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luke
10-02-2018, 09:59 PM
I recall Tammi being mentioned to replace Diana. Was this just fans’ opinions or were there some serious discussions about this before she became ill?

marv2
10-02-2018, 10:18 PM
I recall Tammi being mentioned to replace Diana. Was this just fans’ opinions or were there some serious discussions about this before she became ill?

I've never heard much about this other than her name was mentioned in passing and then quickly disqualified due to her personal health. It was like she was just a consideration.

sup_fan
10-03-2018, 12:10 AM
My understanding is that while she might have been an ideal candidate by the time they were legitimately looking for a replacement in early 69 she was far too ill to ever have been a serious candidate

marv2
10-03-2018, 12:22 AM
I personally never thought Tammi Terrell was a good candidate for the Supremes. I do not think she would have stay with the group, any group very long. If I had to pick a female singer already with Motown, it would have probably been Brenda Holloway. She not only had the talent, but the personality to get along well with others.

midnightman
10-03-2018, 01:06 AM
That was NEVER gonna happen. And Tammi was near death at the time.

I think it came from someone online who had a fantasy of one of the Motown female acts that never got on to be a potential replacement.

Tammi was never a serious option for replacement but she probably thought being in the group was beneath her at this point. She had been in her solo career since she started singing. Always independent.

Just... NO.

marv2
10-03-2018, 01:25 AM
That was NEVER gonna happen. And Tammi was near death at the time.

I think it came from someone online who had a fantasy of one of the Motown female acts that never got on to be a potential replacement.

Tammi was never a serious option for replacement but she probably thought being in the group was beneath her at this point. She had been in her solo career since she started singing. Always independent.

Just... NO.

That's weird she would think that. The Supremes were one of the biggest groups in the World at that time. Tammi Terrell had no big hits outside of the duets she did with Marvin Gaye. She had other issues........many of them that would not have made her a good fit for the Supremes. Outside of Motown fans, she is largely forgotten, whereas the Supremes are still well remembered by many people.

marv2
10-03-2018, 01:28 AM
I don't even remember seeing Tammi Terrell on TV.

TheMotownManiac
10-03-2018, 04:52 AM
I recall Tammi being mentioned to replace Diana. Was this just fans’ opinions or were there some serious discussions about this before she became ill?

No one would be a better candidate than Tammi - she was PERFECT .........except for two things:

1) She was way too much of a diva to work in a group - she and Mary would have killed each other in six months.

2) She was completely incapable of working for over two years prior to Jan 14, 1970.

She was cute, vocally spot on, and really the only other Motown female with genuine star quality charisma. Even if she had been in perfect health, I doubt she would have wound up on Ed Sullivan in Feb 70 doing Up The Ladder.

TheMotownManiac
10-03-2018, 04:55 AM
I personally never thought Tammi Terrell was a good candidate for the Supremes. I do not think she would have stay with the group, any group very long. If I had to pick a female singer already with Motown, it would have probably been Brenda Holloway. She not only had the talent, but the personality to get along well with others.

I never thought of Brenda - she had the goods for sure. Very interesting idea. I think Ross fans would have preferred her over Jean.

sup_fan
10-03-2018, 10:27 AM
i think [[assuming she was not ill) that Tammi might have been an obvious choice in that she had a similar, unique, nasal sound to Diana. i've not heard much about her from a personality standpoint other than the little bit we hear about her tumultuous relationship with David Ruffin. and in Martha's bio, she's not very complimentary to her either.

In another Motown book Scherrie is quoted with saying that someone once threw her name into the mix of potential diana replacements. but then someone said "no she wouldn't be interested" That could have been interesting

Considering Brenda was long gone from motown by this time, i find it hard to believe she would have been a candidate. and frankly i'm not overly fond of her singing. just person opinion

although she too was long gone, what about Kim Weston?

Thornton
10-03-2018, 11:03 AM
I've never gotten the impression that Tammi was seriously considered, but she would have been my ideal replacement. I was sold once I heard her cover "Baby Love" during her Roostertail concert. Syreeta was probably the most realistic choice if they were going to hire someone already at Motown.

reese
10-03-2018, 11:11 AM
Knowing her health status, Tammi couldn't have been under serious consideration. Perhaps Motown threw that tidbit out so that there would be some positive talk about Tammi rather than the true graveness of her condition. After all, they were still releasing her records during this period as well.

lucky2012
10-03-2018, 12:00 PM
Knowing her health status, Tammi couldn't have been under serious consideration. Perhaps Motown threw that tidbit out so that there would be some positive talk about Tammi rather than the true graveness of her condition. After all, they were still releasing her records during this period as well.
I agree.
If not for her health issues, Tammi Terrell would have been the best choice at the time. She was already well-known from the popular and successful Marvin duets. She had a familiar and similar voice. She was young and attractive and had a positive public image. The post-Diana Supremes' image, talent and potential would have been assured. The only unknown factors were Tammi's personality and ambitions. Would she consider it a step down? I wonder how Frank Wilson & others would have produced the group?

marv2
10-03-2018, 12:12 PM
Knowing her health status, Tammi couldn't have been under serious consideration. Perhaps Motown threw that tidbit out so that there would be some positive talk about Tammi rather than the true graveness of her condition. After all, they were still releasing her records during this period as well.

Yeah. Did you know that Tammi Terrell's mother banned everyone from Motown except Marvin Gaye from attending her funeral? She felt Motown did nothing but exploit Tammi as much as possible.

marv2
10-03-2018, 12:14 PM
Thank God that Mr. Gordy found Jean Terrell. She was a better singer than everyone we mentioned here and she turned out to be absolutely perfect for the Supremes at that time in my opinion!

luke
10-03-2018, 12:21 PM
Mary has commented on Tammi and the Supremes saying she was very lively and liked to kid around a lot or something to that effect but she was too ill. From what I’ve read about her I don’t think her personality would have fit into the Supremes... they were just coming off Diana Ross! Brenda ... hmmm...interesting.

RanRan79
10-03-2018, 01:05 PM
Tammi was a fan's opinion. If I recall correctly in the Flo Ballard scrapbook, she clipped out a small article from a magazine [[Soul?) that mentioned that she was a front runner for Diana's position if fans had their way, while Tammi Terrell was also a name that fans were passing around. Nothing in the "article" suggested that any of this was floating around official Motown circles.

In a perfect world Tammi would have been a perfect replacement. She had a voice that had similar qualities as Ross but still distinctive of her own personality. She was gorgeous, charismatic, fashionable, real star quality. And she had an edge that Diana lacked [[to the public), which might have been better received in the changing world from the 60s to the 70s. Of course we know that Tammi was ill and never would've been in consideration. I also think she would have never had the mindset to go from solo artist with hits [[even as a duet) to the lead singer of a group. The in thing was to spring from a group into a solo artist, not the other way around.

Plus didn't someone write a book saying that Florence and Mary couldn't stand Tammi? Was it a book on David Ruffin? Besides, Mary and Cindy were getting rid of the likes of Diana Ross and all the challenges she brought to the personal dynamics of the group. No way would they have considered replacing her with someone who could potentially bring the same kind of discord.

RanRan79
10-03-2018, 01:19 PM
Considering Brenda was long gone from motown by this time, i find it hard to believe she would have been a candidate. and frankly i'm not overly fond of her singing. just person opinion

although she too was long gone, what about Kim Weston?

Sup Fan I'm done with you. Not fond of Brenda's singing? Taking shots at Smokey's lyrics? I'm blocking your ass right now.:p

But seriously, Brenda was gone of course, but had she still been with Motown I don't think it would've worked because I just don't think it would be easy for any woman [[or man) to have any measure of accomplishment as a single artist and then transition into the front person of a group. Vocally Brenda sounds nothing like Ross, but IMO she had the same kind of abilities: the lyrical personality, the ability to sing MOR and sound comfortable doing it, the vocal ability to appeal to all kinds of people. So in that regard she would have been a good Ross replacement. Plus she had a star look to herself that I think would've fit in.

Kim Weston? No.

