about money.
I thought it was funny because at one point in the book, they want to relax so they went to the racetrack and he mentions they had just bought 6 race horses. He wanted more money and more power. It makes you wonder if the failure of Invictus might have been due to this blind side of his personality.
I think the book was a lazy man's undertaking, just to make money.
I hope Lamont Dozier's book is better written and more detailed about the writing process and has more information about the producing and background to their songs.

[WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance]

I think the book was a lazy man's undertaking, just to make money.
I hope Lamont Dozier's book is better written and more detailed about the writing process and has more information about the producing and background to their songs.
I have not bought the book yet, so I know this is premature, but some of the comments so far struck a chord with me about some of these books. I've bought quite a few books on Motown and the thing I've found is that there are a couple that call to mind the term "Vanity Press". These are books that seem to be written completely by someone who doesn't really have a grasp for how to write in detail, depth and with no real sense of narrative. These books are nothing more than very, VERY short sentences strung together as opposed to paragraphs that give context, detail and a sense of some kind of drama that makes us want to read on. The major publishing houses would pass on them in a second, but it's fairly easy to get anything published- if you pay them enough.

I don't know if the person[[s) writing these types of books are working with professional editors or not. Someone who could prod the subject to really get into something with "meat on its bones" to grip the reader's attention. Instead, we get not much more than heavily sanitized anecdotes that give no real background or motive for why this or that happened, why this or that turned out as it did. Some of these books read like nothing short of Dear Diary entries strung together.

I'd have to say, for better or worse, Mary Wilson's books were very involving and interesting reading. I'm not talking about accuracy here or whether or not you like the woman, but I'm dealing with the art of writing in a way that draws someone in. If the book angers you, fine. At least it elicited some kind of emotional response. Some of the books I've purchased from former Motowners are so poorly written and short on detail, they don't even get me mad or happy. Just yawning with the sense of not learning anything new.

If Lamont was astute enough to get an editor who was smart enough to encourage him not to try to make himself out a flawless, saintly human, maybe we'll get something that will make us jump up and down.

[snakepit]

I have a number of Motown books. In terms of detail , it is one of the better ones.
The narrative is mainly EH but then we are given "quotes" by...EH! So much of it must be co writer Dave Thompson.

Like I have said, the main interest for me is the "strike". EH apparently 'walked out' in 1961 because of his lack of royalties on "Jamie". Motown was trying to build itself into a viable record label..early days...and if he had built a career around a few hits, money would have come, even if only in stage appearances.
Of course we know he didn't want to do that. Not much money would be made on sales alone.
By late 1966 Motown was making big money after lots of hits and presumably TV and theatre bookings [[ How much were DRATS / Motown getting for Las Vegas bookings). I think a number of employees at the 'coal face' ...artists, musicians, writers /producers/ arrangers etc were able to see certain staff at the high end were receiving big rewards. A lot of unrest was brewing, and with Gordy frequently absent with DRATS, the atmosphere must have been festering. I think EH tapped into this, and knowing that HDH were so important, took his chance to challenge Berry.
By making him head of A&R, he had given EH a strong bargaining chip.

It's human nature to want to be rewarded for your hard work, skills and talent. If your employer does not want to meet your idea of your worth, you might look for another job/position.
I think EH has a beef that their contracts/royalty rates are on a par with other, less sucessful writers.
But as HDH had big hits, they were getting bigger rewards.
The 'internal' report, and the slight of the unnamed producer is telling.
BTW any idea to whom he is refering to?

The way he deals with 'Edith Wayne" is laughable. I presume.a.lawsuit might be around the corner. We have bern told she was an office.cleaner..or a ficticious name of Lamont's teacher..
We know find out that she was in fact EH girlfriend/wife . We all know HDH wrote those early songs under her name
But the way he avoids telling us is in keeping with a lot of his narrative.

[Boogiedown]

I have a number of Motown books. In terms of detail , it is one of the better ones.
The narrative is mainly EH but then we are given "quotes" by...EH! So much of it must be co writer Dave Thompson.

