Were the Spinners invited to Motown 25?

[luke]

Anyone Know?

[woodward]

Anyone Know?

I never read anywhere that they were invited and failed to appear. Like poor Marv Johnson ---- he was not invited and totally overlooked.

[luke]

That’s a shame. I’m assuming Gladys and Pips were invited but turned it down? That’s impression I got from her comments....”....now why would we want to go and be a part of that?”

[marv2]

Anyone Know?

No they weren't, along with a whole host of Motown artists from the Detroit days.

[marv2]

That’s a shame. I’m assuming Gladys and Pips were invited but turned it down? That’s impression I got from her comments....”....now why would we want to go and be a part of that?”

Gladys said that they declined because they felt that the show should be honoring the artists that built the company and not just the company itself.


Eddie Kendricks and David Ruffin were also not invited. Eddie asked and was told that he could buy a ticket sit in the audience. James Jamerson was not invited and had to buy a ticket. Marvin Gaye called Kat of the Marvelettes and asked her why weren't they there. She told him that they were not invited and he was pissed!

[marv2]

I never read anywhere that they were invited and failed to appear. Like poor Marv Johnson ---- he was not invited and totally overlooked.

They could have had Marv Johnson there if Ms. DePasse wanted him there. Remember just 6 years later, Ian Levine was able to get a great number of the original Motown artists together to record them in Detroit and LA.

[arr&bee]

According to otis,david and eddie cussed out some execs so they were out,now as for the others it was a damn shame that they weren't there...what the f--k was adam ant????? Doing on that stage??

[luke]

I guess Because Diana liked dancing with him!

[midnightman]

^ Or maybe Berry thought Adam Ant, and not some sparkly single gloved wonder of pop music, would bring in the kids... ;)

Honestly, I never put the Spinners in the list of classic Motown acts. That would be like asking why the Isley Brothers weren't asked. The Spinners became legends in a different label. It wouldn't have worked.

The Marvelettes and E&D not being asked was a far bigger crime IMHO.

BG should thank his lucky stars MJ saved the night. Michael really didn't know he did Motown a HUGE favor that night.

[jboy88]

I remember renting the Motown 25 special when it was on vhs! I remember rewinding during several performances but fast-forwarding though Adam Ant! WTF was he doing there butchering one of my favorite songs by the Supremes!

[marv2]

^ Or maybe Berry thought Adam Ant, and not some sparkly single gloved wonder of pop music, would bring in the kids... ;)

Honestly, I never put the Spinners in the list of classic Motown acts. That would be like asking why the Isley Brothers weren't asked. The Spinners became legends in a different label. It wouldn't have worked.

The Marvelettes and E&D not being asked was a far bigger crime IMHO.

BG should thank his lucky stars MJ saved the night. Michael really didn't know he did Motown a HUGE favor that night.

What kind of favor did Michael do for Motown? It was the other way around. Motown Productions allowed him to debut his latest single [[for another record label) in front of a nationwide audience. The effect of Michael's performance was not known until after the special had aired and he is the one the benefited the most.

The Spinners, Gladys Knight & the Pips, David Ruffin, Eddie Kendricks, the Marvelettes, Kim Weston and all of the Funk Brothers should have been there. They should have also at least mention the names "Jean Terrell", "Florence Ballard" and "Paul Williams".

[luke]

Totally agree. At least Mary mentioned Florence but of course it got deleted!

[Roberta75]

They could have had Marv Johnson there if Ms. DePasse wanted him there. Remember just 6 years later, Ian Levine was able to get a great number of the original Motown artists together to record them in Detroit and LA.

Was that when Mary Wilson ran off with Ian Levines $10,000. He was so upset.

[jobeterob]

Was that when Mary Wilson ran off with Ian Levines $10,000. He was so upset.

The Ian Levine sessions were truly a match for Motown 25

[gman]

the Adam Ant and Linda Ronstadt performances were probably scheduled to show the impact of the labels music on different artists....why not ask Tony Bennett to sing For Once In My Life?...that is like the Quessential classic non Motown performance of a Motown standard.... Rare Earth also could have been included.

[marybrewster]

How about the Vandellas?

I suppose Martha was lucky enough to get her 30 seconds, so why share them?

[Motown Eddie]

the Adam Ant and Linda Ronstadt performances were probably scheduled to show the impact of the labels music on different artists....why not ask Tony Bennett to sing For Once In My Life?...that is like the Quessential classic non Motown performance of a Motown standard.... Rare Earth also could have been included.

I picked up the 2DVD set of Motown 25 a few years ago and in the interview section on DVD 2 with Suzanne DePasse, she stated that NBC did not want a TV special with all Black artists [[!). So that [[partly) explains some of the odd choices that she made about the acts that were on the show. That's one reason I'll always consider the Motown 25 special a very mixed bag.

[marv2]

the Adam Ant and Linda Ronstadt performances were probably scheduled to show the impact of the labels music on different artists....why not ask Tony Bennett to sing For Once In My Life?...that is like the Quessential classic non Motown performance of a Motown standard.... Rare Earth also could have been included.

I would have loved that!

[marv2]

How about the Vandellas?

I suppose Martha was lucky enough to get her 30 seconds, so why share them?


The Vandellas were not invited by Suzanne DePasse.

[PeaceNHarmony]

Was that when Mary Wilson ran off with Ian Levines $10,000. He was so upset.
Interesting. I thought Wilson's sabotage of the Supremes reunion [[red dress, etc) was her only transgression for that performance.

[Roberta75]

"The original broadcast of the two-hour show was watched by 47 million people, according to Nielsen, with 35 percent of the country with a TV set turned onwatching Motown 25."

So it was a massive hit for Motown and Suzanne DePasse and 35 years theres nothing gonna change that fact. Heres the original ad for it.

[marv2]

I picked up the 2DVD set of Motown 25 a few years ago and in the interview section on DVD 2 with Suzanne DePasse, she stated that NBC did not want a TV special with all Black artists [[!). So that [[partly) explains some of the odd choices that she made about the acts that were on the show. That's one reason I'll always consider the Motown 25 special a very mixed bag.

This was during the time when MTV would not play videos of Black artists. Two years later Motown at the Apollo aired, at least the artist selection of non-Motown artists made sense. They had Rod Stewart, George Michael, Boy George etc.

NBC was just being racist and not giving the America public credit. I think people wanted to see the people that actually made the music rather than harking back to the 1950s when white artists covered popular songs by the original black artists. Sucks!

[captainjames]

Considering all the egos at Motown I think Susanne did good for making it happen.

[sup_fan]

i think Adam, Linda and Jose Feliciano were absolutely only included to add some white performers. never mind of course that the Sups and Temps had perfectly handled musical specials back in the 60s with no token white additions.

But this was also a tribute [[mostly) to oldies and so maybe they wanted to add in a few more recent, current artists. hence Adam and [[sort of) Linda.

you also had Dick Clark [[bandstand), Howard Hesseman and Tim Reid [[WKRP in Cincy), Billie Dee Williams [[film star), Richard Pryor [[comedian) and John Moschitta [[the fast talker) to help add in more general public references. Sure BDW and Richard were in movies but some of the general public might not have made that connection.

GK&TP was one of the biggest missing performers and i've heard a variety of reasons. Namely being that they never felt part of the family and so why would they come pay tribute to said family?

it is a terrible shame what they did to Mary Wells, martha and Jr. Those totally insignificant snippets of their songs was just pathetic. and same with not even inviting the Marvelettes. Odds if if they had been asked, Gladys would have sang 4 bars of Postman during this ill-advised segment.

the other acts - Velvelettes, Chris Clark, Contours, Brenda, Kim, Isley's, Spinners, Originals all were small enough artists that the general public probably really would have had no idea who they were or what they sang. of course fans definitely missed them but their Motown recorded output really just doesn't have the immediate recognition among the avg public

plus they were trying to build this as yesterday, today, forever. So they had to not only include the mega-stars from the 60s but make some sort of nod to the current artists like Rick James, Lionel, mary Jane Girls, Debarge.

by the time you add up all of these, there's just no more room for anyone

[sup_fan]

What kind of favor did Michael do for Motown? It was the other way around. Motown Productions allowed him to debut his latest single [[for another record label) in front of a nationwide audience. The effect of Michael's performance was not known until after the special had aired and he is the one the benefited the most.


it's not that the Motown team "allowed" Michael to do Billie Jean. he demanded it as a condition of his appearance AND that he'd have control over final edits and production of the segment so that they simply couldn't chop it out.

otherwise michael would not have done the special

and to give Suzanne and team credit, MJ was just exploding as a mega star with Thriller and they couldn't have timed things better. his appearance and doing such as massive song only helped solidify the program ratings.

[motony]

yes, it was a shame the way Mary Wells, Martha Reeves & Junior Walker were treated like after thoughts & for the Marvelettes not to be invited was wrong on so many levels . I remember Martha telling Smokey she did not have anything to wear for this & he made sure she did. Gladys Horton always spoke her mine & I think some of those Calif. Motown people didn't want her around. After this Mary Wells & Martha Reeves did start making mega bucks on the "oldies" circuit, so it did get their names back out there.

[marybrewster]

i think Adam, Linda and Jose Feliciano were absolutely only included to add some white performers. never mind of course that the Sups and Temps had perfectly handled musical specials back in the 60s with no token white additions.

But this was also a tribute [[mostly) to oldies and so maybe they wanted to add in a few more recent, current artists. hence Adam and [[sort of) Linda.

you also had Dick Clark [[bandstand), Howard Hesseman and Tim Reid [[WKRP in Cincy), Billie Dee Williams [[film star), Richard Pryor [[comedian) and John Moschitta [[the fast talker) to help add in more general public references. Sure BDW and Richard were in movies but some of the general public might not have made that connection.

