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marybrewster
08-04-2018, 12:12 AM
As an add-on to another thread I just started, the Primettes performed locally at record/sock hops in the Detroit area from 1959 [[?) - 1962/3. Prior obviously to "Meet the Supremes".

Does anyone know what songs they performed? I would assume they must have had some sort of repertoire?

reese
08-04-2018, 09:03 AM
Amongst the songs Mary listed in her book as being performed during this period were NIGHT TIME IS THE RIGHT TIME, THE TWIST, THERE'S SOMETHING ON YOUR MIND, and THERE GOES MY BABY. On the 1966 SWINGING TIME episode devoted to the Supremes, they mention these songs as well, Flo giving a nice "Hah!" after mentioning NIGHT TIME...

In the book THE WOMEN OF MOTOWN, Lynda Lawrence mentioned seeing them sing BUTTERED POPCORN during this period.

lucky2012
08-04-2018, 10:14 AM
Amongst the songs Mary listed in her book as being performed during this period were NIGHT TIME IS THE RIGHT TIME, THE TWIST, THERE'S SOMETHING ON YOUR MIND, and THERE GOES MY BABY. On the 1966 SWINGING TIME episode devoted to the Supremes, they mention these songs as well, Flo giving a nice "Hah!" after mentioning NIGHT TIME...

In the book THE WOMEN OF MOTOWN, Lynda Lawrence mentioned seeing them sing BUTTERED POPCORN during this period.
Does anyone know who sang leads on these songs or were they all group vocals? I've asked this before, but, being the founder of the group, and having such a strong voice, why didn't Flo get a lead on a Primettes recording? Also, wasn't Buttered Popcorn [[on which Flo rocks!) a Supremes recording?

midnightman
08-04-2018, 11:19 AM
There was no lead vocalist in the Primettes. Mary had her leads, Flo had hers and Diana had hers. I don't know if Betty and Barbara had any. But Flo, Mary & Diana sure did.

reese
08-04-2018, 04:50 PM
Does anyone know who sang leads on these songs or were they all group vocals? I've asked this before, but, being the founder of the group, and having such a strong voice, why didn't Flo get a lead on a Primettes recording? Also, wasn't Buttered Popcorn [[on which Flo rocks!) a Supremes recording?

I think Flo sang lead on THE TWIST. Flo and Diana shared the lead on NIGHT TIME IS THE RIGHT TIME. Mary sang lead on THERE'S SOMETHING ON YOUR MIND. Diana sang lead on THERE GOES MY BABY. Mary wrote that Barbara sang lead on [[HE'S) SEVENTEEN in concert, which seems strange since Diana sang lead on the recording. But whatever.

Yes, BUTTERED POPCORN was the group's second Motown release.

As to why Flo didn't get a lead during the Lupine days, I've wondered about that myself. Since she was thought by some to have the strongest voice, I would have thought she would have gotten at least one side of the single. Maybe their producer, Richard Morris, felt that the voices of Diana and Mary fit TEARS OF SORROW and PRETTY BABY the best.

marybrewster
08-04-2018, 04:50 PM
Amongst the songs Mary listed in her book as being performed during this period were NIGHT TIME IS THE RIGHT TIME, THE TWIST, THERE'S SOMETHING ON YOUR MIND, and THERE GOES MY BABY. On the 1966 SWINGING TIME episode devoted to the Supremes, they mention these songs as well, Flo giving a nice "Hah!" after mentioning NIGHT TIME...

In the book THE WOMEN OF MOTOWN, Lynda Lawrence mentioned seeing them sing BUTTERED POPCORN during this period.

Where would Lynda have seen the Primettes / Supremes perform in late 50's/early 60's? Wouldn't she have still been in Philly? And seeing as she's 5 years younger than Diana/Mary, would a 10/11 year old been able to attend these sockhops?

reese
08-04-2018, 04:53 PM
Where would Lynda have seen the Primettes / Supremes perform in late 50's/early 60's? Wouldn't she have still been in Philly? And seeing as she's 5 years younger than Diana/Mary, would a 10/11 year old been able to attend these sockhops?

