Top Billing For Diana Ross On The Supremes’ Psychedelic ‘Reflections’

[milven]

It was this week in 1967 that the Supremes debuted as Diana Ross & the Supremes with REFLECTIONS, with a psychedelic intro. [[I remember Diana describing the sound as mechanical in a blue box set where all the artists' intro'd their songs with a little story.) This article also says that HDH happened to overhear Russ Terrana using a tone generator to tune the studio. It inspired them to put its “bleeping” oscillator effect onto the intro of the already brooding and experimental ‘Reflections.’

Flo was on the record, but no longer in the group when it was released. The song would have gone to number one, but some guy jumped off the Tallahassee bridge and Reflections stalled at Number 2

https://www.udiscovermusic.com/stories/diana-ross-supremes-psychedelic-reflections/

[reese]

It was this week in 1967 that the Supremes debuted as Diana Ross & the Supremes with REFLECTIONS, with a psychedelic intro. [[I remember Diana describing the sound as mechanical in a blue box set where all the artists' intro'd their songs with a little story.) This article also says that HDH happened to overhear Russ Terrana using a tone generator to tune the studio. It inspired them to put its “bleeping” oscillator effect onto the intro of the already brooding and experimental ‘Reflections.’

Flo was on the record, but no longer in the group when it was released. The song would have gone to number one, but some guy jumped off the Tallahassee bridge and Reflections stalled at Number 2

https://www.udiscovermusic.com/stories/diana-ross-supremes-psychedelic-reflections/

Actually it was Mary who did the intro for REFLECTIONS on THE MOTOWN STORY. She said something about the writers being influenced by the Beatles and said it was "a weird, weird song."

[milven]

Actually it was Mary who did the intro for REFLECTIONS on THE MOTOWN STORY. She said something about the writers being influenced by the Beatles and said it was "a weird, weird song."

You are right. Every new day seems to bring me closer to senility. In my mind, I thought it was Diana, but it is on You Tube and it is Mary who says "mechanical". Thanks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtSzTw6eZDw

[sup_fan]

Also there is speculation as to whether or not it’s Flo on the record

[bradsupremes]

Also there is speculation as to whether or not it’s Flo on the record

This has been discussed before. The article is wrong in stating Flo is on "Reflections." She's not. It's Mary and Marlene Barrow. It's very obvious when you isolate the vocals.

[TheMotownManiac]

You are right. Every new day seems to bring me closer to senility. In my mind, I thought it was Diana, but it is on You Tube and it is Mary who says "mechanical". Thanks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtSzTw6eZDw

When you completely reach senility, have the desk buzz me and I will show you around… The best part is people don’t expect so much, the worst part is you start confusing diana ross and mary wilson!

[TheMotownManiac]

This has been discussed before. The article is wrong in stating Flo is on "Reflections." She's not. It's Mary and Marlene Barrow. It's very obvious when you isolate the vocals.

initially, in Soul Magazine 1967, it was stated Flo is on the song but i’ll Be damned if I hear her. I don’t miss Flo on you can’t hurry love, but I absolutely cannot stand the background vocals on reflection because she’s not on there…… It needs her voice badly. Mary and Flo were the best, Mary and Marlene were great but, ultimately no one can replace Mary & Flo as has been beaten to death here. This record, to me, suffers horribly because the heaviness of Marlene’s voice muddies Mary’s thick, rich velvet. There’s no one to cut through and, In my opinion, that’s A contributing factor as to why it didn’t get to number one.

[144man]

When you completely reach senility, have the desk buzz me and I will show you around… The best part is people don’t expect so much, the worst part is you start confusing diana ross and mary wilson!

I could never confuse Diana Wilson and Mary Ross:confused:

[milven]

When you completely reach senility, have the desk buzz me and I will show you around… The best part is people don’t expect so much, the worst part is you start confusing diana ross and mary wilson!

Well, if I confused Diana with Mary, I guess I better have the desk buzz you now. :confused::)

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSq2Z_v7WRBRqBqTy_oTZAkQBuuyqRlv YVGtBbnch99KA8Z-gzr

[floyjoy678]

For those of you on here who are in touch with Mary, have any of you asked her about who's on Reflections and You Can't Hurry Love. I find it odd that it's only outsiders speculation and none of the people directly involved have never said anything about it.

[bradsupremes]

For those of you on here who are in touch with Mary, have any of you asked her about who's on Reflections and You Can't Hurry Love. I find it odd that it's only outsiders speculation and none of the people directly involved have never said anything about it.

Mary will never publicly admit Flo isn't on "You Can't Hurry Love" and "Reflections," two of their biggest hits, but then again she may not fully remember. She'll assume it's Flo because those tracks were cut when she was still in the group.

The answer lies on the tape. The soprano is not Flo.

[luke]

Didn’t Flo recall recording Reflections and knew all the words when it was released?

[PeaceNHarmony]

Psychedelic. And, a psychotic reaction from some fans that continues to this day.

[floyjoy678]

Psychedelic. And, a psychotic reaction from some fans that continues to this day.

I needed a good laugh. Thank you.

[marv2]

Didn’t Flo recall recording Reflections and knew all the words when it was released?

Yes, she was even witnessed singing along to it note by note.

[marv2]

For those of you on here who are in touch with Mary, have any of you asked her about who's on Reflections and You Can't Hurry Love. I find it odd that it's only outsiders speculation and none of the people directly involved have never said anything about it.

In her book "Dreamgirl, My Life As A Supreme", Mary said that the only two hits that she and Florence were not on were "Love Child" and "Someday We'll Be Together". Those two songs were also the only ones mentioned in her lawsuit with Motown.

[khansperac]

Weren’t pictures of Florence on the original design of the album cover? If so, then she must have been still recording up to that point. Anyone know the recording dates and the date she left the group?

[marv2]

Weren’t pictures of Florence on the original design of the album cover? If so, then she must have been still recording up to that point. Anyone know the recording dates and the date she left the group?

The song was recorded on March 2 and May 9, 1967. Florence was in the group until July 1, 1967.

[milven]

The album had Flo on the cover when it was first released. I may have even had that album, but a few years later, I replaced all my mono Supremes with stereo.

In another thread, I half-jokingly said that I am going senile. So I am not trusting my memory so I just checked Wikipedia and found this:

the album cover included three photos with Ballard but it was quickly replaced with the cover featuring just Ross, Wilson and Birdsong. A photo of the original album cover can be found on Motown 45 rpm promotional sleeves issued in early 1968

[milven]

Can anyone tell if this is the original cover with Flo? I can't tell

https://lefflersantiques.com/wp-content/uploads/imported/0/Motown-665-Diana-Ross-And-The-Supremes-Reflections-Vinyl-LP-Stereo-1968-N-Mint-263417605650.jpg

[marv2]

The album had Flo on the cover when it was first released. I may have even had that album, but a few years later, I replaced all my mono Supremes with stereo.