How about this shocker: what if instead of transitioning Wanda Rogers into a solo Marvelette under the name the Marvelettes, Motown had officially retired the Marvelettes name and sent Wanda to the Supremes to replace Diana? Of course in reality we know Wanda had addiction issues that would have eliminated her from the running period. I'm talking about a scenario where her addiction issues weren't part of the equation. In my opinion, and I've said this in this forum before, Wanda Rogers had all of those tangibles that made the public take notice of Diana when the camera was on, and Wanda had a voice that was instantly recognizable. In other words, Wanda was a poor man's Diana Ross. The one thing that I think would've worked against her as Ross' replacement was that I'm not convinced Wanda could do the Vegasy standards or be an effective show hostess. Of course this could have worked to her advantage if the Supremes dropped the standards completely and went head first into the direction they should have gone in with the new decade.

RanRan79
10-03-2018, 01:21 PM
Mary has commented on Tammi and the Supremes saying she was very lively and liked to kid around a lot or something to that effect but she was too ill. From what I’ve read about her I don’t think her personality would have fit into the Supremes... they were just coming off Diana Ross! Brenda ... hmmm...interesting.

Didn't Mary call Tammi a liar? If she thought that, surely she wouldn't have wanted her in the group.

marv2
10-03-2018, 01:42 PM
Mary has commented on Tammi and the Supremes saying she was very lively and liked to kid around a lot or something to that effect but she was too ill. From what I’ve read about her I don’t think her personality would have fit into the Supremes... they were just coming off Diana Ross! Brenda ... hmmm...interesting.

She would have not fit into the Supremes well at all. People here have gone into great detail about some of Florence Ballard's issues that got her fired from the Supremes. Well, Tammi Terrell makes Florence Ballard look like a Nun or a schoolgirl! Watch her Unsung episode and read between the lines and also the biography written about her in the last 10 years. She was a mess!

blackguy69
10-03-2018, 03:45 PM
I’ve never read that Mary and Cindy didn’t like tammi but I did read that they didn’t like Syreeta

sup_fan
10-03-2018, 05:11 PM
She would have not fit into the Supremes well at all. People here have gone into great detail about some of Florence Ballard's issues that got her fired from the Supremes. Well, Tammi Terrell makes Florence Ballard look like a Nun or a schoolgirl! Watch her Unsung episode and read between the lines and also the biography written about her in the last 10 years. She was a mess!

Martha was very selective in what she said about Tammi. she sort of alludes to the fact that Tammi was a bit of a "wild" girl. not sure if it was drugs, sex or what. But martha's viewpoint was that she did not really like Tammi and therefore limited her time with her.

of course i never met Tammi so i don't really know. my thoughts are the Sups needed not only an attractive, personable singer that could provide strong lead vocals but they also need someone that could be a 3rd partner and help shape and guide the direction of the group. I don't know if tammi would have filled that last part really. to go from solo and duet work to group, sharing the group leadership with Mary. i could see that being a challenge

midnightman
10-03-2018, 05:48 PM
That's weird she would think that. The Supremes were one of the biggest groups in the World at that time. Tammi Terrell had no big hits outside of the duets she did with Marvin Gaye. She had other issues........many of them that would not have made her a good fit for the Supremes. Outside of Motown fans, she is largely forgotten, whereas the Supremes are still well remembered by many people.

Tammi had enough drama to suddenly join a group no matter how huge they were. Tammi never struck me as someone who wanted to chase shadows, she wanted to make her own shadow, so to say. Like I said, a very independent woman.

midnightman
10-03-2018, 05:50 PM
I don't even remember seeing Tammi Terrell on TV.

She was on three shows with Marvin:

The Hy Lit show in 1967 [[that clip has since become legendary)
The Today Show [[the footage hasn't been seen but we've seen a couple of pictures of them on it)
And The Tonight Show [[think the Tonight Show was the last one before her illness)

So before any of our times.

midnightman
10-03-2018, 05:57 PM
Martha was very selective in what she said about Tammi. she sort of alludes to the fact that Tammi was a bit of a "wild" girl. not sure if it was drugs, sex or what. But martha's viewpoint was that she did not really like Tammi and therefore limited her time with her.

of course i never met Tammi so i don't really know. my thoughts are the Sups needed not only an attractive, personable singer that could provide strong lead vocals but they also need someone that could be a 3rd partner and help shape and guide the direction of the group. I don't know if tammi would have filled that last part really. to go from solo and duet work to group, sharing the group leadership with Mary. i could see that being a challenge

I think in Unsung they mentioned she was in the party scene a lot before her illness. Another reason she wouldn't be considered for a spot in the world's most famous girl group.

reese
10-03-2018, 06:25 PM
She was on three shows with Marvin:

The Hy Lit show in 1967 [[that clip has since become legendary)
The Today Show [[the footage hasn't been seen but we've seen a couple of pictures of them on it)
And The Tonight Show [[think the Tonight Show was the last one before her illness)

So before any of our times.

She and Marvin also appeared on "Expo'67," the familiar clip where they are singing outside. Too bad there is no other footage. Although I wonder just how much more TV [[if any) they did after her collapse on stage.

blackguy69
10-03-2018, 06:55 PM
The tonight show clip was on YouTube

marv2
10-03-2018, 08:02 PM
She was on three shows with Marvin:

The Hy Lit show in 1967 [[that clip has since become legendary)
The Today Show [[the footage hasn't been seen but we've seen a couple of pictures of them on it)
And The Tonight Show [[think the Tonight Show was the last one before her illness)

So before any of our times.

Nope not before my time. It's just that I was not living in Philly in 1967 to catch the local broadcast of Hy Lit's show. If it was later syndicated, we did not get it in Detroit.. The Today Show came on while I was getting ready for school so I pretty sure I would not have seen it and the Tonight Show would have been on past my bedtime in the 60s. I never saw Tammi Terrell on television whereas the Supremes were on every week it seemed on one show or another.

marv2
10-03-2018, 08:04 PM
The tonight show clip was on YouTube

Yeah I saw that. I am hoping more of the old Tonight Shows with Johnny Carson will surface in good condition.

marv2
10-03-2018, 08:08 PM
I’ve never read that Mary and Cindy didn’t like tammi but I did read that they didn’t like Syreeta

Mary said they liked her just find,but that had nothing to do with her becoming a Supreme. She was never presented as a candidate to join the group in the first place. Tammi had lived a hard life for someone that young. She had too many issues to fit into a group and the type of schedule the Supremes had would not have worked well with her.

marv2
10-03-2018, 08:10 PM
I think in Unsung they mentioned she was in the party scene a lot before her illness. Another reason she wouldn't be considered for a spot in the world's most famous girl group.

Tammi Terrell had been "out there" in the life since she was 14 years old. She use to go with James Brown and he use to beat her up a lot. I always wonder what exactly did she do to make men want to physically harm her?

johnjeb
10-03-2018, 09:12 PM
I think the Expo 67 performance is from the Today Show.

Bluebrock
10-04-2018, 02:44 AM
Tammi Terrell had been "out there" in the life since she was 14 years old. She use to go with James Brown and he use to beat her up a lot. I always wonder what exactly did she do to make men want to physically harm her?
Maybe we should look more closely at the men who wanted to "physically harm" her? There are two sides to every story and these guys hardly led a virtuous life however talented they may have been.

rovereab
10-04-2018, 06:21 AM
She was on three shows with Marvin:

The Hy Lit show in 1967 [[that clip has since become legendary)
The Today Show [[the footage hasn't been seen but we've seen a couple of pictures of them on it)
And The Tonight Show [[think the Tonight Show was the last one before her illness)

So before any of our times.

Are there links for the above appearances that we can use please?

Thanks.

milven
10-04-2018, 07:56 AM
Are there links for the above appearances that we can use please?

