Dream Supreme Projects

[sup_fan]

certainly part of the magic to me with regards to The Girls is they effortless way to adapt to practically any musical genre and concept. they easily handled different themed projects like R&H, Funny Girl and many more

So what would you have had the girls do?

Should they have gone ahead and finished/released a project like Tribute to the Girls or Disney?

Should they have done a different show album besides Funny Girl?

Since Thelma on Good Times had a pic of them, should MJL done a guest appearance on the show? [[heck -why not lol. Diana appeared on Make Room for Granddaddy!)

although they JUST missed it from a timing perspective, what if MSS had appeared on the Love Boat! lol

[RanRan79]

I think both Tribute and Disney should've been completed. Disney is tricky because both Flo and Cindy are prominent during the sessions, but I think it completing it and releasing it perhaps as a Christmas like album during the holidays would've been a good idea. Tribute is a great concept and I think both Flo and Mary should've been featured prominently throughout.

Scrap "Funny Girl" altogether. Maybe do a DRATS version of Tribute to the Girls 2, where they sing songs made popular in the last couple years by women like Martha and the Vandellas [["Jimmy Mack"?), Marvelettes [["Hunter Gets Captured By the Game"), Aretha, Gladys, Dionne, Barbara Acklin, etc. Also Tribute 2 could've been a possible album idea for the Jean lineups.

I would've definitely had JML on Good Times. Cut two of the Four Tops duet lps. Maybe have JMC or JML do a gospel-ish album. I would have loved for the original Supremes [[minus Barbara, but she's not a deal breaker) to record some true gospel cuts. I really don't care for the arrangements of the spirituals Diana was given in 1966.

I don't think I have any dreams for the Scherrie years. To me there isn't much to be done there, although had they still been a group at the time, the Love Boat idea is a great one.

[blackguy69]

Good times would’ve been good only thing is it would have been MSC that would appear. I think they could have done a variety show a la Tony Orlando and Dawn. Or I would have done a specialty where each girl does a side and the last side introducing new material

[Thornton]

Good times would’ve been good only thing is it would have been MSC that would appear. I think they could have done a variety show a la Tony Orlando and Dawn. Or I would have done a specialty where each girl does a side and the last side introducing new material

MSC would have been the best 70's incarnation of the group to do a variety show/special. I would have liked to see "Discover Japan" aired and released as an album in the U.S.

I agree with cutting the 2nd and 3rd Four Tops duet albums. Not that it isn't good material, just too much content in too short a time.

There are so many small changes I would have made, but not sure if there's a "dream" project. The closest I can think of is re-working the Jimmy Webb album into a solely JML endeavor, better cover, lower key for Jean, leads for Lynda, etc.

[marybrewster]

Perhaps not dream projects, but I wonder why the Supremes weren't able to break into the movies like the Three Degrees [[The French Connection) or the Pointer Sisters [[Car Wash) did.

Perhaps a bit too late, but didn't Motown produce "Thank God It's Friday"? Perhaps the Supremes could have taken place of the Commodores? Maybe Paul.Jabara could have written for them, or Giorgio Moroder produced for them? And could have been included in the soundtrack?

[sup_fan]

i agree Mary. Diana did an early guest spot on Make Room for Granddaddy back in 70 or 71. so it wasn't unheard of. by mid 70s there were a million different options for them. They could have done an appearance on Sesame Street, in various movies, other sitcoms.

I wonder if by then the girls were just not considered "hip." you have Mary, Scherrie and Cindy still singing songs like Tonight and Can't Take My Eyes Off Of You in Vegas. not exactly instep with what was happening.

when they went outside of Motown to find Jimmy Webb, i wished they'd found a more current, relevant and appropriate producer. Carole King had just released Tapestry in early 71. she was such a significant female song writer. Imagine if she'd been pair with the most significant female recording group. and the production qualities she used would have been marvelous for MJL.