The show she mentioned seeing took place in Philly. As to how she got in the venue, I have no idea. But it seemed to have made an impression as she even remembered they were wearing red dresses.

midnightman
08-04-2018, 06:36 PM
I think Flo sang lead on THE TWIST. Flo and Diana shared the lead on NIGHT TIME IS THE RIGHT TIME. Mary sang lead on THERE'S SOMETHING ON YOUR MIND. Diana sang lead on THERE GOES MY BABY. Mary wrote that Barbara sang lead on [[HE'S) SEVENTEEN in concert, which seems strange since Diana sang lead on the recording. But whatever.

Yes, BUTTERED POPCORN was the group's second Motown release.

As to why Flo didn't get a lead during the Lupine days, I've wondered about that myself. Since she was thought by some to have the strongest voice, I would have thought she would have gotten at least one side of the single. Maybe their producer, Richard Morris, felt that the voices of Diana and Mary fit TEARS OF SORROW and PRETTY BABY the best.

They only did two recordings on Lupine so they probably didn't get a chance. But it is telling Richard produced a vocal on Diana and Mary and Flo was in the background. None of the original Supremes ever said they were the "original" lead singer. It was always a group effort.

marybrewster
08-04-2018, 07:14 PM
The show she mentioned seeing took place in Philly. As to how she got in the venue, I have no idea. But it seemed to have made an impression as she even remembered they were wearing red dresses.

Gotcha! Makes sense.

PeaceNHarmony
08-04-2018, 07:44 PM
I think Flo sang lead on THE TWIST. Flo and Diana shared the lead on NIGHT TIME IS THE RIGHT TIME. Mary sang lead on THERE'S SOMETHING ON YOUR MIND. Diana sang lead on THERE GOES MY BABY. Mary wrote that Barbara sang lead on [[HE'S) SEVENTEEN in concert, which seems strange since Diana sang lead on the recording. But whatever.

Yes, BUTTERED POPCORN was the group's second Motown release.

As to why Flo didn't get a lead during the Lupine days, I've wondered about that myself. Since she was thought by some to have the strongest voice, I would have thought she would have gotten at least one side of the single. Maybe their producer, Richard Morris, felt that the voices of Diana and Mary fit TEARS OF SORROW and PRETTY BABY the best.
Or just perhaps Florence really was not thought to have, and really did not have, the "strongest" voice even back then and it's just a myth that certain types have kept alive?

marv2
08-04-2018, 09:00 PM
I know they sang "Canadian Sunset" as Primettes.

marv2
08-04-2018, 09:01 PM
Or just perhaps Florence really was not thought to have, and really did not have, the "strongest" voice even back then and it's just a myth that certain types have kept alive?

Nah, everyone in and outside of Detroit will tell you that Florence had the best and the strongest voice of the original Supremes.

marv2
08-04-2018, 09:03 PM
The show she mentioned seeing took place in Philly. As to how she got in the venue, I have no idea. But it seemed to have made an impression as she even remembered they were wearing red dresses.

That was at the Uptown Theater in Philly on Broad Street. I use to drive past it about once a week. Lynda later moved to Detroit as an adult to sing in the clubs there in the sixties.

marv2
08-04-2018, 09:06 PM
The show she mentioned seeing took place in Philly. As to how she got in the venue, I have no idea. But it seemed to have made an impression as she even remembered they were wearing red dresses.

I don't think Lynda Laurence aka Linda Tucker saw the Primettes perform in Philadelphia because they didn't! The furthest trip/performance for the Primettes was Pittsburgh [[about 300 miles West of Philly). I believe she was remembering seeing the Supremes sing "Come See About Me" at the Uptown Theater in Philly around the mid 60s. I do remember hearing her talk about that specific song as the one they performed.

midnightman
08-04-2018, 11:20 PM
Or just perhaps Florence really was not thought to have, and really did not have, the "strongest" voice even back then and it's just a myth that certain types have kept alive?

Florence was a great vocalist but she and the other Primettes were what you call an all-around group. You had four very talented girls who were their own individual in a time when most groups were pretty much almost monolithic. Like they could all sing and hold their own but they didn't "stand out".

Something about the Primettes must've stood out. The first night they performed together to Ray Charles, you had Florence, Mary and Diana leading with Diana doing the Margie Hendricks "BABAAAAY!" part, and them going back saying "hey that was cool!"