In another thread, I half-jokingly said that I am going senile. So I am not trusting my memory so I just checked Wikipedia and found this:

the album cover included three photos with Ballard but it was quickly replaced with the cover featuring just Ross, Wilson and Birdsong. A photo of the original album cover can be found on Motown 45 rpm promotional sleeves issued in early 1968

I held the actually original album cover mock up for "Reflections" in my hands at Hitsville way back in 1986. They took scissors and cut Flo out of the pictures of the Supremes prior to Cindy Birdsong joining. They actually used stencils and no.2 pencils to draw out that kaleidoscope you see on the finished printed album cover. They glued the photos onto the cardboard before sending it to the printers.

[reese]

Can anyone tell if this is the original cover with Flo? I can't tell

https://lefflersantiques.com/wp-content/uploads/imported/0/Motown-665-Diana-Ross-And-The-Supremes-Reflections-Vinyl-LP-Stereo-1968-N-Mint-263417605650.jpg

No. There are no Flo photos on this cover. Some of the photos here did have Flo in them, but she was cropped out.

[bradsupremes]

"Reflections" band track was cut March 2, 1967. In that same session, HDH cut "The Happening" and an unused "In And Out Of Love" track. Diana, Mary & Marlene added their vocals to "Reflections" on May 9th.

People need to remember this. The weeks leading up to early May were incredibly shaky for Flo. She had missed several performances causing Marlene Barrow to step in and then Cindy at the Hollywood Bowl. There was the meeting at Gordy's mansion. Maybe she didn't want to be part of the session or maybe she wasn't told about it. Maybe Gordy excluded her as punishment. Who knows? But for whatever reasons, Flo is not on "Reflections." You have some people who will take Mary's word that she was there. You also have Louvain Demps say the Andantes recorded the backgrounds. The two narratives contradict the other. As I said earlier, the answer lies on the tape. I will take the actual tangible, audible proof. She's not there.

[marv2]

I don't know what Louvain Demps is talking about,but this is Mary Wilson on this record loud and clear. I will only believe Mary Wilson.......because she was there!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRjCqaX2IvQ

[marv2]

For years people swore that Florence was not on "My World Is Empty Without You" and that it was Marlene Barrow singing back up with Mary Wilson. That was not true at all. It is Florence Ballard and Mary Wilson alone on the background. You can even hear Flo say "Let's hear that back" at the end of the song here:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=4&v=jKZMijnB2ws

[Ollie9]

The background vocals other then on the No 1's is so minimal i don't think it matters who was singing background quite frankly. It's all about the song itself and Diana's voice. Her voice sounds far more mature then on any other Supremes single up to that point. If the song is strong, receives decent airplay and you have a great lead vocalist, as on "Love Child" the song will be a hit regardless of who is supplying the ooohs and ahhhhs.........imo

[144man]

I've listened and listened and tried as hard as I can, but I just don't have the ability to definitively identify the individual voices of the backing singers.

[PeaceNHarmony]

The background vocals other then on the No 1's is so minimal i don't think it matters who was singing background quite frankly. It's all about the song itself and Diana's voice. Her voice sounds far more mature then on any other Supremes single up to that point. If the song is strong, receives decent airplay and you have a great lead vocalist, as on "Love Child" the song will be a hit regardless of who is supplying the ooohs and ahhhhs.........imoUnfortunate but very true. We all would have preferred that M & F had sustained through and after Diana's departure [[even though we LOVE Cindy!) but that didn't happen and as we have learned the backgrounds were as often as not, not M, F, or C. Just the way it is.

[floyjoy678]

It even almost sounds like Mary is doing both the top and bottom harmony on Reflections. They don't sound too good overall on the song whoever's doing them. I'm sure it had to do with the fact that they weren't sure of the group's fate at this point. They were able to get Flo back for Sullivan and the Copa but I believe at this point they weren't sure how much further she'd be willing to go.

I'm still not completely convinced Flo isn't on You Can't Hurry Love [[and Misery).

[drlorne]

"Every new day seems to bring me closer to senility." I love this. Except it's my husband who says it to me. :)

[RanRan79]

I've listened and listened and tried as hard as I can, but I just don't have the ability to definitively identify the individual voices of the backing singers.

To my ears on the #1s collection it's definitely Mary. Sounds like Florence, particularly after Diana sings "all the tears that I've tasted, all in vain..." and the background comes in with what is indecipherable lyrics to me, that sounds like Florence. I would not be shocked to learn that it's Marlene, however.

I'll wait on further information from the guys with the goods when the Reflections expanded is released. I generally trust their word. To Marv's point he's right, for many years "My World Is Empty" was credited to Mary and an Andante. As far as I can tell that info hit the streets via JRandyT's CHMR, and it's very possible that he was relayed information that mixed up "My World" with "Hurry Love". Still, because the backgrounds on the original version of "My World" were so mixed in with the orchestra, everybody ran with it as fact until the guys with the goods produced the elevated backing vocals to the song on the Symphony expanded edition, hopefully teaching us all the lesson of not believing everything you read.

Regarding Ollie's point, ultimately the enjoyment of any Supremes song shouldn't hinge on who is in the background or not. And I think to most fans of the group the enjoyment of any particular song is unaffected by rumors or confirmed revelations of who or who isn't in the background. However, as a huge Florence Ballard fan, I do want people to be careful with her legacy. If she isn't on a song, it is what it is. But if she's there and people are screaming that she isn't, that someone is diminishing Florence's work and her contribution to the group [[some unintentional, others intentionally so), as it would to any singer, group or solo, who is being erased from credit for a song.

I've seen internet debates about Diana Ross not singing lead on "Let Me Go the Right Way". Lets pretend that it comes out that it somehow wasn't Ross, for fans of "Right Way" this knowledge should change nothing as far as song enjoyment. Of course in reality we know it was Diana, so to suggests that it isn't her is a discredit, even if we would still dig the song anyway.

So I get the point that is often made in this forum ad nauseam that Diana's lead is the key to what makes a particular song so enjoyable, but I think credit should be given where it's due even if you think the credit isn't important. So until the guys with the masters and notes within reach confirm who it is, I'll stick to crediting the song to Diana Ross, Mary Wilson and Florence Ballard. Anything else is internet gossip as far as I'm concerned.

[luke]

Well said. As Mary and Flo being 2 Supremes and have said they both had sung on Reflections .I think I will listen to to them...duh. We all love the records. But it’s nice to know if the Supremes were singing on their records. Beatles fans thought they knew who were on the records...not Stu Suthcliffe, Andy White, etc etc. Hello???

[bradsupremes]

The answer is on the tape. When you have audible proof, all word and hearsay doesn’t have weight. The fact is it is Diana, Mary & Marlene on “Reflections,” “You Can’t Hurry Love,” and a handful of other recordings. I stand by that fact because the tape backs me up.

