View Full Version : ‘Blurred Lines’ Copyright Suit Against Robin Thicke, Pharrell Ends in $5M Judgment
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Motown Eddie
12-13-2018, 06:47 AM
https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/robin-thicke-pharrell-williams-blurred-lines-copyright-suit-final-5-million-dollar-judgment-768508/
marybrewster
12-13-2018, 12:41 PM
Good luck collecting!
bradsupremes
12-13-2018, 01:00 PM
I don't care what the judge says. If you played "Got To Give It Up" and then "Blurred Lines" on a piano, you would easily realize they are not the same song or that "Blurred Lines" doesn't resemble "Got To Give It Up" in any sense. I'm with Thicke/Pharrell on this.
marv2
12-13-2018, 01:16 PM
Congratulations to the family of Marvin Gaye!
marybrewster
12-13-2018, 04:47 PM
I don't care what the judge says. If you played "Got To Give It Up" and then "Blurred Lines" on a piano, you would easily realize they are not the same song or that "Blurred Lines" doesn't resemble "Got To Give It Up" in any sense. I'm with Thicke/Pharrell on this.
I agree. You broke it down beautifully in a previous post; some folks simply don't understand music.
And some folks don’t understand the law.
TomatoTom123
12-13-2018, 09:12 PM
Woah, that's a lot of money being owed. Personally I don't know if the songs are in any way similar in terms of the actual music / structure etc, but as songs I can hear that they sound alike. :)
carlo
12-14-2018, 11:03 AM
I don't care what the judge says. If you played "Got To Give It Up" and then "Blurred Lines" on a piano, you would easily realize they are not the same song or that "Blurred Lines" doesn't resemble "Got To Give It Up" in any sense. I'm with Thicke/Pharrell on this.
In my humble opinion, the similarities are not in the melody of the song, which is why it cannot be heard on piano. It's more in the background rhythm of the song and tempo. To my ears, they are not identical songs but it is clear to me that Got to Give It Up inspired Blurred Lines and basically borrows/samples from it. That cowbell rhythm [[I think that is what I am hearing in Marvin's song?) is very similar to that in Blurred Lines. Furthermore, in around 3:18 of Marvin's song [[part 1), his background vocal is extremely similar to the "you know you want it" lyrics, featured Blurred Lines. I suppose it is possible to hear a song differently, depending on what you are focusing on, but to me, I am not surprised they won the suit.
carlo
12-14-2018, 11:13 AM
...To add on to my post, it is possible that the similarities in Blurred Lines were unintentional. Art inspires new art everyday. Art is cumulative of our experiences and influences. Same applies to music. When someone knowingly and deliberately takes something from a preexisting piece of art or music, then yes, credit is due. In this case, it is arguable that lines are somewhat blurred [[how punny!). It is what it is.
If it walks like a duck, acts like a duck, sounds like a duck chances are it’s a duck.
alexstassi
12-14-2018, 12:11 PM
Its the groove!! The groove is similar and since when is a groove "copyrightable" Bill Withers summed it all up by saying if this is the case then the whole of Rock & Roll owes it to Chuck Berry.
marv2
12-14-2018, 12:12 PM
If it walks like a duck, acts like a duck, sounds like a duck chances are it’s a duck.
A duck that steals from deceased artists!
alexstassi
12-14-2018, 12:17 PM
Why didn't the MJ estate sue Cee Lo Green for "bright lights bigger city" or S club 7 for "don't stop movin" when both are clearly emulating the groove of Bille Jean... or is it cos they never made enough money to make suing them worthwhile
marv2
12-14-2018, 12:21 PM
Why didn't the MJ estate sue Cee Lo Green for "bright lights bigger city" or S club 7 for "don't stop movin" when both are clearly emulating the groove of Bille Jean... or is it cos they never made enough money to make suing them worthwhile
Why did Robin Thicke premptively sue the Gaye Family? He wanted to protect himself in advance because he knew that he stole from Marvin's work. That's why he did it!