Florence had an R&B voice, Mary had a ballads voice, Diana had a rock and roll voice. But when they came together, it was a unique sound that had to be refined. It was eventually found but it took them five years to get it together. Remember, these girls were KIDS when they started!

Also like I said, they agreed to have no lead singers since the Primes had Paul Williams and Eddie Kendricks switching leads; the Primettes just figured "give leads to Flo, give leads to Diana and give leads to Mary". Not sure if I buy that story that Barbara sang "He's Seventeen" by the way [[sounds like the story of Sarah Dash singing "Danny Boy" with the Bluebelles when Patti sung lead on the recording).

marv2
08-04-2018, 11:38 PM
Florence was a great vocalist but she and the other Primettes were what you call an all-around group. You had four very talented girls who were their own individual in a time when most groups were pretty much almost monolithic. Like they could all sing and hold their own but they didn't "stand out".

Something about the Primettes must've stood out. The first night they performed together to Ray Charles, you had Florence, Mary and Diana leading with Diana doing the Margie Hendricks "BABAAAAY!" part, and them going back saying "hey that was cool!"

Florence had an R&B voice, Mary had a ballads voice, Diana had a rock and roll voice. But when they came together, it was a unique sound that had to be refined. It was eventually found but it took them five years to get it together. Remember, these girls were KIDS when they started!

Also like I said, they agreed to have no lead singers since the Primes had Paul Williams and Eddie Kendricks switching leads; the Primettes just figured "give leads to Flo, give leads to Diana and give leads to Mary". Not sure if I buy that story that Barbara sang "He's Seventeen" by the way [[sounds like the story of Sarah Dash singing "Danny Boy" with the Bluebelles when Patti sung lead on the recording).

Barbara Martin did the spoken parts to "He's Seventeen" on the recording and sang the song live. I saw and heard her sing parts of it with Mary Wilson at Chene Park in June 1994.

midnightman
08-04-2018, 11:43 PM
As an add-on to another thread I just started, the Primettes performed locally at record/sock hops in the Detroit area from 1959 [[?) - 1962/3. Prior obviously to "Meet the Supremes".

Does anyone know what songs they performed? I would assume they must have had some sort of repertoire?

I don't know about 1959... was there any date when they first started performing because it seemed they didn't start to perform regularly until 1960?

See, this is why I wish the Supremes had more vital info like the Beatles. With the Beatles, you knew what they did before they became the Beatles. You even have dates on performances they did as THE QUARRYMEN [[John, Paul and George), then as the Silver Beetles before shortening it to the Beatles and including Ringo [[in '62). Heck, the Beach Boys are more detailed about their early career before becoming The Beach Boys.

You don't get that with the Supremes. You get some info and then some that is skipping... so other than the songs mentioned, it's a guess on what they performed. And judging on how much they did in the early Motortown Revues [[1962-64), I'm guessing two to three songs max as "the others".

I do know that during one Revue stop in '63 they did Anyone Who Had a Heart so I'm guessing anything that was popular until they finally became THE group.

marybrewster
08-05-2018, 01:26 AM
Here's the part that I guess I don't understand:

The Primettes were formed in 1959 as a "sister" group to the Primes. I would assume then that they must have shared the same bill at these parties, sock hops, whatever.

But in 1960, the Primes became the Elgins......so did they no longer perform with one another?

And in 1961 when the Primettes became the Supremes, did they stop performing period? Until the Motortown Revues in 1962 and 1963?

It would seem then that the Primettes/Supremes then really only performed a few shows between 59 and 61?

lucky2012
08-05-2018, 10:46 AM
See, this is why I wish the Supremes had more vital info like the Beatles.

Wow. Actually, this forum has educated me a lot more about the Primettes than I knew before.


They only did two recordings on Lupine so they probably didn't get a chance. But it is telling Richard produced a vocal on Diana and Mary and Flo was in the background. None of the original Supremes ever said they were the "original" lead singer. It was always a group effort.


they agreed to have no lead singers since the Primes had Paul Williams and Eddie Kendricks switching leads; the Primettes just figured "give leads to Flo, give leads to Diana and give leads to Mary


The first night they performed together to Ray Charles, you had Florence, Mary and Diana leading with Diana doing the Margie Hendricks "BABAAAAY!" part, and them going back saying "hey that was cool!"

