SD prented producer Last Time I Saw Him. Diana Ross

[daviddh]

this has never been a favorite of mine and ,really not until the expanded release did I ever really listen to it. there were a few tracks I liked such as the title cut, I Heard A Love Song, Stone Liberty but the rest I always thought was a mess. big disappointment after TMITM.
what songs would you pick?
Last Time I Saw Him
Let Me Be The One
I Wanna Go Back There Again
I Heard A Love Song But You Never Made A Sound
Love Me
Stone Liberty
What Are You Doing The Rest Of Your Life
Wish I Knew
Kewpie Doll
The Interim
Love's Lines ,Angles and Rhymes
Were Always saying Goodbye

[reese]

I think there are some good songs on the LAST TIME I SAW HIM album. They just don't hang together as well as the TOUCH ME album, IMO. I was just listening to it last week and I really like Side 1.

From the unreleased LTISH-period material, I like:

Let Me Be the One
I Wanna Go Back There Again
Why Play Games
Get It All Together
I'll Be Here [[When You Get Home)

[sup_fan]

the released album is a bit of a patchwork. if i was producer, i'd have used:

Last Time I Saw Him [[unedited version to help differentiate from single release)
Get it all together
Why play games
Since i don't have you
no One's gonna be a fool forever

i'll be here [[when you get home)
love me
I heard a love song
stone liberty
you

or it might have been an interesting concept to have it sort of touch on a C&W feel.

Last Time I Saw Him [[unedited version to help differentiate from single release)
Get it all together
Why play games
Since i don't have you
i don't care where the money is
no One's gonna be a fool forever

sorry doesn't make it right
i'll be here [[when you get home)
love me
I heard a love song
behind closed doors
you

[RanRan79]

I'm of the same mindset as Reese. There are definitely some good songs on the album, but it's not a good mix of tracks. My version would've looked like this:

lTISH
I'll Be Here When You Get Home
Why Play Games
Sleepin
Get It All Together
Let Me Be the One
When Will I Come Home to You
I Heard a Love Song
Stone Liberty
Behind Closed Doors

And even then I don't think the album would've popped enough to be a legit hit, just a solid album. But coming off of the great TMITM and Diana/Marvin albums, LTISH with any mix of tracks from the initial sessions would always pale in comparison to what came before it. The album should've been shelved, the title cut released as a stand alone single, and the team should've gone back to the drawing board and given more thought into how to follow up the success of the previous two albums. LTISH wasn't cutting it. Bob Gaudio's contributions come across to me as the most progressive of the songs, so perhaps serious consideration should've been given to him doing the whole album. Most of the other songs sound like they could've easily fit on the debut album or Everything Is Everything, which sounds to me like a regression of sound when forging ahead should've been the priority.

[sup_fan]

given the strength of Touch Me, there was no reason to rush into the studio to do more work to come up with another single to release. they could have easily done a follow up from the TMITM lp. 5/73 was Touch and then late fall they could have used the follow up single. Then in 74 they could have done the duets. that way it would have been a thoughtfully and intelligently planned release schedule. each would have been allow to have its own focus and time in the spotlight

then in late 74 or early 75 Last Time could have been released. i really like the song - one i play often. it's campy but fun. i think they should have left a bit more of the ending on the single. on the extended version with the extra verse, the band really cuts loose at the end and it adds a lot of character to the song. Neither Sleepin and Sorry should have been singles. Perhaps No One's Gonna Be A Fool would have been an solid follow up.

[RanRan79]

given the strength of Touch Me, there was no reason to rush into the studio to do more work to come up with another single to release. they could have easily done a follow up from the TMITM lp. 5/73 was Touch and then late fall they could have used the follow up single. Then in 74 they could have done the duets. that way it would have been a thoughtfully and intelligently planned release schedule. each would have been allow to have its own focus and time in the spotlight

then in late 74 or early 75 Last Time could have been released. i really like the song - one i play often. it's campy but fun. i think they should have left a bit more of the ending on the single. on the extended version with the extra verse, the band really cuts loose at the end and it adds a lot of character to the song. Neither Sleepin and Sorry should have been singles. Perhaps No One's Gonna Be A Fool would have been an solid follow up.