[marv2]

Does anyone know what Marlene Barrow sounds like? I don't know.

[floyjoy678]

Did anyone notice how drastically Flo's voice had changed during this period in '67? It definitely was not the same, strong soprano from 1965. I wonder had she continued in the group, would she have been able to continue taking the top harmony.

[bradsupremes]

Does anyone know what Marlene Barrow sounds like? I don't know.

I do. She sings the intro on PJ’s “T.L.C. [[Tender Lovin’ Care)” and she’s the prominent soprano on the Supremes’ version of “His Love Makes Me Beautiful.”

[marv2]

I do. She sings the intro on PJ’s “T.L.C. [[Tender Lovin’ Care)” and she’s the prominent soprano on the Supremes’ version of “His Love Makes Me Beautiful.”

Could those recordings be any more obscure?

[marv2]

Did anyone notice how drastically Flo's voice had changed during this period in '67? It definitely was not the same, strong soprano from 1965. I wonder had she continued in the group, would she have been able to continue taking the top harmony.

She was smoking. They all smoked.

[blackguy69]

Do you think her voice dramatically change?
She was smoking. They all smoked.

[blackguy69]

Marv this is one argument you’re going to loose
Could those recordings be any more obscure?

[vgalindo]

To my ears on the #1s collection it's definitely Mary. Sounds like Florence, particularly after Diana sings "all the tears that I've tasted, all in vain..." and the background comes in with what is indecipherable lyrics to me, that sounds like Florence. I would not be shocked to learn that it's Marlene, however.

I'll wait on further information from the guys with the goods when the Reflections expanded is released. I generally trust their word. To Marv's point he's right, for many years "My World Is Empty" was credited to Mary and an Andante. As far as I can tell that info hit the streets via JRandyT's CHMR, and it's very possible that he was relayed information that mixed up "My World" with "Hurry Love". Still, because the backgrounds on the original version of "My World" were so mixed in with the orchestra, everybody ran with it as fact until the guys with the goods produced the elevated backing vocals to the song on the Symphony expanded edition, hopefully teaching us all the lesson of not believing everything you read.

Regarding Ollie's point, ultimately the enjoyment of any Supremes song shouldn't hinge on who is in the background or not. And I think to most fans of the group the enjoyment of any particular song is unaffected by rumors or confirmed revelations of who or who isn't in the background. However, as a huge Florence Ballard fan, I do want people to be careful with her legacy. If she isn't on a song, it is what it is. But if she's there and people are screaming that she isn't, that someone is diminishing Florence's work and her contribution to the group [[some unintentional, others intentionally so), as it would to any singer, group or solo, who is being erased from credit for a song.

I've seen internet debates about Diana Ross not singing lead on "Let Me Go the Right Way". Lets pretend that it comes out that it somehow wasn't Ross, for fans of "Right Way" this knowledge should change nothing as far as song enjoyment. Of course in reality we know it was Diana, so to suggests that it isn't her is a discredit, even if we would still dig the song anyway.

So I get the point that is often made in this forum ad nauseam that Diana's lead is the key to what makes a particular song so enjoyable, but I think credit should be given where it's due even if you think the credit isn't important. So until the guys with the masters and notes within reach confirm who it is, I'll stick to crediting the song to Diana Ross, Mary Wilson and Florence Ballard. Anything else is internet gossip as far as I'm concerned.
Well the guys who do the expanded editions George and Andy stated a few years ago that Mary and Florence were not on the single release of “Stop in the name of love”. There were people on this forum that said they were lying and didn’t believe them. The guys said it made fans upset and they would not be revealing any new information on who was on the backgrounds. I think it is quite sad that some fans don’t want the truth. It doesn’t change the fact that these are great classic records no matter who was doing the background.

[floyjoy678]

The thing with "Stop!" Is it was changed quite a few times as to who was on the song. I asked Louvain Demps myself on two occasions back in the Yahoo group days and she said the Andantes are on the song but with Mary and Florence and I'll go by what she says.

[marv2]

Do you think her voice dramatically change?

Not really. She did not use her higher range on her ABC recordings, but her voice did not really changed until later on in the 70s according to folks that knew her.

[marv2]

Marv this is one argument you’re going to loose

What argument? I'm not arguing about anything. What are you talking about?

[marv2]

The thing with "Stop!" Is it was changed quite a few times as to who was on the song. I asked Louvain Demps myself on two occasions back in the Yahoo group days and she said the Andantes are on the song but with Mary and Florence and I'll go by what she says.

That is what it was. Mary has said that she and Florence are on "Stop In the Name of Love". She just doesn't know what can of worms she opened when she mentioned in her book, "Dreamgirl, My Life As A Supreme" that she was not on Love Child and Someday. I had never heard of the Andantes until Mary's book. Now you have guys questioning every song they recorded trying to convince people that the Andantes are singing and not the Supremes. LOL!

[George Solomon]

I'm going to jump in for a minute. [[And hope I don't regret it) The fact is Mary and Flo sang the first version of "Stop" with no augmentation. The second [[released) version features Mary, Florence and the Andantes. Some parts they're all singing together. Some parts it's just Mary and Flo and some parts it's just Andantes. If you listen carefully you can break it down.

[marv2]

I'm going to jump in for a minute. [[And hope I don't regret it) The fact is Mary and Flo sang the first version of "Stop" with no augmentation. The second [[released) version features Mary, Florence and the Andantes. Some parts they're all singing together. Some parts it's just Mary and Flo and some parts it's just Andantes. If you listen carefully you can break it down.

Thank you George!

[thanxal]

I'm going to jump in for a minute. [[And hope I don't regret it) The fact is Mary and Flo sang the first version of "Stop" with no augmentation. The second [[released) version features Mary, Florence and the Andantes. Some parts they're all singing together. Some parts it's just Mary and Flo and some parts it's just Andantes. If you listen carefully you can break it down.
Thank you George. [[and yes you probably will regret it).

[RanRan79]

The answer is on the tape. When you have audible proof, all word and hearsay doesn’t have weight. The fact is it is Diana, Mary & Marlene on “Reflections,” “You Can’t Hurry Love,” and a handful of other recordings. I stand by that fact because the tape backs me up.

I'm confused Brad. What tape are you talking about? Do you mean cassette tape or are you using "tape" as in the music, the record, the audio period? I don't want to respond without a full understanding.

[RanRan79]

Does anyone know what Marlene Barrow sounds like? I don't know.

My understanding is that she's the top harmony in the Andantes. Her voice does have similar sound to Florence's.

[RanRan79]

Did anyone notice how drastically Flo's voice had changed during this period in '67? It definitely was not the same, strong soprano from 1965. I wonder had she continued in the group, would she have been able to continue taking the top harmony.

