Workin' Overtime..... 30 Years Old

[Ollie9]

Hard to believe it was 30 years ago. I even feel old typing it!!.
30 years on and there are still so many songs i still enjoy from this album.
I don't really think Nile was the best choice of producer and many of the songs are cut in to high a key. Having said that Diana sings with passion and it was nice that she threw something new at us.
I love the albums artwork which made a nice change from the usual glamour shots.
I know i am in the minority, but for me WO was a solid.consistant album with some very catchy numbers. Had it produced a few chart hits and been a tad more pop in production i think it would be viewed far more kindly today by Ross fans at large.

[JohnnyB]

Hard to believe it was 30 years ago. I even feel old typing it!!.
30 years on and there are still so many songs i still enjoy from this album.
I don't really think Nile was the best choice of producer and many of the songs are cut in to high a key. Having said that Diana sings with passion and it was nice that she threw something new at us.
I love the albums artwork which made a nice change from the usual glamour shots.
I know i am in the minority, but for me WO was a solid.consistant album with some very catchy numbers. Had it produced a few chart hits and been a tad more pop in production i think it would be viewed far more kindly today by Ross fans at large.

Thirty years, where does the time go? I remember buying this on release date, getting it home, listening... and being so very disappointed. I appreciate it more now—I love What Can One Person Do in spite of the key—but it’s still one of my least favorite Ross LP’s...

[vgalindo]

I have always enjoyed this album. Loved it when it first came out.

[PeaceNHarmony]

I have always enjoyed this album. Loved it when it first came out.I as well. A fun, uptempo lp.

[Albator]

This reminds me of how I was after listening all her middle to late eighties albums starting with Eaten Alive. Great expectation and major disappointment. "Workin overtime" was the worst of all. I'v tried hard to convince myself I loved it, but in the end it doesn't work.
Lyrics are consistant, interesting, but the production is a mess.

I like a few songs and the cover. During her tour, she was spectacular, total beauty, darker than in 84/85.

[TomatoTom123]

I have this album but can't remember any of the songs on it or what they sound like. What would you say are its best tracks? :)

[JohnnyB]

I have this album but can't remember any of the songs on it or what they sound like. What would you say are its best tracks? :)

This House, Bottom Line and Goin’ Through The Motions are the best in my opinion. I also like the title track. The key hurts What Can One Person Do.

Just my opinion...

[reese]

I thought SAY WE CAN, THIS HOUSE, PARADISE, and the title track were good.

[sup_fan]

The key hurt most of the songs. Too often she’s severely straining. To me, this album always seemed like the one the just got too close to there deadline for release and they had to go with what they had. And unlike Ross 83 which was able to still sort of hold together, this one was a dud. But there are some moments. bottom line is quite good. Maybe almost excellent. That late 80s sound has never been my fav anyway but this song does pretty well

As poor as I think WO is as an album, IMO it’s slightly ahead of Eaten Alive. The songs are stronger on EA but i absolutely hate the combination of the Gibbs nasal backgrounds and Diana’s nasal [[and often strained) vocals.

[Jaap]

Workin' Overtime was a major disappointment, although there are some good songs on it. The whole project just screams "I'm trying to stay relevant" and that works counter-productive [[they were clearly going after a second "diana" album, even using the same logo). Also musically, the album misses warmth, even for the late eighties. Some of the remixes of Workin' Overtime and Paradise are much better than the album versions, with much more "real" base sounds. I love the Workin' Overtime "house mix" [[which is quite a ironic label, as the mix is definitely not "house") that is much more funky than the other versions--I still play the vinyl once in a while.

[daviddh]

i liked Keep On Dancin and Paradise....wonder if her 90s albums will ever get the expanded edition

[Ollie9]

i liked Keep On Dancin and Paradise....wonder if her 90s albums will ever get the expanded edition

It would be great if WO were to receive the expanded treatment if only for all the wonderful remixes. The 12 inch club mix of "Paradise" is ** BRILLIANT**.
I have always felt Say We Can" [[a positive message song) should have been the lead single followed by "Bottom Line". My personal favourite is "This House" although i would never have released it as a single.

[TheMotownManiac]

In order: Bottom Line, Paradise, Keep On Dancing. The rest is either too noisy or way too high - I’m surprised neighborhood dogs don’t go crazy.

[Levi Stubbs Tears]

I'm a huge fan of Nile Rodgers but the only good thing about this album was the cover.

[Bluebrock]

I'm a huge fan of Nile Rodgers but the only good thing about this album was the cover.

I thought the cover was almost as bad as the music on the album. I cannot convey into words how much i hate this ghastly album. It was a career low point until the pitiful "i love you" album came along.

[markdtiller]

I have to say I liked it too and thought the criticism was a little unfair at the time. It had a cohesive sound, but perhaps very much of its time. I was young enough to be wearing ripped jeans at the time myself! My favourites were "Bottom Line" and "Goin' Through The Motions". I am encouraged now to check out the remixes and would like to see it get an expanded release too.

[Levi Stubbs Tears]

I thought the cover was almost as bad as the music on the album. I cannot convey into words how much i hate this ghastly album. It was a career low point until the pitiful "i love you" album came along.

Sorry blue - shoulda said 'the cover was the best thing'. So many wasted opportunities for Diana in the 80s.

[Ollie9]

I have to say I liked it too and thought the criticism was a little unfair at the time. It had a cohesive sound, but perhaps very much of its time. I was young enough to be wearing ripped jeans at the time too. My favourites were "Bottom Line" and "Goin' Through The Motions". I am encouraged now to check out the remixes and would like to see it get an expanded release too.

I was doing my ripped jeans thing at the time as well Mark and quite a while beyond if i'm being honest lol...
The album received quite a few positive reviews here in the UK though i can see why fans who prefer Diana in full glamour mode may have been put off. Not a "One More Chance" in sight.
In hindsight the album might have benefited had the production been a little more pop and a little less hip-hop, but that does not stop me enjoying it.
I have always thought Nile an odd choice as producer considering what the concept of the album was. Jam and Lewis would have been better suited although Janet might not have agreed.

[TomatoTom123]

Thanks for the suggestions guys! I shall check out those tracks now. :)

[JohnnyB]

Thanks for the suggestions guys! I shall check out those tracks now. :)

Tom, since you are listening with fresh ears, please let us know which tracks you feel are best after 30 years...

[TomatoTom123]

I listened to all the tracks on the album and can't really remember any highlights!! I guess that's what happened last time :rolleyes:!! I think "Keep On [[Dancin')" was my the one I liked best.

[Bluebrock]

I listened to all the tracks on the album and can't really remember any highlights!! I guess that's what happened last time :rolleyes:!! I think "Keep On [[Dancin')" was my the one I liked best.
There are no "highlights" as such Tom. It is an embarrassment for everyone involved directly or indirectly.

[Albator]

There are no "highlights" as such Tom. It is an embarrassment for everyone involved directly or indirectly.
I have never blamed Diana for this disaster. I think she sings very well, convincingly. The opposite of Eaten Alive in fact.

[JohnnyB]

I have never blamed Diana for this disaster. I think she sings very well, convincingly. The opposite of Eaten Alive in fact.

Eaten Alive is the other project that left me disappointed. Yet, many fans cite EA as a favorite, and their favorite of the RCA years. Just like WO, there are a few songs from EA that I really love, the rest being too much of a sound/style that should have been offered in small doses...

[Albator]

Eaten Alive is the other project that left me disappointed. Yet, many fans cite EA as a favorite, and their favorite of the RCA years. Just like WO, there are a few songs from EA that I really love, the rest being too much of a sound/style that should have been offered in small doses...
I shouldn’t have been disapointed by EA since I thought Barry Gibb style was not suited to Diana. But I was disapointed by her voice. She sings so high, it’s unpleasant.

[sup_fan]

EA is the most disappointing Diana album, IMO. the title track is a mess, most of the songs are arranged too high for her, the mix was terrible and she's so buried and the combination of Ross/Gibbs is one of the worst things i think ever to be put on wax. She vocal tone and his/their are so incompatible as they're both quite nasal. just an absolute horrible blend.

[Circa 1824]

30 years ago I was tremendously disappointed, again, with another lousy Ross album. You got to admit she was batting 1000 during the 80's.

[Albator]

We probably have to believe Barry Gibb when he describes Diana's approach during the RCA years. Minimal involvement as a performer, studio sessions interspersed with various activities [[flying to record the American Music Awards in L.A, buying hats in New York, going to and from Europe, and others).
Since Gary Katz said the same and that's what she also liked to show in a 1981 TV report, it's understandable that the albums are disjointed.

[lucky2012]

What I like about this forum [[among many things) is the discussing of albums that I have forgotten about or rejected. EA and WO are the two Ross albums I never listen to. Yet, in another thread, someone posted the EA video and I found myself liking and enjoying it. Funny how I never liked it when it came out. I still hesitate to subject myself to the whole album, but these threads are opening up my mind again. I recall at least not hating This House, Bottom Line, Paradise on WO.

[Ollie9]

A least the WO album had a litlle fire in it's belly, unlike the bland, vanilla production on much of The Force Behind The Power Album.
For me Workin' Overtime is a solid, consistent effort, far superior then any of her rca albums if only for the fact Diana is not vocally resting on her laurels. It has always been in my top 5 Diana albums. If some of the songs had been cut in a lower key, namely "What Can One Person Do" i would rate it even higher.

[Ollie9]

We probably have to believe Barry Gibb when he describes Diana's approach during the RCA years. Minimal involvement as a performer, studio sessions interspersed with various activities [[flying to record the American Music Awards in L.A, buying hats in New York, going to and from Europe, and others).
Since Gary Katz said the same and that's what she also liked to show in a 1981 TV report, it's understandable that the albums are disjointed.

Sadly this seems to be true. For much of the 80's Diana appeared more interested in making money then putting out good music. Mercifully this musically arid period came to an end when the sparkling WO set hit the shops and fans like me could once again play a D.R album from start to finish.

[sup_fan]

We probably have to believe Barry Gibb when he describes Diana's approach during the RCA years. Minimal involvement as a performer, studio sessions interspersed with various activities [[flying to record the American Music Awards in L.A, buying hats in New York, going to and from Europe, and others).
Since Gary Katz said the same and that's what she also liked to show in a 1981 TV report, it's understandable that the albums are disjointed.

wow - i hadn't really heard that she was so uninvolved in her recordings during the RCA years

[vgalindo]

Well I guess to each his own. Her EA album is one of my favorite Diana Ross albums. I absolutely love it. I really don't care for the title song but the rest of the album is a masterpiece IMHO.

[Guy]

I remember all of the hype. The Vanity Fair cover. The Queen returns to Motown hoopla. And then this dreadful album. 30 years later, I am still bitter.

I actually like the lyric of "Workin Overtime" but the music and production is terrible. The only listenable song is "This House" and it's not one you'd want to listen to repeatedly.

[Bluebrock]

Well I guess to each his own. Her EA album is one of my favorite Diana Ross albums. I absolutely love it. I really don't care for the title song but the rest of the album is a masterpiece IMHO.
I wouldn't call it a masterpiece, but there were some good songs on there. The title track needed a remix, as the released mix was a bit of a mess. It could have been a classic had Diana given it the attention it demanded. She was making tons of money at the expense of making good albums during the 80's. So many lost opportunities.....

[Bluebrock]

I remember all of the hype. The Vanity Fair cover. The Queen returns to Motown hoopla. And then this dreadful album. 30 years later, I am still bitter.

I actually like the lyric of "Workin Overtime" but the music and production is terrible. The only listenable song is "This House" and it's not one you'd want to listen to repeatedly.
Totally agree. No-one involved in it was happy with the finished product, especially Diana herself.