I agree with all you've said, with one exception. I think the problem with the Touch Me album is that there really is only one easy single in the set. Many of us have already thrown out which songs we feel could've potentially been released as a single after "Morning" [[my vote was for "All of My Life" since it was released as a single overseas and was rather successful in the UK) but I don't think anyone ventured the opinion that there was a guaranteed hit on the album other than the title cut. I think we SDers hit the same problem the label hit: there really wasn't much viable options for release after the big hit. All of those great songs work together for the mood of the lp, but not necessarily by itself. Now had "Kewpie Doll" made the set, my vote would've been for that as the followup single. I think it would've been a hit. But without a viable second single, swinging into Diana and Marvin makes sense to me, except that album would've been waaaayyyy bigger had the two singers done some promotion together. There is no way you're in "control" of the careers of Diana Ross and Marvin Gaye, have them record an album, release said album and a number of singles and not have them go on television together. Dumb, dumb, dumb decision. Their studio clash had extenuating circumstances for them both. No way do you not get them on TV.

LTISH album completely reworked and released in 74 makes a lot more sense. "Why Play Games" completed [[I got the impression it was unfinished) and remixed might have proved the big hit. 1975 rolls around and Diana not only does the Mahogany movie but also records leads to the entire Mahogany album. Another wasted opportunity.

[daviddh]

I agree with you in regards to holding LAST TIME back to make a better album.
I also would have released All Of My Life as a single and Kewpie Doll. love the duet with Smokey.
how did this get over looked? why was Blue left in the can for 30 years?
I also totally agree with the promo of Marvin and Diana. not sure who or why. none of it made sense to me some bad calls imo.

[RanRan79]

I agree with you in regards to holding LAST TIME back to make a better album.
I also would have released All Of My Life as a single and Kewpie Doll. love the duet with Smokey.
how did this get over looked? why was Blue left in the can for 30 years?
I also totally agree with the promo of Marvin and Diana. not sure who or why. none of it made sense to me some bad calls imo.

I wonder if "Kewpie Doll" was intended for a Smokey produced Diana album and that's why it didn't make the TMITM album. Something should have been done with it. Admittedly the production on "Kewpie" sounds more top notch than what Smokey did with the Floy Joy set. I don't know why a Smokey produced album didn't become the next lp after TMITM. That made better sense than LTISH.

As for Blue, as great of an album as the released version is that we finally got, I think it was too much of a continuation of Lady Sings. After the explosion that was Lady, Motown had to decide who Diana Ross, vocalist, was going to be. Blue's release would've suggested that she was going into jazz and blues, and surely she would have continued to release great and successful albums in that vein, but she would never have had another hit single. To The Baby was Diana in love with motherhood and IMO it was clouding her judgement. While the album would've turned out great, I don't believe the average person would've wanted an album of Diana singing songs about motherhood and children. TMITM ultimately ended up being the compromise to it all. We get Diana continuing some of the jazzy direction, while also including songs that spoke to where she was at in her life at the time, and some good pop/R&B thrown in for good measure. So as good as Blue is, I think it was a good idea shelving it, same as To the Baby.

[TomatoTom123]

I wonder if "Kewpie Doll" was intended for a Smokey produced Diana album and that's why it didn't make the TMITM album. Something should have been done with it. Admittedly the production on "Kewpie" sounds more top notch than what Smokey did with the Floy Joy set. I don't know why a Smokey produced album didn't become the next lp after TMITM. That made better sense than LTISH.

I don't think Smokey did much producing for other Motown acts after Floy Joy. I think he even semi-retired for a bit, but then came out of it to go into a solo career. He was also Motown VP as I recall. Maybe that's why a Smokey Diana LP never materialised. :)

I need to check out "Kewpie Doll" as well.

[reese]

I wonder if "Kewpie Doll" was intended for a Smokey produced Diana album and that's why it didn't make the TMITM album. Something should have been done with it. Admittedly the production on "Kewpie" sounds more top notch than what Smokey did with the Floy Joy set. I don't know why a Smokey produced album didn't become the next lp after TMITM. That made better sense than LTISH.

As for Blue, as great of an album as the released version is that we finally got, I think it was too much of a continuation of Lady Sings. After the explosion that was Lady, Motown had to decide who Diana Ross, vocalist, was going to be. Blue's release would've suggested that she was going into jazz and blues, and surely she would have continued to release great and successful albums in that vein, but she would never have had another hit single. To The Baby was Diana in love with motherhood and IMO it was clouding her judgement. While the album would've turned out great, I don't believe the average person would've wanted an album of Diana singing songs about motherhood and children. TMITM ultimately ended up being the compromise to it all. We get Diana continuing some of the jazzy direction, while also including songs that spoke to where she was at in her life at the time, and some good pop/R&B thrown in for good measure. So as good as Blue is, I think it was a good idea shelving it, same as To the Baby.

