Anything You Would Change About Supremes LPs??

[RanRan79]

To keep the great posts going:

What if you could make ONE change per lp? and if the lp is perfect, then ok. What changes would your make:

Meet & Where - frankly i couldn't change much if anything based on the unreleased material we've already received. I'd maybe like more sharing of the leads and spotlight but since there really isn't much other wonderful material besides what was released, then i'd leave as is

Liverpool - add I Saw Him Standing there

More - would have not included Ask Any Girl and replaced with Remove This Doubt

Symphony - shared leads on Unchained Melody

Merry Christmas - include Mary's Christmas Song

A Go Go - Flo lead on Hang on Sloopy or maybe Boots. But i think she could have done better on Sloopy

Sing HDH - the unreleased version of Heatwave

R&H - flo doing lead on Johnny One Note and included on lp

New Ways - replace Na Na with Life Beats

Jimmy Webb - leave in the can lolol

High Energy - replace I Don't Want to Love you and replace with Can We Love Again

Continuing from another thread...

[RanRan79]

I'm trying to limit them to only one change, but in some cases I just can't. So here are my changes:

Meet the Supremes...if only one change, I might replace "Baby Don't Go" with "The Tears" because I like "Tears" better.

Liverpool...I love the idea of adding "Saw Him Standing There", but even more than that, I would've made every track the Supremes doing the British Invasion as the Motown Sound rather than attempting to recreate the British sound.

Sam Cooke...this is a tie: again I'd have the tracks cut with the Funks instead of in LA and I'd rather hear Florence taking on "A Change Gonna Come" instead of Diana. That was not a good fit.

More Hits...I would remove the repeat of "Ask Any Girl" and replace it with "It's All Your Fault".

Merry Christmas...Another tie: I'd remove the Andantes and replace with Flo and Mary only and I'd replace "Joy to the World" with "Oh Holy Night".

Symphony...I would make the album strictly r&b/pop by removing "Stranger In Paradise", "Without a Song", "With a Song In My Heart", and "Wonderful, Wonderful", replacing them with "Too Much a Little Too Soon", "Take Me Where You Go", "Love Is Like An Itching" and the first version of "It's the Same Old Song". I'd also change the arrangements of "Yesterday" and "Unchained Melody", and I would give Mary the lead on "Yesterday".

A Go Go...Flo lead on "These Boots".

Sing HDH...replace "Same Old Song" and "Heat Wave" with an HDH outtake from A Go Go or with two brand new songs.

Sing R&H...replace "Mountain Greenery", "My Romance", "Thou Swell", "Dancing On the Ceiling" and "Blue Moon" with "Manhattan", "Blue Room", "There's a Small Hotel", "Bewitched" and "I Could Write a Book".

Reflections...cut Ross in a lower key on "Ode to Billy Joe".

[sup_fan]

Symphony...I would make the album strictly r&b/pop by removing "Stranger In Paradise", "Without a Song", "With a Song In My Heart", and "Wonderful, Wonderful", replacing them with "Too Much a Little Too Soon", "Take Me Where You Go", "Love Is Like An Itching" and the first version of "It's the Same Old Song". I'd also change the arrangements of "Yesterday" and "Unchained Melody", and I would give Mary the lead on "Yesterday".



interesting - i like the mix of MOR and Motown. especially since they didn't release There's A Place For Us. plus the motown tracks on the released Symphony lp are really quite elegant. Now i do believe that HDH made massive strides and really honed their productions between Symphony and the aborted Broadway to Hollywood. The instrumental tracks are much more polished and professional on the later. On Symphony things are a bit tinny and the treble is awfully high. The lack the warmth of the B2H set. But i appreciate their trying

All of a Sudden my heart sings was completed but left off the lp

then they started work on Let The Music Play, More, somewhere and Michelle but those weren't completed in time. I think More would have been a great one to add as it's a bit more lively. Kind of like Wonderful Wonderful. add some energy to the lp.

