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Koach
08-06-2018, 10:55 PM
I was thinking, while the RCA Years is my favorite compilation CD of Ms. Ross's solo work, a lot of great tracks were left out. One is also lacking for her also great 90s tracks. Which sons would you include on new CDs?

Bluebrock
08-07-2018, 02:33 AM
I was thinking, while the RCA Years is my favorite compilation CD of Ms. Ross's solo work, a lot of great tracks were left out. One is also lacking for her also great 90s tracks. Which sons would you include on new CDs?
I would just press ahead with the expanded versions of the later Motown sets. The rca albums have already been expanded albeit without previously unreleased tracks, so i don't really see the point of another meaningless compilation. I just don't know who would be interested in such a compilation. Diehard fans will already have the songs, whilst casual fans are unlikely to be drawn to a compilation containing what would be fairly obscure songs to them.

lucky2012
08-07-2018, 09:21 AM
I would just press ahead with the expanded versions of the later Motown sets. The rca albums have already been expanded albeit without previously unreleased tracks, so i don't really see the point of another meaningless compilation. I just don't know who would be interested in such a compilation. Diehard fans will already have the songs, whilst casual fans are unlikely to be drawn to a compilation containing what would be fairly obscure songs to them.
Hi Bluebrock, I always find your posts informative, with a unique perspective none of us have been privileged with. I agree about pursuing expanded editions of Diana's return to Motown albums [[I still like to call them albums). That would be great, more so than the RCA sets, which, like you said, had no previously unreleased tracks.
Yes, a compilation would only be of interest to us die-hard fans. However, in an alternate, fantasy world, where such a compilation would be deemed profitable, I'm curious to know what 15-20 tracks would you choose? Which would you think Diana would choose?

sup_fan
08-07-2018, 10:37 AM
given the lackluster sales and/or critical response to most of her albums post 1981, i think doing much more would be a challenge. at least in terms of how they're approaching the current Sups expanded editions. to re-release each lp with expanded content would probably not go over well except with the most die-hard fans. But something like a Lost & Found might work. a 2 cd set made up of remixes of the hits, alternate tracks, unreleased content would be welcome. it could go in sequential order and focus on the makings of with each album.

Bluebrock
08-08-2018, 09:17 AM
Hi Bluebrock, I always find your posts informative, with a unique perspective none of us have been privileged with. I agree about pursuing expanded editions of Diana's return to Motown albums [[I still like to call them albums). That would be great, more so than the RCA sets, which, like you said, had no previously unreleased tracks.
Yes, a compilation would only be of interest to us die-hard fans. However, in an alternate, fantasy world, where such a compilation would be deemed profitable, I'm curious to know what 15-20 tracks would you choose? Which would you think Diana would choose?
Hi lucky2012. Thank you for your kind words.
I am not the biggest fan of the rca years. In my opinion she released some real dross during this period, but i also think there were some gems along the way.
If i had to choose 3 songs from each of the rca albums i would go as follows
WDFFIL - Mirror, mirror, Sweet surrender, Two can make it.
SE - Love lies, Anywhere you run to, Who.
Ross83 - You do it, Let's go up, Love will make it right.
Swept away - Missing you, touch by touch, Swept away.
Eaten Alive - Crimes of passion, I love being in love with you, Love on the line.
RHRAB - It's hard for me to say, cross my heart, summertime.


As regards Diana, i know she would choose the title song from WDFFIL and sweet nothins'. She loved those songs. She liked I AM ME from silk electric which i hated with a passion, and she liked SO CLOSE.
She did not like the Ross83 album at all. I recall her saying how disappointed she was when rca cut some tracks from the proposed original line up of songs. I know she loved MISSING YOU and RESCUE ME and FOREVER YOUNG from SA. She always liked CHAIN REACTION and MORE AND MORE from EA. Cannot recall off hand what she liked from RHRAB. I know more about what she liked from the return to Motown albums because i was with her during that period, but i think it was the rca period that you are referring to?
Hope that has helped, and thank you again for your kind interest. Take care.

lucky2012
08-08-2018, 11:02 AM
Hi lucky2012. Thank you for your kind words.
I am not the biggest fan of the rca years. In my opinion she released some real dross during this period, but i also think there were some gems along the way.
If i had to choose 3 songs from each of the rca albums i would go as follows
WDFFIL - Mirror, mirror, Sweet surrender, Two can make it.
SE - Love lies, Anywhere you run to, Who.
Ross83 - You do it, Let's go up, Love will make it right.
Swept away - Missing you, touch by touch, Swept away.
Eaten Alive - Crimes of passion, I love being in love with you, Love on the line.
RHRAB - It's hard for me to say, cross my heart, summertime.


