Mary Wilson: June 13, 1977 - August 27, 1979

[marybrewster]

Does anyone know what type of itinerary Mary Wilson kept between the date listed above? June 12th, 1977 would have been her final performance with the Supremes; August 28th, 1979 would have been her solo debut. Other than the tour with Cindy and Debbie Sharpe, did Mary perform at any other time in those two years?

[luke]

Didn’t she speak about going to Europe in her book or was that after her solo debut?

[johnny_raven]

Both are from 1978

London, England
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Melbourne, Australia
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[Roberta75]

That top poster was the start of Marys trouble with Kaaren Ragland and the reason Kaaren won her lawsuit which was costly and real unfair and unfoprtunate for Mary.

[Ozmo]

Mary, along with Karen Jackson and Kaaren Ragland also toured Australia in 1978 and I recall seeing them perform in Sydney around June of that year.

[midnightman]

As brought up, she was booking shows with the two Karens overseas [[since the legal wrangling in the U.S. meant they couldn't do shows in their native country).

[milven]

As brought up, she was booking shows with the two Karens overseas [[since the legal wrangling in the U.S. meant they couldn't do shows in their native country).

This segment of her career remains confusing to me. If she left the Supremes to go solo, why was she using the Supremes name and in some places being billed as Mary Wilson and the Supremes, thus Kaaren being billed as a Supreme?

If she was a soloist, what legal troubles would there be if she booked herself as a soloist in the states?

If the group had bookings overseas after she left the group, why wouldn't Motown, who owned the name, be responsible and have Mary sign over her Supremes Inc management to Motown, since she no longer wanted to be part of the group? Then Motown would send their reformated Supremes to those bookings.

It seems to me that Mary wanted to leave the group but either had second thoughts after the break or wanted to keep the door open in case she failed.

My opinion is that she held on to the Supremes name and billing too long and it made it difficult for her to identify herself as Mary Wilson.

Nevertheless, she is still performing all these years later, and has carved out a nice niche in the industry for herself doing Supremes oldies shows, inimate cabaret shows, theater, books, tours with her Supremes gowns and is a spokesman in interviews for the Supremes.

[RanRan79]

Nevertheless, she is still performing all these years later, and has carved out a nice niche in the industry for herself doing Supremes oldies shows, inimate cabaret shows, theater, books, tours with her Supremes gowns and is a spokesman in interviews for the Supremes.

That's the brilliance of Mary Wilson. Sitting one's biases aside, the fact is that Mary Wilson is famous for being 1/3 of the world's most successful female group, and her remembered contribution in said group is as a background singer. So how many "background singers" of Mary's era can claim all of her accomplishments in the public eye? I can't think of one, but if anyone else can, please feel free to educate me. I am one of the ones very critical of Mary's decisions in the decades- particularly the first decade- after leaving the Supremes, and I stand by my critiques, but to not point out how resilient this Supreme has been, that would be a huge disrespect on my part. And the lady has been kicked around. Not to knock Florence [[my absolute favorite Supreme) but when she left the group and hit stumbling blocks, she found it difficult to overcome them [[whatever the reasons). Mary hit her stumbling blocks and immediately figured out a way to keep moving on without becoming stagnant in her disappointments. She often has figured out how to turn her lemons into lemonade, and I so very much respect her for that. Now admittedly there are times when I feel like she goes out of her way to turn a lemon into lemonade for publicity's sake [[RTL), but she has to be admired for insisting that she will not go to the land where background singers go to die. There are Supremes whose voices I love much more than Mary's. But she's the Supreme in my book and that's an opinion I can't ever see changing.

[sup_fan]

Mary had established Supremes Inc to handle much of the group's affairs. I don't know all of the details of what exactly was handled by that organization versus Motown. After J and L left, i think everyone here agrees that Motown was probably assuming the Supremes would disband and was fine with that. Mary hired C and S and took over the control of the group. My assumption is that during this period she/her corp began handling the group's tours and itinerary.

So if there was a contract with venues and The Supremes for dates post June 77, that contact would have probably been with Mary's corporation. Not Motown inc. So no, it wouldn't be Motown's responsibility

also we don't know who booked those dates and when. general belief is that Pedro was not a highly organized manager and so very possible that he signed more dates, not paying attention to when the Farewell was scheduled. or maybe he booked them hoping to switch it to a Mary Wilson solo debut. or maybe it was money. there wasn't a huge amount of revenue coming to the group in 76 and 77. sales of records were minimal at best and so the majority of income was coming from live performances. if they were living high on the hog, it wouldn't have taken long for them to feel the pinch of lack of income. and so maybe quick dates were arranged.

[jim aka jtigre99]

After the Supremes disbanded, Mary Wilson was the least known of the originals as she has said herself. There was Florence, who passed away and Diana the big star with her, the background singer. Many people also confused her name with another Motown star, Mary Wells. I give her so much credit for being strong in an industry that uses you and discards you. Once they had disbanded, the only way for her to get tours were to promote her connection to the Supremes. As The Supremes' Mary Wilson, she was booked into venues. That is why when Jean and Lynda wanted to go to another label and didn't care about the name, Mary was wise to know the connection was important to her career. It is also why she may have been taken aback after 2/3 of the Former Ladies of the Supremes used the name when they were glad to discard it a decade prior. Motown was dogging her tours all of the time until they signed her for a solo deal. Motown was bleeding her to death financially on top of trying to stop her career and tours, she even said they told some promoters that she was not the real Mary Wilson. I personally love her voice and find her to be quite an accomplished performer. She may have made some bad decisions with her business, at times, but her ability to still be out there performing is beyond admirable. I think the former ladies of the Supremes used their connection to the group after seeing it allowed Mary to continue on. Mary was also pregnant when she left the group and right before she released her album in 1979. I would say sandwiched in between having 2 children, all of the problems with Motown and the like, she did very well still performing overseas. I think she stated she even sold out the Palladium to wonderful reviews during this time. I still wonder had she released a second album with those songs by Gus Dudgeon and had Motown been wise to be behind her, where she would be now-probably even more successful.

[RanRan79]

the only way for her to get tours were to promote her connection to the Supremes. As The Supremes' Mary Wilson, she was booked into venues. I personally love her voice and find her to be quite an accomplished performer.

This is one of my criticisms. She fell back on the name Supremes instead of forging her own way as just Mary Wilson. Yeah, most people don't know the name without "Supremes" attached to it, but no one knew who Phyllis Hyman was or Roberta Flack or Rick James or Teena Marie until they made a name for themselves. Mary, IMO, never seriously tried to make a name for herself. It was always rely on the Supremes name, and I've always felt that it was because she had a certain amount fear that she couldn't make it on her own. But she did have a lovely voice and definitely had what it took to make it on her own had she just believed in herself a bit more, IMO.


but her ability to still be out there performing is beyond admirable.

Not just performing but writing books, the dress tours, political appointments and getting behind legislation. The woman keeps busy and I love it.


I still wonder had she released a second album with those songs by Gus Dudgeon and had Motown been wise to be behind her, where she would be now-probably even more successful.