I kind of figured they were a "group effort". If they continued on with Richard Morris I'm sure Florence would have recorded a lead. They all were capable leads, as evidenced by their first[[?) Motown recording as the Supremes, "After All" [[I love listening to that every now and then).

marv2
08-05-2018, 11:00 AM
Here's the part that I guess I don't understand:

The Primettes were formed in 1959 as a "sister" group to the Primes. I would assume then that they must have shared the same bill at these parties, sock hops, whatever.

But in 1960, the Primes became the Elgins......so did they no longer perform with one another?

And in 1961 when the Primettes became the Supremes, did they stop performing period? Until the Motortown Revues in 1962 and 1963?

It would seem then that the Primettes/Supremes then really only performed a few shows between 59 and 61?

There were a lot of stops and starts there. First of all, the Primettes never performed onstage at the same time as the Primes [[unlike that scene in Suzanne Depasse' movie on the Temptations). They sometimes ended up performing at the same Union Hall parties and caberets, BYOB's as the Primes. Most of the time they were performing at separate functions. There was a time in 1960 when the Primettes broke up after Florence's rape. Mary and Diane spent sometime in Chicago over the summer and then back to school in Detroit. Mary Wilson did some moonlighting with Louvain Demps and others on record sessions for people like John Lee Hooker etc in Chicago. They signed contracts with Motown as "The Supremes" in January 1961. They continued to performed but usually with other artists and usually at the bottom of the bill. They performed in Toledo, Battle Creek, Kalamazoo, Windsor, Cleveland, Flint etc,etc. They performed a fair amount [[while still being high school students) on the weekends between 1959 -61 it's just that they were small, local functions that could hardly be considered "concerts" or "tours". All cities had their local music acts that would be hired as entertainment for cabarets and other social functions.

midnightman
08-05-2018, 12:48 PM
Here's the part that I guess I don't understand:

The Primettes were formed in 1959 as a "sister" group to the Primes. I would assume then that they must have shared the same bill at these parties, sock hops, whatever.

But in 1960, the Primes became the Elgins......so did they no longer perform with one another?

And in 1961 when the Primettes became the Supremes, did they stop performing period? Until the Motortown Revues in 1962 and 1963?

It would seem then that the Primettes/Supremes then really only performed a few shows between 59 and 61?

I'm guessing it's true that they performed in '59 at the places you mentioned but there doesn't seem to be much that the original Supremes shared about those years other than they were hungry to become successful. All that was known is the Primes and Primettes had the same manager [[Milton Jenkins).

But it was also around that same time [[1959-60) that the Primes had actually split up. Kell Osbourne moved to California. Both Eddie and Paul returned to Birmingham. So that left the Primettes as their own group rather than a "sister" group. But I doubt the Primes and Primettes really performed together. Many accounts doubt it despite the inaccurate scene in "The Temptations" film that showed the two acts [[and the Primettes looking like they would look like when they became the it group in pop!? I still shake my head at that scene lol).

Milton Jenkins left and Richard Morris became their new manager and got them on Lupine Records. Motown was barely existing at that point but it was exciting enough for the Supremes since the Miracles were in that label so I'm guessing they auditioned for Berry in '60 [[this was after they had won that talent show in Windsor, Ontario) and was turned down because they were still way too young. So that's when they got the deal with Lupine [[the Ohio Untouchables - who later became known as the Ohio Players - was another act that got on Lupine; as far as I know, the Ohio Untouchables and the Primettes were the only acts that got signed on there).

By late 1960, the Primettes pretty much only sang inside Hitsville since Berry finally allowed them in after they kept pestering other Motown producers and writers to add handclaps and background vocals to songs for Marv Johnson, Mary Wells and Mable John.

And yeah I don't recall the Supremes ever performing [[least outside of Detroit) in 1961. The only Motown acts that were really put out on the road were Mary Wells and the Miracles. The Marvelettes had JUST signed as well as did Marvin Gaye [[who went out on the road as the Miracles' road drummer) and Stevie Wonder. I also seem to recall Wilson Pickett saying the group sung background vocals for him when he first left the Falcons [[but that might have been 1963 because Wilson was still in the Falcons in '62; Wilson was still living in Detroit at the time and it was still a while before he became the soul superstar he became in Atlantic and recorded at Muscle Shoals).