As regards Diana, i know she would choose the title song from WDFFIL and sweet nothins'. She loved those songs. She liked I AM ME from silk electric which i hated with a passion, and she liked SO CLOSE.
She did not like the Ross83 album at all. I recall her saying how disappointed she was when rca cut some tracks from the proposed original line up of songs. I know she loved MISSING YOU and RESCUE ME and FOREVER YOUNG from SA. She always liked CHAIN REACTION and MORE AND MORE from EA. Cannot recall off hand what she liked from RHRAB. I know more about what she liked from the return to Motown albums because i was with her during that period, but i think it was the rca period that you are referring to?
Hope that has helped, and thank you again for your kind interest. Take care.
Hi Bluebrock, thanks for replying! I really was referring to her return-to-Motown years. I'm sorry if it wasn't clear.
I too am not a fan of most of her RCA years but it was interesting to know which songs you prefer and which you think Diana herself loved. I agree more with your preferences. I wouldn't be able to choose 3 songs from each album because there were some albums I preferred and some I rarely return to. My favorite RCA tracks: Missing You, It's Hard For Me To Say, Summertime, Selfish One, Cross My Heart, Chain Reaction, Let's Go Up, You Do It,Touch By Touch, Swept Away, Mirror Mirror, Why Do Fools Fall In Love.
Diana's favorites are very interesting. I like Ross[['83) but never listen to Silk Electric or most of Eaten Alive. RHRAB is my favorite RCA album. Anyway, just knowing about what she loved is enlightening and endears her to me even more :)
Please, if you have time, I am most curious about which songs you would include on a hypothetical The Return To Motown Years and which you think Diana would choose.
Thanks again, Bluebrock.

sup_fan
08-08-2018, 11:11 AM
Hi lucky2012. Thank you for your kind words.
I am not the biggest fan of the rca years. In my opinion she released some real dross during this period, but i also think there were some gems along the way.
If i had to choose 3 songs from each of the rca albums i would go as follows
WDFFIL - Mirror, mirror, Sweet surrender, Two can make it.
SE - Love lies, Anywhere you run to, Who.
Ross83 - You do it, Let's go up, Love will make it right.
Swept away - Missing you, touch by touch, Swept away.
Eaten Alive - Crimes of passion, I love being in love with you, Love on the line.
RHRAB - It's hard for me to say, cross my heart, summertime.


As regards Diana, i know she would choose the title song from WDFFIL and sweet nothins'. She loved those songs. She liked I AM ME from silk electric which i hated with a passion, and she liked SO CLOSE.
She did not like the Ross83 album at all. I recall her saying how disappointed she was when rca cut some tracks from the proposed original line up of songs. I know she loved MISSING YOU and RESCUE ME and FOREVER YOUNG from SA. She always liked CHAIN REACTION and MORE AND MORE from EA. Cannot recall off hand what she liked from RHRAB. I know more about what she liked from the return to Motown albums because i was with her during that period, but i think it was the rca period that you are referring to?
Hope that has helped, and thank you again for your kind interest. Take care.

i'll echo that i love your insights and willingness to share history and info. great to have you here on the boards!!

The Ross 83 situation is so curious. you say that RCA changed things but wasn't the whole point of Diana changing labels was that SHE would have control? if she delivered a lineup of tunes for a specific album and RCA didn't want a specific track, didn't she have veto power over RCA?

i've read that as the RCA years progressed, the relationship between Ross and the execs soured. was it perhaps starting around Ross 83?