You got that right Marv! If Jobete can win publishing for mashed potato time Gaye’s family certainly deserves this!
marybrewster
12-14-2018, 01:44 PM
In that theory, I wonder if there was ever a lawsuit with "Love Hangover". The background vocals of "Love to love you" are clearly a rip from Donna Summer's "Love to Love You Baby?"
marybrewster
12-14-2018, 01:48 PM
Its the groove!! The groove is similar and since when is a groove "copyrightable" Bill Withers summed it all up by saying if this is the case then the whole of Rock & Roll owes it to Chuck Berry.
That's the best explanation I've heard yet.
drewschultz88
12-14-2018, 04:10 PM
I'm just chiming in for the sake of conversation here, hoping to help articulate why people are so up in arms about this. Removing music from it, think about it like this: to say that songs with similar "feel" but different compositional elements are the same is akin saying two people wearing the same outfit are the same person. On the outside they look similar but they are obviously not identical.
Listen to these two versions of "Crazy" that have completely different feel, groove, and instrumentation. However, we recognize they are the same song because of the lyrics, the melody, and the chord progression.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyFwko9O2UE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-N4jf6rtyuw
The lyrics, melody, and chords of "Blurred Lines" and "Got To Give It Up" are different. The parts the instruments are playing are different between the two songs. However, both have the same instrumentation and a similar tempo. Not the same compositional elements. The reason why two different songs will sound different when played on one instrument alone [[piano, guitar, sang acapella, etc) is because those foundational compositional elements are different.
Sam Smith had to add Tom Petty as a writers credit for his hit "Stay With Me" because it had the same Melody and the Chord Progression as Petty's "Won't Back Down." They are two totally different tempos, different instrumentation, use different key centers, and have a different "feel," but Smith did the right thing by settling with Tom Petty because two out of the three of those basic compositional elements [[chords and melody, obviously the lyrics are different) were too similar:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nr4KbSU_UZw
All that said, it's insane that Robin Thicke preemptively sued the Gaye family. They should have just said publicly that the melody, chords, and lyrics are different and that you can't copyright a "feel" or a particular combination of instruments playing at a particular speed. I think this whole thing would have played out differently if that were the case. If we were still in the doo-wop era, with all of those 12/8 ballads of the time, everyone would be suing everyone for these same reasons.
Lastly, please note that I do think that "Blurred Lines" is a terrible song for a lot of different reasons, I just don't agree that it's infringement.
alexstassi
12-14-2018, 05:26 PM
I agree with the preemptive part.. its like igniting a fuse..
The issue here is once the Gaye's won this suit they then went on say "Happy by Pharrell sounded alot like Aint that Peculiar don't you think?"
Isn't that Smokey to decided AS the composer of that song? Besides i think Happy has more in common with the "feel" of Land of 1000 dances than Ain't that Peculiar.
marv2
12-14-2018, 07:18 PM
I agree with the preemptive part.. its like igniting a fuse..
The issue here is once the Gaye's won this suit they then went on say "Happy by Pharrell sounded alot like Aint that Peculiar don't you think?"
Isn't that Smokey to decided AS the composer of that song? Besides i think Happy has more in common with the "feel" of Land of 1000 dances than Ain't that Peculiar.
Well it's not like they don't have a reason not to trust Robin Thicke..... Listen to this and tell me who this sounds like. He is full of shit!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FdQLUUx5I8
marv2
12-14-2018, 07:20 PM
I'll make it easy for you.........
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lulD8Ulshsw
marv2
12-14-2018, 07:22 PM
His name should be Robin THIEF, not Robin Thicke!
detmotownguy
12-14-2018, 09:46 PM
Good one! I can’t believe this conversation is continuing. Marv, sometimes u just have to dumb it down!
marv2
12-14-2018, 09:58 PM
Good one! I can’t believe this conversation is continuing. Marv, sometimes u just have to dumb it down!
I know what you're saying DET. If you ever experienced having your work, something you built up or created from basically scratch basically stolen, then you know how Marvin's family must feel. I know I do. I have experienced it myself.
midnightman
12-15-2018, 02:55 AM
Robin and them sued them first. The ruling was fair.
Boogiedown
12-15-2018, 03:02 AM
I'll make it easy for you.........
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lulD8Ulshsw
shameless and sickening.
marv2
12-15-2018, 12:09 PM
Robin and them sued them first. The ruling was fair.
