PDA

View Full Version : Floís only solo?


test

luke
09-16-2018, 06:44 PM
On national television...https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OsW9NTfHoos

blackguy69
09-16-2018, 07:30 PM
I think so

marv2
09-16-2018, 08:50 PM
On the old Sammy Davis Jr show when they traded songs with the Andrews Sisters, Flo was right in front of the mic and it sounded like she was doing most of the leads.

RanRan79
09-17-2018, 09:39 AM
Not Flo's finest moment, which is a shame considering this is, as far as I know, the only time during her Supremes years that she sang a partial lead on national television.

floyjoy678
09-17-2018, 09:49 AM
I agree. This whole performance was awkward. Flo should have sung her verse in a higher key, similar to Diana. Mary looks miserable on this, the whole shindig episode she doesn't look happy. And Mary and Flo's microphones are pretty much turned off for this song too except their verses.

Motown Eddie
09-17-2018, 10:05 AM
On national television...https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OsW9NTfHoos

Thanks a lot for sharing this clip Luke. It's truly notable for giving Flo & Mary solo spots [[and as Marv2 posted, the only other time that Flo got a solo spot on national TV was on The Sammy Davis Jr. Show featuring The Andrews Sisters).

luke
09-17-2018, 10:23 AM
Your welcome MotownEddie. It was a weird arrangement and sounded more like a dirge. But great to see them each get a solo. Mary belted her line out!

midnightman
09-17-2018, 12:54 PM
Hmm, Flo seems a little nervous there...

RanRan79
09-17-2018, 03:34 PM
I don't think she sounds nervous. I think the mistake is in her approach. To Floyjoy's point, Florence should've sung her verse a bit higher. Add to that the fact that even though all three are singing leads on the song, Diana's mic is clearly higher than Flo and Mary's, so that also affects the sound. Not one of my fav performances of the group I rarely listen to it, not even when Luke posted it. But now I've just checked it out and Flo sounds a little better than I remember and Mary doesn't sound much better than Flo, so I definitely think the mics volumes are a component. Diana sounds fine.

I wish they had sang "House of the Rising Sun" instead. Hoping the mics would all be at the same level, I think Flo would've done a better job. IMO "House" on the Liverpool album should've been Flo's lead alone. Diana and Mary do a fine job on it too, but I think it was suited for Flo's voice.

luke
09-17-2018, 04:01 PM
Wasn’t Flo supposed to do the lead on House of The Rising sun originally?

antceleb12
09-17-2018, 08:57 PM
Wasn’t Flo supposed to do the lead on House of The Rising sun originally?

Probably just a rumor. However, Florence is clearly leading "I Saw Him Standing There" and "Not Fade Away."

Not sure why people don't like Flo on "Eight Days a Week." I think she sounds perfect here. She adds a subtle twang on "mind" and a little run on "time," which is just enough of a change to the melody to make it her own.

RanRan79
09-18-2018, 10:24 AM
Wasn’t Flo supposed to do the lead on House of The Rising sun originally?

Don't know, but she should have.

sup_fan
09-18-2018, 10:39 AM
Wasn’t Flo supposed to do the lead on House of The Rising sun originally?

i believe that was a rumor. the only place i've read that was in Randall Wilson's book Forever Faithful. and i don't believe he cited what source said she was scheduled to lead that. similar to Tony Turner's claim that Flo was to sing These Boots Are Made For Walking

It could be that when Randall was doing research and interviews for the book he spoke with someone that recalled Flo was supposed to do some sort of lead on Liverpool but maybe they couldn't remember the track and since she did I Saw Him Standing [[which was unreleased) they were guessing

midnightman
09-18-2018, 12:02 PM
I agree about HOTRS being more Flo's thing...

lucky2012
09-18-2018, 12:58 PM
I agree about HOTRS being more Flo's thing...
Wouldn't that have been great?!

blackguy69
09-18-2018, 01:34 PM
On the old Sammy Davis Jr show when they traded songs with the Andrews Sisters, Flo was right in front of the mic and it sounded like she was doing most of the leads.they were all singing in Unison. Luke was asking if she did a solo lead on tv

