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skooldem1
08-13-2010, 09:26 AM
Why do people say "The N Word"? Not the actual word, but "The N Word"?

juicefree20
08-13-2010, 10:28 AM
It's like the Lambada.

It's the forbidden word! I guess that it makes it go down easier if the word is alluded to, rather than actually said.

Either way, by any other name...

ollie
08-13-2010, 11:49 AM
It's political correct.

destruction
08-13-2010, 11:59 AM
You can't really be that "S" word.....so I guess this is a baby-troll?

skooldem1
08-13-2010, 12:38 PM
Is that directed at me? If so, please clarify exactly what you are saying.

soulster
08-13-2010, 12:56 PM
Skool,

People do not say the word out of respect. It's a very offensive word. There's no need to use it in today's world unless you are a bigot.

Juice, what is the Lambada? I never heard that word before.

skooldem1
08-13-2010, 01:12 PM
What exactly is the difference between:

1. N- Word
2. N*gger

Aren't they one and the same?

Are you sure that if a person decides to say #1 that it is "out of respect"

or

Does it simply make them feel better saying it....without really saying it?

splanky
08-13-2010, 01:37 PM
Oh
my
goodness!!!!

I was trying, I was trying really hard to stay the hell off of this thread, I swear I was
but this is getting too dang crazy!
Juice and Ollie, I wish I could be as nice as you guys but people who know me in
real life know I can sometimes be a blunt motherf**ker...

Okay, skool...

The term "The N-word" is used when refering to a word known to be offensive to many
while "N*gger" is used when one is trying to offend. I find it very hard to believe that as long as the term N-word has been around people such as yourself would not get that...

skooldem1
08-13-2010, 01:46 PM
Please don't get it twisted. I am not naive and my question is not as simple as some would like to make it.

When stories like the one with Mel Gibson or Dr. Laura are on the news, why doesn't the reporter just say....so and so called someone a "racial slur", or a racial slur was written on someones car, etc.

I will ask again. What is the point of saying "the N word"?

skooldem1
08-13-2010, 01:49 PM
Perhaps someone can explain to me why you think that a black person should not be offended because you dropped off "igger"? Are we suppose to feel better because there is now a new "term" to refer to black people? I am being serious here. Explain to me why I should not be offended?

destruction
08-13-2010, 02:05 PM
Skooldem1,

Yes it was directed at you..... but u don't have to respond..... You've already answered.

KevLo
08-13-2010, 02:48 PM
Hi this is Kev-Lo

I don't like it. I wish people would stop using it that word

splanky
08-13-2010, 03:07 PM
It's too late, kevlo. It's here to stay. Aside from the fact that at least 3 or 4 generations
of black, brown, red, yellow and beige kids, fans of hip hop music and culture think it's a
common pronoun, a lot of older black people believe the myth that they've reclaimed the term as a term of endearment. Yet when two black people argue and/or fight they
use the term with the same hate and same meaning as lynch mobs did in the south...

jillfoster
08-13-2010, 03:30 PM
Dr.Laura? Did she do a no-no that i don't know about?

jillfoster
08-13-2010, 03:58 PM
Ok, I found it... opinions??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yY0ccH7Hchw

jillfoster
08-13-2010, 04:03 PM
Now, from the above clip, we see that she thinks it's fine to use the word in the context of reference... but not to actually CALL someone that. Some people feel it should never be uttered at all, I don't agree with that, I feel that gives it too much power. interesting discussion, love to hear others opinions.

soulster
08-13-2010, 05:06 PM
What exactly is the difference between:

1. N- Word
2. N*gger

Aren't they one and the same?

Are you trolling? I cannot believe you are serious about this!

Are you sure that if a person decides to say #1 that it is "out of respect"

or

Does it simply make them feel better saying it....without really saying it?

Are you trolling? I cannot believe you are asking this stuff!

soulster
08-13-2010, 05:08 PM
Please don't get it twisted. I am not naive and my question is not as simple as some would like to make it.

When stories like the one with Mel Gibson or Dr. Laura are on the news, why doesn't the reporter just say....so and so called someone a "racial slur", or a racial slur was written on someones car, etc.

I will ask again. What is the point of saying "the N word"?

So dumbass people will know what the hell was said without actually having to say the word!

soulster
08-13-2010, 05:10 PM
Perhaps someone can explain to me why you think that a black person should not be offended because you dropped off "igger"? Are we suppose to feel better because there is now a new "term" to refer to black people? I am being serious here. Explain to me why I should not be offended?

I can't believe this shit! :rolleyes: And White people wonder why Black people get angry at them!

The way I see it, it's not that she used the "N" word, it's that she doesn't understand why it's offensive. On top of that, she revealed her bigotry with her little comment about "marrying outside your race".

soulster
08-13-2010, 05:53 PM
Now that i've had a few minutes to calm down:

That word, the "N" word (you know what it is) was created for one group of people, and only one: Black folks! African Americans! Coloreds! Negros! Mullattos! All that bullshit about it meaning a "bad or ignorant" person is just that, bullshit! It comes from people trying to justify the use of the word, just as much as those Black people why try to "own" the word by using it often. It means the same thing even though Whites and other non-Blacks try to justify it by whining that comedians and rappers use it. No, it doesn't excuse them, either. When Richard Pryor went to Nairobi back in the late 70s, he tells of he he was in the airport and realized that there were no n***ers there, only beautiful Black people! That's when he stopped using the "N" word. Then you get conservative morons like Dr. Laura who think we're too sensitive, or hypersensitive, or whatever she convinces herself is true. I haven't seen the news yet, but you can bet Rush Limbaugh will stick up for her and claim that she is the latest victim of the liberal media, or some kind of shit like that. Or, he'll say we're trying to guilt the White man for slavery or opposing Barrack Obama.

No, I guess i'm still pissed!

jonc
08-13-2010, 05:56 PM
Her "marrying outside your race" comment spoke volumes about how racist this woman actually is.

Laura Schlessinger is a proven Homophobe and a hypocrite and now she's been outed as a racist. Sadly I am not in the least surprised. This phony doctor does not even have a degree in psychology.

The only reason she apologized was to save her ratings. Watch her appear on the Sean KKKlannity show or O'Reilly and explain her behavior. FAUX will give her a pass.

soulster
08-13-2010, 07:05 PM
This really has nothing to do with the use of the N-word.

Dr, Laura, and most other whites, think they are correct on the subject of race. they don't even consider the perspective of any other group of people. And, when they do, they decide that they are wrong. That is what happened in this case. Notice early on in the call, Dr. Laura kept cutting off her caller to assert her world view without even considering the caller's view? She didn't even try to understand. She cut her off and argued. She has that air of superiority that she is right because she is white. Dr. laura has demonstrated that she knows nothing about Black people. And, as typical with most whites who try to defend their misguided views, she invoked the "My best friend is Black" defense.

I assume she will continue her show, but if she does, she needs to do exactly what she says, and discuss race on it. And, I don't mean frequently interrupt and talk everybody down like Sean Hannity or Bill O'Reilly do, I mean she should really LISTEN and LEARN!

jonc
08-13-2010, 07:24 PM
Her "my friend and bodyguard is black" line was bullshit and very offensive.

soulster
08-13-2010, 07:43 PM
Oh, don't you know that it's still very hip to have a Black friend these days?:D

ms_m
08-13-2010, 10:05 PM
Soulster in theory I don't disagree with what you're saying but it's time for both sides to take it down a notch and LISTEN.

I don't believe I'm about to say this but Skool Dem asked a great question but I haven't seen many people LISTENING to what he was trying to say, THINK about what he was saying, or try to LEARN OR UNDERSTAND.