I wouldn't call it drastic, but there was definitely a change. My theory is that Florence wasn't a natural soprano anyway. She could certainly sing it- and sing it well- but her natural voice was not that high. It's possible that there may have been some damage or wear and tear on her voice that became noticeable in 1967. Diana underwent a similar period a year or two later where her voice is noticeably raspy. I imagine Diana was given proper attention to this, while Florence unfortunately was not.

[RanRan79]

Well the guys who do the expanded editions George and Andy stated a few years ago that Mary and Florence were not on the single release of “Stop in the name of love”. There were people on this forum that said they were lying and didn’t believe them. The guys said it made fans upset and they would not be revealing any new information on who was on the backgrounds. I think it is quite sad that some fans don’t want the truth. It doesn’t change the fact that these are great classic records no matter who was doing the background.

Yet apparently they broke that rule when they told us Flo was indeed on "My World" but she wasn't on some tracks during the A Go Go sessions. While I do think some fans need to check themselves and not get so riled up by something so trivial in our lives, part of the problem is what I stated in my post that you replied to: there are people who make it a point to belittle, discredit and marginalize Flo and Mary's contributions to the group. Some do it because they love Diana and apparently are insecure in her indisputable contributions to the group, while others do it because they enjoy the reaction they get from others. And as a result, some fans become a tad bit too intense in asserting Flo and Mary's legacies. For historical purposes I love the truth, whether Flo and/or Mary are present or absent. But I prefer factual information and not...and I really hesitate to use this but here I go...fake news.

[RanRan79]

That is what it was. Mary has said that she and Florence are on "Stop In the Name of Love". She just doesn't know what can of worms she opened when she mentioned in her book, "Dreamgirl, My Life As A Supreme" that she was not on Love Child and Someday. I had never heard of the Andantes until Mary's book. Now you have guys questioning every song they recorded trying to convince people that the Andantes are singing and not the Supremes. LOL!

To Mary's credit she could've easily bypassed the Andantes and never mentioned them. But I'm glad she was truthful. Like it or not, the Andantes are a part- albeit a small part- of the story of the Supremes. Not to mention it was also good for the ladies to get credit. They were too good to stay a secret. Of course I am not to be fooled into thinking that was solely why Mary brought the Andantes up. Replacing factual Supremes with anonymous background singers in the studio makes for an even more dramatic read.

[RanRan79]

I'm going to jump in for a minute. [[And hope I don't regret it) The fact is Mary and Flo sang the first version of "Stop" with no augmentation. The second [[released) version features Mary, Florence and the Andantes. Some parts they're all singing together. Some parts it's just Mary and Flo and some parts it's just Andantes. If you listen carefully you can break it down.

George I can't speak for anyone else, but for me, your post is going down in my mind as the facts as it pertains to "Stop In the Name of Love". Case closed.

[bradsupremes]

I'm confused Brad. What tape are you talking about? Do you mean cassette tape or are you using "tape" as in the music, the record, the audio period? I don't want to respond without a full understanding.

The master tape. The one that was rolling as it recorded the song. The answer is on that multitrack master tape. Isolate the background and you'll hear it.

[marv2]

Well the guys who do the expanded editions George and Andy stated a few years ago that Mary and Florence were not on the single release of “Stop in the name of love”. There were people on this forum that said they were lying and didn’t believe them. The guys said it made fans upset and they would not be revealing any new information on who was on the backgrounds. I think it is quite sad that some fans don’t want the truth. It doesn’t change the fact that these are great classic records no matter who was doing the background.

Well ALL of the Supremes are on the released version of "Stop In the Name of Love". The Andantes sang some of the background WITH Mary Wilson and Florence Ballard! Are we done yet?

[marv2]

Here are Mary, Diana and Cindy the song live and they sound great!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0HE7TC8y5g

[milven]

Here are Mary, Diana and Cindy sing the song live and they sound great!

Even Diana ? ;);)

[floyjoy678]

I always liked the live versions of Reflections better than the recording, particularly the Farewell performance of the song. It was quite a bittersweet song, given all the changes that were going on at the time with the group. Coincidence? Probably.

[marv2]

I always liked the live versions of Reflections better than the recording, particularly the Farewell performance of the song. It was quite a bittersweet song, given all the changes that were going on at the time with the group. Coincidence? Probably.
The live versions were better in my opinion also.

[RanRan79]

The master tape. The one that was rolling as it recorded the song. The answer is on that multitrack master tape. Isolate the background and you'll hear it.

Thanks for the clarification. I was like what does he mean the tape?:D

Well I don't have the master so I can only go by the audio I have access to, and me thinks it's Flo but find it possible that it might be Marlene. When the guys with the goods say yea or nay officially, so will it be in my book of Supremes facts, in the way I have officially labeled "Stop In the Name of Love", the girls' fourth #1 hit, as the Supremes with the Andantes.

Btw, you can expect my book of Supremes facts to hit the streets on the 34th of January next year. Taking preorders soon.:p

[RanRan79]

Well ALL of the Supremes are on the released version of "Stop In the Name of Love". The Andantes sang some of the background WITH Mary Wilson and Florence Ballard! Are we done yet?

I'll be surprised if you hear any more about it. Folks were rolling over in their makeshift graves as soon as George posted that.:rolleyes:

[RanRan79]

Even Diana ? ;);)

Don't push it. He referred to her as Diana. That's a miracle in itself.:p

[vgalindo]

Well ALL of the Supremes are on the released version of "Stop In the Name of Love". The Andantes sang some of the background WITH Mary Wilson and Florence Ballard! Are we done yet?
Yes Marv. We are done. I will always take George’s and Andy’s word. But what has never been in question is the lead of Diana Ross! Lol

[thanxal]

Yes Marv. We are done. I will always take George’s and Andy’s word. But what has never been in question is the lead of Diana Ross! Lol
I thought the Andantes were on lead. I can clearly hear them.

[marv2]

I'll be surprised if you hear any more about it. Folks were rolling over in their makeshift graves as soon as George posted that.:rolleyes:

I don't know why some people don't want Mary Wilson and Florence Ballard to be on their own records. Records they recorded over 50 years ago! LOL! Crazy, crazy, crazy.......

[jobeterob]

I’m away a lot in the summer but I was shocked to see this thread is all about the Andantes again

I don’t see it as such a big deal - the Andantes are on a lot of Motown songs; the Supremes are still the Supremes and performed all the songs in concert

The Flos carved out a career and so did Mary

I Don’t know why 4 fans can’t ever hear the Andantes on any song, even when Brad saw the Master tapes with certain names on it !

[marv2]

I’m away a lot in the summer but I was shocked to see this thread is all about the Andantes again

I don’t see it as such a big deal - the Andantes are on a lot of Motown songs; the Supremes are still the Supremes and performed all the songs in concert

The Flos carved out a career and so did Mary

I Don’t know why 4 fans can’t ever hear the Andantes on any song, even when Brad saw the Master tapes with certain names on it !

