One Bad Apple: Motown Myth?

[marybrewster]

Over the years I've read different types sources and have seen interviews with Donny Osmond that "One Bad Apple" was first given to the Jackson 5, who turned it down in favor of "ABC".

Motown Myth?

1) The Jackson 5's first single, "I Want You Back" and following singles "ABC" and "The Love You Save" were all written by THE CORPORATION. Could a song outside of the Motown inner circle been submitted for consideration?

2) Being that the Jackson 5 had only one previous #1 and we're still making their way, would they have had the option to "turn down" a song a la the Marvelettes turned down "Where Did Our Love Go?"

3) ABC was recorded in 1969; released in February 1970. One Bad Apple was recorded in October 1970; released in November 1970. How can this timing be possible?

Thoughts?

[bradsupremes]

I always thought it was written for them, but Motown, not the group, rejected the song. Sort of hard to believe a group of kids would have that kind of power to reject songs especially since they hadn't been at the label for very long and it was still Berry's ballgame. Whatever was given to them, they had to record whether they liked the song or not. Also add in the fact "One Bad Apple" songwriter George Jackson wasn't signed to the label. This probably didn't help him or the song as Motown liked to use their own people.

[midnightman]

I'm calling it a myth because Motown hardly worked with outside producers and writers unless that song was sold off to Motown. I think that's how Ed Cobb ended up having Every Little Bit Hurts recorded in Motown because Brenda was signed and she recorded in L.A. And besides, Motown was putting their money on The Corporation writing J5 hits.

[milven]

Probably myth based on truth. Written with the expectation it would be recorded by the J5, rejected by Motown, and eventually recorded by Osmonds

[marv2]

From what I understand, the song "One Bad Apple" was offered to Motown for the Jackson Five. It was rejected because it was not trademarked by Jobete or any other Motown owned publishing trademark. According to Donny Osmond, the writer told him years later that he had written it with the Osmonds in mind but they were unavailable at the time to record it. They eventually got the song, recorded it and it became a big hit.

Berry Gordy knew that the big money was in the publishing rights to songs.

[RanRan79]

I never believe stories about Motown artists turning down songs. Motown artists complaining about having to record a song? You bet. Having the power to turn down a song? A rare occurrence, one that I'm sure would not have extended to a group of kids fresh on the scene. [[Nor do I believe that the Marvelettes turned anything down. They didn't have that kind of power.)

[marybrewster]

I never believe stories about Motown artists turning down songs. Motown artists complaining about having to record a song? You bet. Having the power to turn down a song? A rare occurrence, one that I'm sure would not have extended to a group of kids fresh on the scene. [[Nor do I believe that the Marvelettes turned anything down. They didn't have that kind of power.)

That's exactly how I feel. The same about Mary Wilson turning down "Holiday" and "giving" it to Madonna.

[Boogiedown]

I didn't realize ONE BAD APPLE was #1 for five weeks! Can that be right?
Odd too that George Jackson had that one super hit in him , & despite the effort, little else.
Maybe the arranging by Peter Carpenter played a major role. I'm guessing he modeled it after the J5's first hit.

[sup_fan]

I never believe stories about Motown artists turning down songs. Motown artists complaining about having to record a song? You bet. Having the power to turn down a song? A rare occurrence, one that I'm sure would not have extended to a group of kids fresh on the scene. [[Nor do I believe that the Marvelettes turned anything down. They didn't have that kind of power.)

yeah i think the WDOLG saga has grown dramatically over the years. makes an exciting story.

given some of the trash that WAS recorded lol, i can't imagine anyone was doing anything of turning down.

[marybrewster]

Found this interesting article; the last sentence made me laugh:

This was written by George Jackson, a staff songwriter at FAME Studios in Muscle Shoals, Alabama. The Osmonds were a young family group from Ogden, Utah, and made a name for themselves performing at Disneyland and on The Andy Williams Show. When they signed with MGM records in 1970, the label sent them to FAME in an effort to duplicate the success of The Jackson 5. George Jackson had written this song with The Jackson 5 in mind, and with production by FAME owner Rick Hall and vocals by 13-year-old Donny Osmond, this sounded very much like a Jackson 5 record, and was a huge success, spending five weeks at #1 in the US.