Ask yourself this question, have you ever heard someone say, they used the "C" word when talking about Chinese, or The "S" word when talking about Latinos or the "H" word when talking about Caucasians.... so the question is valid but go back and look at the responses he received. Same type of thing happens from both sides of the fence in racial discussions so yes, although I agree that many Whites don't listen, I have to say many Blacks are hard of hearing as well.

This isn't a "they" problem but an "us" problem, cause we're all in this world together.

skooldem1
08-13-2010, 10:27 PM
Thanks Ms. M. Thanks to everyone who engaged. I think its an important discussion. I do think highly of many of you here, although we sometimes butt heads. I decided to start this discussion in this club because it is a diverse group of people and I truly was interested in hearing all the replies.

soulster
08-13-2010, 11:29 PM
Mr. M,

I do listen, and I do understand their side. It's just that I am getting sick and tired of that other side. Maybe you're past the anger stage, many of us aren't. I'm really not jumping on Skool, but I still cannot believe he asked if it was the samw word. Everyone knows that people say "the "N"-word to avoid saying that offensive word that starts with "N". If it's a political correctness thing, i'd say that it's a respect thing. The word shouldn't be used. I don't condone it when whites say it, I don't condone it for blacks, either. It's time to let the word fade from the language.

As I said before, this Dr. Laura issue really has nothing to do with that word, and I do not believe she was using it out of maliciousness. The parts that made me steam was just about everything else she said. It was preposterous for a white woman, whom I presume has spent little time with Black people in her life in any deep, meaningful way, would scold a black woman on being too sensitive about disparaging racial remarks from whites, then tell that she shouldn't have married outside of her race if she can't take a joke? Man, i'd love to be a fly on the wall in that woman's house right now!

I want to apologize to skool dem for my blowup. I will be happy to engage in some discourse about race. What kind of beer do you drink? :) Seriously, though, I find a good way to proceed with this type of topic is to offer personal experiences.

soulster
08-13-2010, 11:36 PM
In fact, skool dem, why not start a new thread with your question. Let's start fresh.

skooldem1
08-14-2010, 12:34 AM
The thing about Dr. Laura, and I must say I agree with Ms. M, I was more mad at her audacity to scold this African American woman on what she should be offended by. The nerve. Back to my original question. Perhaps I should have been more specific. I was mainly talking about news commentors. If there is some news story where that name is part of what ever the crime or situation is- why can't they just say that a racial slur was used? They are not doing me a favor saying "The N Word", I mean what is the point really? Its like a new buzz word.

tallone
08-14-2010, 12:54 AM
You know, I'm like so many of you who wanted to stay out of this conversation, but my sense of "lets set the record straight" won't let me. So here goes:
First off, I am in total agreement with Ms. M and her assesment. I could not have said it better.
Secondly, I understand why Soulster is still angry. Hell, so am I.
Thirdly, Skooldem has raised a most interesting thread, that for whatever the ungodly reason, most folk tend to ignore.
My point is this, until we get to the point where we are sick and tired, of being sick and tired of people calling us niggers, and we try to justify it by calling ourselves niggers, not the N*word, I said niggers, then this problem will continue until the end of time. Also, it is unfortunate that there will always be a Dr. Laura around to say that we are too "sensative" when it comes to being called everything but a human being. The question is, how long will we continue to let this outrage continue?

jillfoster
08-14-2010, 01:26 AM
You know what I would have said... when Dr. Laura said "So I guess you don't watch HBO or listen to any black comedians.." the caller should have said "No, I don't.... because i'm offended by such language". i'd love to see what Schlessinger would have said to THAT. I agree that everything else she said was WORSE than uttering the actual word, because it wasn't being directed at anyone. Al sharpton on CNN said, however, that she seemed to revel in saying it over and over during the call... and that's something to be taken into consideration. I think her apology is not genuine, I think she said what she meant. This is a very interesting discussion. I understand the philosophy that using a slur as a term of endearment is a way for some to take the negative connotation away, to drain the word of it's power, but if you EVER use it on your OWN in a negative way, then you're completely in the wrong, IMO.

juicefree20
08-14-2010, 02:35 AM
It you bake a cake with a dent in it, the cake still comes out dented.

No matter how some of my fellow brothers & sisters attempt to fall back on that lame "it takes the sting off of the word when we use it" nonsense, it's still tantamount to us slapping us in the face & in front of the very white folks who they claim to dislike so much, at that.

It's really warped when you think about it. These folks have actually fooled themselves into believing that a term of derision could in someway be turned into some sort of wonderful cry of self-affirmation. The truth is that everytime we use that word in reference to one another, it's just another opportunity for others to laugh dead in our faces due to the sheer ignorance of it.

I remember a time when there were 2 things that you dared not call a black person. 1, was the dreaded n-word & 2. The dreaded B-word, which would find you getting your butt kicked not just by the object of the slur, but a few family members, as well.

Folks who continue to excuse the blatant ignorance of those whom DESPITE the history of that word & our global experience as a people, really needs to find Leonard Nimoy & go in search of their dignity at warp factor 5.

ms_m
08-14-2010, 04:53 AM
Soulster I do not have to wear my anger on my sleeve to feel anger anymore than I have to smile and grin to feel joy.

I don't have the energy to discuss this anymore, sorry. We all have to get through life in our own way.

You're welcome Skool Dem.

splanky
08-14-2010, 07:34 AM
First someone implies that it would be better if instead of saying "the N word" people
just say N*gger outright. Then, after so much discussion the same person says he was
referring to news commentators specifically and would rather they say "a racial slur was
used"...

This has to be the most bizarre thread I've seen on the forum new or old in a very very
long time...

I don't think we need to star trek, search the outer limits or step into the twilight zone,

we are already there...

soulster
08-14-2010, 09:17 AM
Soulster I do not have to wear my anger on my sleeve to feel anger anymore than I have to smile and grin to feel joy.

I don't have the energy to discuss this anymore, sorry. We all have to get through life in our own way.

You're welcome Skool Dem.

My anger is genuine, and it's probably a reaction of what I have to deal witgh every day. I am also tired of smiling through it. It's not always better to take the "high road", and it's never therapeutic.

This reminds me of many years aho when a white friend of mine dated a black woman. He asked me an innocent question if all black people liked fried chicken. now, I was in kindergarten with him and we all grew up around the same people, bith black and white, but his girlfriend gos as upset about it as I am now with this latest incident. I was much calmer them and politely explained to him what it was. Maybe it's because I knew the guy personally, and I do not know skooldem.

skooldem1
08-14-2010, 09:28 AM
Soulster- are you upset because you think I'm a white guy asking these questions?

jillfoster
08-14-2010, 11:29 AM
You all brought up Star Trek... this exchange at 1:40 is the way things should be, IMO....wonder if it will ever happen?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8NeZvTBOUY

ollie
08-14-2010, 12:26 PM
The issue of race is so bizarre Splanky.
Ms. Foster that was a good example of evolution, excellent use of language.
Only if another guy from back'n the days would have shown up on the mamaship, the story could go a different way.

ms_m
08-14-2010, 12:33 PM
Sousletr, you really drain my energy.YOU said to me


Maybe you're past the anger stage, many of us aren't.

I answered by saying


Soulster I do not have to wear my anger on my sleeve to feel anger anymore than I have to smile and grin to feel joy.



You came back with defending your anger which at NO TIME did I question.......YOU DON'T LISTEN and I choose to walk away from a discussion where people do not listen. Have a good day Soulster.

ms_m
08-14-2010, 01:54 PM
After watching 5 installments of this Star Trek episode (what happened to the rest Jill Foster....LOL) I'm feeling like Spock so Splanky, let me ask you a question.

