Cindy Birdsong saved the Supremes

[jim aka jtigre99]

In my opinion and in retrospect, once Florence was no longer in the group the Supremes had the problem of going on. Cindy was the perfect replacement. She slightly resembled Florence but did not have Flo's big, booming first Soprano sound but a softer second Soprano. Had the wrong replacement been put in the group it may have hurt them. She really fit into the glamour image they were cultivating and looked great next to Mary. Mary become the powerful voice in the background and since during this period they were doing more and more standards and television that was something that Mary's voice really lent to doing well. If the look and blend had been wrong, it may have been bad for the group and the general public may have lost interest in the group. Diana Ross may have been seen as too ambitious as the time and wrongly accused of putting out members for her own ascension which may have caused a backlash against her. Cindy really saved the group to go on by being a good fit and a team player. She was essential even later with both the Jean and Scherrie groupings. I don't think Cindy gets her due for her importance in the Supremes history and legacy.

[PeaceNHarmony]

I agree fully and always have done! Cindy Birdsong is, in my estimation, the most heroic Supreme. Always gracious and never trying to hog the spotlight or cash in on what I am sure is a passel of juicy stories from her replacing Florence Ballard to her final days as a Supreme Cindy was always the epitome of class and dignity even, we are told, deciding against publishing a memoir when she certainly could have used the cash. TEAM CINDY!

[IMissFlo93]

Too bad her Diana-era hits had to be replaced by another backing vocal!

[sup_fan]

i agree - she and Mary had a perfect blend together. they really provide a sort of "vocal pillow" for the unique voices of Diana, Jean and Scherrie to sit on. although she didn't get much time at lead mic, her contributions to songs like Bridge Over Troubled Water, Wisdom of Time and her adlibs on Auto Sun are sexy, breathy, warm and lovely

[Ollie9]

Not so sure about saving the group... They still had a dymamic and charismatic lead singer to lead them on during that period in time.
Cindy did a great job in replacing Flo, but she she could have been one of any number of singers that could have done just the same. As it was she did a great job and if all reports are true is a really lovely lady.
During the 70', and especially on the Floy Joy album it would have made sense for Cindy to have been given at least one solo. I think she was more then capable.

[marv2]

I don't think she saved the group after Florence Ballard was fired. I do, however, believe Cindy Birdsong allowed the group to continue on without a lot of headache when she returned in 1973 to join Mary and Scherrie.

[sup_fan]

^very valid point

and the MJC lineup was truly Supreme! really a great blend of voices and style. with each being to display their personality in song and on stage

[Roberta75]

I don't think she saved the group after Florence Ballard was fired. I do, however, believe Cindy Birdsong allowed the group to continue on without a lot of headache when she returned in 1973 to join Mary and Scherrie.

Mary Wilsons wife beating husband treated Cindy real badly telling her she was heavy and then he forced her out.

[jobeterob]

Cindy added something nice to the group on the early 70’s; if they could only have continued on like they did from 1970 to the end of 1971. But perhaps they weren’t evolving and they were dieing no matter what happened.

I don’t think she saved the group though; if anyone did that, it might have been Jean in 1970.

And the magical blend of Florence with Diana was lost and gone

[luke]

It’s really quite amazing how successful and talented they were after losing such an identifiable lead singer. As Berry said with Mary being the heart and soul of the Supremes and Cindy’s sweet and warm voice and a certain something that just made them shine and Jean’s amazing voice they were truly Supreme.

[Roberta75]

It’s really quite amazing how successful and talented they were after losing such an identifiable lead singer. As Berry said with Mary being the heart and soul of the Supremes and Cindy’s sweet and warm voice and a certain something that just made them shine and Jean’s amazing voice they were truly Supreme.

Then stop saying that Motown didnt promote them or care about them.

[midnightman]

Jean Terrell and Motown itself also helped lol

[marv2]

Cindy added something nice to the group on the early 70’s; if they could only have continued on like they did from 1970 to the end of 1971. But perhaps they weren’t evolving and they were dieing no matter what happened.

I don’t think she saved the group though; if anyone did that, it might have been Jean in 1970.

And the magical blend of Florence with Diana was lost and gone

Jean Terrell didn't save the group. They just had a number one record when she debut with the Supremes. Mary Wilson saved the Supremes. She kept them alive after Flo, Diane, Jean, Lynda etc, etc.