RanRan79
09-18-2018, 08:19 PM
they were all singing in Unison. Luke was asking if she did a solo lead on tv

That's one of the group's best tv performances IMO. They really shined in their harmonizing.

marv2
09-18-2018, 08:29 PM
they were all singing in Unison. Luke was asking if she did a solo lead on tv

I know. I saw the show. I said it sounded like Flo was doing most of the leads. Her voice was just that dominant.

luke
09-19-2018, 03:12 PM
Is this really the Supremes? The only one I hear is Flo, maybe !https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PWk7B6wsB9k

RanRan79
09-20-2018, 12:05 PM
Is this really the Supremes? The only one I hear is Flo, maybe !https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PWk7B6wsB9k

It's "How Do You Do It" from the Liverpool album. I hear all three of them, but Flo and Diana's voices seem to blend together so well on this that it almost sounds like one voice and Mary. I can still barely tell who is Flo and who is Diana if I listen closely. Believe it or not this might be the second time in my life that I've ever listened to this song.

lucky2012
09-20-2018, 12:33 PM
It's "How Do You Do It" from the Liverpool album. I hear all three of them, but Flo and Diana's voices seem to blend together so well on this that it almost sounds like one voice and Mary. I can still barely tell who is Flo and who is Diana if I listen closely. Believe it or not this might be the second time in my life that I've ever listened to this song.
Exactly. This sounded strange from the first. Like a cartoon voice. Maybe the third or fourth time I've listened to the song.

reese
09-20-2018, 02:03 PM
It's "How Do You Do It" from the Liverpool album. I hear all three of them, but Flo and Diana's voices seem to blend together so well on this that it almost sounds like one voice and Mary. I can still barely tell who is Flo and who is Diana if I listen closely. Believe it or not this might be the second time in my life that I've ever listened to this song.

I really hear Diana's tone come through when they sang the line "Suppose that you think you're very smart. Won't you tell me how do you do it?" I think Mary does the "Zoom!" after the "like an arrow" line. :)

Not my favorite album by any means but I like how they really sound like a group on it. Plus I love DO YOU LOVE ME.

luke
09-20-2018, 03:44 PM
Ranran...it’s my first time! I will be drummed out of Supremes Society. It does sound cartoonish!

midnightman
09-20-2018, 03:47 PM
Wouldn't that have been great?!

For real. Would've done great for the Supremes' reputation. That song was more her speed than say People lol

midnightman
09-20-2018, 03:48 PM
It's "How Do You Do It" from the Liverpool album. I hear all three of them, but Flo and Diana's voices seem to blend together so well on this that it almost sounds like one voice and Mary. I can still barely tell who is Flo and who is Diana if I listen closely. Believe it or not this might be the second time in my life that I've ever listened to this song.

In many of the Liverpool tracks, Diana and Flo blended well. Mary was the odd voice out. I noticed how strong Diana and Flo were in the background when Mary did a lead. That's some POWER.

sup_fan
09-20-2018, 06:07 PM
I'm guessing that they were trying to be "playful" with this album. Listen to how they pronounce some of the words on Hard Day's Night. i guess they're trying to be British?!? lolol Same with the outro on I Saw Him Standing There, with Flo goofing off. Maybe the whole point of the lp wasn't for artistic mastery but playful fun. :rolleyes:

And i do agree, Flo would have rocked Rising Sun. that's such a soulful tune to begin with.

What about Flo leading Rock n Roll Banjo Band? lololol Also would have liked hearing her on Funny How Time, although i do like D's vocal on this

i do think she would done wonders on the R&H set of lead on Manhattan and Johnny One Note.

On There's A Place For Us, i would have dropped People to begin with lol. I just don't really care for the song regardless of the singer. and Flo's rendition, frankly, doesn't make me believe Berry made a mistake by relegating her to the backgrounds. it's not a strong performance. maybe mostly cuz is so damn slow!!! and that's certainly not Flo's fault. I've heard funeral dirges that aren't so plodding.

Anyway, Flo could have sassed up Rock a Bye your Baby!

