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KevLo
08-13-2010, 03:04 PM
Hi this is Kev-Lo

Earth Wind And Fire was by far one of the baddest bands ever. And they made such a strong impact in the 70's. Their great music combined of Soul, Funk, And Jazz. So Did They Rule the 70's and are they the best band ever.

timmyfunk
08-13-2010, 03:15 PM
Not by a long shot. If that's the type of music that you prefer, more power to you. But there were plenty of Funk bands and non-Funk bands on the horizon that defined the decade every bit as much EWF.

splanky
08-13-2010, 03:28 PM
I ruled the 70's. People just won't admit it because they think I'll get the big head!...:)

timmyfunk
08-13-2010, 03:39 PM
Now, now. You know damn well that the Splank decade was the 1980's. You better go ask somebody!

splanky
08-13-2010, 04:10 PM
Dang, you're right, Tim, I was still fooling in the 70's....

soulster
08-13-2010, 05:03 PM
Average White Band - For the first three albums on Atlantic, they did no wrong. If their one and only MCA released album had been mixed better, it would have been up there too!

Ohio Players - They funked just as hard as EWF. The problem is that, in their Mercury years, their improvisational style of record production wore thin after "Honey".

The Brothers Johnson - You wanna talk about funk? These guys had funk in their fingers and toes!

EWF! I would say that they were the best-produced R&B band of the 70s!

But, there were more...

marv2
08-13-2010, 05:22 PM
I'd say that EWF were one of the top bands from roughly 1974-78. So I guess you could say the ruled during the mid-70's.

soulster
08-13-2010, 05:39 PM
Around here, they were huge from 1975 to 1979. I never understood the popularity of "I Am", though. It's just not that good of an album, IMO. Too pop oriented, and too many love songs. They even sound tired on the last song "You And I". What I do like about that album on the CD is that it runs several seconds longer that the vinyl.

GeeTee(HPK)
08-13-2010, 06:53 PM
It's really a matter of opinion. I'm not going to say one band was better than the other,but during their "hey day," they were on top of their game. I would say from "Head To the Sky" to "All And All," were their best moments IM0. Also,when they started incoperating magic and levitation in their concert performance,it was one the best shows to see,during the 70s.

marv2
08-13-2010, 07:01 PM
I saw their concert in August 1975 and it was amazing! This was in the days of the large arena concerts. Lots of lights, explosions, inter-galatic costumes and reeferrrrrr.........everywhere! LOL!

GeeTee(HPK)
08-13-2010, 07:21 PM
Hmmmm, I experience that same thing,but it was at a P-Funk concert in 1977 at Soldier Field. [[The Funk Fest) :p :cool: :D

ceasar
08-13-2010, 07:32 PM
As it was said, it is all a matter of what was said in a song to me.
There was always a message in their music.
They always sang songs that were positive.
CEASAR

marv2
08-13-2010, 10:05 PM
GeeTee, I saw the P-Funk Concert tour during same era, Spring 1978 at the Toledo Sports Arena..........it was rather smokey in there as I recall.

marv2
08-13-2010, 10:06 PM
Ceasar they, EWF did always sing with a positive message that we did get as younger people. I appreciated that.

ceasar
08-14-2010, 12:08 AM
They are, and still remain one of my all time favorites.
I never had the chance to meet them, I would consider it an honor.
CEASAR

nomis
08-14-2010, 12:56 AM
Did they have the commercial clout that Chic had at the end of the 70s?Sorry guys I wasnt around in the 70s - Just asking.

daddyacey
08-14-2010, 01:22 AM
The 70's were ruled by a number of groups ,in what I consider the Big Funk Band Era. SLY and the Family Stone , Santana ,The Ohio Players ,E.W.F. ,G.C.S. ,Parliament/Funkadelic ,A.W.B. ,Commodores ,pre Deodato Kool and the Gang and the Isleys in the beginning. You can trace the evolution of those groups in their albums. For example the Westbound O.P. , and Funkadelic material as opposed to O.P.'s ,Mercury albums and E.W.F.'s Warner albums compared to the Columbia albums. The Isleys Buddah albums compared to anything after "It's Your Thing" , and 3&3 and the collective form of RUFUS. Brass Construction ,Slave ,Cameo, Mass Production, S.O.S ,Aurra and Skyy came in as the result of and the next and final wave of the big bands. Each group brought the same level of Funk to the table ,but each had it's own individual flavor ,which avoided the same sameness as the sound of groups [[?), today. Later groups in this class [[after the loss of horns in the formula) ,are Mint Condition and Tony Toni Tone. That's my personal opinion. The "best" of this period would be a personal opinion , because truthfully , all these groups fed off of each other. They only died out because of the digital technology and the resulting change in the taste in music. These "Big Bands slowly became smaller and smaller because of cost and technology..