[marv2]

It’s really quite amazing how successful and talented they were after losing such an identifiable lead singer. As Berry said with Mary being the heart and soul of the Supremes and Cindy’s sweet and warm voice and a certain something that just made them shine and Jean’s amazing voice they were truly Supreme.

Mary Wilson was the heart and soul of the Supremes. It was through her determination that they lasted as long as they did. She has also played an invaluable role in keeping their legacy alive today.

[Bluebrock]

Jean Terrell didn't save the group. They just had a number one record when she debut with the Supremes. Mary Wilson saved the Supremes. She kept them alive after Flo, Diane, Jean, Lynda etc, etc.
It was Jean Terrell who saved the Supremes from oblivion. Without her wonderful contribution the Supremes would have been dead in the water within a year. Mary Wilson was not capable of taking over as lead vocalist. Berry knew it. The fans knew it and Mary herself knew it. Jean came along at the right time and kept the momentum going for 2 or 3 years. We Supremes fans owe her a debt of gratitude.

[daviddh]

It was Jean Terrell who saved the Supremes from oblivion. Without her wonderful contribution the Supremes would have been dead in the water within a year. Mary Wilson was not capable of taking over as lead vocalist. Berry knew it. The fans knew it and Mary herself knew it. Jean came along at the right time and kept the momentum going for 2 or 3 years. We Supremes fans owe her a debt of gratitude.
I agree. the group could have ended with Diana leaving. I think ,really with flo's departure, the last 2 years gave the group a chance to find a new lead so Diana could leave Cindy was a good replacement.

[PeaceNHarmony]

Then stop saying that Motown didnt promote them or care about them.In fact Motown promoted the post-Diana Supremes like crazy. Constant new recordings on the market, regular tv appearances, some major venue bookings and print stories all yielded a brief string of hits. That is, until Jean left and the public was left with a revolving retinue of 'Who-premes' who simply did not appeal.

[thanxal]

NO! I saved the Supremes!!!

[blackguy69]

It’s always interesting to see others opinions. Depending on who they like leads them to their conclusion. For me, I don’t think Cindy saved the Supremes or any of the replacements for that matter. I can see it if the girls were at a low point and Cindy ‘s arrival gave them a big spark to achieve more than what they achieved before. Same with the others. With each new girl, they were able to maintain and keep the group going. As far as promotion, it’s stupid to say they weren’t getting it but their promotion took a big drop once Diana left. They can be on tv countless times but if their songs aren’t being played on the radio, then all the tv appearances don’t mean squat. Remember I’m gonna make you love me was a big hit without tv appearances but heavy radio rotation.

[marv2]

It’s always interesting to see others opinions. Depending on who they like leads them to their conclusion. For me, I don’t think Cindy saved the Supremes or any of the replacements for that matter. I can see it if the girls were at a low point and Cindy ‘s arrival gave them a big spark to achieve more than what they achieved before. Same with the others. With each new girl, they were able to maintain and keep the group going. As far as promotion, it’s stupid to say they weren’t getting it but their promotion took a big drop once Diana left. They can be on tv countless times but if their songs aren’t being played on the radio, then all the tv appearances don’t mean squat. Remember I’m gonna make you love me was a big hit without tv appearances but heavy radio rotation.

Very good points Blackguy69! Case in point, The Supremes sang "Bad Weather" a number of times on television, but it was not played on radio and you could not find the record in stores anywhere!

[TheMotownManiac]

Bad weather was not played on the radio because most people hated it when they first heard it… Including me. No amount of promotion is going to get a radio station to put on a record that they think the public is going to hate. Bad weather was not in very many record stores because there was no demand for Supremes singles that much anymore and it took two months to finally chart for one week…… Why would record stores want to purchase product They are afraid they’re going to get stuck with. I’ll record stores had an agreement where they get returned a certain percentage of their 45s, but they still had to be very careful with what they brought in so they didn’t go over their quota and get stuck with merchandise they can’t move. That’s why bad weather was not in record stores.

[TheMotownManiac]

It’s always interesting to see others opinions. Depending on who they like leads them to their conclusion. For me, I don’t think Cindy saved the Supremes or any of the replacements for that matter. I can see it if the girls were at a low point and Cindy ‘s arrival gave them a big spark to achieve more than what they achieved before. Same with the others. With each new girl, they were able to maintain and keep the group going. As far as promotion, it’s stupid to say they weren’t getting it but their promotion took a big drop once Diana left. They can be on tv countless times but if their songs aren’t being played on the radio, then all the tv appearances don’t mean squat. Remember I’m gonna make you love me was a big hit without tv appearances but heavy radio rotation.