Yes he did. It is an old legal trick that Al Jolson use to use in the 20s. Sue the person you are about to harm to prevent them from suing you later........
marv2
12-15-2018, 12:11 PM
shameless and sickening.
His biggest hit "Lost Without You" was sung in the exact same falsetto style that Marvin Gaye used very effectively on several of his recordings!
carlo
12-15-2018, 12:50 PM
Just to throw it out there, it seems there are a few posts here asking, "How could anyone say that Robin copied Marvin?" It's not as if they entered a court room with a simple boom box and played back the song one time and the judge made a decision. I'm sure both sides brought in multiple music experts, analytical sound samples/exhibits, etc, to drive home their points. To me, it's very clear that one song influenced the other, with some identical musical elements shared between them. I also agree that Marvin influenced Robin Thicke's singing style 100%.
carlo
12-15-2018, 01:02 PM
Lastly, please note that I do think that "Blurred Lines" is a terrible song for a lot of different reasons
Totally agree!
marv2
12-15-2018, 01:04 PM
Just to throw it out there, it seems there are a few posts here asking, "How could anyone say that Robin copied Marvin?" It's not as if they entered a court room with a simple boom box and played back the song one time and the judge made a decision. I'm sure both sides brought in multiple music experts, analytical sound samples/exhibits, etc, to drive home their points. To me, it's very clear that one song influenced the other, with some identical musical elements shared between them. I also agree that Marvin influenced Robin Thicke's singing style 100%.
I agree Carlo. Also, I believe Robin Thicke is talented, but just lazy! He should develop his own style and creativity. I liked his Dad much better! LOL!
I wonder if Robin is talented. His follow up album bombed.
MIKEW-UK
12-15-2018, 03:05 PM
Comments anyone?
https://youtu.be/4ILn3Y1yNEI
marv2
12-15-2018, 03:27 PM
I wonder if Robin is talented. His follow up album bombed.
He may not really be talented. He thought he could get over by deceiving the public. He got away with it for a while......
marv2
12-15-2018, 03:29 PM
Comments anyone?
https://youtu.be/4ILn3Y1yNEI
That is awful! A clear ripoff of "Got to Give It Up". I want to check to see when it was released. Thanks MikeW-Uk
marv2
12-15-2018, 03:32 PM
Bunny's record came out in 1977 the same year as "Got to Give It Up", but months after Marvin's record.
Roberta75
12-15-2018, 11:41 PM
I wonder if Robin is talented. His follow up album bombed.
Your not a fan so why do you care? You do love to keep
bradsupremes
12-15-2018, 11:51 PM
Just to throw it out there, it seems there are a few posts here asking, "How could anyone say that Robin copied Marvin?" It's not as if they entered a court room with a simple boom box and played back the song one time and the judge made a decision. I'm sure both sides brought in multiple music experts, analytical sound samples/exhibits, etc, to drive home their points. To me, it's very clear that one song influenced the other, with some identical musical elements shared between them. I also agree that Marvin influenced Robin Thicke's singing style 100%.
If I remember correctly, I thought I read the judge barred musical experts from coming in to compare the songs on piano. By simply playing the two songs on a piano, it would have been very clear they are nothing alike and the ruling would have favored Thicke. The only thing Thicke stole was the sound of "Got To Give It Up" and that cannot be copyrighted.
TheMotownManiac
12-16-2018, 02:00 AM
I wonder if Robin is talented. His follow up album bombed.
Prior to Blurred Lines, Robin had one platinum and two gold albums. His follow up, an admitted departure of his previous work, hit number 6 pop and number 2 r&b on billboard album charts.
‘’Those stats may or may not denote talent, but they are considered successful by anyone’s standards. Many artists never have even one top ten album.
PeaceNHarmony
12-16-2018, 08:57 AM
Wasn't this settled already? Merry Cash-mas to those griftin' Gayes!
PeaceNHarmony
12-16-2018, 08:58 AM
Prior to Blurred Lines, Robin had one platinum and two gold albums. His follow up, an admitted departure of his previous work, hit number 6 pop and number 2 r&b on billboard album charts.
‘’Those stats may or may not denote talent, but they are considered successful by anyone’s standards. Many artists never have even one top ten album.