Thanks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pr4A2k6jFQk

luke
10-04-2018, 08:53 AM
They were wonderful. She was a natural. She could have been a great comedienne too I imagine.

reese
10-04-2018, 09:08 AM
Expo '67


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7NnsL3rS2o

reese
10-04-2018, 09:11 AM
The Hy Lit Show


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8IYJBbPEHE

marv2
10-04-2018, 12:17 PM
Martha was very selective in what she said about Tammi. she sort of alludes to the fact that Tammi was a bit of a "wild" girl. not sure if it was drugs, sex or what. But martha's viewpoint was that she did not really like Tammi and therefore limited her time with her.

of course i never met Tammi so i don't really know. my thoughts are the Sups needed not only an attractive, personable singer that could provide strong lead vocals but they also need someone that could be a 3rd partner and help shape and guide the direction of the group. I don't know if tammi would have filled that last part really. to go from solo and duet work to group, sharing the group leadership with Mary. i could see that being a challenge

It was drugs and sex....street life.

Roberta75
10-04-2018, 12:30 PM
I always wonder what exactly did she do to make men want to physically harm her?

Isnt that like wondering what a exactly a woman did to "make" a man rape her?

Maybe the men who beat Tammi up were just abusive men who didnt respect women and had no problem beating her which makes them pigs IMO. Thank God for #metoo

marv2
10-04-2018, 12:40 PM
Maybe we should look more closely at the men who wanted to "physically harm" her? There are two sides to every story and these guys hardly led a virtuous life however talented they may have been.

The common thread was Tammi Terrell and since this thread is about her, I want to focus on Tammi. What made her attracted to men who would beat her?

Roberta75
10-04-2018, 12:44 PM
The common thread was Tammi Terrell and since this thread is about her, I want to focus on Tammi. What made her attracted to men who would beat her?

No......what YOU wondered was "what exactly did she do to make men want to physically harm her" and those are YOUR words.

bradsupremes
10-04-2018, 01:36 PM
I used to think Tammi would have been a great replacement, but I think differently now. While she was vocally and physically right for the group, her attitude and vision wouldn’t have worked. Much like Diana and Syreeta, Tammi wanted to make it on her own. She would have used the group as a stepping stone. Something Mary and Cindy wouldn’t have tolerated. I know some people think Syreeta would have been a perfect choice, but she was too vocally similar to Diana. They needed a new, yet similar sound. With Syreeta, it would have a second rate version of Diana Ross & the Supremes.

I know other names were thrown out for consideration. Freda Payne, Scherrie, Barbara Randolph, and Edna Wright. I’ve even heard Thelma Houston and Marilyn McCoo were also considered at one point [[Marilyn would have been an excellent Supreme).

marv2
10-04-2018, 01:52 PM
I used to think Tammi would have been a great replacement, but I think differently now. While she was vocally and physically right for the group, her attitude and vision wouldn’t have worked. Much like Diana and Syreeta, Tammi wanted to make it on her own. She would have used the group as a stepping stone. Something Mary and Cindy wouldn’t have tolerated. I know some people think Syreeta would have been a perfect choice, but she was too vocally similar to Diana. They needed a new, yet similar sound. With Syreeta, it would have a second rate version of Diana Ross & the Supremes.

I know other names were thrown out for consideration. Freda Payne, Scherrie, Barbara Randolph, and Edna Wright. I’ve even heard Thelma Houston and Marilyn McCoo were also considered at one point [[Marilyn would have been an excellent Supreme).

Agree, agree. The bottom line is Jean Terrell was the best, ultimate person for the job. Thank God Mr. Gordy found her and thank God Mary Wilson endorsed her!

Bluebrock
10-04-2018, 03:28 PM
The common thread was Tammi Terrell and since this thread is about her, I want to focus on Tammi. What made her attracted to men who would beat her?
How was she to know that the men she was attracted to would beat her? If she knew she was going to be beaten by these guys why on earth would she associate with them in the first place? I never met Tammi so I had to rely on 2nd hand information with regards to her personality, but there is never a good enough excuse to beat up a woman.

sup_fan
10-04-2018, 06:26 PM
Agree, agree. The bottom line is Jean Terrell was the best, ultimate person for the job. Thank God Mr. Gordy found her and thank God Mary Wilson endorsed her!

i do truly love Jean's voice. but i wonder if she really was the ideal choice. she and Mary did not get along after a while and she was highly critical of motown. not saying she shouldn't be but being the "new kid on the block" does mean sometimes taking a more differential or diplomatic approach. sounds like she was often a challenge. that could have certainly added to motown's abandoning the group.

perhaps a person more like Scherrie - and amazing singer and a sweet personality - would have been a better fit

RanRan79
10-04-2018, 07:38 PM
I’ve never read that Mary and Cindy didn’t like tammi but I did read that they didn’t like Syreeta

Yeah, that was said about Mary and Cindy. I'm referring to Florence and Mary. Someone wrote a book about David Ruffin some years ago. I never read the book but someone who did told me that the person mentioned that Flo and Mary couldn't stand Tammi.

RanRan79
10-04-2018, 07:40 PM
I know other names were thrown out for consideration. Freda Payne, Scherrie, Barbara Randolph, and Edna Wright. I’ve even heard Thelma Houston and Marilyn McCoo were also considered at one point [[Marilyn would have been an excellent Supreme).

I don't know about Marilyn or Thelma or Barbara or Scherrie [[Scherrie stepping in Ross' place), but Freda and Edna would've been excellent choices.

RanRan79
10-04-2018, 07:42 PM
i do truly love Jean's voice. but i wonder if she really was the ideal choice. she and Mary did not get along after a while and she was highly critical of motown. not saying she shouldn't be but being the "new kid on the block" does mean sometimes taking a more differential or diplomatic approach. sounds like she was often a challenge. that could have certainly added to motown's abandoning the group.

perhaps a person more like Scherrie - and amazing singer and a sweet personality - would have been a better fit

That's the way I feel. Vocally Jean is tied with Diana and Florence as my favorite Supremes, but hindsight being 20/20, I think Jean proves to be the wrong move. As I said in a now deleted thread, I do place some blame on Jean for what went wrong with the 70s Supremes.

RanRan79
10-04-2018, 07:44 PM
I believe I heard the name Tammi Terrell as Diana’s replacement being mentioned back in the late summer of 1869 by Dick Clark on his American Bandstand.

If it's 1869, are you sure it wasn't Lewis and Clark on the American Expedition show?:p

RanRan79
10-04-2018, 07:45 PM
So no thoughts on my Wanda Rogers scenario?:confused:

luke
10-04-2018, 07:51 PM
Yes. Wanda has a Diana vibe . I could see it!

144man
10-04-2018, 07:54 PM
Jimmy Ruffin was asked to become a member of the Temptations. Saundra Edwards joined the Downbeats to become the Elgins. There was therefore the precedent for a solo performer to become a group member.

jobucats
10-04-2018, 08:17 PM
If it's 1869, are you sure it wasn't Lewis and Clark on the American Expedition show?:p


LOL, that's a good one! That 1869 error shows what happens to me oh so often...typing on that small keyboard on my phone.

Roberta75
10-04-2018, 09:28 PM
How was she to know that the men she was attracted to would beat her? If she knew she was going to be beaten by these guys why on earth would she associate with them in the first place? I never met Tammi so I had to rely on 2nd hand information with regards to her personality, but there is never a good enough excuse to beat up a woman.

You are a gentleman and a gentle man my dear friend.

milven
10-04-2018, 10:55 PM
If it's 1869, are you sure it wasn't Lewis and Clark on the American Expedition show?:p

Too clever ;)

bradsupremes
10-04-2018, 11:03 PM
So no thoughts on my Wanda Rogers scenario?:confused:

I don’t think it would have worked at all. I was never crazy about Wanda’s voice to begin with and felt it lacked energy. Her voice may have worked on the jazzier end like “Hunter” and “Don’t Mess With Bill,” but I don’t think she had it vocally in her to do the Supremes material/nightclub style show. They may have gotten the attention from Smokey, but that would have taken away all the magnificent work Frank Wilson did.

Jean was vocally right on, no pun intended.