Absolutely. I think the GD tracks were not only more Mary's lane than the debut album but were very contemporary of the times. No doubt in my mind that she had a hit on her hands had the project been completed.

[sup_fan]

mary [[like most singers) had a pretty narrow window of time to "make it." once a singer is into their later 30s or 40s, the odds of them becoming a new pop sensation are low. the pop industry is driven more by youth and they want artists their own age. mary was 33 when she left the supremes.

i think the problem is she had essentially 0 track record in the US by that time. sure she'd been leading the group since 73 but there were no massive hits, no real general public interest. nothing for her to take to another label and say "look at what i did and now let's see what i can do for you." Add to that her contralto voice and singing abilities and there's some understanding as to why she was never signed to a major label. yes there were stories of how she was "this close" to signing with Neil Boggart or another label. but it never happened.

perhaps things would have been different if she went solo in late 73. at least she was just a little over a year since her last decent hit [[Floy Joy in early 72).

also maybe she should have done more to venture into other areas of the entertainment industry. a cabaret singer focusing on jazz, theater work, broadway, etc. I know she eventually did some of this but it might have been wise to have an honest but brutal discussion to say "look mary - you're talented and beautiful but odds are you're never going to be a major solo pop singer. so let's look at other options." Kind of like the dean of the music conservatory telling a violin student they're probably not going to be a touring world-class violinist playing with the top symphonies of the world. but hey, there's a huge industry in studio orchestras and teaching so let's see about those.

[RanRan79]

She could've pulled it off had she gone for it. There's no evidence that Mary chased record deals. As I said in another thread, I go through my collection and there's all these names of folks who seemed to have gotten record deals and released at least one album with not a whole lot to show for it before or since. I fail to see why Mary would be any different. And keeping it all the way real but there are some voices that did a lot more than Mary did with half the talent, so I don't think that was an issue either. The fact that we didn't get an album from Mary for like seven years after Dreamgirl exploded says to me she wasn't trying hard enough.

[midnightman]

I'm thinking Pedro and Mary booking the group's tours past the date where Mary made her exit on June 12 was a reason why Mary's solo career came to a halt until her and Motown worked the situation out. Mary wasn't in control of the Supremes, Motown was.

Luckily for Mary, she's learned how to handle business better and became a music rights advocate.

[marv2]

Does anyone know what type of itinerary Mary Wilson kept between the date listed above? June 12th, 1977 would have been her final performance with the Supremes; August 28th, 1979 would have been her solo debut. Other than the tour with Cindy and Debbie Sharpe, did Mary perform at any other time in those two years?

Yeah her itinerary was breast feeding, burping, changing diapers, bathing, feeding, holding and calming, doctor visits and long nights. Repeat the cycle daily.....! With all this, she still found time to tour the U.K. in 1978!

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[marybrewster]

This segment of her career remains confusing to me. If she left the Supremes to go solo, why was she using the Supremes name and in some places being billed as Mary Wilson and the Supremes, thus Kaaren being billed as a Supreme?

If she was a soloist, what legal troubles would there be if she booked herself as a soloist in the states?

If the group had bookings overseas after she left the group, why wouldn't Motown, who owned the name, be responsible and have Mary sign over her Supremes Inc management to Motown, since she no longer wanted to be part of the group? Then Motown would send their reformated Supremes to those bookings.

It seems to me that Mary wanted to leave the group but either had second thoughts after the break or wanted to keep the door open in case she failed.

My opinion is that she held on to the Supremes name and billing too long and it made it difficult for her to identify herself as Mary Wilson.

Nevertheless, she is still performing all these years later, and has carved out a nice niche in the industry for herself doing Supremes oldies shows, inimate cabaret shows, theater, books, tours with her Supremes gowns and is a spokesman in interviews for the Supremes.

Thank you milven; this is what I was trying to get at:

If Mary Wilson left the Supremes in 1977 to start a solo career, she was doing in 1978 what she had been doing for the last 2 to 3 years; wearing the same gowns, singing the same songs, only difference with two different faces beside her. What was the rush to leave? Was it more about leaving Scherrie and Susaye than leaving the group as a whole?

Does anyone know what a set list from this time period was? I can only assume basically a Supremes show; perhaps with a few more "solos" and Mary taking the lead on everything else. "Red Hot" wouldn't come out for another year, so she wasn't doing that or any of her solo LP material.

[marybrewster]

She could've pulled it off had she gone for it. There's no evidence that Mary chased record deals. As I said in another thread, I go through my collection and there's all these names of folks who seemed to have gotten record deals and released at least one album with not a whole lot to show for it before or since. I fail to see why Mary would be any different. And keeping it all the way real but there are some voices that did a lot more than Mary did with half the talent, so I don't think that was an issue either. The fact that we didn't get an album from Mary for like seven years after Dreamgirl exploded says to me she wasn't trying hard enough.

Right? Estelle Bennett released a single after the Ronettes broke up. Nedra released a whole album. And then there's Darlene Love who released singles and albums after the Blossoms. So I don't know that I buy into a contract was that hard to get.

[marv2]

Right? Estelle Bennett released a single after the Ronettes broke up. Nedra released a while album. And then there's Darlene Love who released singles and albums after the Blossoms. So I don't know that I buy into a contract was that hard to get.

Mary was signed to Motown up to 1980. She had small children to deal with. The quest for a recording contract outside of Motown did not start in earnest until the 80s.

[sup_fan]

she was signed to Motown but the only interest motown had in her was as a member of the supremes. and that was minimal at best. apparently they had no interest in dealing with mary as a solo artist. so the question is why did she make the decision to go on her own around Dec 76 if she didn't have something arranged with motown? i would think she and pedro would have had discussions with Motown about the idea of her as a solo prior to this and be able to see if motown would allow or support this.

[marybrewster]

Motown gave Mary a solo contract so she'd drop her lawsuit against them. Plain and simple. They had no intention of making her any other star than what she had been in the Supremes. When they fulfilled their end of the bargain, she was shown the door.

She should have either went forward with the lawsuit and said screw the contract, or played nice in hopes of getting her sophomore album out. I think we all can agree those tracks had the most potential of anything she's ever recorded.

[marv2]

she was signed to Motown but the only interest motown had in her was as a member of the supremes. and that was minimal at best. apparently they had no interest in dealing with mary as a solo artist. so the question is why did she make the decision to go on her own around Dec 76 if she didn't have something arranged with motown? i would think she and pedro would have had discussions with Motown about the idea of her as a solo prior to this and be able to see if motown would allow or support this.

How do you know all of this about Motown's interest in Mary Wilson? I ask because it is so much different from what I knew at the time and now.

[Roberta75]

Yeah her itinerary was breast feeding, burping, changing diapers, bathing, feeding, holding and calming, doctor visits and long nights. Repeat the cycle daily.....! With all this, she still found time to tour the U.K. in 1978!

