The Supremes - The Shoop Shoop Song [[1974)

[marv2]

Although the Supremes did not have any new releases in 1974, they were recording. Here's one of them that should have been released in 1974. It would have definitely charted:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvG_1uC5S3s

[BigAl]

Ehh...not much impressed. So many better renditions: Merry Clayton [[the first), Cher [[the last), and the best, hands down, no contest: Betty Everett with The Blossoms on background.

[sup_fan]

would have been fine enough for an album track. there are certainly worse lp tracks that were released throughout all of the years of the group. but yeah - this wasn't going to put them on the top of the charts

i have a few fan magazines from this period and the author interviews MSC and talks about their new recordings. The girls said they thought Shoop was ok but they weren't very excited about it at the time. Color My World Blue was one they were much more excited about

[Thornton]

I always thought this would have been a good B-Side for "It's All Been Said Before" as a late 1974 single release. I believe they both had the same producer.

[marv2]

would have been fine enough for an album track. there are certainly worse lp tracks that were released throughout all of the years of the group. but yeah - this wasn't going to put them on the top of the charts

i have a few fan magazines from this period and the author interviews MSC and talks about their new recordings. The girls said they thought Shoop was ok but they weren't very excited about it at the time. Color My World Blue was one they were much more excited about

I believe this song would have charted if released in the first half of '74. I have a good memory of the type of Pop music that was being played then. "Color My World Blue", which is a better recording would have gone at least Top 40 if also released as a single in that time frame of 1974-75.

[drlorne]

I don't hear Mary or Cindy in the background, it doesn't even sound like the Andantes.

[marv2]

I don't hear Mary or Cindy in the background, it doesn't even sound like the Andantes.

That's interesting because I only hear Mary and Cindy. The Andantes were no longer with Motown at that time.

[Pandakins]

Linda Lewis had a great version of this song which was a big hit in the UK at about the same time

[RanRan79]

Sucks. Wasn't going to do any better than most of the Scherrie year singles. This is something the Supremes should've covered during the Flo years, not in the mid 70s.

[blackguy69]

Its Mary, Cindy and Scherrie on background. The Andantes were gone from Motown at this point. This was recorded in LA so the Andantes wouldn’t have been on it anyway.
I don't hear Mary or Cindy in the background, it doesn't even sound like the Andantes.

[sup_fan]

once Scherrie joined all recordings are only MSC or MSS. except of course the male voices on a couple tracks - like Mr Boogie and Sweet Dream Machine ;)

[Bluebrock]

Ehh...not much impressed. So many better renditions: Merry Clayton [[the first), Cher [[the last), and the best, hands down, no contest: Betty Everett with The Blossoms on background.
So many versions , but for me Linda Lewis did the best version. As i recall the 7" single was just called "It's in his kiss" rather than The Shoop Shoop Song. The Supremes did a good version. It stands up well against the other versions.

[Bluebrock]

Linda Lewis had a great version of this song which was a big hit in the UK at about the same time
Yes she did Pandakins. I think it was during the long hot summer of 1976.

[Bluebrock]

would have been fine enough for an album track. there are certainly worse lp tracks that were released throughout all of the years of the group. but yeah - this wasn't going to put them on the top of the charts

i have a few fan magazines from this period and the author interviews MSC and talks about their new recordings. The girls said they thought Shoop was ok but they weren't very excited about it at the time. Color My World Blue was one they were much more excited about
I love Color My World Blue, but i am not sure it was a potential hit single. Love restrained vocal from Scherrie. Without doubt a highlight of the Supremes later work.

[sup_fan]

i think they could have done a pop lp on the girls once the Ivy Woodward tracks were done. Shoop and It's all been Said would have completed the other pop songs like You Can't Stop a Girl, Color, Sha La, Give Out, Turn me around, etc. that would have been a solid pop album to re-introduce the group to the general population and they could have had a couple top 40 hits. maybe not #1 but decent hits just the same

i think they could have scored with:

It's all been said
Color
You Can't stop a girl in love

[Bluebrock]

i think they could have done a pop lp on the girls once the Ivy Woodward tracks were done. Shoop and It's all been Said would have completed the other pop songs like You Can't Stop a Girl, Color, Sha La, Give Out, Turn me around, etc. that would have been a solid pop album to re-introduce the group to the general population and they could have had a couple top 40 hits. maybe not #1 but decent hits just the same

i think they could have scored with:

It's all been said
Color
You Can't stop a girl in love

I still maintain He's my man could have hit big had Scherrie done the lead vocal. She would have carried it to a new level. Mary's lead was insipid and that killed any impact the song may have had. I agree that It's all been said had hit potential, and a remix of Where do i go from here could have been successful too.