Zantellor
10-04-2018, 11:24 PM
Jimmy Ruffin was asked to become a member of the Temptations. Saundra Edwards joined the Downbeats to become the Elgins. There was therefore the precedent for a solo performer to become a group member.
My opinion is the lady who should have been considered and replace Diana Ross was Saundra Edwards. As a singer she had the best voice to keep it sounding supreme while bringing something new and unique to The Supremes. She had one of the best voices I ever heard. Saundra was the missed chance.Ive said this many times and Im going to repeat it. Jean Terrell great singer that she is was the wrong woman to replace Diana Ross. She did not fit the image at all. She also seemed much to independant to be in a group.

luke
10-04-2018, 11:58 PM
Saundra good choice too tho I’m not sure about her stage presence from the couple of clips I’ve seen. Wanda sure sang Forever with energy and i’ ll Keep on Holdin on tho different from Diana’s flair. Recently watching their debut on Ed Sullivan Jean and Mary and Cindy really hit a homerun!

marv2
10-05-2018, 12:43 AM
Saundra good choice too tho I’m not sure about her stage presence from the couple of clips I’ve seen. Wanda sure sang Forever with energy and i’ ll Keep on Holdin on tho different from Diana’s flair. Recently watching their debut on Ed Sullivan Jean and Mary and Cindy really hit a homerun!

Believe it or not, after the original group, they are who I think of when I hear the name "Supremes".

luke
10-05-2018, 07:55 AM
Oh me too definitely.

144man
10-05-2018, 08:42 AM
My opinion is the lady who should have been considered and replace Diana Ross was Saundra Edwards. As a singer she had the best voice to keep it sounding supreme while bringing something new and unique to The Supremes. She had one of the best voices I ever heard. Saundra was the missed chance.Ive said this many times and Im going to repeat it. Jean Terrell great singer that she is was the wrong woman to replace Diana Ross. She did not fit the image at all. She also seemed much to independant to be in a group.

On listening to the records that Ian Levine produced in the nineties, Saundra Edwards was the only female artist whose voice had actually improved.

sup_fan
10-05-2018, 10:20 AM
i definitely do NOT think Wanda would have been a good choice. her voice is limited, at best. it's gorgeous in the husky, whispery low range. but can be grating and seriously off pitch in her head voice. she does not have a soprano range and so vocally she wouldn't have added much to the group given M and C ranges.

i've not seen much of her live appearances since there are so few, but she doesn't really strike me as a major stage presence. she could certainly sing lead on a song but i don't know that she could really be "mistress of the ceremonies"

plus with her mental decline and drug use...

frankly Gladys Horton might have been a better choice

or what about Ann Bogan? she would have added the r&b/gospel to the group!!

luke
10-05-2018, 10:54 AM
Cal Gil!! If she could have become a little more animated, she’d be a great choice.

Zantellor
10-05-2018, 11:00 AM
Wanda Young leading the Supremes. I do not think so. All one had to do was put The Andantes behind her and voila,The Supremes are The Marvelettes. Now Anne Bogan is a very different story. Anne could sang.She could have lead The Supremes easily. She is a great singer with a versatile voice.I even feel if Wanda had to leave The Marvelettes that Anne could have taken over the lead,
and with the right material and a push ,The Marvelettes could have continued very successfully

sup_fan
10-05-2018, 11:15 AM
^i agree. while i've only heard the few tracks with the M's that Ann did, DAMN!!! and going into the 70s with black pride, afros, Soul Train. the Marvelettes could have really updated their image and sound. gone a bit more funky and gospel too.

marv2
10-05-2018, 08:08 PM
i definitely do NOT think Wanda would have been a good choice. her voice is limited, at best. it's gorgeous in the husky, whispery low range. but can be grating and seriously off pitch in her head voice. she does not have a soprano range and so vocally she wouldn't have added much to the group given M and C ranges.

i've not seen much of her live appearances since there are so few, but she doesn't really strike me as a major stage presence. she could certainly sing lead on a song but i don't know that she could really be "mistress of the ceremonies"

plus with her mental decline and drug use...

frankly Gladys Horton might have been a better choice

or what about Ann Bogan? she would have added the r&b/gospel to the group!!

Uh, uh, it wouldn't have worked with Wanda. They would have sounded just like the Marvelettes.

marv2
10-05-2018, 08:09 PM
Cal Gil!! If she could have become a little more animated, she’d be a great choice.

Cal would have been good.

midnightman
10-05-2018, 09:03 PM
She and Marvin also appeared on "Expo'67," the familiar clip where they are singing outside. Too bad there is no other footage. Although I wonder just how much more TV [[if any) they did after her collapse on stage.

I only mention Hy Lit, Today and Tonight because there were the only U.S. appearances but the Expo one would be #4 in list of total American shows, yes. They never got a chance to do their duets outside of NA as we all know WHY that never happened. :[[ I always looked at both Marvin and Tammi's careers as careers of missed opportunities [[though Marvin eventually did become a permanent global music legend thanks to his '70s and '80s recordings). The magic they could've still done but maybe it was fate that Tammi left as early as she did. Cancer sucks. :[[

midnightman
10-05-2018, 09:05 PM
Tammi Terrell had been "out there" in the life since she was 14 years old. She use to go with James Brown and he use to beat her up a lot. I always wonder what exactly did she do to make men want to physically harm her?

Nothing. And she was the victim of a gang rape at 11. Tammi was used and abused in all the ways you can think. She didn't do nothing to make these a-holes beat her, rape her or any of that.

midnightman
10-05-2018, 09:07 PM
I think the Expo 67 performance is from the Today Show.

These pics were captioned [[from Divided Soul, I think) as being from The Today Show:

http://ilosm.cdnize.com/wp-content/uploads/marvin-and-tammi-blog-pic.jpg
https://img.discogs.com/uhvPOBTtqN1DwdNvTeROeioU_-4=/fit-in/300x300/filters:strip_icc[[):format[[jpeg):mode_rgb[[):qualit y[[40)/discogs-images/A-517766-1447941780-2795.jpeg.jpg

There are two more pics from that appearance with what appeared to be the Today host and they were being interviewed. Can't seem to find them right now but if you see some of Marvin's documentaries, they're in there.

midnightman
10-05-2018, 09:08 PM
The tonight show clip was on YouTube

You can see it on YouTube now. Think Johnny Carson's estate uploaded it [[after someone else posted it and they had it yanked initially) but now people can see it on YouTube with the Carson logo.

midnightman
10-05-2018, 09:17 PM
How was she to know that the men she was attracted to would beat her? If she knew she was going to be beaten by these guys why on earth would she associate with them in the first place? I never met Tammi so I had to rely on 2nd hand information with regards to her personality, but there is never a good enough excuse to beat up a woman.

Tammi Terrell [[aka Thomasina "Tammy" Montgomery) was just a free spirit. Someone who wasn't gonna let a man tell her what to do.

And some men who wanted to be in control didn't like that. I mean, one man hit Tammi upside the head with an umbrella and threw her down a flight of stairs [[James) and another hit Tammi's face with his motorcycle helmet [[Ruffin). I don't know how some commenters can ask "what attracted Tammi to these men?" as if she knew how these men were [[she didn't).

She didn't expect James to do what he did to her because of simple mistakes she made DURING PERFORMANCES, MIND YOU [[and remember, she was only between 16 and 18 years of age when she was with James!) and she didn't think David was as messed up as he was [[he lied to her about being single and then she had to find out David had a wife with three kids and a mistress on the side after he pretended Tammi was his only lady). Tammi by all accounts was a sweetheart [[Marvin confirmed this; he also confirmed Tammi was "Ms. Independent").