When you have a thought and you project that thought to others, do you sometime expand on that thought when you feel people may not understand what you are saying? I ask because that's how I see the "logical" evolution of Skool Dem's original thought/question. Ironically it was at the point he brought up the newscaster that I started to understand his point of view. With that understanding Splanky, I gave the original question more thought and concluded (in my mind) the question (to me) was valid. I'm not suggesting your thought process follow mine but I am trying to show you how I came to my conclusion.

I reacted (anonymously ) the same way many of you did but I did not respond right away, I continued to read what he had to say, I continued to LISTEN to gain more info which I hoped would help me understand where he was coming from. I'm not doubting that you see it as bizarre but in the words of Spock, your response does not seem logical to me. That's not a put down Splanky, that's me simply saying I really don't understand how you came to your conclusion. It's not me saying you are right or wrong, it's me saying I don't understand how you got from point A to point B.

soulster
08-14-2010, 02:07 PM
Soulster- are you upset because you think I'm a white guy asking these questions?

Actually, no. I'm not upset with you at all. I never really was. It was the question, coupled with this latest gaffe from yet another far-right conservative that has a high stature in our culture.

ms_m
08-14-2010, 02:12 PM
The English language is an interesting one in that a word or phrase can have different meanings but check this out (and I'm talking to anyone who is interested and no one in particular)....

...many people may read the above statement and say, she wants me to think like her yet no where did I say that, no where is there a word or phrase that can be interpreted as my saying that yet for those people who think I'm trying to tell them how to think, where did their thought come from? Did it come from what I wrote, or did it come from something based in their own minds? If you (a collective you) respond based on what you thought as oppose to what is said, where or how do you find that line where real communication and understanding begin? In my world, listening to your thoughts without listening to my words, is not listening to me. I see that a lot here on SDF and in the world in general. I think that's why so many conflicts break out.

Just a thought.

splanky
08-14-2010, 02:38 PM
Ms M, skool him or herself took most of the folks on this thread from point A to point W
for weird by not saying concisely what he or she meant in the first post. There is a difference for me between expanding on a thought or subject and what went on here.
You can say whatever you want in skool's defense but I'm really not interested in any more of his or her "ponderings"...

Excuse me...

ms_m
08-14-2010, 02:57 PM
Splanky, people are not always concise in their thoughts, that's the way it is sometimes. I understand your point of view and I apologize for not having the concise words to articulate mine (point of view)

Understanding, accepting and agreeing don't have to go hand in hand but of the three, I think understanding is the most important....but that's just me. Have a great day Splanky.

marv2
08-14-2010, 03:46 PM
Soulster, no, she revealed her true racism in the comments she made in closing about how she would have thought that by electing a black man as President that it would have ended black people demonizing white people for hating them just because they are black. In other words what she was saying was "haven't WE done enough for you people already...... This the same line of thinking after The Emancipation Proclamation, The Brown vs the Board of Education (Topeka,KS) and the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

skooldem1
08-14-2010, 04:50 PM
Excuse me? Ponderings? Whether or not I specified news people in my first post or not they are still PEOPLE. I asked why do people say that? Now I'm curious to know why a question has upset you so much. I simply asked a question, haven't been arguing with anyone or baiting anyone. So why are you really upset?

skooldem1
08-14-2010, 05:03 PM
For the record it was not after "so much discussion" it was like 5 post later. I must say that I really don't understand why a question, a healthy debate got you so upset. I'm really curious to know why. Help me understand where this is coming from. We all have our own experiences, and I'm not upset with you being upset.

soulster
08-14-2010, 07:15 PM
Soulster, no, she revealed her true racism in the comments she made in closing about how she would have thought that by electing a black man as President that it would have ended black people demonizing white people for hating them just because they are black. In other words what she was saying was "haven't WE done enough for you people already...... This the same line of thinking after The Emancipation Proclamation, The Brown vs the Board of Education (Topeka,KS) and the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

No, we are in 100% agreement! I thought I made that clear in my rants.

soulster
08-14-2010, 07:25 PM
For the record it was not after "so much discussion" it was like 5 post later. I must say that I really don't understand why a question, a healthy debate got you so upset. I'm really curious to know why. Help me understand where this is coming from. We all have our own experiences, and I'm not upset with you being upset.

I've been told by certain people months ago that I should just move, but I can't do that in this economic climate, and with my money issues right now. So, for the time being, I have to live and work in tea-bagger country, and I mean of the racist kind. What sets me off about your question is that it should have seemed obvious to you or anyone why that word shouldn't be used. It all tied in with the current political climate out there, and where I live, there's no way of avoiding uit or ignoring it. these people are in your face, and it takes all my strength not to assault them! It's that bad! These people do not listen, and they do not give anyone a chance. yeah, that's the way of the world, but it's also why I sometimes come out swinging.

If you had worded your initail post differently, and not had a track record for inflamatory (trolling) type posts, perhaps I would not have had that kind of reaction.

I would be more than happy to have the discussion if you would be a little more open with who you are.

skooldem1
08-14-2010, 07:40 PM
I stand by my initial post. It was just the initial question. Meant to be part of an ongoing evolving conversation. I was at work at the time and couldn't throw it all out there in one post. When I thought about what I was about to discuss I wanted to initially keep it simple. What was that again?

"Why do people say "The N Word"? Not the actual word, but "The N Word"?

Short and in my mind to the point. That is exactly what I meant to ask. I wasn't asking that question on a simple surface level. Perhaps that is what didn't come through, but it is certainly not something I feel sorry for.

jillfoster
08-14-2010, 07:41 PM
Soulster.... you were the one in Arizona, right? My best friend just moved back from there and basically said that mostly the people there are a bunch of assholes. There are areas of conservative people who arne't such jerks, even though I might not agree with their politics. I see that alot of your opinions might be colored by this hostile climate you are living in, and I understand that. If you do decide or are able to move, might I suggest anywhere in the midwest (NOT TEXAS) you'll find a much friendlier bunch around there...... or if that's not possible, maybe you can try to arrange your career and life so you don't have to answer to anyone. Just a few suggestions to reduce your stress level. Rural areas are nice, too..... if you want, you can keep to yourself and not even have to associate with your neighbors if you don't want to. Incidentally, my friend works in the horticultrue business (Like I do) but in Arizona, all these teabaggers are too cheap to hire someone who speaks english to do the work, so while they give lip service to "closing the borders" they are the first to hire a cheap illegal alien to trim their bushes and plant their flowers.

soulster
08-14-2010, 08:27 PM
Soulster.... you were the one in Arizona, right? My best friend just moved back from there and basically said that mostly the people there are a bunch of assholes. There are areas of conservative people who arne't such jerks, even though I might not agree with their politics. I see that alot of your opinions might be colored by this hostile climate you are living in, and I understand that. If you do decide or are able to move, might I suggest anywhere in the midwest (NOT TEXAS) you'll find a much friendlier bunch around there...... or if that's not possible, maybe you can try to arrange your career and life so you don't have to answer to anyone. Just a few suggestions to reduce your stress level. Rural areas are nice, too..... if you want, you can keep to yourself and not even have to associate with your neighbors if you don't want to. Incidentally, my friend works in the horticultrue business (Like I do) but in Arizona, all these teabaggers are too cheap to hire someone who speaks english to do the work, so while they give lip service to "closing the borders" they are the first to hire a cheap illegal alien to trim their bushes and plant their flowers.