GK&TP was one of the biggest missing performers and i've heard a variety of reasons. Namely being that they never felt part of the family and so why would they come pay tribute to said family?

it is a terrible shame what they did to Mary Wells, martha and Jr. Those totally insignificant snippets of their songs was just pathetic. and same with not even inviting the Marvelettes. Odds if if they had been asked, Gladys would have sang 4 bars of Postman during this ill-advised segment.

the other acts - Velvelettes, Chris Clark, Contours, Brenda, Kim, Isley's, Spinners, Originals all were small enough artists that the general public probably really would have had no idea who they were or what they sang. of course fans definitely missed them but their Motown recorded output really just doesn't have the immediate recognition among the avg public

plus they were trying to build this as yesterday, today, forever. So they had to not only include the mega-stars from the 60s but make some sort of nod to the current artists like Rick James, Lionel, mary Jane Girls, Debarge.

by the time you add up all of these, there's just no more room for anyone

I agree with many of your comments. I always thought Adam Ant was included in the special due to the fact that "Tainted Love/Where Did Our Love Go" had just been a hit by Soft Cell. Clearly Adam wasn't a part of that group, but they're both from the UK, and Adam was clearly a bigger name in 1983; would the US audience know the difference?

I know that Kat has mentioned she was upset that the Marvelettes weren't included but what was the reality that they'd participate? By her own admission she had long retired; I don't know what Wanda's mental or physical health was at that time, so truly that just leaves Gladys, and I think you're right; she would have been given as much air time as Mary Wells and Martha. Hardly even worth getting dressed for.

[marybrewster]

I think what a lot of people are forgetting also is that when this aired, it was a HUGE success. So much so that Motown just like in the 60's saw dollar signs, and knew there was money to be made off VHS sales.

Does anyone know if the participants were paid for Motown 25? I seem to recall talk that most did it out of loyalty to BG, but when talk started of releasing this on video, Mary Wilson, rightly so, felt everyone should be compensated.

[arr&bee]

^ or maybe berry thought adam ant, and not some sparkly single gloved wonder of pop music, would bring in the kids... ;)

honestly, i never put the spinners in the list of classic motown acts. That would be like asking why the isley brothers weren't asked. The spinners became legends in a different label. It wouldn't have worked.

The marvelettes and e&d not being asked was a far bigger crime imho.

Bg should thank his lucky stars mj saved the night. Michael really didn't know he did motown a huge favor that night.i disagree about the spinner,although they only had two hits while at motown the songs were a part of their history-i'll always love you[65]-it's a shame[70].

[reese]

I think what a lot of people are forgetting also is that when this aired, it was a HUGE success. So much so that Motown just like in the 60's saw dollar signs, and knew there was money to be made off VHS sales.

Does anyone know if the participants were paid for Motown 25? I seem to recall talk that most did it out of loyalty to BG, but when talk started of releasing this on video, Mary Wilson, rightly so, felt everyone should be compensated.

I think the show itself was originally a benefit for Sickle Cell Anemia. But when the show was being prepared for VHS and profit was when Mary tried to negotiate. She wrote about it in her second book.

[Roberta75]

I think what a lot of people are forgetting also is that when this aired, it was a HUGE success. So much so that Motown just like in the 60's saw dollar signs, and knew there was money to be made off VHS sales.

Does anyone know if the participants were paid for Motown 25? I seem to recall talk that most did it out of loyalty to BG, but when talk started of releasing this on video, Mary Wilson, rightly so, felt everyone should be compensated.

It had 47 million viewers in the US alone. It was HUGE. It also gave a huge boost to the carreers of Mary Wells and Jr Walker and others.

[marv2]

I think what a lot of people are forgetting also is that when this aired, it was a HUGE success. So much so that Motown just like in the 60's saw dollar signs, and knew there was money to be made off VHS sales.

Does anyone know if the participants were paid for Motown 25? I seem to recall talk that most did it out of loyalty to BG, but when talk started of releasing this on video, Mary Wilson, rightly so, felt everyone should be compensated.

Yes it was a huge television ratings success but everything else you mentioned.........NO! NO! NO! The artists agreed to participate mainly because they were told that it was for a charity. They were told that it was for Sickle Cell Anemia Research. No they were not paid for their appearances. After the show aired and Ms. DePasse found out how popular the show was, she tried to pull a fast one and decided to sale the show commercially via VHS tapes in 1985. Many of the artists that performed that night felt like once again they were being ripped off my Motown. Mary Wilson filed a lawsuit immediately [[that's my girl! LOL!).

After this, I don't know what kind of financial arrangement Ms. Passe was forced to make with the Artists , but I do know that they were pissed that she used the fact that the TV Special was to benefit a charity and then turned around and tried to make it into a money making venture.

[jobeterob]

I think it perked many careers but only for perhaps a year; and many hoped for the second coming

Mary hoped for a recording contract but her voice remained non commercial; so she was reduced to writing a book and following and talking about Diana

[midnightman]

it's not that the Motown team "allowed" Michael to do Billie Jean. he demanded it as a condition of his appearance AND that he'd have control over final edits and production of the segment so that they simply couldn't chop it out.

otherwise michael would not have done the special

and to give Suzanne and team credit, MJ was just exploding as a mega star with Thriller and they couldn't have timed things better. his appearance and doing such as massive song only helped solidify the program ratings.

Exactly. That's what I said what I said. Take away MJ [[AND Marvin, he almost didn't do it!), the special would've been a disaster and everyone knows that. I don't know why some of y'all don't take the wools out of your eyes. The non-MJ/Marvin list of people who eventually accepted participation was disastrous save for Stevie, the Miracles reunion and the Tempts/Tops.

I like to see some of y'all tell me how this special would've worked without MJ... don't worry, I'll wait lol

How is it when people talk about Motown 25 outside of Motown lovers and Detroiters, it's always MJ and Marvin and not anyone else. You don't even hear of the Supremes fracas that night that much as you used to.

[marybrewster]

My personal opinion is that the Temptations and Four Tops stole the show. Definitely MJ and Marvin were highlights as well but the rest was blah at best.

[marv2]

I thought the DeBarge/High Inergy duet was just as exciting as anything else presented that night.

[marybrewster]

And if I'm not mistaken, Motown 25 was the first appearance of Ronnie Tyson in the group. If you watch him, he's a PRO!

[Roberta75]

My personal opinion is that the Temptations and Four Tops stole the show. Definitely MJ and Marvin were highlights as well but the rest was blah at best.

i thought Richard Pryor was such a great host and real real funny IMO.

[midnightman]

I did say the Temptations and the Four Tops helped to make Motown 25 a hit... I'm just saying, the aforementioned ones made it legendary [[MJ/Marvin). But yeah the Tempts/Four Tops definitely were a huge highlight to the show.

[bradsupremes]

I think one of the reasons why so many of the early artists were left out was due to Suzanne de Passe’s lack of connection to them. She joined Motown in 1968 and probably didn’t know who was at the label prior to her or had limited contact with early artists who were still at the label when she joined.

I’m not sure I buy de Passe’s reasoning that NBC didn’t want a TV special with all black artists so that’s why she included Adam Ant, Linda Ronstadt, etc. NBC did TCB and GIT 15 years prior and those were far more racially tense times.

[marv2]

I think one of the reasons why so many of the early artists were left out was due to Suzanne de Passe’s lack of connection to them. She joined Motown in 1968 and probably didn’t know who was at the label prior to her or had limited contact with early artists who were still at the label when she joined.

I’m not sure I buy de Passe’s reasoning that NBC didn’t want a TV special with all black artists so that’s why she included Adam Ant, Linda Ronstadt, etc. NBC did TCB and GIT 15 years prior and those were far more racially tense times.

Great points Brad. She needed to do her research. I know I was not the only one watching and wondering where so many others were that night.

[arr&bee]

I've always felt that the performers[only the motown artist]after a medley each should have come back to sing one of thier classic songs,in it's entirety!

[marv2]

I've always felt that the performers[only the motown artist]after a medley each should have come back to sing one of thier classic songs,in it's entirety!

Same here. I cannot understand why that did not happen. A lot of them were available and would have jumped at the chance to appear on national television again. Ian Levine was able to find most of them back in Detroit, so I know that was not the issue.

[luke]

I believe the Supremes were originally supposed to sing three in their entirety.

[midnightman]

I think one of the reasons why so many of the early artists were left out was due to Suzanne de Passe’s lack of connection to them. She joined Motown in 1968 and probably didn’t know who was at the label prior to her or had limited contact with early artists who were still at the label when she joined.

I’m not sure I buy de Passe’s reasoning that NBC didn’t want a TV special with all black artists so that’s why she included Adam Ant, Linda Ronstadt, etc. NBC did TCB and GIT 15 years prior and those were far more racially tense times.

That's true! Suzanne definitely didn't have no connection to EARLY Motown. She joined Motown in the late '60s as a teenager...

[marv2]

That's true! Suzanne definitely didn't have no connection to EARLY Motown. She joined Motown in the late '60s as a teenager...

That's not an excuse. There were plenty enough of us watching on television that did not work for Motown at all, but not only knew of the missing artists, but respected them and enjoyed their music. She was just being her usual nasty self. Then turned around and tried to profit from what was suppose to be a charity event. Later for her..........

[phil]

For me just the fact that James Jamerson had to buy a ticket speaks volumes...

[marv2]

That's true! Suzanne definitely didn't have no connection to EARLY Motown. She joined Motown in the late '60s as a teenager...

No, Suzanne DePasse was not a teenager, she was 22 years old when she joined Motown in 1968. She was friends with Cindy Birdsong. It was Cindy who introduced Suzanne to Berry Gordy in NYC. You remember how she treated Cindy later on in the 70s when Cindy was down on her luck and needed a job,right?