Also Sweet nothings might have been a strong single from WDFFIL. but i guess that 3 big hits probably would have been asking too much from the set. after the title track and Mirror, they did do Work that body but i always figured that was more for fun than a serious release. and then it was probably time anyway to move onto the next project

rovereab
08-08-2018, 12:35 PM
From what I recall there were very few unreleased songs on the RCA reissues, only dance remixes etc. So I wonder if there are any "proper" unreleased songs in the vaults. That would be of interest to me.

lucky2012
08-08-2018, 01:04 PM
I would love to hear the original proposed Ross[['83)​ album.

sup_fan
08-08-2018, 02:29 PM
From what I recall there were very few unreleased songs on the RCA reissues, only dance remixes etc. So I wonder if there are any "proper" unreleased songs in the vaults. That would be of interest to me.

there have been some past discussions on this and i'm trying to remember specifics. i know there was a HUGE thread [[i started it hehehe) along the lines of What Diana projects/albums had the wrong lead singles and releases. something like that. but it went on, productively, for over 20 pages on here. somehow it avoided all of the typical BS that arises

in it, i believe Bluebrock mentioned not specific songs but some general insights into the RCA albums. i think the discussion was there were 3 -4 tracks prepared for Ross 83. maybe they were finished or just partial. and i think there were some for Eaten Alive too

and i believe she worked with Harold Allen on an album? was it sort of an "american songbook" effort too? not sure

Albator
08-09-2018, 02:16 AM
About "Ross", there is no evidence that RCA was making only bad decisions.
Silk's sales were disappointing and it wasn't just the fans who had to doubt Diana's talent as a producer.
The three rejected songs are probably not produced by Katz, and if she came to them with 3 more "girls", RCA might have feared that Diana's "amateur" achievements would ruin the unity of the LP.
Also we know that she wanted the Central Park show to be realized as a LP. Of course they vetoed the idea.

vgalindo
08-09-2018, 09:24 AM
About "Ross", there is no evidence that RCA was making only bad decisions.
Silk's sales were disappointing and it wasn't just the fans who had to doubt Diana's talent as a producer.
The three rejected songs are probably not produced by Katz, and if she came to them with 3 more "girls", RCA might have feared that Diana's "amateur" achievements would ruin the unity of the LP.
Also we know that she wanted the Central Park show to be realized as a LP. Of course they vetoed the idea.
How many copies did "Silk Electric" sell? I know it was instantly certified gold. Why were they disappointed with the sales of a gold record? Now I understand if they were really disappointed in the sales of the "Ross" LP the following year.

PeaceNHarmony
08-09-2018, 09:45 AM
How many copies did "Silk Electric" sell? I know it was instantly certified gold. Why were they disappointed with the sales of a gold record? Now I understand if they were really disappointed in the sales of the "Ross" LP the following year.
Not sure of # units sold, but usually record companies [[rather ... disingenously, I think) anticipate sales of a new title to meet or exceed those of the prior title. Also, the NJ-related single may have led RCA to expect an even greater return. As is usual for massive stars like Diana, the sky is always the limit and anything less is a disappointment. And as usual, I'd be willing to bet that SE's sales and chart positions handily outpaced those of any of Diana's contemporaries that same year!

reese
08-09-2018, 10:26 AM
Not sure of # units sold, but usually record companies [[rather ... disingenously, I think) anticipate sales of a new title to meet or exceed those of the prior title. Also, the NJ-related single may have led RCA to expect an even greater return. As is usual for massive stars like Diana, the sky is always the limit and anything less is a disappointment. And as usual, I'd be willing to bet that SE's sales and chart positions handily outpaced those of any of Diana's contemporaries that same year!

WHY DO FOOLS FALL IN LOVE was certified platinum, so RCA and Diana were probably hoping that SILK ELECTRIC would do as well. But I think they messed that up by releasing SO CLOSE as its second single. And then, Diana basically moved on to ROSS because she probably wanted new product to coincide with the Central Park concert.

Albator
08-09-2018, 01:46 PM
How many copies did "Silk Electric" sell? I know it was instantly certified gold. Why were they disappointed with the sales of a gold record? Now I understand if they were really disappointed in the sales of the "Ross" LP the following year.Why "Silk" a disappointment? because they had signed "hot Diana", a legend with a string of top 10 hits and a worldwide success LP , "diana". The platinum "diana", lead to a platinum "WDFFIL", that lead to a gold "Silk". Twice less.
Not to talk about bad reviews and probably poor world to mouth for those first RCA LPs.
RCA staff was probably anxious about what to expect from Miss Ross.
Plus we were at the beginning of a new era in term of sales. For a superstar like Diana, Gold wasn't that spectacular. Platinum was the minimum and multiplatinum the aim.