tsull1
08-14-2010, 01:50 AM
I would say they are one of the major groups that ruled the 70's, but not the only group that did. However, there is no disputing their talent, songwriting ability, production, and live shows [[though I've yet to see them).

My two favorite albums are "That's the Way of the World" and the underrated "Spirit." I do like "I Am" but understand that it is a bit too commercialized.

I've always found it interesting that they're thrown in as a pure funk band when I kind of look at them as funk/soul. I think The Ohio Players and Slave [[two of my favorite funk bands in that order) are more harder/purer funk, while EWF can really crank out the pop/top 40 hits, and actually there's nothing wrong with that. "After the Love Has Gone" is not funk, then again The Ohio Players and Slave have their ballads, too.

I love EWF. I'd say they weren't the rulers of the 70's, but certainly sharing the top spot with some other great groups. Their ability to crossover from funk to soul was/is excellent.

timmyfunk
08-14-2010, 06:57 AM
tsull1 said:
I love EWF. I'd say they weren't the rulers of the 70's, but certainly sharing the top spot with some other great groups. Their ability to crossover from funk to soul was/is excellent.

Up to a point tsull. It became clear that the more popular they became, the overall sound became less intense and more commercial. Something that Funk never aspired to be. While Funk wanted to get their piece of the pie like any other music genre, they wanted to do it on their terms just like classic rock.

splanky
08-14-2010, 08:26 AM
Tim, I would have to say the Funk usually didn't aspire to commercial appeal or that it didn't make it a primary focus but
never is a strong word. Several efforts from basically funk bands were clearly aimed at commercial, popular trends even
from within the P-funk organisation. Parliament's Party People was one with it's lean towards disco. Bootsy's Jungle Bass was another. The Ohio Players also crossed the line more than once, in fact to my ears their entire soundtrack to the b-movie
Mr Mean was a big commercial flop except for the one gem Good Luck Charm...
The irony of EWF is that what Maurice White has called their only disco record, Boogie Wonderland recorded with The Emotions became one of their biggest hits, this from a group that was blending funk, soul, jazz and "world music" before that last term was even coined...

paladin
08-14-2010, 10:47 AM
In my humble opinion they were hard to fit in any given category. They explored several genres of music from funk/r/b/jazz/Brazilian/African etc and they did it amazingly well. They were unique in that aspect and as indicated by other posters they had a positive message in their music. What was even more amazing to me was that the group originated from Chicago although their sound was different from any of their popular predecessors. Whether they released long form or short form recordings, they had hit on something that was very popular for the time period. Am amazing story if I ever heard one.....

splanky
08-14-2010, 11:40 AM
Well said, paladin. It was quite phenomenal what Maurice White created and later Phillip Bailey helped to mold, I only wished
that they could have remained innovative front runners instead of following trends and recycling hits...I wish someone would
write their story from a objective point of view and not a fan gush perspective. Maurice's life has been quite a ride...

ladyvanaye
08-14-2010, 12:26 PM
I would say that EWF was the most impressionable group during the 70's having seen them perform during that time into the 80's. Their hit to hit ratio was probably more than any other R&B/Funk/Soul/Disco factored group at that time and the stage performances could not be beat in some for instances. However wonderful and sometimes funky as their music was, I got my "FUNKACISM"s on else wheres a/k/a Parliament-Funkadelic and the Commodores who were just as impressionable to and for me. On a lower scale of hit to hit ratio, I have to shout our Tower of Power as well, who while low on the radar, has made some serious music in the line of the groups named above. Shout of to WAR too - very impressionable. :)

soulster
08-14-2010, 02:09 PM
tsull, let's put it this way: EWF crossed over like no other R&B band in the 70s did, besides the Commodores.