RanRan79
09-20-2018, 08:03 PM
I always thought "Rock and Roll Banjo" was a duet between Flo and Diana because I couldn't even hear Mary. But at some point, on closer listening I can hear Mary, but it still sounds like a Flo/Diana duet. On C&W I would've given Flo "Funny" over Diana, although IMO it's one of Diana's best vocals. On Sam Cooke, Flo should've led "A Change Is Gonna Come". I would've given Flo the lead on "Honey Boy" on More Hits, "Yesterday" on Symphony, "These Boots" on A GoGo, "Heat Wave" on HDH, and "Manhattan" on R&H.

And I agree, Flo would've done great with "Rock a Bye Your Baby".

midnightman
09-20-2018, 08:44 PM
I still love Flo's rendition of "Good News" and Diana and Mary being gospel in the bg! Probably my favorite of the Sam Cooke covers.

sup_fan
09-21-2018, 10:36 AM
oh god - listen to her hideous Yesterday on the ABC album. lord no she should NOT have sung that on the Symphony set lol

Maybe Wonderful Wonderful. Unchained Melody might have worked. or maybe Without A Song - she could have souled up the ending and really hit the high note

here's how i might have split up more leads:

WDOLG - maybe Flo do full lead on Long Gone Lover. mary would have been wonderful on He Means The World To Me or I'm Giving You Your Freedom

Liverpool - Flo on House and Mary on Because

CW&P - mary full on Sunset and Flo on Funny

Sam Cooke - Flo on News and mary on Change

More Hits - Mary on Whisper and Flo on maybe Mother Dear or Only Time I'm Happy. i'm not a huge fan of Only Time. little too sing-songy. maybe Flo could have added some soul and depth to it

Christmas - Mary on Christmas Song [[this is an AMAZING vocal from her, even though only partially released). Flo on Silent or Holy but good lord. pick the speed up a little. they drag horribly

Symphony - Mary on Yesterday, Flo on Without A Song

A Go Go - mary on Memories, Flo on Boots

HDH - mary on Mother You, Smother You, Flo on Going Down Third Time

R&H - mary on falling in love, flo on johnny one note

RanRan79
09-21-2018, 10:42 AM
I still love Flo's rendition of "Good News" and Diana and Mary being gospel in the bg! Probably my favorite of the Sam Cooke covers.

Yes, "Good News" is definitely the highlight of that album. The background is good, but the producer has Mary shouting over Diana and I never would've produced them that way. But Flo killed that vocal. She really shined on this one.

RanRan79
09-21-2018, 10:49 AM
oh god - listen to her hideous Yesterday on the ABC album. lord no she should NOT have sung that on the Symphony set lol

Sup you can not compare her 1968 version at another label with a different producer at a different time in her life to what she might have done at Motown under HDH's direction in 1965. Even in 1968 Florence had the chops to pull off "Yesterday", but that entire production leaves the listener[[me) thinking that when she's done singing, she's going to kill herself. Diana's version definitely gives the impression that she's sad about the whole thing, but not necessarily that her entire world has ended. Florence sounded like a woman who had ten too many at the bar, telling the bartender her problems. And like I said, after she leaves she puts a bullet in her head. It's a bad recording. I don't believe that it would've sounded anything like that on the Symphony album.

midnightman
09-21-2018, 01:04 PM
Yes, "Good News" is definitely the highlight of that album. The background is good, but the producer has Mary shouting over Diana and I never would've produced them that way. But Flo killed that vocal. She really shined on this one.

Yeah you got a point about the background... whoever produced that didn't do so well in that department.

midnightman
09-21-2018, 01:06 PM
Sup you can not compare her 1968 version at another label with a different producer at a different time in her life to what she might have done at Motown under HDH's direction in 1965. Even in 1968 Florence had the chops to pull off "Yesterday", but that entire production leaves the listener[[me) thinking that when she's done singing, she's going to kill herself. Diana's version definitely gives the impression that she's sad about the whole thing, but not necessarily that her entire world has ended. Florence sounded like a woman who had ten too many at the bar, telling the bartender her problems. And like I said, after she leaves she puts a bullet in her head. It's a bad recording. I don't believe that it would've sounded anything like that on the Symphony album.