Hi Jill,

Yup! I'm here in AZ, and in a rural area. Rural areas are NOT better! There are an awful lot of gun-touting, flag-waving assholes out here. Here's the kicker: most of them moved here from the midwest! The attitude I get comes more from the over 50 crowd, and there's a LOT of 'em here! It's also no surprise that most of the anti-Mexican crowd are from the midwest. They are scared of anyone who isn't white, and don't know or understand the diverse culture we have always had down here.

I come from the midwest and once lived in Texas. I will not live in Texas, nor will I live in Oklahoma. I'm from Kansas, and I know how bad that is. California is more my speed, but it's so frikkin' expensive! I need to finish my school so I won't have to work with the general public anymore. That alone would reduce my annoyance factor. We have those nuts who try to register with the state to become "sovereign citizens".

What's even crazier is when I meet some nice chick, and then she starts running down that tea-bagger crap. I had a nice conversation with one girl last week, until she started in on on how Obama took over GM, and wouldn't buy an "Obamacar".

But, back to the topic...

pshark
08-14-2010, 08:42 PM
Now what gets me is when kids think that if you substitute ger with ga that the meaning of the word changes. To me that's just ignorant thinking, or should I say ignant?
************************************************** **************

You all brought up Star Trek... this exchange at 1:40 is the way things should be, IMO....wonder if it will ever happen?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8NeZvTBOUYOK, here's a movie that shows William Shatner in a different light. SHAME! which was also titled THE INTRUDER & I HATE YOUR GUTS is a film directed by Roger Corman about an out-of-towner segregationist (Shatner) who stirs up trouble in this southern town. And yes they do say that forbidden word and not "N Word". Highly recommend you folks watch this
http://encyclopedia.jrank.org/articles/pages/950/The-Intruder-AKA-I-Hate-Your-Guts-and-Shame-1962.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbfyYvj4f9Q
Skool,

People do not say the word out of respect. It's a very offensive word. There's no need to use it in today's world unless you are a bigot.

Juice, what is the Lambada? I never heard that word before.Lambada, the forbidden dance. There was even a movie of that dance craze. I'm sure that slipped your mind

jillfoster
08-14-2010, 09:00 PM
I've certainly not had a problem here soulster... but then again, i'm one that doesn't associate with neighbors and the community in general. People can annoy the hell out of me in real life, so I keep to myself, and associate with people of MY choosing. That's why I have such a short fuse on a message board, I suppose!!! I'm not used to people chapping my hide! Perhaps a liberal college town would be more your speed? i'm of the opinion that people in AZ who moved there form the midwest did so because they have this "Outlaw John Wayne" "Wild West" mentality, and the midwest isn't so much like that. Texas is VERY like that. But like I said, I may just not be seeing it, because I isolate myself from the masses on purpose. It's like Roseanne said in that one episode of her show... "I consider myself a pretty good judge of people, and that's why I don't like none of em!" and I suppose since I still live where I was born and grew up, there's that advantage of being "Grandfathered in" so to speak. But hell, I'll kiss another man in public and think nothing of it... unless one is around drunk straight men or something, i'm not FOOL HARDY.

ollie
08-15-2010, 04:33 AM
If it is equality you look for, then you better not call the Dr. woman or anyone else for advice on the oldest problem of humanity. If you don't want to be engaged in conversations with people who'll use weasel words, don't go to TV Land. So people say what they shouldn't be saying. Let's check it from a different perspective. Why does it hurt you or causes anger in the first place ? True equality is a feeling inside that balances out the negative disharmony coming from your surrounding world. That is a equality, it brings you on the same level as every living thing. There is No answer to the question why people say dis or dat. If you feel equal then you have to walk and talk that way. So do you feel equal? Or is it the other way around, do you not feel equal? And i don't mean treated equal by other's, i mean do you feel equal inside of you?

nevertoolate
08-15-2010, 04:20 PM
In relation to Richard Pryors revelation...I had two friends who fell out, one was an
Asian immigrant one was from West Africa...me being black American..their argument
got heated and the Asian called my friend an African N****r..

What was interesting was that..the African just laughed in his face...so later the Asian
comes to me and apologizes for using the N word...Because when he came over he stayed with a white host family in an all white area and high school...

The white kids, he said taught him if you say that to a black person they wil get mad...

I said, "It has no meaning in the West African mindset, his core identity is not "black"
he knows he is black but he thinks of himself by his tribal ethnic group first"

So..I think Americans can learn to be thick-skinned like the Africans when it comes to names.."It's not what you call me, but what I answer to"

The N-Word nowdays is in many cases all about manipulation and shock value...

soulster
08-15-2010, 05:12 PM
What was interesting was that..the African just laughed in his face...so later the Asian
comes to me and apologizes for using the N word...Because when he came over he stayed with a white host family in an all white area and high school...

Back in the 70s, we used to say that the first word the Asians learned when they got off the boat was "ni**er.


So..I think Americans can learn to be thick-skinned like the Africans when it comes to names.."It's not what you call me, but what I answer to"

But, you, yourself, just told us that that word has no meaning to Africans. So, there's no need for them to grow a thick skin about it. But, if we allow Whites, and others to call us that "n" word, it's like letting them get away with it. It will not diminish it's value. They want you to think that, though, because it will give them permission to go ahead and use it at will.


The N-Word nowdays is in many cases all about manipulation and shock value... Of course it is! That's all it ever was. And, in some cases, it's worked.

nevertoolate
08-15-2010, 08:18 PM
The American cultural reaction is to fight back...In Ghana there were some Western professors talking about how
backward the country is and Black Americans...during the 60s riots..Maya Angelou overheard them and went to
tell them off making a scene...An African waiter was nearby and said "Why you let them people upset you?"

"Well they insulted our people and I could not just stand there"..."Oh its nothing"..."Have our people been insulted before?"
"yes" ..."and they still live?" "yes"..."They are like mice on an elephants back" ..Ghana was here when they came and it
will be here when they leave".."they will pass"

Her thought later on was "Even the most uneducated people here are so secure they can ignore white rudeness and insults"
and that that was the first time she saw "patience used as an agression as opposed to patience used as a defense"

soulster
08-15-2010, 10:24 PM
There is a difference in the two countries, Ghana and the U.S., and it's in the numbers and the power structure.

juicefree20
08-16-2010, 08:06 PM
Nevertoolate:

I don't know how it is where you live, but here in N.Y., the darkest of Africans think of American blacks as lowly niggers.

To be more precise, many ethnics who've been here for even 5 minutes from a wheel-well looks down their noses at American blacks. Here's an old trick that some employers used in order to evade problems as regards racism & things as such.

To get around charges that they didn't promote minorities, they would promote an ethnic of color & let me tell you, there's nothing quite like the power trip that some minority ethnics go on when placed in charge of blacks. Talk about black-on-black crime! The trick is that you can't really scream racial discrimination, as the abuser is also "black". HOWEVER, although the color of their skin screams "BLACK", in their minds, they aren't "black", but WE sure are "niggers" to them.

I often found it hilarious that individuals 2 weeks removed from an outhouse or a hut, could come here to our NATIVE land, then proceed to look down their noses at us, can barely speak the language but are fully fluent as regards calling folks "niggers"

In OUR homeland.

Ain't THAT a bitch!

nomis
08-16-2010, 09:38 PM
Maybe because we now live in a word of soundbite -News and information is told to us in instant bites - with no room for beyond a surface level.
The younger generation in the main do not even use the proper language and vocabulary - many can only write in "Txt" speak.
By using "N" it nullifys the subject -In keeping with this disturbing trend in human communication.

144man
08-17-2010, 06:09 AM
According to Wikipedia, the term, "the N word", only dates back as far as the trial of O.J. Simpson in 1995, when newspapers decided they needed a euphemism in their reports because repeated use of the word in full was deemed to be too offensive. Does anyone here know if they heard that term used before that date?