Also, because the group couldn't get a charted single on the Hot 100/R&B charts for their first few release, I doubt Berry wanted to put a no-hit group on the road. He had to wait until the quartet became a trio [[Barbara left in May of 1962 shortly after Your Heart Belongs to Me came out) and after Let Me Go the Right Way became a modest R&B hit to finally put them on the road in the first Motortown Revues of 1962 [[a revue where the Miracles, Mary, Marvelettes and Marvin were the headliners while the Supremes were listed as "others"; the Temptations joined as Mary's backing vocalists if I recall correctly and had just scored their first R&B hit with "Dream Come True" so of course Motown didn't put them on in the bill at first either while Martha and the Vandellas were Marvin's backing singers until they began to have their series of hits in 1963).

So yeah I don't think the Supremes really started performing regularly UNTIL the Revues.

midnightman
08-05-2018, 12:54 PM
Wow. Actually, this forum has educated me a lot more about the Primettes than I knew before.




I kind of figured they were a "group effort". If they continued on with Richard Morris I'm sure Florence would have recorded a lead. They all were capable leads, as evidenced by their first[[?) Motown recording as the Supremes, "After All" [[I love listening to that every now and then).

That performance of "After All" indicated how the Supremes saw themselves as a group: they each had a lead part! Not even the Marvelettes did that! Least on that level. The sad thing about it is Motown never really did more of that. But on that song, you saw the group's strengths as singers and performers. But yeah there was no "lead singer" when they formed.

marybrewster
08-05-2018, 05:13 PM
So that's when they got the deal with Lupine [[the Ohio Untouchables - who later became known as the Ohio Players - was another act that got on Lupine; as far as I know, the Ohio Untouchables and the Primettes were the only acts that got signed on there).

I think Joe Stubb's was also signed at Lupine for a time.

midnightman
08-05-2018, 05:36 PM
I think Joe Stubb's was also signed at Lupine for a time.

He sure was! Forgot him.

reese
08-05-2018, 09:49 PM
I think Joe Stubb's was also signed at Lupine for a time.

Bettye Lavette as well.

midnightman
08-05-2018, 11:34 PM
So that's four artists now.

Did Joe and Bettye release anything from Lupine?

Don't think that label lasted long.

marybrewster
08-06-2018, 12:45 AM
http://www.45cat.com/label/lu-pine-productions

marybrewster
08-06-2018, 12:47 AM
http://www.soulfulkindamusic.net/lupine.htm

RanRan79
08-06-2018, 09:37 AM
So yeah I don't think the Supremes really started performing regularly UNTIL the Revues.

As far as I'm concerned, Mary Wilson is the authority on the early days and so I take my information from her book.

After their first performance, "Milton tried to book us on any show willing to take us. We began to be popular around the Detroit area playing sock hops. These were dances organized by local disc jockeys, where they...presented young local acts, like us, who didn't yet have an extensive repertoire of original material. We did many of these shows...Our act usually consisted of our renditions of the most popular tunes." Apparently these would've been the same places that Otis Williams' group[[s) were performing. Mary makes mention of the first time meeting Otis, Richard Street and Melvin Franklin while sharing a bill at a place called the Gold Coast Ballroom.

After Milton's "disappearance" in 1960, Mary claims that the Primettes still had plenty of work lined up based on the reps they had built up with the locals. They were also probably the only girl group with their own guitarist, which meant that in and of itself would have been some kind of novelty that kept the girls working, setting them apart from the competition who had sing along with someone else's record. Then they won the talent contest and of course were infamously rejected by Motown. It was at this point that Richard Morris and Homer Davis decided to take over managing duties for the Primettes. Mary says that under Richard, the Primettes' work increased and they were performing at the Graystone Ballroom and other nightspots around the city, sharing the stage with the Falcons, the Isley Brothers, the Delphis, and even Johnny Mathis, of course the Primettes were usually the opening act. According to Mary, the Primettes performed outside of Detroit, in Lansing, Michigan, as this was the scene of the time that Richard had his clothes torn off by guys trying to get on stage with the girls.

