What is your favorite SDF Supremes Reunion thread?

[smark21]

There's been so many over the years, I'm wondering if there was one that stood out as being particularily memorable?

[robbert]

None whatsoever!!!

[soulster]

This is really getting ridiculous.

[theboyfromxtown]

Favourite or memorable?

My most memorable thread was last year in September 2010 and it contained the nastiest and most evil comment that I have ever seen on SDF and it was about Diane Ross. I left SDF as a result but was coaxed back by the older posters. I won't forget the person who made that comment...ever....absolutely shameful.

[robbert]

Isn't it a shame, John, that your memories can't be more positive ones?
As I said before in an other thread, it would be an HISTORICAL BLUNDER to let this valuable forum go under... because of a handful of immature fools who apparently never became to understand what it means to be a true adult.

[tamla617]

welcome to the planet zog!
it goes with the temptation with the bandiest legs,the vandella with the best buck teeth.the best motown record that mentioned a day of the week.
wish i had a tardis i'd go back before the drats bit and glue,screw,nail and rivet the supremes together,and then they'd be no reunion chat whatsover!

[theboyfromxtown]

Robbert

I can understand the passion but I don't know why it is expressed in a negative form. It's a great shame because we know there are many knowledgeable posters here that we can learn from....but surely not by having to wade through a lot of negativity to find the pearls of wisdom.

It's upset Nomis. Check out his "I need your prayers" thread on the clubhouse.

[smark21]

I started this thread in gest after two Supremes reunion threads were started earlier this week and then see the Supremes Final Sessions box set thread all of sudden turn into a Supremes Reunion thread. It's rather sad that so much energy is devoted to hoping [[or naysaying) a reunion. To me, it speaks to a hurt amongst some fans that a reunion hasn't happened and likely will never happen. Perhaps they desire a reunion to give the Supremes story a happy ending?

And then there are a few "fans" who want a reunion because they want to see one more showdown between their favorite Supreme and their least favorite Supreme so that they can see a fight break out and hope that their favorite will prevail and their least favorite will retire in shame and everlasting defeat. As well as to give these fans something new to discuss, dissect, and fight about online until they become too incapacitated to log on to the internet.

[sophisticated_soul]

Favourite or memorable?

My most memorable thread was last year in September 2010 and it contained the nastiest and most evil comment that I have ever seen on SDF and it was about Diane Ross. I left SDF as a result but was coaxed back by the older posters. I won't forget the person who made that comment...ever....absolutely shameful.

I remember the comment well, John. It was vicious. And it was stated as fact not opinion and it bothered me immensely that the poster was not sanctioned. I am so glad you were coaxed back, though. You offer a great deal to the forum. Recently I went to look up the thread involved as I had referenced the remark to someone else but oddly enough the thread was gone. I won't forget either.

[midnightman]

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lhm0f6T5MS1qa27f6.gif

[robbert]

Midnightman, is this gentleman biding his time? Or is he preparing for his role of King Solomon?

[Roberta75]

Favourite or memorable?

My most memorable thread was last year in September 2010 and it contained the nastiest and most evil comment that I have ever seen on SDF and it was about Diane Ross. I left SDF as a result but was coaxed back by the older posters. I won't forget the person who made that comment...ever....absolutely shameful.

Who made this evil comment theboyfromxtown?

[robbert]

Dear John, thou shall not be tempted te reveal.

[midnightman]

Midnightman, is this gentleman biding his time? Or is he preparing for his role of King Solomon?

No he's preparing to do another 40 minute video about nothing. Much like the Supremes threads... OOPS did I say that outloud? :p

[theboyfromxtown]

Who made this evil comment theboyfromxtown?

http://www.christianityoasis.com/keyword/busybody.htm

[Roberta75]

http://www.christianityoasis.com/keyword/busybody.htm

Point taken theboyfromxtown.

Thank you.

Roberta

[dba]

None whatsoever. I too am so tired of these threads. Why not start your own group and then all the folks that want to post hateful things can be part of that group and the rest of us can talk about the music and all good things Motown. Enough.

[ralpht]

I'm hoping THIS thread doesn't go south....................

[midnightman]

^ Ralph, that's like wishing for a Michael Jackson and Prince duet to actually work out when Michael was alive. If history has shown on this site, any indication of a Supremes thread going south is a rarity nowadays because it ain't even about the women, it's about posters' hidden agendas to use the group to attack each other for whatever reason.

[tamla617]

can these 2 sides actually listen to the original supremes,drats and post drats supremes and all their different line ups?or do they have era's that cannot be crossed?
i cant get my head 'round the whole thing really.
i've never seen one,have there ever been the same probs with the post david ruffin temps,post eddie k temps and the original outfit?

[paladin]

Please lets not bring the Tempts into this.........and I cant remember a single Supreme thread that I would like to revisit. Way too many flames for this brother.......

[sophisticated_soul]

I'm hoping THIS thread doesn't go south....................

Regarding my participation in this thread. You are right Ralph. I should just let sleeping dogs lie. I should have made my comment to boyfromxtown privately. I apologize.

[tamla617]

midnight man your post#10

made me jump he's blinking all the time,i thought i was seeing things.as a scrolled i saw his eyes open,then went back and saw them closed so i thought i'd imagined it,THEN THEY BLINKED.that was spooky!
how do you post a moving picture that moves with out "opening" blimey that was wierd! lol

[ralpht]

No apologies needed Sophisticated Soul. Your intentions were in the right place. It's a shame threads of this nature seem to go bad all of the time. I've never quite figured out why this happens, it just does.

[sophisticated_soul]

No apologies needed Sophisticated Soul. Your intentions were in the right place. It's a shame threads of this nature seem to go bad all of the time. I've never quite figured out why this happens, it just does.

I can't figure it out either Ralph. But if I don't like it [[and I don't) I shouldn't do anything to encourage it. I'm glad you understood that that was not my intention.

btw Sir Ralph - and all - on the previous forum I was "SophSoul [[sophisticated_soul)" but when we transferred over, only my parenthetical self appeared, which I know is a handful to type. So everybody Soph, SophSoul or Joseph is fine. Thanks.:cool:

[carlo]

What about Sophie? :p

[pshark]

Here's an idea, instead of flooding this forum with trivia supremes threads, maybe someone should start their own supremes forum.
http://proforums.org/

[ralpht]

Joseph works for me.........

[ralpht]

I like that idea, Shark. Anyone who gets out of line here could be bannished to that Supremes forum and they can all happily duke it out.

[tamla617]

pshark good one!

and the 1st forum is free!
i've got some names for it
madison square garden
rumble in the jungle
thriller in manilla
where's my ear gone tyson? eh?

[theboyfromxtown]

Ralph

I did suggest it when the forum changed back in August 2010. So I am definitely in favour. Pshark even came up with a title!




08-05-2010 08:58 PM #1 theboyfromxtown
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Senior Member Join Date:Aug 2010
Posts:5,399Separate Supremes and related topic
What do you think about a separate thread "Everything Supreme". I think it seems a reasonable suggestion.

I'm happy for it to proceed and also happy to continue as we are. Reply Reply With Quote .
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
08-05-2010 09:08 PM #2 pshark
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Senior Member Join Date:Aug 2010
Posts:3,126Since the supreme threads has taken over the Motown section, maybe they could
change the title to "Everything Supreme" and post all other Motown acts on the main
forum. Reply Reply With Quote .
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08-05-2010 10:20 PM #3 theboyfromxtown
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Senior Member Join Date:Aug 2010
Posts:5,399Pshark. I prefer your suggestion to my own!

Thank you.

[pshark]

^You actually came up with the title

[sophisticated_soul]

What about Sophie? :p

Mmmmmm. Not so much.:eek: Let's stick with JOsEph my friend!:cool: lol.

[theboyfromxtown]

Joseph

Tut tut....the youngsters of today.....and when you least expect it too!

HAHAHA

[ralpht]

John,
There are times I think it would be prudent to not allow any thread with "Supremes" in the title. But then that would be counter to anything this forum stands for. We live with what we have, I suppose.

[sophisticated_soul]

Joseph

Tut tut....the youngsters of today.....and when you least expect it too!

HAHAHA

Tell me about it, John! LOL!

[midnightman]

can these 2 sides actually listen to the original supremes,drats and post drats supremes and all their different line ups?or do they have era's that cannot be crossed?
i cant get my head 'round the whole thing really.
i've never seen one,have there ever been the same probs with the post david ruffin temps,post eddie k temps and the original outfit?

Me personally I like a song from all eras. For someone to single out an era would do injustice to the group as a whole. That's why this group don't really get the respect they deserve because their fan base is so friggin' divided between portions. It sucks.

[midnightman]

John,
There are times I think it would be prudent to not allow any thread with "Supremes" in the title. But then that would be counter to anything this forum stands for. We live with what we have, I suppose.

You wanna not bring attention to the girls? Name them the Sophias. No one will notice. :)

[ralpht]

Works for me, Midnight.

[theboyfromxtown]

John,
There are times I think it would be prudent to not allow any thread with "Supremes" in the title. But then that would be counter to anything this forum stands for. We live with what we have, I suppose.

Ralph

I agree that stopping any threads with "Supremes" in the title is not the right thing to do. The suggestion of a separate thread is about managing a problem that has been identified on several occasions.

There are two 2 options...we do something or we don't. To date, we have taken the second choice and hoped that the problems would cease. However, it hasn't worked so far.