I’m gonna make you love me got heavy radio Rotation because at the time of its release both love child and cloud nine were huge hits, TCB was a smash and the record itself was sensational selling over 2 million copies and being actually certified platinum. 2 million people did not buy that record because of promotion. Radio stations played it because they knew people liked it, requested it, were buying it in droves in stores, and was sung by two groups That were already in the top 10 when it came out. Radio stations play what they think their listeners want to hear so that they won’t change channels to another station because there’s a song they hate. That’s why the playlists were so tight. It’s true, that promotion could get some records played, but radio only stayed on those records if they got a positive response. In this particular case, the song only made it to number two on billboard, based on radio play and record sales however it made it to number one in both cashbox and record world which were based only on sales…… So if anything, the record received the less airplay than sales earned response. Remember also, Aside from selling over 2 million copies of the 45, it came from an album that was a giant major seller which clearly syphoned sales from the 45.

[blackguy69]

The point I was trying to make is you can make numerous appearances on tv but if your song isn’t on a hourly rotation on the radio. It won’t be a hit.

[Roberta75]

The point I was trying to make is you can make numerous appearances on tv but if your song isn’t on a hourly rotation on the radio. It won’t be a hit.

And if it isnt a good song like bad Weather or Your My Driving Wheel then DJs atrnt going to play it. You cant make drek a hit.

[marv2]

The point I was trying to make is you can make numerous appearances on tv but if your song isn’t on a hourly rotation on the radio. It won’t be a hit.

I totally get your point and it is a FACT!

[TheMotownManiac]

The point I was trying to make is you can make numerous appearances on tv but if your song isn’t on a hourly rotation on the radio. It won’t be a hit.
I’m sorry, I wasn’t disagreeing with you at all - you’re absolutely correct nothing becomes a hit if it doesn’t get played…… It’s just that some people think any song Will be a hit if it “just gets promotion“ - just Being the operative word. If ever a record got strong promotion, I assume anyway, it would have been reach out and touch and we all know how well that did: top 10 in record world and cashbox sales charts, number 20 on billboard sales and airplay chart mixed. And I am certain that Gordy did everything possible to get that to number one, but you can’t hold a gun to someone’s head, Legally, to get record played more. It’s not a bad record, it’s not the greatest record in the world either.

[jobeterob]

Odd that Motown spent thousands of dollars buying ads for all their acts single in Cashbox, Billboard, and Record World and then people say they weren't promoted; the Supremes got more advertising than any Motown act except maybe Diana; all the flop singles at the end got ads - a lot more than Where Did Our Love Go to start; and certainly a lot more than the 9 singles at the beginning which went no where.

But the group was fighting; there were no hits; the bookings were slipping; and they had a fool for a manager.

[reese]

During this period, I knew what was happening with the Supremes through magazines like Jet, Black Stars, and especially Right On! more than radio.

After FLOY JOY, I never heard of any of their records on the radio besides BAD WEATHER and I'M GONNA LET MY HEART MY DO THE WALKING, which I loved. I do remember a lot of tv appearances during the WALKING era, like Dinah Shore and Merv Griffin.

Trade ads might have plentiful but I never even saw a Billboard magazine in my local bookstores until 1980, so they wouldn't have increased my awareness either.

[Jimi LaLumia]

A record back then never got hourly rotation until it already was a hit.. records started as 'pick hits' or as WABC in New York called them Hot Prospects, they'd get some plays during the broadcast day and sales and requests would be monitored; more action led to more plays and otherwise the record would disappear after a week or two; thats why it was called "Hit Radio" back then..two Ross led examples of that were "Somethings You Never Get Used To" and "Forever Came Today" so no exceptions were eever made, Ross led or otherwise..the public ultimately decides

[midnightman]

Honestly I may have been wrong. I think nothing could've saved the Supremes. The Florence firing signaled the end. It just took a decade to finally make sense.

[marv2]

During this period, I knew what was happening with the Supremes through magazines like Jet, Black Stars, and especially Right On! more than radio.

After FLOY JOY, I never heard of any of their records on the radio besides BAD WEATHER and I'M GONNA LET MY HEART MY DO THE WALKING, which I loved. I do remember a lot of tv appearances during the WALKING era, like Dinah Shore and Merv Griffin.

Trade ads might have plentiful but I never even saw a Billboard magazine in my local bookstores until 1980, so they wouldn't have increased my awareness either.