Rodney Hall, who took over operations at FAME from his dad, told us how Rick discovered The Osmonds: "My dad heard them in Vegas. Mike Curb flew him out there to see them and said, 'I'm not going to tell you who it is, because you won't go if I tell you who it is,' because they'd done The Andy Williams Show, but they hadn't had a hit or a big record. So he flew out there and he dug 'em and decided to cut them like the Jackson 5. He told George to write them a Jackson 5 song and that was it. I've heard the rumor that Berry Gordy sent my dad a Western-Union that said, 'Stop stealing my f--king music.'"

[Boogiedown]

Found this interesting article; the last sentence made me laugh:

This was written by George Jackson, a staff songwriter at FAME Studios in Muscle Shoals, Alabama. The Osmonds were a young family group from Ogden, Utah, and made a name for themselves performing at Disneyland and on The Andy Williams Show. When they signed with MGM records in 1970, the label sent them to FAME in an effort to duplicate the success of The Jackson 5. George Jackson had written this song with The Jackson 5 in mind, and with production by FAME owner Rick Hall and vocals by 13-year-old Donny Osmond, this sounded very much like a Jackson 5 record, and was a huge success, spending five weeks at #1 in the US.

Rodney Hall, who took over operations at FAME from his dad, told us how Rick discovered The Osmonds: "My dad heard them in Vegas. Mike Curb flew him out there to see them and said, 'I'm not going to tell you who it is, because you won't go if I tell you who it is,' because they'd done The Andy Williams Show, but they hadn't had a hit or a big record. So he flew out there and he dug 'em and decided to cut them like the Jackson 5. He told George to write them a Jackson 5 song and that was it. I've heard the rumor that Berry Gordy sent my dad a Western-Union that said, 'Stop stealing my f--king music.'"
That's a great recounting. And if accurate, [[seems so), confirms that ONE BAD APPLE never found its way to Motown or the J5, but rather came about specifically for The Osmonds.
Good stuff!

[marv2]

That's exactly how I feel. The same about Mary Wilson turning down "Holiday" and "giving" it to Madonna.

That actually happened, in 1982. Had nothing whatsoever to do with Motown. There have been other songs that Mary Wilson has turned down.

[marv2]

I didn't realize ONE BAD APPLE was #1 for five weeks! Can that be right?
Odd too that George Jackson had that one super hit in him , & despite the effort, little else.
Maybe the arranging by Peter Carpenter played a major role. I'm guessing he modeled it after the J5's first hit.

It was a total rip off of the Jackson 5 sound. On first listen, many thought it was the Jackson 5.

[marv2]

yeah i think the WDOLG saga has grown dramatically over the years. makes an exciting story.

given some of the trash that WAS recorded lol, i can't imagine anyone was doing anything of turning down.

Brian Holland said that it was written for the Supremes. He wanted Mary Wilson to do the lead and Eddie Holland and Lamont Dozier wanted Diane to do it. They compromised in a way which is why it almost sounds like a duet.

[sup_fan]

Brian Holland said that it was written for the Supremes. He wanted Mary Wilson to do the lead and Eddie Holland and Lamont Dozier wanted Diane to do it. They compromised in a way which is why it almost sounds like a duet.

heard that too. And Gladys has said it isn't so much that they rejected WDOLG but instead chose Too Many Fish, based on the instrumental track. to me, it sounds like they just didn't have time to do WDOLG and chose a different song. not so much that WDOLG was crap. during rehearsals and all, it could just be that when they were initially played songs they picked one over the other. and then WDOLG was played for the Sups.

