PDA

View Full Version : He's My Sunny Boy by DRATS


test

aarondillon2011@gmail.com
09-30-2018, 06:51 PM
I was listening to this song along with the hits of the time from the late 60's and early 70's and this songs fit right in with the hits from various artists. I am wondering if He's My Sunny Boy could have been a hit at the time? Does anyone else think this song has hit potential?

TomatoTom123
09-30-2018, 07:08 PM
Yeah aaron I like this one, a cute and catchy little number. Perhaps not international-across-the-board-smash-hit material, but a good choice for single I'd say. :)

WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance
09-30-2018, 08:37 PM
I was listening to this song along with the hits of the time from the late 60's and early 70's and this songs fit right in with the hits from various artists. I am wondering if He's My Sunny Boy could have been a hit at the time? Does anyone else think this song has hit potential?

I've had the same thought as well about this song. I love this song- A LOT! But it's hard to say how it would have done chart-wise. To me, it has a bit more of a funk edge than pop and probably would have done well on the soul stations.

Had The Marvelettes or Martha & The Vandellas put it out and it went maybe Top 20, that would have been considered pretty good. Being that The Supremes were Motown's flagship group, even Top 10 wouldn't have been considered as any kind of success, unless it went to [[#1 or #2) which is too bad. I believe that's why a lot of good songs recorded by The Supremes never got out of the vaults- the song would have had to be ground-breaking, trendy and radical in a chic sort of way or else it was "just another song."

captainjames
09-30-2018, 10:49 PM
"He's My Sunny Boy " was the flip side to "Someday We.ll Be Together". I dont think it got much airtime.

WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance
10-01-2018, 12:02 AM
"He's My Sunny Boy " was the flip side to "Someday We.ll Be Together". I dont think it got much airtime.

But how many B-sides get serious airtime? I know it's happened before, but in general, don't most B-sides get ignored on the radio?

RanRan79
10-01-2018, 12:46 AM
It's a real nice number. On it's own it might have done pretty well, although I think it would need a different mix. Not a number one but possibly top 20 or 10. Definitely a better choice than "The Composer", even better than "Livin In Shame", and that went top 10.

Jaap
10-01-2018, 06:02 AM
But how many B-sides get serious airtime? I know it's happened before, but in general, don't most B-sides get ignored on the radio?

One of the most famous examples is "I'll Will Survive" by Gloria Gaynor, which was actually the flip-side of "Substitute" but became a hit when the dj-s started playing the b-side instead.

Something similar [[though with much less impact on the charts) happened to The Supremes "The Young Folks," the b-side of "No Matter What Sign You Are."

But yes, you are right, most often it doesn't happen. What I always found intriguing is that for royalties it doesn't matter whether it is an A or B side. Janie Bradford has said at a couple occasions that she really appreciated that Diana Ross picked "I am Me" as the b-side of "Muscles."

WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance
10-01-2018, 10:55 AM
One of the most famous examples is "I'll Will Survive" by Gloria Gaynor, which was actually the flip-side of "Substitute" but became a hit when the dj-s started playing the b-side instead.

Something similar [[though with much less impact on the charts) happened to The Supremes "The Young Folks," the b-side of "No Matter What Sign You Are."

But yes, you are right, most often it doesn't happen. What I always found intriguing is that for royalties it doesn't matter whether it is an A or B side. Janie Bradford has said at a couple occasions that she really appreciated that Diana Ross picked "I am Me" as the b-side of "Muscles."

Wow! Like they say, "you learn something new everyday." I didn't realize "I
Will Survive was actually the b-side! Now that's a pretty awesome example of how sometimes a flip side does get attention.

I also recall reading about "The Young Folks" getting airplay. Seems this song always divides fans, but I do think it's a good song. Maybe because it doesn't try so hard to sound relevant. It's just a nice gentle sort of song that says what it has to say. I definitely would play that one more than the a side.

Oh if only they still sold singles...I'd be very happy to score a flip side on a hit single!

johnjeb
10-01-2018, 11:05 AM
I've always thought almost any of the songs from the Love Child album would have been a better single than Shame, and especially better than Composer and Sign.

I do like Sunny Boy very much but I think the album version of Honey Bee would have been a definite Top Ten.