[daviddh]

my list
would not release Liverpool but I do like a few and Flos Saw Him Standing There

More Hits ,replace Ask Any Girl with Owwee Baby

I would have released Theres a Place for us in place of Country,or Liverpool

Sing HDH remove Heatwave/Same Old Song,replace with Itching In My Heart ,Hurry Love....cancel A Go Go

Reflections,remove Up Up and Away,add the Happening

Touch, remove...Time and Love,omg not for me

New Ways remove Bridge...Come Together,replace with more original tracks no covers

Supremes 75 add... can we love again,bend a little,sha la bandit,remove,,,this is why,early morning love,where is it I belong

sing Rogers and Hart ,add Manhattan...love it.

Cream of the Crop,...add beginning of the end of love and Stormy

cancel Funny Girl[[really)...Let The Sunshine In...GIT....jimmy webb

release the Stevie wonder and Promises Kept

[Bluebrock]

my list
would not release Liverpool but I do like a few and Flos Saw Him Standing There

More Hits ,replace Ask Any Girl with Owwee Baby

I would have released Theres a Place for us in place of Country,or Liverpool

Sing HDH remove Heatwave/Same Old Song,replace with Itching In My Heart ,Hurry Love....cancel A Go Go

Reflections,remove Up Up and Away,add the Happening

Touch, remove...Time and Love,omg not for me

New Ways remove Bridge...Come Together,replace with more original tracks no covers

Supremes 75 add... can we love again,bend a little,sha la bandit,remove,,,this is why,early morning love,where is it I belong

sing Rogers and Hart ,add Manhattan...love it.

Cream of the Crop,...add beginning of the end of love and Stormy

cancel Funny Girl[[really)...Let The Sunshine In...GIT....jimmy webb

release the Stevie wonder and Promises Kept
Love your ideas with Supremes75. Replace those poor tracks and you have a very strong album. Good call too with New Ways. Too many cover versions, but i do like their dramatic take on Bridge Over. I also love Manhattan. The best song from the Rogers and Hart sessions. I also love Blue Room. Great choices.

[Fourtopsbiggestfan]

No standards. If there's gonna be covers, they'd be real soul covers and no L.A productions. And there'd be quality productions unlike the sloppy T.C.B recordings. More songs like MOTHER DEAR and GOING DOWN FOR THE THIRD TIME would be concentrated on.

[copley]

Lots & lots and this pertains to 99% of 60's Motown albums. No hoary old standards and no cover versions of current hits Motown or otherwise as with very few exceptions they did not add anything. All killer and no filler!

[RanRan79]

interesting - i like the mix of MOR and Motown. especially since they didn't release There's A Place For Us. plus the motown tracks on the released Symphony lp are really quite elegant. Now i do believe that HDH made massive strides and really honed their productions between Symphony and the aborted Broadway to Hollywood. The instrumental tracks are much more polished and professional on the later. On Symphony things are a bit tinny and the treble is awfully high. The lack the warmth of the B2H set. But i appreciate their trying

All of a Sudden my heart sings was completed but left off the lp

then they started work on Let The Music Play, More, somewhere and Michelle but those weren't completed in time. I think More would have been a great one to add as it's a bit more lively. Kind of like Wonderful Wonderful. add some energy to the lp.

I just prefer the group tackling what Motown did best. Because many of the MOR stuff showcases great vocal performances by the girls, I like that stuff too, which is fine on a There's a Place for Us or Broadway to Hollywood or Rodgers and Hart. But as a fan, had I been around at the time, I think I would've been pissed to purchase the Symphony album and get MOR tracks. In my mind you have to separate these sides of the group. WDOLG, More Hits, both built around big hit singles. I think Symphony should have followed that format.

I agree about B2H. The sound is much warmer than the previous efforts.

[RanRan79]

I would have released Theres a Place for us in place of Country,or Liverpool


I think Liverpool was a damn good idea. It was the execution that was the problem. The British groups loved American R&B but they didn't try to be what they loved. Forcing the Supremes sing to a mock British band sound was just a horrible idea. There was a way to pay homage to the British sound without abandoning the Motown sound. Did Gordy and company have any idea how much those British groups would've killed to be a part of the Motown sound? Dumb decision.

And while I LOVE LOVE LOVE the country album, I'm going to have to agree that they could've done without this one. Half the album was intended for the Ballads and Blues album for 1963. Motown should've done that one, especially since the girls didn't have an album release that year. Scratch C&W and release Place For Us would've made better sense.