[lucky2012]

I didn't realize ONE BAD APPLE was #1 for five weeks! Can that be right?
Odd too that George Jackson had that one super hit in him , & despite the effort, little else.
Maybe the arranging by Peter Carpenter played a major role. I'm guessing he modeled it after the J5's first hit.
I may be the only one here, but I cringe every time I hear One Bad Apple [[which is thankfully never). It was such a blatant ripoff of the Jackson 5 & The Corporation. And in my mind, not even a very good one. It was shameless and I was disgusted! Maybe it was because I was young and a Motown follower. Maybe it was because I was familiar with the Osmonds [[my parents watched Andy Williams). I credited them for their musical abilities, and Donny Osmond was a talented young singer, but he was no Michael Jackson. I remember even George Harrison remarking that there was no comparison when asked to compare. I didn't think Donny would creditably sing Don't Know Why I Love You or Who's Lovin' You, let alone I Want You Back. Maybe now, in my old age, I can listen more fairly.

[marv2]

heard that too. And Gladys has said it isn't so much that they rejected WDOLG but instead chose Too Many Fish, based on the instrumental track. to me, it sounds like they just didn't have time to do WDOLG and chose a different song. not so much that WDOLG was crap. during rehearsals and all, it could just be that when they were initially played songs they picked one over the other. and then WDOLG was played for the Sups.

You have to admit. The rhythm track to "Too Many Fish In the Sea" was smokin!!!!

[marv2]

I may be the only one here, but I cringe every time I hear One Bad Apple [[which is thankfully never). It was such a blatant ripoff of the Jackson 5 & The Corporation. And in my mind, not even a very good one. It was shameless and I was disgusted! Maybe it was because I was young and a Motown follower. Maybe it was because I was familiar with the Osmonds [[my parents watched Andy Williams). I credited them for their musical abilities, and Donny Osmond was a talented young singer, but he was no Michael Jackson. I remember even George Harrison remarking that there was no comparison when asked to compare. I didn't think Donny would creditably sing Don't Know Why I Love You or Who's Lovin' You, let alone I Want You Back. Maybe now, in my old age, I can listen more fairly.

Well, I was just 10, 11 years old when I heard it on the radio for the first time after it's release and I liked it. It was Bubblegum Pop music like the Jackson 5, the Partridge Family and some others that were out at that time in the early 70s.

Do you remember the Osmond Brothers cartoon?

[midnightman]

There's a reason why people call I Want You Back and ABC and 'em classics and why One Bad Apple is not looked on as one...

I mean honestly, did ANY of the Osmonds' songs survive its original popularity???

[milven]

Brian Holland said that it was written for the Supremes. He wanted Mary Wilson to do the lead and Eddie Holland and Lamont Dozier wanted Diane to do it. They compromised in a way which is why it almost sounds like a duet

I remher reading--possibbly even here - that HDH had worked out an intricate arrangement for Mary and Flo, but it was not working out or was being rejected by the girls. Finally, they gave up and just came up with the simplified "baby baby" arrangement of the song. Is there any truth in my memory of this? Needless to say, the final product was terrific and number one materiel. None of this is mentioned in

WIKOPEDIA
When the Supremes were eventually given the song, the group members weren't pleased with the record, with member Florence Ballard later stating that they had wanted a stronger single similar to the Marvelettes' "Please Mr. Postman".] Although the group felt the song didn't have the hook to make it successful, they decided that they really didn't have a choice and prepared to record the song.[

Initially, the producers argued over who should sing the song, as the song had been cut in the same key as Mary Wilson's voice but since Berry Gordy had assigned the lead singer role to Diana Ross, the producers eventually gave the song to Ross, who sang it in her usual high register in the recording studio on April 8. As a result, Ross was told to sing the song in a lower register and begrudgingly complied with Holland/Dozier/Holland's "to the letter" formula. Mary Wilson and Florence Ballard's vocal contribution was significant in bringing a fresh yet hypnotic sexiness to the overall sound of the song while remaining true to the backup arrangements that Lamont Dozier had set down.

Upon hearing the song's playback, an excited Ross rushed to Gordy's office and told him to come to the studio to listen to the song. Upon hearing playback, a satisfied Gordy nodded saying to the producers and the group that the song had potential to be a top ten hit.