Many years ago, I used to moderate a Motown group...in the days of Onelist. It catered for all the Motown artists which were not covered by other groups on the Onelist network. It was set up because there was a number of groups already dealing with Diana Ross/Supremes; the others were kind of overlooked. The Motown Onelist was there to serve those other artists but we aimed to work alongside the other Supremes groups [[and not compete) by recommending members to check out those Supremes groups. Our Motownonelist group folded only because Yahoo stopped Onelist and went to a new regime. It made me realise how much time I was spending dealing with questions and moderating the list. I had to stop and let someone else take over the reins.

Many of the posters on that old onelist are here on SDF - Rob, Midnight Johnny, Cap'n James, all from outside the UK. I have had wonderful relationships with all of them for something like 15 years. International was now becoming a historic word as a result of the internet. What a wonderful concept.

I am not suggesting we stop Supremes threads, only that we accomodate those posts separately in their own separately identified forum. Presumably it is possible. In all honesty, I do think we have to do something because I don't feel it is working for many of the members.

What is sad is that these posters will be good decent people outside the board and it's only their passion for the music that kind of takes over and results in unpleasantness.

[soulster]

I think it's that these Supremes fans want a decent place to post about their favorite group, but tend to bring along the same crap that exists on those other forums [[of which I have seen one, BTW). I think they really need their own sandbox here, a separate room, because there are a lot of SDF'ers who are totally turned off by the constant barrage of Supremes/Diana Ross/Mary Wilson threads. Some days I log on here and tune back out because I see nothing but those threads. I've tried to start threads about other things, but they are ignored in favor of all those Supremes-related threads.

[theboyfromxtown]

I have received similar remarks from members but all privately.

Members come on here to get away from the stresses and pressures of everyday life. They want to relax and be happy and do something they know they are interested in. Ploughing through threads still means having to manoeuvre through a lot of negativity and that tends to bring forward the point at which interest is lost.

[tamla617]

soulster
they weren't ignored.they didnt attract as much,granted,but most of those drats threads consist of quotes and counter quotes.the arguments drive themselves.because the peolple have to have the last word.
there are a few here that i can see are trying to drive a thread/threads to get away from the negative ones with different subjects.power to them and anyone who stays here and brings in interesting/funny and thought provoking threads
i always read your threads,if i dont answer dont take it as a negative,i might be confused!

[theboyfromxtown]

Tamla617

To every cloud there is a silver lining...

I bet the tiling has been done now! LOL

[tamla617]

rats! i knew i should have been doin' something!

[jobeterob]

Quote from John Lester above:

I am not suggesting we stop Supremes threads, only that we accomodate those posts separately in their own separately identified forum. Presumably it is possible. In all honesty, I do think we have to do something because I don't feel it is working for many of the members.

I completely agree.

Rob

[ralpht]

John and all,
If we were to have a separate room reserved for the Supremes, the forum would probably blow up. In all seriousness, as a moderator, I would be getting the same complaints I get now when things get out of hand, but probably more of them. I don't need the added aggrivation. I'll just keep doing what I have been, but maybe a little quicker, and that will be to zap any thread I feel crosses the line of civility. It just makes things easier, guys.

[skooldem1]

I've said it before and I will say it again. There is no need for a separate forum. IF it does come to that then I ask the moderator to establish a separate forum for ummm lets say the top 20 Motown Artist within the "MOTOWN" forum. One for the temptations, Marvin, Gladys, Martha/Vandellas, Marvelettes, Funk Brothers, writers, producers, etc. Fair is fair and if that is the way that some want it, then fine. Let me just say this. I get more tired of the whiners here then the offensive threads. We are all suppose to be intelligent people here and I find it hard to believe that people use a "too hard to navigate" excuse. To hard to navigate what? Its all on one damn page. Skip the ones you dont like. It doesnt take a rocket scientist. While I'm at it, I am also tired of hearing about "the downfall" of this forum. That is just wishful thinking for those that can't get their way. In life people come and people go. Just the way it is.

So I propose within the MOTOWN forum, sub forums for the top acts, writers, producers. Not just the Supremes but all Motown acts.

[sophisticated_soul]

Joseph works for me.........

I work for Ralph? Wow, I thought I retired from work a few years back. . .geesh, maybe I better lighten up on the kush. . .[[sssssssh. . .would you be quite!. . .we don't enough for everybody!. . .beside Wavy Gravy brain, that's not what he meant). Oh? Ooooooh! I get it. Sorry voice. My bad.:cool: Joseph, Joseph bo Boseph, bo nana fana. . .

[jobeterob]

Likely was meant to say..............Joseph, that works for me!

I wondered if you got a new job too. Is the pay good? Did you think you'd get to be moderator of the new Supremes section?

[soulster]

soulster
they weren't ignored.they didnt attract as much,granted,but most of those drats threads consist of quotes and counter quotes.the arguments drive themselves.because the peolple have to have the last word.
there are a few here that i can see are trying to drive a thread/threads to get away from the negative ones with different subjects.power to them and anyone who stays here and brings in interesting/funny and thought provoking threads
i always read your threads,if i dont answer dont take it as a negative,i might be confused!

Thanks! It's pretty obvious that the membership here aren't audiophiles, and even the ones that may be aren't interested in talking about the sound of all that great soul music. So, i'll post about it when the opportunity arises, but I probably won't try to start any more treads about audio around here. I guess it's true what the record companies say: R&B fans aren't interested in sound quality like the rock fans are.

I did make a post about there never being a real reunion without Florence Ballard, but the post seems to have been zapped. I don't know why.

If I post on one of those Supremes threads, it is usually because I am interested in the recordings.

As for the certain people who like to argue about stuff, I put them on ignore, which is a shame, because other than Supremes/Ross/Wilson, they have interesting things to say. But, I don't have time plow through the stupid bickering.

[ralpht]

Skool,
I've been preaching what you have written for a little while now. Thanks for the re-enforcement of a simple solution .

[sophisticated_soul]

Likely was meant to say..............Joseph, that works for me!

I know. It was just a pun, a little levity.

[juicefree20]

For my part, I never used to enter those threads very much because I knew what would happen.

The way that I deal with it is to skip over what I DON'T want to read & simply read what I DO want to read. I never place anyone on ignore because it's always good to know what's going on & as my feelings about all of that doesn't run that deep, it doesn't offend me as much as it could.

I've come to expect the arguments in those threads & most of us know that it usually happens. Because of that, we could avoid some of the problems. Another truth is that it takes two to tango & sometimes if a comeback reply wasn't offered, a lot of arguments wouldn't occur.

About 5 years ago, one of the biggest arguments occurred on this forum, not because people commented, but because people were angered that people REFUSED to respond. Finally, when some got fed up & finally responded, that's when a lot of crap hit the fan. I point this out to say that sometimes, if you simply don't give some people what they want, it could prevent a lot of problems. Also, by being smart enough not to reply, the person is left out there hanging by themselves looking like a troublemaker & & looking foolish.

The problem seems to be that people constantly fall for the bait & truthfully, when you're dealing with people who dislike one another so intensely, these things seem inevitable.
But why would anyone expect someone who dislikes someone enough to post negative things to stop, when even though they know how things will evolve, they cant even stop themselves from responding to the negative remarks, thus inflaming things further?

It seems to me that it's lesss about the group or artist[[s) & more about the dislike that the people posting have for one another & regardless of how nasty they all know that it will get, everyone wants to have the last word.

Last question...

What does the sound of one hand clapping sound like?

A lot of these arguments could be avoided if people would simply stop taking shots at one another. But since the inception of the Motown/Supremes section, this has been something that's never been done. I don't believe that some folks posting truly believe half of the negative stuff that they post. For them, I believe that they know that they'll be getting under the skin of someone by writing what they do & they know that the person is going to get mad & respond to it.

That's what I think all of this is about & if folks wouldn't let themselves get sucked into that game, it woud serve to do 2 things...

1. It would reduce a lot of the arguments as no one can argue without a willing partner. It would dilute their power.
2, It would leave them as the sole firestarter

How ridiculous would it make a person look if they were writing inflamatory things & no one responded? How can Ralph be expected to get in there & get into one person's butt when others join in the hostilities & more than that, seem to relish the hostile encounters?

Having viewed all of this as an outsider looking in for several years, I always believed that most of the participants were truly getting off on these arguments. I honestly believe that at this point, these arguments have nothing to do with the groups & everything to do with the dislike for one another that some of these folks share.

Naturally, I could be wrong!

[sophisticated_soul]

^^^Excellent post Juice. And IMHO, no you are not wrong. I think you are totally on point. And it's excellent advice too. I can't change the negativity on the Forum. But I can change the way I respond to it. And that's what I try to do. And consequently, I feel more and more comfortable posting.

[juicefree20]

Sophisticated_Soul

Thank you.

The funny thing is that even though I've gone a round or two with some participants over the years, I have no true dislike for any of them. Hell, one of them took some shots at me on their forum, but it doesn't stop me from responding to them cordially here because it just isn't that deep.

But i don't have the history that John Lester spoke about. Indeed some of these hostilities are around 15 years deep & when you consider that we're speaking about artists whom have given us a lot of joy & many of these discussions center around events which occurred between 50 to 30 years ago, that's too deep for me to be able to relate to.

Due to my age, I simply never connected with any particular individual of the majority of these groups. In the case of The Supremes, all that I know is that when I was a kid, though the spotlight shone a bit brighter on Diana, I focused on ALL of The Supremes. I never viewed any of them as a separate entity, but rather as the sum total of the parts. And no one else that I knew during those days single one of them out in such a way. Truthfully, if anyone, it was Mary who most of the folks that I knew gravitated toward. Granted, I have to admit that it was primarily the fellas who thought this way.

