Your Kiss of Fire

[RanRan79]

Any fans of this one? This is one of my favorite Florence vocals.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRPc6tzNTd8

[reese]

I've always loved this track, from the time I first bought a budget copy of the WHERE DID OUR LOVE GO on the Pickwick label. Everything from Diana's lead to the great harmonies of Mary and Flo make this one a winner for me. It is recordings like this that show just how great DMF were and IMO, how they had the best female group vocal blend at Motown.

[lucky2012]

One of my favorites when I first got the album and really listened to it after playing the three hits over and over again. I had the mono album [[all I could afford as a kid) and I, too, was impressed with Diana's lead and Mary & Flo's harmonies.

[marv2]

I liked that whole album including this song . They sound good, like the group they were meant to be. You can easily hear that Florence had the most powerful, melodic voice in the group. It also shows that they did not need the Andantes or anyone else singing harmonies for them.

[lakeside]

I really like this song, too. This is one of my favorite albums. I wish they would have left the Andante's OFF all Supremes recordings as I think that changed their unique sound.
It got way too homogenized sounding. This recording proves that the original group
sounded best [[to my ears).

[sup_fan]

it's a great one. i was familiar with it from my WDOLG album but had sort of forgotten it until i bought one of those budget cassette tapes in the 80s that had a hit or two plus various random album tracks.

the girls sound great and love their 3-part harmony when, after the bridge, they sing "bring, bring him to me" beautiful

with the WDOLG EE and all of the unreleased tracks on disc 2, it's clear all of the gems made it onto the album. IMO the weakest track is Standing At The Crossroads of Love. it's too high for diana and she sounds rather whiny. but all other tracks are stellar. and really none of the unreleased one are "missed opportunities"

[lucky2012]

^

he girls sound great and love their 3-part harmony when, after the bridge, they sing "bring, bring him to me" beautiful
Agree, sup_fan. They were really a group then.


IMO the weakest track is Standing At The Crossroads of Love. it's too high for Diana and she sounds rather whiny.]
Agree. I like the song but the key is too high for Diana. That's my problem with Run, Run, Run too. The key is high on He Means the World to Me, yet I like the song and performance.
The rest is indeed stellar.

[RanRan79]

I've always loved this track, from the time I first bought a budget copy of the WHERE DID OUR LOVE GO on the Pickwick label. Everything from Diana's lead to the great harmonies of Mary and Flo make this one a winner for me. It is recordings like this that show just how great DMF were and IMO, how they had the best female group vocal blend at Motown.

Reese I think the Supremes blend is underrated, but IMO the Andantes had the best blend. It's like their individual voices were created specifically to sing with one another. Lol But I understand your sentiment. One of the reasons why I think it can be somewhat difficult to quickly ascertain whether it's the Supremes on a cut or the Andantes is because of [[a) similar tones in the voices and [[b) similar ability at harmonizing. IMO of all the female groups at Motown, the Supremes had the most personality in the vocals [[which I believe was a factor in their success). On the flip, my view of the Velvelettes lack of success wasn't because they weren't good singers, but because they didn't have any personality. They could've been any girl group out there. There was nothing separating them from the pack. That's also my thought on the Andantes, as great as they were. A real good tell tale sign that it's not Flo and Mary but instead the Andantes is one set has great voices and personality, the other just great voices. I don't think people talk much about the factor of personality in singing.

[RanRan79]

I liked that whole album including this song . They sound good, like the group they were meant to be. You can easily hear that Florence had the most powerful, melodic voice in the group. It also shows that they did not need the Andantes or anyone else singing harmonies for them.

No they did not need the Andantes and it's always important to note that during the Flo era, the combo of Flo and Mary were used overwhelmingly more than the Andantes, who were overwhelmingly used during the DRATS period. While some use the presence of the Andantes to take digs at Flo and Mary, I look at the fact that the consensus of the producers was to use the actual Supremes while Flo was in the group most of the time when they could've used the Andantes most of the time, as we see they would eventually with most- if not all- of the female groups. The Supremes had a good thing going on.

[RanRan79]

I wish they would have left the Andante's OFF all Supremes recordings as I think that changed their unique sound.
It got way too homogenized sounding. This recording proves that the original group
sounded best [[to my ears).

Homogenized and boring. Even the Andantes themselves lost a lot of the thing that gave them such a great sound in the early to mid 60s. By the time they were pretty much full time pseudo Supremes/Vandellas/Marvelettes in the late 60s, all of their vocals might as well have been cut at the same session. One of the worst decisions ever made at Motown, replacing the female groups with the Andantes.

[RanRan79]

really none of the unreleased one are "missed opportunities"

I might beg to differ on a couple of them. Stay tuned...

[marv2]

No they did not need the Andantes and it's always important to note that during the Flo era, the combo of Flo and Mary were used overwhelmingly more than the Andantes, who were overwhelmingly used during the DRATS period. While some use the presence of the Andantes to take digs at Flo and Mary, I look at the fact that the consensus of the producers was to use the actual Supremes while Flo was in the group most of the time when they could've used the Andantes most of the time, as we see they would eventually with most- if not all- of the female groups. The Supremes had a good thing going on.