RanRan79
10-01-2018, 11:17 AM
Wow! Like they say, "you learn something new everyday." I didn't realize "I
Will Survive was actually the b-side! Now that's a pretty awesome example of how sometimes a flip side does get attention.

I also recall reading about "The Young Folks" getting airplay. Seems this song always divides fans, but I do think it's a good song. Maybe because it doesn't try so hard to sound relevant. It's just a nice gentle sort of song that says what it has to say. I definitely would play that one more than the a side.

Oh if only they still sold singles...I'd be very happy to score a flip side on a hit single!

I've always liked "The Young Folks" but only because of Diana's vocal. I think the song is a bit silly and the instrumentation kind of off, but I love the way she sings it and so that becomes the attraction for me. I've always been surprised that it's the one b side of the Supremes to chart. There were certainly a couple of others that I would've imagined djs flipping over to play.

RanRan79
10-01-2018, 11:20 AM
I've always thought almost any of the songs from the Love Child album would have been a better single than Shame, and especially better than Composer and Sign.

I do like Sunny Boy very much but I think the album version of Honey Bee would have been a definite Top Ten.

I think "No Matter" was a good choice for a single that ultimately didn't work. I can understand why Motown thought they might have a hit on their hands. I can also understand why the public ultimately thought there were many other records worth their time over that one. I can not understand who heard "The Composer" and thought it was a winner. I get "I'm Livin In Shame", I just think it's a crappy song. I feel if "Shame" could become a hit, so could "Sunny Boy". And I agree, most of the songs on Love Child had single potential.

johnjeb
10-01-2018, 12:08 PM
I've always liked "The Young Folks" but only because of Diana's vocal. I think the song is a bit silly and the instrumentation kind of off, but I love the way she sings it and so that becomes the attraction for me. I've always been surprised that it's the one b side of the Supremes to chart. There were certainly a couple of others that I would've imagined djs flipping over to play.

I was always amazed that some strong B-sides didn't chart. Even EIGAY which appeared to be in heavy rotation on Boston stations didn't chart. I even thought Going Down for the Third Time would have seen some action on the charts.

I think by 1967 DJs at larger stations weren't flipping too many singles as corporate playlists became more the thing. Also, promo copies were more prevalent with the same song on both sides. I was at a record hop in '67 that a popular radio DJ hosted. I requested he play There's No Stopping Us Now, which his station had been playing regularly. He told me he only had the promo copy, which he showed me. That was my first exposure to promo copies!

I know Billboard's review of the single Love Is Here also prominently reviewed the flip TNSUN and referred to the it as a double-sided hit. My local Mom & Pop record shop had TNSUN as the A-side until I mentioned the Billboard review. I'm not sure if Billboard reviewed Young Folks before it received radio play or after.

johnjeb
10-01-2018, 12:18 PM
I think "No Matter" was a good choice for a single that ultimately didn't work. I can understand why Motown thought they might have a hit on their hands. I can also understand why the public ultimately thought there were many other records worth their time over that one. I can not understand who heard "The Composer" and thought it was a winner. I get "I'm Livin In Shame", I just think it's a crappy song. I feel if "Shame" could become a hit, so could "Sunny Boy". And I agree, most of the songs on Love Child had single potential.

Of course I loved every single when it was released. Maybe it was the music, the melody or Diana's voice. Most of the singles after Reflections I rarely play. I enjoy them [[except Shame) when I hear them but I almost never get an urge to play some of them.

I understand now that every release had a purpose more than just being a good song. Shame continued the theme of social-consciousness following Love Child. I think Composer and Sign were last-ditch efforts by Smokey and Berry to each score a big hit with DRATS before Diana Ross went solo.

RanRan79
10-01-2018, 03:16 PM
I was always amazed that some strong B-sides didn't chart. Even EIGAY which appeared to be in heavy rotation on Boston stations didn't chart. I even thought Going Down for the Third Time would have seen some action on the charts.

I think by 1967 DJs at larger stations weren't flipping too many singles as corporate playlists became more the thing. Also, promo copies were more prevalent with the same song on both sides. I was at a record hop in '67 that a popular radio DJ hosted. I requested he play There's No Stopping Us Now, which his station had been playing regularly. He told me he only had the promo copy, which he showed me. That was my first exposure to promo copies!