[reese]

I remher reading--possibbly even here - that HDH had worked out an intricate arrangement for Mary and Flo, but it was not working out or was being rejected by the girls. Finally, they gave up and just came up with the simplified "baby baby" arrangement of the song. Is there any truth in my memory of this? Needless to say, the final product was terrific and number one materiel. None of this is mentioned in

WIKOPEDIA
When the Supremes were eventually given the song, the group members weren't pleased with the record, with member Florence Ballard later stating that they had wanted a stronger single similar to the Marvelettes' "Please Mr. Postman".] Although the group felt the song didn't have the hook to make it successful, they decided that they really didn't have a choice and prepared to record the song.[

Initially, the producers argued over who should sing the song, as the song had been cut in the same key as Mary Wilson's voice but since Berry Gordy had assigned the lead singer role to Diana Ross, the producers eventually gave the song to Ross, who sang it in her usual high register in the recording studio on April 8. As a result, Ross was told to sing the song in a lower register and begrudgingly complied with Holland/Dozier/Holland's "to the letter" formula. Mary Wilson and Florence Ballard's vocal contribution was significant in bringing a fresh yet hypnotic sexiness to the overall sound of the song while remaining true to the backup arrangements that Lamont Dozier had set down.

Upon hearing the song's playback, an excited Ross rushed to Gordy's office and told him to come to the studio to listen to the song. Upon hearing playback, a satisfied Gordy nodded saying to the producers and the group that the song had potential to be a top ten hit.


I recall reading or hearing Lamont Dozier say such a thing re the background vocals.

It is interesting to hear the various points of view. Recently, Eddie Holland has said that the song was always meant for the Supremes. But Lamont Dozier was quoted as saying that he cut the track low because it was meant for Gladys and the Marvelettes. He even went on to say that he was disappointed that the Marvelettes didn't like it because now he was stuck with the costs of recording the track.

I also remember reading that when Berry heard the song, he told HDH that it might go Top 40 or Top 20, but not number one.

In any event, it certainly is a great record, regardless of how it came together.

[lucky2012]

Well, I was just 10, 11 years old when I heard it on the radio for the first time after it's release and I liked it. It was Bubblegum Pop music like the Jackson 5, the Partridge Family and some others that were out at that time in the early 70s.

Do you remember the Osmond Brothers cartoon?
Well, I guess I'm a little older than you, Marv. :) I was already in high school, but I remember my little sister watching the Jackson 5 and Osmonds cartoons.
The Jackson 5 were classified as bubblegum soul, but their songs and tracks had the Motown pedigree and musicianship. ABC was cutesy, but I Want You Back, I'll Be There, Never Can Say Goodbye and The Love You Save [[love the lyrical cleverness) were pretty awesome records. Weren't some probably written for older, adult Motown recording artists? [[Martha Reeves, The Supremes recorded some).
This thread has confirmed to me that One Bad Apple was conceived specifically for the Osmonds to duplicate the J5. That it was recorded in Muscle Shoals' Fame Studio is very interesting, though. I'll have to re-listen. I still hate Puppy love and Crazy Horses, though.
Saying all that, I Think I Love You by the Partridge Family is a favorite from that time. :)

[arr&bee]

I too have heard the legend of[one bad apple]but i always just thought that it was competition amoung teen groups,now the song that i actually thought was the j5 was the cool[mamas little baby-brothers love]that kid had mj down cold.

[marv2]

I too have heard the legend of[one bad apple]but i always just thought that it was competition amoung teen groups,now the song that i actually thought was the j5 was the cool[mamas little baby-brothers love]that kid had mj down cold.

JAI remember Jimmy Briscoe and the Little Beavers?

[jboy88]

It was a total rip off of the Jackson 5 sound. On first listen, many thought it was the Jackson 5.

Even the Jacksons’ own relatives thought it was them!