Hey Reese, I remember all of those magazines too! I was not in the industry, so I did not buy Billboard.

[marv2]

A record back then never got hourly rotation until it already was a hit.. records started as 'pick hits' or as WABC in New York called them Hot Prospects, they'd get some plays during the broadcast day and sales and requests would be monitored; more action led to more plays and otherwise the record would disappear after a week or two; thats why it was called "Hit Radio" back then..two Ross led examples of that were "Somethings You Never Get Used To" and "Forever Came Today" so no exceptions were eever made, Ross led or otherwise..the public ultimately decides

Jimi, remember when stations had "the Request Line"?

[detmotownguy]

In Detroit radio requests were part being young. It was so much fun waiting till your song was played. DJs were so accommodating in those days. WKNR 13 was great!

[Fullfillingnessfirstfinale]

IMHO personally Mary Wilson sved The Supremes. Cindy would have stayed better with Patti LaBelle and The Bluebelles, so maybe we had more Atlantic stuff, who knows. On the other side tried to turn Patti LaBelle and The Bluebelles into The "Atlantic Supremes" and gave them wrong material.
I think Cindy did not play a major role in the Supremes era

[sup_fan]

record promotion is a LOT more than simply buying ads in trade magazines like Billboard and Cashbox. it's working with sales teams for your major record store outlets, it's doing promotion work with station managers and djs. It's commercial spots on air, tv, outdoor billboards, etc

[jim aka jtigre99]

It is my thoughts that the Supremes would not have gone on once Florence was dismissed from the group. Florence was not going to come back. The group was like the Beatles with individual name recognition and personalities. Having the wrong replacement would have caused the group difficulties. Had the group disbanded after Florence was dismissed, it may not have been good for Diana Ross to start her solo career when a group member is dismissed and the group to stop. They had to have the right replacement and Cindy had an memorable name,looked slightly like Florence, was sweet and fit into the group and their increasing glamour image. Had they replaced her with Marlene Barrow or Barbara Randolph, I don't think that the group would have succeeded as well. Sure, Jean Terrell was an excellent replacement for Diana Ross and Mary Wilson indeed was the only one to keep it going, without her the group would have stopped. Scherrie Payne also stepped in and was a big help to Mary in keeping the group going. Cindy was there stepping in to help when Jean fell ill and she was pregnant, when Lynda left and Mary needed to regroup and when Mary needed her on her South American tour. What would have happened and Cindy didn't replace Florence? Without the right chemistry even with Diana Ross as lead singer, they would have faltered in some way. Cindy needs to be thought of as the member who truly helped during all of the times the Supremes needed her.

[RanRan79]

I think every woman who worked as a Supreme brought something of value to the table. As the subject relates to Cindy, she did an incredible job of stepping into some incredible shoes. Florence had a beautiful voice, was gorgeous, looked like a star, had great stage presence, funny, intelligent. She was memorable. So it's not like Cindy was stepping in for a no name Marvelette or Vandella [[no disrespect intended to any of those ladies). She had to be able to step into most of what Flo left behind. Of course Cindy did not have Flo's voice and I haven't seen anything that suggests she had Flo's sense of humor either, but everything else Cindy was pretty great at herself, including having the advantage of being a much better dancer that Florence could've ever been.

On top of that, Cindy also had to be able to bring some stability to the group. Flo's last months there was of an unstable lineup. Cindy also had to bring some humility to the group. Diana's ego was inflated and Flo frequently took opportunities to deflate it, which meant there was some conflict. Had Cindy had a personality similar to Flo's, it would have been the same crap all over again and if the group was to have another Flo, might as well bring the old Flo back to do what she did so well.

I still don't believe that there was ever serious consideration to having Diana exit the group in 1966. That would've be dumb. She was not ready. I do believe Gordy wondered "what if" but he knew the Supremes were the act, not Diana Ross. Not yet. There needed to be a plan and DRATS was it. But a stable, cohesive group was necessary. Flo could no longer do her part in that, so she was out. Cindy could. She was in. But did she save the act? In the words of Flo: I don't know bout all that.

The Supremes were huge money makers for Motown. Gordy and co was not about to let them die just because Flo was gone. They knew they had to find the right person and they figured right that there was a right person. If not Cindy, it would have been someone else. So I'm not sure the group needed saving. In fact I would venture that if anyone "saved" the group, it was the Tempts being paired with them, and the Corporation coming up with "Love Child", because other than that the Supremes were has beens in the hit single department.