Like I have said, the main interest for me is the "strike". EH apparently 'walked out' in 1961 because of his lack of royalties on "Jamie". Motown was trying to build itself into a viable record label..early days...and if he had built a career around a few hits, money would have come, even if only in stage appearances.
Of course we know he didn't want to do that. Not much money would be made on sales alone.
By late 1966 Motown was making big money after lots of hits and presumably TV and theatre bookings [[ How much were DRATS / Motown getting for Las Vegas bookings). I think a number of employees at the 'coal face' ...artists, musicians, writers /producers/ arrangers etc were able to see certain staff at the high end were receiving big rewards. A lot of unrest was brewing, and with Gordy frequently absent with DRATS, the atmosphere must have been festering. I think EH tapped into this, and knowing that HDH were so important, took his chance to challenge Berry.
By making him head of A&R, he had given EH a strong bargaining chip.

It's human nature to want to be rewarded for your hard work, skills and talent. If your employer does not want to meet your idea of your worth, you might look for another job/position.
I think EH has a beef that their contracts/royalty rates are on a par with other, less sucessful writers.
But as HDH had big hits, they were getting bigger rewards.
The 'internal' report, and the slight of the unnamed producer is telling.
BTW any idea to whom he is refering to?

The way he deals with 'Edith Wayne" is laughable. I presume.a.lawsuit might be around the corner. We have bern told she was an office.cleaner..or a ficticious name of Lamont's teacher..
We know find out that she was in fact EH girlfriend/wife . We all know HDH wrote those early songs under her name
But the way he avoids telling us is in keeping with a lot of his narrative.

Thanks snakepit , I'm getting a lot out of your comments. Too bad you weren't the editor !! You could've steered the narrative and given Eddie the needed push. I think a lot of times the writers don't understand what it is the readers are seeking, or they mostly hold back and don't want to do an honest reveal. For me, there never seems to be enough about the music itself and its making.

[snakepit]

Boogiedown,
I would recommend the book to you.
There are lots of details a Motown collector will find useful.

By and large , it flows well in respect of Motown chronolgy. Some details are incorrect but not as bad some other books.
The issue for me is EH constantly equating everything to money [[ or lack of it) and then using verbal gymnastics to try to persuade us that money was not the reason for him leaving.
Some things that come out of the story. It appears he left on his own....Brian and Lamont apprer to be somewhat railroaded into leaving.
EH was clearly having discussions with other labels and playing one of against the other. His demands must have worn Berry down, and he eventually handed it all to his admin/legal team.
EH's ego wanted a fight....and the rest is history.

[jaybs]

At last my signed copy of Lamont's book arrived yesterday [[New Year's Eve) took a while posted from USA 13th December, well worth waiting for, great signature, love the cover, and good reading so far, also impressed to have the free CD in the back page.

[motony]

Read about WDOLG in Lamont Doziers book.Thats the story I remember decades ago.

[jobeterob]

13% of the way through the book on my kindle - it says

I’ve read that WDOLG was written for the Supremes only

Other than that a lot about aunts uncles grandparents that isn’t very cohesive and doesn’t create much of a narrative

Hoping to move along quite quickly

[PeaceNHarmony]

13% of the way through the book on my kindle - it says

I’ve read that WDOLG was written for the Supremes only

Other than that a lot about aunts uncles grandparents that isn’t very cohesive and doesn’t create much of a narrative

Hoping to move along quite quicklyInteresting comments and look forward to hearing more of your views.

[jobeterob]

It gets a lot better

Brian dated Diana and Lamont dated Mary; Florence might have been interested in Eddie but he has his iron in too many fires already

Some of the most complimentary writing I’ve seen about Diana

Nothing much about Mary

A good section on Baby Love and how Brian said to go for the feel of a song; everyone agreed Brian was a genius who musical abilities were beyond everyone else; Eddie says it again and again

A good section on how much trouble they initially had teaching Levi Baby I Need Your Loving

And Where Did Our Love Go never was intended for anyone but the Supremes, but Eddie did think Mary should sing lead - which lead to lowering Diana’s voice for the tune and dropping some of that early high pitched sound

Get the book

[mysterysinger]

I've not read the book and I'm no expert on HDH but these were young people and many of the guys fancied Diana by all accounts so maybe the fallout was to do with that since Brian Holland was keen on her and Berry got "the prize" as it were.

Maybe the split wasn't all about money but about personal relationships generally. I'm sure I read somewhere that once when "I Hear A Symphony" came on the car radio, Brian pulled over and cried. Plus, potentially, the DRATS career could have been harmed the most by the departure of HDH. Are there any clues to that in the songs - "Reflections" seems quite deep?