Not to mention that Robin is a good singer and song-writer. But, the agenda ...
marv2
12-16-2018, 09:18 AM
Not to mention that Robin is a good singer and song-writer. But, the agenda ...
Hopefully he'll get smart and be careful about stealing the work of others. He needs to put in the work or go take a seat somewhere.
Exactly. Time to pay some dues and prove it!
carlo
12-16-2018, 10:30 AM
If I remember correctly, I thought I read the judge barred musical experts from coming in to compare the songs on piano. By simply playing the two songs on a piano, it would have been very clear they are nothing alike and the ruling would have favored Thicke. The only thing Thicke stole was the sound of "Got To Give It Up" and that cannot be copyrighted.
Thanks Brad. Hmm that's interesting. I am now curious in regards to the details of the case and how the judge came to his/her conclusion, in light of an absence of testimonies from experts.
marv2
12-16-2018, 10:40 AM
Exactly. Time to pay some dues and prove it!
His reputation has definitely been damaged behind this. He even tried throwing Pharell under the bus!
If I remember correctly, I thought I read the judge barred musical experts from coming in to compare the songs on piano. By simply playing the two songs on a piano, it would have been very clear they are nothing alike and the ruling would have favored Thicke. The only thing Thicke stole was the sound of "Got To Give It Up" and that cannot be copyrighted.
You're right Brad, I read something similar.
Though in the case of "Million Dollar Baby" for me "plagiarism" is evident https://www.plagiarism.org/article/what-is-plagiarism
johnny_raven
12-16-2018, 02:19 PM
Though in the case of "Million Dollar Baby" for me "plagiarism" is evident https://www.plagiarism.org/article/what-is-plagiarism
Except that Marvin Gaye WAS credited as co-writer on "Million Dollar Baby"
marv2
12-16-2018, 03:14 PM
Robin Thicke lies around getting high and listening to Marvin Gaye. Then he gets up and re-records Marvin's MUSIC! LOL!!!! Pay 'em!
Except that Marvin Gaye WAS credited as co-writer on "Million Dollar Baby"
Thanks Johnny, I didn't know that.
marybrewster
12-16-2018, 05:21 PM
I wonder who the Gaye's will sue next.
marv2
12-16-2018, 06:09 PM
I wonder who the Gaye's will sue next.
Probably the Trumps!
Silly people. Suing and being vindicated and getting 5 million. They should give it all back ! I wonder who Robin will copy next!
Top ten rip off songs!! https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1GWMvCXdsG4
marv2
12-16-2018, 07:24 PM
Silly people. Suing and being vindicated and getting 5 million. They should give it all back ! I wonder who Robin will copy next!
I look at it this way. I am certain that the late Alan Thicke left money from his work to Robin and his brothers. At least now Marvin Gaye's children can receive some benefit from HIS work!
Exactly. It’s not complicated!
marv2
12-16-2018, 11:19 PM
Except that Marvin Gaye WAS credited as co-writer on "Million Dollar Baby"
That was only after Marvin Gaye's Estate sued Robin Thicke over it!
The songwriting credits on the album went to Andre Harrell and Thicke. They’re still listed as the composers of “Million Dolla Baby” on the album credits at AllMusic.com. However, Gaye is listed as the sole composer on the ASCAP site, which may have been a result of the settlement.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/03/17/looking-for-other-similarities-robin-thickes-million-dolla-baby-sounds-exactly-like-marvin-gayes-trouble-man/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.54e4b44bf688&wprss=rss_entertainment
marv2
12-16-2018, 11:22 PM
Thanks Johnny, I didn't know that.
What Johnny didn't say is that Marvin Gaye's family had to sue Robin Thicke over "Million Dolla Baby". Thicke only credited the songwriting to himself and Andre Harrell !
midnightman
12-17-2018, 04:16 AM
That was only after Marvin Gaye's Estate sued Robin Thicke over it!