thommg
08-09-2018, 01:54 PM
I place Silk Electric as my least liked album from the RCA years. I found it badly mixed, there is waaay too much echo on a lot of the vocals. Also, I didn't care for most of the song selections. Muscles is nice as a camp song but it doesn't go anywhere. For my money, the best song on the LP was Love Lies, which I think should have been a single.

sup_fan
08-09-2018, 04:15 PM
and what exactly does "Silk Electric" mean? lolol is it just taking to somewhat interesting and "hot" words and slapping them together?

sup_fan
08-09-2018, 04:19 PM
I don't deem it the worst of the RCA years. it's just very uneven. and i completely agree about the annoying echo and reverb [[although Eaten Alive lp is worse)

Muscles is fun - imagine if MJ had done an entire album with Diana, perhaps including a duet?

So close - fine enough for an lp track but never should have been a single. she had already do a "retro" song with WDFFIL and she should have moved on. plus the echo here is totally annoying

the song Who had some potential IMO and so does Anywhere you run to

I Am Me is fun for an album track. and i don't hate Fool For Your Love.

I do think Turn Me Over is entertaining. while it's hardly a song it makes for an interesting play on the 2-sided lp concept

vgalindo
08-09-2018, 04:26 PM
Well I really liked Silk Electric. Muscles was hot at the time and Love Lies and Still in love were two of my favorites. Fool for your love was fun to hear.

vgalindo
08-09-2018, 04:34 PM
Why "Silk" a disappointment? because they had signed "hot Diana", a legend with a string of top 10 hits and a worldwide success LP , "diana". The platinum "diana", lead to a platinum "WDFFIL", that lead to a gold "Silk". Twice less.
Not to talk about bad reviews and probably poor world to mouth for those first RCA LPs.
RCA staff was probably anxious about what to expect from Miss Ross.
Plus we were at the beginning of a new era in term of sales. For a superstar like Diana, Gold wasn't that spectacular. Platinum was the minimum and multiplatinum the aim.
Ok that makes since. Thank you

Ollie9
08-09-2018, 04:41 PM
With the release of the godawful "So Close" as second single, it seemed to me that everything came to a crashing halt. I firmly believe "Love Lies" could have been at least a top twenty hit had it been released as that all important second single. It was very radio friendly for what was being played at the time.
"So Close" imo is a twee, cloying boring song not worthy of much attention. 36 years later and i still hate it.
I never understand why ross 83 gets such a bad press as overall, with the exception of "Girls" [[diana strikes again) i think it a far better album then SE. Not great, just better.

reese
08-09-2018, 04:59 PM
I don't deem it the worst of the RCA years. it's just very uneven. and i completely agree about the annoying echo and reverb [[although Eaten Alive lp is worse)

Muscles is fun - imagine if MJ had done an entire album with Diana, perhaps including a duet?

So close - fine enough for an lp track but never should have been a single. she had already do a "retro" song with WDFFIL and she should have moved on. plus the echo here is totally annoying

the song Who had some potential IMO and so does Anywhere you run to

I Am Me is fun for an album track. and i don't hate Fool For Your Love.

I do think Turn Me Over is entertaining. while it's hardly a song it makes for an interesting play on the 2-sided lp concept

I thought that TURN ME OVER was kind of clever. I gather she earns some royalties on it since it has been published. And whenever I make a Diana cassette [[yes, cassette!), I put it at the end of Side A.

sup_fan
08-09-2018, 05:10 PM
I never understand why ross 83 gets such a bad press as overall, with the exception of "Girls" [[diana strikes again) i think it a far better album then SE. Not great, just better.


hahaha - i like Girls. it's silly and campy but fun. while i don't think it was single-ready, imagine what a video would have been like

And that's another topic that's been oddly missing from here - the videos Diana made for her singles. frankly - odd!!!!

Ollie9
08-09-2018, 05:44 PM
hahaha - i like Girls. it's silly and campy but fun. while i don't think it was single-ready, imagine what a video would have been like

And that's another topic that's been oddly missing from here - the videos Diana made for her singles. frankly - odd!!!!