marv2
08-14-2010, 03:33 PM
"Mighty, Mighty" was some serious funk like no other in 1974.
"Devotion" was deep even though at that time I did not know how to really interpret the song.
"Reasons" from '75 is a song for the ages, sounds as good now as it did then.
"Shining Star" was about empowerment and highly danceable even though it is not classified as Disco.
"That's The Way of the World" was also very deep and had a mournful quality to it that all humans can relate to.
I can go on an on and I shall at a later point, but I'd to point out that in my opinion, EWF start to slip away from me when they recorded and released "Got To Get You Into My Life" and "September". They were high quality recordings but did not please me. I can recall in those days a band or a group had to have a new release every 4 to 6 months as there was so much great music and artist to chose from then. I wonder if that thought worked against EWF?

paladin
08-14-2010, 05:36 PM
Thanks & I agree with you Splanky, but I realize that comes as no surprise. :cool:

Dyvanaye, I'm really feeling you on the funk tip. War immediately came to mind when I was posting as did OP, and Tower of Power. Lets face it, what we are really talking about is a "Renaissance" period of music. Groups like Cameo,P-Funk,War,Osibisa, Skyy, Slave, Confunkshun, Bar Kays,Mass Production,Isleys, Brass Construction, James Brown, Commodores where really bringing it and as a consumer/music lover, I was as happy as a sissy in boys town, whatever that means..........but realistically I fear that we shall never see their like again and that's sad but their music will live on, "Its the Way of the World".:p

GeeTee(HPK)
08-14-2010, 06:36 PM
Last month, I did a 3 hour special covering EWF. [[from their days with Warner Brothers to the early mid 80s)
I hope some of you caught that program. :) [[we talked about this,before the new format went into effect,and I think that thread is still up on the old forum,if you feel like reading it. ) :)

timmyfunk
08-15-2010, 02:36 AM
I don't know if there are Funk records that totally aimed for crossover. In my view, the more commercial a Funk act wanted to be, the more their records turned into R&B records and stopped becoming Funk records. You may have some examples of Funk records that may not have been total attempts at crossover, but attained that level of success regardless [[Shining Star, Fire, Back In Love Again, etc..), but I do think that it represents a small percentage compared to the Street Funk acts that were totally geared towards the young African-American population [[P-Funk, Fatback Band...).

EWF lost me around the same time that Marv pointed out. I almost looked at it as a toe to toe battle with P-Funk:

That's The Way Of The World vs. Mothership Connection
Spirit vs. The Clones Of Dr. Funkenstein
Gratitude vs. Parliament Live

I have to leave the Westbound albums out of the picture, as those albums are on too much of a different mindset than anything EWF was putting out. The toe to toe competition [[mind you, this is only for the sake of this conversation)really heated up with...

All In All vs. Funkentelechy Vs. The Placebo Syndrome

After that, it's a little down hill...

The Best Of EWF vs. One Nation Under A Groove

I Am vs. Motor Booty Affair

Go Wiggle!

timmyfunk
08-15-2010, 02:38 AM
P.S.: While they may have blended many styles into their music, the Funk was definitely at the base of it all.

daddyacey
08-15-2010, 03:53 AM
"the Funk was definitely at the base of it all."
That's a fact ,But............the evil entity of commercializm and crossover eventually comes into play in ALL genres of music at one point or another. The first albums of all the groups mentioned so far are the most artistic than the latter works and yes it does wind up being in the long run ,a toe to toe competition. What , the element of commercial appeal ,has an effect on the Funk and the creativity is subject to individual taste. I agree with Timmyfunk's and Marvs time line as to the point of when the Funk started to disintergrate ,so to speak. The Niecy ,Emotions and Pockets projects in the beginning were great, but Boogie Wonderland ,lost me. I remember thinking back then why? The same thing with War's "Galaxy" ,Fatbacks "Is This The Future? and Funkadelics "One Nation". "Going To See My Baby" and even "Bus Stop" by Fatback were Funky Dance tracks before those type of tracks were "labeled" as Disco ,so why change??? Yes, " After that, it's a little down hill..."