Presumably it is the high profile of that case that led the difference in treatment from other derogatory terms. Therefore people would freely say, "He called me a Dago/ Wog/ Kike" rather than "He called me the D word/ the W word/ the K word".

The use of the term, the N word, has spread to the UK; which is a bit strange as slavery was abolished in the British Empire as long ago as 1833, and the word in full has a lesser cultural impact here than it does in the USA.

marv2
08-17-2010, 12:50 PM
Juice, I know what you mean. I had a cab driver earlier this year get that attitude with me and I had to get in his ass about it. He later apologize and tried to give me this "you're not like the rest of them..... (African Americans) speech in reference to working hard etc and again I had to straighten him out about a lot of things all in a 15 - 20 minute cab ride!

juicefree20
08-17-2010, 05:14 PM
Skooldem:

Sorry for the delay in response. I got back home this morning from a week in N.C., with zero phone reception & extremely,EXTREMELY limited internet service.

"The Fordbidden dance" was the catch phrase that was used to push the movie "Lambada". The quote that I used came from the Fresh Prince episode "Kiss My Butler", where Geoffrey was revealing himself to be quite the dance floor stepper. While Geoffrey was dancing with Naomi Campbell, they did a bit of The Lambada & Will tells Jeff that they're doing The Lambada, then Will says "That's the forbidden dance".

bob_olhsson
08-17-2010, 07:27 PM
The "N-word" was never about race. It was about social class and standing.

Somebody pointed out to me that the "K-word" has almost been forgotten and I actually had to think for a few moments to remember what was meant by that. May we hasten the day that the same thing happens to the "N-word." It's a word that I think really deserves to be forgotten.

juicefree20
08-17-2010, 07:46 PM
Marv:

Indeed, that I know to be true.

I also find that other ethnics tend to overcharge us by at least 3 or 4 dollars. Truthfully, I believe that they do that so that we'll leave the cab & they can either cherry-pick whom they want to drive, or to hopefully find a sucker who doesn't know what the actual fare should be.

Either way, they do this far too often to be mere coincidence.

Ironically, the one ethnic group whom have been struggling here with us for decades (as well as our primary minority competitors), the Hispanics, tend to have lower prices than everyone. I have absolutely no problem with them, I've found their cab fares to be exceedingly fair, they don't tend to bullshit you & I appreciate their general fairness & lack of price-gouging.

Though I was originally not going to name the most eggregious of folks, I'm going to do so because I know that they're full of it & so do they. I've found that the most abusive of all cab drivers are either Arab, Indian & the ABSOLUTE worst of all, sorry to say, are the Africans. Many of them are rude, arrogant & when someone comes out the box charging $4 more than the going rate, I believe that to be extremely insulting to ones intelligence.

I wish that a day would come where all of this crap would cease. Then again, this situation goes back to biblical days & if it was happening then, I see nothing today which will change it. The sickening thing for me is that I think back to my childhood & teen years circa the mid-60s - 70s & see how little has truly changed. I grew up during a time when the authorities sprayed peaceful protesters with water hoses, set dogs loose on them, several riots occurred during that period, yet, I never truly experienced the level of prejudice that many did, as well as that which some are intent on revisiting today.

We were kids & we played like kids. There were always some, both black & white who weren't fond of one another & they certainly voiced that in no uncertain terms. However, usually if left to our own devices, we kids got along.

4 decades later, we've supposedly evolved & have made strides away from that negativity. But when you listen to the rhetoric found on talk radio, on blogs & even from the mouths of politicians, it makes you wonder beneath it all, have we REALLY moved away from the nonsense, or is it just something inherent, which only needs the right opportunity & circumstance to reemerge from its dormant state?

If I don't know anything else, I know that I'm sick of this crap & sick of having to discuss it. I guess that it's not really the discussion that makes me sick, but rather the NEED to have to discuss this crap nearly 50 years later.

soulster
08-17-2010, 09:00 PM
The "N-word" was never about race. It was about social class and standing.



I respectfully disagree with you. That word was created for one group of people and one only: African slaves in America.

marv2
08-17-2010, 09:17 PM
Juice, I actually had one driver give me money back. Yes incredible I know. In regards to the racial rhetoric heard on conservative talk radio and television they just feel it's safe now to be an out and out racist. Racists can come in any color. I'm met them. I do not like them. I am mostly disappointed, frustrated and angry and a bit sad that as you pointed out here we are nearly 50 years later and this shit is still going on.

marv2
08-17-2010, 09:18 PM
I respectfully disagree with you. That word was created for one group of people and one only: African slaves in America.

Bob, Soulster is right, unfortunately.

bob_olhsson
08-17-2010, 11:53 PM
... I guess that it's not really the discussion that makes me sick, but rather the NEED to have to discuss this crap nearly 50 years later.Exactly, a bitter disappointment.

bob_olhsson
08-18-2010, 12:14 AM
That word was created for one group of people and one only: African slaves in America.Certainly but there were comparable derogatory terms for every other American underclass. It's just the "N-word" lasted longer because rule by the upper class in the south was threatened by an ever more informed African American majority. This is what jim crow seems to have been all about, driving educated blacks who might vote away from the south and scaring lower class whites with negrophobia.

Dividing people to conquer them is a time honored tradition. Racism is just a tactic and too often talking about it is a distraction from the real evil which is greed, money and power.

juicefree20
08-18-2010, 01:13 AM
Bob:

You point is very accurate & well-taken & about the best explanation I've heard. It appears to me that more recent immigres have been much more accepted here. That's likely because of the thought process which found some people thinking that these newer immigrants would be so grateful to be here, that they'd be more accepting of receiving relative crumbs.

Under those circumstances, I find it rather ironic that the true enemy has proven NOT to be the centuries-old adversary whom many would STILL love to see take that long boat ride back to Africa, but rather relatively "new", so-called "ignorant, happy just to be here" folks, whom were welcomed with relatively open arms.

Even while preparing for the "coming" race war that many were preparing for, the point seemed to be missed that while they were planning to renew hostilities with AMERICAN CITIZENS, they were opening the door & taking for granted the ignorance & pliability of folks whom were so happy to be on these shores, that they'd be much easier to control.

Recent history has shown us that that assumption was proven wrong & to add insult to injury, many of those whom would do harm to us were taught how to inflict injury & unleash mayhem, right here in some of our finest American institutions of higher learning.

Ain't that a kick in the head?

bob_olhsson
08-18-2010, 01:55 AM
I was taught racism as a child along right with hating poor whites, renters, Catholics and farm workers in general. My mother, a teacher, and father, a carpenter, simply didn't know any better. It was a mythology they'd been taught. Thank God I wandered into Motown as a teen-ager and learned the truth first hand. My identity as a human being got expanded by immersion to include virtually everybody although right wingers are still a challenge.

I think our biggest challenge today is to help expand other people's sense of identity. This doesn't mean changing it but rather embracing and then building upon where we each came from instead of letting others sell us on the idea that our identity ought to be x y or z. If there is any big scam in the world, it's convincing people that they need to purchase or earn some kind of a limited identity. Madison Avenue and Wall Street are experts at this. So are the folks who turn kids into suicide bombers.

It's all really a life and death battle of consciousness.

juicefree20
08-18-2010, 01:57 AM
Bob:

What it really is is one big mind F.

I think that you understand what I mean

common
08-18-2010, 09:48 AM
Nevertoolate:

I don't know how it is where you live, but here in N.Y., the darkest of Africans think of American blacks as lowly niggers.