I have high regard for what those 3 young girls from Detroit accomplished & regardless of what may have happened in subsequent years, what those 3 ladies accomplished was nothing short of remarkable.

I'd rather remember them for that, rather than for whom did what to whom.

That story's been written & who can honestly say that had things happened differently, that the result for them as a unit would've worked out any differently than it did?

It's all conjecture & nothing that we say will undo history, nor the past.

[sophisticated_soul]

I have high regard for what those 3 young girls from Detroit accomplished & regardless of what may have happened in subsequent years, what those 3 ladies accomplished was nothing short of remarkable.

I'd rather remember them for that, rather than for whom did what to whom.

Again, Juice, you are totally on point. It's sad to me that the bickering prevents any actual discussion about the girls. And more importantly about the history they made. And not just their history, but their story in context of the times. Yes, they were remarkable, but even more than that, they were remarkable during remarkable times. They changed history. Older posters [[like myself) can offer the perspective of having lived the Supremes experience in real time, during those times. Younger poster, who only know the Supremes as a historical entity can offer that point of view. Yes, the Supremes made history, but what is their legacy now. How are they viewed historically? As an older poster my view of their legacy is always colored by my past experience with them. It would be interesting to me to know how folks view their legacy strickly from a historical perspective, without having lived the experience. But in such a discussion likely and sadly sooner or later someone will have to be "right" or "be the one that really knows". And then there is no more Supremes just egos and agendas.

[juicefree20]

Sophisticated_Soul

Thank you.

As I said, I was too young to be caught up in all of that. "Where Did Our Love Go" was released nearly a month before my 4th birthday. My age pretty much tells the fact that during their heyday, I was a little too young to be caught up wit any of the background drama, much less too young to understand any of it. A lot of that stuff really didn't come out until the 80s, by which time, it was no long that relevant to me anymore.

From reading books & the opinions of other people, I formed conclusions of my own. But truthfully, it wasn't until I got into this side of things & actually meeting performers & other industry people who were really there, that I began understanding that with all things, there are always 3 sides to any particular story. I also came to discover that a lot of what I'd read & a lot of what's been written, was not necessarily the way that things really happened.

Having no particular favorite & no nickel in that dime makes it a bit easier to separate myself from it all & to see all sides of the story. If I were to state the truth, I believe that it all boils down to the fact that mistakes were made on ALL sides of the fence. Some perhaps were more guilty that others, but to argue about events which occurred over 30 years ago, the results of which can never be reversed, well...it just wouldn't make sense for me to get myself worked up about that.

When I further consider that life has gone on & the fact that I need to be grounded in the here & now, in the real world of today, to me there's just too many critical issues for me to be concerned about, as our futures from a global perspective may be something that we can try to change for the better.

[sophisticated_soul]

Juice, what I really don't get, and you touched on this in your post, why can't folks just accept the fact that we are talking about human beings here. The things they did or didn't say or do or know are absolutely no different than the things we all do in our own day to day lives that become the sum total of our experience. We've all been angry, felt betrayed, loved, forgave, the whole gamut. But somehow because they are icons they are not allowed the full range of human emotion. They are not allowed the full range of the human experience, which we all individually cherish. That just doesn't make sense to me. Because they have lived their lives in public, we somehow reserve the right to judge what they have done and what the consequences of their actions should be. We weren't there, the few that actually were don't agree on what happened, but somehow we not only do, but we can also stand in judgement of their actions? "That does not compute. Danger, Will Robinson, danger".

[soulster]

The way that I deal with it is to skip over what I DON'T want to read & simply read what I DO want to read. I never place anyone on ignore because it's always good to know what's going on & as my feelings about all of that doesn't run that deep, it doesn't offend me as much as it could.

I normally skip over these Supremes threads too.

The reason I have two posters on ignore isn't because I have an issue with them, it's just my way of navigating around their inflammatory posts. I have one on ignore because that person isn't worth my time, as they do nothing but take pot shots. The reason I have one other poster on ignore is because...well, let's just say that individual appears to have "issues" that I will no longer deal with.


A lot of these arguments could be avoided if people would simply stop taking shots at one another.

Unfortunately, some people can't control themselves. That'e why they are being ignored by me.


For them, I believe that they know that they'll be getting under the skin of someone by writing what they do & they know that the person is going to get mad & respond to it.

Well, for one individual I ignore, I think they have some kind of sick ego thing going on, and are intolerant of different opinions.


That's what I think all of this is about & if folks wouldn't let themselves get sucked into that game, it woud serve to do 2 things...

1. It would reduce a lot of the arguments as no one can argue without a willing partner. It would dilute their power.
2, It would leave them as the sole firestarter

It works that way in theory, but in the real world, bullies will continue no matter what. If no one responds to them, they feel like they have complete freedom to post the bile unchecked. Bullies must always be dealt with.


How ridiculous would it make a person look if they were writing inflamatory things & no one responded?

But, bullies don't care about how they look to others. And not responding to them is nothing more than a silent sign of approval to them to continue their attacks. And, the fact that they are being ignored tells them that people are paying attention to what they post. Why? It takes a conscious effort to not respond to a person. That ignore feature helps. No one knows if they are on ignore unless you tell them. Not even Ralph knows who is ignoring whom.


Having viewed all of this as an outsider looking in for several years, I always believed that most of the participants were truly getting off on these arguments. I honestly believe that at this point, these arguments have nothing to do with the groups & everything to do with the dislike for one another that some of these folks share.

Of course! There is always some level of mutual dislike that fuels the rancor.

[soulster]

Juice, what I really don't get, and you touched on this in your post, why can't folks just accept the fact that we are talking about human beings here.

On the internet, all you see are words written by someone in cyberspace. It's very easy to forget that there are real, live human beings on the other end. That makes it all the easier to treat others on a message board like doo-doo on a stick. There are no faces attached to our posts [[BTW, where is that avatar feature? It's been almost a year!). Most of us here don't know each other personally, because most people prefer to keep themselves private. Most of us don't or can't even use our real names or exact locations out of fear and safety.

And, then, there are a lot of sociopaths in the world, and some on this forum.

[juicefree20]

Sophisticated_Soul

I really have no answers for that other than to say that's just the way of the world these days. I remember in my very early days here, I would make a few jokes here & there about celebrities or dog certain genres that I didn't much care for. But once I went to my first PBS special & met a guy like Denny Terrio, it changed my viewpoint. I absolutely hated his show, because I didn't view that depiction of the Disco scene to be realistic. I hated it then & I hate that show still. but when i met him & his son & saw how important that show was to him & how that boy looked at his dad, I decided there & then that I wouldn't be so free to make fun of any celebrity.

That show meant nothing to me & the truth is that show simply wasn't for me. If I didn't go looking to see a show that annoyed me, then I'd have had no reason to be annoyed. That show meant NOTHING to me, but it meant EVERYTHING to him. For that reason, I didn't & don't have the right to mock it because there's obviously a lot of people whom don't share my sentiments. I was wrong for doing that, so i stopped doing it.

Soulster:


Most of us here don't know each other personally, because most people prefer to keep themselves private. Most of us don't or can't even use our real names or exact locations out of fear and safety.

And that's EXACTLY why folks need to be careful what they say to folks over the internet. You just never know.

You may have been here back when we had a few fire-fights here. I said back then that folks would never dare to lie or say half of the nonsense that they did on a face-to-face level. I also said then that because of what some of us did, we'd see each other face-to-face & we'll see what folks have to say at that time. As predicted, quite a few of us have indeed seen each other face-to-face & just as I said, all of that bluster & ying-yang went out of the window, replaced by a lot of nervous smiles. If this had been some years ago, I'd likely have gotten in trouble because I know that my response would likely have been very different.

And that's why folks really need to shut the hell up & act as they would if the other party were sitting right next to them, because one day, they just might be.

I've heard many people here say that no one reads what goes on here, so, who cares. However, I've been at shows in different cities, where someone has walked up to me backstage & even though we'd never met, tell me exactly who I am, as well as things that i've said YEARS AGO on this very forum. Many of the people whom I've met, when I tell them my name, they automatically say "JUICE" & the words Soulful Detroit come immediately after that.

So, I'm not anonymous, nor could I ever be. I don't roll like that.

I prefer to be myself, try to avoid crap until it becomes apparent that it can't be avoided. I say what I have to say if I feel that I have to & I say what i believe. I also try to treat people as I'd want to be treated. In other words, despite my feelings, I try to act responsibly so that I don't have to feel like a coward who has to hide because of having a big mouth. So I don't have to come here & use any other name than my own. If I can't say something on a music forum without signing my own name to it, then I really shouldn't be saying it at all. Unless revealing state secrets or criminal behavior, there's nothing that I'm going to say on a music forum that should be so treacherous, that I should have to hide who I am.

Just because I CAN say something nasty, doesn't necessarily mean that I SHOULD say something nasty. Where I come from, hell, where just about all of us from, that's just a no-no because all of us are aware that trying to be a tough guy/gal can result in a hospital stay, or a major butt-kicking. Just as when we were in elementary school usually, the kids with the biggest mouths were usually the fastest ones to run to the dean when their mouths wrote a check that their butt couldn't cash.