[marv2]

I have not bought the book yet, so I know this is premature, but some of the comments so far struck a chord with me about some of these books. I've bought quite a few books on Motown and the thing I've found is that there are a couple that call to mind the term "Vanity Press". These are books that seem to be written completely by someone who doesn't really have a grasp for how to write in detail, depth and with no real sense of narrative. These books are nothing more than very, VERY short sentences strung together as opposed to paragraphs that give context, detail and a sense of some kind of drama that makes us want to read on. The major publishing houses would pass on them in a second, but it's fairly easy to get anything published- if you pay them enough.

I don't know if the person[[s) writing these types of books are working with professional editors or not. Someone who could prod the subject to really get into something with "meat on its bones" to grip the reader's attention. Instead, we get not much more than heavily sanitized anecdotes that give no real background or motive for why this or that happened, why this or that turned out as it did. Some of these books read like nothing short of Dear Diary entries strung together.

I'd have to say, for better or worse, Mary Wilson's books were very involving and interesting reading. I'm not talking about accuracy here or whether or not you like the woman, but I'm dealing with the art of writing in a way that draws someone in. If the book angers you, fine. At least it elicited some kind of emotional response. Some of the books I've purchased from former Motowners are so poorly written and short on detail, they don't even get me mad or happy. Just yawning with the sense of not learning anything new.

If Lamont was astute enough to get an editor who was smart enough to encourage him not to try to make himself out a flawless, saintly human, maybe we'll get something that will make us jump up and down.

I love Mary Wilson and I loved her books.

[jobeterob]

I've not read the book and I'm no expert on HDH but these were young people and many of the guys fancied Diana by all accounts so maybe the fallout was to do with that since Brian Holland was keen on her and Berry got "the prize" as it were.

Maybe the split wasn't all about money but about personal relationships generally. I'm sure I read somewhere that once when "I Hear A Symphony" came on the car radio, Brian pulled over and cried. Plus, potentially, the DRATS career could have been harmed the most by the departure of HDH. Are there any clues to that in the songs - "Reflections" seems quite deep?

The Diana Brian relationship ended before Diana and Berry were an item; Brian enlisted Berry to help Diana through the breakup. Brian stayed because of his children and in the end, he left. His wife is said to have been one of the meanest people who was physically violent on impulse and who eventually committed suicide.

There is a section on I Hear A Symphony and it definitely was regarded as special.

I’m halfway through and haven’t reached Reflections or the split.

It’s about $25 for a digital copy; it starts slowly but it’s a decent read.

All Motown fans should read it; it does change your view and debunks some widely held ideas.

[thommg]

And Where Did Our Love Go never was intended for anyone but the Supremes, but Eddie did think Mary should sing lead - which lead to lowering Diana’s voice for the tune and dropping some of that early high pitched sound

This is not the story Lamont tells in his book. He says that they wrote the songs for The Marvelettes who didn't think it fit them. Wanting to make sure they didn't get stuck for the recording costs of the track, he pitched it to Mary as having been written for The Supremes but she knew they had already pitched it to The Marvelettes.

[marv2]

This is not the story Lamont tells in his book. He says that they wrote the songs for The Marvelettes who didn't think it fit them. Wanting to make sure they didn't get stuck for the recording costs of the track, he pitched it to Mary as having been written for The Supremes but she knew they had already pitched it to The Marvelettes.

I've heard varying stories too thommg.

[jobeterob]

This is not the story Lamont tells in his book. He says that they wrote the songs for The Marvelettes who didn't think it fit them. Wanting to make sure they didn't get stuck for the recording costs of the track, he pitched it to Mary as having been written for The Supremes but she knew they had already pitched it to The Marvelettes.

Totally different coming from the Hollands who say it had no connection to the Marvelettes but Lamont did think it needed a lower softer sound like Mary’s - but he was told she wasn’t the lead singer - which led to the pitch being lowered

[drlorne]

Marv 2, I agree with you. Eddie and Brian's book must have been a "vanity Press", because it really is a mess. I certainly felt betrayed and "taken", because they could have offered so much more, but they gave the minimum to get the money. Nothing really new, and what might have been new, is refuted in Lamon't book. I didn't buy his book, in honesty, but didn't like his re-take on his music, and the Dozier's book came out first, so I didn't want to be taken twice.
Do you think we'll ever know the real ins and out of the Supreme's music and the HDH catalogue?

[WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance]

I love Mary Wilson and I loved her books.
I only bought the first book -I kept saying I was going to buy the 2nd book, but I think I was afraid that the first one was a hard act to follow!- but I did really enjoy it. The writing felt "thorough", not as if she was just hurriedly dropping one incomplete story after another.

I say that, because I know, myself, if I'm sending an email [[or DECADES ago, when I wrote letters), I have a tendency to get a bit lazy and just drop a few quick blurbs instead of actually writing in depth about things going on with me. I've read many books where it felt like I was only getting a few quickly tossed off recollections along the lines of "I felt very deeply that my song would be a hit and when it was, I was very happy!" Mary gave you something to seriously chew on, detailed recollections of this or that which made for engaging reading.

I love that woman. She kept her wits about her she knew that this thing called "celebrity" is a game you needed to learn quickly to endure, especially at Motown.

[WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance]

Totally different coming from the Hollands who say it had no connection to the Marvelettes but Lamont did think it needed a lower softer sound like Mary’s - but he was told she wasn’t the lead singer - which led to the pitch being lowered On the left is his story, on the right is his story and somewhere in the middle is the truth. In an episode of the old "Alfred Hitchcock Presents" there was an auto accident that had been viewed by several people. Each had a different recollection of the accident. When the truth of what actually happened is revealed you see bits and pieces of everyone's story. There was a kernel of truth in everyone's recollection.

I tend to go with Lamont's story of "Where Did Our Love Go." Doesn't mean I'm right, but I believe it. One thing I appreciate about the Holland brothers' book is that for once, someone from Motown is giving The Marvelettes some serious props. I was pleasantly surprised to read in quite a few places how important the group was to Motown and to the Hollands in the early days. In fact, you gain a perspective on just how solid The Marvelettes were performing compared to even Martha & The Vandellas. I always took it that The Marvelettes were hot for a moment, the fairly quickly faded to a distant second place once Martha & The Vandellas hit. The Hollands' book seems to give a bit more perspective on that.

Years ago, I recall reading, maybe from Lamont, that when "Where" was being pitched, the feeling was to place it with The Marvelettes because they were the sure bet. I believe that as The Supremes still weren't really selling with any consistency and hadn't become fan favorites across the board yet. Also, when you listen to what HDH had been doing with The Marvelettes, songs like "He Won't Be True [[Little Girl Blue)", "Tie A String Around Your Finger", "A Little Bit Of Sympathy, A Little Bit Of Love", "A Need For Love", you can hear a definite sound being developed. HDH's work with The Marvelettes was much closer in sound to "Where" than what the trio had been doing with The Supremes up to that point. And the song was also in Gladys Horton's key, something either Lamont or one of the Hollands had recalled some years ago. Also, "Come And Get These Memories" shows that at this point, "Where" wasn't seen as an automatic hit that would instantly sell millions and catapult The Supremes into instant stardom. At this point, it was still Martha & The Vandellas' and The Marvelettes' ballpark and someone thought "Where" would have a chance of working with The Marvelettes.

So one thing about this book is that Eddie and to some degree Brian, have a tendency to kinda blow right past any really deep detailing of how some of these songs took place. I was a bummed when I read about "Reach Out", everyone thought it was certainly strange. That's about all that is said about that earth-shaking song. Then, toward the end of the book, when discussing the Invictus years, there are passages where not much context is given and I would read something and think, "what?" [[There was a story about a box of expensive wine given and it was a bit murky as to why it meant anything). I did enjoy the book, but it would have been nice to have a few more details about some things here and there.

In the end, I think this story about "Where" is just one of those things where he has his side of the story, the other guys have their side of the story and the truth lies somewhere in between.

[jobeterob]

What’s the relationship of the Holland’s and Lamont these days? Is there still some contact?

I wondered if this book was a framework for something else? Another Broadway play?

I once did a rough calculation of what Motown the Musical made and it was staggering.

[jobeterob]

They do talk about Reflections, the move to album sales and the use of the synthesizer - which Brian disliked. But it worked very well and they were happy they used it.

They say this was a tough time because Florence had started to drink and she and Diana were not getting along. Mary stayed out of it all but Florence was replaced and the group was renamed.

And they say Diana is the only Supreme on Reflections.

[Circa 1824]

I once did a rough calculation of what Motown the Musical made and it was staggering.

Berry made a fatal mistake to close the Broadway show while it was still hot with the hope of reopening it many months later. When the show did reopen, it was considered yesterday’s mashed potatoes and closed quickly.