soulster
08-15-2010, 07:46 AM
Marv, I dug "Got To Get You Into My Life", but still cannot stand "September". The worst of it is that the latter is their best-seller and most popular with the pop crowd.

timmyfunk
08-15-2010, 08:54 AM
While I see "One Nation..." as something that is contrived to be a hit, pop top ten hit single or album. They had the masses [[primarily African-American) crossover to them, not the other way around. As far as I'm concerned, the same vibe that runs through "One Nation..." runs through "Better By The Pound".

soulster
08-15-2010, 12:15 PM
While I see "One Nation..." as something that is contrived to be a hit, pop top ten hit single or album. They had the masses [[primarily African-American) crossover to them, not the other way around.

That logic does not make sense to me. How do you figure Blacks are crossing over to something like "One Nation..."?

timmyfunk
08-15-2010, 03:26 PM
Prior to 1976, P-Funk was an underground musical movement, even within the context of African-American culture. But when they blew up with "Mothership Connection", they quickly had the African American audience sowed up in a way that very few Black artists have.

splanky
08-15-2010, 04:09 PM
Tim, you're right about that but maybe we're better off saying "crossed back". Early Parliament and Funkadelic records were
getting played down south but in the north, except for college radio stations and one jock-Frankie Crocker, most ignored
George's groups. Even later into the 70's I remember one day when I was hanging out with my crew we had some vinyl we'd
copped and we bumped into our "elder", the projects most famous resident, Leroy Burgess. I had a copy of Funkadelic's
Greatest Hits under my arm, the album with the sheep on the cover, Leroy took it from me, looked it over, laughed and said
"Funkadelic never had any greatest hits"...

paul1970
08-15-2010, 04:41 PM
Prior to 1976, P-Funk was an underground musical movement, even within the context of African-American culture. But when they blew up with "Mothership Connection", they quickly had the African American audience sowed up in a way that very few Black artists have.

I would say that is correct because i know that when i was growing up in the 1970's that i wouldn't hear P-Funk unless it was on the radio.

When our family would get together back then the older Aunts,Uncles and people like my mom would only want to hear Millie Jackson,Johnnie Taylor,Tyrone Davis,Blues or older stuff like Booker T & The M.G's Green Onions,Stax..etc.

My older brother was the only person that i knew that would buy a lot of records[[which he gave to me).

But he was mainly into EWF,Marvin Gaye,Peabo Bryson,Teddy,Jazz but no P- Funk.

I'm guessing the reason for that is because their music/appearance was too "out there" so to speak.

marv2
08-15-2010, 05:01 PM
Marv, I dug "Got To Get You Into My Life", but still cannot stand "September". The worst of it is that the latter is their best-seller and most popular with the pop crowd.

I know exactly what you mean. I had just moved to Colorado when "September" was released and it extremely heavy rotation on the radio out there. I was still humming "Lover's Holiday" where "September" sounding bland, corny and overly simplistic [[in terms of lyrical content) to me. This is exactly the road that Lionel Ritchies was starting to take at that time. Ugh!

soulster
08-15-2010, 05:03 PM
Thing of it is, Parliament/Funkadelic really only had two or three crossover hits.

pshark
08-15-2010, 05:07 PM
KISS, THE WHO, LED ZEPPELIN, ROLLING STONES[[probably the most successful touring band ever), PETER FRAMPTON, BEE GEES, ELTON JOHN, DAVID BOWIE, VILLAGE PEOPLE:eek: pretty much ruled the 70's. Yes EWF was major but they water downed their music in the late 70's to be accepted to the pop world. Same as COMMODORES and we all know what happened to KOOL & THE GANG:mad: P-FUNK got a little commercial but not to the point where they were devoid of Funk. But the bottom line for me is I'm gonna dig whoever I dig regardless of how successful they are. And most of the bands I dig are unknown to the close minded pop world.
OK since the subject of this thread is EARTH WIND & FIRE, then let's check them out.
The band that GOD sent down from Heaven.
Presenting the elements of the World
EARTH WIND & FIRE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9z3vqPVz04