[sup_fan]

I just think that disco wasn’t really ultra mainstream in 75. Sat Night Fever wasn’t until 77. So given the group’s pop history I think to “relaunch” them a pop album would have been the most likely to chart well. Plus they had such a long dormant period. They could have quickly pulled the pop songs together and push out an lp and then jump into the disco work

And I agree HMM would have done much better had scherrie handled majority of lead.

[144man]

Ehh...not much impressed. So many better renditions: Merry Clayton [[the first), Cher [[the last), and the best, hands down, no contest: Betty Everett with The Blossoms on background.

My favourite version, possibly because it was the one I heard first, was by Ramona King.

[jim aka jtigre99]

I love Scherrie Payne, she is incredibly underrated. Her vocals added spark and fire that seemed to be missing in the last year of the group before she joined. Miss Payne was and is a true vocal dynamo.

[blackguy69]

I disagree that Scherrie should have done the whole lead for He’s My Man. I agree she has a phenomenal voice but also tends to over sing a lot.

[marv2]

I disagree that Scherrie should have done the whole lead for He’s My Man. I agree she has a phenomenal voice but also tends to over sing a lot.

Scherrie would have been great on Broadway. We use to joke back in the day that she was "the Black Ethel Merman" LOL! Love Scherrie.

[sup_fan]

I disagree that Scherrie should have done the whole lead for He’s My Man. I agree she has a phenomenal voice but also tends to over sing a lot.

I do like the idea of the group sharing leads more. And I think HMM would have been great with all three women getting some portion of the song. But it’s such a high energy [[pun intended lol) song and for the first voice to be a sleepy sounding Mary just sucks the wind out of things. U needed someone that would explode from
Ur speakers. Then counter that with some of Mary’s deep smokey vocals and some of Cindy’s sexiness and it would have done better in my opinion

[marv2]

I do like the idea of the group sharing leads more. And I think HMM would have been great with all three women getting some portion of the song. But it’s such a high energy [[pun intended lol) song and for the first voice to be a sleepy sounding Mary just sucks the wind out of things. U needed someone that would explode from
Ur speakers. Then counter that with some of Mary’s deep smokey vocals and some of Cindy’s sexiness and it would have done better in my opinion

It may have been "sleepy" to you, but to me it was sexy as Hell! LOL! Mary just has that vibe when she uses her sexy, whispery voice like she did on "He's My Man" and "Floy Joy". Reminds me of how Marilyn Monroe use to do it.

[Bluebrock]

I disagree that Scherrie should have done the whole lead for He’s My Man. I agree she has a phenomenal voice but also tends to over sing a lot.
Mary's lead was not strong enough to carry the tune. Scherrie had the technique and strength that Mary lacked. We will never know of course, but i maintain it was a big mistake to use Mary so much. The public quite simply did not take to her voice. Scherrie would have killed it. A missed opportunity that the girls never really recovered from.

[Bluebrock]

I do like the idea of the group sharing leads more. And I think HMM would have been great with all three women getting some portion of the song. But it’s such a high energy [[pun intended lol) song and for the first voice to be a sleepy sounding Mary just sucks the wind out of things. U needed someone that would explode from
Ur speakers. Then counter that with some of Mary’s deep smokey vocals and some of Cindy’s sexiness and it would have done better in my opinion
The song only really came to life when Scherrie took control. It could have been a smash had she handled more of the lead.

[blackguy69]

It seems to me it didn’t make a difference who sang lead because Motown wasn’t going to support them. Minus IGLMHDTW all the Scherrie lead songs didn’t do squat on the top 40 charts.