[midnightman]

Well, I guess I'm a little older than you, Marv. :) I was already in high school, but I remember my little sister watching the Jackson 5 and Osmonds cartoons.
The Jackson 5 were classified as bubblegum soul, but their songs and tracks had the Motown pedigree and musicianship. ABC was cutesy, but I Want You Back, I'll Be There, Never Can Say Goodbye and The Love You Save [[love the lyrical cleverness) were pretty awesome records. Weren't some probably written for older, adult Motown recording artists? [[Martha Reeves, The Supremes recorded some).
This thread has confirmed to me that One Bad Apple was conceived specifically for the Osmonds to duplicate the J5. That it was recorded in Muscle Shoals' Fame Studio is very interesting, though. I'll have to re-listen. I still hate Puppy love and Crazy Horses, though.
Saying all that, I Think I Love You by the Partridge Family is a favorite from that time. :)

I Think I Love You is a true pop classic. :)

[marv2]

Well, I guess I'm a little older than you, Marv. :) I was already in high school, but I remember my little sister watching the Jackson 5 and Osmonds cartoons.
The Jackson 5 were classified as bubblegum soul, but their songs and tracks had the Motown pedigree and musicianship. ABC was cutesy, but I Want You Back, I'll Be There, Never Can Say Goodbye and The Love You Save [[love the lyrical cleverness) were pretty awesome records. Weren't some probably written for older, adult Motown recording artists? [[Martha Reeves, The Supremes recorded some).
This thread has confirmed to me that One Bad Apple was conceived specifically for the Osmonds to duplicate the J5. That it was recorded in Muscle Shoals' Fame Studio is very interesting, though. I'll have to re-listen. I still hate Puppy love and Crazy Horses, though.
Saying all that, I Think I Love You by the Partridge Family is a favorite from that time. :)

Well you would have been one of the big kids to us at that time. LOL! I have cousins that were in high school in the early 70s too. "I Want You Back" will always be the ONE song that I would have to own by the Jackson 5. I remember on my birthday in 2009, they made the DJ play it for me and my girl to dance to on Long Island. 40 years after it's release and it still sounded great!

[marv2]

Well, I guess I'm a little older than you, Marv. :) I was already in high school, but I remember my little sister watching the Jackson 5 and Osmonds cartoons.
The Jackson 5 were classified as bubblegum soul, but their songs and tracks had the Motown pedigree and musicianship. ABC was cutesy, but I Want You Back, I'll Be There, Never Can Say Goodbye and The Love You Save [[love the lyrical cleverness) were pretty awesome records. Weren't some probably written for older, adult Motown recording artists? [[Martha Reeves, The Supremes recorded some).
This thread has confirmed to me that One Bad Apple was conceived specifically for the Osmonds to duplicate the J5. That it was recorded in Muscle Shoals' Fame Studio is very interesting, though. I'll have to re-listen. I still hate Puppy love and Crazy Horses, though.
Saying all that, I Think I Love You by the Partridge Family is a favorite from that time. :)

I liked the Partridge Family's "I Think I Love You" too, but my favorite from them was "Doesn't Somebody Want to Be Wanted Like Me". That was some serious music for us 5th and 6th Graders at that time. LOL!!!!

[masterblaster]

The Osmonds had been performing long before the Jacksons and were already an established act when they recorded "One Bad Apple". They used that song to jump on the J5 bandwagon in an attempt to cash in on the teeny bopper market that the Jacksons had started. It was a musical change of direction for The Osmonds.

[144man]

I may be the only one here, but I cringe every time I hear One Bad Apple [[which is thankfully never). It was such a blatant ripoff of the Jackson 5 & The Corporation. And in my mind, not even a very good one. It was shameless and I was disgusted! Maybe it was because I was young and a Motown follower. Maybe it was because I was familiar with the Osmonds [[my parents watched Andy Williams). I credited them for their musical abilities, and Donny Osmond was a talented young singer, but he was no Michael Jackson. I remember even George Harrison remarking that there was no comparison when asked to compare. I didn't think Donny would creditably sing Don't Know Why I Love You or Who's Lovin' You, let alone I Want You Back. Maybe now, in my old age, I can listen more fairly.

Rip-off or not, I still would have liked to have heard the Jackson 5 sing "One Bad Apple".

[marv2]

The Osmonds had been performing long before the Jacksons and were already an established act when they recorded "One Bad Apple". They used that song to jump on the J5 bandwagon in an attempt to cash in on the teeny bopper market that the Jacksons had started. It was a musical change of direction for The Osmonds.