[johnjeb]

I have both books. It's been a few months since I've read them but here are my initial thoughts. I will have to reread them both to see if I have the same or different reactions to each.

Brian and Eddie's book seemed like a series of interviews that were transcribed for publication. More like an in-depth Goldmine Magazine article for record collectors and music fans. I don't care for this type of "book". I would still recommend it for collectors and fans.

Lamont's book seemed more professionally executed. His book had a goal of guiding future songwriters with tips based on personal experiences in his life and career. It seems Lamont has had an interesting career beyond Motown, Invictus and his early solo career. It was an informative read. It seemed to have a soft and relaxed tone. I would recommend this book to casual music fans, in addition to the collector and avid Motown fan.

I enjoyed reading about their lives before Motown. It seemed that the three of them were fans of Popular music, through the influence of older relatives. Although Gospel, R&B and the Blues had a presence in their young lives, it was Pop music of the day that caught their ears. That would certainly explain the success they had at Motown in merging R&B and Pop, to some degree.

It seems all three of them were constantly working on music, whether together or alone. It sounded like a frenetic pace. This might explain the discrepancies in some of their stories, especially WDOLG. I wonder if individually they may have presented the song to one of the girls from both groups to gauge a reaction or get feedback to see if their hunch or approach made sense. And besides who can really remember some details from so long ago.

Both books are definitely must reads for Motown music collectors and fans. Most of the Motown books I have read have fallen short on some level or another but all of them have given me something valuable regarding the music and artist.

[blackguy69]

And that fact was rebuked. You know we discussed that a month ago and George confirmed that Mary was on it.
They do talk about Reflections, the move to album sales and the use of the synthesizer - which Brian disliked. But it worked very well and they were happy they used it.

They say this was a tough time because Florence had started to drink and she and Diana were not getting along. Mary stayed out of it all but Florence was replaced and the group was renamed.

And they say Diana is the only Supreme on Reflections.

[blackguy69]

Sorry typo I meant debunked
And that fact was rebuked. You know we discussed that a month ago and George confirmed that Mary was on it.

[jobeterob]

They sure have some differing views just like everything else

As others have mentioned, there could be some truth in the middle

They don’t say who they used in the background - just a one liner that there was only one Supreme on Reflections

[blackguy69]

And as George said before he can confirm that Mary did sing on it. Plus if I’m correct Eddie and Brian never worked with the background vocals. Lamont handled that.
They sure have some differing views just like everything else

As others have mentioned, there could be some truth in the middle

They don’t say who they used in the background - just a one liner that there was only one Supreme on Reflections

[marv2]

And as George said before he can confirm that Mary did sing on it. Plus if I’m correct Eddie and Brian never worked with the background vocals. Lamont handled that.

Mary is singing on "Reflections". You can hear her. George Soloman even confirmed it for the people that just like to argue like Jobeterob. If you listen to him, he was on it! LOL!

[jobeterob]

Not sure about the end of this book

Of course, nothing HDH did after Motown had anywhere near the impact of 1964 to 1968

Eddie seems convinced of his importance; he was consumed in more than one legal fight with Berry Gordy but he doesn’t spell out any really detail at all. He wants to convince everyone and maybe himself that he loved Berry and Berry loved him but they are too strong willed and had to fight to the end

I wasn’t impressed by the argument

He seemed like an aggressive litigant wasting a lot of money with lawyers

There was a lot more that could have filled out the book

[snakepit]

He "walked out" in about 1962....it seems it was all about money as far as EH was concerned.
It seems to me that he saw how MGM headhunted William Stevenson, presumably for a salary Gordy wouldn't match, and he used his new found status to "try it on" with the Boss.
He was clearly sounding out other companies for more money.

[jobeterob]

He "walked out" in about 1962....it seems it was all about money as far as EH was concerned.
It seems to me that he saw how MGM headhunted William Stevenson, presumably for a salary Gordy wouldn't match, and he used his new found status to "try it on" with the Boss.
He was clearly sounding out other companies for more money.

Brian seemed so mellow and kind and Eddie pretty aggressive and willing to draw lines in the sand and fight to the death

[snakepit]

Yes...EH left Motown , initially leaving BH and LD behind.
The vast majority of the HDH towards the end were recycled productions of earlier songs, and I'd guess that was BH and LD work. EH had stopped writing some time earlier and he left on his own
The others followed him later.
Seems he had the upper hand.