With Funny Girl, i realize that Berry wanted to help solidify the associated between Diana and Barbra. And it does make some sense, given the hype at the time on Broadway about the show. But what if they did Hair!! The show made its Broadway debut in spring 68 and was pretty much a sensation from the start. After doing something so controversial as the single Love Child, what if they'd actually done some sort of hybrid project? the word is that the original LC lp was to have all serious, socially conscience songs. but most of the tracks we've since released are rather bleak and depressing. the album would have probably been such a downer. and yes, i understand they're focusing on serious topics. but what if they interwove selections from Hair and LC? would certainly have been interesting and groundbreaking! lol

[sup_fan]

it might be timing with the group too but i'm surprised they never appeared at Studio 54. it opened in 77 so, again, perhaps timing. but the girls were hot in disco. i'm surprised they didn't ever appear there, at least as part of mary's farewell

[lucky2012]

certainly part of the magic to me with regards to The Girls is they effortless way to adapt to practically any musical genre and concept. they easily handled different themed projects like R&H, Funny Girl and many more

So what would you have had the girls do?

Should they have gone ahead and finished/released a project like Tribute to the Girls or Disney?

Should they have done a different show album besides Funny Girl?

Tribute to the Girls would have been the perfect concept album for 1965. Girl Groups were on the way out with the obvious exception of the Supremes [[and to a much lesser extent, Martha & the Vandellas and the Marvelettes). With the onslaught of the British Invasion and the rise of Bob Dylan and electric folk/rock, The Supremes were the standard bearers for the genre. A Tribute to the Girls would have made a statement.

Disney Classics would have worked very well in late 1967 as the group was riding the tremendous wave of the double-album Greatest Hits.

By 1968, after the departure of HDH, the group was more and more a showcase for Diana Ross, Funny Girl being an [[excellent) example. The group's studio albums and singles [[with the exception of Love Child) seemed to become second-priority. With Diana's expected departure, I don't think Motown would have seriously planned another show album.

I've said in another thread that the Touch album [[imo) was a departure for JMC. Time and Love by Laura Nyro fit well with songs like This Is The Story, Love It Came to Me This Time, Here Comes the Sunrise, Johnny Raven and Nathan Jones. 1971 was the year of Carole King's Tapestry and Joni Mitchell's Blue. JMC exploring the catalogs of the female [[and male) singer/songwriters would have been interesting. The Jimmy Webb album could have been a perfect step in that direction. :[[

[RanRan79]

A variety show might've been an interesting idea. Also love the idea of the group appearing in a movie. What if there had been a scene in Mahogany where Tracy and Brian go to a club to see the Supremes? [[I don't know how the timing was with the movie and the time between groupings so I realize it might not have been possible, but fans would've certainly got a kick out of watching Tracy go see Diana's old group.:D)

Also love the idea of Carole King producing them. That might have made more sense than Jimmy Webb, if that was the direction the group was intent on going. I would've preferred the group reaching out to Thom Bell or maybe even Eugene Record of the Chi Lites, and of course Allen Toussaint was an obvious since he was dating Jean but...

[Thornton]

Tribute to the Girls would have been the perfect concept album for 1965. Girl Groups were on the way out with the obvious exception of the Supremes [[and to a much lesser extent, Martha & the Vandellas and the Marvelettes). With the onslaught of the British Invasion and the rise of Bob Dylan and electric folk/rock, The Supremes were the standard bearers for the genre. A Tribute to the Girls would have made a statement.

Disney Classics would have worked very well in late 1967 as the group was riding the tremendous wave of the double-album Greatest Hits.

By 1968, after the departure of HDH, the group was more and more a showcase for Diana Ross, Funny Girl being an [[excellent) example. The group's studio albums and singles [[with the exception of Love Child) seemed to become second-priority. With Diana's expected departure, I don't think Motown would have seriously planned another show album.

I've said in another thread that the Touch album [[imo) was a departure for JMC. Time and Love by Laura Nyro fit well with songs like This Is The Story, Love It Came to Me This Time, Here Comes the Sunrise, Johnny Raven and Nathan Jones. 1971 was the year of Carole King's Tapestry and Joni Mitchell's Blue. JMC exploring the catalogs of the female [[and male) singer/songwriters would have been interesting. The Jimmy Webb album could have been a perfect step in that direction. :[[

You make some really good points. I would have combined "Let The Sunshine In" and "Cream of the Crop" into a single album of strong, new material. "Someday We'll Be Together" could have simply been put on volume 3 of their greatest hits, just as "The Happening" never got its own album.