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Typed from the same Nannys fingers that burped and bathed and diapered and feed Mary Wilson's children. Marvy Poppins. LOLOLOLOLOLOL

[sup_fan]

How do you know all of this about Motown's interest in Mary Wilson? I ask because it is so much different from what I knew at the time and now.

i'll be the first to acknowledge that this is second-hand information. i personally have not spoken with mary, mike roshkind, berry or anyone else that was personally involved. i do think that some of the historians that have provided insight into this period are credible and so taking their interpretations of events along with mary's and sort of "mashing" them together is probably a relatively balance view of history.

if you're only listening to mary's side then that's probably a rather limited perspective on events.

also actions seem to speak louder than words here. by her own telling of the story, mary was not close to berry or other sr motown execs at this time, they'd done little to promote the Scherrie era of supremes content, there was angst between pedro and S and S, between pedro and motown. Mary herself states in her book that she believes, in hindsight, that motown offered her the solo contract just to get her to drop her lawsuit

all of this adds up, in my mind, to motown having little to no interest in developing her as a solo artist. if they had then many different things would have occurred

but again, i'm having to piece things together from multiple sources

if you have additional or different information, that you can cite to a specific and trustworthy source, i'm absolutely open to hearing it and revising my stance

please proceed

[marybrewster]

Typed from the same Nannys fingers that burped and bathed and diapered and feed Mary Wilson's children. Marvy Poppins. LOLOLOLOLOLOL

And like Mary was the only one raising kids and singing? Lol

[Roberta75]

And like Mary was the only one raising kids and singing? Lol

Mary Wilson was luckier than most marybrewster. At least she has a nanny- Motown historian and eyewitness to everything that happened to Mary and Diana and Cindy and Suzanne DePasse and Berry Gordy. We should all thank Nanny Marvy Poppins for sharing his eyewitness accounts with us.

[Bluebrock]

Mary Wilson was luckier than most marybrewster. At least she has a nanny- Motown historian and eyewitness to everything that happened to Mary and Diana and Cindy and Suzanne DePasse and Berry Gordy. We should all thank Nanny Marvy Poppins for sharing his eyewitness accounts with us.
Oh Roberta you are too much! Te he he.

[midnightman]

I imagine had Motown not given her a solo contract, the legal wrangling between Mary & Motown would've continued and it would've gotten uglier. Berry Gordy did not play when it came to his money.

[midnightman]

she was signed to Motown but the only interest motown had in her was as a member of the supremes. and that was minimal at best. apparently they had no interest in dealing with mary as a solo artist. so the question is why did she make the decision to go on her own around Dec 76 if she didn't have something arranged with motown? i would think she and pedro would have had discussions with Motown about the idea of her as a solo prior to this and be able to see if motown would allow or support this.

I sometimes wonder if it was even Mary's doing all the way. Pedro, like many husbands of pop stars that didn't know what they were doing, thought he could magically make Mary a star in the same way Tommy Chapman thought he could do with Florence. And these women basically was like "I'm leaving it in your hands". Didn't make for good times. Mary had to learn the hard way, especially when she went on TV saying Marvin Gaye was gonna produce her solo record.

Marvin was like:
https://media.giphy.com/media/M62A05WrNTdEA/giphy.gif

Pedro wasn't ish. Mary realized that after Pedro's plans backfired on her. He helped to put her in debt with Motown, to the point Motown had to basically say "look, if we give you one solo album, you can go if you want." And that's what happened.

[midnightman]

And like Mary was the only one raising kids and singing? Lol

Right. Like Cindy Birdsong and Diana Ross wasn't having babies and then returned to the stage to pay the bills.

https://media.giphy.com/media/QHlgGXCuDr3Wg/giphy.gif

[jobeterob]

It was at this stage that she and Pedro basically wrecked any chance of success that she had - and then she takes no name Supremes out on the road and they dog her for the rest of her life

But we go through this every month or two - I suspect just to rub Marv’s nose in her errors and lack of success

[jim aka jtigre99]

Motown had no interest in the Supremes after 1970, except to capitalize off of the name and generate money from whatever revenue the name would give them. They certainly did not want them to go ahead with Jean Terrell becoming a hit in the group. It would prove that the Supremes framework was the success and not Diana Ross. Ross certainly deserved everything that came her way but it was a somewhat a competition between the old lead singer and her old group as to who would be the star and in Motown's eyes there was no question. Mary started to sing co-leads and leads , as she was told she could not sing and began to doubt herself. I am sure Motown would have loved her to stop the group in 1973[[or even 1970). She did not make the best decisions but she has certainly proven herself to have learned from mistakes and is still out there singing. At least, she has a measured amount of success and does still perform and does a wonderful job at it. The errors of 1977-79 hurt her career but Motown was never interested in making Mary a success.

[marv2]

Motown had no interest in the Supremes after 1970, except to capitalize off of the name and generate money from whatever revenue the name would give them. They certainly did not want them to go ahead with Jean Terrell becoming a hit in the group. It would prove that the Supremes framework was the success and not Diana Ross. Ross certainly deserved everything that came her way but it was a somewhat a competition between the old lead singer and her old group as to who would be the star and in Motown's eyes there was no question. Mary started to sing co-leads and leads , as she was told she could not sing and began to doubt herself. I am sure Motown would have loved her to stop the group in 1973[[or even 1970). She did not make the best decisions but she has certainly proven herself to have learned from mistakes and is still out there singing. At least, she has a measured amount of success and does still perform and does a wonderful job at it. The errors of 1977-79 hurt her career but Motown was never interested in making Mary a success.

Great post Jim. Yep, Mary Wilson is out there singing for audiences around the World and THAT Motown is loonnngggg gone!

[jobeterob]

Why would Motown not just immediately dump the group in 1970 if they didn’t care and if Berry thought Mary couldn’t sing?

Why put full page ads for every single through to the ones in the High Energy album in Billboard Cashbox and Record World-ads that cost more than a thousand dollars each way back then?

Why not ban Diana from attending Mary’s opening as a solo act if they thought Mary was such a poor singer?

The truth is they supported the group while it had hits just like they supported the Marvelettes but when the hits stopped and the infighting and crazed husband dominates, Motown said Goodbye Good Riddance

[midnightman]

Motown did give the Supremes a lot of opportunities and between 1970 and 1972, they did alright considering the circumstances. 1973, I always say, was the beginning of the end of the Supremes.

Berry did think Mary could sing and perform very well but it was common knowledge that lots in Motown thought Mary didn't have what it took to be a solo star [[which I call BS on, I think she had potential, they just never looked into it and Mary was beset with self doubt that she could do anything without a group).

People would try to make a bad moment for the Supremes scandalous but what happened to contribute to the Supremes' downfall happens to most groups who stay around for a very long time. And ever since then, I've seen messier breakups of legendary R&B groups, be it Shalamar or En Vogue.

[Albator]

The errors of 1977-79 hurt her career but Motown was never interested in making Mary a success.
no interest or no trust in her capacity. They had a long experience with her.

[sup_fan]

Motown did give the Supremes a lot of opportunities and between 1970 and 1972, they did alright considering the circumstances. 1973, I always say, was the beginning of the end of the Supremes.