The producers also knew that the Supremes were excellent singers which is why they were used on background for Marvin Gaye, Mary Wells, etc. On Marvin's "Can I Get A Witness" you can hear Florence Ballard over and above all the other singers.

[lucky2012]

^ Florence really shines on You're A Wonderful One. Mary is great on Where Did Our Love Go. I love Diana on You Lost The Sweetest Boy.

[sup_fan]

Reese I think the Supremes blend is underrated, but IMO the Andantes had the best blend. It's like their individual voices were created specifically to sing with one another. Lol But I understand your sentiment. One of the reasons why I think it can be somewhat difficult to quickly ascertain whether it's the Supremes on a cut or the Andantes is because of [[a) similar tones in the voices and [[b) similar ability at harmonizing. IMO of all the female groups at Motown, the Supremes had the most personality in the vocals [[which I believe was a factor in their success). On the flip, my view of the Velvelettes lack of success wasn't because they weren't good singers, but because they didn't have any personality. They could've been any girl group out there. There was nothing separating them from the pack. That's also my thought on the Andantes, as great as they were. A real good tell tale sign that it's not Flo and Mary but instead the Andantes is one set has great voices and personality, the other just great voices. I don't think people talk much about the factor of personality in singing.

i think this is a fair assessment. I like the Velvelettes but agree that there just really isn't much spark. and IMO their lead single was talented but uninspiring

the andantes did have an excellent blend and from stories i've hear, an excellent ear for harmony. apparently they would often devise their vocal parts themselves

The supremes absolutely had personality and that's part of what made them shine. of course having Diana Ross was a huge asset. but M and F were not only talented singers but gifted entertainers and interesting, dynamic personalities. especially on stage

[sup_fan]

Homogenized and boring. Even the Andantes themselves lost a lot of the thing that gave them such a great sound in the early to mid 60s. By the time they were pretty much full time pseudo Supremes/Vandellas/Marvelettes in the late 60s, all of their vocals might as well have been cut at the same session. One of the worst decisions ever made at Motown, replacing the female groups with the Andantes.

the sound of the andantes changes quite a bit. and it might be that the vocalists are changing so not really the andantes. the BG sound on Love Child to me is too husky and anonymous. now the high "ahhhhhhhs" are wonderful and give the record some great personality. but the rest is void of personality IMO. but on a song like "Just Ask The Lonely" they're lovely and soaring.

i'm assuming it's the same women. please let me know if otherwise

[sup_fan]

I might beg to differ on a couple of them. Stay tuned...

eagerly anticipating hehehe

I've listened to the tracks quite a bit and added some to playlists. I think Penny Pincher and Send Me No Flowers are among the strongest tracks on disc 2. Don't take it away is fine and Just call me. Actually one of the songs are terrible and all show a solid improvement over the majority of the Meet tracks. but if i was producing the WDOLG lp, i don't think i would have swapped any songs out. Nor would any of these have merited being saved and used on More Hits or another lp

[reese]

eagerly anticipating hehehe

I've listened to the tracks quite a bit and added some to playlists. I think Penny Pincher and Send Me No Flowers are among the strongest tracks on disc 2. Don't take it away is fine and Just call me. Actually one of the songs are terrible and all show a solid improvement over the majority of the Meet tracks. but if i was producing the WDOLG lp, i don't think i would have swapped any songs out. Nor would any of these have merited being saved and used on More Hits or another lp

From the expanded edition of WDOLG, I really like MY IMAGINATION, OOOWEE BABY, and my favorite, JUST CALL ME.

I think the WHERE DID OUR LOVE GO album is basically perfect as is. If I had to do some resequencing, I might add Smokey's OOOWEE BABY to the end of Side 2, to sort of make a bookend with Smokey's LONG GONE LOVER on Side 1. However, the loss of ASK ANY GIRL would make the finale of the album less dramatic.

[daviddh]

Not my favorite but I'll have another listen.this n Run Run Run.like the rest of the lp

[BigAl]

I've always felt that side two of the WDOLG album represents directions the group might have taken had HDH not strepped in and taken the reins entirely. All the tracks are solidly good, but I do agree that Diane is too shrill on "Crossroads of Love" and "He Means the World to Me." "Kiss of Fire" and "Ask Any Girl" are very accomplished, but had they been A-sides, they still would probably have only dented the charts a little.

[sup_fan]

for the most part across ALL of their records the hits really jump out at you. there are a few tracks [[this old heart, going down third time) that are missed A sides. but otherwise i think they got it perfectly right.

and i agree with your "accomplished." many songs are just excellent but for some reason not as suited for a single release. but that doesn't make them less. they're excellent album tracks even if the album wasn't conceived as a concept from start to finish.

[TomatoTom123]

First time listening to it properly, nice song.

[RanRan79]

^ Florence really shines on You're A Wonderful One. Mary is great on Where Did Our Love Go. I love Diana on You Lost The Sweetest Boy.