[Jimi LaLumia]

yes Marv ...and sometimes they actually reacted..big stations like WABC AM in NY were never going to play anything that wasn't already on their 'tight playlist' of 14 to 20 current titles..

[marv2]

yes Marv ...and sometimes they actually reacted..big stations like WABC AM in NY were never going to play anything that wasn't already on their 'tight playlist' of 14 to 20 current titles..

I remember calling the request line for Soul station WKLR [[Kooler Radio) in Toledo a lot as a young teenager. It could take some time before they would get to your requested record, but they played it and announce your name!

[RanRan79]

Honestly I may have been wrong. I think nothing could've saved the Supremes. The Florence firing signaled the end. It just took a decade to finally make sense.

Well Ross was going to leave. That was inevitable. She was a once in a lifetime type of star. It's hard to destroy that or redirect it somewhere else. Best case scenario for the group had Flo stayed was that she be allowed to get some treatment, somebody check Gordy's chauvinism, somebody check Ross' ego, and the group be set up so that when Ross exits, not only does she get the solo career, but so does Flo and Mary. Had Gordy not been afflicted with tunnel vision, the Supremes could've ended in 1970 without replacements. Maybe he then could have paired Jean with two other ladies and had success with another female group in the 70s not named Supremes.

[captainjames]

Interesting topic -
I think after Flo left each girl had to step up her game including Mary and Diana. There was a void because Flo was a big part of the group. The public wanted the same show patter but no one really delivered them the way Flo always did whether they were handed off to Mary or Cindy.

Believe it or not Berry wanted Diana out of the group. There was only about a year and half till Diana leaving after Flo. Diana was probably scared and uncomfortable about leaving util the girls gave her the cold shoulder.

If HDH had stayed with Motown the girls would have been okay. "Reflections", "Love Child" and "Someday We Will Be Together" saved the Supremes.

[midnightman]

Yeah BG tried to get Diana out as early as 1966. They even tried to go once at the Copa without Flo and the Copa owner gave BG the riot act. BG then sent for Flo.

[imakicola]

Cindy is great but frankly she isn’t the greatest lip syncer or dancer sometimes not. In early morning love she totally forgets to even lipsync for the first third of the song !

[franjoy56]

In that case she should have had t complete lead on wisdom of time

[franjoy56]

I heard bad weather on wnew radio late night a station that played easy listening songs like frank sinatra and elton john. I fiund t record in a variety store. In coney island. Weeks before they apeared on soul traon strange. No wonder jean bolted.

[TheMotownManiac]

Record companies have no control over who sold their product. Anyone could go to a distributor and buy whatever they thought they could sell. Stores had return agreements with dealers who, in turn, had return agreements with the label. That’s where most cut outs came from. Motown would print as many records as they thought they could sell and try not to get stuck with too many, however they always bought more 45s than they needed because their popularity came and went so quickly the product had to be out there…… It’s rare that a distributor was out of a single. When the records stop selling, the record store would return what they didn’t sell to their distributor they would return those things to Motown. Motown would keep track of all the returns because they were subtracted from royalty statements. Then, they sold them in bulk to cut out distributors where they got the lion share of their cost of pressing the record back but the artists got nothing. Also, there was no accountability to the artist for how many cutouts were returned so that’s just another way A label could, if they wanted to… Heaven forbid, cheat there artists. If it was being sold in a variety store in Coney Island, it’s because the owner thought they could sell it and so they brought it in…… Unless they were stolen or bootleg because there was a market for those items as well.

[gman]

I shopped the .39 cent/3 for $1 bins at Woolworths all the time for 45's...it wasn't uncommon to find last years #1/ top 10 records in there...they were all fully wrapped in loose plastic, and all had that little hole drilled thru the label...and all the labels/artists were there....Motown, Apple, Columbia...then there were these packs of 10 for $1.39..they were in cardboard with only the labels of the 2 end records visible. That's where you got the over pressed follow up 45's from one hit wonders and fairly recent releases by pop artists that weren't getting big hits in the Beatle era.

[TheMotownManiac]

Omg I forgot those 10 packs - they only had them occasionally, but the 39 centers were around always.

[gman]

Omg I forgot those 10 packs - they only had them occasionally, but the 39 centers were around always.

yes! true..those 10 packs weren't always there...the .39 ones were always a mess...ours were in these 2 very big oversized wire basket displays, about 200 records tossed into the center of each one and the best way to go thru them was to sit on the floor and make piles