The songwriting credits on the album went to Andre Harrell and Thicke. They’re still listed as the composers of “Million Dolla Baby” on the album credits at AllMusic.com. However, Gaye is listed as the sole composer on the ASCAP site, which may have been a result of the settlement.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/03/17/looking-for-other-similarities-robin-thickes-million-dolla-baby-sounds-exactly-like-marvin-gayes-trouble-man/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.54e4b44bf688&wprss=rss_entertainment
Whoa... didn't know that! Thought Marvin had always been credited. Definitely a result of the suit. The Gaye children did their damn homework!
midnightman
12-17-2018, 04:18 AM
Yes he did. It is an old legal trick that Al Jolson use to use in the 20s. Sue the person you are about to harm to prevent them from suing you later........
That's why I can't get with folks who try to downplay this. The ones who would be mad if Pat Boone had for some reason STOLE Little Richard's composition rights for Tutti Frutti are thinking the Gayes are grifters... I... don't get that logic at all.
midnightman
12-17-2018, 04:21 AM
I wonder if Robin is talented. His follow up album bombed.
He is talented. We have to remember when he did that album, which also slyly was also Marvin-ish in making a WHOLE album about his estranged, soon-to-be ex-wife, people had already turned on him because of Blurred Lines and him cheating on Paula so no one wanted to buy an album from him. Blurred Lines actually RUINED Robin's career but he really has no one to blame but himself. It wasn't like he was Elvis and he could shake off thrusting his pelvis...
midnightman
12-17-2018, 04:23 AM
If I remember correctly, I thought I read the judge barred musical experts from coming in to compare the songs on piano. By simply playing the two songs on a piano, it would have been very clear they are nothing alike and the ruling would have favored Thicke. The only thing Thicke stole was the sound of "Got To Give It Up" and that cannot be copyrighted.
Nah, the experts were brought in. They couldn't play the music. Sony barred them from doing that.
PeaceNHarmony
12-17-2018, 06:56 AM
I guess the Nat King Cole estate could sue the Gaye estate over stylistic appropriation, but I assume the Cole estate is far to classy.
bradsupremes
12-17-2018, 12:37 PM
Nah, the experts were brought in. They couldn't play the music. Sony barred them from doing that.
That's it. They couldn't play the music on a piano. They should have because it would have ruled in favor of Thicke.
PeaceNHarmony
12-17-2018, 04:50 PM
That's it. They couldn't play the music on a piano. They should have because it would have ruled in favor of Thicke.
I had forgotten about that aspect of the trial and agree with you entirely. The songs as written bear no similarity though the intros have the same feel. It's looked upon by the industry as a bad ruling. Maybe Gary US Bonds can sue those greedy, griftin' Gayes claiming GTGIU was copied from Quarter To Three??
midnightman
12-17-2018, 05:14 PM
That's it. They couldn't play the music on a piano. They should have because it would have ruled in favor of Thicke.
I'm not even too sure of that, Brad... it's possible... but I'm not too sure.
To be fair, other decisions similar to this haven't gone to the person who sued them first.
I still say the reason the Gaye family won was due to Robin and Pharrell suing THEM first. If that hadn't been the case, maybe a suit wouldn't have happened.
motony
12-17-2018, 05:36 PM
I actually like that Bunny Sigler record & bought it[[the 45) back in '77. It had that party sound.Like Kal Mann at Cameo/Parkway Records said "they won't sue ya unless your records a hit"thus Mashed Potato Time which I didn't think was that similar to Please Mr. Postman.I did however think "The 81" by Candy & the Kisses was a direct rip off of "In My Lonely Room" by Martha & the Vandellas...but "81" was not a big hit.
midnightman
12-17-2018, 06:30 PM
There were definitely some similarities between MPT and Postman. Maybe not enough to sue but enough lol
I doubt they would decide TOL in the publisher's favor. It'll just be dismissed and no one would sue them. Marvin's family hasn't. Ed Townsend's family did first. Remember that when y'all keep bashing Marvin's children lol
marv2
12-17-2018, 06:47 PM
There were definitely some similarities between MPT and Postman. Maybe not enough to sue but enough lol
I doubt they would decide TOL in the publisher's favor. It'll just be dismissed and no one would sue them. Marvin's family hasn't. Ed Townsend's family did first. Remember that when y'all keep bashing Marvin's children lol
I don't get that either. I have never heard any negative about any of Marvin's children before and I've known of them since they were small kids. They all have been through a lot and I am just happy that they were successful in this case.