I know Billboard's review of the single Love Is Here also prominently reviewed the flip TNSUN and referred to the it as a double-sided hit. My local Mom & Pop record shop had TNSUN as the A-side until I mentioned the Billboard review. I'm not sure if Billboard reviewed Young Folks before it received radio play or after.

I would've thought "Going Down" would've gotten radio play. I also thought "I'm In Love Again" was worthy enough of it's own A side so it's surprising that it didn't chart either.

RanRan79
10-01-2018, 03:29 PM
I think Composer and Sign were last-ditch efforts by Smokey and Berry to each score a big hit with DRATS before Diana Ross went solo.

I never thought about this but you may be right. Wow.

johnjeb
10-01-2018, 04:53 PM
I would've thought "Going Down" would've gotten radio play. I also thought "I'm In Love Again" was worthy enough of it's own A side so it's surprising that it didn't chart either.

By the time "Going Down" was released as the B-side to "Reflections" it had already been released on the HDH album 6 months earlier. That might have diminished any efforts by DJs to flip the single for occasional airplay. I think the opportunity for GDFTTT had passed. I think it might have hit anytime between YKMHO and R, but not after.

Maybe if an A-side was strong DJs didn't play the B-side despite it being solid [[as many Motown B-sides were in the mid 60s). I recall DJs mentioning that they played "Everything Is Good About You" because they preferred it to "My World".

I agree about "I'm In Love Again". I was very surprised that IILA, and "He's All I Got", didn't make it to the GH album. They were stronger B-sides, imo, than "Crossroads" and "Whisper", although good in their own right, which are on GH.

I'm not aware if there was any attempt by some DJs to flip "Someday" and also play "Sunny Boy", on occasion - I didn't have access to AM radio from my college dorm. I saw them sing "Someday" on Hollywood Palace but didn't hear it again until Christmas break and upon receiving Cream of the Crop for Christmas. I never thought of asking friends if they ever recall hearing SB on the radio, at the time. But as I mentioned in a previous post, flipping singles became rare, unless exceptional.

marybrewster
10-01-2018, 05:47 PM
I'm sure "The Composer" was released simply because it was a Smokey composition. BG was desperate to get that one last hit and was willing to try anything.


Interestingly, "The Composer" for as much as everyone seems to dislike it, did better on the charts than "Forever Came Today" which many think is a lyrical masterpiece.

marybrewster
10-01-2018, 05:51 PM
And as far as b sides go: anyone ever heard of "Unchained Melody" by the Righteous Brothers? :)

sup_fan
10-01-2018, 06:19 PM
haha - ok i'll keep my anti-smokey tirade to a minimum. I think Sunny Boy is ridiculous lol. the lyrics are almost as bad as Shame. "looks good in everything from silk to corduroy. or mohair!" or walking from Idaho to Illinois :rolleyes:

i do think the backing musical track is pretty strong, the horns especially. but i don't think this would have been a very powerful single release. it was recorded in April 68. it's just too cutesy and lightweight to really have had much more impact than Some Things or Composer.

during this time there was such a surge in music with a heavier r&b feel to it. of the Sups were never really going to be heavy-duty soul sisters. But after the excellent pop and r&b music they released between 64 - 67, i think heavier music like Evening Train, Beginning of the End of Love, Discover Me, Wish I knew, stormy, you gave me love, you're gonna hear from me, the beginning fo the end would have all been better single choices than Sunny Boy, Composer, Sign

Reflections was an amazing song. as a follow up, i think In and Out was too weak. Going all the way to true true love might have work. or maybe Bah Bah Bah [[perhaps with the original title of Hold Me In Your Arms - at least i think that's what i read was original title)

Forever - this is tough. maybe with some re-editing and rework, the song could have been more single-friendly. but might have been time to move on and not release a 3rd track from Refl lp. or maybe Am I Asking Too Much or I'm Gonna make it

Some Things - i don't dislike the song. but man, there's a TON going on. heavy production. maybe a bit too silly with the castanets and all. Maybe What It's To the Top would have done better. Beginning of the end of love could have been released at this time too

Love child - perfect

LC follow up - evening train. Shame's track is amazing but the lyrics are among the worse of the entire recorded catalog of the Sups. major rewrites might have saved it

Composer - maybe stormy. it's not as sad of lyric as LC or Evening Train but still a mature sound. Discover Me would also work here