Berry did think Mary could sing and perform very well but it was common knowledge that lots in Motown thought Mary didn't have what it took to be a solo star [[which I call BS on, I think she had potential, they just never looked into it and Mary was beset with self doubt that she could do anything without a group).

People would try to make a bad moment for the Supremes scandalous but what happened to contribute to the Supremes' downfall happens to most groups who stay around for a very long time. And ever since then, I've seen messier breakups of legendary R&B groups, be it Shalamar or En Vogue.

i agree with you Midnight. motown had a lot of reasons to not immediately kill of the Sups:

1. there was still plenty of money to be made
2. huge public backlash if the girls had been canned just to enable Diana's solo stardom
3. when did C and M's contract actually expire? did their contracts end on 1/14/70? i'm doubting they did. so they also had contractual obligations

For a variety of reasons, the 70 Sups albums didn't really hit their mark. total shame because musically and artistically they're wonderful. I think part of the problem with the botched design and presentation for New Ways [[which we discussed a zillion times). that cooled some of the big excitement on the group just when they needed it most. had Stone Love [[the single) gone #1, which it could have with just a bit more push from motown and then the accompanying lp of same title charting strongly, DJs and the public would have still been there strong with the group

also the duets albums should have been consolidated and released as 1 lp.

by the time we got to Touch [[the album) and Nathan Jones, the excitement around the girls was fading. they did 1 live tv performance of NJ on the Tonight Show with a hideous backing band. they should have lip synced so that the amazing sound of the song was presented to the national audience. as it is, it's goofy sounding, weak. although their vocals are hot. just a poor, poor, rendition of a song

also there was heavy Motown competition for those all-valuable promotional dollars. The Temps were massive with Just My Imagination [[released Jan 71) and Sky's The Limit [[April 71), J5 where all over the charts with Mama's Pearl [[Jan 71), Never can say goodbye [[March 71) Maybe Tomorrow lp [[April 71) and Maybe Tomorrow single [[June 71), that fall Michael released Got To Be There [[Oct 71) so there was prep work in developing his solo content, Stevie hit with Where I'm coming from lp [[April 71) and If you really love me [[Aug 71). and Diana did her tv special [[March 71) and Surrender was released in July

[blackguy69]

They had just resigned in 69 so their contracts would expire in 73.

[RanRan79]

Right? Estelle Bennett released a single after the Ronettes broke up. Nedra released a whole album. And then there's Darlene Love who released singles and albums after the Blossoms. So I don't know that I buy into a contract was that hard to get.

Contracts are hard to get...just ask the countless amateurs over the decades who have tried but failed, for various reasons. But finding a contract when you've already been in the business makes the process a million times easier. Your examples of the Ronettes is right on. Mary had been in the music business for decades, and for most of it she wasn't a bottom dwelling celebrity either. Mary, apparently the most personable and outgoing of the original trio of Supremes, made countless friends and connections in the industry and yet it seems like none of it did her much- if any- good [[business wise) after she left the group. What labels did she audition for? How many demos did she record and shop around? I cannot be convinced that after Dreamgirl's success that there weren't labels who saw dollar signs in being able to promote Mary Wilson and her music. Hell even Cindy Birdsong had a damn recording contract in the 80s! LOL But Mary couldn't get one? Nobody wanted her? I'm trying so hard to break my bad habit of cussin but for this I have to say: BULLSHIT.

The one mystery is what the hell happened with Atlantic Records? No reputable source seems to have any real insight into what happened after Mary recorded the demos for the company. Perhaps they heard the demos and didn't like what they heard. But was that on Mary or the songs? And could anyone who signs Stacy Q and Julian Lennon decide that there's nothing Mary could do vocally? I think not. Lol

I don't recall her talking about Atlantic in her second book at all.

[RanRan79]

Motown did give the Supremes a lot of opportunities and between 1970 and 1972, they did alright considering the circumstances. 1973, I always say, was the beginning of the end of the Supremes.

Berry did think Mary could sing and perform very well but it was common knowledge that lots in Motown thought Mary didn't have what it took to be a solo star [[which I call BS on, I think she had potential, they just never looked into it and Mary was beset with self doubt that she could do anything without a group).

People would try to make a bad moment for the Supremes scandalous but what happened to contribute to the Supremes' downfall happens to most groups who stay around for a very long time. And ever since then, I've seen messier breakups of legendary R&B groups, be it Shalamar or En Vogue.

I pretty much agree with all of this.

[jobeterob]

I pretty much agree with all of this.

Also the bigger the group, the more fuss is made over every word they say or grimace they make; so in their time, the Supremes and Diana Ross caused the same ruckus Destinys Child and Beyoncé caused years later

[marybrewster]

Contracts are hard to get...just ask the countless amateurs over the decades who have tried but failed, for various reasons. But finding a contract when you've already been in the business makes the process a million times easier. Your examples of the Ronettes is right on. Mary had been in the music business for decades, and for most of it she wasn't a bottom dwelling celebrity either. Mary, apparently the most personable and outgoing of the original trio of Supremes, made countless friends and connections in the industry and yet it seems like none of it did her much- if any- good [[business wise) after she left the group. What labels did she audition for? How many demos did she record and shop around? I cannot be convinced that after Dreamgirl's success that there weren't labels who saw dollar signs in being able to promote Mary Wilson and her music. Hell even Cindy Birdsong had a damn recording contract in the 80s! LOL But Mary couldn't get one? Nobody wanted her? I'm trying so hard to break my bad habit of cussin but for this I have to say: BULLSHIT.

The one mystery is what the hell happened with Atlantic Records? No reputable source seems to have any real insight into what happened after Mary recorded the demos for the company. Perhaps they heard the demos and didn't like what they heard. But was that on Mary or the songs? And could anyone who signs Stacy Q and Julian Lennon decide that there's nothing Mary could do vocally? I think not. Lol

I don't recall her talking about Atlantic in her second book at all.

Bravo. And I couldn't agree more about the possibility of Mary getting a contract after the success of "Dreamgirl". Sales of the book alone should have had record companies interested in her.

The only thing I can come up with, by looking at the top hits of that year[[1986) is that music was new wave heavy, and 3 of the 5 biggest songs of the year came fom non-US artists: Falco, Europe, and the Pet Shop Boys. The biggest US sellers were Madonna and Berlin. Maybe Mary could have found her niche, but I don't see her competing with anything that was current at the time.

[jobeterob]

Bravo. And I couldn't agree more about the possibility of Mary getting a contract after the success of "Dreamgirl". Sales of the book alone should have had record companies interested in her.

The only thing I can come up with, by looking at the top hits of that year[[1986) is that music was new wave heavy, and 3 of the 5 biggest songs of the year came fom non-US artists: Falco, Europe, and the Pet Shop Boys. The biggest US sellers were Madonna and Berlin. Maybe Mary could have found her niche, but I don't see her competing with anything that was current at the time.

And she was too old

[marv2]

Bravo. And I couldn't agree more about the possibility of Mary getting a contract after the success of "Dreamgirl". Sales of the book alone should have had record companies interested in her.