I would've said "a better question to ask is what made these men hit her?" But I answered my question. And in the Tammi/James case, James got belligerent because Tammi "didn't come at the right time" onstage with his cape or whatever it was she should've done. You can also ask the families of the late Marva Whitney and Lyn Collins how horrible James treated them during performances too. It was pretty much the same story!

midnightman
10-05-2018, 09:19 PM
So no thoughts on my Wanda Rogers scenario?:confused:

Cocaine abuse
Alcoholism
Unchecked mental issues

As Kat said in Unsung, dealing with Wanda was a handful! Imagine her as a Supreme, that would've killed the group faster than it did. It took Mary Wilson all of three years to hook up with a man who did play a huge part in killing the Supremes [[thanks Pedro smh), it would've took Wanda all but a year for Motown to be like "yeah let's get rid of the Supremes". That TRULY would've been Berry "washing his hands of the group".

midnightman
10-05-2018, 09:21 PM
Wanda Young leading the Supremes. I do not think so. All one had to do was put The Andantes behind her and voila,The Supremes are The Marvelettes. Now Anne Bogan is a very different story. Anne could sang.She could have lead The Supremes easily. She is a great singer with a versatile voice.I even feel if Wanda had to leave The Marvelettes that Anne could have taken over the lead,
and with the right material and a push ,The Marvelettes could have continued very successfully

I agree. Ann Bogan would've been much better. Can you imagine how she would've sounded on Stone Love?! I mean the song is Jean's anthem but imagine it in Ann's hands would've been great and then to hear it live, OMG... Ann, Mary & Cindy would've been a great lineup. Ann had Diana's complexion as well. A beautiful black woman. Definitely would've worked. Also better chemistry since we now know of the clashes between Jean and the others [[particularly Mary).

marv2
10-05-2018, 09:47 PM
Tammi Terrell [[aka Thomasina "Tammy" Montgomery) was just a free spirit. Someone who wasn't gonna let a man tell her what to do.

And some men who wanted to be in control didn't like that. I mean, one man hit Tammi upside the head with an umbrella and threw her down a flight of stairs [[James) and another hit Tammi's face with his motorcycle helmet [[Ruffin). I don't know how some commenters can ask "what attracted Tammi to these men?" as if she knew how these men were [[she didn't).

She didn't expect James to do what he did to her because of simple mistakes she made DURING PERFORMANCES, MIND YOU [[and remember, she was only between 16 and 18 years of age when she was with James!) and she didn't think David was as messed up as he was [[he lied to her about being single and then she had to find out David had a wife with three kids and a mistress on the side after he pretended Tammi was his only lady). Tammi by all accounts was a sweetheart [[Marvin confirmed this; he also confirmed Tammi was "Ms. Independent").

I would've said "a better question to ask is what made these men hit her?" But I answered my question. And in the Tammi/James case, James got belligerent because Tammi "didn't come at the right time" onstage with his cape or whatever it was she should've done. You can also ask the families of the late Marva Whitney and Lyn Collins how horrible James treated them during performances too. It was pretty much the same story!

Why did you leave out the part about Tammi getting David hooked on illegal drugs. This is starting to sound like more of the male bashing that you do around the forum.

marv2
10-05-2018, 10:05 PM
According to Tammi Terrell's sister Ludie Montgomery, few people know that Tammi was raped and severely beaten by three boys when she was a teenager. So you see she had been getting beat by males most of her life. That is not normal and you cannot get me to believe that she just randomly met and became associated with men that beat women. I'll ask again, what was it about her that cause these things to happen?

Roberta75
10-05-2018, 11:14 PM
According to Tammi Terrell's sister Ludie Montgomery, few people know that Tammi was raped and severely beaten by three boys when she was a teenager. So you see she had been getting beat by males most of her life. That is not normal and you cannot get me to believe that she just randomly met and became associated with men that beat women. I'll ask again, what was it about her that cause these things to happen?

Not a lick of empathy or feeling for the teenage girl who was raped. You love to blame the woman and support pigs like Pedro Ferrer.

midnightman
10-06-2018, 01:03 AM
So she should be blamed for a gang rape? She deserved an umbrella aimed at her head? That motorcycle helmet hit?

Three evil knucklehead ass boys took her virginity WITHOUT her consent. She was only 17 when the James Brown incident occurred and she was dealing with a weirdo who had a wife and kids and a mistress.

But Tammi is to be blamed?! F*CK THAT SH*T!

Roberta75
10-06-2018, 01:14 AM
So she should be blamed for a gang rape? She deserved an umbrella aimed at her head? That motorcycle helmet hit?

Three evil knucklehead ass boys took her virginity WITHOUT her consent. She was only 17 when the James Brown incident occurred and she was dealing with a weirdo who had a wife and kids and a mistress.

But Tammi is to be blamed?! F*CK THAT SH*T!

Its real shocking to me and that blame the woman mentallity is the reason a rapist is going to be confirmed to sit on the Supreme Court and a sex offender - President Pus*y Grabber mocked a brave woman Christine Blassey Ford at a campaign rally and his ignorant bigoted base cheered him on. Im beyond sick. #Metoo

midnightman
10-06-2018, 01:54 AM
This is why Tammi, Whitney and Tina are blamed by these men for the f*ck sh*t the men caused and they never are at fault for anything because their behaviors are always excused for "well what did the woman do?" It's a BS mentality that allows ain't crap men to be on top.

Bluebrock
10-06-2018, 02:35 AM
Why did you leave out the part about Tammi getting David hooked on illegal drugs. This is starting to sound like more of the male bashing that you do around the forum.
You really do have a downer on Tammi Terrell don't you? I find the tone of your conversation both sinister and disturbing. I shall leave it at that.

RanRan79
10-06-2018, 02:45 PM
Jimmy Ruffin was asked to become a member of the Temptations. Saundra Edwards joined the Downbeats to become the Elgins. There was therefore the precedent for a solo performer to become a group member.

How many hits did they have? Charting singles? Of course there's always an exception to nearly every rule, but there has never been a point in the history of music during the "rock and roll era" where single artists with any measurable "success" were trying to join singing groups.

RanRan79
10-06-2018, 02:49 PM
I don’t think it would have worked at all. I was never crazy about Wanda’s voice to begin with and felt it lacked energy. Her voice may have worked on the jazzier end like “Hunter” and “Don’t Mess With Bill,” but I don’t think she had it vocally in her to do the Supremes material/nightclub style show. They may have gotten the attention from Smokey, but that would have taken away all the magnificent work Frank Wilson did.

Jean was vocally right on, no pun intended.

Good point about the Supremes material. While no doubt Wanda would've sounded great on songs like "Where Did Our Love Go" and "My World Is Empty", I don't think her singing "You Can't Hurry Love" or "Hangin On" during the show would've worked. And that would definitely be a part of the equation in trying to replace Diana: what singer could do her famous leads justice. I don't think Wanda could.

RanRan79
10-06-2018, 02:51 PM
i definitely do NOT think Wanda would have been a good choice. her voice is limited, at best. it's gorgeous in the husky, whispery low range. but can be grating and seriously off pitch in her head voice. she does not have a soprano range and so vocally she wouldn't have added much to the group given M and C ranges.

i've not seen much of her live appearances since there are so few, but she doesn't really strike me as a major stage presence. she could certainly sing lead on a song but i don't know that she could really be "mistress of the ceremonies"

plus with her mental decline and drug use...

frankly Gladys Horton might have been a better choice

or what about Ann Bogan? she would have added the r&b/gospel to the group!!

I pointed that out about Wanda maybe being unable to do hosting duties like Ross was so great at doing. Gladys a better replacement? I don't think so. But Ann might have really been a great choice. A very great suggestion.

RanRan79
10-06-2018, 03:06 PM
I would've said "a better question to ask is what made these men hit her?"

A much better question than the one previously posed. However I do think it's important to point out that there may have been something in Tammi that attracted her to abusive men. Iyanla might ask Tammi about her family, possibly producing a "pathology" that contributed to Tammi's attraction to abusive men. My grandmother would wonder about the spiritual aspect, which would basically be sort of like the pathology thing. Could there have been something in Tammi's first rape as a child that contributed to her inability to navigate toward men who were good for her as she grew older as opposed to those who were bad for her? I've always found it fascinating, listening to or reading about people figuring out the patterns in their lives and why they do the things that they do, or are the way they are. So I definitely think it's inbounds to wonder why Tammi seemed to always end up in these relationships. [[Other than Unsung- much of which I barely remember- I don't know much about Tammi's life outside of the music she left behind.)