To be more precise, many ethnics who've been here for even 5 minutes from a wheel-well looks down their noses at American blacks. Here's an old trick that some employers used in order to evade problems as regards racism & things as such.

To get around charges that they didn't promote minorities, they would promote an ethnic of color & let me tell you, there's nothing quite like the power trip that some minority ethnics go on when placed in charge of blacks. Talk about black-on-black crime! The trick is that you can't really scream racial discrimination, as the abuser is also "black". HOWEVER, although the color of their skin screams "BLACK", in their minds, they aren't "black", but WE sure are "niggers" to them.

I often found it hilarious that individuals 2 weeks removed from an outhouse or a hut, could come here to our NATIVE land, then proceed to look down their noses at us, can barely speak the language but are fully fluent as regards calling folks "niggers"

In OUR homeland.

Ain't THAT a bitch!

Just wow! Juice, I’m really dismayed by your comments. Your comments literally generalize a whole continent of people, which it interesting enough, since African Americans complain that about the same thing anytime one of us displays bad behavior. Why not give Africans the same respect that they, too, should be generalized in that manner?

Obviously, you have some bad experiences with Africans (you didn’t say which country, which sometimes makes a difference) but not all of them view Africans as ‘lowly niggers’ as you call it. It is nothing more than a lack of cultural understanding and I think, the problem is also us because we believe everything that indigenious Africans hate African/Black Americans. That could not be further from the truth. From the other perspective, Africans have also said that African Americans hate them, calling them names, making fun of their accents and skin color, etc. It goes both ways as from what you also posted that they came out of ‘outhouses and huts’ which solidifies my point. From my understanding, there are people in this country that live in rural areas who probably still have outhouses. The country where my family is from, there are people that still have outhouses. Why is that such a horrible thing?

I have encountered many Africans, from different countries, who have been nothing but polite and courteous. Yes, you will have those that are rude or ‘rough’ but that could easily apply TO ANY ONE OF US. Just because you’re American, doesn’t immune you from behaving badly either.

Contrary to popular belief, Africans have a lot of exposure to African American culture via cable and the internet. If you want to blame Africans for their perceptions, look no further than the man in the mirror! With American rap artists tossing the ‘n’ word around and embracing the word, where do you think they got their ideas from? They think it’s cool to call the ‘n’ word because rap artists go to Africa and perform shows there. Time and time again, some of us in the African American have tried to stress that some of the images out there via tv, music and in movies, might have a negative impact on how people view us. We failed to realize that we live in a world that become more globalized via more expandng technology. Now, that that has happened, can you really get angry at those (and it’s not just ‘Africans’ either!) who come away the ideas that they have?

Lastly, as a person whose father came from South Africa and was inspired by the black power movement during (most Africans were as well) and a African Caribbean mother, your comments really disheartened me. Of course, you did not know about my background but as someone that you have met personally, did I ever come across in the way you have described in your post? I have never EVER thought myself better than anyone or even entertained the thought of my people as ‘lowly niggers’ (I still can't understand why African Americans are even trying to justify this foul word). That really hurt my feelings and reading comments like that really causes more division than the unity that you speak of it. It’s funny you mentioned that you’re ‘sick of crap’ like this and wish it will cease someday. On that point, I totally agree with you!

splanky
08-18-2010, 10:50 AM
Common, I believe Juice 's comments definitely come from some bad experiences he had
which I feels he would do better to deal with sometime soon. I, myself have met some Africans would were rude and some who didn't like Black Americans but I don't fret about them because I've also had a number of African friends over the years, most from
Mali, Nigeria, and Senegal but a couple from Zimbabwe who gave me an mbira as a present years ago. I have to agree with you that many American Blacks do give reason to be offended and embarassed by our shared ancestry and many of them are entertainers generally. Hip hop artists, particularly. Then again, hip hop is global now
so I don't expect that to change anytime soon. But it's not just the rappers, I've know
many people otherwise intelligent who I've heard talk about Africa and Africans
like they were themselves southern Klansman...

Juice, do yourself a favor and educate yourself...

GeeTee(HPK)
08-18-2010, 11:03 AM
Big ups to Ken Olbermann from MSNBC. ( He couldn't have said it better ! )
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/14/olbermann-blasts-dr-laura_n_682213.html

common
08-18-2010, 11:44 AM
Common, I believe Juice 's comments definitely come from some bad experiences he had
which I feels he would do better to deal with sometime soon. I, myself have met some Africans would were rude and some who didn't like Black Americans but I don't fret about them because I've also had a number of African friends over the years, most from
Mali, Nigeria, and Senegal but a couple from Zimbabwe who gave me an mbira as a present years ago. I have to agree with you that many American Blacks do give reason to be offended and embarassed by our shared ancestry and many of them are entertainers generally. Hip hop artists, particularly. Then again, hip hop is global now
so I don't expect that to change anytime soon. But it's not just the rappers, I've know
many people otherwise intelligent who I've heard talk about Africa and Africans
like they were themselves southern Klansman...

Juice, do yourself a favor and educate yourself...

Splanky:

Thank you for sharing. I’m glad that you have various experiments and it hasn’t dampened your perceptions of It hurts me as a woman who’s mother migrated here from the Caribbean in the 60s and have had her share of being discriminated against, outside as well as within her race. I have heard all the negative comments about African Americans growing up but as my family began to navigate the American system, they now have a better UNDERSTANDING of what African Americans have gone through. I have also educated my mom about a lot of things she didn’t know that African Americans had to deal with. The realization is that we all have a common ground, regardless, if a person migrated yesterday or 50 years ago. I have gotten a lot of my consciousness from my mother and read a lot of the struggles of mainly African Americans. I’ve also grown to understand that this is not merely African American struggle, it’s a global struggle. But that’s another animal for another time…..

Part of the cultural misunderstanding, speaking from the Caribbean side, is the way the immigrant is treated when they first arrive here. Some of these newly immigrants know of relatives or friends that have migrated here prior and base some of their perceptions on the stories they have heard from them (this is before the internet & tv. It’s only in the last 30-40 years that mostly all Caribbeans have had access to a tv.) . They hear about the stories about ‘those ‘foreigners’ taking their jobs’(my mom used to say, how can I take a job that they don’t want?)’, ‘they’re backward’, ‘wear loud colors’ (well, there is truth to that. Lol), ‘speak too fast’ (heard this a lot growing up), etc. It’s about being the ‘other’ and since African Americans have been the ‘other’ for so long, they see that there’s another group that has taken their place: African/Caribbean immigrants. It’s like the pecking order. We’ve been discriminated against so much that we end up doing it somebody else (sometimes ourselves, too). I’m not saying it’s intentional, for a lot of these ideas can also be blamed on the media and what we see and hear.

Another thing, I would like folks to consider: indigenous Africans may not have experienced the type of ‘racism’ that African Americans have but they have experienced ‘colonialism’. In my opinion, I look at it as another type of racism (trying to push the English or whatever Eurpean language on the indigenous, land grabbing by ‘outsiders’, exploitation of indigenous resources, skin color (yes, baby! Colonialism spread that disease over there too!) , class status, etc. They have issues, too, so we don’t know what type of mental baggage that an immigrant is bringing with them.