At some point Betty leaves, Flo is raped, and there's a couple of months of inactivity, which I think is when Diana and Mary considered becoming a duo and were doing some things at Carmen Murphy's place. Flo comes back and Richard gets them the sessions at Lupine. Barbara joins the group and they begin recording their own songs at Hitsville and of course they soon sign as the Supremes. Apparently they were still doing the local sock hops for awhile, of course now they were performing to their own records. They were traveling outside of Detroit, their first show outside of Detroit as Supremes being in Cincinnati, where they shared the bill with Gladys and the Pips and were supposedly horrible. Barbara sang a lead that night.

So I figure it's probably accurate to say the Primettes/Supremes were always performing, except during Flo's time away. Martha Reeves mentions in her book also of the group making all the same rounds that she did.

midnightman
08-06-2018, 12:17 PM
Thanks, Ran. Definitely more in depth stuff. I figured Mary would have something to say about the early days.

IIRC, Marv Tarplin was their guitarist but the Miracles got him in 1959 so they must've hired another guitarist?

Were they booed at the gig they shared with GK&TP's?

sup_fan
08-06-2018, 12:21 PM
also they wouldn't have done a lengthy show, like once they hit it big as the Sups. rather they would have gone on stage and done a couple songs. then another act would have done some, etc.

Sometimes they might have simply sung along with their records [[once they were the Sups). otherwise they probably just sang various popular songs of the day. doo wop, ballads, pop songs, etc since these were mostly sock hops. Perhaps they might have tried more complex songs as they worked on their harmonies.

midnightman
08-06-2018, 12:59 PM
Mary mentioned they were always the opening act so yeah it was probably two, three songs tops and probably five by the time they got their own songs on Detroit radio.

robb_k
08-06-2018, 01:05 PM
Milton Jenkins left and Richard Morris became their new manager and got them on Lupine Records. Motown was barely existing at that point but it was exciting enough for the Supremes since the Miracles were in that label so I'm guessing they auditioned for Berry in '60 [[this was after they had won that talent show in Windsor, Ontario) and was turned down because they were still way too young. So that's when they got the deal with Lupine [[the Ohio Untouchables - who later became known as the Ohio Players - was another act that got on Lupine; as far as I know, the Ohio Untouchables and the Primettes were the only acts that got signed on there).

By late 1960, the Primettes pretty much only sang inside Hitsville since Berry finally allowed them in after they kept pestering other Motown producers and writers to add handclaps and background vocals to songs for Marv Johnson, Mary Wells and Mable John.

And yeah I don't recall the Supremes ever performing [[least outside of Detroit) in 1961. I also seem to recall Wilson Pickett saying the group sung background vocals for him when he first left the Falcons [[but that might have been 1963 because Wilson was still in the Falcons in '62;

Also, because the group couldn't get a charted single on the Hot 100/R&B charts for their first few releases, I doubt Berry wanted to put a no-hit group on the road. He had to wait until the quartet became a trio [[Barbara left in May of 1962 shortly after Your Heart Belongs to Me came out) and after Let Me Go the Right Way became a modest R&B hit to finally put them on the road in the first Motortown Revues of 1962.

So yeah I don't think the Supremes really started performing regularly UNTIL the Revues.
14518
I, myself never heard that The Primettes ever sang gigs outside Detroit [[not even Toledo). And I believe they didn't. Yes, they got their deal with Robert West's LuPine Records in 1960, and they recorded "Tears of Sorrow" and "Pretty Baby" then. Richie Morris ran the session. I'm pretty sure that West didn't release their 2 cuts until 1962 [[LuPine 120), after they'd had some minor success with Motown, and then he re-released their record in 1964, after they started having great chart success.

Yes, Wilson Pickett was correct about The Supremes[[ex-Primettes) backing him up on his first 2 solo cuts in early spring, 1962, after he left The Falcons. He had signed with Wilbur Golden's Correc-Tone Records, and Robert Bateman ran his session, with Sonny Sanders arranging. He sang "Let Me Be Your Boy" and "I'm Down To My Last Heartbreak". The Funk Brothers played on it, and the strings were played by the same Detroit Symphony Orchestra players who played for Motown. The Supremes/Primettes also sang backgrounds from 1960-62 for others of Robert West's artists, including Al Garner[[Gardner), and other's of Wilbur Golden's Correc-Tone artists, including James Velvet [[James Ellis?).