[Bluebrock]

wow - i hadn't really heard that she was so uninvolved in her recordings during the RCA years
Very much so. She showed very little interest or respect for anything or anyone involved with her professionally during this period.

[vgalindo]

I wouldn't call it a masterpiece, but there were some good songs on there. The title track needed a remix, as the released mix was a bit of a mess. It could have been a classic had Diana given it the attention it demanded. She was making tons of money at the expense of making good albums during the 80's. So many lost opportunities.....

Well maybe not a masterpiece. But none the less I love the album. It is one of my all time favorites of her RCA and Motown output.

[daviddh]

EA did have some gems and good vocals by Diana. the title cut is the my least fav but i love the video. it had potential. i always been fond of CRIMES OF PASSION. could been a hit. Teacher has grown on me. i think a few tracks had to much Bee Gees on them and i would have used other singers but i am also a fan of the Bee Gees.but i agree the title cut needed a different mix.i could hardly understand the lyrics

[daviddh]

maybe its me, but perhaps that is what Diana was used to. the HDH guys producing everthing and she would just come in and record her vocals and leave. i suppose she thought the producers would just handle it. i dont get it especially since , i thought , she wanted control of her music in the 80s. one minute she was in control and then it seems she wasnt. when Streisand releases an album she always seems to have an idea of what kind of album she is working on start to finish.
I think I LOVE YOU and LAST TIME I SAW HIM are the worst 2 lps of her career ,followed by WHY DO FOOLS FALL.
WO has some moments, but I would have remixed this album like they did DIANA. although I do like the original CHIC mixs.
if they continue with eric kupper mixs, maybe he could work magic on a few of these duds

[Albator]

Sadly this seems to be true. For much of the 80's Diana appeared more interested in making money then putting out good music. Mercifully this musically arid period came to an end when the sparkling WO set hit the shops and fans like me could once again play a D.R album from start to finish.Was it just money that was the engine? Wasn't it rather that she ended up like a princess who can afford anything she wants? At that time, money was flowing in the record companies, and Diana was offered many possibilities, from fashion, to make-up to concerts and albums. We were in the middle of the Super Woman and she was one of them.
I really think she did something wrong in terms of self-management.
Strangely, her glamorous but also disastrous performance for the Tonight Show in 81, sums up the situation a little bit.
I remember the first concert I saw in Paris back in 1985. I was dazzled but while Eaten Alive LP was out a very few weeks before the concert, she only promoted Swept away. For the tour around Red Hot, it was the same thing.

[Ollie9]

Diana's rca years have bee reviewed and discussed many a time by fans on this forum Albator.
Diana proved herself an astute business woman during this period. Sadly, this was counterbalanced by her obvious lack of creative vision as to what the public wanted from her who she was as a recording artist.
WDFFIL was a hit ONLY because she was at the peak of her popularity, not because it was a good album. It fact it was for the most part dreadful. Her live performance of "Mirror Mirror" on the Tonight Show was for someone of Diana's stature nothing short of embarrassing.
Moving away from the gloom and doom, the years 83 through to 87 for me produced a mixed bag. I actually think EA a decent effort, with ross, SA and RHR&B having their creative moments.
The years 89, 95 and 99 produced three brilliant albums which for myself and i'm sure many a fan are thought of as classic Diana albums. FBTP imo is a solid if unexciting effort.

[sup_fan]

I agree that the 80s saw diana prove that while she’s a talented entertainer she’s not a talented entertainment manager. Lots of questionable decisions

But I’m of the opinion that WDFFIL is a fairly strong album. The rendition of Endless Love is ghastly but many of the other tracks are strong. Sometimes her vocals are a bit generic, as if she’s sort of coasting when she should have been pushing herself. But overall I think it’s a rather strong set. Not her best but far from her weakest. Frankly although the tracks are hot i find many of her vocals on diana 80 to be too mechanical and generic too. Yet everyone lists that lp as one of her finest.

her subsequent RCA albums also tend to be mixed bags. I find her use of echo annoying and often her vocals are too buried in the mix. Sort of ironic given how fans have complained over the years about the sup background vocals being too buried back in the 60s lol

[Ollie9]

I'm not convinced sup lol.... WDFFIL is for me Diana's worst album ever....as in of all time.
I much prefer "I Love You and thats saying something. The production on Fools is so pedestrian and flat sounding that it kills the entire album. Most of the songs to my ears sound like dime a dozen pop fluff. How the queen of motown went from recording such classics as "The Boss" and Upside Down" to crap like "Two Can Make It" and half baked 50's retreads is beyond me. I do however very much agree that Her solo version of Endless Love is beyond awful. Her vocal is strained, wispy and at times close to being off key. With Richie at the helm on the duet version her vocal is crisp, powerful and engaging.

[daviddh]

I'm not convinced sup lol.... WDFFIL is for me Diana's worst album ever....as in of all time.
I much prefer "I Love You and thats saying something. The production on Fools is so pedestrian and flat sounding that it kills the entire album. Most of the songs to my ears sound like dime a dozen pop fluff. How the queen of motown went from recording such classics as "The Boss" and Upside Down" to crap like "Two Can Make It" and half baked 50's retreads is beyond me. I do however very much agree that Her solo version of Endless Love is beyond awful. Her vocal is strained, wispy and at times close to being off key. With Richie at the helm on the duet version her vocal is crisp, powerful and engaging.
I have to say, I totally agree with your assessment of WDFFIL album.i wanted to like it, and after the success of Diana. I wanted to. I just cant for all the reasons you stated.
weak songs and lazy vocals.
I don't understand how she has repeatedly released a excellent hit album and followed it up with a dud. you would think she would have learned her lesson a few times over and would have been ready to fly in 1981, but she just dropped the ball.
I am not sure how she sees herself as a singer.?

[sup_fan]

Lolol love the different points of view

I don’t think WDFFIL is a stellar album. But I think the title track, mirror mirror, sweet surrender,it’s never too late are very good. Think I’m in love isn’t too bad. Not as strong as others but decent. Sweet nothings and work that body are silly but fun. I think they add some needed camp and light heartedness. 2 can make is a rather weak track and EL hideous

[Boogiedown]

I just listened to WORKIN OVERTIME for the first time in my life....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnDN6_CkXvc

I think better lyrics for this number would have been:

"get out from that kitchen and rattle those pots and pans!" lol!!

[TheMotownManiac]

I think Diana has little musical creative vision. In the 80s she was trying to balance raising children, getting Josephine Baker made, and constant global touring selling out arenas and more arenas and more arenas and making the kind of money she should have made at Motown and never did. I think she did get a little caught up in trying to do too much, and completely lost sight of her self artistically. Red hot rhythm and blues is proof of that: what on earth was that supposed to be? I think that’s her worst album ever…… Even worse than I love you, even though I’ve never played I love you all the way through, I wasn’t expecting anything ...... but an album titled red heart rhythm and blues I really look forward to you until I heard it… I don’t know what it was… But if it wasn’t for summertime, I might’ve taken it back to the used record store for a dollar. I’m sorry that we got so little listenable product after the chic album, But I’m happy that she’s alive and well and has all the money she could ever want and doesn’t have to do anything she doesn’t want and if that means having to separate through some god awful music along the way it’s OK. I do think if you take all the RCA your albums and mix them up and let the cream rises to the top you have enough for one decent album.

[Bluebrock]

I'm not convinced sup lol.... WDFFIL is for me Diana's worst album ever....as in of all time.
I much prefer "I Love You and thats saying something. The production on Fools is so pedestrian and flat sounding that it kills the entire album. Most of the songs to my ears sound like dime a dozen pop fluff. How the queen of motown went from recording such classics as "The Boss" and Upside Down" to crap like "Two Can Make It" and half baked 50's retreads is beyond me. I do however very much agree that Her solo version of Endless Love is beyond awful. Her vocal is strained, wispy and at times close to being off key. With Richie at the helm on the duet version her vocal is crisp, powerful and engaging.
At least we can agree on WDFFIL Ollie. It is indeed a poorly produced and poorly executed album. I just wish she had held out for Quincy to produce it. He would have replaced those awful cover versions with stronger songs, and tested Diana vocally. Only Mirror Mirror emerges with any credit on this uneven mess of an album. For me it is her 3rd worst effort after I love you and Workin Overtime.

[Bluebrock]

I think Diana has little musical creative vision. In the 80s she was trying to balance raising children, getting Josephine Baker made, and constant global touring selling out arenas and more arenas and more arenas and making the kind of money she should have made at Motown and never did. I think she did get a little caught up in trying to do too much, and completely lost sight of her self artistically. Red hot rhythm and blues is proof of that: what on earth was that supposed to be? I think that’s her worst album ever…… Even worse than I love you, even though I’ve never played I love you all the way through, I wasn’t expecting anything ...... but an album titled red heart rhythm and blues I really look forward to you until I heard it… I don’t know what it was… But if it wasn’t for summertime, I might’ve taken it back to the used record store for a dollar. I’m sorry that we got so little listenable product after the chic album, But I’m happy that she’s alive and well and has all the money she could ever want and doesn’t have to do anything she doesn’t want and if that means having to separate through some god awful music along the way it’s OK. I do think if you take all the RCA your albums and mix them up and let the cream rises to the top you have enough for one decent album.
Red Hot had its moments. Cross my heart, It's hard for me to say and Summertime are lovely songs, but there are some stiffs on there.

[Bluebrock]

I just listened to WORKIN OVERTIME for the first time in my life....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnDN6_CkXvc

I think better lyrics for this number would have been:

"get out from that kitchen and rattle those pots and pans!" lol!!
Ha ha ha! I would have to agree with you Boogiedown.

[Bluebrock]

I have to say, I totally agree with your assessment of WDFFIL album.i wanted to like it, and after the success of Diana. I wanted to. I just cant for all the reasons you stated.
weak songs and lazy vocals.
I don't understand how she has repeatedly released a excellent hit album and followed it up with a dud. you would think she would have learned her lesson a few times over and would have been ready to fly in 1981, but she just dropped the ball.
I am not sure how she sees herself as a singer.?
She is not a great fan of her own voice, and rarely listens to her own music. She still loves to perform live, but never showed sufficient interest in her singing career to try and take it to the next level. Just imagine what she could have achieved had she been as keen as Berry Gordy at enhancing her career.

[Ollie9]

Red Hot had its moments. Cross my heart, It's hard for me to say and Summertime are lovely songs, but there are some stiffs on there.

I agree Bluebrock, there are some lovely songs and performances on RHRAB. I have always found "Dirty Looks" as dull as ditchwater and believe it helped kill interest in the album.
The production on the album has a little of that icy 80's sound but Diana's voice is in glorious form throughout. I think the album should have been called Cross My Heart with that song being the lead single.
Best songs, "Summertime" "Cross My Heart.
Worst songs "Tell Me Again" "Dirty Looks".

[sup_fan]

the point of RHR&B was to accompany her tv special where she did do a somewhat valiant effort to explore the history and roots of r&b music. given the huge success of Dirty Dancing and how it re-introduced a lot of classic r&b music to the newer generation, i'm surprised that this didn't do better. i've watched the special and frankly it's nothing amazing. but it could have been - you have Etta James, Little Richard and others.

the album was a hot mess. had it at least had the same approach as the special, then at least you would have had a cohesive project. but it's such a patchwork that it really just doesn't hold up as it's just too much of a mix of new and old content

Dirty looks - not hideous but weak. somewhat contemporary but given what else was going on in pop music at time, not strong enough. Listen to what Whitney, Madonna and others were doing for great examples of pop. Plus the title of the lp was RHR&B
Stranger in Paradise - interesting but even less fitting for the title of the lp
Summertime - this is really quite excellent
Shine - meh
Tell Me Again - a pale comparison to Diana's own mega ballads from the 70s and early 80s and also to whitney's recent blockbusters. potential but so doesn't deliver
Selfish one - finally a decent cover
cross my heart - not a bad song but too pop for the original concept of the album
There goes my baby - i liked this a lot when younger. and certainly hits with the lp concept. but in recent years i've come to realize it's a bit thin. she could have done a bit more
It's hard for me to say - one of the strongest tracks
Shockwaves - a decent song, at least it's done somewhat reminiscently of classic motown

unfortunately some stronger songs were left off the US version - Mr Lee, Tell mama and Sweet soul music.