ABC didn't know how to produce Flo and it showed. I hated that version too but I won't blame Flo. Obviously her heart wasn't in it in a sense at least when it came to this song. The way she's singing it, it's like she's saying "I ain't singing this no more" lol

sup_fan
09-21-2018, 03:25 PM
no you can't totally overlook Flo's poor vocal on that recording of Yesterday. I'm referring to her intonation, phrasing and all. She is the one doing the singing and there are too many times she's flat, her vowel placement are all over the place. phrasing is poor.

now perhaps there was another take that would have come across as better. For instance, i think the later released version of Silent Night is FAR better than the first version we got. so that part is definitely left in the hands of the producer.

but still, Flo is the one singing

antceleb12
09-22-2018, 10:49 AM
Each Supreme was given material that suited them greatly, and each of them were given material that was not right for them. For example, Diana did not have the range for "Silent Night" but Florence did. Mary kills it on "Can't Take My Eyes Off You" but wasn't quite suited for "Son of a Preacher Man." On ABC, despite the embarrassing production and arrangement of the recordings, Florence shines on some tracks and misses the mark on others. In my opinion, "My Heart" and "Going Out of Hy Head" are the standout tracks, but others like "Love Ain't Love" and "Yesterday" missed the mark.

We really get to see Diana's development from a whiny, nasal intonation to a more polished pop tone. With the relatively little lead material we have of Mary and Flo during the formative years of the Supremes, it's hard to gage where they may have gone, vocally, had they been given more support. A lot of people relegate Flo as a one-trick pony, but from what we do have, that's certainly not true.

Take "It Makes No Difference Now." On the released version, she gives her verse a brassy, country-soul, gospel-infused take. If you listen to the alternate version, however, she is much more reserved and her intonation lighter and more delicate. If you listen to "People," you get the same thing. For the majority of the song, she gives much more of a conservative performance, but delivers an impressive and controlled run at the end [[she always seemed to hold back on this run live, which is rather disappointing).

As for Mary, she was not given enough challenging material, in my opinion. What we have of "The Christmas Song" proves that Mary was very capable of rangier, more substantial material. She has a particular penchant for ballads and could have really shined on meatier material [[listen to her solo verse in the live version of "People," for instance).

For me, I would have liked to have heard the following material recorded or covered by the Supremes sung as follows:

"House of the Rising Sun" - Flo
"Because" - Mary
"Cupid" and "You Send Me" - Mary
"Bring it On Home to Me" - Flo
"A Lover's Concerto" - Mary
"Unchained Melody" - Flo
"These Boots..." - Flo
"Manhattan" - Flo only
"Johnny One Note" - Flo
"My Guy" - Mary

sup_fan
09-22-2018, 12:32 PM
Ur definitely right. Practice makes perfect and both f and m didnít have as many opportunities to do so. To explore and experiment

RanRan79
09-24-2018, 10:53 AM
ABC didn't know how to produce Flo and it showed. I hated that version too but I won't blame Flo. Obviously her heart wasn't in it in a sense at least when it came to this song. The way she's singing it, it's like she's saying "I ain't singing this no more" lol

Flo might take some of the blame, but ultimately the entire production of "Yesterday" was pretty bad, IMO.

Who was overseeing Florence at ABC? It would be interesting to find out what they were thinking. I mean someone had to get the idea to pair her with Kerr and then Bateman. [[Obvious of course that their Motown connections had something to do with it.) I've seen it written that ABC thought they were getting a Supremes singer [[ie. Diana Ross type) and then found they didn't quite know what to do with Florence. Her ABC recordings move between very good to bad. Some fans criticize Flo's voice, but personally I think the overall productions were subpar. Very few of those songs have a sound that I can imagine getting folks attention on the radio. "Love Aint Love", "Forever Faithful" and "Like You Babe", probably the exceptions. My favorite is "My Heart", but even that one I could see going either way. "Like You Babe" is probably the best case for Florence finding another label that would've recorded her doing some southern fried soul. She should've been at Stax or some such label. Imagine her with the Muscle Shoals guys like Ree and Etta.