And when I was a young kid, I wasn't one for doing a lot of talking. If messed with enough, back then I'd punch someone in the face & the ones who I'd usually jump on were the ones who had a big mouth & tried to bully kids who were scared of them. I'm not bragging about that, I'm just saying how things were. And just as some of my disputes here, most of my fights came while taking up for someone else. I simply hated bullies then & I dislike them even more so today.

In other words, I still haven't learned how to stop taking up other people's causes. However...I believe that last few years here have finally cured me of that malady & I tend to stay out of other people's affairs these days because I've come to learn that one usually gets burned for doing so.

A lesson well-learned & about 5 years too late. But that's alright. I guess better late than never!

[ralpht]

I must say, this has been a very interesting and intelligent conversation regarding a long time problem here on the forum. For my part, I get rid of trouble makers much faster than ever before. In the past there were those, no longer with us, that scathed me for some of these things I would do. "Zip, ban, delete" is what they called it. And I suppose at times, they are right on the money. But I challenge these folks to try and run a forum of this size without exercising a bit of martial law in order to keep the peace. From what I remember, these critics belonged to a now defunct off-shoot of SD where there was maybe three or four people participating. A much easier situation to deal with, for sure.

At any rate, thank you all for a very good discussion of this problem.

[tamla617]

this turned into a really good thread in the end.i've changed my mind to the seperate drats etc forum,after reading these posts.it wouldnt work and we'd lose some of the threads that are worth bothering with if was to end up in a "creepy crawly corner".
but these incubators of hate that the drats threads end up as must stop.i know thats what nearly everyone wants.
its also noticable that some people are missing from this thread,which is a drats thread and they're nowhere to be seen.

[ralpht]

Tamla,
Those that are missing have been permanently banned from this forum. I'll do the same for any other trouble makers. If that is "zip, ban, delete", then that's the way it goes. Peace shall prevail here.

[tamla617]

sounds good to me ralph,shame it gets to that.this is a good place to come to.

[ralpht]

I'll do my best to keep it that way, Tamla.

[tamla617]

i know,cheers

[soulster]

Members have a right to discuss DRATS, and all things related. I just ask that the volume of those threads be scaled back some.

As far as off-shoot forums are concerned, it seems every successful message board has a straggling bunch of malcontents that form, or find their own place to vent, Some of them wither away after a few months, and some become major meccas of vile hate speech directed towards the place that booted them out. If this place has such people, it is a sign of it's success. And, it's even more impressive if, say, Juice can go to a function and meet people who remember him and the things he posts.

As for banned members here, I really don't keep track of those who have been banned, but I do notice one or two who rarely post. But, for those people i've had issues with, I remember them like no tomorrow, how they treated me, and what they wrote about me. If I retaliated, it's only because I feel they had it coming. If you dish it out, be prepared to get it thrown back.

[ralpht]

Soul,
If you are faced with a problem involving someone without the good sense to be civil, let me dish it out.

[soulster]

Soul,
If you are faced with a problem involving someone without the good sense to be civil, let me dish it out.

I know I should. It's that my desire to have justice gets the best of me. It's my weak spot.

[sophisticated_soul]

I know I should. It's that my desire to have justice gets the best of me. It's my weak spot.

In my life experience, knowing my weakness' has very often proven to be one of my greatest strengths.:)

[arrr&bee]

there's been so many over the years, i'm wondering if there was one that stood out as being particularily memorable?yep,the one where they all get back together and ..and...and........and...opps silly me they don't!!!

[juicefree20]

Soulster:

I find it nice that people have recognized me for doing nothing more than what I've done here over the years. I'm just a guy with a camera who speaks up for those whom I believe in. I'm around entertainers on a regular basis, people whom I'd never dreamed of knowing, but I do. And while some have dramas of their own, the truth is that very few of them want to be around people who have constant drama or are way over-the-top.

My reality is that a lot of people know me. There are people who know me whom I don't even know & that's something to always keep in mind. Imagine how it would be to meet someone classy like our Russell Thompkins Jr. with him already having been warned to avoid you because you're a troublemaker or worse? And that was attempted, but fortunately, sometimes truth wins out in the end. Or imagine trying to get cooperation with promoters or artists who have heard that you dog their shows & everyone else & believing that for one second that you'll have a decent working relationship with them.

Now what I'm about to say isn't necessarily directed at anyone in this forum, as there are countless fans all over youtube, doing this very same thing, having these very same arguments with current groups.

A lot of these artists whom have fans that fight the way that some do here & most simply want nothing to do with this type of "fan". A person who's that obsessed is someone whom can make them VERY uncomfortable. Being a fan is one thing, being someone damn near old enough to be a great-grandparent who's still stuck back in 1973, always foaming at the mouth & fighting with people over some 20 year-old shit is an entirely different matter.

None of this sniping, back-biting & flaming folks is helping the object of their affection one iota. In fact, in some cases it's the fighting beween fans who keep opening old wounds, that prevents any possibility of reconciliation. None of these nasty words written nor constant fights are getting even one artist any gigs, record deals or shows. When all is said & done, that's what it's all about, being able to work & put food on their tables, so what's the point? And to be truthful, some may believe that they're scoring points with their favorite artist[[s) by acting this way. I can tell you that many of these over-the-top fans are just making themselves appear somewhat deranged to the artist & those handling them. Seriously, if you were an artist, would you trust anyone over the age of 13 who acts as some of these folks do? Some folks just take things too damn far.

Remember, John Lennon, Selena, Rebecca Schaffer were all killed by their "fans" & countless others have been stalked by them. So obsession is not necessarily appealing to these artists. Respect & appreciation...definitely. Total obssession...uhh, uhh!

As I've said, I've had more than my share of "wars" around here & I still have a temper. I still get mad & sometimes, would love to blast someone. HOWEVER...this forum has taught me something greater & that's to hold my head & to remain calm even when I really didn't want to.

The song goes "Give The People What They Want", but the truth is that sometimes it's best for one not to do that. The thing that gets me is that it's obvious that folks are trying to goad one another into blowing up. Despite that fact, folks seem to pulled into doing just that. The thing is that when you react as they want you to, you're giving them entirely too much power over you & even if you're right in striking back, in the end EVERYONE is tarred with the same silly brush & no one ends up looking too good. The primary difference is that folks cloaked in anonymity have nothing to lose, which is simply not the case for some of us.

I'm not suggesting that one should take all kinds of shots without eventually saying what needs to be said. But I am saying that I've learned & believe me, the archives have more than a few examples, that by ignoring people & not responding to EVERY slight, it helps quite a bit. I can also tell you [[and you won't find THIS in the archives) that when you refuse to respond as people are hoping that you will, that they'll eventually reveal themselves, because some people hate it when you don't respond as they believe that you will. And they'll try even harder & become even more desperate in their efforts to gain control over you via pushing your buttons.

And a strange thing happens...they get even angrier than you are because you WON'T give them the pleasure of letting them know just how pissed you really are. For someone of my temperment, it was a hard thing to learn how to do, but a lesson that's served me well. In a world where employers troll Facebook, Twitter & the like in order to see what employees or prospective employees are writing, thinking & doing, it's just easier to be responsible in what you post, than to have something that can come back to bite you documented on the www for all eternity.

There are people here who snipe at people, they lurk in the shadows, use fictitious names & aren't really around these artists that often, if at all. Think about it, for those whose intent is to simply DISCUSS music, why in the hell would anyone be afraid to use their OWN name? If your motives are pure & you're not planning to flame people or to stir shit, then what's the need for all of the anonymity?

THAT'S the real problem with internet forums...the fact that people can join up using fictitious names, then say all sorts of scurillous things about people with impunity & I believe that's cowardly as hell. There are indeed situations where I can understand needing to do so, like if someone's revealing things that really should be known. But for the constant dramas that we see, well, they don't fit into that category.

I do believe that if real people had to post using their REAL names, people wouldn't feel quite as free to act like or say the things that they do. But as one who's been through some pretty nasty arguments of my own, I will tell you that it's never good to allow someone to use you as their personal marionette. Anyone who can constantly push your buttons & make you play THEIR game, has got you right where they want you, they're manipulating you into dancing to their tune.

And that's simply giving too much power to folks who've done nothing to earn that kind of priviledge.

Keep your power bro, it makes the occasions when you have to blow off some steam a bit more effective.

[jobeterob]

A lot of these artists whom have fans that fight the way that some do here & most simply want nothing to do with this type of "fan". A person who's that obsessed is someone who can make them VERY uncomfortable. Being a fan is one thing, being someone damn near old enough to be a great-grandparent who's still stuck back in 1973, always foaming at the mouth & fighting with people over some 20 year-old shit is an entirely different matter. Some folks just take things too damn far.

I love that part of your post Juice. Good wording.

[smark21]

Tamla,
Those that are missing have been permanently banned from this forum. I'll do the same for any other trouble makers. If that is "zip, ban, delete", then that's the way it goes. Peace shall prevail here.

I certainly hope that going forward this policy will apply to any members who tell blatant lies or use the death of family members of posters here as weapons in flame wars.

[ralpht]

Smark,
I will be doing my very best to keep these types of trouble makers off of the forum.

[soulster]

What kind of sick individual would use a family member's death, anyone's death, for that matter, to lash out at someone else? That's got to be the lowest! Those kind of people don't need to be here, or anywhere, IMO.

[theboyfromxtown]

I prefer that real names are used too.

[juicefree20]

Soulster:

The very unfortunate incident[[s) that Smark is referring to did happen.