The only thing I can come up with, by looking at the top hits of that year[[1986) is that music was new wave heavy, and 3 of the 5 biggest songs of the year came fom non-US artists: Falco, Europe, and the Pet Shop Boys. The biggest US sellers were Madonna and Berlin. Maybe Mary could have found her niche, but I don't see her competing with anything that was current at the time.

There were several record companies that were interested in Mary Wilson. Has it ever occurred to you that maybe they could not come to terms with her? Just maybe.........?

[RanRan79]

Bravo. And I couldn't agree more about the possibility of Mary getting a contract after the success of "Dreamgirl". Sales of the book alone should have had record companies interested in her.

The only thing I can come up with, by looking at the top hits of that year[[1986) is that music was new wave heavy, and 3 of the 5 biggest songs of the year came fom non-US artists: Falco, Europe, and the Pet Shop Boys. The biggest US sellers were Madonna and Berlin. Maybe Mary could have found her niche, but I don't see her competing with anything that was current at the time.

Oh yeah, no way was Mary going to compete with any of the BIG names at that point. Around Dreamgirl I don't think Mary was going to do much more than maybe a few top 40 pop singles, some top 20/maybe top 10 r&b singles, some top 10 AC cuts, and a couple of nice albums. Maybe with some luck she might have gotten one big universal smash [[I think Mary would've done just as well as Brenda Russell with "Piano In the Dark"). I think she could do some soft rockers, but it would've been best to let her do the type of stuff Anita Baker, Phyllis Hyman, Melissa Morgan, Regina Belle, and others were doing [[her demo of "Sleeping In Separate Rooms" is the direction I think she should have gone in). But there's no way in my mind that Mary was going to be putting up numbers that even Diana couldn't do at that point. But she would have proven to be a solid money maker IMO. The hope would have been that she was able to just be Mary Wilson, without the Supremes.

[milven]

There were several record companies that were interested in Mary Wilson. Has it ever occurred to you that maybe they could not come to terms with her? Just maybe.........?

Sounds believable. And there was the other time when she couldn't come to terms and also wound up with nothing.

[Roberta75]

there were several record companies that were interested in mary wilson. Has it ever occurred to you that maybe they could not come to terms with her? Just maybe.........?

lololololololololololololol

[midnightman]

Something tells me Mary's confidence wasn't so high even when she released Dreamgirl because the music industry had changed so much from when she was 16. Now she was 42. Time was definitely running out but she could've went into a freestyle/R&B/urban contemporary sound similar to Vanessa Williams and Mel'isa Morgan that year. She had the look and voice for it, just needed a label and the sound so she could finally be MARY WILSON, you know? Instead of "oh that's just Diana Ross' singing partner". Even Florence Ballard post-mortem has been seen as FLORENCE BALLARD, the group's founder. Mary, however, "oh just a background singer" to the mainstream. That has to suck because she was more capable than that, way more.

[jobeterob]

Due to Marv, Mary gets so crapped on in these threads

They are the most popular threads beyond Word Association

I hope she doesn’t come and read these threads because it wouldn’t help the ego of somebody who in the end only was known as known as a background singer on Diana Ross’s hits

[marv2]

Due to Marv, Mary gets so crapped on in these threads

They are the most popular threads beyond Word Association

I hope she doesn’t come and read these threads because it wouldn’t help the ego of somebody who in the end only was known as known as a background singer on Diana Ross’s hits

Due to me? You mean due to you and your buddies. I always support and honor Mary. If there is any crapping done in a Mary Wilson thread it's by you because you cannot stand that I do not like Diana Ross at all!

[midnightman]

I hope she doesn’t come and read these threads because it wouldn’t help the ego of somebody who in the end only was known as known as a background singer on Diana Ross’s hits

I doubt Mary is bothered these days. She feels satisfied with where her legacy is at. She's a Rock and Roll Hall of Famer. That's enough for her.

[Bluebrock]

Due to me? You mean due to you and your buddies. I always support and honor Mary. If there is any crapping done in a Mary Wilson thread it's by you because you cannot stand that I do not like Diana Ross at all!
And just to put a balance on this situation it could also be true to say that you cannot stand that some people do not like Mary Wilson at all! It works both ways.

[marv2]

And just to put a balance on this situation it could also be true to say that you cannot stand that some people do not like Mary Wilson at all! It works both ways.

No, that would not be accurate or truthful. I do not care at all if you cannot stand Mary or not. It's your preference. I don't like Diane..ever!

[midnightman]

K, guys, we're having a great discussion, don't mess it up lol...

I should be a mod here LOL

I'm watching y'all...

http://25.media.tumblr.com/d72acd52ceaa7d8fcd535d138b696fb8/tumblr_mxtolfPtNP1t6nn9lo4_400.gif

[RanRan79]

Sounds believable. And there was the other time when she couldn't come to terms and also wound up with nothing.

I don't believe anyone is buying that Mary talked to a bunch of labels and couldn't come to terms. If anything, that scenario makes Mary look bad. It makes her look like an idiot who couldn't figure out how to negotiate a deal. And let's not kid ourselves, love her as we do, but this is Mary Wilson, not Diana Ross. What the hell was there for her to negotiate? Unless every contract had crazy stipulations like Mary had to sign over her first born or she had to undergo medicinal experiments or she had to perform a concert on the moon, there really was nothing for her to turn down. If the label was going to pay her and help her put out an album, what was the problem?

[RanRan79]

Something tells me Mary's confidence wasn't so high even when she released Dreamgirl because the music industry had changed so much from when she was 16. Now she was 42. Time was definitely running out but she could've went into a freestyle/R&B/urban contemporary sound similar to Vanessa Williams and Mel'isa Morgan that year. She had the look and voice for it, just needed a label and the sound so she could finally be MARY WILSON, you know? Instead of "oh that's just Diana Ross' singing partner". Even Florence Ballard post-mortem has been seen as FLORENCE BALLARD, the group's founder. Mary, however, "oh just a background singer" to the mainstream. That has to suck because she was more capable than that, way more.

Definitely agree on how the public views each Supreme. I don't know if I buy that her confidence around Dreamgirl was still low. When she performs during that time, I don't see or hear a woman who second guesses her abilities. I think at that point she had tunnel vision. She did the book, it was a phenomenal success, but I don't think she really thought about how to parlay that success into a music career. I bet you that once the first book hit, she immediately started thinking about the second book. And of course the second book was definitely a good move, but again, what about the music? Just seems like missed opportunities to me.

[RanRan79]

I doubt Mary is bothered these days. She feels satisfied with where her legacy is at. She's a Rock and Roll Hall of Famer. That's enough for her.

I agree. She's a grandmother now and, like Diana, she's at a point in her life when there's no crying over spilled milk. Mary has done more than most of her peers in the industry, and for far longer too. We fans probably make more of these kinds of things than the artists do at this point.

[RanRan79]

K, guys, we're having a great discussion, don't mess it up lol...