[Albator]

She is not a great fan of her own voice, and rarely listens to her own music. She still loves to perform live, but never showed sufficient interest in her singing career to try and take it to the next level. Just imagine what she could have achieved had she been as keen as Berry Gordy at enhancing her career.Neither do I, but it's not her voice that counts, but what she does with it. In this sense, RCA albums are very disappointing. Everything has its exceptions, for me, Ross is her masterpiece. I'm crazy about her voice on this album, like for TMH or EDAND.

If her voice is not exceptional, her tone is, and in her interpretations there is something both infinitely sad and full of compassion. Psychic sorrow?


There are parts of her songs that I can listen to endlessly and the feeling doesn't change.

[Circa 1824]

I just tried to watch the Working Overtime video for the first time in 30 years. I had the same reaction as 30 years ago. It was impossible to watch it. Ghastly song. Zero melody. I started to panic reaching for the off button. Honestly. Ross clearly has no independent musical sense of what the public likes and wants from her. She thought that looking pretty and posing like a model was what her fans wanted. LOL

[Albator]

She thought that looking pretty and posing like a model was what her fans wanted. LOLShe may not be all wrong thinking that. It's just her fans wanted that, and more...

[sup_fan]

I think Diana did a wonderful job of reinventing herself throughout the 70s.

1. There was the dynamic diva launching her career and we got Mountain, Reach out and touch. she was still glam but her music and approach seemed a bit more accessible than her DRATS days. maybe we COULD reach out and touch or if we needed her, call her.

2. lady evolution

3. Touch me in the AM - this is sort of a continuation of #2 but she had matured as an artist, as a woman. the TMITM album is stunning.

4. Disco queen - after a few hiccups of releases and another somewhat decent movie, Diana re-emerges again as a hot and sexy disco queen with Hangover. she sort of fizzles for a couple years and comes back AGAIN as a disco queen with Boss

5. urban hip - diana 80 is sleek and hip. the look on the lp is striped of glitter. its real and from the streets almost

6. woman of the 80s - with her first album or so with RCA, she's a true woman of the 80s. glamorous, successful. massive shoulder pads lol. big hair, heavy makeup

and that's where, IMO, things stopped. She hasn't ever reinvented herself since the early 80s. sure the mane of hair changes to some degree. sometimes it's more a fro. sometimes has highlights or something. but I'd venture to say that Diana's reinventions throughout the 70s and early 80s rivals even some of the major changes other artists like Madonna have done. it's just that she stopped. And so after a while, people lose interest. regardless of quality of music.

[Albator]

I think Diana did a wonderful job of reinventing herself throughout the 70s.

1. There was the dynamic diva launching her career and we got Mountain, Reach out and touch. she was still glam but her music and approach seemed a bit more accessible than her DRATS days. maybe we COULD reach out and touch or if we needed her, call her.

2. lady evolution

3. Touch me in the AM - this is sort of a continuation of #2 but she had matured as an artist, as a woman. the TMITM album is stunning.

4. Disco queen - after a few hiccups of releases and another somewhat decent movie, Diana re-emerges again as a hot and sexy disco queen with Hangover. she sort of fizzles for a couple years and comes back AGAIN as a disco queen with Boss

5. urban hip - diana 80 is sleek and hip. the look on the lp is striped of glitter. its real and from the streets almost

6. woman of the 80s - with her first album or so with RCA, she's a true woman of the 80s. glamorous, successful. massive shoulder pads lol. big hair, heavy makeup

and that's where, IMO, things stopped. She hasn't ever reinvented herself since the early 80s. sure the mane of hair changes to some degree. sometimes it's more a fro. sometimes has highlights or something. but I'd venture to say that Diana's reinventions throughout the 70s and early 80s rivals even some of the major changes other artists like Madonna have done. it's just that she stopped. And so after a while, people lose interest. regardless of quality of music.
I feel the same. She tried, timidly with "Take Me Higher", but it didn't last. Theré is this choreographer she talked back in 89, for her WO tour. He came with new ideas, she rejected thème and him.
It is true that since 1985, she has been living in the same style and, even if it seems ridiculous to say so, she has been presenting us with the same stage dresses since that date.
Time proved her right, but during the 90s and even 2000, it was old-fashioned.

[Ollie9]

I have never really been a huge fan of the big frock, long hair image. As you say, she did change it up a bit in 95 for the TMH years which for me was a welcome change. After 2004 she pretty much settled into the image we see today. One of my favourite Diana looks was at the MTV Music Awards in 99. Full on glam, but still chic and.modern.

[Albator]

In 83, I brought Silk because of the video of Muscles. I was extremely disappointed by the MOR LP. Than I forget until I read about Central Park in a local newspaper [[south of France). They explained the shows and disturbances of Day 2. The title was "Diana Ross excite les New yorkais".
They had B/W pictures of her intro costume [[the purple one) and the costume from "Muscles".
Then back in Paris I rush at the US library to buy Life and much latter The New Yorker with it's fantastic cover and inside paper "Indecent expenses". In between I brought the Ross LP, and I was relieved to find she sang songs with a voice matching her stage presence.
So my all time favorite look is the 83/85 period.
Than, the WO tour.
The 92/94 period was a little bit "to much".
The TMH look could have worked for me but soon it turned into something wild and agressive.
The Return To Love time, I hated. She wasn't well and it reflected in her look.
The 2004/05 comeback , I adored. She was so slim, beautiful to watch.


These days, she looks pretty amazing considering her age.

[Ollie9]

It's kind of sad that with this being the 30th anniversary of WO that Diana did not feel the need to record a follow up to the album. A Workin' Overtime companion as it were, much in the vein as to what Bab's did with Guilty. I think she could have had a lot of fun with such a project, perhaps with Nile once again at the helm.

[Bluebrock]

It's kind of sad that with this being the 30th anniversary of WO that Diana did not feel the need to record a follow up to the album. A Workin' Overtime companion as it were, much in the vein as to what Bab's did with Guilty. I think she could have had a lot of fun with such a project, perhaps with Nile once again at the helm.
We had already suffered enough with the original album Ollie. There was no need to inflict a companion album which could have turned out to be every bit as bad. Diana hated the album and basically wanted to forget that she ever inflicted it upon an unsuspecting public. Not sure what Nile thought of the album, but i think i shall try to do some investigating. His opinion would be interesting to say the least....

[Ollie9]

We had already suffered enough with the original album Ollie. There was no need to inflict a companion album which could have turned out to be every bit as bad. Diana hated the album and basically wanted to forget that she ever inflicted it upon an unsuspecting public. Not sure what Nile thought of the album, but i think i shall try to do some investigating. His opinion would be interesting to say the least....

SUFFERED......SUFFERED.......How is that possible?. I'm playing the cd as i type and it's setting me up nicely for the day.
It would very interesting to hear Niles views on the album, but how is that possible?.
If not a companion album to WO, a new dance album i'm sure would go down a storm. As that is very unlikely to happen, perhaps a new remix album might be a good idea. With all the club hits she is having at the moment it would make sense.

[Bluebrock]

SUFFERED......SUFFERED.......How is that possible?. I'm playing the cd as i type and it's setting me up nicely for the day.
It would very interesting to hear Niles views on the album, but how is that possible?.
If not a companion album to WO, a new dance album i'm sure would go down a storm. As that is very unlikely to happen, perhaps a new remix album might be a good idea. With all the club hits she is having at the moment it would make sense.
I have a friend who is a friend of a friend of Nile whom i may be able to get a message to. I don't know Nile, but he is playing a gig just 8 miles from my home soon, and i am hoping to set up a meeting with him so there may be a way of finding out his true opinion of the album. Glad you continue to enjoy it by the way. My opinion is just my opinion and i respect your right to disagree with me. Take care.

[Albator]

Even if Diana hate WO, even if Nile hate WO, they decided to do it as a comeback album at Motown. Since Diana was her own director, she is responsible for this.

[sup_fan]

^ agreed but the problem [[i'm guessing) is that they were working up against a deadline. she had contractual commitments to get product out and so after they came up with this concept and direction, they sort of got stuck with it. had they had unlimited time, perhaps they would have dropped this and gone in a different direction. or perhaps they would have had more time to revamp things.

it is a shame that this was the "return to motown debut" and it ended up like it did. There are some tracks that i like quite a bit. but overall it's not a fav of mine. And frankly this style and era of music is not one i personally cared for. then or now.

[Ollie9]

I wonder if the album of Supremes songs that Nile recorded with Diana in 2000 [[i think) will ever get to see the light of day. The musical climate is perfect for such a release methinks.

[Albator]

I forget about this one. Was it completed

[sup_fan]

wow - i didn't realize that she did a cover album of Sup material

[detmotownguy]

^ agreed but the problem [[i'm guessing) is that they were working up against a deadline. she had contractual commitments to get product out and so after they came up with this concept and direction, they sort of got stuck with it. had they had unlimited time, perhaps they would have dropped this and gone in a different direction. or perhaps they would have had more time to revamp things.

it is a shame that this was the "return to motown debut" and it ended up like it did. There are some tracks that i like quite a bit. but overall it's not a fav of mine. And frankly this style and era of music is not one i personally cared for. then or now.

The last time I saw Ross was at the Fox Theatre in Detroit for the WO tour. I can’t say that even she was too excited abt the results. She asked the audience Wht they thoughtwith a luke warm response. Somebody said you are gonna have to do better than this. Ouch. She wasn’t in a great mood. However she killed missing you. Actually sounded better than the recording.

[vgalindo]

I saw the Working Overtime tour at Caesars Tahoe. The songs sounded great live. The audience loved the new songs.

[detmotownguy]

I saw the Working Overtime tour at Caesars Tahoe. The songs sounded great live. The audience loved the new songs.

Not in Detroit. The lobby was full of people getting their drinks and so was the suite area where I was entertaining my clients. Detroit is a tough audience. People went behind the Fox to “greet” on her way out after the show and she was outta there ASAP. Plus she was not happy with the sound issues. The last few rows on the main floor complained it was hard to hear.

[vgalindo]

Not in Detroit. The lobby was full of people getting their drinks and so was the suite area where I was entertaining my clients. Detroit is a tough audience. People went behind the Fox to “greet” on her way out after the show and she was outta there ASAP. Plus she was not happy with the sound issues. The last few rows on the main floor complained it was hard to hear.
Well that's sad. I have been to so many Diana Ross concerts through the years that I lost count and I have never been to one of her concerts where the crowd didn't love her. However I have never been to a concert in Detroit.

[Roberta75]

Well that's sad. I have been to so many Diana Ross concerts through the years that I lost count and I have never been to one of her concerts where the crowd didn't love her. However I have never been to a concert in Detroit.


Well the crowd sure lapped her up at the Detroit Opera House in 2004 and Chene Park in Summer of 2016. Detroit loved her a lot at those shows.

[detmotownguy]

Well prob bc it was Detroit and she left Motown for RCA could have been an issue. $20 mil. Is a lot of money lol! The fans were expecting more from the new release. Maybe the Las Vegas type fan isn’t as hardcore as Detroit. Lastly, she showed no excitement doing the 60’s hits medley. Basically was looking at the stage floor thru the set. Anyway nuff said.