But that's a whole 'nother world than asking what she did to make these men do anything. If you ask that, then you have to also ask what was it about the other women these men abused that made the men want to do that to them also. After all, just like Tammi had a pattern, so did these men. And people wonder why rape victims and other sexual assault and harrassment victims and domestic abuse victims so rarely reach out for help. It has to suck to listen to person after person wonder what you did to deserve being raped/beaten/touched.

RanRan79
10-06-2018, 03:07 PM
Cocaine abuse
Alcoholism
Unchecked mental issues

As Kat said in Unsung, dealing with Wanda was a handful! Imagine her as a Supreme, that would've killed the group faster than it did. It took Mary Wilson all of three years to hook up with a man who did play a huge part in killing the Supremes [[thanks Pedro smh), it would've took Wanda all but a year for Motown to be like "yeah let's get rid of the Supremes". That TRULY would've been Berry "washing his hands of the group".

Yes Midnight, but in my scenario- as I pointed out- Wanda doesn't have those issues. My scenario is predicated on Wanda being clean and sober because in real life she would never be a contender with her issues.

RanRan79
10-06-2018, 03:17 PM
We live in the era of Trump. Why in the world are y'all acting so shocked at the words documented in this thread? This is the real world, ladies and gentlemen, where women can do things that get themselves assaulted.*rolling eyes Smiley without that stupid grin attached*

thanxal
10-06-2018, 03:59 PM
According to Tammi Terrell's sister Ludie Montgomery, few people know that Tammi was raped and severely beaten by three boys when she was a teenager. So you see she had been getting beat by males most of her life. That is not normal and you cannot get me to believe that she just randomly met and became associated with men that beat women. I'll ask again, what was it about her that cause these things to happen?
Marv, this is disgusting. I really don't care if it is "just your opinion". It's summarily disgusting. Women do not "cause" men to beat them. Men beat them because the men have problems, not the woman.

thanxal
10-06-2018, 04:00 PM
We live in the era of Trump. Why in the world are y'all acting so shocked at the words documented in this thread? This is the real world, ladies and gentlemen, where women can do things that get themselves assaulted.*rolling eyes Smiley without that stupid grin attached*
Просто потому, что эта чертова свинья говорит, что это ничего не значит для меня.

Roberta75
10-06-2018, 04:06 PM
Marv, this is disgusting. I really don't care if it is "just your opinion". It's summarily disgusting. Women do not "cause" men to beat them. Men beat them because the men have problems, not the woman.

Its a real disturbing pattern with him IMO. He defends Cosby and Ike Turner and Pedro Ferrer. Makes me wonder if he supports Kavanaugh and Laur and O'Reilly.

RanRan79
10-06-2018, 04:06 PM
Просто потому, что эта чертова свинья говорит, что это ничего не значит для меня.

The same goes for the rest of us real men too, my friend.

thanxal
10-06-2018, 04:11 PM
Its a real disturbing pattern with him IMO. He defends Cosby and Ike Turner and Pedro Ferrer. Makes me wonder if he supports Kavanaugh and Laur and O'Reilly.
I've honestly stopped caring about him, but any statement that a woman deserved a beating can't be left standing.

Roberta75
10-06-2018, 04:32 PM
I've honestly stopped caring about him, but any statement that a woman deserved a beating can't be left standing.

Exactly. Call em all out. #Metoo

midnightman
10-06-2018, 08:10 PM
Yes Midnight, but in my scenario- as I pointed out- Wanda doesn't have those issues. My scenario is predicated on Wanda being clean and sober because in real life she would never be a contender with her issues.

Oh...

Hmm...

Well now that you put it THAT way...

I don't know... but maybe there is a place for Wanda if the Supremes headed in another more soulful direction?

arr&bee
10-09-2018, 04:59 PM
if it's 1869, are you sure it wasn't lewis and clark on the american expedition show?:phehehehehehehe!!!

arr&bee
10-09-2018, 05:02 PM
Tammi was beautiful and talented and i didn't know her,but some women are attracted to abusive men[i've known some who were]it's sad and a bit sick to me but such is life.

marv2
10-09-2018, 07:37 PM
Tammi was beautiful and talented and i didn't know her,but some women are attracted to abusive men[i've known some who were]it's sad and a bit sick to me but such is life.

Thank you! That is all I was looking for!

marv2
10-09-2018, 09:57 PM
Marv, this is disgusting. I really don't care if it is "just your opinion". It's summarily disgusting. Women do not "cause" men to beat them. Men beat them because the men have problems, not the woman.

I don't care either, but I think you are reading too much into something that is basically simple. Women have caused men to get physically rough to the point of beating them. I saw a woman slap her boyfriend and spit a huge wad in his face at an amusement park once, the guy slapped her back and left her standing there without a ride. Cause and effect. It's up to you to decide if you can deal with that reality of life.

thanxal
10-10-2018, 01:03 AM
Women have caused men to get physically rough to the point of beating them.
Marv, lets go back to something you should have learned at about age 5...

It is never ok for a man to hit a woman.

See how simple that is?

midnightman
10-10-2018, 01:35 AM
I'm sorry, but Tina Turner, Mary Wilson, Tammi Terrell, etc., never did anything to be hit by the men in their lives.

I have to disagree with Arrr&Beee that she attracted abusive men or that ANY WOMAN for that matter attracts a man who's abusive [[same can be said for men who found themselves trapped in abusive relationships with women; it's rare, but it happens). It's true she came from a dysfunctional background and as a preteen had her life basically snatched from her by three boys. She also probably thought both James and David were gonna be looking out for her. Looks can be deceiving. They presented themselves to Tammi as gentlemen and almost perfect and Tammi fell for it. By the time she realized what was going on with these men, it was too late.

And besides, the last man in Tammi's life was a doctor who tried his best to take care of Tammi in her dying days. Tammi's mother obviously knew of the David Ruffin situation and made sure him and the rest of Motown - sans Marvin of course - were not allowed to pay their final respects to Tammi at her funeral. Also there were rumors that she and Sam Cooke had a fling of sorts after she had left James Brown.

Tammi was misunderstood. And wanted love. And got only fame and hurt.

marv2
10-10-2018, 02:13 AM
Marv, lets go back to something you should have learned at about age 5...

It is never ok for a man to hit a woman.

See how simple that is?

Don't tell me. Tell all of those dudes that beat angelic Tammi Terrell's ass!

Fullfillingnessfirstfinale
10-10-2018, 03:21 AM
IMO The Marvelettes are a group with an earthy soul sound, they were not pop-oriented like the Supremes, so I think no one of them [[Ann,Wanda,Gladys) were the perfect lead singer for the Supremes. The Supremes are a Berry Gordy Project, to decide that Diana became the lead singer not Flo is the evidence, to create the Supremes as Pop oriented vocal group ! Ann, Wanda and Gladys have really good voices and I agree Ann would be the best lead singer for the group to find a new suceccfully start in the seventies.

Saundra Edwards sounds to me too soulful, so I think Rita Wrigth could be a candiate or Barbara Randolph, maybe Barbara McNair too.

RanRan79
10-10-2018, 10:09 AM
Tammi was beautiful and talented and i didn't know her,but some women are attracted to abusive menit's sad and a bit sick to me but such is life.

It is a sickness and it is sad, and far too many women fail to get help for it, and far too many women are failed by society [[family and society at large), in large part because of the attitude expressed in this thread. There have been women who have been sexually assaulted multiple times in their lives. It would be sick to wonder what they did to make men want to rape and/or molest them, right? Of course it would. And that's as sick as wondering what she did to be beaten so many times. But both questions are questions men [I]and women find themselves asking. My thought is that it's more scary for people to ask why the men find it okay to rape and beat the women. It might cause some uncomfortable feelings within themselves, so it's easier to put the fault on the victim.

RanRan79
10-10-2018, 10:20 AM
Marv, lets go back to something you should have learned at about age 5...

It is never ok for a man to hit a woman.

See how simple that is?