I should be a mod here LOL

I'm watching y'all...

http://25.media.tumblr.com/d72acd52ceaa7d8fcd535d138b696fb8/tumblr_mxtolfPtNP1t6nn9lo4_400.gif

You and that gif!! You gotta do one of Florence.;)

[midnightman]

You and that gif!! You gotta do one of Florence.;)

Haha, I got a good Flo gif from this too. :)

[midnightman]

Definitely agree on how the public views each Supreme. I don't know if I buy that her confidence around Dreamgirl was still low. When she performs during that time, I don't see or hear a woman who second guesses her abilities. I think at that point she had tunnel vision. She did the book, it was a phenomenal success, but I don't think she really thought about how to parlay that success into a music career. I bet you that once the first book hit, she immediately started thinking about the second book. And of course the second book was definitely a good move, but again, what about the music? Just seems like missed opportunities to me.

Right. You'd think she'd be able to make music waves like Tina Turner did [[though she released her first memoirs after re-establishing herself so maybe that's not a good comparison?). But yeah I agree that Mary was thinking about books than music. She had mentioned writing a "part 2" during promotion of the Dreamgirl book.

[midnightman]

I agree. She's a grandmother now and, like Diana, she's at a point in her life when there's no crying over spilled milk. Mary has done more than most of her peers in the industry, and for far longer too. We fans probably make more of these kinds of things than the artists do at this point.

Plus, she's living very comfortably in Vegas. And yeah some fans are stuck in the '60s/'70s like the issues that were mentioned wasn't 50 years old already. It's great to reminisce but yeah.

[Bluebrock]

I don't believe anyone is buying that Mary talked to a bunch of labels and couldn't come to terms. If anything, that scenario makes Mary look bad. It makes her look like an idiot who couldn't figure out how to negotiate a deal. And let's not kid ourselves, love her as we do, but this is Mary Wilson, not Diana Ross. What the hell was there for her to negotiate? Unless every contract had crazy stipulations like Mary had to sign over her first born or she had to undergo medicinal experiments or she had to perform a concert on the moon, there really was nothing for her to turn down. If the label was going to pay her and help her put out an album, what was the problem?
Good post. I find it hard to believe she turned down many if any offers of a recording contract. I am sure she would have taken pretty much any offer on board. It is more likely that no-one was willing to take a chance on her. Her voice does not lend itself well on pop or r&b tunes. She is better suited to jazzy numbers and standards . A cabaret singer maybe, but an r&b diva ? No way.

[sup_fan]

everyone needs a certain level of self awareness. dream vs reality. sure she was blessed and fortunate to be part of the Supremes but everyone knows nothing lasts forever. and after a certain amount of banging your head against the wall, you should realize that a career as a pop singer has either come & gone and a solo opportunity isn't going to arise.

and maybe she did come to this conclusion. After the little bit in Sup Faith about signing with a few labels in the early 80s, it doesn't sound like she did much with any other potential deals. except that little bit she did with Nightmare.

But she could have also focused on doing session work, developing a reputation in another genre like jazz, cabaret work, stage work, education, etc. And there was the oldies circuit which she was heavily involved with. I'm not personally aware of what she did or didn't do to diversify and find other opportunities. maybe she did, maybe she didn't.

I do think she probably should have reconsidered the opportunity to join the FLO's. i doubt anyone would have demanded that she devote herself 24/7 to that group - they didn't have so many gigs and recording demands that she couldn't have continued some of her solo work. and basically during this time she was still living off the Sups name and touring as a former Supreme. I've always wondered if there was still angst between her and Lynda that really prevented this

[RanRan79]

Right. You'd think she'd be able to make music waves like Tina Turner did [[though she released her first memoirs after re-establishing herself so maybe that's not a good comparison?). But yeah I agree that Mary was thinking about books than music. She had mentioned writing a "part 2" during promotion of the Dreamgirl book.

Tina was a once in a lifetime story, I think. Mary was never going to make those kind of waves, Dreamgirl or no Dreamgirl. A lot of the music business is pure luck vs many other factors, but I do think most of the HUGE artists of our lifetimes were uniquely talented in someway. I think Mary was/is a gifted vocalist, gorgeous, charismatic, great stage presence. But uniquely talented...I wouldn't say that. She could've made a label some nice money, but she wasn't ever going to do a Tina Turner. Lol [[And I say that as someone who prefers Mary's voice to Tina's.)

[midnightman]

Tina was that artist that was driven and determined to get to where she got to and didn't kiss butt to do it [[honestly why didn't VH-1 do a "Driven" type documentary for her first post-Ike years?!?!).

Mary was already looked as a Motown legend.

[sup_fan]

also Tina was the lead singer of her outfit. so she had already established her voice and stage presence with an overall audience. wasn't like she was one of the Ikettes trying to land a record deal

[midnightman]

That's true lol

She WAS the star of the show as well.

But I do think in terms of background singers of vocal groups, Mary has become one of the most famous, if not the most famous.

[jobeterob]

That's true lol

She WAS the star of the show as well.

But I do think in terms of background singers of vocal groups, Mary has become one of the most famous, if not the most famous.

I think that’s true

She’s pretty much treated as on a par with Martha Reeves

[gman]

Walk the Line was a great, modern up to date sounding song....the record company filed Bankruptcy the day after it was released. That was a very bad blow...that CD was a far better display of Mary's abilities than the '79 LP. I was never nuts about RED HOT till I saw Mary perform it live in the mid 80's...she really worked the song. I later got the 12" single....that is the arrangement she was using live.....much better flow than the LP version....and a fire red outfit, be it a gown, balloon dress or mini skirt [[saw her do it in all 3) added to the performance. Red Hot and Warm Summer Night are the only 2 songs I consider very good on that LP...You Danced My Heart was a show stopper...too bad it wasn't released at the time...and Ian Levine's Don't Get Mad Get Even is one of the best recordings in the entire Motorcity project catalogue.

[jobeterob]

And just to put a balance on this situation it could also be true to say that you cannot stand that some people do not like Mary Wilson at all! It works both ways.

How about we don’t like negative mean spirited people

Mary Wilson and Diana Ross don’t fit that Description but which poster do you think would fit that description?

[PeaceNHarmony]

also Tina was the lead singer of her outfit. so she had already established her voice and stage presence with an overall audience. wasn't like she was one of the Ikettes trying to land a record deal
Not to mention that Tina is/was a once-in-a-lifetime singer and dancer as well as force of nature.

[RanRan79]

also Tina was the lead singer of her outfit. so she had already established her voice and stage presence with an overall audience. wasn't like she was one of the Ikettes trying to land a record deal

Although a few of the Ikettes did land solo record deals, so another great example of that.

[luke]

I don’t get it. I thought it was common knowledge Neil Bogart was interested in her after Donna Summer and Atlantic had her do a demo.