You were the one for a very long time going on and on and on about how the Andantes were on the released version of "Stop In The Name of Love" and not Mary and Florence. Go away again. Summer is not over yet!

[marv2]

https://soulfuldetroit.com/showthread.php?17786-Supremes-My-World-is-Empty-Without-You-Changed


Quote Originally Posted by jobeterob View Post
Nothing is confirmed with anyone on those records; not even by those that think they were there. The producers put on whomever they wanted which is why Mary and Florence sang on Stop in the Name of Love but are not on the version that released as the single.

Sorry Marv; all the wishin and hopin and tweets about lyin ain't gonna change it - just like for Donald.

Like I said in the other thread. It's been confirmed AGAIN that Mary Wilson and Florence Ballard are on the released version of this song [["Stop In the Name of Love") and that you were the one that keeps wishin and hopin that they are not for some reason. Go back to sleep or back to wherever the Hell you were. LOL!

[jobeterob]

It’s not a story anymore

The Andantes are on countless Supremes recordings

You spend time every time it comes up for each song -you say they are not on Reflections, not on You Can’t Hurry Live, not Reflections, not the Christmas album - even though people far more knowledgeable than you say they are

It’s not like the we’re playing with young boys like Michael Jackson; oh right you don’t like that history either

You don’t like that Berry got wealthy

Whine whine whine; why so much unhappiness? Motown accomplished so much despite your constant naysaying to everything - including the Andantes being on Supremes songs. Go ask Louvain - she was there not you. Go ask Brad who’s seen master tapes

[marv2]

It’s not a story anymore

The Andantes are on countless Supremes recordings

You spend time every time it comes up for each song -you say they are not on Reflections, not on You Can’t Hurry Live, not Reflections, not the Christmas album - even though people far more knowledgeable than you say they are

It’s not like the we’re playing with young boys like Michael Jackson; oh right you don’t like that history either

You don’t like that Berry got wealthy

Whine whine whine; why so much unhappiness? Motown accomplished so much despite your constant naysaying to everything - including the Andantes being on Supremes songs. Go ask Louvain - she was there not you. Go ask Brad who’s seen master tapes

I just enjoy showing how much you lie........

[vgalindo]

I just enjoy showing how much you lie........
Rob is not lying. We were told this by Andy:


The Supremes story is a very complicated one, and when discussing who sang on which records, it is sensitive not only to the Supremes, but to the Andantes, and to the fans. What we report may be loved by many, and in some situations, may not be popular, but it is always important that we tell the truth. Our motivation is that of preserving the Supremes legacy, not diminishing it. If we report a kind word about one Supreme, Mary, Flo or Diana, it is often misconstrued as a slap to the other two ladies. On any project I work on, I can assure you that this is not, and will never be the case. I support them, and I love them, both professionally and personally.

There’s a recent thread about what songs are Tammi Terrell, and what songs are Valerie Simpson. The thread is long and the argument is interesting, but the truth can be found in the research, and in listening to the isolated vocals on the multi-tracks. However, the answers we could give, in the Tammi scenario, in the Supremes scenario, or in other artists scenarios may not be what fans want to hear. I’d rather tell the truth, for myself, and for an accurate history, than to be popular. And at the end of the day, all I can do is present the facts, even if they are conflicting, and if there is no clear answer, the listener can be the judge. Sometimes we have an answer, sometimes we don’t.

The Supremes/Andantes situation does exist, but it has absolutely been blown out of proportion. The Supremes background vocals by Mary and Flo, are on most of their records leading up to Flo’s departure. But there are some they are not on, pure and simple. Mary Wilson has acknowledged this, Florence Ballard in interviews acknowledged this, Diana Ross has acknowledged this.

As one learns the Supremes voices, it becomes more clear when you hear them. Once you learn the Andantes voices, the picture comes right into focus. And if you’re lucky enough to see the Motown session logs and tape cards, or get to hear the isolated vocals, there becomes no doubt when you hear the Supremes, the Andantes, or both.

When I am asked, I often give fans one example to listen to. There are many, but here is my favorite one. Listen to the Supremes version of “Fancy Passes” [[issued on Never-Before-Released-Masters and the same version is the bonus track version issued on There’s A Place For Us). Mary and Flo have a spoken passage. If you know their voices from this song, you’ll also know that when you hear the same spoken passage in the Barbara McNair version, that those girls are the Andantes. Listen to the same parts, learn the two different sets of vocals. Now go listen to other Supremes songs you may have in question.

Stop! In The Name Of Love is the latest hot topic, so I’ll acknowledge it here. Listen to the alternate from disc 2 of More Hits, also in a different mix on the box set. Now listen to the live versions on At The Copa, or the video from the Hollywood Palace. They are all consistent. Now listen to the released “hit” version. The voice you are hearing, is Jackie Hicks. Go back to McNair’s Fancy Passes, you’ll hear Jackie there. You’ll hear her on Run Run Run. But you’ll also hear her clearly on Ask The Lonely by the Four Tops, I Heard It Through The Grapevine by Marvin Gaye and dozens of other non-Supremes songs

I’m sure that regardless of what I could say, some will argue forever. I respect everyone’s opinions. But, it is what it is. More importantly, this is not the first time this information has been suggested, discussed or challenged. Nor will it be the last. I can only confirm what I know.

This does not, and will not tarnish the Supremes reputation as the greatest female group of all-time. The roads they paved for others must be acknowledged and respected. What they accomplished has never been duplicated.

I’ll save the discussion about every other Supremes song for another day. If they weren’t on a particular song, well, it is what it is. They’re still on literally hundreds of other songs. Mary Wilson is still singing these hits today, Diana Ross is still singing this hits today. Diana and Mary’s legacies separately, and together as the Supremes, with Florence [[and Cindy, respectfully) will last long after we’re all gone. I personally love them, they are incredible women. The people I work with love them too, as I know all of you do as well. I have nothing but love and respect for each of these ladies, for all nine of them actually, and will continue to support what they did, and continue to do. I hope you will also.

[jobeterob]

Thanks for reposting

[PeaceNHarmony]

Rob is not lying. We were told this by Andy:Yes, thanks! I had not seen this post - let's hope that ... certain posters ... read and understand this, especially the final 5 words: I have nothing but love and respect for each of these ladies, for all nine of them actually, and will continue to support what they did, and continue to do. I hope you will also.

[RanRan79]

But what has never been in question is the lead of Diana Ross! Lol

Well there is that ridiculous "Let Me Go the Right Way" argument, so I wouldn't etch this one in stone.:p But for true fans yes, there is no questioning the unmistakable voice of Diana Ross.