[sup_fan]

Love your ideas with Supremes75. Replace those poor tracks and you have a very strong album. Good call too with New Ways. Too many cover versions, but i do like their dramatic take on Bridge Over. I also love Manhattan. The best song from the Rogers and Hart sessions. I also love Blue Room. Great choices.

I'm fine with a couple of the covers on NWBLS. Bridge and Come at least seem to fit in with the vibe of the lp. Na Na would have been a better fit on Right On. Seems out of place here and so i'd replace that one but am fine with the others. in place of Na, i might use Mind Body and Soul [[yes another cover but a better one and fits the sound of the lp better) or Life Beats. Perhaps Day Will Come Between Sunday and monday

For Sup 75, they frankly could have pulled together a strong pop lp PRIOR to the release of sup 75. The tracks like Sha La, Color my world, Give out, it's all been said, shoop, can't stop a girl, can we love again, seed of love and you turn me around would have made a solid and impressive pop-based lp. return the girls to the charts with something everyone could enjoy.

THEN release a disco dance album later with He's My Man, Where Do i Go, This is why, dance fever, etc

[mowsville]

Totally and utterly agree with no standards and all Funk Brothers no L.A recordings...I Hear A Symphony could have been a classic like More Hits....looking back Motown made some real BIG mistakes besides the real BIG successes they had.

[sup_fan]

I think Liverpool was a damn good idea. It was the execution that was the problem. The British groups loved American R&B but they didn't try to be what they loved. Forcing the Supremes sing to a mock British band sound was just a horrible idea. There was a way to pay homage to the British sound without abandoning the Motown sound. Did Gordy and company have any idea how much those British groups would've killed to be a part of the Motown sound? Dumb decision.

And while I LOVE LOVE LOVE the country album, I'm going to have to agree that they could've done without this one. Half the album was intended for the Ballads and Blues album for 1963. Motown should've done that one, especially since the girls didn't have an album release that year. Scratch C&W and release Place For Us would've made better sense.

in the 60s, the cost of an album was somewhat prohibitive. teens and kids didn't have access to the volume of disposable income or allowances and there wasn't the high levels of consumerism that there is today. Some of the "concept" albums were actually aimed at a more adult audience. let the kids buy the cheaper 45s and the parents buy things like CWP and Sam Cooke. Also in early and mid 65, the Supremes weren't as established in the high-end entertainment world. Berry had to really work on the producers for Hullabaloo and Sullivan to allow the girls to sing non motown content. The goal being that this would open up the supper clubs, Copa, Vegas and other high-paying venues to book the girls. And this would allow much higher concert fees and income.

By the time the Symphony lp had been released, the girls had been successful at the Copa and at Lincoln Center. these were huge breakthroughs. and the lp reflected that

i do think this approach eventually cause the teen record buyers to start to lose interest in the girls. fortunately HDH kept things hot with Can't Hurry love, Hanging on, reflections. but as we saw they lps started to become weaker and charting lower, singles began to struggle.

[lucky2012]

Hmm. One change per lp...

Meet The Supremes: remove Who's Loving You or I Want a Guy; add The Tears
WDOLG: remove Standing at the Crossroads; add Gone [[But Always In My Heart)
More Hits: remove Ask Any Girl; add Remove This Doubt
Merry Christmas: remove Joy to the World; add Silent Night [[polish Flo's vocal)
IHAS: remove He's All I Got [[move to HDH); add Let the Music Play [[alternate vocal)
Go-Go: remove Put Yourself In My Place [[move to HDH); add It's the Same Old Song
HDH: remove It's the Same Old Song; add Put Yourself In My Place
Reflections: remove Bah-Bah-Bah; add Heaven Must Have Sent You
Love Child: remove He's My Sunny Boy; add Bah-Bah-Bah

Let The Sunshine In/Cream of the Crop: remove several and combine the rest in one

Delete: Bit of Liverpool/Jimmy Webb/Supremes 1975



And while I LOVE LOVE LOVE the country album, I'm going to have to agree that they could've done without this one. Agree. Maybe release some songs as a mini-album. In 1965, I think there was too much product.

I appreciate the standards on IHAS/Rodgers & Hart and Funny Girl but There's A Place For Us/Broadway To Hollywood/Disney Classics would have been overkill.

Promises Kept too weak to be released.