[jim aka jtigre99]

I don’t get it. I thought it was common knowledge Neil Bogart was interested in her after Donna Summer and Atlantic had her do a demo.
Yes, it was not like she did nothing but I believe Motown may have made her very wary and probably she was reluctant to just be recording like she did with Motown. Still, Bogart passed away and Atlantic did not pan out. I remember seeing her on Good Morning America when Walk The Line came out and they even said she was widely quoted for wanting a recording deal and she laughed "I was begging". Her stint on Arsenio singing Walk The Line should have peaked some interest after CEO folded and I remember her singing Bad Case Of Lovin You on Rick Dees and he was quite complimentary. I think in negotiating perhaps the two sides couldn't come to terms with both being a legend and a new soloist but I am sure there are those on here who know far more than I and that will r*d#ly say so

[RanRan79]

I don’t get it. I thought it was common knowledge Neil Bogart was interested in her after Donna Summer and Atlantic had her do a demo.

We discuss the Atlantic demos [[I think there were four). I recall Mary writing about meeting with Bogart but had forgotten the details. I also recall some folks questioning the truth of Mary's story. I just finally pulled Mary's book out to read exactly what she wrote about the Neil Bogart situation. I don't doubt her story. She may have padded it a bit with Neil's promise to make her a huge star, but I believe her when she says she was days away from signing when he passed away.

She also writes this, which is very interesting: "I met with various label executives, once even auditioning for Merv Griffin's new record company, but no luck." Prior to this statement she talks about having the Gus Dudgeon masters and how the industry had changed in a way that a singer needed a finished product in order to get a contract. So I wonder how much of the "no's" she received had to do with the demos she might have been shopping around? Many of us agree that the songs are great, Mary sounds great, and a full album of Gus' productions could have been a turning point for her post Supremes career. But the music business always was tough on Black women and feeling the need to place them in a box. Those Dudgeon songs are mostly very pop sounding. Perhaps the labels didn't want a pop singing Black woman? What if Mary had shopped around demos that had a more r&b sound to them, what might the reaction have been?

Just throwing some stuff out there. Ultimately none of us will ever know why things didn't go Mary's way, so it's all conjecture.

[RanRan79]

Also, Mary writes about this time in her life [[the early 80s) that "My self confidence wasn't at its highest..." So I guess it makes sense that this too would play a part in the decisions she made regarding the industry.

[midnightman]

Mary said she and Neil were negotiating the deal with Casablanca when he died of cancer in 1982.

It's also possible Mary Wilson was trying to present herself as a woman who could sing anything via the Gus Dudgeon demos but labels told her to her face they couldn't sell a black woman singing rock and/or pop rock music so they turned her down.

Doesn't seem like she was trying to carve an R&B career at the time...

[Ollie9]

Mary Wilson has a wonderful Cassandra Wilson type voice. Jazz and soulful ballads was the genre of material she should have been recording at that period in time. Not rock,pop and most certainly not disco. She could have built quite a following if she had just understood the type of music that was best suited to her voice. I certainly believe record labels would have shown a little more interest if she had.
From an image perspective she often [[not always) presented herself as a kind of Diana Ross clone which did not help matters either. I think it would have been better for her to downplay the glamour/glitter image and gone for a more earthy look.

[sup_fan]

^agreed

it also didn't help that her show was essentially a rehashed Supremes show from the late 70s. many of the same arrangements and gowns. so she was touring basically as an oldies act but trying to audition for labels as a current pop star.

and as i said before, given her age she had about 3 weeks after leaving the Sups to make it before she would start being considered too old.

Time was ticking, she had locked herself in an out of date performance image, she had no current pop record in the US [[with our without the Sups).

[gman]

Mary also did acting after the book...perhaps she was undecided about what performance area she should be concentrating on? She got great reviews for her work in Grandma Sylvia's Funeral and her performance in Beehive...She also got an education...moving to NY to attend classes at NYU.

[marv2]

Mary also did acting after the book...perhaps she was undecided about what performance area she should be concentrating on? She got great reviews for her work in Grandma Sylvia's Funeral and her performance in Beehive...She also got an education...moving to NY to attend classes at NYU.

Yeah, she appeared in a number of stage productions. I saw her in Beehive and Grandma Sylvia's Funeral. She also appeared in "Leader of the Pack", "Ardella's Soul Shack", "Vagina Monologues" to name a few.

[marv2]

^agreed

it also didn't help that her show was essentially a rehashed Supremes show from the late 70s. many of the same arrangements and gowns. so she was touring basically as an oldies act but trying to audition for labels as a current pop star.

and as i said before, given her age she had about 3 weeks after leaving the Sups to make it before she would start being considered too old.

Time was ticking, she had locked herself in an out of date performance image, she had no current pop record in the US [[with our without the Sups).

Recording was just one part of Mary Wilson's career and we see now, recording contracts are not that beneficial financially to artists anymore. Maybe if you are the top 5-10 artists recording today.

[TheMotownManiac]

Recording contracts were much more beneficial in the late 70s and 80s because most acts were produced in association with the artists so the rampant ripping off artists by overcharging them for sessions was basically over. Mary was able to pay for sessions she wanted, or agree to be produced by house who wished to market her. Like Walk The Line. Yes, it ultimately didn’t work out, but it was all on their dime - It didn’t cost Mary a dime and she got TV and trade exposure because if the good single One Night Woth You.

[marv2]

I don’t get it. I thought it was common knowledge Neil Bogart was interested in her after Donna Summer and Atlantic had her do a demo.

She did several demos for Atlantic. One was written by Janie Bradford and it has become a favorite of mine:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b__7CSPRyIM

[marv2]

Yes, it was not like she did nothing but I believe Motown may have made her very wary and probably she was reluctant to just be recording like she did with Motown. Still, Bogart passed away and Atlantic did not pan out. I remember seeing her on Good Morning America when Walk The Line came out and they even said she was widely quoted for wanting a recording deal and she laughed "I was begging". Her stint on Arsenio singing Walk The Line should have peaked some interest after CEO folded and I remember her singing Bad Case Of Lovin You on Rick Dees and he was quite complimentary. I think in negotiating perhaps the two sides couldn't come to terms with both being a legend and a new soloist but I am sure there are those on here who know far more than I and that will r*d#ly say so

Fantasy Records tried to sign Mary, but she passed on it and then sent Brenda Holloway to them. They simply could not come to terms with Mary.

[Roberta75]

Fantasy Records tried to sign Mary, but she passed it and then sent Brenda Holloway to them. They simply could not come to terms with Mary.

Mary Wilsons generous to a fault. The womans a saint.

[midnightman]

Recording contracts were much more beneficial in the late 70s and 80s because most acts were produced in association with the artists so the rampant ripping off artists by overcharging them for sessions was basically over. Mary was able to pay for sessions she wanted, or agree to be produced by house who wished to market her. Like Walk The Line. Yes, it ultimately didn’t work out, but it was all on their dime - It didn’t cost Mary a dime and she got TV and trade exposure because if the good single One Night Woth You.

Just wished it paid off with a hit single.

[TheMotownManiac]

It is a shame - it got good distribution- it was in many stores and reviewed in Billboard positively but sadly radio stayed away totally. Her vocal is very good but needed some polish - especially at the end. Still, I thought it would get some play.