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8_oOQTNCzU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcoLEaQ7rQ4&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctv6RdsdJM0&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCOLluokUH4&feature=related

timmyfunk
08-16-2010, 12:57 AM
Which, like I said, may have been contrived to be hits, but not crossover hits. On the R&B charts, they amassed six number one hits [[five of those hits came within a two year period). This coming from a band that no one expected to have hits, much less top 40 hits. And as been pointed out before, P-Funk defined commercialism on their terms. EWF's most commercial hits almost sound like they could have been recorded by someone else, which can never be said about the P-Funk hits.

daddyacey
08-16-2010, 03:55 AM
The KEY word here is HITS. Success = Hits. The first two Sly and The Family Stone albums , the first two E.W.F. albums ,the Pain ,Pleasure and Ectasy albums by The Ohio Players and Funkadelics 6 albums for Westbound ,were not accepted by the majority of the African American audience. They were listened to and followed by the African American college students and people that were tuned into the "advante garde" or other than mainstream Soul audience. There was a definate division in what one side listed to or was open to ,there was Soul/Funk/ R+B and what was Rock and Jazz influeneced Soul/Rock R+B . African Americans who were into those groups at that time were also into groups such as B.S.T. ,Chicago ,Led Zepp and Grand Funk. I had many friends who were not into Sly ,Funkadelic and The O.P. "Stand" was the point when more of the African American audience was into Sly , Skin Tight for The O.P. , Last Days In Time for E.W.F ,"Stage" for Funkadelic. As the African American audience grew ,the chance to Crossover grew along with it. The best material by all the groups mentioned here in this thread ,wasn't no hit, in terms of commercial value. Maggot Brain ,Sex Machine and I Think about Loving You can't be considered "hits" ,but that don't take away from them being classic tracks.

timmyfunk
08-16-2010, 08:19 AM
And the difference is that all of the groups you've listed eventually had top ten and number one hits on the Billboard pop charts, except P-Funk. That is part of the mystique. Damn near every mover and shaker in Black Music has met that criteria somewhere in their career. P-Funk is the lone exception. Even James Brown, as much as we would like to put his music in a pro-Black context, has had top ten and top five hits. In many ways P-Funk maybe the biggest black cultural phenomenon in recent memory, and by that I mean that they represented a Black musical revolution that seized the consciousness of the African American community, yet got no love outside of the hood.

All of this is to say that no one band or performer in 1970's Black Music ruled the decade. Everyone shared the pie and went back for seconds.

destruction
08-16-2010, 08:35 AM
Let me ask a similar queston.

Who was Bigger than EWF in 1970's Black Music? Not as big....but BIGGER.

And I'm referring to the Whole EWF experience.

Just Curious.

timmyfunk
08-16-2010, 09:07 AM
The Jackson Five/Jacksons? A lot more pop hits under their belt throughout the decade.

ollie
08-16-2010, 10:35 AM
EWF didn't rule the 70's!
Let me try Des. Not all are bands as requested by Kev-Lo, but you'll get my point.

Stevie Wonder [[especially his Superstition-Higher Ground, As, Pastime Paradise), The Temptations [[especially with Papa was a Roller), Marvin Gaye [[What's Going On), The Isley Brothers [[Who's That Lady), Rose Royce [[Car Wash), Donny Hathaway [[The Ghetto) and of course Curtis Mayfield where huge in the country that i grew up in. Bigger than EWF.
Maybe that has to do with the history of those bands or musicians, a lot of them where already established artists from back in the days.
Most of the good stuff from EWF wasn't available to us normal people back then. Lot's of us only had the chance to listen to the music the record companies wanted us to listen to.
They started to play EWF more when EWF changed the musical formular to September or Boogie Woogie Land.

daddyacey
08-17-2010, 04:22 AM
ollie , That's an interesting point of view. May I ask ,what country are you from?
In comparison ,I'm an African American from New York City. Back when E.W.F. released their first Warner album ,there was no air play on Black Radio or any other market and only a few people knew of the group. The second album had the beautiful track ,"I Think About Loving You" , which did get some airplay and was a slow jam played at Black parties in the eastern inner cities of N.Y. ,Jersey ,Philly and Washington D.C. The first Columbia album ,"Last Day's" , Had "Time Is On Your Side" and "Where Have All The Flowers Gone" , and was also played on Black radio ,although not in rotation. That's classic E.W.F. Compare it to the catipillar in the cacoon. At this point E.W.F. was most popular with college and progressive Soul music fans ,because of the melding of Jazz ,Funk and Soul elements. From there it was all uphill , cutting edge until after "Gratitude and Ramsey's "Sun Goddess". From there ..................