Robert Ward and The Ohio Untouchables were signed to LuPine for awhile. They also recorded in Detroit for Hazel and Robert Coleman's and Don Davis' Thelma Records. I don't understand your comment about them and The Primettes being the only artists signed to LuPine "then". Did you mean they were also signed from the Windsor talent contest? Or the only ones signed in early 1960? Surely, you couldn't mean that they were the only LuPine artists in 1960. West had many, many artists and groups: The Falcons as a group, and several individual Falcons also signed as single artists [[Mack Rice, Joe Stubbs, Eddie Floyd), Al Garner, The Fabulous Playboys, Bobby Williams, Eddie Kirkland, The Corvells, The Fourmost, The Conquerors, The Rivals, The Minor Chords, Bennie McCain, Gene Martin, and Sax Kari all may have been signed by 1960. Tina Marvel and Betty Lavette were signed later [[1962).

midnightman
08-06-2018, 01:19 PM
WAIT!

The songs didn't get put out until 1962!?!?

Whoa...

So definitely not a Stonewall/Big Boy thing then! Why wait a couple of years???

Thanks for the info about Lupine, Robb [[and Mary Brewster :) ).

Thanks about the stuff about the Wicked Pickett working with the Supremes. Seems most of their early work after getting with Motown was mostly background singing much like Martha and the Vandellas [[whereas the Marvelettes by comparison seemed to get off on the gate immediately after "Postman").

sansradio
08-06-2018, 02:33 PM
14518
I, myself never heard that The Primettes ever sang gigs outside Detroit [[not even Toledo). And I believe they didn't. Yes, they got their deal with Robert West's LuPine Records in 1960, and they recorded "Tears of Sorrow" and "Pretty Baby" then. Richie Morris ran the session. I'm pretty sure that West didn't release their 2 cuts until 1962 [[LuPine 120), after they'd had some minor success with Motown, and then he re-released their record in 1964, after they started having great chart success.

Yes, Wilson Pickett was correct about The Supremes[[ex-Primettes) backing him up on his first 2 solo cuts in early spring, 1962, after he left The Falcons. He had signed with Wilbur Golden's Correc-Tone Records, and Robert Bateman ran his session, with Sonny Sanders arranging. He sang "Let Me Be Your Boy" and "I'm Down To My Last Heartbreak". The Funk Brothers played on it, and the strings were played by the same Detroit Symphony Orchestra players who played for Motown. The Supremes/Primettes also sang backgrounds from 1960-62 for others of Robert West's artists, including Al Garner[[Gardner), and other's of Wilbur Golden's Correc-Tone artists, including James Velvet [[James Ellis?).

Robert Ward and The Ohio Untouchables were signed to LuPine for awhile. They also recorded in Detroit for Hazel and Robert Coleman's and Don Davis' Thelma Records. I don't understand your comment about them and The Primettes being the only artists signed to LuPine "then". Did you mean they were also signed from the Windsor talent contest? Or the only ones signed in early 1960? Surely, you couldn't mean that they were the only LuPine artists in 1960. West had many, many artists and groups: The Falcons as a group, and several individual Falcons also signed as single artists [[Mack Rice, Joe Stubbs, Eddie Floyd), Al Garner, The Fabulous Playboys, Bobby Williams, Eddie Kirkland, The Corvells, The Fourmost, The Conquerors, The Rivals, The Minor Chords, Bennie McCain, Gene Martin, and Sax Kari all may have been signed by 1960. Tina Marvel and Betty Lavette were signed later [[1962).

I echo the thanks about the Pickett/Primettes info; I didn't know about the girls' presence on "...Heartbreak." I'll bump one of the Supremes/Primettes background vocals threads and attach this tune.

RanRan79
08-06-2018, 02:40 PM
Thanks, Ran. Definitely more in depth stuff. I figured Mary would have something to say about the early days.

IIRC, Marv Tarplin was their guitarist but the Miracles got him in 1959 so they must've hired another guitarist?

Were they booed at the gig they shared with GK&TP's?

According to Mary, Marv was their guitarist right through the big talent show win in 1960. Remember the story goes that Smokey "stole" Marv from the Primettes when they auditioned for him after the talent show in order to get him to get them into Hitsville. Marv Tarplin is another one who hasn't seemed to be interviewed much about the early days, which is surprising considering that he was actually the 5th Primette from the earliest Milton Jenkins days. It's possible Marv was with the group for a whole year.