[RanRan79]

I Don’t know why 4 fans can’t ever hear the Andantes on any song, even when Brad saw the Master tapes with certain names on it !

As someone in the thread who is not willing to concede to Brad's "revelation" I assume I'm one of the 4 you're referencing and I call bullshit. Let's get the most important issue out of the way first: who the hell is Brad? I don't know him. I don't know anything about him outside of this forum. I consider him very knowledgeable about the Supremes because much of what he posts in the forum makes sense and I give him the same amount of respect I give others who chime in on the Supremes with information that often makes sense. But as far as I know Brad could be a fat loser who pretends to be any given Supreme on the makeshift stage he built in his basement, performing to imaginary crowds that only he can see, and then coming into the forum to pretend to be an authority on the group. Until he takes his masters, forms a contractual union with Universal, and starts releasing expanded editions with detailed notes and trivia, his voice is an opinion to me. The only authority I recognize in this forum regarding who is on what comes from George, Andy or Keith who I know for a fact has access to the kinds of information that makes them an authority. Hopefully Brad doesn't take offense to any of this as it is not my intention to insult him. But again: I Don't Know Brad or anything about him other than his screen name. And as my grandmother would say, Brad's mouth aint no prayer book.

And as for your accusation that I can't ever hear the Andantes on any song, I refer you to the thread "The Supremes In the Background" I created last year [[or the year before) regarding the "accounting" I detailed of the 60s Supremes thus released work and who is singing on what. Trust me, the Andantes were very much present. Well you don't have to trust me, you can check the thread for yourself. Thanks!

[RanRan79]

Rob is not lying. We were told this by Andy:

Thanks for reposting this V. I wasn't around for this so this is my first time seeing it. A couple of things stand out to me.

"If we report a kind word about one Supreme, Mary, Flo or Diana, it is often misconstrued as a slap to the other two ladies."

That's so damn sad, but also so very true. I see that all of the time in this forum, especially whenever people say positive things about Florence and/or Mary. It's like some take it as some slap in the face that someone other than Diana Ross gets some praise around here. Idiotic.

"I’d rather tell the truth, for myself, and for an accurate history, than to be popular. And at the end of the day, all I can do is present the facts, even if they are conflicting, and if there is no clear answer, the listener can be the judge. Sometimes we have an answer, sometimes we don’t."

That's how I feel about the entire subject, as I said earlier in the thread. Give me the truth. If Flo and/or Mary are present or absent, I still want the facts. And it makes sense that there will be times when who is present is more ambiguous than other times, so yeah, like Andy says, as the listener I'll judge for myself.

"The Supremes/Andantes situation does exist, but it has absolutely been blown out of proportion. The Supremes background vocals by Mary and Flo, are on most of their records leading up to Flo’s departure."

Blown out of proportion, he says. But you wouldn't know that by some of the posts in the forum by specific people who, as one very recently stated, believe that the Andantes are present more often than not. Andy seems to be of the opinion- backed up by evidence- that it's the other way around. But of course I will not look for the sentiments of others to change course.

"Stop! In The Name Of Love is the latest hot topic, so I’ll acknowledge it here. Listen to the alternate from disc 2 of More Hits, also in a different mix on the box set. Now listen to the live versions on At The Copa, or the video from the Hollywood Palace. They are all consistent. Now listen to the released “hit” version. The voice you are hearing, is Jackie Hicks. Go back to McNair’s Fancy Passes, you’ll hear Jackie there. You’ll hear her on Run Run Run."

Finally, I can definitely see how this statement confused things. Compare this with what George says and this paragraph leads to the question of whether Andy is implying that the Andantes completely replaced the Supremes or if he is saying what George is saying, which is that the two groups are on the song together. And if his point was to say they are together, perhaps some eager to have this to throw around for digs at Flo and Mary took it and ran with it as the song is Diana and the Andantes, because he definitely doesn't come right out with "On Stop In the Name of Love, the voices you hear are the Andantes, not Flo and Mary". Whatever the case, I definitely have a better understanding of how this particular controversy exploded.

But it's dead now as far as I'm concerned.

[jobeterob]

Ran Ran -I never thought of you being in the group that never wants to hear the Andantes

I do think this issue is overblown; 10 years ago this was news; today it’s not news anymore

Brad’s a younger super fan who’s helped Mary some and been in the vaults and seen notes on master tapes - I understand

[khansperac]

[/COLOR]That's so damn sad, but also so very true. I see that all of the time in this forum, especially whenever people say positive things about Florence and/or Mary. It's like some take it as some slap in the face that someone other than Diana Ross gets some praise

IMO this began years back when some folks on this forum would try to Downplay Diana’s importance to the group saying things like they only like and listened to the background. How the lead singer of the group was a non factor because after all, anyone could have sung those songs and had a hit. They claimed to just love the often muffled, barely audible background voices. Fast forward to when these revelations surfaced. They were understandably upset that what they propped up as being so important was fake news. The truth of the matter is that Diana Ross fans were not concerned about this at all. Diana was a legend with an incredible career. Doesn’t bother them at all if others get praise. Can the same be said about the other Supremes fans?

[vgalindo]

IMO this began years back when some folks on this forum would try to Downplay Diana’s importance to the group saying things like they only like and listened to the background. How the lead singer of the group was a non factor because after all, anyone could have sung those songs and had a hit. They claimed to just love the often muffled, barely audible background voices. Fast forward to when these revelations surfaced. They were understandably upset that what they propped up as being so important was fake news. The truth of the matter is that Diana Ross fans were not concerned about this at all. Diana was a legend with an incredible career. Doesn’t bother them at all if others get praise. Can the same be said about the other Supremes fans?

Yes. I remember that. I was so confused and thought it was really silly that there were Supremes fans that said they only listened to the background.

[vgalindo]

Thanks for reposting this V. I wasn't around for this so this is my first time seeing it. A couple of things stand out to me.

"If we report a kind word about one Supreme, Mary, Flo or Diana, it is often misconstrued as a slap to the other two ladies."

That's so damn sad, but also so very true. I see that all of the time in this forum, especially whenever people say positive things about Florence and/or Mary. It's like some take it as some slap in the face that someone other than Diana Ross gets some praise around here. Idiotic.

"I’d rather tell the truth, for myself, and for an accurate history, than to be popular. And at the end of the day, all I can do is present the facts, even if they are conflicting, and if there is no clear answer, the listener can be the judge. Sometimes we have an answer, sometimes we don’t."

That's how I feel about the entire subject, as I said earlier in the thread. Give me the truth. If Flo and/or Mary are present or absent, I still want the facts. And it makes sense that there will be times when who is present is more ambiguous than other times, so yeah, like Andy says, as the listener I'll judge for myself.

"The Supremes/Andantes situation does exist, but it has absolutely been blown out of proportion. The Supremes background vocals by Mary and Flo, are on most of their records leading up to Flo’s departure."