[Albator]

Of all the Diana's performances I'v been, The WO concert was the worst I saw. She was in a bad mood and was not pleasant.

[Ollie9]

the WO concert at London Wembly Arena was a huge success. I was there for two nights and on both occasions the audience responded really enthusiastically to the new songs. Diana was electric and appeared to be really enjoying herself. Had "Say We Can" or "Bottom" Line been the first single the album could have really taken off.
As it was the The album reached 23 on the charts, a respectable showing.....and thats the bottom line.

[Albator]

This wasn't a terrible concert because of the new songs. If I remember well, the CD was not on stores while she played her european dates.

[marv2]

Well prob bc it was Detroit and she left Motown for RCA could have been an issue. $20 mil. Is a lot of money lol! The fans were expecting more from the new release. Maybe the Las Vegas type fan isn’t as hardcore as Detroit. Lastly, she showed no excitement doing the 60’s hits medley. Basically was looking at the stage floor thru the set. Anyway nuff said.

I remember she brought her concert to Jones Beach on Long Island in 1995. One of my co workers went. They said that about 40 mins into the show, Diana Ross did a 3-5 min. Supremes medley. Right after that more than half of the audience got up and left! She was an oldies act and did not know it or acknowledge it. No one really wanted to hear her new material.

[Bluebrock]

I remember she brought her concert to Jones Beach on Long Island in 1995. One of my co workers went. They said that about 40 mins into the show, Diana Ross did a 3-5 min. Supremes medley. Right after that more than half of the audience got up and left! She was an oldies act and did not know it or acknowledge it. No one really wanted to hear her new material.
Half the audience left huh? Forgive me if i say you are talking out of your rear end yet again.

[Roberta75]

Half the audience left huh? Forgive me if i say you are talking out of your rear end yet again.

LOL. And its always a coworker or a cousin. hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe.

[Boogiedown]

WORKIN' OVERTIME was Ross's worst chart performing album of her entire solo career [[wiki).

I think the reasons were many [[mainly the music!!), but for starters what a pointless album title for what should have been one heralding an EPIC event , mainly Diana's grand return to her original hometown roots at Motown Records. Home again , at last!


I can easily think of many album titles that might celebrate this occasion , the last of which would be one called WORKIN' OVERTIME.:rolleyes::o

[vgalindo]

LOL. And its always a coworker or a cousin. hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe.
He never seems to amaze me. So funny. No one in their right mind would ever believe that!!

[marv2]

WORKIN' OVERTIME was Ross's worst chart performing album of her entire solo career [[wiki).

I think the reasons were many [[mainly the music!!), but for starters what a pointless album title for what should have been one heralding an EPIC event , mainly Diana's grand return to her original hometown roots at Motown Records. Home again , at last!


I can easily think of many album titles that might celebrate this occasion , the last of which would be one called WORKIN' OVERTIME.:rolleyes::o

With Berry Gordy gone, the people at Motown under Jheryl Busby did not want Diana Ross! They did not want to promote her product, they did not want her diva attitude...they just wanted her gone! It took 10 years for them to drop her from the label and she gave them plenty of good reason by turning out consecutive bad albums and extremely low sales overall.

[jobeterob]

Stooping here but...…….

EXTREMELY low sales: Diana - 200,000. Mary - 2.

[Boogiedown]

Marv2:
With Berry Gordy gone, the people at Motown under Jheryl Busby did not want Diana Ross! They did not want to promote her product, they did not want her diva attitude...they just wanted her gone! It took 10 years for them to drop her from the label and she gave them plenty of good reason by turning out consecutive bad albums and extremely low sales overall.














Judging from this lackluster "comeback" album, I believe you Marv. There is nothing about it that says "Welcome Back Diana ! It's been ten lonely years without you! We love you, Motown"
None of her old buddies wanted to welcome her back? Stevie, Smokey, Temptations, Lionel--- not a bit of involvement from any of them upon her return project.

I would think this would have been Motown's headline news of the decade,"DIANA IS BACK!!", with a no holds celebratory project being self evident. Pull out all the stops, special guest appearances by classic Motown friends, songwriting credits from long time favorites, congratulatory liner notes from Berry Gordy himself [[ who urged Diana to resign), pictures with plenty of hugging ...etc. etc. etc.

[Roberta75]

Judging from this lackluster "comeback" album, I believe you Marv.

4 words above [[in bold) you never ever ever ever read on this here forum. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

[marv2]

Judging from this lackluster "comeback" album, I believe you Marv. There is nothing about it that says "Welcome Back Diana ! It's been ten lonely years without you! We love you, Motown"
None of her old buddies wanted to welcome her back? Stevie, Smokey, Temptations, Lionel--- not a bit of involvement from any of them upon her return project.

I would think this would have been Motown's headline news of the decade,"DIANA IS BACK!!", with a no holds celebratory project being self evident. Pull out all the stops, special guest appearances by classic Motown friends, songwriting credits from long time favorites, congratulatory liner notes from Berry Gordy himself [[ who urged Diana to resign), pictures with plenty of hugging ...etc. etc. etc.

Any of what you described would have been complete "Fantasy Island". Let's not forget, Diana Ross was never that popular internally with the old Motown personnel. The new regime went from ignoring her to outright despising her! Some were young people just starting out with the old Motown and they remembered how poorly she treated them and just about eveyone else. The only thing I remember as far as the media went was a brief clip on like the entertainment minute on CNN of Ross returning to Motown as an artists and investor of some sort. Nothing else. A friend of mine that worked in Marketing and Promotion at Motown came to me one day and she asked me what should she do with Ross' "Force Behind the Power" album. This was in 1991 and I didn't have a clue for her, other than telling her the artwork sucked. LOL!

They tried to make a public appearance of unity of the old Motown gang in 1995 when the first Motown Cafe opened in NYC. There was plenty of press and plenty of stars but it all seemed very stilted. As far as Diana Ross value as a recording artist, no one cared or took her seriously upon her return to Motown. The product she issued bore that out.

[Ollie9]

This wasn't a terrible concert because of the new songs. If I remember well, the CD was not on stores while she played her european dates.

Agreed. The USA is not generally known for it's loyalty to older artists. In europe audiences embraced these the new songs, much as they did her following return to motown albums. One only has to look at footage from Diana's World Tour 89 for proof of this. Here in the UK the album was 23 on the charts and sold well throughout europe.

[PeaceNHarmony]

Stooping here but...…….

EXTREMELY low sales: Diana - 200,000. Mary - 2.
Not really stooping; merely relaying facts.

[Bluebrock]

With Berry Gordy gone, the people at Motown under Jheryl Busby did not want Diana Ross! They did not want to promote her product, they did not want her diva attitude...they just wanted her gone! It took 10 years for them to drop her from the label and she gave them plenty of good reason by turning out consecutive bad albums and extremely low sales overall.

Take a look at the European sales. Extremely low sales my ass. That can only apply to a certain other Supreme.You are getting your wires crossed sweetheart.

[Boogiedown]

Any of what you described would have been complete "Fantasy Island". Let's not forget, Diana Ross was never that popular internally with the old Motown personnel. The new regime went from ignoring her to outright despising her! Some were young people just starting out with the old Motown and they remembered how poorly she treated them and just about eveyone else. The only thing I remember as far as the media went was a brief clip on like the entertainment minute on CNN of Ross returning to Motown as an artists and investor of some sort. Nothing else..

Likely to the dismay of others, you continue to be right!, Marv! It's almost like Diana snuck in through the back door at Motown. I suppose to a degree it was like eating crow for her, two steps back, and a move that indeed would not play out to advance her career.

Speaking of Ebony Magazine , returning to Motown , should've been a great avenue for some magazine coverage, interviews, some covers like Ebony. Pump this event up !!! Work it overtime! For some reason the celebratory atmosphere wasn't there , there apparently wasn't the belief or confidence in her within the core of Motown as you state.

She certainly didn't need to resign with Motown in order to hook up with Nile Rodgers again. He would've been approachable anywhere along the way previously , he's not specifically in a relationship with Motown. In fact isn't Diana' 1980 album his only connection with them? Was he even considered "hot" by the end of the eighties?

Seems like an effort of aimless desperation, their reunification , Diana and Nile's. They weren't really friends at this point were they, their issues resolved? ,. Did Motown make him an offer he couldn't refuse?

[marv2]

Likely to the dismay of others, you continue to be right!, Marv! It's almost like Diana snuck in through the back door at Motown. I suppose to a degree it was like eating crow for her, two steps back, and a move that indeed would not play out to advance her career.

Speaking of Ebony Magazine , returning to Motown , should've been a great avenue for some magazine coverage, interviews, some covers like Ebony. Pump this event up !!! Work it overtime! For some reason the celebratory atmosphere wasn't there , there apparently wasn't the belief or confidence in her within the core of Motown as you state.

She certainly didn't need to resign with Motown in order to hook up with Nile Rodgers again. He would've been approachable anywhere along the way previously , he's not specifically in a relationship with Motown. In fact isn't Diana' 1980 album his only connection with them? Was he even considered "hot" by the end of the eighties?

Seems like an effort of aimless desperation, their reunification , Diana and Nile's. They weren't really friends at this point were they, their issues resolved? ,. Did Motown make him an offer he couldn't refuse?

They were not friends! Nile was heavily on Coke by that time. [[He said so himself). If you paid him, he would have produced Miss Piggy even! His working with Diane was all her idea and no one at Motown could care less.

Look at it this way. Berry Gordy and Motown made her a star. Promoted her at the expense of their other artists so that she could be in a position for a RCA to come knocking and offering her $20 million to sign with them. This caught Mr. Gordy and the company totally by surprise. No one actually believe she would leave the company, but when she did, they were beyond livid! Some secretly hated her guts. I know Mr. Gordy was very angry for a long time after that. He would only say that he was "disappointed" in the press.

So the question is, why would Diana Ross try to come back to a company that felt she had stabbed in the back just for money? I think she did it because no other company would sign her at that point and had Berry Gordy not pulled some strings, the new Motown would not have ever signed her. So she came back and no one even asked to work with her, let alone guide her career like Berry and Motown had done in the past. She came there with the same mindset she had at RCA and destroyed what was left of her own recording career. She did that!

[marv2]

Likely to the dismay of others, you continue to be right!, Marv! It's almost like Diana snuck in through the back door at Motown. I suppose to a degree it was like eating crow for her, two steps back, and a move that indeed would not play out to advance her career.

Speaking of Ebony Magazine , returning to Motown , should've been a great avenue for some magazine coverage, interviews, some covers like Ebony. Pump this event up !!! Work it overtime! For some reason the celebratory atmosphere wasn't there , there apparently wasn't the belief or confidence in her within the core of Motown as you state.

She certainly didn't need to resign with Motown in order to hook up with Nile Rodgers again. He would've been approachable anywhere along the way previously , he's not specifically in a relationship with Motown. In fact isn't Diana' 1980 album his only connection with them? Was he even considered "hot" by the end of the eighties?

Seems like an effort of aimless desperation, their reunification , Diana and Nile's. They weren't really friends at this point were they, their issues resolved? ,. Did Motown make him an offer he couldn't refuse?

Oh and regarding Ebony Magazine at that time? She had totally pissed off Mr. Johnson and his wife Eunice, who were still the principles at that time. She even made a bad impression on the staff photographers as well. Some have said that she did not "cooperate" when they did a 1981 cover story on her. The one where she pretended to not know whatever happened to Martha Reeves among others.

[khansperac]

Nile and Diana are friends. Just today he posted the following:


“Diana Ross changed my life. She allowed me to compose, orchestrate and play after #discosucks made me persona non grata to most. Friends for life.”

[Roberta75]

They were not friends! Nile was heavily on Coke by that time. [[He said so himself). If you paid him, he would have produced Miss Piggy even! His working with Diane was all her idea and no one at Motown could care less.