The Weight - they should have release Why [[must we fall in love)

Sign - the track is sort of cool but this is just a cheap rip off of Aquarius. see my alt ideas for Composer and any of them could have worked here too. or maybe You Gave Me Love

Someday - perfect

luke
10-01-2018, 07:14 PM
I thought Forever Came Today made the top 25 and Composer stalled at like# 31. The music and vocals were great on NMWSYA. If the lyrics were different I think it could have been a smash. It just couldn’t be taken seriously.

marybrewster
10-01-2018, 07:44 PM
Shame -10
Composer - 27
Forever - 28
Some Things - 30
No Matter What Sign - 31

luke
10-01-2018, 08:21 PM
Ok. Thanks for info.

thommg
10-02-2018, 04:53 PM
Shame -10
Composer - 27
Forever - 28
Some Things - 30
No Matter What Sign - 31

On Cashbox, it appears that Forever Came Today reached #13 & The Composer made it to 21.

TheMotownManiac
10-02-2018, 07:18 PM
haha - ok i'll keep my anti-smokey tirade to a minimum. I think Sunny Boy is ridiculous lol. the lyrics are almost as bad as Shame. "looks good in everything from silk to corduroy. or mohair!" or walking from Idaho to Illinois :rolleyes:

i do think the backing musical track is pretty strong, the horns especially. but i don't think this would have been a very powerful single release. it was recorded in April 68. it's just too cutesy and lightweight to really have had much more impact than Some Things or Composer.

during this time there was such a surge in music with a heavier r&b feel to it. of the Sups were never really going to be heavy-duty soul sisters. But after the excellent pop and r&b music they released between 64 - 67, i think heavier music like Evening Train, Beginning of the End of Love, Discover Me, Wish I knew, stormy, you gave me love, you're gonna hear from me, the beginning fo the end would have all been better single choices than Sunny Boy, Composer, Sign

Reflections was an amazing song. as a follow up, i think In and Out was too weak. Going all the way to true true love might have work. or maybe Bah Bah Bah [[perhaps with the original title of Hold Me In Your Arms - at least i think that's what i read was original title)

Forever - this is tough. maybe with some re-editing and rework, the song could have been more single-friendly. but might have been time to move on and not release a 3rd track from Refl lp. or maybe Am I Asking Too Much or I'm Gonna make it

Some Things - i don't dislike the song. but man, there's a TON going on. heavy production. maybe a bit too silly with the castanets and all. Maybe What It's To the Top would have done better. Beginning of the end of love could have been released at this time too

Love child - perfect

LC follow up - evening train. Shame's track is amazing but the lyrics are among the worse of the entire recorded catalog of the Sups. major rewrites might have saved it

Composer - maybe stormy. it's not as sad of lyric as LC or Evening Train but still a mature sound. Discover Me would also work here

The Weight - they should have release Why [[must we fall in love)

Sign - the track is sort of cool but this is just a cheap rip off of Aquarius. see my alt ideas for Composer and any of them could have worked here too. or maybe You Gave Me Love

Someday - perfect


I agree with with you about Sunny Boy - cloying lyrics, no melody, no hook, no chorus, raspy Diana, weak bg vocals with a great horn arrangement. I don’t think it would have gone top 50 as a single. It had little R&B cred, no Easy Listening cred and weak pop commercial appeal. Who would program this over Crimson and Clover, Hair and Aquarius? If you listen to the top 25 songs in 1969, you would see that there is no way on gods green earth this would get on any playlists…… It had nothing. It’s nowhere near as strong as I’m living in Shane which only got to the top 10 on the strength of the previous two platinum singles still on the chart when It got released. And even then, just for a week or two.

I think the composer got released because they didn’t have anything…… And 1 million monkeys with 1 million typewriters could listen to everything that they had on the group at the time I am not here A hit. I am certain it got chosen as the lesser of so many evils, and not because they felt they had anything strong.
I knew a few girls who liked the composer Because of the vocal bridge especially which she does a good job on.