It's never okay for anybody to hit anybody, and my advice to females has been the same for years: if you don't want that man putting his hands on you, you keep your hands to yourself. I've seen this crap before, where women get violent with men because they know the man subscribes to the motto than it is never okay for him to hit a woman, and she takes advantage of that. I remember being in school, there were girls who would jump up in some boy's face over the smallest thing but would go into hiding the minute they had beef with some girl.:rolleyes: It's kind of like the bully that picks on folks he/she knows won't fight back vs picking on kids who'll get in that ass. Some women are like that.

However, that's a different situation than a woman being physically abused. Women like Tammi are beaten for being flirty, for talking back, for being "disobedient", for the friends she tries to keep, for having an opinion, for her family, for her job, for the children, FOR SIMPLY BEING. Any man that finds fault with the woman over this and not the man is a piece of trash that is suspect in regards to his own treatment of women. If a man can't handle his emotions when it comes to his woman he should beat his own ass, not hers.

RanRan79
10-10-2018, 10:25 AM
I have to disagree with Arrr&Beee that she attracted abusive men or that ANY WOMAN for that matter attracts a man who's abusive

No this thing is real. There are definitely people out there who have a pattern of bad relationships and there's usually something in their past that triggers it. When a woman finds herself in multiple abusive relationships, it's usually not a coincidence. And usually when you find a man who hits his lady, she usually isn't the only one. The patterns in our lives say a whole lot.

RanRan79
10-10-2018, 10:29 AM
The Supremes are a Berry Gordy Project, to decide that Diana became the lead singer not Flo is the evidence, to create the Supremes as Pop oriented vocal group !

The Supremes created themselves and they still would've done all the same standards and jazzy stuff even if Gordy had made Flo the lead singer, because from the very beginning they were the type of group who enjoyed doing all kinds of music. But singles wise, the Supremes were always a R&B/pop group, just like the Marvelettes, so I don't know why that would cancel out any particular Marvelette.

sup_fan
10-10-2018, 11:11 AM
they were definitely a bit more sophisticated than other girl groups and they also definitely were predisposed to singing a full range of songs and styles

the hyper-glamour image they developed into is probably more of a Diana influence. she herself was obsessed with fashion and glamour. had she not been in the group [[aside from many, many changes to history) i think they might not have become quite so over the top with sequins, boas, massive wigs, etc. I think that was really Diana's personality come to life. and fortunately during the DRATS period, M and C really complimented the look and enjoyed it. when the glitz was starting back in 66, Flo wasn't as in to it. and we all know Jean wasn't either

midnightman
10-10-2018, 11:35 AM
Diana was influenced by the likes of Eartha Kitt and Josephine Baker, women who were very HIGH on the glamour image. She was a fashion designer and she helped to come up with the costumes for the group. The Supremes were definitely SELF-MADE!

midnightman
10-10-2018, 12:36 PM
No this thing is real. There are definitely people out there who have a pattern of bad relationships and there's usually something in their past that triggers it. When a woman finds herself in multiple abusive relationships, it's usually not a coincidence. And usually when you find a man who hits his lady, she usually isn't the only one. The patterns in our lives say a whole lot.

That's been the narrative for years but I don't think most seek men who are abusive. Men who turn out to be abusive usually are the ones who put up a front as this tweet explains:

https://66.media.tumblr.com/07e9766a47d879f6e34f9fd4cb3923ce/tumblr_pg4g5siG7A1stlw8n_540.jpg

Like do you think men like Ike Turner, James Brown, David Ruffin, Bobby Brown or even Marvin [[who admitted to being abusive) would show who they were on jump street? No. Because at first, they appear charming and not like boys/men they grew up around. It's their initial behavior and charm that gets them to be with them. It's only later that the abusive side shows. What it is is that happens is once the abuse starts, the woman thinks "you know what? Maybe he just is having issues emotionally. He won't be like this." And most of the time the abuse would subside and he goes back being the lovely dovey person that they were first introduced to. Then it comes back up again. For some women, the abuse gets worse because the man is full of rage for no reason. For some women, they do have support systems but some refuse because they try to convince their supporters [[and themselves) that everything is fine and then gets to the point they're defending the man's abusive actions with things like "he's bipolar, his childhood was messed up, etc."

Luckily for Tammi, once the abuse got REAL HORRIFIC, she LEFT. After the James Brown incident where he roughed her up real bad backstage after a show in 1964, she got Gene Chandler to call her mother and she and her sister picked up Tammi and returned to Philadelphia. Tammi ended her relationship with David RIGHT AFTER he hit her with the motorcycle helmet. She probably not only had the support system but the connections to get away.

Some other women either push them away [[Whitney Houston) or literally have no other place to go [[Tina Turner for so many years). There may be a part that is used to abusive men and they found themselves falling for someone who is abusive but it's not right away. It may be true that some women don't mind being with the "bad boy" because it gives them an edge until that edge turns against them and they realize "this is too much, I gotta get out" and this is after they have had children with the man.

The man makes promises he won't do it again but then he keeps on doing it and then it gets worse. Some women eventually find an escape but others don't. It's an unfortunate reality. That's why it took Tina Turner years to understand what love really meant. It wasn't that she was attracted to abuse, she was seeking love and found hate. It took her until recently to finally find love. When she was near death, she realized the current man [[husband) in her life really loved her. She just admitted this to Oprah.

Back to Tammi Terrell though, like I said, she left her relationships with the men after their abusive sides got too much for them and before she died, she did finally find a stable boyfriend who wasn't abusive and who really loved her. Which makes her death even more tragic.

marv2
10-10-2018, 03:03 PM
they were definitely a bit more sophisticated than other girl groups and they also definitely were predisposed to singing a full range of songs and styles

the hyper-glamour image they developed into is probably more of a Diana influence. she herself was obsessed with fashion and glamour. had she not been in the group [[aside from many, many changes to history) i think they might not have become quite so over the top with sequins, boas, massive wigs, etc. I think that was really Diana's personality come to life. and fortunately during the DRATS period, M and C really complimented the look and enjoyed it. when the glitz was starting back in 66, Flo wasn't as in to it. and we all know Jean wasn't either

First of all, it was Mary Wilson who was the clothes horse of that group. She was influenced at an early age by her aunt I.V. [[a corruption of the name Ivy). She would sneak and try on her aunt's wardrobe. Diana or Diane Ross liked clothes too. She won "Best Dressed Girl" at Cass Tech High School her senior year................wearing clothes she borrowed from Mary Wilson!

The Supremes were not a "Girl Group" per se. They get categorized as being one just because they were an all female vocal ensemble. You'll never hear the Temptations or the Beatles referred to as "Boy Groups". The Supremes were a part of a movement. A concerted effort to crossover into the white market in an effort to support the Civil Rights struggle of the 1960s in America. Sure, they were glamorous, but the reason Motown supported that dimension of the group is for the reasons I cited. That is why they invested in Artist Development. They were determined to get into the white supper clubs like the Copa, Coconut Grove, etc, etc. They were going to get on mainstream television programs such as "The Tonight Show", "The Ed Sullivan Show", "The Steve Allen Show" etc,etc. We, in America all watched these programs in the 1960s. They garnered a much larger audience then than programs do today for the mere fact that there were only three major television networks in those days. Cable has since fragmented viewing along individual interests lines today. Again the glamor image of the Supremes is credited to Diana Ross, but it was actually started with Mary Wilson's lust for clothes etc LOL! The changing of hairstyles and wigs for each performance was her idea. The heavy makeup was something both Mary and Diane valued to the extreme. Just look at them from the point they split up from the Supremes and how each presented themselves publicly every since for clues to what I am saying.

marv2
10-10-2018, 03:12 PM
Diana was influenced by the likes of Eartha Kitt and Josephine Baker, women who were very HIGH on the glamour image. She was a fashion designer and she helped to come up with the costumes for the group. The Supremes were definitely SELF-MADE!