[blackguy69]

And I have to laugh when some of you say HMM came alive when Scherrie parts came alive even though Scherrie “lead” was the whole group singing in unison with Scherrie doing a little Adlib

[RanRan79]

It seems to me it didn’t make a difference who sang lead because Motown wasn’t going to support them. Minus IGLMHDTW all the Scherrie lead songs didn’t do squat on the top 40 charts.

Sort of how I see it too. I don't mind people preferring Scherrie's voice over Mary's, but the idea that Mary singing lead turns the public off while Scherrie somehow excited everyone just isn't followed up by the facts. Maybe HMM would have sounded better with Scherrie singing the whole thing, maybe not. But there's no evidence to suggest that HMM would have sold any better or gotten anymore airplay that any of the subsequent Scherrie leads released as single. "Heart Walking" being the obvious exception, which still didn't surpass the success of Mary's integral roles in "Floy Joy" or "Automatically Sunshine" which did better than "Heart Walking" on both r&b and pop charts. Mary had already proven to Motown that her voice could sale a record. I'd argue that Mary's voice is more appealing on those two Smokey cuts than Jean, the "official" lead singer, was.

[Bluebrock]

It seems to me it didn’t make a difference who sang lead because Motown wasn’t going to support them. Minus IGLMHDTW all the Scherrie lead songs didn’t do squat on the top 40 charts.
Here in the UK He's my man was heavily promoted and played. Tony Blackburn had it as his record of the week on his radio 1 show. The girls appeared on tv shows and did lots of press interviews but the song quite simply refused to chart despite the 70's Supremes previously impressive chart record in the UK. The public either did not like the song and/or did not like Mary's vocals. For what its worth i thought it was a good record that could have been great with a stronger lead vocal.

[blackguy69]

To backup what Ran said earlier I doubt Mary’s voice wasn’t the issue. Since Floy Joy and Automatically Sunshine charted higher in the UK than in the states
Here in the UK He's my man was heavily promoted and played. Tony Blackburn had it as his record of the week on his radio 1 show. The girls appeared on tv shows and did lots of press interviews but the song quite simply refused to chart despite the 70's Supremes previously impressive chart record in the UK. The public either did not like the song and/or did not like Mary's vocals. For what its worth i thought it was a good record that could have been great with a stronger lead vocal.

[sup_fan]

i don't believe Blue is saying that Mary's voice is totally unsuitable for airing in public on tv or radio. I think she fit wonderfully on FJ and Auto. those sort of mellow songs really allowed her to shine. I adore her phrasing on on Auto where she sings "...where you go, I'll go follow" and how she sort of cracks her voice on the lyric.

But those two tunes are drastically different from HMM. like comparing a song from Parliament to an operatic aria from Aida. both songs are wonderful and George is a hot vocalist for what he does. whereas Maria callas sounds phenomenal in her genre.

IMO that smokey husky sound didn't fit the beginning of HMM. it was such an explosive introduction on the song and i think you needed a really belter to sing the majority of it to make it come alive. I think M and C could have really made it fun and unique by having some trade-off lead parts and all. But Scherrie was the most appropriate member of the group to handle the lead

now do i think the choice of singer is totally responsible for the charting it received - no not 100%. I think these were the issues for the problems with the lack of hit with HMM:

1. the group had been dormant [[on the record charts) for over two years and prior to that they hadn't had a huge mega-hit since Stoned Love in late 70.
2. their live rendition of HMM on The Tonight Show was disastrous. the choreography was a mess, the huge chiffon ballgowns the wrong image, the band sounds tin-y and off. Their Soul Train lip sync was better, as was Dinah.
3. motown's lack of huge support - i'm repeating what has been told on here. But motown wanted It's All Been Said but Pedro/Mary demanded HMM. Motown frankly didn't have any interest in the group and had wished Mary had just retired when J and L left. Also they had no interest in Mary as a lead singer of the group. Whatever minimal promotion the group MIGHT have gotten for IABSB evaporated when the group pushed motown to release a song sung by a lead singer they weren't interested in supporting.

[marv2]

To backup what Ran said earlier I doubt Mary’s voice wasn’t the issue. Since Floy Joy and Automatically Sunshine charted higher in the UK than in the states

Not to forget that Mary Wilson's voice is very prominent on the Supremes first number one hit, "Where Did Our Love Go?".