While sniping at another member in yet another music thread that regressed into yet another argument [[that had NOTING to do with the topic), one of our members responded to another member that THEIR OWN mother was sitting there dead, burned to a crisp, or some such thing. THAT member not only referenced THEIR OWN mother & her "death", but did so on several occasions. I couldn't believe my eyes when I read what had been written, I was shocked to read anyone write about their own mother in such a blase' manner, as though it were a big joke.

I didn't take them seriously, because although I've seen some pretty nasty stuff done on the internet, there's no way that I could believe that anyone would say such a thing about their own mother. I wouldn't joke about my mother in that manner, ESPECIALLY if she were gone & her ashes were sitting on my mantle.

But that's exactly what happened.

Even if what that person said had been true, do you think that for even one moment that someone using their OWN name would say something like that about their own mother on an internet forum? And if they did, exactly what would that be telling all of us?
The forumer whom had been addressed that way thought that Smark was someone whom had returned to the forum using another name & responded to Smark based upon what was said previously by this other member.

Unfortunately, Smark was unfairly caught in the crossfire. Although that's certainly no solace to Smark who certainly had & has the right to be upset & deeply offended, it happened because of a misunderstanding that originated with someone else. Because of the tendency banished folks to reemerge using another name, the forumer believed that Smark was that person. I don't know if Smark ever knew that, but that's how & why all of that nonsense happened & somehow, there has to be some kind of way to verify who's who & that they're just not using a dummy e-mail in order to return here & continue the hostilities.

And THAT'S why I hate these fake screen names & pseudonyms. If you truly come in peace, exactly what is the need for any other name than your own?

John Lester comes bearing his name, Ralph & Russ Terrana come bearing their names. Stephanie uses her name & so do quite a few others. And there are many of us whom while having screen names, are known & our names are no secret, nor do we hide who we are. And we're not running around telling people to go F themselves either, so, what's the common thread between us & what separates us from some folks who hide behind these names?

Acting civilly & responsibly, or at least making a damned good attempt to do so.

I was a forum virgin when I joined this forum back in late 2003. I had no idea that any of this kind of thing happened so regularly on the internet. When I walked through these doors, it wasn't to resume hostilities that began elsewhere. I came here to talk about music & to learn about music & artists whom I'd read about, but knew very little about.

Back then, I was under the impression that that's why we all were here. These days, I'm not so sure. Fortunately, the greater majority are here to laugh a little, actually DISCUSS music & our artists & to get a slight respite, if only for an hour or two, from a world filled with protests, rising gas & food prices & sometimes, sick relatives or illnesses of their own. Over the years, this place has come to mean a lot to many of us & we laugh & joke around here with people whom while never having met in person, have formed some very solid bonds & have found common ground & actually like one another.

It's sad to think that at times, so many of us have forgotten our original purpose for arriving here on Day One.

Perhaps we need to get back to that.

[smark21]

What kind of sick individual would use a family member's death, anyone's death, for that matter, to lash out at someone else? That's got to be the lowest! Those kind of people don't need to be here, or anywhere, IMO.

TopDiva went digging on the internet and found my mother's obit posted on the Columbus Dispatch website and used it to attack IconicPuff, who he thought was me, because IconicPuff had mentioned that his mother had died in January of this year. Among the offensive things TopDiva wrote were about how the room had to be disinfected after my mother died. I asked Ralph privately to delete a few threads [[Freddie Poole/3 Degrees threads) in which this was taking place. But TopDiva still persisted whenever IconicPuff got him angry so finally I laid out all the facts in the very long Diana Ross to appear on Oprah thread [[ I believe that thread is still around and I hope it hasn't been deleted. I've learned in the end it's not a wise decision to delete a thread if it does nothing to stop the bad behavior from persisting). Oddly enough, IconicPuff was thrown out of here, but not TopDiva. I won't pretend to understand why Ralph felt the need to keep TopDiva's membership active, but at least going forward I hope with the new policy in place and articulated on this thread that if TopDiva or anyone else resorts to such tactics that they will be shown the door.

[smark21]

Soulster:

The very unfortunate incident[[s) that Smark is referring to did happen.

While sniping at another member in yet another music thread that regressed into yet another argument [[that had NOTING to do with the topic), one of our members responded to another member that THEIR OWN mother was sitting there dead, burned to a crisp, or some such thing. THAT member not only referenced THEIR OWN mother & her "death", but did so on several occasions. I couldn't believe my eyes when I read what had been written, I was shocked to read anyone write about their own mother in such a blase' manner, as though it were a big joke.

I didn't take them seriously, because although I've seen some pretty nasty stuff done on the internet, there's no way that I could believe that anyone would say such a thing about their own mother. I wouldn't joke about my mother in that manner, ESPECIALLY if she were gone & her ashes were sitting on my mantle.

But that's exactly what happened.

Even if what that person said had been true, do you think that for even one moment that someone using their OWN name would say something like that about their own mother on an internet forum? And if they did, exactly what would that be telling all of us?
The forumer whom had been addressed that way thought that Smark was someone whom had returned to the forum using another name & responded to Smark based upon what was said previously by this other member.

Unfortunately, Smark was unfairly caught in the crossfire. Although that's certainly no solace to Smark who certainly had & has the right to be upset & deeply offended, it happened because of a misunderstanding that originated with someone else. Because of the tendency banished folks to reemerge using another name, the forumer believed that Smark was that person. I don't know if Smark ever knew that, but that's how & why all of that nonsense happened & somehow, there has to be some kind of way to verify who's who & that they're just not using a dummy e-mail in order to return here & continue the hostilities.

And THAT'S why I hate these fake screen names & pseudonyms. If you truly come in peace, exactly what is the need for any other name than your own?

John Lester comes bearing his name, Ralph & Russ Terrana come bearing their names. Stephanie uses her name & so do quite a few others. And there are many of us whom while having screen names, are known & our names are no secret, nor do we hide who we are. And we're not running around telling people to go F themselves either, so, what's the common thread between us & what separates us from some folks who hide behind these names?

Acting civilly & responsibly, or at least making a damned good attempt to do so.

I was a forum virgin when I joined this forum back in late 2003. I had no idea that any of this kind of thing happened so regularly on the internet. When I walked through these doors, it wasn't to resume hostilities that began elsewhere. I came here to talk about music & to learn about music & artists whom I'd read about, but knew very little about.

Back then, I was under the impression that that's why we all were here. These days, I'm not so sure. Fortunately, the greater majority are here to laugh a little, actually DISCUSS music & our artists & to get a slight respite, if only for an hour or two, from a world filled with protests, rising gas & food prices & sometimes, sick relatives or illnesses of their own. Over the years, this place has come to mean a lot to many of us & we laugh & joke around here with people whom while never having met in person, have formed some very solid bonds & have found common ground & actually like one another.

It's sad to think that at times, so many of us have forgotten our original purpose for arriving here on Day One.

Perhaps we need to get back to that.

JuiceFree, you missed the main point. While I found IconicPuff's descriptions of his own mother's death odd, I wasn't offended as he was speaking of his own mother, not mine. How one chooses to mourn is their own business. It became ugly when TopDiva made the assumption that I was IconicPuff and then went digging on the internet and started throwing details about my own mother's passing [[from what was gleamed on the internet) to go after IconicPuff. When my mother passed last February, I made it a point not to discuss it on internet forums as it was a personal matter and to see the event used in a flame war was very offensive and disturbing. One can find IconicPuff's attitude toward his mother's death off-putting, but what TopDiva did was disgusting. Yet, IconicPuff was thrown out of here while TopDiva is allowed to post here. And TopDiva has admittedly lied here as well [[claiming it was a "rouse" [[sic)) yet he continues to post. But again, Ralph has now stated that going forward, liars and people who dig up the deaths of members family members to use in flame wars will be zapped. If that happens, I hope he lives up to his promises and takes immediate action.

[ralpht]

Smark,
I did ban TopDiva but then noticed the name on the forum once again. I did a little investigating and saw the person had re-entered using another email addy. I banned that one also, and so far I haven't seen any return. And yes, I am going forward on getting rid of any and all trouble makers here much quicker than before.

[tamla617]

ralph
i'm sure you can block the IP address,you can't change that unless you move house or browse from work/friends etc.

[marv2]

ralph
i'm sure you can block the IP address,you can't change that unless you move house or browse from work/friends etc.

You are exactly right Tamla!!!

[soulster]

Well, I missed all that because I didn't read the Ross on Oprah thread, and I put both topdiva1 and miss_lish on my ignore list some time ago. I did that because I felt that they were the same person posting as two different people, and creating fake arguments with themselves for entertainment. Their posting styles were too similar, and they kept going at it. Now, if I am wrong, so be it. Oh well...

Confession-time: I did create double identities on another music forum looong ago, about ten years ago. That was because I was trying to change my identity, and wanted to phase out the old one that people had a problem with: would you believe it was because of my love of mono mixes??? Well, it made so many stereo lovers hostile that I decided to have some fun with it.

[tamla617]

soulster
i thought topdiva and msslish were one and the same too,and i mentioned it to another poster and he thought so to.
there's somebody else on here that i'm convinced is a re incarnation of someone banned or another "double"
and suprise,suprise an avid drats poster.
that mono mixes story was wierd and funny at the same time.i cant imagine how/why their brains work like that

[Roberta75]

soulster
i thought topdiva and msslish were one and the same too,and i mentioned it to another poster and he thought so to.
there's somebody else on here that i'm convinced is a re incarnation of someone banned or another "double"
and suprise,suprise an avid drats poster.
that mono mixes story was wierd and funny at the same time.i cant imagine how/why their brains work like that

topdiva and misslish are two entirely different people. topdiva is Tony Turner. misslish is her own person. For what it's worth I agree with banning topdiva but I don't think misslish should have been banned.