[sup_fan]

I agree that as a whole, what we've received for the "Promises Kept" sessions doesn't strike me as amazing. But then again, they recorded the song Floy Joy months prior to the album. So maybe if one of these songs was released and hit, that producer[[s) would have had an opportunity to create something more.

I do like Tears Left Over [[frank wilson) and Can't get you out of my mind [[i think A&S?)

Never Can Say Goodbye was another strong one and would have made an excellent Sup song had it not gone to J5. Others i liked are I'll Let Him Know and And I Thought You Loved Me

[RanRan79]

Meet The Supremes: remove Who's Loving You or I Want a Guy; add The Tears


I considered making multiple changes to Meet by removing the two songs you mention and "He's 17", all three are tracks I never make a point to play specifically. The only reason why I left them as is because I get that the album was basically all the singles, both A and B sides, with two or three filler cuts added in. But I definitely could've did without "Guy", "Lovin You", "17" and "Baby Don't Go". I would've put "The Boy That Got Away", "Those DJ Shows", "Too Hot" and "The Tears" in their place. Might consider "Heavenly Father" or "Because I Love Him" as I do like those too.

[RanRan79]

I agree that as a whole, what we've received for the "Promises Kept" sessions doesn't strike me as amazing. But then again, they recorded the song Floy Joy months prior to the album. So maybe if one of these songs was released and hit, that producer[[s) would have had an opportunity to create something more.

I do like Tears Left Over [[frank wilson) and Can't get you out of my mind [[i think A&S?)

Never Can Say Goodbye was another strong one and would have made an excellent Sup song had it not gone to J5. Others i liked are I'll Let Him Know and And I Thought You Loved Me

If I had to make an album from the PK sessions:

Make It With You
I'll Let Him Know I Love Him
Never Can Say Goodbye
Tears Left Over
Take a Look Inside

Still Water Love
Take Your Dreams Back
Chained to Yesterday
I Aint That Easy to Lose
It's Too Late

"Never Can Say Goodbye" might have had hit potential if not first released by the J5. Aside from that, only "Tears" and "Dreams Back" I think had any chance of doing anything as a single. And then of course we have to keep in mind whether or not these were totally finished products or not. "Still Water" sounds like it's unfinished to me. So we judge what we hear, but what we hear may not be what was going to be the sound released at the time.

[sup_fan]

do you think they could have helped out the PK set by going back to some of the earlier canned material:

Life Beats
The Day with come between sunday and monday
Mind body and soul
All i need
Steppin' on a dream
You gotta pay the price

[daviddh]

just want to say yes to the use of Funk Brothers and no LA guys. would have made a difference in many recording.one of the reasons i cant get into Go GO but some good songs, i do like Shake Me Wake Me and This Old Heart Of Mine.
i do like Country but i would have revamped it as Meet the Supremes.i do not like what came out as Meet.
i just rememebered Mr Blues, and DJ Shows. i like both of these songs,darn i could go on
Floy Joy, there is one out take. i would remove O B My Love,never cared for it

[sup_fan]

in the 70s i would have worked to remove the Andantes and other backing vocalists. Especially on Floy Joy. that was an amazing album but there's no reason JMC couldn't have been layered in with multiple vocals as opposed to bringing in the As

And a lot of the Jean material is with Andantes. almost all of the stuff by Clay McMurray is

[rovereab]

As already mentioned, I would have never included the lame LA recordings during the 60s era. The Supremes and Motown were "as one" and I expected their songs to sound accordingly. Funk Brothers all the way!

In respect of the standards, I would have kept them away from the albums that "followed the hits" and produced specific standards album, perhaps with the moniker of "The Sound Of Old America" :) That way I could have cheerfully avoided such output!

[TomatoTom123]

I would have changed Country, Western & Pop by not recording it.

LOL I REALLY HAVE IT IN FOR THAT ALBUM TODAY :D:D:D

[TomatoTom123]

In respect of the standards, I would have kept them away from the albums that "followed the hits" and produced specific standards album, perhaps with the moniker of "The Sound Of Old America" :) That way I could have cheerfully avoided such output!