[sup_fan]

Not to forget that Mary Wilson's voice is very prominent on the Supremes first number one hit, "Where Did Our Love Go?".

oh yes and her husky tone works wonderfully with the vocals here!

[Bluebrock]

oh yes and her husky tone works wonderfully with the vocals here!
Mary was an outstanding backing vocalist. Along with Flo their lovely backing vocals enhanced many of the early Supremes hits, but that is not the issue here of course.

[Bluebrock]

To backup what Ran said earlier I doubt Mary’s voice wasn’t the issue. Since Floy Joy and Automatically Sunshine charted higher in the UK than in the states
I think you will find that most of the early 70's Supremes singles charted higher in the UK than the States. Ladder, Stoned Love, Nathan, Bad Weather, River Deep and You gotta have love as well as Floy Joy and Automatically Sunshine. They were hot in the UK during Jean's tenure in the group.

[RanRan79]

3. motown's lack of huge support - i'm repeating what has been told on here. But motown wanted It's All Been Said but Pedro/Mary demanded HMM. Motown frankly didn't have any interest in the group and had wished Mary had just retired when J and L left. Also they had no interest in Mary as a lead singer of the group. Whatever minimal promotion the group MIGHT have gotten for IABSB evaporated when the group pushed motown to release a song sung by a lead singer they weren't interested in supporting.

Sup where is the info for Motown wanting "Been Said Before" as the first single coming from? I would think if they were interested in the group at all they would not have wanted to send them out of the gate with Scherrie on a cover version as Bobby Hutton had already done the song in 1973.

[drlorne]

Betty Everett's version had the Chicago group, the Opals as the background singers. The Blossoms were on Merry Clayton's version the year before.

[PeaceNHarmony]

oh yes and her husky tone works wonderfully with the vocals here!Are we sure Wilson sang on WDOLG? I can't hear her at all. I thought she was replaced due to her complaining during the recording session.

[blackguy69]

A few books listed It’s All Been Said Before was supposed to be the first single but was pulled for HMM. But I highly doubt Mary or Pedro had the power to demand Motown to change singles.
Sup where is the info for Motown wanting "Been Said Before" as the first single coming from? I would think if they were interested in the group at all they would not have wanted to send them out of the gate with Scherrie on a cover version as Bobby Hutton had already done the song in 1973.

[blackguy69]

Please quote the source where you got that BS story.
Are we sure Wilson sang on WDOLG? I can't hear her at all. I thought she was replaced due to her complaining during the recording session.

[milven]

According to Lamont Dozier, all three Supremes complained about the song. Diana complained because the key was too low. She reluctantly sang it in that key, but with an attitude. It worked. The attitude and low key were what the song needed, according to Lamont.

Flo and Mary had intricate background vocals that Lamont worked out, but the girls refused to learn them. Finally, he told them to “Just sing `Baby, baby, baby’.” It worked to their advantage and worked perfectly.

Mary still complains occasionally that the group never liked the song and that she didn't like doing just "Baby, Baby". But it worked out and the formula was used for subsequent number one hits.


LAMONT DOZIER

I originally cut this track with the Marvelettes in mind. In fact, I cut it in Gladys Horton’s key, the lead singer, which was much lower than Diana Ross’. At that time, at Motown, the policy was that the songwriters had to pay for the tracks we cut if it didn’t get recorded by one of their artists. It never entered my mind that the Marvelettes wouldn’t like the song. I had the chorus and went to the office to talk with Gladys and played it for her. She said, “Oh, honey, we don’t do stuff like that. And it’s the worst thing I ever heard.” She was adamant about it. I was shocked.

I knew I was in deep trouble if I didn’t hurry and get someone to do the song because I wasn’t about to pay for the track. I went through the Motown artist roster and went all the way to the bottom of the list and there were the Supremes, better known in those days as the “no hit Supremes.” I told them it was tailor made for them, knowing that they had nothing going on at the time and needed a song. Much to my surprise, they said no. Gladys [[Horton of the Marvelettes) told them I was looking for someone to record it. I wasn’t giving up. Brian [[Holland), Eddie [[Holland) and I finally persuaded them to do it, convincing them that it was their saving grace and they couldn’t refuse it. We had already had Top 40 hits with Martha and the Vandellas but they hadn’t had recordings of any significance yet.