Look at it this way. Berry Gordy and Motown made her a star. Promoted her at the expense of their other artiss so that she could be in a position for a RCA to come knocking and offering her $20 million to sign with them. This caught Mr. Gordy and the company totally by surprise. No one actually believe she would leave the company, but when she did, they were beyond livid! Some secretly hated her guts. I know Mr. Gordy was very angry for a long time after that. He would only say that he was "disappointed" in the press.

So the question is, why would Diana Ross try to come back to a company that felt she had stabbed in the back just for money? I think she did it because no other company would sign her at that point and had Berry Gordy not pulled some strings, the new Motown would not have ever signed her. So she came back and no one even asked to work with her, let alone guide her career like Berry and Motown had done in the past. She came there with the same mindset she had at RCA and destroyed what was left of her own recording career. She did that!

So the question is why do you care so much about a woman you loathe but are real obsessed with 24/7?

[Roberta75]

Nile and Diana are friends. Just today he posted the following:


“Diana Ross changed my life. She allowed me to compose, orchestrate and play after #discosucks made me persona non grata to most. Friends for life.”


BAM......well done. The problem is the Diane obsessor tells more lies about Diana Ross that the fool in the White House.

[Boogiedown]

Nile and Diana are friends. Just today he posted the following:


“Diana Ross changed my life. She allowed me to compose, orchestrate and play after #discosucks made me persona non grata to most. Friends for life.”

That's almost a backhanded complement , "no one else would have us so we were left doing Diana Ross"..:p. It's not even accurate, Chic had not crashed , they were the hottest ticket of 1979... and DIANA just cemented their worth.
But I'm glad they're friends, they should be.

Rodgers' autobiography is one I have not read....need to ....I wonder if in it , he discusses the WORKIN' OVERTIME project. Would love to hear his perspective. Is it a proud work of his ? He strikes me as a fish out of water doing that music style, both of them for that matter.

[sup_fan]

aside from the snarkiness going on here, i do agree with the general statement that her return to motown failed to have much oomph or excitement around her initial release. maybe the label agreed with her and pretty much everyone else that the album wasn't a winner.

There have been lots of stories about her alienating people - some probably true, some probably fiction. But maybe the making of the WO album was stressful too for all involved and so that added to the atmosphere.

[Roberta75]

That's almost a backhanded complement , "no one else would have us so we were left doing Diana Ross"..:p. It's not even accurate, Chic had not crashed , they were the hottest ticket of 1979... and DIANA just cemented their worth.
But I'm glad they're friends, they should be.

So is thisc also backhanded?














https://scontent-lax3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-1/c0.0.32.32a/p32x32/1473014_10152094013033923_1959775061_n.jpg?_nc_cat =111&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-2.xx&oh=a7e9c4451972188ae054df8f5b26deb1&oe=5D0B19CF [[https://www.facebook.com/NileRodgersOfficial/)
Nile Rodgers [[https://www.facebook.com/NileRodgersOfficial/) This is a song I wrote to thank her. It was great playing with her two nights ago. I'll be forever grateful and loaded with love for Diana and Bernard Edwards.

[Levi Stubbs Tears]

"no one else would have us so we were left doing Diana Ross"..:p. It's not even accurate, Chic had not crashed , they were the hottest ticket of 1979... and DIANA just cemented their worth.
But I'm glad they're friends, they should be.

Rodgers' autobiography is one I have not read....need to ....I wonder if in it , he discusses the WORKIN' OVERTIME project. Would love to hear his perspective. Is it a proud work of his ?

In 1980 - when 'diana' came out Chic were not at all hot. Their own album was a flop [[like the next one would be), the follow-up to Sister Sledge's great 'We Are Family' album had also flopped and the album by Sheila [[& B Devotion) was also not much of a success. All of these were released around the same time as Diana's and it was probably only her star power that helped it escape from the 'disco sucks' mentality of the time. It is true that Nile & Nard were probably spreading themselves a bit thin in 79/80.

One of the curious things back then was that with the dramas about Diana remixing the album to make it 'less Chic' there was a quote from her in the press saying 'I loved working with Bernard' [[and no mention of Nile) but obviously they patched up any differences by Working Overtime [[for better or for worse).

Unfortunately Nile's autobiography is very light on in regards to the musical detail of many of his most famous works, let alone WO.

[Boogiedown]

So is thisc also backhanded?




https://scontent-lax3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-1/c0.0.32.32a/p32x32/1473014_10152094013033923_1959775061_n.jpg?_nc_cat =111&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-2.xx&oh=a7e9c4451972188ae054df8f5b26deb1&oe=5D0B19CF [[https://www.facebook.com/NileRodgersOfficial/)
Nile Rodgers [[https://www.facebook.com/NileRodgersOfficial/) This is a song I wrote to thank her. It was great playing with her two nights ago. I'll be forever grateful and loaded with love for Diana and Bernard Edwards.



don't know .....haven't seen the lyrics:p

[Roberta75]

don't know .....haven't seen the lyrics:p

Oh sorry.....i thought you could read the inner mind and thoughts of Nile Rodgers.

[Boogiedown]

In 1980 - when 'diana' came out Chic were not at all hot. Their own album was a flop [[like the next one would be), the follow-up to Sister Sledge's great 'We Are Family' album had also flopped and the album by Sheila [[& B Devotion) was also not much of a success. All of these were released around the same time as Diana's and it was probably only her star power that helped it escape from the 'disco sucks' mentality of the time. It is true that Nile & Nard were probably spreading themselves a bit thin in 79/80.

One of the curious things back then was that with the dramas about Diana remixing the album to make it 'less Chic' there was a quote from her in the press saying 'I loved working with Bernard' [[and no mention of Nile) but obviously they patched up any differences by Working Overtime [[for better or for worse).

Unfortunately Nile's autobiography is very light on in regards to the musical detail of many of his most famous works, let alone WO.

we are on the same page with this. by 1980 Chic had crashed. But 1979 was a huge year for them . Their own platinum album hit #5 on the Billboard top 200 album chart , and Sister Sledge's platinum album reached #3 on that same chart that year. Hard enough heights for rock albums, never mind disco .
That's where they were at when Diana Ross signed on with them at the end of '79.
You're right, Chic's next album would tank when it came out a couple of months after DIANA. I wouldn't completely blame the anti-disco sentiments that existed that Rodgers mentions, the album stank then and still does to this day. The same for the follow-up Sister Sledge album which came out in 1980 a couple of months before DIANA. Were they as good as their predecessors , their fans would've forced their success on a reluctant industry [[ just as DIANA did).

Looking over all of this now, Nile' s gratitude for the Diana Ross project is spot on. How it shone the way it did , seems to have beaten the odds and maybe it drained the last spurt of Niles and Rodgers' creativity. Ross herself likely deserves a good amount of credit as it was her input about what she wanted the material to express that helped give them direction.
Certainly the success of the DIANA album paved the way for the duo to further work with known acts like Carly Simon and Debbie Harry , for whom , unfortunately , they provided more crap, before finding their way to more successful results with others.

So to be sure , Nile Rodgers , now looking back at the total picture, has every reason to consider Diana Ross one of his most valuable friends.

I wonder how that Sheila & B. Devotion project came to be?? They were European and only popular there. How did they team up?

Sorry to learn the Rodger's auto is thin on details. I was afraid of that . So many of them are. Wish these people would learn from the Mary Wilson/Raynoma Gordy handbook of book writing, if you're going to write about it, REALLY do it , other wise why waste our time.

[Levi Stubbs Tears]

Chic's next album would tank when it came out a couple of months after DIANA. I wouldn't completely blame the anti-disco sentiments that existed that Rodgers mentions, the album stank then and still does to this day.

I quite liked that album [[particularly '26' and 'I Loved You More') but there weren't any obvious hits on it.


I wonder how that Sheila & B. Devotion project came to be?? They were European and only popular there. How did they team up?

I think it was just that her record company got in touch with Nile/Nard after she'd had a hit with a disco version of 'Singin in the Rain' as they were wanting a hit album [[which didn't quite work out even though 'Spacer' was a reasonable success though not in the US).

[marv2]

I quite liked that album [[particularly '26' and 'I Loved You More') but there weren't any obvious hits on it.



I think it was just that her record company got in touch with Nile/Nard after she'd had a hit with a disco version of 'Singin in the Rain' as they were wanting a hit album [[which didn't quite work out even though 'Spacer' was a reasonable success though not in the US).


I thought "Spacer" was a great record in 1980.

[Boogiedown]

I quite liked that album [[particularly '26' and 'I Loved You More') but there weren't any obvious hits on it.



I think it was just that her record company got in touch with Nile/Nard after she'd had a hit with a disco version of 'Singin in the Rain' as they were wanting a hit album [[which didn't quite work out even though 'Spacer' was a reasonable success though not in the US).


It makes sense that Sheila , [[she used to be Sheila B), being eager to break the US market, would seek out what appeared to be the hottest production team in the US. SPACER is quality lively Chic stuff but to me the somber sounding vocal delivery is at odds with the composition. It looks like after this effort Sheila lost her devotion to having a singing career.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-Wdchhd9nc

I wonder if this tune was offered to Diana Ross for her LP, but she declined it. Does the vocalizing here seem to sort of mirror her? Reminds me somewhat of MY OLD PIANO.

[Bluebrock]

It makes sense that Sheila , [[she used to be Sheila B), being eager to break the US market, would seek out what appeared to be the hottest production team in the US. SPACER is quality lively Chic stuff but to me the somber sounding vocal delivery is at odds with the composition. It looks like after this effort Sheila lost her devotion to having a singing career.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-Wdchhd9nc

I wonder if this tune was offered to Diana Ross for her LP, but she declined it. Does the vocalizing here seem to sort of mirror her? Reminds me somewhat of MY OLD PIANO.

I think it was under consideration for the album, but was overlooked prior to the recording of the album.

[Guy]

I quite liked that album [[particularly '26' and 'I Loved You More') but there weren't any obvious hits on it.

Agree. Musically, "Real People" is elegant and funky and shows Nile & Bernard trying to move beyond disco. It still holds up today. Unfortunately, Chic was so synonymous with disco it suffered the backlash.

[PeaceNHarmony]

Fact remains "WO" sold rings around/multiples of/exponentially better/hella more than anything any other Supreme issued as a solo. In fact, probably more than all of them put together over the entire course of their careers. The advantage the out-of-the-box, first-solo-project scud-missile bomb debuts have is that there is never any success in the first place to come down from.

[motownlover1964]

I find it odd that while discussing Working Overtime the topic of sales, or lack thereof, of the other Supreme's is brought up. Why is that necessary in this thread?

We ALL know that Diana has the career, the hits, the movies and is still selling out concerts; that is not new information. I find it disconcerting to drag the other Supremes "down" in this thread. It's mean-spirited and so unnecessary.

[PeaceNHarmony]

I find it odd that while discussing Working Overtime the topic of sales, or lack thereof, of the other Supreme's is brought up. Why is that necessary in this thread?

We ALL know that Diana has the career, the hits, the movies and is still selling out concerts; that is not new information. I find it disconcerting to drag the other Supremes "down" in this thread. It's mean-spirited and so unnecessary.Hi there Motownlover! I believe that it is necessary as there are several here who don't believe your first sentence is correct. Best to you!

[motownlover1964]

Thanks, PNH. After I posted it I had second thoughts as I didn't want to be perceived as giving you a load of b.s. I appreciated your response. Kind regards to you, too.