NMWSYA I think you had a lot going for it except you couldn’t follow the lyrics and was a tad over produced for transistor radio‘s. I think I somewhat cleaner mix With a stronger enunciated lead vocal would have hit big. I never heard anyone say it was an Aquarius rip off until 40 years later in this forum.

sup_fan
10-03-2018, 12:20 AM
I agree that Composer is a mystery. Can’t imagine anyone legitimately thinking it would be a significant hit. The only I can assume is that its a Smokey production and given his VP position in the company and his relationship w BG he got a green light to try and find a hit on DRATS. And out of his various productions on DRATS maybe you could say this is the strongest? Treat Me Nice John Henry is idiotic. As is Sunny Boy and Sweet Thing. Perhaps Are You Sure Love Is The Name Of This Game might have done a little better

NMWSYA was only released because Berry produced it and Aquarius was such a rage. A foolish release, yes. But at least somewhat explainable.

What is Sign had actually charted somewhat decently? What if it had peaked at #9 or something. Would they have counted that as good enough to get D out of the group?

Circa 1824
10-03-2018, 08:01 AM
Diana was at her vocal peak during this period. Her awesome vocals made many average songs sound great.

sup_fan
10-03-2018, 10:21 AM
actually i don't agree that this was Diana's vocal peak. 1968 could also be know as the "hiccup" era lol when she'd do that annoying vocal affectation. she was also really pushing the brightness of her vowels and the nasality of her tone while singing live

i think the Billie Holiday phase of her career helped immensely with her vocal development.

IMO her vocal best is the late 70s. her voice is amazing on the HBO special during The Boss tour, her vocals on that lp are among her strongest of her entire career. And listen to her debut of the title track on The Tonight show. she's singing live and sounds amazing!

gman
10-03-2018, 10:55 AM
Perhaps as a single it would have worked in '67.....it was far too fluff for 1969. I worked in a bar that had a hard classic rock jukebox. I used my own 45's most of the time [['79 -'82) at different times I put Love Child, I'm Living In Shame and Someday We'll Be Together in.....they got played a lot....the B sides, surprisingly to me considering the crowd, also got played a lot...I'm So Glad I Got Somebody in particular was well liked by my aging hippy and younger Ac/Dc & New Wave customers.

RanRan79
10-03-2018, 01:32 PM
actually i don't agree that this was Diana's vocal peak. 1968 could also be know as the "hiccup" era lol when she'd do that annoying vocal affectation. she was also really pushing the brightness of her vowels and the nasality of her tone while singing live

i think the Billie Holiday phase of her career helped immensely with her vocal development.

IMO her vocal best is the late 70s. her voice is amazing on the HBO special during The Boss tour, her vocals on that lp are among her strongest of her entire career. And listen to her debut of the title track on The Tonight show. she's singing live and sounds amazing!

Yeah, Diana in the late 60s was kind of all over the place. There's the hiccup thing that was annoying as hell. [[And then Florence even appropriated this for some of solo work. What made either of them think this crap was cute?) She had this raspyness to her vocals sometimes. I love it on some stuff, while on others it doesn't work.

I know in the 60s she worked with vocal coaches, but I think when she started doing the Billie Holiday stuff is when she really started studying the art of singing, if you will. By the mid 70s her voice was doing more heavy lifting IMO and not sounding so thin. Of course she was killing it by the time of The Wiz and The Boss and to my ears she retained a fantastic range throughout the 80s and 90s. Very fine vocal form [[moreso live than recorded because, during the RCA years, she often chose songs that she could nearly whisper through rather than showcase her true abilities). It was only during the 2000s that her voice seemed to decline.

Guy
10-03-2018, 09:30 PM
There is video of my 2 year old self boogying to "He's My Sunny Boy." That song is soundtrack to my earliest memories.

144man
10-04-2018, 07:23 PM
Diana was at her vocal peak during this period. Her awesome vocals made many average songs sound great.

As early as 1962, Diana Ross pulled off a perfect vocal performance on "Play A Sad Song". Brilliant.

RanRan79
10-04-2018, 07:36 PM
As early as 1962, Diana Ross pulled off a perfect vocal performance on "Play A Sad Song". Brilliant.

Hell yeah. She sang that. Still can't understand how someone can listen to that song and either say [[a) the lady can't sing or [[b) that she didn't sing with soul.

luke
10-04-2018, 07:54 PM
I like Diana’s “do do dos” and it’s nice to hear Cindy and Mary on a song!!

blkfrost
10-04-2018, 09:28 PM
I'm sure "The Composer" was released simply because it was a Smokey composition. BG was desperate to get that one last hit and was willing to try anything.