That is a nice story but that is not true! Try closer to home. Diane has said that she was influenced in terms of dressing by the local prostitutes near her block in Detroit. She'd go and watch them and how the men reacted to each one of them. That is how she came to start wearing the heavy mascera [[sp?) as a teenager. Her father use to question her about it. The Supremes were self-made to an extent. They were also a product of their environment which we all are to some extent.

blackguy69
10-10-2018, 04:41 PM
That is a nice story but that is not true! Try closer to home. Diane has said that she was influenced in terms of dressing by the local prostitutes near her block in Detroit. She'd go and watch them and how the men reacted to each one of them. That is how she came to start wearing the heavy mascera [[sp?) as a teenager. Her father use to question her about it. The Supremes were self-made to an extent. They were also a product of their environment which we all are to some extent. marv I’m calling bs on that story, prove what you just said. You should already know you’re going to be attacked for that comment

marv2
10-10-2018, 05:03 PM
marv I’m calling bs on that story, prove what you just said. You should already know you’re going to be attacked for that comment

I have Zero you know what's to give about anyone attacking me for telling the truth. How do
I know what I said is true? It came right out of Diana Ross' mouth! Go find it! You should know by now that I am going to tell the truth....the real truth to bust up some of the myths and outright lies these guys post here.

midnightman
10-10-2018, 07:27 PM
He can't prove it because it's not true. But again, he defends Mary's abusive ex. But he's gonna tell us he's a fan of Mary Wilson. A real fan of Mary Wilson won't support an abusive a-hole like Pedro. But again, that's not what this topic is about and we've allowed ourselves to have another thread derailed because someone wants to blame Tammi Terrell for getting hit in the head with a motorcycle helmet over a topic that was originally about did she or did she not get an invite to join America's most successful all-female vocal group in music history.

marv2
10-10-2018, 08:10 PM
He can't prove it because it's not true. But again, he defends Mary's abusive ex. But he's gonna tell us he's a fan of Mary Wilson. A real fan of Mary Wilson won't support an abusive a-hole like Pedro. But again, that's not what this topic is about and we've allowed ourselves to have another thread derailed because someone wants to blame Tammi Terrell for getting hit in the head with a motorcycle helmet over a topic that was originally about did she or did she not get an invite to join America's most successful all-female vocal group in music history.

There is nothing you said in the above posting that makes sense, is accurate or true! We have already exhausted everything around why Tammi Terrell was not seriously considered as a potential member of the Supremes. So maybe Ralph should freeze this thread.

midnightman
10-10-2018, 08:15 PM
Anyways, here's one reason Tammi wouldn't have really fit with the Supremes:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SpmdY4VCAM

Like honestly, can you imagine Mary and Cindy singing behind this? Lol

sup_fan
10-11-2018, 10:46 AM
First of all, it was Mary Wilson who was the clothes horse of that group. She was influenced at an early age by her aunt I.V. [[a corruption of the name Ivy). She would sneak and try on her aunt's wardrobe. Diana or Diane Ross liked clothes too. She won "Best Dressed Girl" at Cass Tech High School her senior year................wearing clothes she borrowed from Mary Wilson!

The Supremes were not a "Girl Group" per se. They get categorized as being one just because they were an all female vocal ensemble. You'll never hear the Temptations or the Beatles referred to as "Boy Groups". The Supremes were a part of a movement. A concerted effort to crossover into the white market in an effort to support the Civil Rights struggle of the 1960s in America. Sure, they were glamorous, but the reason Motown supported that dimension of the group is for the reasons I cited. That is why they invested in Artist Development. They were determined to get into the white supper clubs like the Copa, Coconut Grove, etc, etc. They were going to get on mainstream television programs such as "The Tonight Show", "The Ed Sullivan Show", "The Steve Allen Show" etc,etc. We, in America all watched these programs in the 1960s. They garnered a much larger audience then than programs do today for the mere fact that there were only three major television networks in those days. Cable has since fragmented viewing along individual interests lines today. Again the glamor image of the Supremes is credited to Diana Ross, but it was actually started with Mary Wilson's lust for clothes etc LOL! The changing of hairstyles and wigs for each performance was her idea. The heavy makeup was something both Mary and Diane valued to the extreme. Just look at them from the point they split up from the Supremes and how each presented themselves publicly every since for clues to what I am saying.

Marv - when the supremes/primettes started they were absolutely a "girl group" and not simply because all of the members had 2 X chromosomes lol. they completely patterned themselves off of the top girl groups of the day. their early material and performances were very "girl group" but they did quickly start to separate themselves from this genre with their sophistication of looks, sound, harmonies, song choice, etc. by 63, they were sort of in a weird middle ground. with the explosion of WDOLG and they continued to break away from the mold. and you're right, by 65 and the Copa era, they were firmly in a category unto themselves

and your points about mary are correct in that she was always into fashion and style. But diana actually studied fashion, understood the construction of clothing, the use of material, etc. not to say mary did or didn't - who knows. she's never said that she ever read or studied the topic but maybe she did in spare time. it's certainly been quoted that she and diana together often sewed the early outfits.

in the later 60s, i would assume Diana was more responsible for the look of the group, only because she was pretty clearly the "leader" according to motown. most of the overall direction of the group was coming from berry/diana so i'd assume the decisions around costumes, gowns and all were hers too.

midnightman
10-11-2018, 03:49 PM
Yeah the late '60s were definitely Diana's alone. I think she worked with Bob Mackie on many of the gowns the group wore. I could be wrong but I know she got involved with Mackie at some point, if not during the later years with the Supremes, definitely after.

Mary was involved in some form or fashion so they did share that in common. That's why Mary today is passionate about the gowns.

RanRan79
10-12-2018, 10:33 AM
Anyways, here's one reason Tammi wouldn't have really fit with the Supremes:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SpmdY4VCAM

Like honestly, can you imagine Mary and Cindy singing behind this? Lol

Yes I could hear Mary and Cindy singing on this, but it wouldn't have the edge the girls on the song have. But Tammi- had she become a Supreme- would've been taking over for Diana Ross in 1970. This type of song wouldn't have been in consideration. Bad example my friend.

RanRan79
10-12-2018, 10:42 AM
Marv - when the supremes/primettes started they were absolutely a "girl group" and not simply because all of the members had 2 X chromosomes lol. they completely patterned themselves off of the top girl groups of the day. their early material and performances were very "girl group" but they did quickly start to separate themselves from this genre with their sophistication of looks, sound, harmonies, song choice, etc. by 63, they were sort of in a weird middle ground. with the explosion of WDOLG and they continued to break away from the mold. and you're right, by 65 and the Copa era, they were firmly in a category unto themselves

and your points about mary are correct in that she was always into fashion and style. But diana actually studied fashion, understood the construction of clothing, the use of material, etc. not to say mary did or didn't - who knows. she's never said that she ever read or studied the topic but maybe she did in spare time. it's certainly been quoted that she and diana together often sewed the early outfits.

in the later 60s, i would assume Diana was more responsible for the look of the group, only because she was pretty clearly the "leader" according to motown. most of the overall direction of the group was coming from berry/diana so i'd assume the decisions around costumes, gowns and all were hers too.

Whenever someone tries to give one of the Supremes credit for something, someone always has to come in and take it away. Everybody knows Diana was the one who put her stamp of fashion on the group, which would be obvious considering that was the vocation she was planning on falling back on if the music thing didn't work out. Yeah, Mary was involved in helping to make costumes and such. She says in her first book that she helped, but also admitted that Diana did more detailing on the dresses she worked on, as well as Mary had to go back and fix crooked seams. That tells me that Diana always had the eye. But someone can't stand to see Diana get credit for anything.

Just like the ones who get bent out of shape when Mary is given credit for keeping the Supremes' legacy alive. Or the folks who insist on whenever Flo is given credit for naming the Supremes they have to come in talking about some damn Janie Bradford, a woman who suggested the name while Florence was the one who ultimately chose the name Supremes and thus becomes the person who named them.

Some of ya'll get so stuck on your favorites that it makes you crazy when it comes to the other Supremes. It's ridiculous.

midnightman
10-12-2018, 03:42 PM
Yes I could hear Mary and Cindy singing on this, but it wouldn't have the edge the girls on the song have. But Tammi- had she become a Supreme- would've been taking over for Diana Ross in 1970. This type of song wouldn't have been in consideration. Bad example my friend.

I meant for that time in the late '60s, had Diana left. Not 1970.