In J. Randy Taborrelli's book on Motown, he mentioned that in 1973 Smokey was supposed to be producing an album for Diana entitled SATISFACTION, with the first single being WHATEVER MAKES YOU HAPPY. Considering how good KEWPIE DOLL turned out, it probably would have been a great album.

Re TO THE BABY, it might have been too much for the public to absorb at once. But some of the tracks, like GOT TO BE THERE and THE FIRST TIME EVER I SAW YOUR FACE contain some of Diana's best vocals. They should have put those out on the LAST TIME I SAW HIM or DIANA ROSS [[1976) albums.

[daviddh]

I do understand the importance of releasing TMITM after Lady, but I don't think Blue should have been shelved completely,especially since Diana has continued to see these songs in her live shows . I would have released Blue in late 74 or 75 as, we got nothing until the Mahogany soundtrack. to long for her to be off the charts but typical of Motown to give everything at once and then nothing! seems Motown had a bad habit of doing this. the EIE lp could have been held back and released in late 71 -or 72.

[sup_fan]

i think To The Baby could have worked as a release. the recordings are quite strong throughout and i never thought the baby theme was too overdone with it. it would have been a strong artistic message and quite unique

[Ollie9]

i think To The Baby could have worked as a release. the recordings are quite strong throughout and i never thought the baby theme was too overdone with it. it would have been a strong artistic message and quite unique

I agree that "To The Baby" would have artistically been a far stronger, more memorable release then the hodge podge that makes up LTISH. "Love Me" and "Kewpie Doll" could have been added to the album with a late 74 release date set.
I was a tiny bit to young to remember when those early 70's albums were actually released but would be interested to learn from fans who do remember if it seemed at the time there there was a D.R product overload out there or not really?.

[reese]

I agree that "To The Baby" would have artistically been a far stronger, more memorable release then the hodge podge that makes up LTISH. "Love Me" and "Kewpie Doll" could have been added to the album with a late 74 release date set.
I was a tiny bit to young to remember when those early 70's albums were actually released but would be interested to learn from fans who do remember if it seemed at the time there there was a D.R product overload out there or not really?.

I remember when these albums were released. But I was a kid and not familiar with release schedules, so I don't think any of it would have registered as overload with me. For the most part, I only knew there was a new album if there was an ad in JET or EBONY. And aside from the major hits, I didn't hear Diana on the radio all that often. In addition, even if I wanted to buy them, my monthly allowance limited my purchasing mostly to the cut out bins.

[Ollie9]

I remember when these albums were released. But I was a kid and not familiar with release schedules, so I don't think any of it would have registered as overload with me. For the most part, I only knew there was a new album if there was an ad in JET or EBONY. And aside from the major hits, I didn't hear Diana on the radio all that often. In addition, even I wanted to buy them, my monthly allowance limited my purchasing mostly to the cut out bins.

All those early 70's albums were already out there when i was a kid, but like you i had to wait until i had saved enough pocket money before i could buy any. I can still remember the rush of adrnaline and the heady smell of the vinyl as i sifted through Diana albums trying to decide on what would be my next purchase.

[reese]

All those early 70's albums were already out there when i was a kid, but like you i had to wait until i had saved enough pocket money before i could buy any. I can still remember the rush of adrnaline and the heady smell of the vinyl as i sifted through Diana albums trying to decide on what would be my next purchase.

I know the feeling. I spent many a Saturday going through the cut out bins at Woolworth's and Bradlees. They usually sold cut outs for $1.99. That's how I bought most of the late 60s Supremes albums.

I can still remember seeing the LAST TIME I SAW HIM album in the cut out bin at Bradlees. I went to purchase it and found I didn't even have the $1.99. The cashier must have felt sorry for me because she said "Take it and get out of here!" and let me have it for less anyway.

[Ollie9]

I know the feeling. I spent many a Saturday going through the cut out bins at Woolworth's and Bradlees. They usually sold cut outs for $1.99. That's how I bought most of the late 60s Supremes albums.

I can still remember seeing the LAST TIME I SAW HIM album in the cut out bin at Bradlees. I went to purchase it and found I didn't even have the $1.99. The cashier must have felt sorry for me because she said "Take it and get out of here!" and let me have it for less anyway.