As far as their show with Gladys and the guys, I don't recall Mary saying they were booed, just that they were horrible. Of course the artists are often harder on themselves than anyone, so the use of the word "horrible" or any of it's adjectives might be relative.

RanRan79
08-06-2018, 02:41 PM
I, myself never heard that The Primettes ever sang gigs outside Detroit [[not even Toledo). And I believe they didn't.

Mary wrote that the Primettes performed in Lansing.

reese
08-06-2018, 02:51 PM
As far as their show with Gladys and the guys, I don't recall Mary saying they were booed, just that they were horrible. Of course the artists are often harder on themselves than anyone, so the use of the word "horrible" or any of it's adjectives might be relative.

Mary wrote "We were terrible!"

No longer having Marv, they had trouble working with a strange band. From the downbeat of [[HE'S) SEVENTEEN, Barbara was singing in one key and the band was playing in another. She concluded that The Pips were very encouraging after it was all over.

After this gig, they went on to Pittsburgh, where Barbara wrecked Berry's car.

midnightman
08-06-2018, 03:28 PM
LORD!

What was going on with Barbara?!?!

Must've had bad nerves...

Oh I see why Mary said it was terrible [[the musicians didn't communicate with them, it seems). Glad to hear Gladys encouraging them. They were all the same age but Gladys had already "made it" in a sense.

robb_k
08-06-2018, 04:21 PM
So that's four artists now.

Did Joe and Bettye release anything from Lupine?

Don't think that label lasted long.
14519
LuPine lasted from 1960 well into the 1980s, when Robert West was living in Las Vegas. He released several previously unreleased cuts, like "Anna" by Wilson Pickett, Blues songs by Eddie Kirkland and Benny McCain, cuts by The Ohio Untouchables, and instrumentals by Sax Kari, Northern Soul cuts by Bobby Williams.


Joe Stubbs [[Lupine 120) was "Keep On Loving Me" - a great uptempo sounds just like The Falcons.

Bettye Lavette [[Lupine 124) sang a Bluesy tune, "Witchcraft In The Air". Both are excellent.

midnightman
08-06-2018, 04:59 PM
14519
LuPine lasted from 1960 well into the 1980s, when Robert West was living in Las Vegas. He released several previously unreleased cuts, like "Anna" by Wilson Pickett, Blues songs by Eddie Kirkland and Benny McCain, cuts by The Ohio Untouchables, and instrumentals by Sax Kari, Northern Soul cuts by Bobby Williams.


Joe Stubbs [[Lupine 120) was "Keep On Loving Me" - a great uptempo sounds just like The Falcons.

Bettye Lavette [[Lupine 124) sang a Bluesy tune, "Witchcraft In The Air". Both are excellent.

Thanks for this great info, Robb.

reese
08-06-2018, 05:03 PM
Bettye Lavette [[Lupine 124) sang a Bluesy tune, "Witchcraft In The Air". Both are excellent.

The flip, YOU KILLED THE LOVE, is a great tune as well.

robb_k
08-07-2018, 03:52 AM
I echo the thanks about the Pickett/Primettes info; I didn't know about the girls' presence on "...Heartbreak." I'll bump one of the Supremes/Primettes background vocals threads and attach this tune.
14520
Sorry, I wrote the wrong title down. Pickett's other song in the session that became Correc-Tone 501 was "My Heart Belongs To You", NOT "I'm Down To My Last Heartbreak". The Supremes did NOT provide back=up singing for the latter. I got the titles confused. Listen both to "Let Me Be Your Boy" and "My Heart Belongs To You". You can clearly hear at least Diana's and Flo's voices on them [[probably Mary's, too).

sansradio
08-07-2018, 04:54 AM
14520
Sorry, I wrote the wrong title down. Pickett's other song in the session that became Correc-Tone 501 was "My Heart Belongs To You", NOT "I'm Down To My Last Heartbreak". The Supremes did NOT provide back=up singing for the latter. I got the titles confused. Listen both to "Let Me Be Your Boy" and "My Heart Belongs To You". You can clearly hear at least Diana's and Flo's voices on them [[probably Mary's, too).

Thanks. I’ll correct it.