They were so annoyed that they agreed to do it that, in the studio, they had a really bad attitude. Diana [[Ross) said it was in the wrong key, that it was too low. [[Of course it was – I wrote it in Gladys’ key.) Since the track was already cut, she had to sing it in that key and she’d never sung that low before. It turned out that her bad attitude and the low key were exactly what the song needed! I’d worked out intricate background vocals but the girls refused to learn them. Finally I said, “Just sing `Baby, baby, baby’.” It worked to their advantage and worked perfectly.

They didn’t necessarily agree. Diana and I were throwing obscenities back and forth and she went running to Berry [[Gordy, Jr.) and told him I said something off color about him. He came down to the studio to see what was wrong and while he was there, he asked to hear the song. He thought it was really good, but said that he didn’t know if it was a hit, but that he thought it would be Top 10.

The song was released and flew up the charts to #1. From then on, one hit followed another. It was the first of 13 consecutive #1s we did on the Supremes. The next time the Hollands and I saw the girls was at the airport. They were getting off a plane with their Yorkshire terriers, in mink stoles. We started laughing. It was so funny to see them turn into stars overnight.

[RanRan79]

A few books listed It’s All Been Said Before was supposed to be the first single but was pulled for HMM. But I highly doubt Mary or Pedro had the power to demand Motown to change singles.

Oh okay. Well we had a long discussion not long ago in another thread about Mary and Pedro's power or lack thereof. I was one of the ones who do not believe that Mary nor Pedro had the power to get Motown to release anything it did not want to release. Diana Ross didn't even have that power, so you know Mary Wilson wasn't going to get it.

[RanRan79]

Diana and I were throwing obscenities back and forth and she went running to Berry [[Gordy, Jr.) and told him I said something off color about him.

But I thought Flo was the one with the bad attitude and disrespectful behavior? Hmmm...

[milven]

But I thought Flo was the one with the bad attitude and disrespectful behavior? Hmmm...

At that point in their career, I am surprised that any of them had a bad attitude. But they were low on the Motown Totem Pole and simply were trying to get what they thought was best for them. Thankfully, it all seemed to work out and we got the Supremes

[blackguy69]

I know the story lol. I found it interesting that he only singled out Mary when all 3 of them had words with Diana being the most vocal about it.
According to Lamont Dozier, all three Supremes complained about the song. Diana complained because the key was too low. She reluctantly sang it in that key, but with an attitude. It worked. The attitude and low key were what the song needed, according to Lamont.

Flo and Mary had intricate background vocals that Lamont worked out, but the girls refused to learn them. Finally, he told them to “Just sing `Baby, baby, baby’.” It worked to their advantage and worked perfectly.

Mary still complains occasionally that the group never liked the song and that she didn't like doing just "Baby, Baby". But it worked out and the formula was used for subsequent number one hits.


LAMONT DOZIER

I originally cut this track with the Marvelettes in mind. In fact, I cut it in Gladys Horton’s key, the lead singer, which was much lower than Diana Ross’. At that time, at Motown, the policy was that the songwriters had to pay for the tracks we cut if it didn’t get recorded by one of their artists. It never entered my mind that the Marvelettes wouldn’t like the song. I had the chorus and went to the office to talk with Gladys and played it for her. She said, “Oh, honey, we don’t do stuff like that. And it’s the worst thing I ever heard.” She was adamant about it. I was shocked.

I knew I was in deep trouble if I didn’t hurry and get someone to do the song because I wasn’t about to pay for the track. I went through the Motown artist roster and went all the way to the bottom of the list and there were the Supremes, better known in those days as the “no hit Supremes.” I told them it was tailor made for them, knowing that they had nothing going on at the time and needed a song. Much to my surprise, they said no. Gladys [[Horton of the Marvelettes) told them I was looking for someone to record it. I wasn’t giving up. Brian [[Holland), Eddie [[Holland) and I finally persuaded them to do it, convincing them that it was their saving grace and they couldn’t refuse it. We had already had Top 40 hits with Martha and the Vandellas but they hadn’t had recordings of any significance yet.