Thats a cute story. I seem to remember getting wry smiles from the cashier when i handed over my bundles of loose change to pay for the record.
I reside in the uk reece so am not sure what a cut out bin is?. Is it a sort of reduced bargain bin.

[reese]

Thats a cute story. I seem to remember getting wry smiles from the cashier when i handed over my bundles of loose change to pay for the record.
I reside in the uk reece so am not sure what a cut out bin is?. Is it a sort of reduced bargain bin.

Yes. The album themselves often had a corner cut out of the cover or holes.

[alanbill1074]

LTISH was one of my favourites, and I wouldn’t change a thing on it. It was more eclectic in material than TMITM, which in my opinion is WAY overrated and a bit of a snooze fest.

I think LTISH suffered a bit from the lack of any obvious singles. Love Me was a minor UK hit, perhaps Stone Liberty might have done something, but Sleepin’ Was a terrible single choice for the USA.

Loved the artwork as well.

[sup_fan]

I agree that the album as-is is enjoyable. But given the unreleased content and also some material that popped up on later albums I think the song selections could have been altered a bit to make it stronger. And the removed songs would have fit better on other set, allowing them to shine more

[sup_fan]

Also I love the front cover art but feel that they went cheap w the back. Just using the same pic is smaller format doesn’t do much. Surely there were other shots from this session they could have used

[reese]

Also I love the front cover art but feel that they went cheap w the back. Just using the same pic is smaller format doesn’t do much. Surely there were other shots from this session they could have used

I thought the same. I also think that picture was a couple of years old. It was taken by Harry Langdon and very much has the look of his earlier photos with her, the dramatic eyes and hoop earrings.

[daviddh]

Didn't know the cover art was an actual photo. Surprised they didn't use others in the expanded edition. Maybe they did have to go n check

[vgalindo]

I love the album cover. One of my favorites.

[JohnnyB]

I love the album cover. One if my favorites.

I was pleasantly surprised to see alternate poses from the LTISH photo session just recently on YouTube during Diana’s introduction when she received the Billboard entertainer of the century award. Puzzling that the photos haven’t surfaced elsewhere, to my knowledge...

[TomatoTom123]

I bloody love "Last Time I Saw Him" even though I probably shouldn't 'cause it's proper cringy LOL. It's fun and enjoyable, and sounds like a hit to me. I remember checking out the rest of the LP [[and expanded edition tracks) and thinking it was all pretty good stuff, but don't remember hearing another hit really. "No One's Gonna Be A Fool Forever" came closest I think. :)

[greg jones]

Ollie 9
A cut out bin was when the album had been discontinued. The record companies gave the record stores like 60 days notice of discontinue so that they could return them for credit towards purchasing new releases. Once the record company had all the returned, they would either drill a hole in the corner or cut the corner off, then give them to rack jobbers to sell in cut out bins for way discounted prices to at least get some money back on the unsold items. The drill marks and cut corners were to identify that the album could not be returned for full credit.
I bought many items that I couldn't afford at full price when they out in the cut out bins as they were still new and not used items.

[milven]

This talk about cutouts reminds me of the famous industry story of "shipped gold, returned platinumn".

I remember Johnny Carson being presented a gold record on the TONIGHT SHOW. I thought, "really? That LP is such a stiff. No one is buying it. The newly independant Casablanca sent it out to retailers and billed it, but they also sent out a bunch of free copies to the retailers to help them promote it and sell it at a cheaper price.

Nothing sold, and record stores sent back the billed and free copies which eventually all wound up in store's cut out bins at a cheap price.

From Wikopedia"

The now-independent Casablanca Records was suddenly put in a tenuous financial situation as it still had yet to score a major hit album and no longer had the backing of Warner Bros. Casablanca was banking on the success of an upcoming album it was planning: a two-record set of audio highlights from television's The Tonight Show Starring Johnny Carson. The album was entitled Here's Johnny: Magic Moments from The Tonight Show and was released in November 1974. Although the album was certified gold by the RIAA for shipments to stores of over 500,000 copies, the album did not sell well, and returns from retailers of unsold copies were high. Even the promotional copies were returned, initiating the joke that "it shipped gold and went back to the label platinum". Casablanca had realized that even though The Tonight Show Starring Johnny Carson was immensely popular, the show did not carry over well to recordings.

http://vinylminerecords.com/wp-content/uploads/imported/3/Johnny-Carson-Heres-Johnny-Magic-Moments-From-The-Tonight-Show-2LP-VGNM-200821683153.jpg