[Ollie9]

WO it seems is a bit like marmite, you either love it or hate it. I for one have always loved it.
Perhaps Diana could have played it safe and made a more pop orientated album to mark her return to the company. It probably would have been the sensible thing to do. As it was she took a risk, put the sequin frocks in storage and went for it.
IMO the album is fresh and innovative, featuring some really inspiring songs and sensitive ballads. My only critique being the vocals are a little to high on a couple of the songs.
For fans who hate the album, i find it just as perplexing how anyone can enjoy the soulless and quite anaemic WDFFIL project..... Horses for courses as we say in the UK.

[sup_fan]

Maybe the album would have been better received if 1) the songs were recut in a slightly lower key and 2) there was a big more variety on the album. she dove into the deep end with this sound and perhaps wading in from the shallow end would have been more prudent. Add in a few more classic pop/r&b tunes and cut some of the harsher material. But she'd still have some up to date and modern tracks like Bottom Like, Say We Can, etc.

[Bluebrock]

WO it seems is a bit like marmite, you either love it or hate it. I for one have always loved it.
Perhaps Diana could have played it safe and made a more pop orientated album to mark her return to the company. It probably would have been the sensible thing to do. As it was she took a risk, put the sequin frocks in storage and went for it.
IMO the album is fresh and innovative, featuring some really inspiring songs and sensitive ballads. My only critique being the vocals are a little to high on a couple of the songs.
For fans who hate the album, i find it just as perplexing how anyone can enjoy the soulless and quite anaemic WDFFIL project..... Horses for courses as we say in the UK.

I agree with you that WDFFIL was a dull and bland affair. It was by far her worst effort since Last Time i Saw Him., but i would even have to give those two turkeys the nod over Workin Overtime. Maybe i shall have to re-evaluate it when [[if) the proposed 2 disc expanded edition ever sees the light of day, along with the far superior 3 Motown albums that followed it. I am still hopeful they will appear this year.

[Boogiedown]

I agree with you that WDFFIL was a dull and bland affair. It was by far her worst effort since Last Time i Saw Him., but i would even have to give those two turkeys the nod over Workin Overtime. Maybe i shall have to re-evaluate it when [[if) the proposed 2 disc expanded edition ever sees the light of day, along with the far superior 3 Motown albums that followed it. I am still hopeful they will appear this year.

But what WDFFIL had going for it , to make it seem like an event , was a ton of hype put behind it from RCA. How else are you going to make its lead single of which the album is titled after , a 50's tune remake --- seem like something we've all been waiting for from Diana Ross.
That's what baffles me about WORKIN' OVERTIME , Diana Ross is finally back on Motown , and this is it?? This is the result? And even if no one thinks this is going to be a home run , you fake it!! Like RCA, you work what you got ! How often do you get to welcome Diana Ross back? This is a one shot opportunity , you gotta milk it.

I can only conclude that the confidence in this work was that low , it really wasn't worth pumping effort into and would likely be an embarrassment. Much ado about nothing.
The collaboration with Nile Rodgers alone should've been a winning angle. Together again at last. But Motown only subtlety references the Chic connection by using the same "diana" logo on the cover . I'm guessing they didn't want to over promise by promoting this renewed association.
There is nothing "Chic" sounding about the LP. Nile does not pick up and play his trademark guitar once. The entire LP's music is just artificial programming , great if you like that sound , but not Chic sounding , and with plenty of current artists of the day pumping that stuff out, ... which of Diana's fans were hoping to hear it from her ? Apparently not many.

BTW it's not a dig at Diana Ross to say WORKIN' OVERTIME was her worst chart performing album, when you release 20 albums and rank them , one of them has to be at the bottom. It's just astonishing to me that it would turn out to be this one , her first Motown album in twenty years.

[sup_fan]

another angle that we've not discussed is Motown as a label. by the late 80s, motown was NOT the solid and innovative label it once was. frankly it had never rebounded from their peak years in the 60s. if one was looking to find hot and new hip hop and new jack swing music, motown would not have been an initial label you'd have looked to. So perhaps some blame falls on them too. perhaps they were desperate as a label to crack this category and hoped that a mega name like DIANA ROSS would help facilitate that.

also Diana didn't initially sign with Motown. after she left RCA she signed with MCA and released If We Hold On Together on that label. MCA then bought motown and "they" decided to place diana back on her home label. not sure exactly who all decided or pushed for this - did diana ask for it once the sale was finalized? did the MCA execs want to do it? did the motown team request it?

[Boogiedown]

another angle that we've not discussed is Motown as a label. by the late 80s, motown was NOT the solid and innovative label it once was. frankly it had never rebounded from their peak years in the 60s. if one was looking to find hot and new hip hop and new jack swing music, motown would not have been an initial label you'd have looked to. So perhaps some blame falls on them too. perhaps they were desperate as a label to crack this category and hoped that a mega name like DIANA ROSS would help facilitate that.

also Diana didn't initially sign with Motown. after she left RCA she signed with MCA and released If We Hold On Together on that label. MCA then bought motown and "they" decided to place diana back on her home label. not sure exactly who all decided or pushed for this - did diana ask for it once the sale was finalized? did the MCA execs want to do it? did the motown team request it?

In my poking around , I was surprised to discover this, and was about to get into it as well. Diana Ross signed with MCA and was flabbergasted that about that time MCA then bought out Motown and wanted to transition her to that label! The way I read it, if Diana had any idea it was headed this way she never would've signed with MCA.
I guess Berry talked her into going along with it, got some perks added to the deal, a partial ownership for her.
So maybe WORKIN' OVERTIME was an MCA project that then wound up being on Motown?? This to me would explain the decision to approach her first Motown album this way, with this kind of content . Because even if Motown was no longer the label it once was , they still had a strong roster of acts from Diana's era, it [[to me) defies logic that you wouldn't tap into that to create a welcome back to the family story line.

One thing that is clear , there was little fanfare centered around Diana's return , so it doesn't seem like a thrill abounded from any angle.

What also still puzzles me is why choose Nile Rodgers and then not really use him . Looks like all the programming of the synths were done by Greg Smith and Nile mostly hung around.

Here're some rather unconvincing comments imo about this project from Diana:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LOYUYPAvs4

[sup_fan]

well if anything, her first MCA effort [[if we hold on) is MUCH more Diana than anything on WO. It's a nice song but nothing overly special. Just sort of a typical DR ballad that you can hold hands and sway to. frankly she's done more than enough of those and if IWHOT was any indication of her work to come at MCA, at least WO was a change of pace!

interesting to hear that she was NOT overly excited about the return to Motwn

[Levi Stubbs Tears]

'Eaten Alive' with its' Michael Jackson title track, Supremes-sounding 'Chain Reaction' and follow-up single 'Experience' would have suited a 'return to Motown' album.

[marv2]

another angle that we've not discussed is Motown as a label. by the late 80s, motown was NOT the solid and innovative label it once was. frankly it had never rebounded from their peak years in the 60s. if one was looking to find hot and new hip hop and new jack swing music, motown would not have been an initial label you'd have looked to. So perhaps some blame falls on them too. perhaps they were desperate as a label to crack this category and hoped that a mega name like DIANA ROSS would help facilitate that.

also Diana didn't initially sign with Motown. after she left RCA she signed with MCA and released If We Hold On Together on that label. MCA then bought motown and "they" decided to place diana back on her home label. not sure exactly who all decided or pushed for this - did diana ask for it once the sale was finalized? did the MCA execs want to do it? did the motown team request it?

It really didn't matter what company name was printed on the label of her records at that point, because by that time she was considered by the public to be an oldies artist. No one that I can remember cared about any new material she released or would release moving forward.

[Levi Stubbs Tears]

No one that I can remember cared about any new material she released or would release moving forward.

You should have made some British friends and they could have told you about the two Top10 and three Top40 songs that charted from 'The Force Behind The Power' album a couple of years later ;)

[marv2]

You should have made some British friends and they could have told you about the two Top10 and three Top40 songs that charted from 'The Force Behind The Power' album a couple of years later ;)

We didn't have the internet then and in America, hardly anyone has ever heard that song or others from that album.

In America, Diana Ross was a member of the Supremes in the 60s and a Disco diva in the 70s. That is what the general public here will think of when her name is mentioned. Many have forgotten that she made some movies, but if you mention Lady Sings the Blues, they will remember if they are of a certain age.

[Roberta75]

We didn't have the internet then and in America, hardly anyone has ever heard that song or others from that album.

In America, Diana Ross was a member of the Supremes in the 60s and a Disco diva in the 70s. That is what the general public hear will think of when her name is mentioned. Many have forgotten that she made some movies, but if you mention Lady Sings the Blues, they will remember if they are of a certain age.

Again with the fabricattions and fake news. you know thats not really true because you mention Diane Ross every single day so thank you for keeping this Presidential Medal of Freedom award lady and Kennedy Center honoree in the news and helping her sell out Radio City Music Hall in hours. You really are her greatest fan and stalker.

[Ollie9]

[QUOTE=Boogiedown;507799]In my poking around , I was surprised to discover this, and was about to get into it as well. Diana Ross signed with MCA and was flabbergasted that about that time MCA then bought out Motown and wanted to transition her to that label! The way I read it, if Diana had any idea it was headed this way she never would've signed with MCA.
I guess Berry talked her into going along with it, got some perks added to the deal, a partial ownership for her.
So maybe WORKIN' OVERTIME was an MCA project that then wound up being on Motown?? This to me would explain the decision to approach her first Motown album this way, with this kind of content . Because even if Motown was no longer the label it once was , they still had a strong roster of acts from Diana's era, it [[to me) defies logic that you wouldn't tap into that to create a welcome back to the family story line.

One thing that is clear , there was little fanfare centered around Diana's return , so it doesn't seem like a thrill abounded from any angle.

What also still puzzles me is why choose Nile Rodgers and then not really use him . Looks like all the programming of the synths were done by Greg Smith and Nile mostly hung around./QUOTE]

An interesting post, but why do you think Diana would have been flabbergasted at the thought of returning to motown and why do you think she would never have signed with MCA had she known what might happen?.
Berry said in his book that Diana rang him begging him not to sell Motown and that she was ready to return to the label. It's no secret that she was unhappy at RCA and felt she wasn't supported. She has also said herself in interviews that leaving the label made her realise all the things motown actually did for her.
Despite any synth programming, i think the WO album sounds a lot looser then diana did which at times is a little mechanical sounding. I never thought that much of the Chic mixes, but have since come to appreciate the more spacious, funky arrangements.

[Albator]

Again with the fabricattions and fake news. you know thats not really true because you mention Diane Ross every single day so thank you for keeping this Presidential Medal of Freedom award lady and Kennedy Center honoree in the news and helping her sell out Radio City Music Hall in hours. You really are her greatest fan and stalker.
He is, for sure.

[sup_fan]

I'm actually a huge fan of hers and followed her throughout her career. But i will admit that from a contemporary musical force in the US, she really wasn't a major factor by the late 80s and beyond. Sure people remember her name, she appears on talk shows and in the news. but the vast majority of the american public was not aware of her releases through the 90s. there was a bit of activity within some of the dance clubs, and primarily the gay ones with Take Me Higher and I Will Survive.

but for the most part, when people were looking at current music trends, she was not in their thinking

[Boogiedown]

[QUOTE=Boogiedown;507799]In my poking around , I was surprised to discover this, and was about to get into it as well. Diana Ross signed with MCA and was flabbergasted that about that time MCA then bought out Motown and wanted to transition her to that label! The way I read it, if Diana had any idea it was headed this way she never would've signed with MCA.
I guess Berry talked her into going along with it, got some perks added to the deal, a partial ownership for her.
So maybe WORKIN' OVERTIME was an MCA project that then wound up being on Motown?? This to me would explain the decision to approach her first Motown album this way, with this kind of content . Because even if Motown was no longer the label it once was , they still had a strong roster of acts from Diana's era, it [[to me) defies logic that you wouldn't tap into that to create a welcome back to the family story line.