[jobeterob]

Eddie got 50% and the others got 25% each.

And it seems to me the most talented one was Brian. That's what Eddie seems to keep saying all the time. And I think there's an implication Lamont was a notch below; at least he keeps saying that's how Lamont felt.

I don't really understand why Eddie got 50%.

[PeaceNHarmony]

Eddie got 50% and the others got 25% each.

And it seems to me the most talented one was Brian. That's what Eddie seems to keep saying all the time. And I think there's an implication Lamont was a notch below; at least he keeps saying that's how Lamont felt.

I don't really understand why Eddie got 50%.Seems [[from your posts) like a poorly written yet interesting book. I'll wait until my library reopens and get it on an inter-library loan.

[jobeterob]

Interesting but disappointing and not well written; worth reading ; 3 out of 5

[benross]

Maybe both narratives are correct. In releasing this single, Motown was emphatic in letting us know that now there were two entities: "The Supremes" and "Diana Ross."

So Mary Wilson, a Supreme, and Diana Ross, a singular superstar, may each be on this recording, and Messrs. Holland and Mr. Dozier are each providing accurate information, despite the seeming contradiction.

[jobeterob]

I wonder what George’s thought are on what the Holland’s say

[carlo]

The problem with many of these recent memoirs that are being released is that these accounts are finally being recalled and put to paper, nearly 60 years after these events occurred. This is sadly something that should have been done 20 or 30 years ago, while memories were far more clear than they are now. With that being said, I am not surprised that Lamont's book contains stories that conflict with Eddie and Brian's book. I am also not surprised that neither of their books offer up more details than what we wanted and expected. The time to do this would have been in the 80's or early 90's, when other Motown stars were releasing their books. I also do not believe that Diana is the only Supreme on Reflections. If you are a long-time fan with an attuned ear, you will clearly hear Mary on there. I am certain that the memories and recounts of such events have significantly faded, so to hear one claim, "I remember that only so-and-so sang on this record" does not really carry a lot of weight after 50 years, in my opinion. Jobeterob, you yourself are a retired lawyer, if I am not mistaken? This argument I am making goes in line with why the legal concept of statute of limitations exists. :) I am certain that they were mistaking their memories of the Reflections sessions with the sessions for a different song.

[marv2]

The problem with many of these recent memoirs that are being released is that these accounts are finally being recalled and put to paper, nearly 60 years after these events occurred. This is sadly something that should have been done 20 or 30 years ago, while memories were far more clear than they are now. With that being said, I am not surprised that Lamont's book contains stories that conflict with Eddie and Brian's book. I am also not surprised that neither of their books offer up more details than what we wanted and expected. The time to do this would have been in the 80's or early 90's, when other Motown stars were releasing their books. I also do not believe that Diana is the only Supreme on Reflections. If you are a long-time fan with an attuned ear, you will clearly hear Mary on there. I am certain that the memories and recounts of such events have significantly faded, so to hear one claim, "I remember that only so-and-so sang on this record" does not really carry a lot of weight after 50 years, in my opinion. Jobeterob, you yourself are a retired lawyer, if I am not mistaken? This argument I am making goes in line with why the legal concept of statute of limitations exists. :) I am certain that they were mistaking their memories of the Reflections sessions with the sessions for a different song.

Great synopsis Carlo!

[jobeterob]

Not retired but a lawyer

Yes memories from years ago are certainly questionable and would often need corroboration in other ways

The question of what is in what is compounded by producing having multiple versions and lots of fluffing up, picking and choosing pieces

If the Supremes had not been so massively successful, no one would care

[mysterysinger]

One of the greatest joys in life is listening to Eddie Holland on "Little Miss Ruby". I just love that. Does that period get a mention in the book?

[jobeterob]

Not in the Holland’s book but maybe Lamont’s which I will buy.

One thing I don’t really understand about many of these books is how amateur they seem. It’s easy to understand why Maxine Powell would be on a shoe string but even in the era of paltry royalties, you would think HDH would have good incomes and do a better quality book.

[PeaceNHarmony]

My guess is that the amateur quality has largely to do with projected sales figures, budgeting by the publisher and lack of writing and editing skills on the part of the subject. Fact is outside of these forums, public awareness of HDH is near zero. Probably best would be for a skilled biographer to have interviewed each separately [[in addition to their contemporaries) then composed a trio-biography, in the vein of Sheila Weller's Girls Like Us. Add into the mix the fact that memories are selective and subjective, even minutes after an event: compound that by years, decades, and a demi-century, then leaven with readers' tendency to interpret a subject's statements to their own preconceived notions and essentially we are left with entertaining stories that may or may not be factual. True historians and serious biographers can also be subject to their own preconceived notions but will at least make the attempt to refrain from publishing statements unless there are multiple corroborative memories.