They were so annoyed that they agreed to do it that, in the studio, they had a really bad attitude. Diana [[Ross) said it was in the wrong key, that it was too low. [[Of course it was – I wrote it in Gladys’ key.) Since the track was already cut, she had to sing it in that key and she’d never sung that low before. It turned out that her bad attitude and the low key were exactly what the song needed! I’d worked out intricate background vocals but the girls refused to learn them. Finally I said, “Just sing `Baby, baby, baby’.” It worked to their advantage and worked perfectly.

They didn’t necessarily agree. Diana and I were throwing obscenities back and forth and she went running to Berry [[Gordy, Jr.) and told him I said something off color about him. He came down to the studio to see what was wrong and while he was there, he asked to hear the song. He thought it was really good, but said that he didn’t know if it was a hit, but that he thought it would be Top 10.

The song was released and flew up the charts to #1. From then on, one hit followed another. It was the first of 13 consecutive #1s we did on the Supremes. The next time the Hollands and I saw the girls was at the airport. They were getting off a plane with their Yorkshire terriers, in mink stoles. We started laughing. It was so funny to see them turn into stars overnight.

[PeaceNHarmony]

Wow! So many posters who know exactly how the WDOLG sessions proceeded. There must have been about 4,673 people present for the recording!

[marv2]

I disagree that Scherrie should have done the whole lead for He’s My Man. I agree she has a phenomenal voice but also tends to over sing a lot.

You ever hear her do "Stoned Love" live? I have to pay very close attention to see if it is the same song the Supremes did in 1970. hehehehehehehe!

[Bluebrock]

Sup where is the info for Motown wanting "Been Said Before" as the first single coming from? I would think if they were interested in the group at all they would not have wanted to send them out of the gate with Scherrie on a cover version as Bobby Hutton had already done the song in 1973.
It is mentioned in the track listings on the Anthology double cd from the 80's. It says the release was cancelled, but i think it had been given a catalogue number.

[blackguy69]

You must’ve been the one sitting near the control booth telling Mary stop complaining and record the damn song.
Wow! So many posters who know exactly how the WDOLG sessions proceeded. There must have been about 4,673 people present for the recording!

[marv2]

You must’ve been the one sitting near the control booth telling Mary stop complaining and record the damn song.

What is ironic is that there is a photo of Mary Wilson addressing a Motown staff meeting hanging in that control booth right now at Hitsville! [[aka Motown Museum). LOL!

[BigAl]

My favourite version, possibly because it was the one I heard first, was by Ramona King.
I had forgotten about that one! It came out in close succession along with Merry Clayton’s and Betty Everett’s.

I still much prefer Betty's, but was surprised when I just researched Ramona's to see that it was arranged by Jack Nitzsche!

I believe that the original title was simply “It’s in His Kiss,” and that VJ retitled it, “The Shoop Shoop Song,” adding “It’s in His Kiss” below it on the label as a parenthetical. I suppose this was a result of the Blossoms’ very audible “shoops” in background. Of all the versions, I still feel The Supremes' is the weakest by a wide margin.

[midnightman]

Nah, they needed a NEW sound, something that would've kept up with who they were but also bring them a new audience. But since this was in the middle of their dispute with Motown, it wouldn't have made much a difference.

By the way, I prefer Aretha's and Cher's versions of this song.

But Betty Everett's version will never be topped, I don't care if you're a Ronette or a Supreme doing this, you can't top Betty's version. Sorry.

[daviddh]

Mary is not a pop singer but that's what the Supremes needed. scherrie has a pop sound to her so I feel she should have handled most of the leads.
I like It's in His Kiss. I would have released in 74

[marv2]

Mary is not a pop singer but that's what the Supremes needed. scherrie has a pop sound to her so I feel she should have handled most of the leads.
I like It's in His Kiss. I would have released in 74

Mary Wilson is a Pop singer. She's appeared on dozens of Pop hits.

[midnightman]

Mary is a jazzy singer. Nothing pop about her lol

Does her voice work well with pop though? Sure it does.

[blackguy69]

Scherrie isn’t a pop singer either