Yes please! :)

[blackguy69]

in the 70s i would have worked to remove the Andantes and other backing vocalists. Especially on Floy Joy. that was an amazing album but there's no reason JMC couldn't have been layered in with multiple vocals as opposed to bringing in the As

And a lot of the Jean material is with Andantes. almost all of the stuff by Clay McMurray isa most of that material went unreleased

[johnjeb]

But as a fan, had I been around at the time, I think I would've been pissed to purchase the Symphony album and get MOR tracks. In my mind you have to separate these sides of the group. WDOLG, More Hits, both built around big hit singles. I think Symphony should have followed that format.

I was around and bought the Symphony album when it was released. Because it was The Supremes I loved it BUT as a teenager I would have preferred more Pop, especially Motown. Years later I learned that HDH was going for a music theme on Side 1. Most of the albums in the Top 20 during this period were MOR adult-oriented albums featuring standards, ballads, movie themes etc.

My suggestion for a more teen-oriented Symphony LP but still including some standards [[removing only Stranger In Paradise and Without A Song):

Side 1:
I Hear A Symphony
Lovers Concerto
Unchained Melody
Moonlight Serenade [[adult-themed MOR, also done by Frank S., Ella F. and others)
With A Song In My Heart
Let The Music Play [[track had been recorded but vocals not done yet)

Side 2:
Yesterday
My World Is Empty Without You
Any Girl In Love
He's All I Got
Everything Is Good About You
Wonderful, Wonderful

Ironically Motown released a song in 1964 on Tony Martin which might have worked for this album as AC/MOR "Our Rhapsody" M 1071-B; TCMS Disc 21 [Vol 4, Disc 6, Track 12] Producer: Hal Davis, Marc Gordon; Composer-Lyricist: Billy Page; Publisher: Jobete.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wn-TkRn49_8

Coincidentally, the same month the Symphony album was released, a Lou Christie single "Rhapsody In The Rain" was released, continuing with Pop classical-oriented titles! It was bubble-gum Pop.

[johnjeb]

For starters it would have been nice to have at least one song each from Mary and Flo on every album. Or, at the very least, a song from either Mary or Flo on every album. WDOLG and MH definitely established Diana as the lead singer, so a song from one of the other group members on their subsequent albums would have been a treat.

I think a strong Side 1, such as on WDOLG and MH, can make an album. I've always said that my favorite Temptations album is With A Lot Of Soul. A few years ago I was embarrassed to realize that I only knew one song by its' title on Side 2 [[which is still true to this day). Many Supremes albums would probably have worked better loading Side 1 with the best [[or most similar in style, tempo etc.) 6 songs of the 12 chosen for that album. Back in the day we had to turn the record over, oftentimes we would just replay the one side that we preferred or that was still sitting on the turntable.

I tried to limit my changes, for the most part, to the song selections chosen by Motown for each album rather than choose from unreleased material even if I like certain unreleased songs better than what was released.

I always thought HDH was a mediocre album, mostly due to the order of the songs. You have Hangin' On followed by Always In My Heart - that didn't work for me. I would have ordered it as:
Side 1
You Keep Me Hangin' On
Going Down For The Third Time
I Guess I'll Always Love You
Love Is Here And Now You're Gone
Mother You, Smother You
There's No Stopping Us Now
Side 2
Remove This Doubt
I'll Turn To Stone
It's The Same Old Song
Heat Wave
Love In Our Hearts
Always In My Heart
[[I would have preferred not to have Same Old Song or Heat Wave)

For the Love Child album I would have put Some Things as lead song on Side 2 and moved either Chains Of Love, Set You Free or Shake It Loose to round-out Side 1.

For the Let The Sunshine album I would have cut Aquarius, Child's Heart and Everyday People and included Ain't No Sun Since You've Been Gone, End Of Love and Nitty Gritty and renamed it No Matter What Sign You Are
Side1
No Matter What Sign You Are
Discover Me [[And You’ll Discover Love)
The Beginning Of The End Of Love
Ain’t No Sun Since You’ve Been Gone
The Nitty Gritty
I’m Livin’ In Shame
Side 2
The Composer
Let The Music Play
What Becomes Of The Brokenhearted
Hey Western Union Man
Will This Be The Day
I’m So Glad I Got Somebody [[Like You Around)

For New Ways - either change title to Stone Love or New Ways, Love Stays [[don't need the But! or the busy cover montage). Have Side 1 with a theme or "sound" rather than trying to spread it over two sides. Side 2 could be a more familiar Supremes sound.
Side 1
Together We Can Make Such Sweet Music
Stone Love
It’s Time To Break Down
Shine On Me
Thank Him For Today
Side 2
Life Beats
I Wish I Were Your Mirror
You’ve Got To Pay The Price
Is There A Place [[In His Heart For Me)
Na Na Hey Hey Kiss Him Goodbye

[lucky2012]

^ Great post. I like the way you think!