[Roberta75]

What kind of sick individual would use a family member's death, anyone's death, for that matter, to lash out at someone else? That's got to be the lowest! Those kind of people don't need to be here, or anywhere, IMO.

topdiva/Tony Turner did exactly that to smark21. And yes it was sick and lowdown but what can you expect from a proven liar.

May God forgive topdiva Turner.

[soulster]

soulster
i thought topdiva and msslish were one and the same too,and i mentioned it to another poster and he thought so to.
there's somebody else on here that i'm convinced is a re incarnation of someone banned or another "double"
and suprise,suprise an avid drats poster.

It was fairly obvious to me. And, what is wrong with these drats fans? I think Ralph called a moratorium on drats threads years ago, and I can see him doing it again to get them under control. But, I think his new problem is with all these dual posters who express sympathies with other dual-posters. They also make my suspicious.



that mono mixes story was wierd and funny at the same time.i cant imagine how/why their brains work like that

No shit! I actually got death threats over it! There are some deranged people out there...and I live in Arizona!

[Roberta75]

It was fairly obvious to me. And, what is wrong with these drats fans? I think Ralph called a moratorium on drats threads years ago, and I can see him doing it again to get them under control. But, I think his new problem is with all these dual posters who express sympathies with other dual-posters. They also make my suspicious.


I'm sorry but you are wrong on this one Soulster. topdiva is Tony Turner and misslish is someone else. That is the gospel truth.

[tamla617]

soulster
death threats? and over mono vs stereo? [[or anything really)
its beyond belief

[tamla617]

what happened to jonc and useyourchucklemuscle and gwcwc or something like that?

[soulster]

I'm sorry but you are wrong on this one Soulster. topdiva is Tony Turner and misslish is someone else. That is the gospel truth.

OK. To be honest, I still have no idea of who Tony Turner is or is supposed to be, nor do I really care.

[soulster]

soulster
death threats? and over mono vs stereo? [[or anything really)
its beyond belief

I'm not kidding, either! Some music lovers and audiophiles are the strangest bunch. You think Supremes fans are crazy?

[ralpht]

Tamla,
Those forum members were permanently banned.

[Roberta75]

OK. To be honest, I still have no idea of who Tony Turner is or is supposed to be, nor do I really care.

And that's fine Soulster but you can't say that topdiva and misslish are the same person when they are clearly not. Trust me when I say that topdiva is Tony Turner and almost everyone on this forum knows this.

[soulster]

Trust me when I say that topdiva is Tony Turner and almost everyone on this forum knows this.

Except for the ones who agreed with me. Oh well, it's not a problem as long as there is no more bickering between the two...accounts.

[marv2]

And that's fine Soulster but you can't say that topdiva and misslish are the same person when they are clearly not. Trust me when I say that topdiva is Tony Turner and almost everyone on this forum knows this.

I don't believe that, but if it were the case doesn't he have the right to be a member here and post comments without being personally attacked day in and day out?

[juicefree20]

Smark:

I totally agree that you should never have been caught in the middle of that nonsense, be it accidental or otherwise.

[juicefree20]

People posting using dual personalities here?

I don't know, I just can't wrap my head around that concept & it must take a very special person to be able to do that. I could never do that because I have a very distinct way of writing & ther's no way that I wouldn't eventually revert back to type. I have an alter-ego here as a joke & everyone knows that it's me. But doing it just to argue about music is just WAYYYY too deep for me to understand.

[tamla617]

juice
for dual personality read schizophrenia,either that or its the only way they can get "someone" to agree with them.
then find a like minded to do the same and all of a sudden someone has "4" posters against him/her.

[juicefree20]

Now here's another thing that I don't understand...

From what I've surmised, a lot of arguments have continued here over the issue of lying & questions regarding validity of statements made here & elsewhere. I honestly don't understand why anyone should become so worked up over a person who makes specious claims when folks already know that the person maight have tha tendency.

If someone says something that's proven to be a bit less than factual, why the need for constant fights about their credibility or lack thereof? We all know a few people who tell tall tales, hell some of the folks who do this may be family members or friends. Why not simply treat that person as we would that aunt/uncle or friend who always ends up drunk at a party or BBQ & tells us how they used to be a backup dancer for James Brown?

No one's taking that person seriously, so why spend so much energy getting angry with someone who does that here? If that's what they need to do in order to get through life here on Planet Earth, why go through all of that drama again...& again...& again...& again...& again...&...

So long as their tales don't harm anyone or has created a problem for any specific individual, then I really don't see what all of the ruckus is about. Seriously, if folks have already deduced that a individual is posting here incognito & is giving tidbits, then you're already ahead of the game because you know how to deal with them & most important of all, how to deal with them.

In the real world, most here would most likely either ignore such a person & simply avoid them. I can guarantee you the very few people here would engage in these hostilities over such inane bullshit, if standing face-to-face with that person. They wouldn't because it could lead to a fight, someone might get their butt kicked & behind such silliness, a fight nor a potential hospital visit simply isn't worth it, all because someone wants to prove a point...

A point that they & others already knew.

I guess that the best way to handle a situation such as that is to point out that what that individual has to say simply can't be trusted, then move on & let that revelation work its magic. But that never happens here. People continue to beat the same damn situation into the ground, constantly refer to the situation in threads which have absolutely nothing to do with the offense & I'd argue that THAT'S even more annoying than the initial lie. I feel that way because I've seen how constant referral to these offenses have destroyed a lot of threads which have been created by INNOCENT forum members, who then have to watch their threads go up in smoke because 5 or 6 people feel the need to bicker whenever or wherever their names happen to meet & have no respect for the forumer who created those threads.

And THAT'S unfair to the creator of the thread, as well as those who might actually want to discuss the thread, as well as those who may have something to learn from them.

[Roberta75]

I don't believe that, but if it were the case doesn't he have the right to be a member here and post comments without being personally attacked day in and day out?

Excuse me but topdiva Turner is the one who does the attacking, He has lied to boost his own popularity, relentlessly hurled around false details about someone's mother's passing which was both personal and painful to smark21. He shamelessly brings up Tony Turner [[who most know really is topdiva) in almost every thread and in general is mean and unpleasant.

BTW.......I thought you were placing me on ignore marv2?

[juicefree20]

I also believe that folks need to stop following one another through threads & referring to things which have nothing to do with the thread that they're commenting in. Society would classify such behavior as "stalking", but where I live, it's called "s&%t-stirring" & hen done in the real worls, it can often have severe consequences.

If "stalking" isn't tolerated in society, then it shouldn't be tolerated here, because it always leads to fights that are continually replayed like "Groundhog Day".

Something really has to be done about this constant unnecessary bickering & I guess that means getting it at the root. I've never been one for banning & I really don't understand how folks living in the world in which we live would allow themselves to be spooked off so badly by a few "bad" apples, that they feel the need to leave here. There's no way that I would leave here because of the arguments of 5 or 6 people which really has nothing to do with me. Seems a bit thin-skinned to me because the real world is a whole lot tougher than most things found here. Hell, I recently ran across a forum whose sole existence is to watch the forum that they once belonged to, then bash just about everyone in it & pretty viciously, at that.

I don't believe that we're quite that bad here.

My suggestion would be that if there's anyone here who continually stalks anyone in any thread & constantly calls someone out in a thread using nonsense & incidents which have nothing to do with that particular thread, then they should be gone. It's one thing to have a disagreement about something said within the scope of a thread, about the subject matter of THAT particular thread. But constantly dragging in crap & issues from other situations into threads that have nothing to do with it, is BAITING.

Point blank!

Although the person doing it feels that they're justified for doing so with the intent of sharing revelations, but the reality is that it's not the "liar" whom they're referring to who's creating a problem in that case, THEY'RE creating the problem by pursuing an argument which has no relation to the thread.

So, I guess that it comes down to agendas & who feels that their own agenda should take precedent over that of another.

Some of us have gone back & forth here for years. We get hot, we get pissed & then we move on & that's how it should be. But if there's anyone here so self-centered about pursuing their own argumentative agenda[[s) & too damn immature as to be able to reign themselves in, then they don't need to be here & deserved to be banned.

NO ONE should have a 6 year argument over the same damn thing & they need to do so, then they just need to do it somewhere else.

And we older folks constantly dog the kids for being stupid, out of control, disrespectful & damn near everything else negative under the sun, yet some of us can't even communicate on a MUSIC FORUM without acting like this.

And most of us are damn near grandparents, or over the age or 40 or 50.

What was that about the kids again?

[marv2]

Excuse me but topdiva Turner is the one who does the attacking, He has lied to boost his own popularity, relentlessly hurled around false details about someone's mother's passing which was both personal and painful to smark21. He shamelessly brings up Tony Turner [[who most know really is topdiva) in almost every thread and in general is mean and unpleasant.

BTW.......I thought you were placing me on ignore marv2?

Not quite yet since you have stopped reciting Holy Scripture here at least for the moment. Did you know that there is a feature here on the forum where you can click a button and all of an individuals postings, comments will show up in chronological order? Did you know that? It is very easy to illustrate what I was saying in regards to the "TopDiva" fights!

I've had to endure being questioned about MY 50th Motown Anniversary Special after explaining it was a subject that I was not authorized to discuss in a public forum, so one member decided to "ask me " about it virturally everyday for a couple of years regardless of what the subject matter was of the thread. Anyone else remember this?