We also forget that African Americans discriminated against each other by ‘paper bag tests’ (skin color), hair, and class status. Matter of fact, Juice’s comment about ‘lowly niggers’ brought to mind some wealth African Americans who call working class/lower class AAs same thing! I’ve learned along time ago, that there will be people greater or lesser than myself. However, I’ve learned that regardless of their ‘greatness or lessness’ that they deserve respect.
Sorry for the long post, but I really had a lot to say. lol

splanky
08-18-2010, 12:14 PM
Never apologise for making your point, common, I just wish a lot of other people could understand it.
The harm done by colonialism is the history of the world. Often places that were one people or one country got chopped in half between different European nations and we're still seeing the effects...

juicefree20
08-18-2010, 03:15 PM
Common:

You & I go back a long ways & I love you like ice cream, but I'm a bit puzzled at your response. I'm sorry if my remarks hurt your feelings because at no time did I say that ALL Africans behaved in that way & I don't know why you would take remarks that I made about some or many & put yourself in that number. Did I somehow cloud my statement, because I thought that it was pretty straight-forward & I'm puzzled at the focus on the remarks that I made in regards to Africans.

"I don't know how it is where you live, but here in N.Y., the darkest of Africans think of American blacks as lowly niggers"...

Perhaps I should've prefaced that statement with the same qualifier that I gave other remarks of mine..."many". And I'm willing to stand by that statement, as being my experience, observations & even conversations which I've had with more than a few Africans. Now, had I said ALL Africans, I could understand there being a problem with me saying that. Had I said EVERY African, I could understand there being a problem. Had I even said MOST Africans, then I could certainly understand anyone have a problem with me making such a blanket statement. At all points, I offered the qualifier MANY. I'm sorry if my lack of including it as regards my opening statement led you to think that I was painting any or all Africans with the same broad brush.

As for the outhouse remark, that was not directed specifically at any specific ethnic group. I thought that was crystal-clear by the very quote of mine that you copied, which was..."To be more precise, MANY ETHNICS who've been here for even 5 minutes from a wheel-well looks down their noses at American blacks. Here's an old trick that some employers used in order to evade problems as regards racism & things as such...".

I qualified that statement & went on to discuss other non-American ethnics of color & made the following remark..."I often found it hilarious that individuals 2 weeks removed from an outhouse or a hut, could come here to our NATIVE land, then proceed to look down their noses at us, can barely speak the language but are fully fluent as regards calling folks 'niggers'".

Exactly where did I single out Africans specifically within the framing of that sentence?

Africans are not the only peoples whom have ever lived in huts & I doubt that most Africans or other ethnics come here directly from a hut. I know of many who have & they'll show you pictures & ironically, most of them are NOT Africans. There are other countries where poverty exists to that degree, as well. I was saying that more for effect. Other than my opening line which was in direct response to the quote of Nevertoolate, when he spoke of the response of an African to Maya Angelou. My response to that is that that individual could likely afford to feel that way, as the American Black is the one whom it appears as though not only do many other people of colors express a low regard for, but it also appears as though they've been conditioned to think the worst of us.

And Africans certainly don't corner the market on that, as the American Black has been called all sorts of things in various languages, by people of various ethnicities, even by non-Americans Blacks whom were/are just as dark as we are.

Either way, my focus wasn't specifically on Africans, I clearly stated that MANY ethnics of color look down their noses at American Blacks. And lest anyone try to blame music or videos, for MANY, these attitudes have been firmly set in place decades ago. Or is anyone here really going to try to tell me that they haven't heard the same charges & insults that I've heard hurled at the American Black from other non-American blacks?

juicefree20
08-18-2010, 03:41 PM
Splanky:

I'm not sure if you read exactly what I wrote, but I have no need to be educated about anything. I thought that we were having a conversation based upon the topic & the various ways that it's manifested itself, often in some subtle ways, all of which I find to be insidious.

As I said, had I made those statements about EVERY & ALL Africans or anyone else, then your words would certainly apply. As it stands, except for that one instance, I clearly said MANY, which is no indicator as to whether the percentage of offenders were high or low. Regardless of the percentage of people who feel about us & would express it, even 10 is too much as far as I'm concerned.

As far as me having "bad" experiences with Africans, let me clarify that those remarks of which I speak were not directed toward me personally. HOWEVER, if anyone feels so free as to say those kind of things to me about my OWN people (as I'm also an American Black), then it doesn't require a huge leap for me to conclude that perhaps I might've been included in their list of "others", had they not known me.

Let me ask you this, if you were gay & someone kept making disparaging remarks about gays, or if you were a woman & someone had the tendency to make disparaging remarks about women, how long would they be able to do such a thing & make those kind of statement before you began to think, "Well wait a minute...I'm (fill in the blank) too, they know that I'm (fill in the blank), yet they actually seem to harbor these negative feelings about who or what I am?

The point being that if they feel free enough to say things like that to me, an American Black about OTHER American Blacks, then truly, what do they REALLY think about me? A person doesn't have to talk bad about me before it annoys me, nor make me wary of their thought-process. And the oft-held-out qualifier "I'm not talking about you, you're not like them" just doesn't cut it for me.

And as far as American Blacks giving anyone reason to feel as they do, exactly how did it come to be that many people whom have never set foot on this soil, seem to arrive on these shores with that very mindset? Again, we can't blame music or videos, as this mentality has been present for decades, long before the first rap song, music video, hood movie or crack was created.

With that as the case, exactly how can it be that non-American Blacks whom were not really exposed to American Blacks, end up with so many negative stereotypes & mental depictions of us? Search your soul & think of the various disparaging things that you've ever heard expressed about the American Black by damn near every ethnic group whom arrives here & tell me that I'm overstating the case.

Should that prove to be the case, then it's not I who needs to be educated about a thing.

I've seen it & heard it from all sides of the fence & I would also agree that the biggest offenders can be & often are other American Blacks, which is a whole different story.

The question still remains, how can it be that just about everyone feels as though they can disrespect American Blacks, no matter what their particular station, or where they're from, even those whom have had little interaction with us?

So now that we've established that not EVERY, ALL or MOST Africans or any other ethnic group are within the majority of those possessing these negative thoughts toward American Blacks & that MOST or EVERY ethnic peoples DO NOT & have not resides in huts, exactly what is it that I need to educate myself about?

Context is everything.

juicefree20
08-18-2010, 03:51 PM
One last thought...

If these conditions didn't exist, then I couldn't & wouldn't talk about it, because when you look beneath the surface, more than 50 years of talking hasn't changed a thing fundamentally. If the lessons of the past were & had been truly taken to heart, then we wouldn't even be having this conversation, these many years later. And the truth is, that certain people, or rather POWERS have fully encouraged & fostered the divisions that exist between ALL peoples of color. And they've have created conditions in which discord could thrive.

The sad thing about all of this is that people are being played one against the other, in an end game that too many people caught up trying to secure their own place in the pecking order, don't seem to realize, or refuse to recognize is being played on them.

I believe that it's referred to as "Divide & Conquer" & sadly, it appears as though it's a game that far too many people are willing to play.

.

splanky
08-18-2010, 04:27 PM
Juice, I've read every post on this thread straight through even after I stopped responding including yours. It's not often that I've found myself disagreeing with you
in fact the only two other times that come to mind were over hip hop and funk but
this time and I'll only say this once:
You were wrong.
Peace...

common
08-18-2010, 05:41 PM
Common:

You & I go back a long ways & I love you like ice cream, but I'm a bit puzzled at your response. I'm sorry if my remarks hurt your feelings because at no time did I say that ALL Africans behaved in that way & I don't know why you would take remarks that I made about some or many & put yourself in that number. Did I somehow cloud my statement, because I thought that it was pretty straight-forward & I'm puzzled at the focus on the remarks that I made in regards to Africans.

"I don't know how it is where you live, but here in N.Y., the darkest of Africans think of American blacks as lowly niggers"...