Blown out of proportion, he says. But you wouldn't know that by some of the posts in the forum by specific people who, as one very recently stated, believe that the Andantes are present more often than not. Andy seems to be of the opinion- backed up by evidence- that it's the other way around. But of course I will not look for the sentiments of others to change course.

"Stop! In The Name Of Love is the latest hot topic, so I’ll acknowledge it here. Listen to the alternate from disc 2 of More Hits, also in a different mix on the box set. Now listen to the live versions on At The Copa, or the video from the Hollywood Palace. They are all consistent. Now listen to the released “hit” version. The voice you are hearing, is Jackie Hicks. Go back to McNair’s Fancy Passes, you’ll hear Jackie there. You’ll hear her on Run Run Run."

Finally, I can definitely see how this statement confused things. Compare this with what George says and this paragraph leads to the question of whether Andy is implying that the Andantes completely replaced the Supremes or if he is saying what George is saying, which is that the two groups are on the song together. And if his point was to say they are together, perhaps some eager to have this to throw around for digs at Flo and Mary took it and ran with it as the song is Diana and the Andantes, because he definitely doesn't come right out with "On Stop In the Name of Love, the voices you hear are the Andantes, not Flo and Mary". Whatever the case, I definitely have a better understanding of how this particular controversy exploded.

But it's dead now as far as I'm concerned.

This is not the statement that confused things. This statement was after the fact. When some fans got really upset after hearing that Florence and Mary were not on the released 45 record. This was said on the Nightflight show with John Perrone. They were promoting the new expanded edition. I don’t have the exact quote. It was so long ago. But if my memory serves me right it was said that Mary and Florence were not on the 45 single release. But I’ll go by what George is saying now.
But who cares. I love all the versions.

[floyjoy678]

I enjoy the backgrounds as much as I enjoy Diana's lead. There's songs where the backgrounds are an important factor of that song [[Come See About Me, Stop, Nothing But Heartaches, Baby Love). Some of those later hits [[My World Is Empty, You Can't Hurry Love) the backgrounds are very basic and barely audible.

For me as ranran said I dont think it's fair to imply Mary and Flo are not on a song when they in fact are there. It's taking away their contributions. I'm as much a Flo Ballard fan as I am a Diana Ross fan. And as much of Flo fan as I am, I can say that I definitely hear that it could be Marlene Barrow on Reflections in Florence's place. You Cant Hurry Love, is a little harder to tell because the backgrounds are sung in unison.

[vgalindo]

Well there is that ridiculous "Let Me Go the Right Way" argument, so I wouldn't etch this one in stone.:p But for true fans yes, there is no questioning the unmistakable voice of Diana Ross.
Yes I do remember some people thinking that was Florence. But I was only speaking about Stop in the name of love.

[khansperac]

I remember listening to that radio show that featured one of the Andantes. It was said on that show that the released version of “Stop” was the Andantes. But on other versions it was just the Supremes and on other versions a combo of the Andantes and Mary and Flo. I think she even said that she hears Florence which supports the Andantes/Mary/Flo version. She came off as kind of upset, but still gracious , at how some supreme fans were taking the news that Mary and Flo Were not on some records.

[reese]

Yes I do remember some people thinking that was Florence. But I was only speaking about Stop in the name of love.

Geoff Brown's book on Diana actually stated that Flo was doing the lead on LET ME GO THE RIGHT WAY. This probably confused some fans as well. Myself, I never thought it sounded anything like Flo.

[RanRan79]

Doesn’t bother them at all if others get praise.

Yes it does, I've seen it. As I stated in an earlier post, part of this Andantes talk is aimed at fans of Flo and Mary. Diana doesn't need propping up or defending. Her legendary career speaks for itself. I'm an obvious Diana fan and I've never felt the need to downplay any Supreme in order to speak to her greatness. Some other fans clearly do not feel as I do. And it may be true that a lot of this isn't even how any particular screen name feels personally but is instead what they use as a weapon against one very specific screen name whom they feel has committed the unforgivable sin of speaking negatively against Diana Ross. It's still a very silly thing to do.

[RanRan79]

And just for clarity, let me state that I do not believe Brad brought up Marlene on "Reflections" for any other reason than to state what he believes is a fact about the record, contrary to apparently what was written in the article. I've never known him to be someone taking digs at any Supreme for any reason.

[RanRan79]

Ran Ran -I never thought of you being in the group that never wants to hear the Andantes

I do think this issue is overblown; 10 years ago this was news; today it’s not news anymore

Brad’s a younger super fan who’s helped Mary some and been in the vaults and seen notes on master tapes - I understand

Got it Rob.

[RanRan79]

Yes. I remember that. I was so confused and thought it was really silly that there were Supremes fans that said they only listened to the background.

Why would that be silly? Who actually is in charge of the reasons why anyone likes a particular song or group? This is the stuff that always leaves me scratching my head. Please explain it to me. I guess I can only speak for myself but there are many reasons why I might like or dislike a song. When it comes to the Supremes I prefer the totality of the vocals on most songs, but there are certainly songs where the lead is the dominate force, while there are others where it's the backgrounds that do it for me. "Stranger In Paradise" is a good case in point. Diana's lead is good, probably very good. But I couldn't care less. Anyone really could be singing it AFAIC. It's the background vocals, particularly Florence, that makes that song a fav of mine. That's not silly, it just is what it is: what I like. "Baby Love" is another. I really don't care for the song because it's so overplayed, but when I do allow myself to sit through it, Diana's voice is probably the most unlikable thing about the song. That whiny singing coupled with those basic lyrics "Baby love, my baby love, oh how I need ya..." I wanna puke.:p But Flo and Mary make their parts work for my taste.

Diana Ross is IMO one of the greatest voices that the world has ever had the chance to hear. But it's okay if everyone doesn't think she's so hot, or if they prefer any particular Supreme voice to hers.

[RanRan79]

This is not the statement that confused things. This statement was after the fact. When some fans got really upset after hearing that Florence and Mary were not on the released 45 record. This was said on the Nightflight show with John Perrone. They were promoting the new expanded edition. I don’t have the exact quote. It was so long ago. But if my memory serves me right it was said that Mary and Florence were not on the 45 single release. But I’ll go by what George is saying now.
But who cares. I love all the versions.

Okay, more pieces of the puzzle. Thanks again. Yeah, I see how confusing it all is.

Believe it or not, I prefer the live versions of "Stop In the Name of Love" to the hit version. Like "Baby Love", "Stop" is so overplayed that it becomes almost nauseating to hear them. I don't think any other two Supremes songs are played quite so often, be it radio, tv commercials, movies, etc., which might explain why they are the two big hits that annoy the hell out of me while the other huge hits- which also get good exposure- don't have that effect on me. "Hurry Love" and "Hangin On" and "Where Did Our Love Go" get a ton of action and I never tire of hearing them. Go figure.