[lucky2012]

I think you are write on, Peace!

[jobeterob]

My guess is that the amateur quality has largely to do with projected sales figures, budgeting by the publisher and lack of writing and editing skills on the part of the subject. Fact is outside of these forums, public awareness of HDH is near zero. Probably best would be for a skilled biographer to have interviewed each separately [[in addition to their contemporaries) then composed a trio-biography, in the vein of Sheila Weller's Girls Like Us. Add into the mix the fact that memories are selective and subjective, even minutes after an event: compound that by years, decades, and a demi-century, then leaven with readers' tendency to interpret a subject's statements to their own preconceived notions and essentially we are left with entertaining stories that may or may not be factual. True historians and serious biographers can also be subject to their own preconceived notions but will at least make the attempt to refrain from publishing statements unless there are multiple corroborative memories.

Well written; makes sense

[WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance]

If the Supremes had not been so massively successful, no one would care
That kinda says it all.

[tmd]

At about 60 pages and I really enjoy reading about their upbringing with Grand Ma Ola and Uncle James.
They disciplined, something that is sorely missing this day and age, very refreshing to read. Like how they mentioned that it was a village and all of the neighbors kept an eye on the Holland boys.

[tmd]

Love how they describe Berry Gordy, good chapter so far so good. Did not know Brian was the first paid employee at Motown. Also how the both of them were among the first employees with Motown.

[tmd]

Whenever someone has asked me about when classic Motown started, always refer to Baby I Need Your Loving. I believed the strings added is what made this song special. An lo and behold Brian confirmed in the book, wow did that make me feel good that I was spot on. Something I was not aware of is that it is the number one played Motown song in history. Loving this book.

[tmd]

Mostly a very good book, enjoyed most of it, I did like reading about post Motown, it appears that it was really Eddie who was driving Invictus and Hot Wax, since Brian and Lamont were still with Motown, at least for their big hits early on.
3 stars out of 4 stars

[midnightman]

Interesting how Brian & Eddie still deny that they pitched WDOLG to the Marvelettes. Only Lamont said it was because of how the song was pitched. I don't think Wanda was the designated lead singer then and they hadn't tried her low pitch [[like Smokey eventually would). But even today, I can't hear Gladys sing it. The fact Eddie discovered that Diana could sing low changed music history.

Did they discuss Marvin to any length in this book? I know Lamont did.

[WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance]

There is a section at the back with all the songs written by HDH along with the artists who did covers. One in particular stands, REALLY stands out: "Love Is Like A Bitching In My Heart." The only connection I can tell is in the copping of the title.

[WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance]

Interesting how Brian & Eddie still deny that they pitched WDOLG to the Marvelettes. Only Lamont said it was because of how the song was pitched. I don't think Wanda was the designated lead singer then and they hadn't tried her low pitch [[like Smokey eventually would). But even today, I can't hear Gladys sing it. The fact Eddie discovered that Diana could sing low changed music history.

Did they discuss Marvin to any length in this book? I know Lamont did.

Listen to "Tie A String Around Your Finger", "A Little Bit Of Sympathy, A Little Bit Of Love" and "Need For Love". They are all in the same key as WDOLG and more or less a progression of those tunes/style. The only reason you can hear Gladys singing it is because you've got Diana's performance seared onto your psyche. Gladys could have easily sung WDOLG. Would she have performed it like Diana? No. Gladys was already developing a smoother delivery by this time but she would have put her spin on the song. Lamont had remarked that the song was being viewed as maybe an album track at the time, there was really no serious stock being put into it as a hit. "Finders Keepers, Losers Weepers" I always thought was an amped up version of WDOLG, so yeah, the song very well could have been done with The Marvelettes in mind.

And Marvin is discussed, but not in any greater detail than anyone else.

[jobeterob]

I started Lamont's book - and he says the Marvelettes sang Come and Get These Memories...………..ho hum, don't know what to make of that.

[khansperac]

I’m sure others could have sung Where did our love go. But no one could have pulled off what Diana did. She sounded cool, edgy, and sexy.