[marv2]

For me just the fact that James Jamerson had to buy a ticket speaks volumes...

Exactly Phil! Like he meant nothing! His talent played a huge part in making it possible for many of those artists and Motown to have hit records. He asked for a ticket to the show and was told "Go buy one"!

[sup_fan]

i think Suzanne approached motown 25 with a specific eye to appealing to a broad audience. There are tons/zillions of amazing Motown songs. and so very many people that contributed along the way. but this wasn't intended to be a documentary that exhaustively reviewed all of motown's glorious history. it was a tv special that was being done to hype both motown's tv productions and their current stable of artists. also probably with some hope to drive sales of compilations and greatest hits and help line the company's coffers.

To the average American watching that show, they'd probably have no idea who the Marvelettes were, that the Spinners recorded for Motown, some of the more obscure [[but no less wonderful) artists and groups. Heck that silly Charlene song "I've Never Been To Me" is a huge hit with gays and drag queens but so many are shocked to learn it was a Motown song! other than heavy-duty fans, the avg american listener isn't investing the time or energy to understand the full history of a record label.

therefore the decisions made for the lineup

sure it may seem heartless to big fans but i'm assuming those numbers are small when compared to the millions of people that watched the tv special. The producers packaged it correctly as a [[mostly lol) lovely stroll down memory lane. people would see their big well know stars, see some funny video clips from the era, have those "oh yeah!! i remember that song now!!" and then a week later buy some rehashed greatest hits package at Sam Goody

[sup_fan]

i think the Motown Album coffee table book was a little more for dedicated fans rather than Motown 25. sure it's still a bit light on content but contains lovely pics throughout and highlights a lot of the smaller groups.

plus the discography in the back of the book does a nice job of highlight important material and no solely focused on the smokey/marvin/diana/stevie material

[RanRan79]

I agree with Sup Fan, mostly. The first thing to remember is that this was a television special and therefore television rules. Had this been a PBS focused program, one might have expected more history, but this was NBC and the idea was to pull in ratings. Of course to diehards the show should've included folks like Brenda Holloway, Kim Weston, the Originals, etc, but that would not have done much for the average viewer. The Motown generation would've tuned in to see the big names: the Supremes, the Tempts, Tops, Martha, Mary Wells, J5, and a few others. Debarge surely would've brought in some of the younger crowd, as would the hype about MJ's performance. Of course that doesn't negate some of the obvious bad moves.

I'm not buying for a second that because Suzanne joined in 68 that she wouldn't have known to reach out to the Marvelettes. The Marvelettes were still very much with Motown in 68, while Mary Wells had been gone for years by that time, yet Suzanne had enough sense to ask her to participate. Maybe only Gladys Horton would've performed, but at least the group that gave Motown it's first Hot 100 number one would've been represented. [[As well as the Marvelettes were one of the few acts in the early days who kept Motown afloat.)

James Jamerson having to buy a ticket is disgusting. The Vandellas not being present is either the fault of DePasse or Reeves or both. Still a shame. Relegating Mary Wells, Martha Reeves and Junior Walker to snippets of one song each was just sad. Personally I would've told Suzanne and the powers that be to kiss my entire Black ass, but I do understand why they chose not to do that.

Ultimately the program turned out very well. And let's be real: Michael Jackson's "Billie Jean" eclipsed everything right and wrong about that show. His performance became iconic.

[sup_fan]

its a shame that the performers were simply relegated to their small, allotted segment and then you had that huge production earlier with the dancers and all doing Dancing In The Street. Martha commented how inappropriate it was that her air time was minuscule and then they used her song so prominently earlier. it's too bad some stars couldn't have at least had the option to participate in earlier/other segments. sure that would have involved more rehearsal time and if the star[[s) were willing to do it, they should have been allowed.

[arr&bee]

Although the micheal jackson performance was great,seeing the miracles sing[oo baby baby]would've brought down the house also the temps doing[memories]with dennis on lead-are you kidding me?

[marv2]

Although the micheal jackson performance was great,seeing the miracles sing[oo baby baby]would've brought down the house also the temps doing[memories]with dennis on lead-are you kidding me?

I agree. I wished had let the Temptations and Four Tops have separate segments after the battle of the groups segment. I would have love to have seen Kim Weston there doing "Take Me In Your Arms".

[RanRan79]

Although the micheal jackson performance was great,seeing the miracles sing[oo baby baby]would've brought down the house also the temps doing[memories]with dennis on lead-are you kidding me?

Nope, not kidding you. As great as those moments would have been, they could not have overshadowed "Billie Jean". As I said before, the moment was iconic. Even if the Miracles had gotten together to do "Ooh Baby, Baby" or the Tempts doing "Memories", neither of those would be iconic moments, as great as they would be. When you talked about the Miracles forever more or the Tempts forever more, you won't be talking about what they did at Motown 25. You'll talk about the Miracles "Shop Around" perhaps being the first time you really took notice of Motown, or how the Miracles' 'Ooh Baby Baby" was the soundtrack to a special moment at a blue light party in somebody's basement. You'll talk about the Temptations' "My Girl" being on the radio 24/7 or how "I Can't Get Next to You" got the party started. Those are career defining moments to the public, the effect that the music had. But nobody remembers anything at Motown 25 as career defining except for Michael's moment. When MJ's life is recalled, his performance at Motown 25 is always highlighted. It was one of the most memorable moments in music of the 1980s. Iconic. It's the moment everyone remembers.

[midnightman]

Motown diehards need to chill lol

No way a regular old Joe Schmoe would remember Smokey singing with the Miracles that night. But they can tell you how they imitated MJ's dance move while wearing one of their winter mittens. ;)

[arr&bee]

Ok,ok before any shots are fired over ft. Motown[smile]i totally agree with you both about mj's historic performance,what i'm saying is that why not let the artist have more than just a quick moment and then poof..put away the muskets and cannons and stand at ease..motown forever!!!

[sup_fan]

i agree with [[overall) the list of artists invited back. my one change would be to add the marvelettes and include them in some sort of manner with the early years and how they had the first #1

then the other artists like Mary Wells, Martha, and JR would be allowed to sing for longer

it's a good point that it's too bad the Temps and Tops weren't able to sing slightly more of their songs although the battle is a fun concept.

[marv2]

Motown diehards need to chill lol

No way a regular old Joe Schmoe would remember Smokey singing with the Miracles that night. But they can tell you how they imitated MJ's dance move while wearing one of their winter mittens. ;)

You say that because you were totally amazed with Michael Jackson's performance. I was college at the time and did not expect anything less from Michael that night. As far as regular people not remembering Smokey singing with the original Miracles that night you would be wrong. This show was in 1983 and there were a whole lot more Baby Boomers around then that easily remembered that 20-25 years earlier, the Miracles were a top, favorite group. Motown 25 was the motivation for all of the "Big Chill" music interest that started up shortly afterwards and the Miracles were a big part of that. All teenagers in America in the early to mid 60s remember dancing to "Ooo Baby, Baby". I was around even though I was a young kid so I "kinda" know what I am talking about here. Everyone that heard the Miracles in those days loved at least one of their songs.

[marv2]

i agree with [[overall) the list of artists invited back. my one change would be to add the marvelettes and include them in some sort of manner with the early years and how they had the first #1

then the other artists like Mary Wells, Martha, and JR would be allowed to sing for longer

it's a good point that it's too bad the Temps and Tops weren't able to sing slightly more of their songs although the battle is a fun concept.

They could have cut one of the comedy numbers [[Motor Mouth John Ushida [[sp?) and that long dance number using Marvin Gaye's "I Want You". That way they could have included a little bit of Jimmy Ruffin, Brenda Holloway and Kim Weston. How about the Velvelettes?.

For the final broadcast version, TG Sheppard, Jose Feliciano and a few others were edited completely out. They do appear on the commercial video release with the additional 25 mins. To have no mention of the Funk Brothers was a crime!

[sup_fan]

They could have cut one of the comedy numbers [[Motor Mouth John Ushida [[sp?) and that long dance number using Marvin Gaye's "I Want You". That way they could have included a little bit of Jimmy Ruffin, Brenda Holloway and Kim Weston. How about the Velvelettes?.

For the final broadcast version, TG Sheppard, Jose Feliciano and a few others were edited completely out. They do appear on the commercial video release with the additional 25 mins. To have no mention of the Funk Brothers was a crime!

the goal was to have a variety show and therefore wanted the dance segments, the non-motown artists, the comedy routines. And for the casual viewer, Motor Mouth Ushida was in a ton of 80s commercials and familiar. Those smaller artists simply didn't have the mass appeal - Velvelettes had 0 US Billboard Top 40 hits, Jimmy had 1 top ten and 2 mid-sized pop hits, brenda had 2 top 40 hits, kim had 1 top 40 song

now as a die-hard motown enthusiast, i have songs from all of these artists on playlists. but do devote air time to any of these within the confines of a 2 hour variety show just doesn't make much sense. strictly from the business and ratings perspective

[marv2]

the goal was to have a variety show and therefore wanted the dance segments, the non-motown artists, the comedy routines. And for the casual viewer, Motor Mouth Ushida was in a ton of 80s commercials and familiar. Those smaller artists simply didn't have the mass appeal - Velvelettes had 0 US Billboard Top 40 hits, Jimmy had 1 top ten and 2 mid-sized pop hits, brenda had 2 top 40 hits, kim had 1 top 40 song

now as a die-hard motown enthusiast, i have songs from all of these artists on playlists. but do devote air time to any of these within the confines of a 2 hour variety show just doesn't make much sense. strictly from the business and ratings perspective

They should have been on the show. They even should have introduced the unsung heroes of Motown if even just from the audience. They should have introduced Esther Gordy Edwards who was there in the audience. Those artists I mentioned should have been included and cut out all of the corny crap that was included. It would have been a much better show.........