ollie
08-17-2010, 04:46 AM
Daddyacey i grew up in Germany/D'dorf and learned from a few funky friends that EWF had really good music on the early albums. Nothing of the early stuff was ever played on radio, they only started to play EWF on air when the music in my opinion wasn't so good anymore. Not that i have a problem with other people's musical taste, but the later stuff wasn't as interesting to me as the early records. My own personal musical taste always seemed to differ from the masses anyway.
In the 80's EWF had a cult status of being a major FUNK band in Germany. But they took the September or Boogie Wonderland Funk as the base for that, and people who know more than the average knew that that wasn't right. EWF can FUNK the hell out of anybody, but money and softening the FUNK was the game back then and still is.

WaltB
08-17-2010, 06:21 AM
I think that Earth, Wind & Fire were at least until the death of Charles Stepney on a path that elevated them into a level of success where no other large black group had attained [[Shout Outs to the Ohio Players and Isley Brothers as well). Maurice while more than a competent producer seemed to lack something that Stepney provided the group. As I worked in retail throughout the 70's I can recall the constant competition between EW&F and The Isley Brothers as well as Stevie Wonder. Those three acts provided the most anticipation when new product was in the pipeline. I only wonder how long Earth, Wind & Fire could have continued the mystique that they seemed to posess had Charles Stepney lived past That's The Way Of The World.

splanky
08-17-2010, 10:57 AM
WaltB, have you forgotten Mr Stepney did write for and do production work for the Spirit album though sadly he died
during the recording sessions?...

WaltB
08-17-2010, 02:25 PM
You're right Splanky! it's been a lot of years...

tamla617
08-19-2010, 05:28 PM
great vids!
splanky.... charles stepney had a small b +w photo and in memory of on spirit back cover.
nothing ruled the '70's really did it?
end of the detroit motown
then the philly sound kicked off
the live acts that took your breath away were ewf,war and the pfunk tours.
the early 70's what about the jb's
ewf had 5/6 good albums 72-79
kool and the gang's funky stuff was THE anthem,they were great too 'till they got a vocalist and went disco,celebrate,ladies night
ohio players with the pain/pleasure/climax thing then on to mercury for skin tight, fire and honey.
war went thru the 70's quite well
bt express 1 great album then faded slowly,by 3rd album for definate
brass construction 1st 2 albums great/good then i lost intrest.
the fatback band with their street funk style. "street dance" [[perception label) was something else
parliament's pfunk 75 onwards and the funkadelic,bootsy collins thing maybe if any one did imo it was the pfunk movement.
bootsy collins bass ruled the 70's jb and pfunk?
or the brekkers they were on everything with the electric sax and trumpet
dont mention disco tho'!
'spose the only way to do it is in record sales

darylb
08-26-2010, 09:29 AM
We as people know that Earth,Wind & Fire's live shows in the mid seventies and early eighties were a thing to witness.Their concerts weren't nothing to sneeze at.You definitely can't compare the same group from then to now,just ain't the same.I really like to know is when the record companies are going to get up their butts and release live Dvd's or Blu Ray's of E,W & F's classsic shows?I mean never before seen concerts of the classic lineup.That's something I've been waiting for the past ten years.I hope and pray they will do it soon!Peace!

tomato tom
08-26-2010, 04:07 PM
I wish Brick was more popular back then. They combined Jazz/Funk/Soul..even a bit of Reggae. Now, I loved ALL the sounds back then from the Ohio Players to Parliament, to EWF, to the Isleys and so on, BUT BRICK just did it for me..Paulo XXX

timmyfunk
08-27-2010, 02:09 PM
I meant to ask this earlier. Why isn't "Head To The Sky" available domestically? I've always thought that all of EWF's album were available in the U.S.. I'm starting to see that that isn't the case.

rbattle921
08-27-2010, 02:26 PM
The short answer is "Yes" among others.