Interestingly, "The Composer" for as much as everyone seems to dislike it, did better on the charts than "Forever Came Today" which many think is a lyrical masterpiece.

I have always preferred "The Composer" over "Forever", but I truly love "He's My Sunny Boy" and thought it would have been a perfect single. Had that summertime beat to it.

144man
10-12-2018, 02:09 PM
I find it really confusing that they recorded a song called "He's My Sunny Boy" when they had already recorded the similarly titled "Honey Boy".

mysterysinger
10-12-2018, 02:15 PM
That's why when I see the title of Sunny Boy I always think of Little Lisa.

144man
10-12-2018, 02:20 PM
I had the HDH song going through my brain with the wrong words and wondered why no one had mentioned the Mary Wells version.

daviddh
10-13-2018, 10:40 AM
I always thought Forever Came Today sounded like a demo that was rush released. if any supremes song needs a remix it would be this. but I never bought into this song because I knew it wasn't the Supremes. I eventually got over it.
Somethings / great Ross vocal! not a single
Love Child. / excellent track
Composer/ Livin In Shame / hated both. any song from Love Child would have been better than either. my vote.. Ill Set You Free
The Weight/ nope good but should have stayed an lp track
Why Must We Fall In Love / great track n vocal
No Matter What Sign. I like it but think it would have been a hit in 67.not 69.
I think Motown was starting to miss the mark, a thing of things to come for Ross solo and the 70s Supremes. the cracks were already here
yes my vote for Sunny Boy. I can actually listen to it. not the others...sorry to say

daviddh
10-13-2018, 11:02 AM
I also liked Stormy and the gem Beginning Of The End Of Love from the pink box set.

rovereab
10-14-2018, 07:08 PM
The drums on Forever Came Today sound much too weak. Just beefing the song up with some Detroit drumming would have helped significantly IMO.

I don't see Sunny Boy as a strong enough song for a UK a-side.

Motown UK were spot on with releasing Why [[Must We Fall In Love) as an a-side instead of The Weight. Diana's vocals on this song are superb.

TheMotownManiac
10-15-2018, 02:22 AM
All the vocals on Why are superb - but Diana’s are the best of the Tempts duets and the best that year save for maybe Someday.

rovereab
10-15-2018, 03:56 AM
Spine tingling when Diana sings:

"Baby the air that I breathe you will take when you leave
All because of this something small
Like the day I missed your call
I tried to get in touch with you
When I finally did you said we''re through"

Circa 1824
10-19-2018, 04:02 PM
Diana was at her vocal peak during this period. Her awesome vocals made many average songs sound great.

I said this because she had many many number one records during this period. This is the time the world fell in love with her voice. I loved her voice during this time because one occasionally still hear her midwestern accent when she sang. Her vocal style became more "classically trained" after Lady Sings the Blues, but I also loved her voice and vocal styling prior to the film career.

Circa 1824
10-19-2018, 04:03 PM
Spine tingling when Diana sings:

"Baby the air that I breathe you will take when you leave
All because of this something small
Like the day I missed your call
I tried to get in touch with you
When I finally did you said we''re through"

I agree 1000000%. It is one of her greatest vocals ever.

daviddh
10-20-2018, 10:30 AM
looking 4ward to the Reflections expanded. I want to hear what Kevin Reeves does with Forever Came Today

Circa 1824
10-21-2018, 08:36 AM
All the vocals on Why are superb - but Diana’s are the best of the Tempts duets and the best that year save for maybe Someday.

It is very difficult to understand what Eddie is singing, and this hurts the song's enjoyment.

daviddh
10-21-2018, 10:21 AM
Spine tingling when Diana sings:

"Baby the air that I breathe you will take when you leave
All because of this something small
Like the day I missed your call
I tried to get in touch with you
When I finally did you said we''re through"
best song and vocal on that lp

daviddh
10-21-2018, 10:24 AM
somehow i think motown was loosing their touch with some of these releases.
some will complain that motown didnt support the 70s line up but to me the trouble had already started here in 1968 and would continue thru the 70s for both Diana and the Supremes .sometimes they got it right while other times they missed it by the wrong release or lack of pr