PeaceNHarmony
12-17-2018, 09:12 PM
I actually like that Bunny Sigler record & bought it[[the 45) back in '77. It had that party sound.Like Kal Mann at Cameo/Parkway Records said "they won't sue ya unless your records a hit"thus Mashed Potato Time which I didn't think was that similar to Please Mr. Postman.I did however think "The 81" by Candy & the Kisses was a direct rip off of "In My Lonely Room" by Martha & the Vandellas...but "81" was not a big hit.
I GASP! You mean there's no lawsuit unless there's $$$ to be made? I'm sure it's ALL about artistic integrity :D
Cosmic Truth
12-18-2018, 02:56 AM
I don't care what the judge says. If you played "Got To Give It Up" and then "Blurred Lines" on a piano, you would easily realize they are not the same song or that "Blurred Lines" doesn't resemble "Got To Give It Up" in any sense. I'm with Thicke/Pharrell on this.
I admit I don't know anything about writing music etc, but the very first time I heard Blurred Lines I thought it the music was a sample from Got To Give It Up.
jobeterob
12-19-2018, 04:04 AM
What I wonder is what will ever be paid, how much, when, appeals, costs
PeaceNHarmony
12-19-2018, 06:52 AM
What I wonder is what will ever be paid, how much, when, appeals, costs
I thought the same. The case has been going on for years now; those g-g-Gayes will probably have big legal fees.
jobeterob
12-19-2018, 03:01 PM
The USA is famous for excessive awards, famous for cases that go on forever, cases that bleed money from everyone with little getting to the clients, and appeals that go on forever ending with some settlement agreement barring any publicity and 90% of the money went to the lawyers, accountants and consultants.
midnightman
12-19-2018, 06:17 PM
What I wonder is what will ever be paid, how much, when, appeals, costs
Depends on the contract people have with the lawyers they hired.
marv2
12-19-2018, 06:49 PM
What I wonder is what will ever be paid, how much, when, appeals, costs
It's going to get paid. Robin Thicke and Pharrell are hardly broke! The rest of your questions are none of your or our business. You should know that being in the legal field. The terms of a settlement are not discussed publicly usually.
kenneth
12-30-2018, 03:12 PM
The USA is famous for excessive awards...and 90% of the money went to the lawyers, accountants and consultants.
Are we against that, Jobeterob? LOL
bradsupremes
12-30-2018, 10:01 PM
I admit I don't know anything about writing music etc, but the very first time I heard Blurred Lines I thought it the music was a sample from Got To Give It Up.
That's because the arrangements are similar. The sound of "Blurred Lines" is copied from "Got To Give It Up." The actual song wasn't. I could take the "Hokey Pokey" and give it an arrangement that sounds exactly like "Baby Love." That doesn't mean the song was stolen.
jobeterob
12-30-2018, 11:10 PM
Are we against that, Jobeterob? LOL
Yes generally the American system is one we frown on in Canada; it’s bad enough here but worse in the USA; it encourages litigation and there are always questions about where the money went.
There’s a lot great another USA but so much is done to excess as president twitterbox shows daily
PeaceNHarmony
12-31-2018, 12:22 AM
That's because the arrangements are similar. The sound of "Blurred Lines" is copied from "Got To Give It Up." The actual song wasn't. I could take the "Hokey Pokey" and give it an arrangement that sounds exactly like "Baby Love." That doesn't mean the song was stolen.
Yup. You got it.
Cosmic Truth
01-10-2019, 06:57 AM
That's because the arrangements are similar. The sound of "Blurred Lines" is copied from "Got To Give It Up." The actual song wasn't. I could take the "Hokey Pokey" and give it an arrangement that sounds exactly like "Baby Love." That doesn't mean the song was stolen.
Like I said, I don't know anything abut writing, producing, or arranging, music.
PeaceNHarmony
01-10-2019, 12:12 PM
The USA is famous for excessive awards, famous for cases that go on forever, cases that bleed money from everyone with little getting to the clients, and appeals that go on forever ending with some settlement agreement barring any publicity and 90% of the money went to the lawyers, accountants and consultants.
That's interesting; I did not know it was a USA phenomenon.
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