[sup_fan]

all of us here on the forum would have loved a more comprehensive show focusing on all of the many wonderful artists, performers, musicians, etc. But the avg American might not have been and therefore the ratings wouldn't have been as strong. as broadcast, it won an emmy

this was never really about documenting and celebrating everything of motown. For christ's sake - it wasn't even really the 25th anniversary. it was only the 24th. it was meant to be a publicity juggernaut surrounded by the veil of a benefit for sickle cell that would hype the legend of motown, sell a tons of rehashed greatest hits and hopefully provide both the tv production dept and the current top artists on the label with some sales

there was absolutely 0 sentimentality around this - don't try to convince yourself otherwise

you can't tell me that they didn't have this full line of records and cassettes waiting in the wings to release the minute the special was done:

14715

[arr&bee]

they should have been on the show. They even should have introduced the unsung heroes of motown if even just from the audience. They should have introduced esther gordy edwards who was there in the audience. Those artists i mentioned should have been included and cut out all of the corny crap that was included. It would have been a much better show.........amen marv,amen!!

[lucky2012]

For me just the fact that James Jamerson had to buy a ticket speaks volumes...
Amen. Motown 25's biggest mistake. The Funk Brothers should have been there, spotlighted and honored.

[[Gladys Horton should also have been on stage with Martha Reeves, Mary Wells and Jr. Walker, singing Postman).

[midnightman]

all of us here on the forum would have loved a more comprehensive show focusing on all of the many wonderful artists, performers, musicians, etc. But the avg American might not have been and therefore the ratings wouldn't have been as strong. as broadcast, it won an emmy

this was never really about documenting and celebrating everything of motown. For christ's sake - it wasn't even really the 25th anniversary. it was only the 24th. it was meant to be a publicity juggernaut surrounded by the veil of a benefit for sickle cell that would hype the legend of motown, sell a tons of rehashed greatest hits and hopefully provide both the tv production dept and the current top artists on the label with some sales

there was absolutely 0 sentimentality around this - don't try to convince yourself otherwise

you can't tell me that they didn't have this full line of records and cassettes waiting in the wings to release the minute the special was done:

14715

Right. Again the hardcore Motowners going on about how the special was about the legends when it really wasn't! ;)

[marv2]

Amen. Motown 25's biggest mistake. The Funk Brothers should have been there, spotlighted and honored.

[[Gladys Horton should also have been on stage with Martha Reeves, Mary Wells and Jr. Walker, singing Postman).

Lucky2012, all of those omissions were a travesty! Suzanne DePasse was responsible for all of that. It is ironic that she would not even had a job if it were not for all of those talented, hard working Detroiters that built Motown to begin with! She could've done a roll call of all those great people that made it possible for her to come to Motown.

[marv2]

all of us here on the forum would have loved a more comprehensive show focusing on all of the many wonderful artists, performers, musicians, etc. But the avg American might not have been and therefore the ratings wouldn't have been as strong. as broadcast, it won an emmy

this was never really about documenting and celebrating everything of motown. For christ's sake - it wasn't even really the 25th anniversary. it was only the 24th. it was meant to be a publicity juggernaut surrounded by the veil of a benefit for sickle cell that would hype the legend of motown, sell a tons of rehashed greatest hits and hopefully provide both the tv production dept and the current top artists on the label with some sales

there was absolutely 0 sentimentality around this - don't try to convince yourself otherwise

you can't tell me that they didn't have this full line of records and cassettes waiting in the wings to release the minute the special was done:

14715

The "Average American" is not that dumb!

[midnightman]

i think the Motown Album coffee table book was a little more for dedicated fans rather than Motown 25. sure it's still a bit light on content but contains lovely pics throughout and highlights a lot of the smaller groups.

plus the discography in the back of the book does a nice job of highlight important material and no solely focused on the smokey/marvin/diana/stevie material

Yeah, lots were going on in the show. People forget Richard Pryor hosted the show lol

Also, I have to say I was disappointed with how Motown used DeBarge and High Inergy. I mean the performance was okay but they didn't even let High Inergy perform their own song. DeBarge was at least given a few seconds to perform All This Love! Lol

It's weird because I wished they had used I Like It but I guess they had just released All This Love as the second single.

Also, I don't think Rick James performed. That would've been a big highlight too.

[detmotownguy]

They should have been on the show. They even should have introduced the unsung heroes of Motown if even just from the audience. They should have introduced Esther Gordy Edwards who was there in the audience. Those artists I mentioned should have been included and cut out all of the corny crap that was included. It would have been a much better show.........

Yeah crap like Adam Ant - tacky to say the least.

[marv2]

Yeah, lots were going on in the show. People forget Richard Pryor hosted the show lol

Also, I have to say I was disappointed with how Motown used DeBarge and High Inergy. I mean the performance was okay but they didn't even let High Inergy perform their own song. DeBarge was at least given a few seconds to perform All This Love! Lol

It's weird because I wished they had used I Like It but I guess they had just released All This Love as the second single.

Also, I don't think Rick James performed. That would've been a big highlight too.

High Inergy performed their song "He's A Pretender" on the show. There performance with DeBarge received a standing ovation that night.

Rick James refused to performed because in his words "I would feel like a hypocrite being on stage with all of those performers that left Motown while he was still at the company helping to keep it a float"
[[I am paraphrasing, but that is pretty much what he said at the time when asked why he was not there.)

Lionel Richie refused to perform because the Commodores were invited to perform. He instead taped a segment with a little girl afflicted with Sickle Cell Anemia.

[marv2]

Yeah crap like Adam Ant - tacky to say the least.

Yep, but what was really tacky was when Diana Ross came out right in the middle of his performance and started doing a bump n' grind aka "the Booty Green" dance that was once popular in the Detroit ghetto.

[marv2]

I now remember that "Motown 25" is the very first show I ever videotaped! I had to go and rent a VCR somewhere in Denver and figure out how to hook it up before the show started LOL!!!

[detmotownguy]

I doubt Berry wasn’t too happy with his protege dancing like that. Maxine Powell prob had a fit lol!

[sup_fan]

The "Average American" is not that dumb!

i never said or implied that they were dumb. just that they frankly wouldn't care. not every single citizen on the US is a collector or historian of Motown. the avg American probably recognized It Takes Two. and maybe they'd know it was Marvin Gaye and some woman. there's no way the avg American has any name recognition of "Kim Weston."

and for most of the population that was under 20 at the time of the special, odds are the "oldies" weren't of huge interest. Sure Lionel was hot at the time, Debarge, Diana had had some big hits. Smokey had a couple recent ones. But Martha, mary Wells, Tempts, Four Tops, Jr walker, etc were not performers that a jr high kid would really have related all that much too. Adam Ant was current. Motor Mouth was current.

again, you're wrong in your assumption that this was a documentary or a historical synopsis of motown. this was a variety special celebrating the old and new of motown with the intent of driving commercial impact. there was a limited amount of air time and they made the decisions that they did based on creating a special that would drive interest and sales in motown material and be a rating success.

[sup_fan]

why would berry not be happy? sure it wasn't the "mashed potato" or the "twist" but it was a marvelously innovative performance by one of the most gifted performers of the time. and the performer was on stage paying tribute to the man and company that was responsible for their discovery and launch.

btw in To Be Loved berry talks about the immense pride he felt watching michael

[marv2]

I doubt Berry wasn’t too happy with his protege dancing like that. Maxine Powell prob had a fit lol!

Truth be told, Mr. Gordy was livid with her that night. He even barred her from attending the after party across the street from the theater at a shopping mall. LOL!

[marv2]

i never said or implied that they were dumb. just that they frankly wouldn't care. not every single citizen on the US is a collector or historian of Motown. the avg American probably recognized It Takes Two. and maybe they'd know it was Marvin Gaye and some woman. there's no way the avg American has any name recognition of "Kim Weston."

and for most of the population that was under 20 at the time of the special, odds are the "oldies" weren't of huge interest. Sure Lionel was hot at the time, Debarge, Diana had had some big hits. Smokey had a couple recent ones. But Martha, mary Wells, Tempts, Four Tops, Jr walker, etc were not performers that a jr high kid would really have related all that much too. Adam Ant was current. Motor Mouth was current.

again, you're wrong in your assumption that this was a documentary or a historical synopsis of motown. this was a variety special celebrating the old and new of motown with the intent of driving commercial impact. there was a limited amount of air time and they made the decisions that they did based on creating a special that would drive interest and sales in motown material and be a rating success.

But see you have it wrong. That special was not geared towards Jr. High School aged kids in the 80s. It was geared toward the Baby Boomers and those just a bit older as those were the largest demographic groups in America in the 1980s. Motown was the music that everyone heard and partied to just less than 20 years prior to the 1983 TV special.

[Roberta75]

Truth be told, Mr. Gordy was livid with her that night. He even barred her from attending the after party across the street from the theater at a shopping mall. LOL!

Please provide a credible link to Mr Gordy barring Diane Ross from attending the party.

[sup_fan]

hahaha - i thought yall were referring to Michael doing the moonwalk as the protege dancing on stage

now i get it. diana coming out and dancing with adam ant ;)

[sup_fan]

But see you have it wrong. That special was not geared towards Jr. High School aged kids in the 80s. It was geared toward the Baby Boomers and those just a bit older as those were the largest demographic groups in America in the 1980s. Motown was the music that everyone heard and partied to just less than 20 years prior to the 1983 TV special.

yes the older music was definitely aimed at the older demographic which covers the "yesterday" part of the theme. but having Michael, Adam ant, debarge, High Inergy, Lionel and then even Diana and Marvin were all to bring in the younger viewers and the "today" element.

where you're mistaken is in your thinking that the special was only about highlighting the past. if it was, none of these younger artists would have been included and it would have been more like Motown 40 where they do a long retrospective of the history of the company.