We know that The Supremes recorded Joni Mitchell's "All I Want," and performed "Where You Lead" on the Merv Griffin Show. I can hear Jean covering "So Far Away" and "Both Sides Now." Lynda would have torn up "I Feel The Earth Move."

LaBelle is so perfect on Laura Nyro's "It's Gonna Take A Miracle" album, but I can't help wondering how MSC would have handled the material.

I suppose we could go on and on and on and...

[sup_fan]

i like the idea of the Disney album being released around the holidays, perhaps dec 67. it even included Won't Be Long Until Christmas and Toyland. would have sold well i think and would have probably been the most logical time to release it

with the Jean era, i think Joel Dorn [[who did Roberta Flack's material) would have been interesting. he and Carole were working on sensitive and impressive work. it's sort of what i think Webb was attempting but got carried away

with DRATS, i think there were opportunities to do some project work that would have still highlighted D. of course it wouldn't really be a group work since they were building her up. TCB was obviously a major event and they pulled it off perfectly. Interesting they didn't try to really do something major with their live performances. Barbra did the big Central Park gig in 67. seems like they would have tried something bigger with the DRATS live performances than they did

[RanRan79]

We know that The Supremes recorded Joni Mitchell's "All I Want," and performed "Where You Lead" on the Merv Griffin Show. I can hear Jean covering "So Far Away" and "Both Sides Now." Lynda would have torn up "I Feel The Earth Move."

I suppose we could go on and on and on and...

Oh man how I would love to have heard Jean doing "So Far Away" and "I Feel the Earth Move", although I agree Lynda would've been great on it too. What about Mary doing "Natural Woman" arranged specifically for her? I think she would've been great.

[RanRan79]

i like the idea of the Disney album being released around the holidays, perhaps dec 67. it even included Won't Be Long Until Christmas and Toyland. would have sold well i think and would have probably been the most logical time to release it

with the Jean era, i think Joel Dorn [[who did Roberta Flack's material) would have been interesting. he and Carole were working on sensitive and impressive work. it's sort of what i think Webb was attempting but got carried away

with DRATS, i think there were opportunities to do some project work that would have still highlighted D. of course it wouldn't really be a group work since they were building her up. TCB was obviously a major event and they pulled it off perfectly. Interesting they didn't try to really do something major with their live performances. Barbra did the big Central Park gig in 67. seems like they would have tried something bigger with the DRATS live performances than they did

It's important to remember that with all the milestones the Supremes were having in the 60s, it was still the 1960s and these were three Black women in America during a time when most Black women still couldn't get respect. What the Supremes did was so tremendous that I think it's easy to think that they could pretty much do whatever they wanted, the sky's the limit, but that wasn't the case. There was only so much they could do, not only because the industry would've limited even the mighty Supremes, but also because Gordy and company wouldn't have dreamed it. In a perfect world the Supremes would've had their own movie, their own television show [[not just a special), a line of clothes, even dolls. The best they could do was a line of bread. Lol And wasn't that a Detroit company that produced their bread? Was it a Detroit exclusive? I was under the impression that you couldn't go into just any store in the country and get a loaf of Supremes bread. The 1970s would've definitely been the decade to imagine the Supremes doing all these incredible non music related things, but after the first two years they weren't popular enough to do much more than the wig line.

[lucky2012]

We know that The Supremes recorded Joni Mitchell's "All I Want," and performed "Where You Lead" on the Merv Griffin Show. I can hear Jean covering "So Far Away" and "Both Sides Now." Lynda would have torn up "I Feel The Earth Move."

LaBelle is so perfect on Laura Nyro's "It's Gonna Take A Miracle" album, but I can't help wondering how MSC would have handled the material.