One thing that is clear , there was little fanfare centered around Diana's return , so it doesn't seem like a thrill abounded from any angle.

What also still puzzles me is why choose Nile Rodgers and then not really use him . Looks like all the programming of the synths were done by Greg Smith and Nile mostly hung around./QUOTE]

An interesting post, but why do you think Diana would have been flabbergasted at the thought of returning to motown and why do you think she would never have signed with MCA had she known what might happen?.
Berry said in his book that Diana rang him begging him not to sell Motown and that she was ready to return to the label. It's no secret that she was unhappy at RCA and felt she wasn't supported. She has also said herself in interviews that leaving the label made her realise all the things motown actually did for her.
Despite any synth programming, i think the WO album sounds a lot looser then diana did which at times is a little mechanical sounding. I never thought that much of the Chic mixes, but have since come to appreciate the more spacious, funky arrangements.

Ollie, I read it in an interview of Diana Ross I stumbled on. I'll look for it, and post a link , hope I can find it again. I don't want to misstate what I recall reading.

RE: The sound on WO. I wasn't following Nile Rodgers by this time , was that the kind of music he was doing I wonder ? Otherwise what made Diana Ross think of him ? Doesn't make sense from a guitarist.

If Diana had an awakening and re-appreciated Motown , why did her return wind up so lackluster ? Shouldn't there have been champagne toasts all-around? If Diana was happy , [[ which you'd expect her say publically regardless) then it must be as marv says , it was Motown then that wasn't thrilled being stuck with her. They may have looked at it that way if MCA said , "here's Diana Ross , you've got no choice ."
And maybe it was simply bad timing. Motown must have been in turmoil , Berry Gordy handing them off to MCA.

Still they were fools to not have capitalized on it. Did Lionel Richie say "no way!". Smokey? Weren't they all needing a little career boost ? They didn't perceive opportunity ?

That album cover should have been of Diana Ross standing in front of Hitsville USA, looking gleeful , arms raised , armpits showing ..."here I am back where I belong!".

[marv2]

I'm actually a huge fan of hers and followed her throughout her career. But i will admit that from a contemporary musical force in the US, she really wasn't a major factor by the late 80s and beyond. Sure people remember her name, she appears on talk shows and in the news. but the vast majority of the american public was not aware of her releases through the 90s. there was a bit of activity within some of the dance clubs, and primarily the gay ones with Take Me Higher and I Will Survive.

but for the most part, when people were looking at current music trends, she was not in their thinking

She had a good run though from roughly 1963 -84.

[marv2]

[QUOTE=Ollie9;507886]

Ollie, I read it in an interview of Diana Ross I stumbled on. I'll look for it, and post a link , hope I can find it again. I don't want to misstate what I recall reading.

RE: The sound on WO. I wasn't following Nile Rodgers by this time , was that the kind of music he was doing I wonder ? Otherwise what made Diana Ross think of him ? Doesn't make sense from a guitarist.

If Diana had an awakening and re-appreciated Motown , why did her return wind up so lackluster ? Shouldn't there have been champagne toasts all-around? If Diana was happy , [[ which you'd expect her say publically regardless) then it must be as marv says , it was Motown then that wasn't thrilled being stuck with her. They may have looked at it that way if MCA said , "here's Diana Ross , you've got no choice ."
And maybe it was simply bad timing. Motown must have been in turmoil , Berry Gordy handing them off to MCA.

Still they were fools to not have capitalized on it. Did Lionel Richie say "no way!". Smokey? Weren't they all needing a little career boost ? They didn't perceive opportunity ?

That album cover should have been of Diana Ross standing in front of Hitsville USA, looking gleeful , arms raised , armpits showing ..."here I am back where I belong!".

She, Diana Ross said at the time that she was listening to a lot of music her kids were listening to and wanted to do something similar. It just didn't work. It was totally not the image of her that had been cemented with the public.

[PeaceNHarmony]

I'm actually a huge fan of hers and followed her throughout her career. But i will admit that from a contemporary musical force in the US, she really wasn't a major factor by the late 80s and beyond. Sure people remember her name, she appears on talk shows and in the news. but the vast majority of the american public was not aware of her releases through the 90s. there was a bit of activity within some of the dance clubs, and primarily the gay ones with Take Me Higher and I Will Survive.

but for the most part, when people were looking at current music trends, she was not in their thinkingTrue, and I don't think many of us are really saying otherwise. Most popular music follows a zeitgeist and after nearly 30 years and many changes of public taste in music styles the younger audience [[who buy the majority of music) was looking for newer names and styles. That's the same reason why the vast majority of soul artists rooted in the 60's and 70's were off the charts entirely. But Diana, along with a handful of others [[Stevie, MJ, etc) still had major deals and still sold out concerts. AND - presented albums like WO to fans who were happy to hear them!

[TomatoTom123]

But what WDFFIL had going for it , to make it seem like an event , was a ton of hype put behind it from RCA. How else are you going to make its lead single of which the album is titled after , a 50's tune remake --- seem like something we've all been waiting for from Diana Ross.
That's what baffles me about WORKIN' OVERTIME , Diana Ross is finally back on Motown , and this is it?? This is the result? And even if no one thinks this is going to be a home run , you fake it!! Like RCA, you work what you got ! How often do you get to welcome Diana Ross back? This is a one shot opportunity , you gotta milk it.

I can only conclude that the confidence in this work was that low , it really wasn't worth pumping effort into and would likely be an embarrassment. Much ado about nothing.
The collaboration with Nile Rodgers alone should've been a winning angle. Together again at last. But Motown only subtlety references the Chic connection by using the same "diana" logo on the cover . I'm guessing they didn't want to over promise by promoting this renewed association.
There is nothing "Chic" sounding about the LP. Nile does not pick up and play his trademark guitar once. The entire LP's music is just artificial programming , great if you like that sound , but not Chic sounding , and with plenty of current artists of the day pumping that stuff out, ... which of Diana's fans were hoping to hear it from her ? Apparently not many.

BTW it's not a dig at Diana Ross to say WORKIN' OVERTIME was her worst chart performing album, when you release 20 albums and rank them , one of them has to be at the bottom. It's just astonishing to me that it would turn out to be this one , her first Motown album in twenty years.


In my poking around , I was surprised to discover this, and was about to get into it as well. Diana Ross signed with MCA and was flabbergasted that about that time MCA then bought out Motown and wanted to transition her to that label! The way I read it, if Diana had any idea it was headed this way she never would've signed with MCA.
I guess Berry talked her into going along with it, got some perks added to the deal, a partial ownership for her.
So maybe WORKIN' OVERTIME was an MCA project that then wound up being on Motown?? This to me would explain the decision to approach her first Motown album this way, with this kind of content . Because even if Motown was no longer the label it once was , they still had a strong roster of acts from Diana's era, it [[to me) defies logic that you wouldn't tap into that to create a welcome back to the family story line.

One thing that is clear , there was little fanfare centered around Diana's return , so it doesn't seem like a thrill abounded from any angle.

What also still puzzles me is why choose Nile Rodgers and then not really use him . Looks like all the programming of the synths were done by Greg Smith and Nile mostly hung around.

Here're some rather unconvincing comments imo about this project from Diana:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LOYUYPAvs4


Ollie, I read it in an interview of Diana Ross I stumbled on. I'll look for it, and post a link , hope I can find it again. I don't want to misstate what I recall reading.

RE: The sound on WO. I wasn't following Nile Rodgers by this time , was that the kind of music he was doing I wonder ? Otherwise what made Diana Ross think of him ? Doesn't make sense from a guitarist.

If Diana had an awakening and re-appreciated Motown , why did her return wind up so lackluster ? Shouldn't there have been champagne toasts all-around? If Diana was happy , [[ which you'd expect her say publically regardless) then it must be as marv says , it was Motown then that wasn't thrilled being stuck with her. They may have looked at it that way if MCA said , "here's Diana Ross , you've got no choice ."
And maybe it was simply bad timing. Motown must have been in turmoil , Berry Gordy handing them off to MCA.

Still they were fools to not have capitalized on it. Did Lionel Richie say "no way!". Smokey? Weren't they all needing a little career boost ? They didn't perceive opportunity ?

That album cover should have been of Diana Ross standing in front of Hitsville USA, looking gleeful , arms raised , armpits showing ..."here I am back where I belong!".

Boogie, you are totally right about the album not sounding anything like Chic. It's very new jack swing, which I assume was intentional :p but doesn't make sense when you think Nile Rodgers was the producer. Why not get a new jack swing producer?!

However, from what I do know about Nile in the 80s, he definitely branched out away from the Chic sound, with the Madonna, INXS, Duran Duran stuff.

I'm revisiting Chic's 1992 album Chic-ism right now, which I remember thinking was entirely and utterly average when I first listened to it, but now I like it a lot!!! It's definitely more Chic than Workin' Overtime, I mean it even has horns!!!! :)

[Ollie9]

She, Diana Ross said at the time that she was listening to a lot of music her kids were listening to and wanted to do something similar. It just didn't work. It was totally not the image of her that had been cemented with the public.

You hit the nail on the head . It was less about the genre or quality of the music and more about the image people had of M's Diana Ross and what she SHOULD sound like. Add to that the fact she was 45 at the time and it becomes a hard sell.
I myself think this a huge shame as there are some very decent songs on the album.

[Ollie9]

[QUOTE=Ollie9;507886]

Ollie, I read it in an interview of Diana Ross I stumbled on. I'll look for it, and post a link , hope I can find it again. I don't want to misstate what I recall reading.

RE: The sound on WO. I wasn't following Nile Rodgers by this time , was that the kind of music he was doing I wonder ? Otherwise what made Diana Ross think of him ? Doesn't make sense from a guitarist.

If Diana had an awakening and re-appreciated Motown , why did her return wind up so lackluster ? Shouldn't there have been champagne toasts all-around? If Diana was happy , [[ which you'd expect her say publically regardless) then it must be as marv says , it was Motown then that wasn't thrilled being stuck with her. They may have looked at it that way if MCA said , "here's Diana Ross , you've got no choice ."
And maybe it was simply bad timing. Motown must have been in turmoil , Berry Gordy handing them off to MCA.

Still they were fools to not have capitalized on it. Did Lionel Richie say "no way!". Smokey? Weren't they all needing a little career boost ? They didn't perceive opportunity ?

That album cover should have been of Diana Ross standing in front of Hitsville USA, looking gleeful , arms raised , armpits showing ..."here I am back where I belong!".

I would really love to read that interview boogie if you can find it.
There was a fair bit of promotion for the album, at least in the UK. Diana has never been one for sentimentality or nostalgia so i would imagine the last thing in the world she would have wanted at that point in time was an album cover of her standing in front of Hitsville.
Had Lionel or Smokey wanted to be involved with her return album i feel sure Diana would have said thanks, but no thanks. I think the only reason she hooked up with Nile is because of the "diana" connection. Jam & Lewis would have been a far better choice. One only has to listen to Janet Jacksons "Rhythm Nation" to realise this
Obviously for those who enjoy Diana's adult contemporary material or her work with the Supremes, WO is most probably not going to be the album for you.

[PeaceNHarmony]

[QUOTE=Boogiedown;507911]

I would really love to read that interview boogie if you can find it.
There was a fair bit of promotion for the album, at least in the UK. Diana has never been one for sentimentality or nostalgia so i would imagine the last thing in the world she would have wanted at that point in time was an album cover of her standing in front of Hitsville.
Had Lionel or Smokey wanted to be involved with her return album i feel sure Diana would have said thanks, but no thanks. I think the only reason she hooked up with Nile is because of the "diana" connection. Jam & Lewis would have been a far better choice. One only has to listen to Janet Jacksons "Rhythm Nation" to realise this
Obviously for those who enjoy Diana's adult contemporary material or her work with the Supremes, WO is most probably not going to be the album for you.