The subtitle of this program is clear - Yesterday, Today, Forever. they're trying to sprinkle some of the magic dust from the past onto the current and hopefully future.

[midnightman]

Yeah the title should've been the sign there: "yesterday, TODAY, and forever"...

I don't know why folks are acting this clueless to why Adam Ant was there! LOL

[midnightman]

why would berry not be happy? sure it wasn't the "mashed potato" or the "twist" but it was a marvelously innovative performance by one of the most gifted performers of the time. and the performer was on stage paying tribute to the man and company that was responsible for their discovery and launch.

btw in To Be Loved berry talks about the immense pride he felt watching michael

Berry said it was one of the greatest things he ever saw. What is up with some Soulful Detroiters here?! Revisionist history especially with the older heads?! YIKES!!!

[marv2]

yes the older music was definitely aimed at the older demographic which covers the "yesterday" part of the theme. but having Michael, Adam ant, debarge, High Inergy, Lionel and then even Diana and Marvin were all to bring in the younger viewers and the "today" element.

where you're mistaken is in your thinking that the special was only about highlighting the past. if it was, none of these younger artists would have been included and it would have been more like Motown 40 where they do a long retrospective of the history of the company.

The subtitle of this program is clear - Yesterday, Today, Forever. they're trying to sprinkle some of the magic dust from the past onto the current and hopefully future.

This is where you take liberties with your own mind! LOL! Not once did I say that the special was only about highlighting the past. No, Diana and Marvin could not have been considered a part of Motown.."today" even in March 1983 when they taped the show. Both were no longer signed to the label by the time of the special. Their contributions were strictly "yesterday" relating to Motown and the music they recorded while there. I don't know anything about Adam Ant, but I do know that El DeBarge, Barbara Mitchell and I are all the same age. I was in my last year of college at that time so I guess we were the "today" demographic. Now, who represented Jr. High School aged children on the special?

[marv2]

Berry said it was one of the greatest things he ever saw. What is up with some Soulful Detroiters here?! Revisionist history especially with the older heads?! YIKES!!!

You need to do some self inspection. Talk about revisionist, you are the one that said that High Inergy were not allowed to perform one of their own songs on the program. That is not true. The Motown 25 TV special I saw, they performed "He's A Pretender" from their latest album at that time. Soooooooo.................I guess us older heads have a better memory than you kid. LOL!

[luke]

As Marv has said it was the Big Chill era then. Every book I have read about the event said that the Supremes reunion was what most excited people and we all know what happened there and of course Michael stole the show. The excitement that people had was to see The Supremes, the 4 Tops, Martha and Mary etc. All of my friends who were by no means Motown fanatics were looking forward to seeing the classic artists and were not pleased that especially the Marvelettes weren’t there. Suzanne De Passé was ignorant.

[marv2]

As Marv has said it was the Big Chill era then. Every book I have read about the event said that the Supremes reunion was what most excited people and we all know what happened there and of course Michael stole the show. The excitement that people had was to see The Supremes, the 4 Tops, Martha and Mary etc. All of my friends who were by no means Motown fanatics were looking forward to seeing the classic artists and were not pleased that especially the Marvelettes weren’t there. Suzanne De Passé was ignorant.

Oh yeah there was a lot of anticipation surrounding the Supremes reunion. Several times a day leading up to air time, NBC showed promos highlighting their reunion by showing a few moments of Mary, Diana and Cindy on stage together. The target audience was definitely Baby Boomers aka "The Bill Chill" generation. I can promise you that no one at Motown Productions were having meetings trying to decide how to get children to watch LOL!!!! If that were even remotely true, they would have gotten Big Bird to host and not Richard Pryor!

[luke]

Mary and Diana were 38 years old at the time!

[Roberta75]

As Marv has said it was the Big Chill era then. Every book I have read about the event said that the Supremes reunion was what most excited people and we all know what happened there and of course Michael stole the show. The excitement that people had was to see The Supremes, the 4 Tops, Martha and Mary etc. All of my friends who were by no means Motown fanatics were looking forward to seeing the classic artists and were not pleased that especially the Marvelettes weren’t there. Suzanne De Passé was ignorant.

The Big Chill and the Big Chill Soundtrack wasn't released until September 1983 and Motown 25 first aired in May 1983 so you and Marvs Big Chill era theory dont cut the mustard.

[Roberta75]

Mary and Diana were 38 years old at the time!

Nope........They had both turned 39 that March in fact Diane Ross turned 39 after the taping that night.

[midnightman]

Mary's birthday is March 6th, Diana's is March 26th.

The show was taped on March 25th. Mary was already 39. Diana turned that age after taping.

Either way, they both were pushing 40. LOL

And they both got overshadowed by some 24-year-old kid with a glitter glove, fedora and moves of a ballerina mixed with James Brown-influenced swag.

It was all about Michael, baby. Not about a group that had ceased to exist for about six years. Lol

[midnightman]

The Big Chill and the Big Chill Soundtrack wasn't released until September 2003 and Motown 25 first aired in May 2003 so you and Marvs Big Chill era theory dont cut the mustard.

I know you meant 1983. ;)

And if anything, the Big Chill did more wonders for MARVIN [[and the Temptations) than Motown itself...

In fact, of the "legends" that performed that night, only Marvin and Michael had the biggest hits of the nation at the time. Diana who? Mary who? Spinners who? Martha who? LOL

Also, going back to Big Chill, I just checked the soundtrack listing. I see two of Marvin, two of the Tempts, one Marvelettes tune, two Miracles tunes, one Four Tops tune and one Martha & the Vandellas tune.

GUESS WHICH ACT WAS MISSING FROM THE SOUNDTRACK...

ANYWAYS... yeah, people are getting their timelines mixed up, I know some of y'all were there and you're getting old but you're not senile, guys, are you?

Like Motown 25 was taped in EARLY '83. Had it not been for Rick James and DeBarge, Motown would've had to be forced to file for bankruptcy. As explained in Diana's E! True Hollywood Story profile, Motown was swallowing in a sea of red ink by 1983. To make matters worse for the label, Marvin Gaye had the biggest international hit of his career with "Sexual Healing" and his album had broke ground for a smoother funk/techno sound that later created new jack swing and Michael Jackson's Thriller was selling like hot cakes.

Meanwhile, Motown tried to revamp the Temptations with the 1982 reunion with Eddie and David and we all know how that turned out. The Rick James duet helped them find new R&B and dance fans but many tuned the entire album out because Rick was only on one track.

Jermaine Jackson had "Let Me Tickle Your Fancy" [[the collaboration with DEVO) but it stopped short of reaching the top ten because Motown's promotional skills were falling apart.

Teena Marie had left Motown in 1982 and later sued them to get out of her contract when they tried to tell her she had more albums to put out. She created the Brockert Initiative and she was free to sign with Epic Records. Switch, the act that some say preceded self-contained bands like Tony, Toni, Tone and Mint Condition was kicked out of Motown after Bobby and Tommy DeBarge abruptly left the band to produce their younger siblings, DeBarge.

I think of all the songs released on Motown in 1982, only Charlene's "Never Been to Me", Stevie's "That Girl" and the Dazz Band's "Let's Whip It" were top ten hits, a downgrade from a label that at one point had at least ten or more top ten records alone in 1965.

Rick James had released Throwin' Down but it wasn't as much an immediate success as Street Songs was and he was still riding high on that. Motown was not having it well in 1982-83.

So Berry doing Motown 25 was a financial move to stabilize the company and give it new energy, hence the title: "Yesterday, today and forever". It was a calculating move: Motown didn't form until 1959. For goodness knows, why have a 25th anniversary when Motown was founded in January of '59?

It was smart on his part to do this. So it's easy to see why non-Motown acts made the show [[Adam Ant, Linda Ronstadt, etc.). In retrospect, yeah, Mary Wells and Martha Reeves deserved more time but they didn't get it. The Marvelettes [[the stars of EARLY Motown) were the only group that was never asked [[not counting the Contours; no casual music listener knew they were a Motown act until after Dirty Dancing). None of the Funk Brothers were asked [[wasn't just Jamerson). But the public didn't know that, they saw the stars in front of them. It would be silly to ask why didn't they include them? "It's business".

The one artist who rejoined his old Motown buddies that took advantage of Berry's gamble was Michael Joe Jackson. Marvin, upon hearing that MJ was gonna do Billie Jean, was steaming that he couldn't convince anyone to let him do Sexual Healing [[which was then a controversial record so that may have played a part in why he couldn't do it; nonetheless, he decided to perform "What's Going On" so it was a good choice on his part). Remember, also, that the big highlight was supposed to be the reunion of some little group from the Brewster Projects and they made headlines about the drama.

BUT by the time it aired on May 16th, no one was thinking of the group from the Brewster Projects, all eyes were on that kid from Gary, Indiana.

And one wonders why I said Michael helped Motown that night indirectly?!

[sup_fan]

well said midnight :)

it's amazing how blinded some people on there get with sentimentality. they easily forget that this is business and that decisions are made nearly 100% around profit and driving revenue. Anyone who thinks Suzanne or Berry put on this production for the warm fuzzies of hanging with their good ole friends and reminiscing in an idiot.

sure we'd have loved to see the marvelettes on here and i do agree it was a shame they weren't even invited. But since when had motown ever [[for right or wrong) cared about that group??? if nothing else, at least motown is consistent.

the fans often get too wrapped up in the dream and the myth of the motown family. that sentiment might have existed between the artists during the early days and into the mid 60s. but don't fool yourself to think the "family sentiment" ever was allowed to cloud berry's judgement.