Perhaps I should've prefaced that statement with the same qualifier that I gave other remarks of mine..."many". And I'm willing to stand by that statement, as being my experience, observations & even conversations which I've had with more than a few Africans. Now, had I said ALL Africans, I could understand there being a problem with me saying that. Had I said EVERY African, I could understand there being a problem. Had I even said MOST Africans, then I could certainly understand anyone have a problem with me making such a blanket statement. At all points, I offered the qualifier MANY. I'm sorry if my lack of including it as regards my opening statement led you to think that I was painting any or all Africans with the same broad brush.

As for the outhouse remark, that was not directed specifically at any specific ethnic group. I thought that was crystal-clear by the very quote of mine that you copied, which was..."To be more precise, MANY ETHNICS who've been here for even 5 minutes from a wheel-well looks down their noses at American blacks. Here's an old trick that some employers used in order to evade problems as regards racism & things as such...".

I qualified that statement & went on to discuss other non-American ethnics of color & made the following remark..."I often found it hilarious that individuals 2 weeks removed from an outhouse or a hut, could come here to our NATIVE land, then proceed to look down their noses at us, can barely speak the language but are fully fluent as regards calling folks 'niggers'".

Exactly where did I single out Africans specifically within the framing of that sentence?

Africans are not the only peoples whom have ever lived in huts & I doubt that most Africans or other ethnics come here directly from a hut. I know of many who have & they'll show you pictures & ironically, most of them are NOT Africans. There are other countries where poverty exists to that degree, as well. I was saying that more for effect. Other than my opening line which was in direct response to the quote of Nevertoolate, when he spoke of the response of an African to Maya Angelou. My response to that is that that individual could likely afford to feel that way, as the American Black is the one whom it appears as though not only do many other people of colors express a low regard for, but it also appears as though they've been conditioned to think the worst of us.

And Africans certainly don't corner the market on that, as the American Black has been called all sorts of things in various languages, by people of various ethnicities, even by non-Americans Blacks whom were/are just as dark as we are.

Either way, my focus wasn't specifically on Africans, I clearly stated that MANY ethnics of color look down their noses at American Blacks. And lest anyone try to blame music or videos, for MANY, these attitudes have been firmly set in place decades ago. Or is anyone here really going to try to tell me that they haven't heard the same charges & insults that I've heard hurled at the American Black from other non-American blacks?

Juice:
Love ya to pieces but I still stand by what I said in my comments. If we substituted ‘African Americans’ for ‘Africans or other ethnic groups’ in your post, then all hell would break out. I quoted your first post which is where I drew my comments from, not the second post. I didn’t respond to the second post, where you broaden your comments by adding ethnic groups. I still didn’t see the difference however my focus is Africans for the simple reason is whether we resent, dislike or hate Africans, we are descendants of that continent. To me, if I slap my mother, it’s like I’m slapping myself (bad analogy but you get my point). Whether you’re from the Caribbean, Latin America or America, we all are struggling to regain our humanity and independence. I honestly don’t see the difference among us EXCEPT the differences in culture.

Still, I feel as much as it bothers you about how African Americans are treated by other ethnic groups, you should know that it does bother them as well about the way they are treated and perceived when they come here.

The ‘many’ you speak of are only the ones you encountered, which I characterized as ‘some’. Those Africans, for example, don’t represent the majority. It’s like whites saying that ‘many ‘blacks commit crime’ or any other negative adjective that is attached to us. Then say, “ Well, we don’t mean ‘all’, we just mean ‘many’ “ . Yeah, there are some African Americans that commit crime but can we say really say ‘many’? There’s a minority that do commit crime, but to me, saying ‘many’ is leaning more towards the majority and that’s not right.

I, for one, don’t tolerate the fact people put us down for whatever reason and I certainly am quick to address friends, relatives or anyone else who says negative or ask stupid questions like ‘what’s wrong with African Americans and why they can’t get ahead’? But I educate them on the deal and they come away (I hope!) with a better understanding and respect. My undergraduate professor from Jamaica, told us in class that those who migrated here, have no right to put down or think themselves above African Americans because they have struggled too hard to make America better for others to enjoy. She was absolutely right in her assessment.

However, let’s not negate the point that those who migrate from Africa or the Caribbean suffer discrimination, sometimes at the hands of African Americans. Some of them DON’T’ have positive experiences with African Americans based not only their own countrymen’s experience but on their own as well. Africans are not the only perpetrators of ignorance and misinformation. All of this has a lot to do with doctrine of racism and colonialism. There is no way around it.

As you say that negative perceptions of African Americans or other ethnic groups (I can’t speak on that because my encounters have also have been negative/positive), media plays a big part and yes, today’s mass entertainment plays an even bigger part in how African Americans are perceived in the world. Talking about decades ago, it still goes back to how one is treated in other man’s country. As I stated before, my mom migrated here decades ago, and she didn’t come here with those perceptions you speak of and her aunt, who brought here, never talked about things like that. It all boils down to where they are they getting these perceptions from?

Poor treatment towards each other, as I’ve stated and as you wrote, is not right. So what can do to make better besides complain how horrible we talk or treat each other? As you said yourself it is divide and conquer but you still pointed out how the ‘many’ Africans (or other ethnic groups) behave badly towards African Americans. You basically said that people are conditioned to feel that way about African Americans but aren’t African Americans ‘conditioned’ as well to view Africans or other ethnic groups in disdainful light?

There’s more I’d like to say but I've pretty much derailed the whole thread, which wasn’t the intent.

nevertoolate
08-19-2010, 10:24 PM
I have to say my experience with Africans have been very positive...I lived with
West African roomates in college for about 2 years..So I was around Africans 24-7 at
one point..They are coming from a whole different mindset all together about social
relationships, how to behave, male-female relationships, inter-ethnic relationships...

Now some of them do have attitudes and most of it at its core is "my ethnic group(insert
tribe) is better than everyone else..They have attitudes toward each other based on
country,tribe,region...(every non-Nigerian African had a comment or stereotype about
"dem Nigerians")...

It seems when I meet one with an attitude...I start talking about his country and the attitude drops and "wow you know about my country!!"...They are a very proud and
confident people..at least the ones I met..

I like them and I seem to get along very well with them..eventhough I may not agree with everything they say or do...

I do know the group takes precedence over the individual among them..if you meet one who is a friend of your friend he AUTOMATICALLY becomes your friend and things like if
10 people are at a table and 1 is still eating...the 9 will wait for that one to finish..or
someone will wait for that 1 to finish eating ...he will not leave alone..

It was a VERY educational experience being among them..

bob_olhsson
08-21-2010, 05:19 PM
Just to add to what Juice said, i think it's important to understand that racism has always been a tactic of class warfare. Class warfare seeks to get people to accept the idea that their identity is limited to some combination of "X" or "Y" and "not X" or "not Y." The problem with the word is the implications and the message of limited identity that it sends.

It's not "OK" to identify with something that has always been utter fiction that was used to limit people's sense of identity. On a certain level that requires buying into that fiction in order to consider yourself as "one of them" or not "one of them." To this day the concept is being used to manipulate Americans of all races.

African Americans have a colossally rich international culture to identify with yet most black kids I meet are utterly unaware of it. I'm outraged that as a white I've only learned about a lot of this since moving to Nashville when I was more than 50 years old and I've had far more contact with the black community than most whites. That black kids often don't know much about their own heritage other than in terms of social class limits as defined by the rich elite of the 1920s is criminal racism.

If we are to make progress, we really don't need black or white children hearing that word or believing it's OK for anybody to use it. Hearing comedians say it for shock value got old after just a few years. Now, decades later, it has become a cliché that isn't shocking and isn't funny. It needs to go away other than as a historical footnote.

Hopefully at least some of what I've said makes sense.