Perfectly stated, all around. Historical note: Ella Fitzgerald tried different recording styles, including Cream's 'Sunshine of Your Love', and Ella is still revered, as is Diana.

[Ollie9]

All very true PNH.
Has anyone noticed that the "originally posted by heading seems to have gone a little askew lol!!

[daviddh]

[QUOTE=Boogiedown;507911]

She, Diana Ross said at the time that she was listening to a lot of music her kids were listening to and wanted to do something similar. It just didn't work. It was totally not the image of her that had been cemented with the public.

just my thought, it seems to me that every time Diana has branched out and tried something new. Love Hangover, Upside Down, for example. she did well. I have never got into her image thing . some do. I think the bottom line is the music. but this album needed a different mix. some good songs but it was off for me. I remember reading when Diana album came out in 1980, the album was remixed by Russ. I wonder if Russ would have mixed this album , it may have sounded better. to me the answer is yes.
although I am a fan of the Bee Gees and of the Eaten Alive album. there are tracks that have to much of the Bee Gees sound. I have felt the same way about this album on a few tracks if Russ could have mixed a few of these tracks and different backing vocals were used. bottom line, it seems ,at times attention to detail was not applied and the results were less than thrilling.
one of the reasons I was excited when I heard there was a chance of these albums getting expanded was the chance to see what Kevin Reeves may do with some updated mixes. whether that happens is a waiting game for us. but the bottom line ,it seems to be unclear to me as Diana wanted more control of her music but kind of went with the flow here. after 25 years in the music business I would think she would have some sense as to what direction she wanted to go ,and if she was unhappy, why not go a different direction. just confusing

[Boogiedown]

[QUOTE=Ollie9;508073]

Perfectly stated, all around. Historical note: Ella Fitzgerald tried different recording styles, including Cream's 'Sunshine of Your Love', and Ella is still revered, as is Diana.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tC5hXBt5RIs

Interesting . l'm hearing Janis Joplin in here ....

[Bluebrock]

[QUOTE=marv2;507931]

just my thought, it seems to me that every time Diana has branched out and tried something new. Love Hangover, Upside Down, for example. she did well. I have never got into her image thing . some do. I think the bottom line is the music. but this album needed a different mix. some good songs but it was off for me. I remember reading when Diana album came out in 1980, the album was remixed by Russ. I wonder if Russ would have mixed this album , it may have sounded better. to me the answer is yes.
although I am a fan of the Bee Gees and of the Eaten Alive album. there are tracks that have to much of the Bee Gees sound. I have felt the same way about this album on a few tracks if Russ could have mixed a few of these tracks and different backing vocals were used. bottom line, it seems ,at times attention to detail was not applied and the results were less than thrilling.
one of the reasons I was excited when I heard there was a chance of these albums getting expanded was the chance to see what Kevin Reeves may do with some updated mixes. whether that happens is a waiting game for us. but the bottom line ,it seems to be unclear to me as Diana wanted more control of her music but kind of went with the flow here. after 25 years in the music business I would think she would have some sense as to what direction she wanted to go ,and if she was unhappy, why not go a different direction. just confusing
I am not sure there are any plans to remix any tracks David. It is my understanding that remixes from the time would be included of which there are a great many, and a couple of outtakes. This would be sufficient to make it a 2 disc edition. Similarly with Take me higher. Force and everyday will probably be single disc editions, but there is enòugh material to take them close to 80 minutes.

[Bluebrock]

[QUOTE=PeaceNHarmony;508077]


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tC5hXBt5RIs

Interesting . l'm hearing Janis Joplin in here ....

What an outstanding and versatile vocalist Ella was. Not everything she recorded worked, but she was never less than interesting. A true one off.

[Bluebrock]

[QUOTE=Boogiedown;507911]

I would really love to read that interview boogie if you can find it.
There was a fair bit of promotion for the album, at least in the UK. Diana has never been one for sentimentality or nostalgia so i would imagine the last thing in the world she would have wanted at that point in time was an album cover of her standing in front of Hitsville.
Had Lionel or Smokey wanted to be involved with her return album i feel sure Diana would have said thanks, but no thanks. I think the only reason she hooked up with Nile is because of the "diana" connection. Jam & Lewis would have been a far better choice. One only has to listen to Janet Jacksons "Rhythm Nation" to realise this
Obviously for those who enjoy Diana's adult contemporary material or her work with the Supremes, WO is most probably not going to be the album for you.

We spent a lot of money promoting Workin Overtime in the UK, and we more than broke even. Had the album actually been a good piece of work it could have gone through the roof. Sadly no-one believed in the album. Diana hated it. I will not repeat here how she actually described the finished product. Nile's production was crass and lazy. It was the biggest creative mistake of her career. She dutifully promoted it like the professional performer she is, but once that tour was over she wanted to forget it ever existed.

[daviddh]

[QUOTE=Ollie9;508073]

We spent a lot of money promoting Workin Overtime in the UK, and we more than broke even. Had the album actually been a good piece of work it could have gone through the roof. Sadly no-one believed in the album. Diana hated it. I will not repeat here how she actually described the finished product. Nile's production was crass and lazy. It was the biggest creative mistake of her career. She dutifully promoted it like the professional performer she is, but once that tour was over she wanted to forget it ever existed.
do you think that different mixes would have worked

[Boogiedown]

it looks like new jack swing was a sound meant for a new generation, and not one suited for reviving the careers of struggling middle-aged artists.
Wiki has a list of acts who tapped into it. Not many older artists did , along with Diana Ross, I just see Aretha Franklin and Donna Summer listed , neither of which netted a bounce in their careers by doing so.

[marv2]

it looks like new jack swing was a sound meant for a new generation, and not one suited for reviving the careers of struggling middle-aged artists.
Wiki has a list of acts who tapped into it. Not many older artists did , along with Diana Ross, I just see Aretha Franklin and Donna Summer listed , neither of which netted a bounce in their careers by doing so.

I remember Donna Summer having a hit at the time of this Diana Ross album in 1989.

[Boogiedown]

yes , THIS TIME I KNOW ITS FOR REAL, from the SAW camp.

.... The new jack swing stuff came about later , in '92[[?) on her MISTAKEN IDENTITY album.

[Bluebrock]

[QUOTE=Bluebrock;508095]
do you think that different mixes would have worked

Perhaps. Had i been given the option i would not have released the album in it's released form. It was a travesty that it was ever sanctioned to be released in the way that it was.

[Bluebrock]

Hard to believe it was 30 years ago. I even feel old typing it!!.
30 years on and there are still so many songs i still enjoy from this album.
I don't really think Nile was the best choice of producer and many of the songs are cut in to high a key. Having said that Diana sings with passion and it was nice that she threw something new at us.
I love the albums artwork which made a nice change from the usual glamour shots.
I know i am in the minority, but for me WO was a solid.consistant album with some very catchy numbers. Had it produced a few chart hits and been a tad more pop in production i think it would be viewed far more kindly today by Ross fans at large.

Check your inbox Ollie.

[jobeterob]

I think working overtime was the worst Diana Ross effort since the Banjo Pkaying song in about 1962

Diana had massive international success in the 90s but her American potential of 1995 was similar to that of the Supremes and Temptations in 1975

Diana has recovered awesomely in recent years

[Boogiedown]

I would really love to read that interview boogie if you can find it.


Found it Ollie! Or rather here's The Diana Ross Project quoting her comments to Billboard at the time:

“MCA was interested in me, and I never thought I was going to go back to Motown,” she told Billboard. “Somewhere, in the meantime, Berry [Gordy, Jr.] sold the company to MCA, and they were buying it with the thought that some of the artists on MCA would move to Motown. I’d already made the deal when they approached me.”
And so Diana Ross ended the 1980s exactly as she had begun them, as an artist on Motown Records; her only proper MCA release was the 1988 theme song to animated film The Land Before Time, a lovely ballad called “If We Hold On Together,” ..............


https://dianarossproject.wordpress.com/2012/06/10/workin-overtime-1989/

[PeaceNHarmony]

Ross rocks! Even a 30 year old album that most fans consider not her best gets 150 comments!

[Ollie9]

Found it Ollie! Or rather here's The Diana Ross Project quoting her comments to Billboard at the time:

“MCA was interested in me, and I never thought I was going to go back to Motown,” she told Billboard. “Somewhere, in the meantime, Berry [Gordy, Jr.] sold the company to MCA, and they were buying it with the thought that some of the artists on MCA would move to Motown. I’d already made the deal when they approached me.”
And so Diana Ross ended the 1980s exactly as she had begun them, as an artist on Motown Records; her only proper MCA release was the 1988 theme song to animated film The Land Before Time, a lovely ballad called “If We Hold On Together,” ..............


https://dianarossproject.wordpress.com/2012/06/10/workin-overtime-1989/

Belated thanks for finding this Boogietown....have been away.
I played the WO cd in my car today, singing along as i drove to work. I will admit i did skip "What Can One Person Do" finding the key a tad piercing at such an early hour.

[sansradio]

Belated thanks for finding this Boogietown....have been away.
I played the WO cd in my car today, singing along as i drove to work. I will admit i did skip "What Can One Person Do" finding the key a tad piercing at such an early hour.

That's funny...that very song popped up on my iPhone this afternoon while I was shopping and I sang along! Guess I played it in your stead.:p

[Ollie9]

That's funny...that very song popped up on my iPhone this afternoon while I was shopping and I sang along! Guess I played it in your stead.:p

I trust you sung it in the same key lol.

[sansradio]

I trust you sung it in the same key lol.

An octave lower...trust. :p

[Boogiedown]

Found it Ollie! Or rather here's The Diana Ross Project quoting her comments to Billboard at the time:

“MCA was interested in me, and I never thought I was going to go back to Motown,” she told Billboard. “Somewhere, in the meantime, Berry [Gordy, Jr.] sold the company to MCA, and they were buying it with the thought that some of the artists on MCA would move to Motown . I’d already made the deal when they approached me.”
And so Diana Ross ended the 1980s exactly as she had begun them, as an artist on Motown Records; her only proper MCA release was the 1988 theme song to animated film The Land Before Time, a lovely ballad called “If We Hold On Together,” ..............


https://dianarossproject.wordpress.c...overtime-1989/ [[https://dianarossproject.wordpress.com/2012/06/10/workin-overtime-1989/)
Belated thanks for finding this Boogietown....have been away.
I played the WO cd in my car today, singing along as i drove to work. I will admit i did skip "What Can One Person Do" finding the key a tad piercing at such an early hour.

You are welcome Ollie!

It's interesting that Diana mentions MCA as having plans to transfer "some" of their artists from MCA to Motown as being part of what made the Motown acquisition appealing. Were there , in fact, other artists , besides Diana that were transferred?
It seems to me, that MCA saw specifically that a major opportunity in acquiring Motown would be the opportunity to reunite Diana Ross with her trademark label.

Talking in circles here, but that's why it becomes curious that this event went so unheralded. I can only conclude that when MCA heard the OVERTIME project , its chance for meaningful success seemed so dire, that they decided rather than calling attention to it , and having it be received as disappointing, it would [[regrettably) be a better move to just let this reunification occur quietly.

[Ollie9]

If i'm being honest Boogie i can't really rememeber if Diana's return to motown was unheralded or shouted from the mountain tops, at least in the UK.
I agree that MCA must have thought it a natural to reunite Diana with her parent label but would be very surprised if that were one of or a specific reason for the acquisition. Diana's profile was pretty low at the time and her music sales were nothing to get excited about. It would have been a bit of a gamble for whoever signed her.
Just as a point of interest, WO received some very positive reviews in the UK. Not sure about USA.