[Roberta75]

I know you meant 1983. ;)

And if anything, the Big Chill did more wonders for MARVIN [[and the Temptations) than Motown itself...

In fact, of the "legends" that performed that night, only Marvin and Michael had the biggest hits of the nation at the time. Diana who? Mary who? Spinners who? Martha who? LOL

Also, going back to Big Chill, I just checked the soundtrack listing. I see two of Marvin, two of the Tempts, one Marvelettes tune, two Miracles tunes, one Four Tops tune and one Martha & the Vandellas tune.

GUESS WHICH ACT WAS MISSING FROM THE SOUNDTRACK...

ANYWAYS... yeah, people are getting their timelines mixed up, I know some of y'all were there and you're getting old but you're not senile, guys, are you?

Like Motown 25 was taped in EARLY '83. Had it not been for Rick James and DeBarge, Motown would've had to be forced to file for bankruptcy. As explained in Diana's E! True Hollywood Story profile, Motown was swallowing in a sea of red ink by 1983. To make matters worse for the label, Marvin Gaye had the biggest international hit of his career with "Sexual Healing" and his album had broke ground for a smoother funk/techno sound that later created new jack swing and Michael Jackson's Thriller was selling like hot cakes.

Meanwhile, Motown tried to revamp the Temptations with the 1982 reunion with Eddie and David and we all know how that turned out. The Rick James duet helped them find new R&B and dance fans but many tuned the entire album out because Rick was only on one track.

Jermaine Jackson had "Let Me Tickle Your Fancy" [[the collaboration with DEVO) but it stopped short of reaching the top ten because Motown's promotional skills were falling apart.

Teena Marie had left Motown in 1982 and later sued them to get out of her contract when they tried to tell her she had more albums to put out. She created the Brockert Initiative and she was free to sign with Epic Records. Switch, the act that some say preceded self-contained bands like Tony, Toni, Tone and Mint Condition was kicked out of Motown after Bobby and Tommy DeBarge abruptly left the band to produce their younger siblings, DeBarge.

I think of all the songs released on Motown in 1982, only Charlene's "Never Been to Me", Stevie's "That Girl" and the Dazz Band's "Let's Whip It" were top ten hits, a downgrade from a label that at one point had at least ten or more top ten records alone in 1965.

Rick James had released Throwin' Down but it wasn't as much an immediate success as Street Songs was and he was still riding high on that. Motown was not having it well in 1982-83.

So Berry doing Motown 25 was a financial move to stabilize the company and give it new energy, hence the title: "Yesterday, today and forever". It was a calculating move: Motown didn't form until 1959. For goodness knows, why have a 25th anniversary when Motown was founded in January of '59?

It was smart on his part to do this. So it's easy to see why non-Motown acts made the show [[Adam Ant, Linda Ronstadt, etc.). In retrospect, yeah, Mary Wells and Martha Reeves deserved more time but they didn't get it. The Marvelettes [[the stars of EARLY Motown) were the only group that was never asked [[not counting the Contours; no casual music listener knew they were a Motown act until after Dirty Dancing). None of the Funk Brothers were asked [[wasn't just Jamerson). But the public didn't know that, they saw the stars in front of them. It would be silly to ask why didn't they include them? "It's business".

The one artist who rejoined his old Motown buddies that took advantage of Berry's gamble was Michael Joe Jackson. Marvin, upon hearing that MJ was gonna do Billie Jean, was steaming that he couldn't convince anyone to let him do Sexual Healing [[which was then a controversial record so that may have played a part in why he couldn't do it; nonetheless, he decided to perform "What's Going On" so it was a good choice on his part). Remember, also, that the big highlight was supposed to be the reunion of some little group from the Brewster Projects and they made headlines about the drama.

BUT by the time it aired on May 16th, no one was thinking of the group from the Brewster Projects, all eyes were on that kid from Gary, Indiana.

And one wonders why I said Michael helped Motown that night indirectly?!


I did my dear thanks for pointing that that out Im gonna go back an edit to put in the right date.

[lucky2012]

The Funk Brothers should have been there, spotlighted and honored.

[[Gladys Horton should also have been on stage with Martha Reeves, Mary Wells and Jr. Walker, singing Postman).
I absolutely agree that Motown 25 was purely about promotion and business. I'll have to watch it again [[not a totally pleasurable prospect) in case there was even a precious few seconds of recognition of the Funk Brothers. That James Jamerson had to buy a ticket is still beyond belief. Postman was as iconic as Heat Wave, My Guy and Shotgun and also merited a few seconds.

[milven]

Truth be told, Mr. Gordy was livid with her that night. He even barred her from attending the after party across the street from the theater at a shopping mall. LOL!


Please provide a credible link to Mr Gordy barring Diane Ross from attending the party.
Yes, that statement surprised me too. Marv stated it as fact, not opinion. I have read a lot of Motown books and never heard of Berry barring Diana from the after party – or any party. I even did a search, but could not find any info. I am curious to know if it is true and would love it if Marv replied to your request, but Marv is omnipotent here and does not have to back up the statements that he posts as facts. So don't expect a repy

[Roberta75]

Yes, that statement surprised me too. Marv stated it as fact, not opinion. I have read a lot of Motown books and never heard of Berry barring Diana from the after party – or any party. I even did a search, but could not find any info. I am curious to know if it is true and would love it if Marv replied to your request, but Marv is omnipotent here and does not have to back up the statements that he posts as facts. So don't expect a repy

Oh Im not Milven. Many people have asked him for years to provide credible links to many things hes posted like the tall tale about Diana Ross losing all her money to Bernie Madoff. Not one link was ever sent and if you serach google NOTHING comes up. But hey, its all part of his fantasy to to trash the legacy of Miss Diana Ross which is going to impossible given the honors and awards shes picked up over the decades.

To name a few:

Presidential Medal of Freedom
2016
[[https://www.google.com/search?q=Presidential+Medal+of+Freedom&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAONgFuLSz9U3MCwvSq4oUuIAsU0Lk7O1 ZLOTrfQTyxOLUiBkfHlmXl5qkRWYU_yIMYJb4OWPe8JS_pPWnL zG6MmFX72QBheba15JZkmlkBwXnxSSlRoMUjxcSHweAObTX-2SAAAA&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi-4ZiAp4HeAhXaIzQIHah7AN8Qri4IKw)
Kennedy Center Honors
2007
[[https://www.google.com/search?q=Kennedy+Center+Honors&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAONgFuLSz9U3MCwvSq4oUuIEsY1MswyN tGSzk630E8sTi1IgZHx5Zl5eapEVmFP8iDGCW-Dlj3vCUv6T1py8xujJhV-9kAYXm2teSWZJpZAcF58Ukp0aDFI8XEh8HgB44XLxkwAAAA&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi-4ZiAp4HeAhXaIzQIHah7AN8Qri4ILQ)
Grammy Lifetime Achievement Award
2012
[[https://www.google.com/search?q=Grammy+Lifetime+Achievement+Award&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAONgFuLSz9U3MCwvSq4oUuIEsY0rjMvT tGSzk630E8sTi1IgZHx5Zl5eapEVmFP8iDGCW-Dlj3vCUv6T1py8xujJhV-9kAYXm2teSWZJpZAcF58Ukp0aDFI8XEh8HgCTGHWqkwAAAA&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi-4ZiAp4HeAhXaIzQIHah7AN8Qri4ILw)
Honorary César
1976
[[https://www.google.com/search?q=Honorary+C%C3%A9sar&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAONgFuLSz9U3MCwvSq4oUgKzjYoysoyS tGSzk630E8sTi1IgZHx5Zl5eapEVmFP8iDGCW-Dlj3vCUv6T1py8xujJhV-9kAYXm2teSWZJpZAcF58UkqUaDFI8XEh8HgAVRHeAlAAAAA&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi-4ZiAp4HeAhXaIzQIHah7AN8Qri4IMQ)
American Music Award for Favorite Pop/Rock Album
1974 · Lady Sings the Blues
[[https://www.google.com/search?q=American+Music+Award+for+Favorite+Pop/Rock+Album&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAONgFuLSz9U3MCwvSq4oUgKzMzLKLLMt tWSzk630E8sTi1IgZHx5Zl5eapEVmFP8iDGCW-Dlj3vCUv6T1py8xujJhV-9kAYXm2teSWZJpZAcF58UkqUaDFI8XEh8HgCQZQS0lAAAAA&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi-4ZiAp4HeAhXaIzQIHah7AN8Qri4IMw)
Golden Globe Award for Best New Star of the Year – Actress
1973 · Lady Sings the Blues
[[https://www.google.com/search?q=Golden+Globe+Award+for+New+Star+of+the+Ye ar+%E2%80%93+Actress&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAONgFuLSz9U3MCwvSq4oUgKzjTNyTYqy tWSzk630E8sTi1IgZHx5Zl5eapEVmFP8iDGCW-Dlj3vCUv6T1py8xujJhV-9kAYXm2teSWZJpZAcF58UkqUaDFI8XEh8HgBwh8bIlAAAAA&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi-4ZiAp4HeAhXaIzQIHah7AN8Qri4INQ)
BET Lifetime Achievement Award
2007
[[https://www.google.com/search?q=BET+Lifetime+Achievement+Award&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAONgFuLSz9U3MCwvSq4oUgKzzcpNKuMr tGSzk630E8sTi1IgZHx5Zl5eapEVmFP8iDGCW-Dlj3vCUv6T1py8xujJhV-9kAYXm2teSWZJpZAcF58UkqUaDFI8XEh8HgBllGXalAAAAA&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi-4ZiAp4HeAhXaIzQIHah7AN8Qri4INw)
American Music Award for Favorite Soul/R&B Female Artist
1983, 1981, 1975 [[https://www.google.com/search?q=American+Music+Award+for+Favorite+Soul/R%26B+Female+Artist&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAONgFuLSz9U3MCwvSq4oUuIEsZOz0y2r tGSzk630E8sTi1IgZHx5Zl5eapEVmFP8iDGCW-Dlj3vCUv6T1py8xujJhV-9kAYXm2teSWZJpZAcF58Ukp0aDFI8XEh8HgCz9CGFkwAAAA&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi-4ZiAp4HeAhXaIzQIHah7AN8Qri4IOQ)