I agree that Flo is the standout on "Wonderful" and Diana on "Sweetest Boy". I really want HDH to address why Florence doesn't seem audible on "Where Did Our Love Go". She's there [[because it would've come out before now that she wasn't at the session) but was she mixed out? Is she mixed so low that we just can't tell? I need answers.:o

[RanRan79]

the sound of the andantes changes quite a bit. and it might be that the vocalists are changing so not really the andantes. the BG sound on Love Child to me is too husky and anonymous. now the high "ahhhhhhhs" are wonderful and give the record some great personality. but the rest is void of personality IMO. but on a song like "Just Ask The Lonely" they're lovely and soaring.

i'm assuming it's the same women. please let me know if otherwise

It's the same women throughout, Jackie, Marlene and Louvain. Yes, they are fantastic during the "Ask the Lonely" period. I think their sound went stale in 1968. That's also about the point where the background Supremes, Vandellas and Marvelettes were mostly replaced by the Andantes.

[RanRan79]

eagerly anticipating hehehe

I've listened to the tracks quite a bit and added some to playlists. I think Penny Pincher and Send Me No Flowers are among the strongest tracks on disc 2. Don't take it away is fine and Just call me. Actually one of the songs are terrible and all show a solid improvement over the majority of the Meet tracks. but if i was producing the WDOLG lp, i don't think i would have swapped any songs out. Nor would any of these have merited being saved and used on More Hits or another lp

I think there's some definite good ones, all good album tracks. One or two duds. Two or three A sides, which might have needed reworking in order to make the cut. I'll spotlight a few in a separate thread.

[marv2]

I agree that Flo is the standout on "Wonderful" and Diana on "Sweetest Boy". I really want HDH to address why Florence doesn't seem audible on "Where Did Our Love Go". She's there [[because it would've come out before now that she wasn't at the session) but was she mixed out? Is she mixed so low that we just can't tell? I need answers.:o

I have never heard Florence Ballard's voice on "Where Did Our Love Go?" on any version of the recording.

[sup_fan]

I agree that Flo is the standout on "Wonderful" and Diana on "Sweetest Boy". I really want HDH to address why Florence doesn't seem audible on "Where Did Our Love Go". She's there [[because it would've come out before now that she wasn't at the session) but was she mixed out? Is she mixed so low that we just can't tell? I need answers.:o

i wonder if it's just that she's singing much lower in her register. and maybe they wanted a bit more of a hushed sound, something not so bright. and so they had mary a bit closer to the mic

or maybe it's just that all the girls were so un-interested in the song that they just didn't put forth much effort. and flo just wasn't belting cuz she didn't care about it

[lucky2012]

I agree that Flo is the standout on "Wonderful" and Diana on "Sweetest Boy". I really want HDH to address why Florence doesn't seem audible on "Where Did Our Love Go". She's there [[because it would've come out before now that she wasn't at the session) but was she mixed out? Is she mixed so low that we just can't tell? I need answers.:o
I think she may be mixed low. From the beginning I never thought it wasn't a group on the record or that it was a duo [[until I read posts on this forum). I detect an echo that may be just more than one voice singing in unison. [[Listening to it as I post.) However it was achieved, the background is effectively haunting and helped make this record a classic.

[lucky2012]

i wonder if it's just that she's singing much lower in her register. and maybe they wanted a bit more of a hushed sound, something not so bright. and so they had mary a bit closer to the mic

I think you've got it, Ollie!


or maybe it's just that all the girls were so un-interested in the song that they just didn't put forth much effort. and flo just wasn't belting cuz she didn't care about it
Lol. The girls must have really hated the song! [[Trying to imagine them in the studio with HDH :))

[sup_fan]

^ and i wonder just how much of the "myth" of WDOLG is accurate. given the other tunes the Sups and Marvelettes were recording during this period that have since been released, Where is most certainly NOT the worst thing put in front of the girls. with the massive success of the song and how it changed history, it wouldn't be surprising if memories have been embellished

My theory is:

HDH wrote the song and presented it to the Marvelettes. Rather than the M's saying "hell no this sucks!," I wonder if they were just running out of studio time and only had a short while left. and when given a choice of doing Fish or Where, the girls opted for Where.

then maybe later, once Where was given to the Sups, the M's might have been a little catty [[if for no other reason to the tweak Diana's nose and put her in her place a bit) and said, mmm hmmm, we passed on that one. have fun with recording our rejects lolol ;)

[marv2]

i wonder if it's just that she's singing much lower in her register. and maybe they wanted a bit more of a hushed sound, something not so bright. and so they had mary a bit closer to the mic

or maybe it's just that all the girls were so un-interested in the song that they just didn't put forth much effort. and flo just wasn't belting cuz she didn't care about it

I don't hear her at all.

[sup_fan]

^ i can't make our her specifically either but it is more than 1 voice in BG. i'm assuming that since this was early enough in their careers that flo wasn't skipping recording sessions just yet

[reese]

^ i can't make our her specifically either but it is more than 1 voice in BG. i'm assuming that since this was early enough in their careers that flo wasn't skipping recording sessions just yet

This may be one of the songs HDH had Flo stand far from the mike to get a certain background blend. I don't think they went for that effect again.