For starters it would have been nice to have at least one song each from Mary and Flo on every album. Or, at the very least, a song from either Mary or Flo on every album. Yes.


I think a strong Side 1, such as on WDOLG and MH, can make an album. I've always said that my favorite Temptations album is With A Lot Of Soul. I really like Side 1 of Temptations Sing Smokey.
I really like your versions of HDH and NWBLS. LSS was never a favorite album but your version is a definite improvement.

[RanRan79]

do you think they could have helped out the PK set by going back to some of the earlier canned material:

Life Beats
The Day with come between sunday and monday
Mind body and soul
All i need
Steppin' on a dream
You gotta pay the price

Maybe "Life Beats", "MBS", "Steppin On a Dream" and "Price". Yeah, that might have beefed up the lineup better.

[RanRan79]

As already mentioned, I would have never included the lame LA recordings during the 60s era. The Supremes and Motown were "as one" and I expected their songs to sound accordingly. Funk Brothers all the way!

In respect of the standards, I would have kept them away from the albums that "followed the hits" and produced specific standards album, perhaps with the moniker of "The Sound Of Old America" :) That way I could have cheerfully avoided such output!

That's my thinking. "Where", "More Hits" were big albums because everyone was buying them. Sure the adults might have been pleasantly surprised to hear non Motownish material on "Symphony", but the kids I imagine would've been a bit pissed. I know I would have. And of the hit centered albums, pop wise, it would only hit #8, which would be the lowest charting for a Supremes hit centered album until the Reflections album two years later. Surprisingly the album hit number one R&B though.

[lucky2012]

Well, I was a kid, a mere child [[not even a teen) when my mom bought the IHAS album. I wasn't pissed at all. I was glad to hear the Supremes sing anything. [[Luckily, I didn't hear Bit of Liverpool until years later. That first song, "How Do You Do It", was off-putting!) I was actually enchanted by the "standards" on IHAS, and especially by the way Diana sang. My mom bought the album for me & my sister, but she and my dad were impressed that a "rock" group could sing so well. That album opened up new worlds of pop music for me, so that I was "ready" when the Rodgers & Hart album came along a year later.
IHAS may have only reached #8 on the pop album chart but I believe it eventually sold 1.9 million copies [[More Hits sold 1.7 million, WDOLG over 3.0 million, Go-Go over 3.5 million, Sing HDH 1.5 million and Love Child over 1.0 million). *I can't vouch for these figures from Wikipedia, however.

[daviddh]

i liked the Symphony lp ,but i wasnt really into Lovers Concerto. thought Stranger in Paradise was great ,loved Flos backing vocal on it.
forgot about Love Train, to bad they didn't have that on Touch, in place of Time..Love.
Life Beats is a fav and I would have included it in Right On.

[gman]

Love Train, to bad they didn't have that on Touch, in place of Time..Love.

Excellent idea....I abhor Time and Love....remove T&L, put Johnny Raven in that spot and have Love Train close out side 1

[sup_fan]

problem is I don't think Love Train was recorded and release by the O'Jays until 72. after the Touch lp was recorded and issued

I agree that T&L is a mess. such an interruption to an otherwise stunning album. this huge 5th Dimension knock off comes out of no where. and the slot in the album is all wrong too - after the thoughtful Have I Lost You and before the ballad Touch.

MAYBE time and love could have fit into NWBLS. At least the message of the lyric sort of fits in there. Some people are not fans of the girls' Come Together so many start Side 2 of NWBLS with T&L?

[RanRan79]

"Time and Love" should have been left in the vaults. I think Jean does a great vocal, but because it sounds so out of place on Touch, it's hard to enjoy it for what it is. Then I heard Diana's vocal on the same track and really liked it. I don't think the song would've fit any better- sound wise- on New Ways. Maybe the Jimmy Webb album.