Special Tony Award
1977
[[https://www.google.com/search?q=Special+Tony+Award&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAONgFuLSz9U3MCwvSq4oUgKzjQqzsy3j tWSzk630E8sTi1IgZHx5Zl5eapEVmFP8iDGCW-Dlj3vCUv6T1py8xujJhV-9kAYXm2teSWZJpZAcF58UkqUaDFI8XEh8HgB5hY84lAAAAA&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi-4ZiAp4HeAhXaIzQIHah7AN8Qri4IOw)
American Music Award for Favorite Soul/R&B Single
1981 · Upside Down
[[https://www.google.com/search?q=American+Music+Award+for+Favorite+Soul/R+and+B+Single&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAONgFuLSz9U3MCwvSq4oUgKzq5KyMyqS tWSzk630E8sTi1IgZHx5Zl5eapEVmFP8iDGCW-Dlj3vCUv6T1py8xujJhV-9kAYXm2teSWZJpZAcF58UkqUaDFI8XEh8HgBD2YSUlAAAAA&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi-4ZiAp4HeAhXaIzQIHah7AN8Qri4IPQ)
Soul Train Music Award for Heritage Award – Career Achievement
1995
[[https://www.google.com/search?q=Soul+Train+Music+Award+for+Heritage+Award +%E2%80%93+Career+Achievement&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAONgFuLSz9U3MCwvSq4oUuIEsdOSK5KM tWSzk630E8sTi1IgZHx5Zl5eapEVmFP8iDGCW-Dlj3vCUv6T1py8xujJhV-9kAYXm2teSWZJpZAcF58Ukp0aDFI8XEh8HgBHVfGNkwAAAA&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi-4ZiAp4HeAhXaIzQIHah7AN8Qri4IPw)
NAACP Image Award for Outstanding Actress in a Motion Picture
1972 · Lady Sings the Blues

[[https://www.google.com/search?q=NAACP+Image+Award+for+Outstanding+Actress +in+a+Motion+Picture&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAONgFuLSz9U3MCwvSq4oUuIEsY3SjNIt tGSzk630E8sTi1IgZHx5Zl5eapEVmFP8iDGCW-Dlj3vCUv6T1py8xujJhV-9kAYXm2teSWZJpZAcF58Ukp0aDFI8XEh8HgD7DvHpkwAAAA&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi-4ZiAp4HeAhXaIzQIHah7AN8Qri4IQQ)
World Music Legend Award for Outstanding Contribution To The Music Industry
1996
[[https://www.google.com/search?q=Outstanding+Contribution+To+The+Music+Ind ustry&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAONgFuLSz9U3MCwvSq4oUgKzK82LjMwN tWSzk630E8sTi1IgZHx5Zl5eapEVmFP8iDGCW-Dlj3vCUv6T1py8xujJhV-9kAYXm2teSWZJpZAcF58UkqUaDFI8XEh8HgAXiGF_lAAAAA&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi-4ZiAp4HeAhXaIzQIHah7AN8Qri4IQw)
TV Land Television's Greatest Music Moment Award
2006 · Diana Ross Live from Central Park

[[https://www.google.com/search?q=TV+Land+Television%27s+Greatest+Music+Mom ent+Award&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAONgFuLSz9U3MCwvSq4oUgKzK8ssKkuS tGSzk630E8sTi1IgZHx5Zl5eapEVmFP8iDGCW-Dlj3vCUv6T1py8xujJhV-9kAYXm2teSWZJpZAcF58UkqUaDFI8XEh8HgAviZC9lAAAAA&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi-4ZiAp4HeAhXaIzQIHah7AN8Qri4IRQ)
NME Award for World Female Singer
1974, 1973, 1972, ...
[[https://www.google.com/search?q=World+Female+Singer&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAONgFuLSz9U3MCwvSq4oUgKz48vNDA1z tWSzk630E8sTi1IgZHx5Zl5eapEVmFP8iDGCW-Dlj3vCUv6T1py8xujJhV-9kAYXm2teSWZJpZAcF58UkqUaDFI8XEh8HgByQHqIlAAAAA&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi-4ZiAp4HeAhXaIzQIHah7AN8Qri4IRw)
American Music Award for Lifetime Achievement Award
2017



[[https://www.google.com/search?q=American+Music+Award+for+Lifetime+Achieve ment+Award&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAONgFuLSz9U3MCwvSq4oUgKzq5KyCguT tWSzk630E8sTi1IgZHx5Zl5eapEVmFP8iDGCW-Dlj3vCUv6T1py8xujJhV-9kAYXm2teSWZJpZAcF58UkqUaDFI8XEh8HgDFqZ6QlAAAAA&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi-4ZiAp4HeAhXaIzQIHah7AN8Qri4ISQ)

[jobeterob]

Oh Im not Milven. Many people have asked him for years to provide credible links to many things hes posted like the tall tale about Diana Ross losing all her money to Bernie Madoff. Not one link was ever sent and if you serach google NOTHING comes up. But hey, its all part of his fantasy to to trash the legacy of Miss Diana Ross which is going to impossible given the honors and awards shes picked up over the decades.

To name a few:

Presidential Medal of Freedom
2016
[[https://www.google.com/search?q=Presidential+Medal+of+Freedom&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAONgFuLSz9U3MCwvSq4oUuIAsU0Lk7O1 ZLOTrfQTyxOLUiBkfHlmXl5qkRWYU_yIMYJb4OWPe8JS_pPWnL zG6MmFX72QBheba15JZkmlkBwXnxSSlRoMUjxcSHweAObTX-2SAAAA&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi-4ZiAp4HeAhXaIzQIHah7AN8Qri4IKw)
Kennedy Center Honors
2007
[[https://www.google.com/search?q=Kennedy+Center+Honors&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAONgFuLSz9U3MCwvSq4oUuIEsY1MswyN tGSzk630E8sTi1IgZHx5Zl5eapEVmFP8iDGCW-Dlj3vCUv6T1py8xujJhV-9kAYXm2teSWZJpZAcF58Ukp0aDFI8XEh8HgB44XLxkwAAAA&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi-4ZiAp4HeAhXaIzQIHah7AN8Qri4ILQ)
Grammy Lifetime Achievement Award
2012
[[https://www.google.com/search?q=Grammy+Lifetime+Achievement+Award&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAONgFuLSz9U3MCwvSq4oUuIEsY0rjMvT tGSzk630E8sTi1IgZHx5Zl5eapEVmFP8iDGCW-Dlj3vCUv6T1py8xujJhV-9kAYXm2teSWZJpZAcF58Ukp0aDFI8XEh8HgCTGHWqkwAAAA&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi-4ZiAp4HeAhXaIzQIHah7AN8Qri4ILw)
Honorary César
1976
[[https://www.google.com/search?q=Honorary+C%C3%A9sar&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAONgFuLSz9U3MCwvSq4oUgKzjYoysoyS tGSzk630E8sTi1IgZHx5Zl5eapEVmFP8iDGCW-Dlj3vCUv6T1py8xujJhV-9kAYXm2teSWZJpZAcF58UkqUaDFI8XEh8HgAVRHeAlAAAAA&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi-4ZiAp4HeAhXaIzQIHah7AN8Qri4IMQ)
American Music Award for Favorite Pop/Rock Album
1974 · Lady Sings the Blues
[[https://www.google.com/search?q=American+Music+Award+for+Favorite+Pop/Rock+Album&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAONgFuLSz9U3MCwvSq4oUgKzMzLKLLMt tWSzk630E8sTi1IgZHx5Zl5eapEVmFP8iDGCW-Dlj3vCUv6T1py8xujJhV-9kAYXm2teSWZJpZAcF58UkqUaDFI8XEh8HgCQZQS0lAAAAA&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi-4ZiAp4HeAhXaIzQIHah7AN8Qri4IMw)
Golden Globe Award for Best New Star of the Year – Actress
1973 · Lady Sings the Blues
[[https://www.google.com/search?q=Golden+Globe+Award+for+New+Star+of+the+Ye ar+%E2%80%93+Actress&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAONgFuLSz9U3MCwvSq4oUgKzjTNyTYqy tWSzk630E8sTi1IgZHx5Zl5eapEVmFP8iDGCW-Dlj3vCUv6T1py8xujJhV-9kAYXm2teSWZJpZAcF58UkqUaDFI8XEh8HgBwh8bIlAAAAA&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi-4ZiAp4HeAhXaIzQIHah7AN8Qri4INQ)
BET Lifetime Achievement Award
2007
[[https://www.google.com/search?q=BET+Lifetime+Achievement+Award&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAONgFuLSz9U3MCwvSq4oUgKzzcpNKuMr tGSzk630E8sTi1IgZHx5Zl5eapEVmFP8iDGCW-Dlj3vCUv6T1py8xujJhV-9kAYXm2teSWZJpZAcF58UkqUaDFI8XEh8HgBllGXalAAAAA&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi-4ZiAp4HeAhXaIzQIHah7AN8Qri4INw)
American Music Award for Favorite Soul/R&B Female Artist
1983, 1981, 1975 [[https://www.google.com/search?q=American+Music+Award+for+Favorite+Soul/R%26B+Female+Artist&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAONgFuLSz9U3MCwvSq4oUuIEsZOz0y2r tGSzk630E8sTi1IgZHx5Zl5eapEVmFP8iDGCW-Dlj3vCUv6T1py8xujJhV-9kAYXm2teSWZJpZAcF58Ukp0aDFI8XEh8HgCz9CGFkwAAAA&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi-4ZiAp4HeAhXaIzQIHah7AN8Qri4IOQ)