[RanRan79]

I enjoy the backgrounds as much as I enjoy Diana's lead. There's songs where the backgrounds are an important factor of that song [[Come See About Me, Stop, Nothing But Heartaches, Baby Love). Some of those later hits [[My World Is Empty, You Can't Hurry Love) the backgrounds are very basic and barely audible.

For me as ranran said I dont think it's fair to imply Mary and Flo are not on a song when they in fact are there. It's taking away their contributions. I'm as much a Flo Ballard fan as I am a Diana Ross fan. And as much of Flo fan as I am, I can say that I definitely hear that it could be Marlene Barrow on Reflections in Florence's place. You Cant Hurry Love, is a little harder to tell because the backgrounds are sung in unison.

For the record I don't ever want to stifle the right of fans to give their opinions about any given song, including if they think Flo and/or Mary is absent. But I do take exception to the obvious attempts to downplay their contributions. That usually occurs under specific screen names used on this site.

[RanRan79]

Geoff Brown's book on Diana actually stated that Flo was doing the lead on LET ME GO THE RIGHT WAY. This probably confused some fans as well. Myself, I never thought it sounded anything like Flo.

I remember reading it in the book Supremes Triumph and Tragedy. I assumed that's where the rumor started. But Diana and Florence have such different voices that it just blows my mind that anyone would seriously argue that one is the other.

[jobeterob]

So in the end, there's probably some Andante voices on a bunch of Supremes songs - Stop, Reflections, My World, You Can't Hurry Love, even as early as Run Run Run.

I will say when I first heard this, I was very surprised. And then they turned up on more songs and more and more.

The Supremes I enjoyed most were around the time of More Hits through to You Keep Me Hangin on where there was the challenging duet almost between Diana and Florence.

The public couldn't give a damn who sings on those songs in the background; the never knew and don't care.

And for us fans, we know the details and it's not that big a deal. [[I'm sure Mary and Louvain have known all along)!

[vgalindo]

Why would that be silly? Who actually is in charge of the reasons why anyone likes a particular song or group? This is the stuff that always leaves me scratching my head. Please explain it to me. I guess I can only speak for myself but there are many reasons why I might like or dislike a song. When it comes to the Supremes I prefer the totality of the vocals on most songs, but there are certainly songs where the lead is the dominate force, while there are others where it's the backgrounds that do it for me. "Stranger In Paradise" is a good case in point. Diana's lead is good, probably very good. But I couldn't care less. Anyone really could be singing it AFAIC. It's the background vocals, particularly Florence, that makes that song a fav of mine. That's not silly, it just is what it is: what I like. "Baby Love" is another. I really don't care for the song because it's so overplayed, but when I do allow myself to sit through it, Diana's voice is probably the most unlikable thing about the song. That whiny singing coupled with those basic lyrics "Baby love, my baby love, oh how I need ya..." I wanna puke.:p But Flo and Mary make their parts work for my taste.

Diana Ross is IMO one of the greatest voices that the world has ever had the chance to hear. But it's okay if everyone doesn't think she's so hot, or if they prefer any particular Supreme voice to hers.
I respect your opinion. But either I like a song or I don’t. I have to love the lead and the background or the song would not be a song I would buy. That’s just me. I still say it’s strange to claim you are a huge 60s Supremes fan and not like the voice of the lead singer. IMO.

[thanxal]

This is not the statement that confused things. This statement was after the fact. When some fans got really upset after hearing that Florence and Mary were not on the released 45 record. This was said on the Nightflight show with John Perrone. They were promoting the new expanded edition. I don’t have the exact quote. It was so long ago. But if my memory serves me right it was said that Mary and Florence were not on the 45 single release. But I’ll go by what George is saying now.
But who cares. I love all the versions.
Your memory serves. I recall that exact discussion on John’s show. George’s statement here made me think I am losing my mind [[full disclosure: I am). I make fun of this whole Andantes argument since people use it as a cudgel. You can’t actually engage it in a serious way, for the moment you do the flying harpies swoop in for battle and piss all over everything.

[vgalindo]

Your memory serves. I recall that exact discussion on John’s show. George’s statement here made me think I am losing my mind [[full disclosure: I am). I make fun of this whole Andantes argument since people use it as a cudgel. You can’t actually engage it in a serious way, for the moment you do the flying harpies swoop in for battle and piss all over everything.
Thank you. I knew I wasn’t dreaming! Lol.

[jobeterob]

Is a cudgel something like a dildo?

[thanxal]

Is a cudgel something like a dildo?
LOL!!! I suppose one could​ use it that way.

[PeaceNHarmony]

Is a cudgel something like a dildo?No, but some of the posters here are!

[PeaceNHarmony]

I respect your opinion. But either I like a song or I don’t. I have to love the lead and the background or the song would not be a song I would buy. That’s just me. I still say it’s strange to claim you are a huge 60s Supremes fan and not like the voice of the lead singer. IMO.A step, or leap, or marathon, beyond strange. Ever hear anyone [[sane) say 'Can't stand that Stubbs guy but I LOVE the Tops. That Lawrence Payton, man, he could sure sing background!'

[vgalindo]

A step, or leap, or marathon, beyond strange. Ever hear anyone [[sane) say 'Can't stand that Stubbs guy but I LOVE the Tops. That Lawrence Payton, man, he could sure sing background!'
That’s what I am saying! Makes no since to me! Or how about. I love Gladys Knight and the Pips but don’t like the lead singer! The Pips sure could harmonize and dance. Lol

[jobeterob]

That’s what I am saying! Makes no since to me! Or how about. I love Gladys Knight and the Pips but don’t like the lead singer! The Pips sure could harmonize and dance. Lol

But when your heads all messed up, all you hear is oohs and aahs so it’s easy

[PeaceNHarmony]

That’s what I am saying! Makes no since to me! Or how about. I love Gladys Knight and the Pips but don’t like the lead singer! The Pips sure could harmonize and dance. LolYES!! If it weren't for that da*ned Gordy guy it would have been William Guest and the Pips!

[PeaceNHarmony]

But when your heads all messed up, all you hear is oohs and aahs so it’s easyDoes it seem like maybe the only 'interest' in Motown music that some of 'us' have is that of denigrating one particular Motown superstar? Perhaps they are at home rocking out to Helen Reddy and The Archies whilst concocting new conspiracies to share with us.

[vgalindo]

YES!! If it weren't for that da*ned Gordy guy it would have been William Guest and the Pips!
Too funny. Lol lol 😂

[thanxal]

Does it seem like maybe the only 'interest' in Motown music that some of 'us' have is that of denigrating one particular Motown superstar?

Hasn't that been obvious for quite some time? I really wish people would lay off Barrett Strong.