A video would most probably have been fun. The problem is the song just does not fit with the rest of the songs on the album. It's like it was an afterthought tagged on to the end.
I think Diana made some truely great videos in the 80's. "Chain Reaction", "Missing You", "Muscles", "Eaten Alive" etc. The list is extensive.. Never liked the promo for "Experience" where to me she looks cross rather then in love. Perhaps the vid for EA ate up the best part of the budget.

Bluebrock
08-10-2018, 02:46 AM
Hi Bluebrock, thanks for replying! I really was referring to her return-to-Motown years. I'm sorry if it wasn't clear.
I too am not a fan of most of her RCA years but it was interesting to know which songs you prefer and which you think Diana herself loved. I agree more with your preferences. I wouldn't be able to choose 3 songs from each album because there were some albums I preferred and some I rarely return to. My favorite RCA tracks: Missing You, It's Hard For Me To Say, Summertime, Selfish One, Cross My Heart, Chain Reaction, Let's Go Up, You Do It,Touch By Touch, Swept Away, Mirror Mirror, Why Do Fools Fall In Love.
Diana's favorites are very interesting. I like Ross[['83) but never listen to Silk Electric or most of Eaten Alive. RHRAB is my favorite RCA album. Anyway, just knowing about what she loved is enlightening and endears her to me even more :)
Please, if you have time, I am most curious about which songs you would include on a hypothetical The Return To Motown Years and which you think Diana would choose.
Thanks again, Bluebrock.
I shall have to have a real think about that one! Aside from "workin overtime" i thought those albums were amongst the best she recorded. Lots of strong songs on those albums. I will get back to you!

Bluebrock
08-10-2018, 02:52 AM
I don't deem it the worst of the RCA years. it's just very uneven. and i completely agree about the annoying echo and reverb [[although Eaten Alive lp is worse)

Muscles is fun - imagine if MJ had done an entire album with Diana, perhaps including a duet?

So close - fine enough for an lp track but never should have been a single. she had already do a "retro" song with WDFFIL and she should have moved on. plus the echo here is totally annoying

the song Who had some potential IMO and so does Anywhere you run to

I Am Me is fun for an album track. and i don't hate Fool For Your Love.

I do think Turn Me Over is entertaining. while it's hardly a song it makes for an interesting play on the 2-sided lp concept
MJ wanted to do a full album with Diana, but it was all about having the time to do it. It has been previously been discussed in an earlier thread.

florence
08-10-2018, 06:02 AM
MJ wanted to do a full album with Diana, but it was all about having the time to do it. It has been previously been discussed in an earlier thread.

Not sure how that would have worked with me.

I can live with Muscles but it is nowhere near one of my favourites by Diana, however Eaten Alive is a complete mess and one of her two worst singles ever.

It's poor showing in the US chart more or less killed the album off.

TheMotownManiac
08-10-2018, 07:12 AM
Hi lucky2012. Thank you for your kind words.
I am not the biggest fan of the rca years. In my opinion she released some real dross during this period, but i also think there were some gems along the way.
If i had to choose 3 songs from each of the rca albums i would go as follows
WDFFIL - Mirror, mirror, Sweet surrender, Two can make it.
SE - Love lies, Anywhere you run to, Who.
Ross83 - You do it, Let's go up, Love will make it right.
Swept away - Missing you, touch by touch, Swept away.
Eaten Alive - Crimes of passion, I love being in love with you, Love on the line.
RHRAB - It's hard for me to say, cross my heart, summertime.


As regards Diana, i know she would choose the title song from WDFFIL and sweet nothins'. She loved those songs. She liked I AM ME from silk electric which i hated with a passion, and she liked SO CLOSE.
She did not like the Ross83 album at all. I recall her saying how disappointed she was when rca cut some tracks from the proposed original line up of songs. I know she loved MISSING YOU and RESCUE ME and FOREVER YOUNG from SA. She always liked CHAIN REACTION and MORE AND MORE from EA. Cannot recall off hand what she liked from RHRAB. I know more about what she liked from the return to Motown albums because i was with her during that period, but i think it was the rca period that you are referring to?
Hope that has helped, and thank you again for your kind interest. Take care.

I’m amazed that out of 18 songs you chose, i’d Only swap 4. I think the RCA years would have read differently with alternate single choices on every album - although not much could have saved RHRB.