Of course I'm not going to go hard on Flo for the ABC missteps, anymore than I would go hard on the Primettes for Lupine. The Primettes, morphing into the Supremes, spent years trying to achieve their ultimate goal. ABC was Flo's first solo go. Had she not become sidelined by what her lawyer did to her and then her eventual Motown suit and then her further financial and emotional problems, who knows what kind of body of work she may have accumulated during that time. It's unfortunate that the buck stops at ABC.

RanRan79
09-24-2018, 11:11 AM
no you can't totally overlook Flo's poor vocal on that recording of Yesterday. I'm referring to her intonation, phrasing and all. She is the one doing the singing and there are too many times she's flat, her vowel placement are all over the place. phrasing is poor.

now perhaps there was another take that would have come across as better. For instance, i think the later released version of Silent Night is FAR better than the first version we got. so that part is definitely left in the hands of the producer.

but still, Flo is the one singing

Yeah, I'm still not seeing where one has to do with the other. A singer under the direction of one producer doesn't necessarily mean the singer is going to give the same performance under the direction of another producer. ABC's "Yesterday" has a dreadful arrangement- obviously the producer's choice- and whether Flo chose to sing it the way she did or was directed to sing it that way, the variables are not the same for determining what you might have gotten had she recorded the same song a few years earlier under HDH. Give Diana Ross ABC's "Yesterday" and it won't sound like the one she did on the Symphony album either. Look at "It's Not Unusual". Flo's solo version sucks. Had she been given the lead on the HDH version during the A Go Go sessions, I'm willing to bet it would've sounded like a different Florence.

What we do agree on is the alternate of "Silent Night". I think it has a better vocal. To my ears "Yesterday" is the best candidate for a Flo vocal on Symphony, maybe "With a Song In My Heart". But I think the best person for the job of "Yesterday" might have been Mary. I don't particularly care for Diana's vocal on the song, but I think Mary would've really done it justice.

thommg
09-24-2018, 11:18 AM
I wonder how many of the tracks on Flo's ABC album were actually finished tracks. Some of the songs sound like run-throughs rather than a completed performance from Flo.

sup_fan
09-24-2018, 02:26 PM
Yeah, I'm still not seeing where one has to do with the other. A singer under the direction of one producer doesn't necessarily mean the singer is going to give the same performance under the direction of another producer. ABC's "Yesterday" has a dreadful arrangement- obviously the producer's choice- and whether Flo chose to sing it the way she did or was directed to sing it that way, the variables are not the same for determining what you might have gotten had she recorded the same song a few years earlier under HDH. Give Diana Ross ABC's "Yesterday" and it won't sound like the one she did on the Symphony album either. Look at "It's Not Unusual". Flo's solo version sucks. Had she been given the lead on the HDH version during the A Go Go sessions, I'm willing to bet it would've sounded like a different Florence.

What we do agree on is the alternate of "Silent Night". I think it has a better vocal. To my ears "Yesterday" is the best candidate for a Flo vocal on Symphony, maybe "With a Song In My Heart". But I think the best person for the job of "Yesterday" might have been Mary. I don't particularly care for Diana's vocal on the song, but I think Mary would've really done it justice.

Silent Night basically illustrates my point. it's the same producer on both and yet Flo's vocals are quite a bit better on the second. sure the producer is going to give guidance and direction on how they're wanting the singer to approach things. and of course sometimes producers might over dominate a track and smother a singer. But typically if the singer is singing flat, that's the singer's mistake. i can't imagine too many producers requesting someone come in under the pitch

franjoy56
09-26-2018, 09:54 PM
Silent Night basically illustrates my point. it's the same producer on both and yet Flo's vocals are quite a bit better on the second. sure the producer is going to give guidance and direction on how they're wanting the singer to approach things. and of course sometimes producers might over dominate a track and smother a singer. But typically if the singer is singing flat, that's the singer's mistake. i can't imagine too many producers requesting someone come in under the pitch i believe the 2nd sullivan appearance fall 65 flo got t recite her solo klne on tv. "Give me that gold and ill do my own shopping"

marv2
09-26-2018, 10:07 PM
i believe the 2nd sullivan appearance fall 65 flo got t recite her solo klne on tv. "Give me that gold and ill do my own shopping"

That's true. I remember that.