I suppose we could go on and on and on and...
All I Want is one of only two or three songs I like from the Jimmy Webb album. I'd like to hear them do River or I Don't Know Where I Stand. Both Sides Now is kind of overdone but I wonder how Mary or a mellow Jean would handle it.
For King, I agree about So Far Away and I Feel The Earth Move. I can hear Mary on Home Again and a mellow Jean on Tapestry. You've Got A Friend is overdone and Natural Woman is Queen Ree's always and forever. I like Smackwater Jack but it's as appropriate as Ode to Billy Joe. :)
It's Gonna Take A Miracle was all covers [[and we'd best leave that album to Labelle). I was thinking of Nyro originals like Hands Off The Man, Stoned Soul Picnic and Wedding Bell Blues. I have no idea how the Supremes would do Sweet Blindness or And When I Die.
Interesting that at around this time La Prima Diva Streisand was attempting to get current with Stoney End and Time And Love by Nyro, as well as songs by Mitchell, Lightfoot, Newman and King. Even more interesting is that La Suprema Diva Ross might have beaten her to the punch if the Bones Howe productions had been released before or [[God forbid!) instead of the Ashford & Simpson masterpieces.


I would have combined "Let The Sunshine In" and "Cream of the Crop" into a single album of strong, new material.

I did exactly this for my own personal DRATS playlist. There was enough between the two albums for a playlist that at least comes close to deserving the title Cream of the Crop.

[lucky2012]

love the idea of Carole King producing them. That might have made more sense than Jimmy Webb, if that was the direction the group was intent on going. I would've preferred the group reaching out to Thom Bell or maybe even Eugene Record of the Chi Lites, and of course Allen Toussaint was an obvious since he was dating Jean but...
Thom Bell! Allen Toussaint and Eugene Record would have been great, too. Smokey's Floy Joy was a nice change from Touch and Thom Bell would been an antidote to Jimmy Webb. [[Love the man and his music but hate the album).


originally posted by sup_fan: with the Jean era, i think Joel Dorn [[who did Roberta Flack's material) would have been interesting. he and Carole were working on sensitive and impressive work. it's sort of what i think Webb was attempting but got carried away

Totally agree. Mary's voice may have worked well with Joel Dorn producing.


What if there had been a scene in Mahogany where Tracy and Brian go to a club to see the Supremes? [[I don't know how the timing was with the movie and the time between groupings so I realize it might not have been possible, but fans would've certainly got a kick out of watching Tracy go see Diana's old group.
https://soulfuldetroit.com/images/smilies/biggrin.png
)

This is the best idea yet!! If only...

[marybrewster]

How about David Rubinson? He produced some catchy [[and throwback) hits for the Pointers in the early 70's. Would that style have worked for the Supremes? Maybe with Jean?

Speaking of the Pointers, what about their stuff with Richard Perry? If the Supremes had stayed together past 1977, or reunited in the 80's as suggested [[with Mary, Scherrie, and Cindy), would they have hit with "Jump" and "I'm So Excited"? I can almost hear Mary's smokey vocal on "Automatic".

[sup_fan]

i think if Scherrie had been allowed to be more of a leader with the group, there might have been more options presented to them. Mary's voice is quite specific and as we've all mentioned many times, not immediately suited to typical pop songs. gorgeous on ballads and similar but often times that's not the primary style or approach a producer is going to take with a group. Sure Joel Dorn's work with Roberta could have worked marvelously w Mary. but they might have had more luck with establishing their late 70s reputation if things weren't being so focused on mary and her eventual solo career.

here's an idea :p

the Supremes on an episode of the Brady Bunch Hour lolol

[sup_fan]

It's important to remember that with all the milestones the Supremes were having in the 60s, it was still the 1960s and these were three Black women in America during a time when most Black women still couldn't get respect. What the Supremes did was so tremendous that I think it's easy to think that they could pretty much do whatever they wanted, the sky's the limit, but that wasn't the case. There was only so much they could do, not only because the industry would've limited even the mighty Supremes, but also because Gordy and company wouldn't have dreamed it. In a perfect world the Supremes would've had their own movie, their own television show [[not just a special), a line of clothes, even dolls. The best they could do was a line of bread. Lol And wasn't that a Detroit company that produced their bread? Was it a Detroit exclusive? I was under the impression that you couldn't go into just any store in the country and get a loaf of Supremes bread. The 1970s would've definitely been the decade to imagine the Supremes doing all these incredible non music related things, but after the first two years they weren't popular enough to do much more than the wig line.