[midnightman]

Imagine had a major label done the same thing and actually promoted it, huh...

[Bluebrock]

Recording was just one part of Mary Wilson's career and we see now, recording contracts are not that beneficial financially to artists anymore. Maybe if you are the top 5-10 artists recording today.
But they were back in the period we are discussing.

[midnightman]

Yeah we're not discussing now, we're discussing BACK THEN...

[marv2]

Mary also did acting after the book...perhaps she was undecided about what performance area she should be concentrating on? She got great reviews for her work in Grandma Sylvia's Funeral and her performance in Beehive...She also got an education...moving to NY to attend classes at NYU.

I almost forgot one of my favorite shows Mary appeared in, "Supreme Soul" in 1997 with Tommy Nillson in Sweden and other European Markets.

[luke]

Due to Marv...Lolol. Mary is quite satisfied with who she is and her legacy...and so is Colin Powell, Land mines organization , Harlem ice skaters, AIDS groups , Truth in Music, Breast cancer organizations etc etc.

[REDHOT]

Mary Wilson is a success,even without a hit record,shes been a singer all her life,shes hit some highs and some lows,that's LIFE,The Supremes success is her success too,she has worked it,and there's nothing wrong with that,she had a solo deal,with a major record company, MOTOWN,for what ever reason,she did,Mary Wilson is still singing and entertaining,all over the world, let the haters hate,Work it Mary Wilson

[marv2]

Due to Marv...Lolol. Mary is quite satisfied with who she is and her legacy...and so is Colin Powell, Land mines organization , Harlem ice skaters, AIDS groups , Truth in Music, Breast cancer organizations etc etc.

She also "adopted" a Detroit public school girl to mentor, provide clothing and books to recently.

[midnightman]

So we can't discuss why Mary struggled to get the right deal? It was obvious that there were things going on in the industry that prevented her from taking advantage of opportunities. We know how racist and sexist the industry is but we can't talk about it because it's all in the past? Get off that post-racial "forget about it" rant, guys! JFC... even Mary would think this was a good discussion. I'm sure she can discuss the post-Supremes years more in her attempts to get a solo deal. Some of y'all act like it's hurting her legacy talking about it lol

https://66.media.tumblr.com/1197c881b87f31307a27f6b1171cef13/tumblr_mxtolfPtNP1t6nn9lo6_250.gif

[jobeterob]

I actually think most Supremes remember the good things, the good times and the good old days

Nut cases are on ignore by them

[Roberta75]

She also "adopted" a Detroit public school girl to mentor, provide clothing and books to recently.

Mary did a wonderful thing by sponsoring this young lady. She didnt adopt her she sponsors her and is encouarging others to sponsor children. Why do you insist in exagerating everything. You put the "adopted" in quotes but its still misleading. Mary doesnt need you to make her look better. She is a great person and wouldnt appreciate you misconstruing things she does.

Here is the link to anyone here or everywhere that would like to sponsor a child.Please pass it on to all your friends and familly. www.childrenincorporated.org [[https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.childrenincorporated.org% 2F%3Ffbclid%3DIwAR023LEw4kJpOTiRJJIluhU5YKfxNMqZva X-1ITP7xwfXOAYWlVEBcXL_7U&h=AT0A2ppxEe78Tu8TXyhRZsv8g1DDDQt55Ud3XuCBaYtLkYYq ckulnUT2w-Kj6vhhL2i1V17VwNbvihGfR4nSkeininLRrKH6pT-RzCMQIGnds1D8BlcGicGQL4OTUZ3aWRxANhgBu1nKQIioMa-ToYZEGTY-Bepu3tNq7mUG) Its a real great charity and almost 92% of the money donated goes directly to the charity which makers it one of the best to donate to.


https://scontent-lax3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-1/p50x50/41328274_10215995433935331_9040542679292706816_n.j pg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-2.xx&oh=45018abd0561b9c5975c1f33797dbc04&oe=5C5B96AB [[https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1132599217&fref=nf&__tn__=%2Cdm-R-R&eid=ARBuYicnlzqYKLkaVqXc8ljD6p50uK0mN1svfT42MN5GC2 ptMvLMZEtsMxVITVG4HdIIlPMGCWwpMBjF)
Mary Wilson [[https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1132599217&__tn__=%2CdC-R-R&eid=ARATqcDAiFQ0qPvfnWxXGuTHKkxXzf_ABk0awccQW4bHbJ IbbcRG3HVJ9DEei5yHvWPWwYGX9WAKMikF&hc_ref=ARROEtB7SF2N6art_2txktVdla2IlZOOV0BR51qXM64 Fsw6xXnCJeRcRXdHYaZ-7-hQ&fref=nf)
March 21 [[https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10214712354859156&set=a.1168021517360&type=3) · https://static.xx.fbcdn.net/rsrc.php/v3/yM/r/tVUBgXiq-bn.png
Finally met my new friend in Detroit. Yes I am a sponsor of Armani. Isn’t she cute. I was in town with my Figure Skating in Detroit group which gave me the opportunity to meet Her. To sponsor a child is so gratifying.

Mary Wilson [[https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1132599217&__tn__=%2CdC-R-R&eid=ARATqcDAiFQ0qPvfnWxXGuTHKkxXzf_ABk0awccQW4bHbJ IbbcRG3HVJ9DEei5yHvWPWwYGX9WAKMikF&hc_ref=ARROEtB7SF2N6art_2txktVdla2IlZOOV0BR51qXM64 Fsw6xXnCJeRcRXdHYaZ-7-hQ&fref=nf)
March 21 [[https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10214712354859156&set=a.1168021517360&type=3) · https://static.xx.fbcdn.net/rsrc.php/v3/yM/r/tVUBgXiq-bn.png
Mary Wilson sponsors this beautiful young lady through CHILDREN INCORPORATED. She became involved with the organization for two reasons: to help this child on an individual basis, and to encourage other people to do likewise. Child sponsorship is easy. For just $30 monthly, a child will receive individualized assistance including food, clothing, school supplies, and so much more. It really does work, and it really does make a difference. Please, Mary Wilson fans, consider sponsoring through CHILDREN INCORPORATED. Sponsor in Ms. Wilson's honor. Call 1-800-538-5381 to get started, and be sure to tell the operator that you are sponsoring as a result of Ms. Wilson's example. Thanks a lot, from one Supreme lover to many others....

www.childrenincorporated.org [[https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.childrenincorporated.org% 2F%3Ffbclid%3DIwAR023LEw4kJpOTiRJJIluhU5YKfxNMqZva X-1ITP7xwfXOAYWlVEBcXL_7U&h=AT0A2ppxEe78Tu8TXyhRZsv8g1DDDQt55Ud3XuCBaYtLkYYq ckulnUT2w-Kj6vhhL2i1V17VwNbvihGfR4nSkeininLRrKH6pT-RzCMQIGnds1D8BlcGicGQL4OTUZ3aWRxANhgBu1nKQIioMa-ToYZEGTY-Bepu3tNq7mUG)