I have recently been called a racist on this forum out of the blue, in a thread where I had not even posted a word.

Like Soulster mentioned, I have been threatened with great physical harm once while paying bills on AOL, I got a pop up instant message from an overzealous "Diana Ross" fan threating me and my family. I've seen it all. I know about trouble makers and people that come onto this forum with the sole motivation to disrupt it, slander those that do not agree with them and to attempt to ultimately destroy this forum by running people away that simply enjoy discussing music, memories and sharing stories etc.

I have had friends, some prominent, some just regular music loving folks that have read this forum and postings ask me "why are they saying that?" or "what does that person mean by this?" I have to spend time explaining the background for a lot of this BS that goes on to people that would otherwise join in the discussions here. I have seen a lot and have learned a lot over the 8 years I've been on this forum. Ralph does a GREAT job and he cannot be commended enough for that.

I've learned that whenever a forum member starts out by presenting themselves in a very specific way, i.e. discussing their "profession/job", "their family" and other personal information in order to build a "public character image" here that they are more than likely a "ringer" here to cause trouble and has only passing interest in the music or the artists that we discuss here. This just a small portion of my take on "what's happening today at SDF".

[marv2]

I also believe that folks need to stop following one another through threads & referring to things which have nothing to do with the thread that they're commenting in. Society would classify such behavior as "stalking", but where I live, it's called "s&%t-stirring" & hen done in the real worls, it can often have severe consequences.

If "stalking" isn't tolerated in society, then it shouldn't be tolerated here, because it always leads to fights that are continually replayed like "Groundhog Day".

Something really has to be done about this constant unnecessary bickering & I guess that means getting it at the root. I've never been one for banning & I really don't understand how folks living in the world in which we live would allow themselves to be spooked off so badly by a few "bad" apples, that they feel the need to leave here. There's no way that I would leave here because of the arguments of 5 or 6 people which really has nothing to do with me. Seems a bit thin-skinned to me because the real world is a whole lot tougher than most things found here. Hell, I recently ran across a forum whose sole existence is to watch the forum that they once belonged to, then bash just about everyone in it & pretty viciously, at that.

I don't believe that we're quite that bad here.

My suggestion would be that if there's anyone here who continually stalks anyone in any thread & constantly calls someone out in a thread using nonsense & incidents which have nothing to do with that particular thread, then they should be gone. It's one thing to have a disagreement about something said within the scope of a thread, about the subject matter of THAT particular thread. But constantly dragging in crap & issues from other situations into threads that have nothing to do with it, is BAITING.

Point blank!

Although the person doing it feels that they're justified for doing so with the intent of sharing revelations, but the reality is that it's not the "liar" whom they're referring to who's creating a problem in that case, THEY'RE creating the problem by pursuing an argument which has no relation to the thread.

So, I guess that it comes down to agendas & who feels that their own agenda should take precedent over that of another.

Some of us have gone back & forth here for years. We get hot, we get pissed & then we move on & that's how it should be. But if there's anyone here so self-centered about pursuing their own argumentative agenda[[s) & too damn immature as to be able to reign themselves in, then they don't need to be here & deserved to be banned.

NO ONE should have a 6 year argument over the same damn thing & they need to do so, then they just need to do it somewhere else.

And we older folks constantly dog the kids for being stupid, out of control, disrespectful & damn near everything else negative under the sun, yet some of us can't even communicate on a MUSIC FORUM without acting like this.

And most of us are damn near grandparents, or over the age or 40 or 50.

What was that about the kids again?

The "Groundhog's Day" comparison is so right on! Especially when I relate it to my basically being stalked around the forum by a former member here about "MY 50th Motown Anniversary Special" and attempts to slander me by trying to portray me as a liar! This was all from someone I have never met, does not know me and has no professional or personal right to any of my business. This went on and on and on for a very long time. In the REAL World, this person would have been lying on their back coughing up teeth, but since this is cyberspace and people have the ability to talk sheet from behind the safety of their computers they do it often and with confidence that there will be no repercussions.

[Roberta75]

Not quite yet since you have stopped reciting Holy Scripture here at least for the moment. Did you know that there is a feature here on the forum where you can click a button and all of an individuals postings, comments will show up in chronological order? Did you know that? It is very easy to illustrate what I was saying in regards to the "TopDiva" fights!

I've had to endure being questioned about MY 50th Motown Anniversary Special after explaining it was a subject that I was not authorized to discuss in a public forum, so one member decided to "ask me " about it virturally everyday for a couple of years regardless of what the subject matter was of the thread. Anyone else remember this?

I have recently been called a racist on this forum out of the blue, in a thread where I had not even posted a word.

Like Soulster mentioned, I have been threatened with great physical harm once while paying bills on AOL, I got a pop up instant message from an overzealous "Diana Ross" threating me and my family. I've seen it all. I know about trouble makers and people that come onto this forum with the sole motivation to disrupt it, slander those that do not agree with them and to attempt to ultimately destroy this forum by running people away that simply enjoy discussing music, memories and sharing stories etc.

I have had friends, some prominent, some just regular music loving folks that have read this forum and postings ask me "why are they saying that?" or "what does that person mean by this?" I have to spend time explaining the background for a lot of this BS that goes on to people that would otherwise join in the discussions here. I have seen a lot and have learned a lot over the 8 years I've been on this forum. Ralph does a GREAT job and he cannot be commended enough for that.

I've learned that whenever a forum member starts out by presenting themselves in a very specific way, i.e. discussing their "professional/job", "their family" and other personal information in order to build a "public character image" here that they are more than likely a "ringer" here to cause trouble and has only passing interest in the music or the artist that we discuss here. This just a small portion of my take on "what's happening today at SDF".

And while you are certainly entitled to you own opinions marv2. I respectfully request that you place me on ignore. I know nothing about your past specials or your threats on aol, but based on my time here I can see that you can sling mud with the best of them. In saying that I wish you good health and peace.

[juicefree20]

Roberta...

I've already acknowledge that what was done to Smark was wrong & I doubt that anyone would disagree with that. As regards his/her "attacks" on people, that pendulum has swung both way & if anyone chooses to be honest, then they'll have to admit that as well.


Excuse me but topdiva Turner is the one who does the attacking, He has lied to boost his own popularity

If in fact you know that TopDiva was/is Tony Turner [[how, I really don't know), then who cares whether he lies to boost his own popularity? Why is that so important & more than that, why is it so important that it should turn every topic of discussion into World War III?

People are dying in wars, food & gas prices are about to break our bank accounts, people are floating down their streets in canoes, but we should worry on an internet music forum about whether TopDiva, Tony Turner or a basket weaver is lying in order to be a big fish HERE?

Were you ever upset because we were told that Michael Jackson was 9 when he was actually 11? Were you ever upset because the press releases didn't credit Bobby Taylor nor Gladys Knight for discovering The Jackson 5? If lying to boost ones popularity iis the standard for disliking people, then I guess that we'd all better prepare to start burning a whole lot of records & renounce some of our heroes because books, interviews & articles have made it quite clear that a WHOLE LOT of lying & stretching of truth occurred in the entertainment field.

As I know none of the participants on a personal level, I'm more concerned about the fairness of ALL parties. With that said & I'm not trying to be funny, but as a Christian, what have you done to help to heal the situation?

[Roberta75]

Roberta...

I've already acknowledge that what was done to Smark was wrong & I doubt that anyone would disagree with that. As regards his/her "attacks" on people, that pendulum has swung both way & if anyone chooses to be honest, then they'll have to admit that as well.



If in fact you know that TopDiva was/is Tony Turner [[how, I really don't know), then who cares whether he lies to boost his own popularity? Why is that so important & more than that, why is it so important that it should turn every topic of discussion into World War III?

People are dying in wars, food & gas prices are about to break our bank accounts, people are floating down their streets canoes, but we should worry on an internet music forum whether TopDiva, Tony Turner or a basket weaver is lying in order to be a big fish HERE?

Were you ever upset because we were told that Michael Jackson was 9 when he was actually 11? Were you ever upset because the press releases didn't credit Bobby Taylor nor Gladys Knight for discovering The Jackson 5? If lying to boost ones popularity iis the standard for disliking people, then I guess that we'd all better prepare to start burning a whole lot of records & renounce some of our heroes because books, interviews & articles have made it quite clear that a WHOLE LOT of lying & stretching of truth occurred in the entertainment field.

As I know none of the participants on a personal level, I'm more concerned about the fairness of ALL parties. With that said & I'm not trying to be funny, but as a Christian, what have you done to help to heal the situation?

I have offered prayers and words from the bible which is greatest book ever written in my opinion. Lying and stretching
the truth is sinful in the entertainment business, the coal mining business and every other business for that matter.
I happen to believe and live by the following words "To thine own self be true."

Thank you.

Roberta.

[tamla617]

abandoned post!!
that's a 1st
i was going to say something that didnt come out right

[Roberta75]

got another name
one less than a trinity

If you are addressing me sir, then your sarcasm is uncalled for.

[tamla617]

that post was in existence for less than a minute because i abandoned it see post#111
amazed anyone saw it.why did you say addressing you? i wasnt.

[Roberta75]

that post was in existence for less than a minute because i abandoned it see post#111
amazed anyone saw it.why did you say addressing you? i wasnt.

Then I send you my heartfelt apologies. Please forgive me.

Roberta.

[marv2]

abandoned post!!
that's a 1st
i was going to say something that didnt come out right

Awww..... Think about it and come back! hehehehehehe!