Special Tony Award
1977
[[https://www.google.com/search?q=Special+Tony+Award&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAONgFuLSz9U3MCwvSq4oUgKzjQqzsy3j tWSzk630E8sTi1IgZHx5Zl5eapEVmFP8iDGCW-Dlj3vCUv6T1py8xujJhV-9kAYXm2teSWZJpZAcF58UkqUaDFI8XEh8HgB5hY84lAAAAA&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi-4ZiAp4HeAhXaIzQIHah7AN8Qri4IOw)
American Music Award for Favorite Soul/R&B Single
1981 · Upside Down
[[https://www.google.com/search?q=American+Music+Award+for+Favorite+Soul/R+and+B+Single&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAONgFuLSz9U3MCwvSq4oUgKzq5KyMyqS tWSzk630E8sTi1IgZHx5Zl5eapEVmFP8iDGCW-Dlj3vCUv6T1py8xujJhV-9kAYXm2teSWZJpZAcF58UkqUaDFI8XEh8HgBD2YSUlAAAAA&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi-4ZiAp4HeAhXaIzQIHah7AN8Qri4IPQ)
Soul Train Music Award for Heritage Award – Career Achievement
1995
[[https://www.google.com/search?q=Soul+Train+Music+Award+for+Heritage+Award +%E2%80%93+Career+Achievement&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAONgFuLSz9U3MCwvSq4oUuIEsdOSK5KM tWSzk630E8sTi1IgZHx5Zl5eapEVmFP8iDGCW-Dlj3vCUv6T1py8xujJhV-9kAYXm2teSWZJpZAcF58Ukp0aDFI8XEh8HgBHVfGNkwAAAA&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi-4ZiAp4HeAhXaIzQIHah7AN8Qri4IPw)
NAACP Image Award for Outstanding Actress in a Motion Picture
1972 · Lady Sings the Blues

[[https://www.google.com/search?q=NAACP+Image+Award+for+Outstanding+Actress +in+a+Motion+Picture&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAONgFuLSz9U3MCwvSq4oUuIEsY3SjNIt tGSzk630E8sTi1IgZHx5Zl5eapEVmFP8iDGCW-Dlj3vCUv6T1py8xujJhV-9kAYXm2teSWZJpZAcF58Ukp0aDFI8XEh8HgD7DvHpkwAAAA&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi-4ZiAp4HeAhXaIzQIHah7AN8Qri4IQQ)
World Music Legend Award for Outstanding Contribution To The Music Industry
1996
[[https://www.google.com/search?q=Outstanding+Contribution+To+The+Music+Ind ustry&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAONgFuLSz9U3MCwvSq4oUgKzK82LjMwN tWSzk630E8sTi1IgZHx5Zl5eapEVmFP8iDGCW-Dlj3vCUv6T1py8xujJhV-9kAYXm2teSWZJpZAcF58UkqUaDFI8XEh8HgAXiGF_lAAAAA&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi-4ZiAp4HeAhXaIzQIHah7AN8Qri4IQw)
TV Land Television's Greatest Music Moment Award
2006 · Diana Ross Live from Central Park

[[https://www.google.com/search?q=TV+Land+Television%27s+Greatest+Music+Mom ent+Award&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAONgFuLSz9U3MCwvSq4oUgKzK8ssKkuS tGSzk630E8sTi1IgZHx5Zl5eapEVmFP8iDGCW-Dlj3vCUv6T1py8xujJhV-9kAYXm2teSWZJpZAcF58UkqUaDFI8XEh8HgAviZC9lAAAAA&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi-4ZiAp4HeAhXaIzQIHah7AN8Qri4IRQ)
NME Award for World Female Singer
1974, 1973, 1972, ...
[[https://www.google.com/search?q=World+Female+Singer&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAONgFuLSz9U3MCwvSq4oUgKz48vNDA1z tWSzk630E8sTi1IgZHx5Zl5eapEVmFP8iDGCW-Dlj3vCUv6T1py8xujJhV-9kAYXm2teSWZJpZAcF58UkqUaDFI8XEh8HgByQHqIlAAAAA&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi-4ZiAp4HeAhXaIzQIHah7AN8Qri4IRw)
American Music Award for Lifetime Achievement Award
2017



[[https://www.google.com/search?q=American+Music+Award+for+Lifetime+Achieve ment+Award&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAONgFuLSz9U3MCwvSq4oUgKzq5KyCguT tWSzk630E8sTi1IgZHx5Zl5eapEVmFP8iDGCW-Dlj3vCUv6T1py8xujJhV-9kAYXm2teSWZJpZAcF58UkqUaDFI8XEh8HgDFqZ6QlAAAAA&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi-4ZiAp4HeAhXaIzQIHah7AN8Qri4ISQ)




Also, the Female Artist of the Century!

[sup_fan]

Yes, that statement surprised me too. Marv stated it as fact, not opinion. I have read a lot of Motown books and never heard of Berry barring Diana from the after party – or any party. I even did a search, but could not find any info. I am curious to know if it is true and would love it if Marv replied to your request, but Marv is omnipotent here and does not have to back up the statements that he posts as facts. So don't expect a repy

It wasn’t Diana that barred but mary. The one he thinks is without fault or blemish 🙄

[theboyfromxtown]

Was that when Mary Wilson ran off with Ian Levines $10,000. He was so upset.

Mary wasn't the only one who took an advance and didn't follow it through.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHfD1101_uo

[theboyfromxtown]

I never read anywhere that they were invited and failed to appear. Like poor Marv Johnson ---- he was not invited and totally overlooked.

I can think of another act.

[milven]

Truth be told, Mr. Gordy was livid with her[Diana Ross] that night. He even barred her from attending the after party across the street from the theater at a shopping mall. LOL!



Please provide a credible link to Mr Gordy barring Diane Ross from attending the party.



Yes, that statement surprised me too. Marv stated it as fact, not opinion. I have read a lot of Motown books and never heard of Berry barring Diana from the after party – or any party. I even did a search, but could not find any info. I am curious to know if it is true and would love it if Marv replied to your request, but Marv is omnipotent here and does not have to back up the statements that he posts as facts. So don't expect a repy


Oh Im not Milven. Many people have asked him for years to provide credible links to many things hes posted like the tall tale about Diana Ross losing all her money to Bernie Madoff. Not one link was ever sent and if you serach google NOTHING comes up. But hey, its all part of his fantasy to to trash the legacy of Miss Diana Ross which is going to impossible given the honors and awards shes picked up over the decades.



It wasn’t Diana that barred but mary. The one he thinks is without fault or blemish 🙄

Well, to read that Berry banned Diana from anything sounded very odd. If true, Marv will answer. If not, he will ignore the question. In this era of fake news and alternative facts, we should be used to this type of info, but in any case, Marv is allowed to post whatever he wants here without consequences.

[milven]

Getting back on topic, I know it is all about the ratings, and perhaps some of the early acts would not have been ratings getters , but there were some huge acts in the early days of Motown, such as Martha and the Vandellas, Mary Wells, Marvellettes, Miracles. Martha, Mary and Marvellettes should have been there prominantly.

[midnightman]

Getting back on topic, I know it is all about the ratings, and perhaps some of the early acts would not have been ratings getters , but there were some huge acts in the early days of Motown, such as Martha and the Vandellas, Mary Wells, Marvellettes, Miracles. Martha, Mary and Marvellettes should have been there prominantly.

Yeah but they were almost non-existent in 1983, which was the point. By 1990, there were more interest in them because Motown's classic brand was starting to make money from CDs off their songs. But in March 1983, when Motown 25 was taped, most of these acts were either retired or had played at low-rent bars to make ends meet. I think of this bunch, only Martha and Mary was making some coins off of playing classic oldies in decent venues.

[marv2]

Well, to read that Berry banned Diana from anything sounded very odd. If true, Marv will answer. If not, he will ignore the question. In this era of fake news and alternative facts, we should be used to this type of info, but in any case, Marv is allowed to post whatever he wants here without consequences.

Don't try to bait me. I already told you.

[milven]

Don't try to bait me. I already told you.

Yes, you told me. And if I told you something a lttle off , like James Brown was banned from the Apollo Theatre , wouldn't you ask me to explain or where I heard this info?

That's what I am asking. And you know that. But of course, you do not have to answer as you are omnipotent on this board so you can get by with just anwering "I already told you"

[gman]

Ok....fact is, there was a lot to be squeezed into one evening, let alone one TV special.
Ideally, the Motown 25th Salute..it would have been better to do summer replacement or multiple 2 hour specials over the course of a few weeks...Grand Debut/ Ending week shows..Split the headliners....only one non label guest star/newer act per show....Mary Martha and Jr could have been given deserved more time. And everyone that should have been included [[Marvelettes, Kim, Brenda, Rare Earth, RD Taylor, Gladys Knight, Jimmy Ruffin, Barrett Strong, Edwin Starr) could have been featured performing their key contributions. The problem was there was way too much talent and successful, influential material to include in 1 shot....and Tony Bennett should have performed For Once In My Life....that is IMHO the Quessential non label treatment of any Motown song.