you're absolutely right. getting them into the Copa, Lincoln Center and the tv specials was beyond belief. But given all of that track record, i don't think it would have been totally impossible for them to do something in Central Park. still might have been a stretch but not inconceivable

i do think it would have been more challenging for them to do something like a weekly tv program or a variety show in the 70s. assuming they could act lol. but i think racial barriers would have made this very challenging

it's a same that more merchandising wasn't in place back then. yeah the wig line was a joke mostly because wigs were becoming less commonplace. not completely out of style but they were probably 3 or 4 years too late with that.

but makeup and fashion would have been great

[marybrewster]

It's important to remember that with all the milestones the Supremes were having in the 60s, it was still the 1960s and these were three Black women in America during a time when most Black women still couldn't get respect. What the Supremes did was so tremendous that I think it's easy to think that they could pretty much do whatever they wanted, the sky's the limit, but that wasn't the case. There was only so much they could do, not only because the industry would've limited even the mighty Supremes, but also because Gordy and company wouldn't have dreamed it. In a perfect world the Supremes would've had their own movie, their own television show [[not just a special), a line of clothes, even dolls. The best they could do was a line of bread. Lol And wasn't that a Detroit company that produced their bread? Was it a Detroit exclusive? I was under the impression that you couldn't go into just any store in the country and get a loaf of Supremes bread. The 1970s would've definitely been the decade to imagine the Supremes doing all these incredible non music related things, but after the first two years they weren't popular enough to do much more than the wig line.

I think it's interesting that 40/50 years later, you can walk into a Target or a Walmart or a Macy's or a Kohls, and you can find a Beatles shot glass or a Jimi Hendrix poster or a The Who tee shirt but TRY and find something Supremes.

[reese]

I think it's interesting that 40/50 years later, you can walk into a Target or a Walmart or a Macy's or a Kohls, and you can find a Beatles shot glass or a Jimi Hendrix poster or a The Who tee shirt but TRY and find something Supremes.

Very true. It really hits me whenever I go to my local bookstore. I always see classic artists from Johnny Cash to Elvis to the Rolling Stones with nice magazines or well-done LIFE special issues devoted to their careers. It is a shame that the Supremes aren't treated in the same fashion.

[RanRan79]

Thom Bell! Allen Toussaint and Eugene Record would have been great, too. Smokey's Floy Joy was a nice change from Touch and Thom Bell would been an antidote to Jimmy Webb. [[Love the man and his music but hate the album).


I agree about Floy Joy and Touch. Touch was a different sound from New Ways, and IMO a better sound. Smokey's stamp on Floy Joy was another departure of sound, yet still remained very JMC. I love that the girls did seem to pay attention to their artistic direction by not getting stuck inside a formula. While I consider the JW album to be a serious misstep, it too is in keeping with the idea of exploring something different, as was the Stevie productions.

[RanRan79]

How about David Rubinson? He produced some catchy [[and throwback) hits for the Pointers in the early 70's. Would that style have worked for the Supremes? Maybe with Jean?

Speaking of the Pointers, what about their stuff with Richard Perry? If the Supremes had stayed together past 1977, or reunited in the 80's as suggested [[with Mary, Scherrie, and Cindy), would they have hit with "Jump" and "I'm So Excited"? I can almost hear Mary's smokey vocal on "Automatic".

Yes David Rubinson would've been a very interesting choice. I think that style would've worked with Jean, but not necessarily Scherrie. I think Richard Perry producing even the last MSS album would've been a great move. The stuff he did with the Pointers was great, as was the stuff he did with Diana. I'm intrigued by the sound he would've created for Scherrie, Mary and Susaye. As far as the 80s go, I see no reason to believe that Richard wouldn't have recorded some classic stuff on a MSC reunion, but because my heart would've been set on a DMC reunion, it's hard for me to contemplate MSC getting back together...or the public even caring, no matter how good the material.