[tamla617]

marv
thought about it................................................ ..............................its 11.20 here i gotta start pushing the zzzzzzz's
out! i'll see about it in the daylight!

[marv2]

marv
thought about it................................................ ..............................its 11.20 here i gotta start pushing the zzzzzzz's
out! i'll see about it in the daylight!

You go and get you some sleep. It'll wait. See ya!

Marv

[luke]

You go Juice!! Thanks for your sanity and wisdom!!

[marv2]

You go Juice!! Thanks for your sanity and wisdom!!

He told it, didn't it he? !!!!!!!!!

[juicefree20]

Roberta:

I don't know how long you've been a member here, perhaps you've been here before, or have lurked for awhile.

Me, I'm going on 7 years here & I've seen folks come, seen folks go & have had my share of disagreements wtih various folks for reasons similar to this, about common decency & respect. To me, it simply comes back to the matter of the same old arguments being endlessly replayed. Arguments, which didn't originate here.

As I said, I don't know TopDiva, don't know Tony Turner, don't know who's who, who's here under a new name & save one, have never met any of the usual participants. What I do know is that the 3 or 4 years of nonsensical fights that INNOCENT forumers have had to wade through , having had their threads demolished, CAN BE avoided. They're UNNECESSARY & it's more about people & their own egos. At this point, it's not so much about their love for their favorite Supreme[[s), but more about their intense dislike for ONE ANOTHER. And once again trampling over all that's decent, this behavior played itself out here recently in a memorial thread for Gladys Horton.

When people are so myopic that they can't reign themselves in & show just a little respect in a memorial thread, then to me they're no better than the "liars" whom they're against. After all, if they can point out how the other party is so crass & undignified as to misbehave, then it means that obviously knowing better, they should hold themselves to a higher standard than they would persons whom they regard as common "trash".

Let's be truthful, in the brick & mortar world, do you honestly believe that any of this would be playing out as it does here? In the real world, this wouldn't be happening because someone would've gotten beat-down or killed by now. No one would tolerate this nonsense on a daily basis & inevitably, someone would get hurt. That's the real world. In the real world, no one's going to go at one another as they feel free to do here. For 5 YEARS OR MORE??

The truth is that this has been going on for quite awhile, both sides gives as good as they take & I've come to the conclusion that some actually enjoy beating up on one another. I may be wrong, but it sure appears as though that's how it is. Why would anyone expend so much energy going at one another for any prolonged period of time unless they felt as though they were getting something out of doing so?

Most of us are quick to point out what others have done wrong, while somehow overlooking our own contributions. If we're to be truthful, then we can't say that we're helping cool things down if we follow someone into a thread, then call them a liar or ask them a provocative question which alludes to a lie that they told, in a thread that has nothing to do with that lie.

But just the other day, you did just that to TopDiva. And you did so on a few other occasions as well. It was already established that TopDiva had been caught in a lie, it was stated, restated & people had every right to say whatever they said about it & you'll notice that where before I offered a benefit of the doubt, once you guys got on his/her case, I said nothing further about it. He eventually apologized & I moved on.

You had to know that by calling him out in a different thread & alluding to his "ruse", that you'd receive a negative response in return, thus escalating hostilities. When you do that, you can't sit back speaking about an "attack" because you did something to provoke the attack. I don't condone what he/she did, especially the "trickery" part. But I can't hold him more acountable for his wrongs, than I would that of others.

Lying is wrong, but provocation is wrong as well. You can't toss a rock at someone, then complain about being attacked. I've been reading most of what's been going on, even read some before it was deleted & the blame for all of this is shared by both sides of the fence. And whatever hasn't been deleted from threads or from the archives will certainly prove that.

[Roberta75]

Roberta:

I don't know how long you've been a member here, perhaps you've been here before, or have lurked for awhile.

Me, I'm going on 7 years here & I've seen folks come, seen folks go & have had my share of disagreements wtih various folks for reasons similar to this, about common decency & respect. To me, it simply comes back to the matter of the same old arguments being endlessly replayed. Arguments, which didn't originate here.

As I said, I don't know TopDiva, don't know Tony Turner, don't know who's who, who's here under a new name & save one, have never met any of the usual participants. What I do know is that the 3 or 4 years of nonsensical fights that INNOCENT forumers have had to wade through , having had their threads demolished, CAN BE avoided. They're UNNECESSARY & it's more about people & their own egos. At this point, it's not so much about their love for their favorite Supreme[[s), but more about their intense dislike for ONE ANOTHER. And once again trampling over all that's decent, this behavior played itself out here recently in a memorial thread for Gladys Horton.

When people are so myopic that they can't reign themselves in & show just a little respect in a memorial thread, then to me they're no better than the "liars" whom they're against. After all, if they can point out how the other party is so crass & undignified as to misbehave, then it means that obviously knowing better, they should hold themselves to a higher standard than they would persons whom they regard as common "trash".

Let's be truthful, in the brick & mortar world, do you honestly believe that any of this would be playing out as it does here? In the real world, this wouldn't be happening because someone would've gotten beat-down or killed by now. No one would tolerate this nonsense on a daily basis & inevitably, someone would get hurt. That's the real world. In the real world, no one's going to go at one another as they feel free to do here. For 5 YEARS OR MORE??

The truth is that this has been going on for quite awhile, both sides gives as good as they take & I've come to the conclusion that some actually enjoy beating up on one another. I may be wrong, but it sure appears as that's how it is. Why would anyone expend so much energy going at one another for any prolonged period of time unless they felt as though they were getting something out of doing so?

Most of us are quick to point out what others have done wrong, while somehow overlooking our own contributions. If we're to be truthfull, then we can't say that we're helping cool things down if we follow someone into a thread, then call them a liar or ask them a provocative question which alludes to a lie that they told, in a thread that has nothing to do with that lie.

But just the other day, you did just that to TopDiva. And you did so on a few other occasions as well. It was already established that TopDiva had been caught in a lie, it was stated, restated & people had every right to say whatever they said about it & you'll notice that where before I offered a benefit of the doubt, once you guys got on his/her case, I said nothing further about it. He eventually apologized & I moved on.

You had to know that by calling him out in a different thread & alluding to his "ruse", that you'd receive a negative response in return, thus escalating hostilities. When you do that, you can't sit back speaking about an "attack" because you did something to provoke the attack. I don't condone what he/she did, especially the "trickery" part. But I can't hold him more acountable for his wrongs, than I would that of others.

Lying is wrong, but provocation is wrong as well. You can't toss a rock at someone, then complain about being attacked. I've been reading most of what's been going on, even read some before it was deleted & the blame for all of this is shared by both sides of the fence. And whatever hasn't been deleted from threads or from the archives will certainly prove that.

But it wasn't a ruse juice. it was a deliberate lie. Now I think we've all given topdiva Turner far more attention than she deserves and that includes you. Again I say To Thine Own Self Be True.

[smark21]

Smark,
I did ban TopDiva but then noticed the name on the forum once again. I did a little investigating and saw the person had re-entered using another email addy. I banned that one also, and so far I haven't seen any return. And yes, I am going forward on getting rid of any and all trouble makers here much quicker than before.

I don't know all the mechanics behind the scenes here, but Topdiva was never banned here. Never did I see the word "banned" under his name. Now perhaps you banned someone named "Topdiva" because the one who made the attacks has the user name "TopDiva1", not "TopDiva" so perhaps someone else is "TopDiva" [[who never posts) and they were banned as you confused the two identies? I know membership here is based on email so if one is banned, and they feel the need to rejoin, they have to rejoin under a new user name and their post number starts at zero. If you look at the number of posts Topdiva1 has made, you will see it's well over one thousand. Somehow, I don't think TopDiva1 has put up over a thousand posts in the past few weeks. If there is a log of banned members that you can consult as owner/moderator here, I suggest you consult it and see if you might have banned someone else by mistake. Because as far as I can tell, TopDiva1 was never banned here. And if indeed the wrong person was banned, I hope that going forward you will strive to be very careful and accurate when removing a member.

BTW, Miss Lish and TopDiva1 are not the same person. I know Miss Lish and she has nothing but contempt for TopDiva1. Miss Lish did use to post here as Divalish, but never as TopDiva or TopDiva1.

As for who TopDiva1 may really be, it doesn't really matter. TopDiva1 has no credibility with members here except for the most gullible amongst us. And at this point, I really don't care if you ban TopDiva1 for his antics re: my mother's death. If it had to be done, it should have been done while it was going down. I just hope that going forward you will keep to your word that you will no longer put up with riff raff and remove those who lie or engage in gutter tactics when engaged in disagreement and debate.

[juicefree20]

Roberta & Smark;

Points well taken!

[Roberta75]

Roberta & Smark;

Points well taken!

Thank you juice.

Regards,

Roberta.

[juicefree20]

Roberta:

Anytime at all.

All of the best!

[juicefree20]

Luke & Marv:

Thank you both.

As an outsider & somewhat casual observer who's a bit detached & have no emotions invested in this, I'm just trying to see this from both sides & explaining how others whom are not involved in these things might see them.

I've no favorites & simply wish that folks could get along & if not, simply leave one another along because these fights have proven nothing, nor have they solved a thing.

I guess that i'm just hoping for better.

[soulster]

My head is spinning...

[arrr&bee]

HEY VOICE I LOVE THIS[SUPREMES]STUFF,IT'S PRICELESS IT'S THE THREAD THAT NEVER ENDS[Jai will you stop snooping in this]I'M NOT SNOOPING I'M A GROUPIE,HEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHE!!!