PDA

View Full Version : What if Barbara Martin had stayed?


test

luke
10-03-2018, 08:49 PM
Would the Supreme magic still have come through? Thoughts?

marv2
10-03-2018, 10:13 PM
Yes if they were still produced by Holland Dozier Holland. They would have also been able to continue three part harmony in the background, meaning less need to add session singers like the Andantes, etc.

luke
10-04-2018, 04:39 PM
I thought perhaps 4 may have diluted the impact some from each distinct lady.

RanRan79
10-04-2018, 07:56 PM
IMO the answer is no, the magic would not have come through. I think there was something special about the chemistry of Flo, Diana and Mary. Adding a fourth person, any person, would've thrown it off. As it stands, I've always said that once Barbara was gone, vocally the group got better. Mary and Flo had a wonderful blend. When Barbara was in the group her alto was kind of on the flat side. It did not have the richness or the beautiful tone that Mary's alto had. On their own, each girl, Flo, Diana and Mary, were really good soloists. Mary remarks in her first book that she could tell right away that Barbara wasn't a great singer. Personally I think that comes through in the harmonies.

Also the trio really seemed to have a more visually cohesive flow to it, vs a quartet or quintet, which is why I think you see female groups eventually tend to form as trios as opposed to quartets and quintets once the 60s really got going. [[And I do think the Supremes' popularity had something to do with it.) Ultimately I think everything had to be just right for the Supremes' success: Diana as lead, Flo and Mary's harmonies, the Funk Bros instrumentation, HDH's lyrics and productions. Take away any one component and things go down hill: the cuts with backing by someone other than the Funks lack the quality fans had come to love from the Supremes; Flo's exit and the entire act suffered; HDH's exit and for the most part the singles suffered; Diana exits and things are never quite right again. It was the perfect recipe for success. Barbara would've put a dent in that.

midnightman
10-04-2018, 08:18 PM
It wouldn't have worked. Even when Barbara was in the group, most focused on Flo, Diana and Mary. Once she left, that's when the legend of the Supremes really began. The Marvelettes had five strong singers, the Vandellas' original trio was the best sounding vocal girl group, the Supremes as a quartet wouldn't have made sense. They were meant to be a trio. As Mary herself said, Barbara Martin was not as good a vocalist as the other three. She was the weakest link lol

captainjames
10-05-2018, 02:40 PM
It could have been just as magical with Barbara or for that matter Betty. Barbara's voice would have improved just like the other ladies. We really don't have a lot to go on since there are very few recordings of her. Also looking at the few pics of her I would say she was a something great to look at. My last thought is that if Barbara had of stuck around we would have probably got that reunion.

sup_fan
10-05-2018, 02:50 PM
i don't think it would have made a huge difference either. I do think, vocally, she was the weakest of the three and that their harmonies improved faster once she left. But then again, the harmonies are excellent on Your Heart Belongs To Me. i think for years i just assumed that as post Barbara and that it's MDF doing backgrounds. to this day, i'm not completely sure it isn't.

The biggest question is would she have really made the transition from a young teen doing something mostly for shits and giggles to a dedicated entertainer that wanted to conquer the Copa, Vegas, sing show tunes, etc. As time went on, Flo became more disenfranchised with this approach to entertaining, feeling it was superficial. What if she had had an ally in Barbara on this topic? would that simply have brought the destruction of the group up earlier?

Berry was always focused on Diana but it was also the overall group [[in 64 and early 65) that caught his attention too. he pushed them even then to do more and more. who knows how well or adeptly barbara would have fit in