[RanRan79]

I think it's interesting that 40/50 years later, you can walk into a Target or a Walmart or a Macy's or a Kohls, and you can find a Beatles shot glass or a Jimi Hendrix poster or a The Who tee shirt but TRY and find something Supremes.

Right? It's annoying. But isn't this also an issue of whoever is in charge of Motown's merchandising? Obviously we've all sung the song about how ridiculous Universal is treating Motown's music output, but surely the merch portion is still in control of someone who cares at Motown, right?

[Thornton]

Oh man how I would love to have heard Jean doing "So Far Away" and "I Feel the Earth Move", although I agree Lynda would've been great on it too. What about Mary doing "Natural Woman" arranged specifically for her? I think she would've been great.

Mary would sound wonderful on the right arrangement of "Natural Woman." I was trying to think of a good song for her.

[sup_fan]

I agree about Floy Joy and Touch. Touch was a different sound from New Ways, and IMO a better sound. Smokey's stamp on Floy Joy was another departure of sound, yet still remained very JMC. I love that the girls did seem to pay attention to their artistic direction by not getting stuck inside a formula. While I consider the JW album to be a serious misstep, it too is in keeping with the idea of exploring something different, as was the Stevie productions.

i have the "interview" version of the Touch lp. it was issued to dj's and included some of the tracks from the album along with pre-recorded answers to the interview questions. the djs would have had a sheet of questions that they would read on-air and then the girls would "answer." unfortunately the ? sheet is missing but it's great to hear them talk about things

They mention that for the Touch lp, Frank wanted to use the songs to tell sort of a story of love. the full cycle, so to speak. If you look at the songs in that manner, it sort of works as a concept album. albeit a loose concept.

This is the Story - opens the album with a wonderful song about the the sadness of unreturned love.
Nathan Jones - ok buddy, enough is enough. i've wasted enough tears on you. time for you to take a hike
Here comes the sunrise - a new day is dawning, i was lost but here's someone new. how exciting and wonderful
Love it came to me this time - wow, thank god for a new love
Johnny raven - you're a player but i still love you
have i lost you - hey is something up here? are you here to stay?
time and love - ok this i'm not sure about. but i guess don't worry. time and love cures all
Touch - that last night of love and ecstasy. we aren't done, it's still warm and wonderful
Happy is a bumpy road - the morning after and you discover wait, things really aren't all that good
It's so hard to say goodbye - but i need to


i realize i might be trying to take the lyrics too literally. maybe sequentially isn't the approach but that each song addresses a different aspect of love.

[lucky2012]

That's so cool about the interview version. Do all three get to talk? Yes, Touch was all about love more personal than "stoned love". "This is the story" indeed. Your take on the story cycle is "right on"


It's so hard to say goodbye - but i need to

and very funny, too.

[marybrewster]

Couldn't you just see Jean, Mary, and Cindy?

https://youtu.be/z3ChaWFaKKw

[marybrewster]

Or maybe Mary, Scherrie, and Cindy?

https://youtu.be/fFZaBvqsh0I

[blackguy69]

Or maybe Mary, Scherrie, and Cindy?

https://youtu.be/fFZaBvqsh0I
it reminds me more of the Three Degrees. But I can see MSC doing this.

[RanRan79]

Definitely could see Jean, Mary and Cindy doing this. I wonder if the girls in the commercial were really singing or if someone else's voice. I enjoyed it.

[sup_fan]

That's so cool about the interview version. Do all three get to talk? Yes, Touch was all about love more personal than "stoned love". "This is the story" indeed. Your take on the story cycle is "right on"

and very funny, too.

yep - all girls share and talk. very much a group interview. sometimes it's floating around on youtube

[johnny_raven]

The groups in the commercial was called "Jenny's Daughters"

https://www.discogs.com/artist/2644565-Jennys-Daughters