I wonder why the Osmonds waited so long? I mean, there were groups like the Monkees that hit the teeny bopper market several years early with hit after hit.

[144man]

heard that too. And Gladys has said it isn't so much that they rejected WDOLG but instead chose Too Many Fish, based on the instrumental track. to me, it sounds like they just didn't have time to do WDOLG and chose a different song. not so much that WDOLG was crap. during rehearsals and all, it could just be that when they were initially played songs they picked one over the other. and then WDOLG was played for the Sups.

Strangely enough, it was the Marvelettes' "You're My Remedy" that was released at the same time as WDOLG [[June 64). "Too Many Fish In the Sea" wasn't released until October.

[marv2]

Rip-off or not, I still would have liked to have heard the Jackson 5 sing "One Bad Apple".

It would have sounded pretty much the same until it came to the lead vocals. Michael Jackson had a stronger voice than Donny Osmond.

[144man]

It would have sounded pretty much the same until it came to the lead vocals. Michael Jackson had a stronger voice than Donny Osmond.

That would have been enough to make me buy it. I didn't buy the Osmonds' version.

[marv2]

That would have been enough to make me buy it. I didn't buy the Osmonds' version.

Same here. I really don't think the Osmonds version was a bad record, no pun intended. LOL!

[lucky2012]

I Think I Love You is a true pop classic. :)
Yes, that record still sounds great today!
Wah think I love you! Wah think I love you! Wah think I love you!

[lucky2012]

Well you would have been one of the big kids to us at that time. LOL! I have cousins that were in high school in the early 70s too. "I Want You Back" will always be the ONE song that I would have to own by the Jackson 5. I remember on my birthday in 2009, they made the DJ play it for me and my girl to dance to on Long Island. 40 years after it's release and it still sounded great!
Exactly. I've heard I Want You Back played so many times, in so many contexts, to this very day. How you like them apples, One Bad Apple?!
Actually, more than a few people, including my young millennial nephew and niece, have commented to me, with astonishment and admiration, how Motown's music/songs/hits never seem to age or seem dated. This is in comparison to most of the pop and rock music of the 60's and 70's [[and yes, even the 80's).

[lucky2012]

I liked the Partridge Family's "I Think I Love You" too, but my favorite from them was "Doesn't Somebody Want to Be Wanted Like Me". That was some serious music for us 5th and 6th Graders at that time. LOL!!!!
Yes, I liked Doesn't Somebody Want to be Wanted. Also I'll Meet You Half Way.

[lucky2012]

Same here. I really don't think the Osmonds version was a bad record, no pun intended. LOL!
I would have bought a J5 version. Didn't Berry Gordy ask his Quality Control group members if they'd rather buy a prospective new release or a hot dog?

[marv2]

Exactly. I've heard I Want You Back played so many times, in so many contexts, to this very day. How you like them apples, One Bad Apple?!
Actually, more than a few people, including my young millennial nephew and niece, have commented to me, with astonishment and admiration, how Motown's music/songs/hits never seem to age or seem dated. This is in comparison to most of the pop and rock music of the 60's and 70's [[and yes, even the 80's).

My greatest and fondest memories of "I Want You Back" was being on the school bus in the 4th Grade and all of us "singing" it at the tops of our lungs going and coming back from school for days it seems. It was the hottest new record at the time. It spoke to us from one kid [[Michael Jackson) to another. hehehehehehehehe!

[marv2]

Exactly. I've heard I Want You Back played so many times, in so many contexts, to this very day. How you like them apples, One Bad Apple?!
Actually, more than a few people, including my young millennial nephew and niece, have commented to me, with astonishment and admiration, how Motown's music/songs/hits never seem to age or seem dated. This is in comparison to most of the pop and rock music of the 60's and 70's [[and yes, even the 80's).

I can only remember a handful of songs from the early 2000s for some reason and a bit more from the 90s.

[marv2]

I would have bought a J5 version. Didn't Berry Gordy ask his Quality Control group members if they'd rather buy a prospective new release or a hot dog?

It was a sandwich, but you know how stories get changed down through the years. I can remember standing in what use to be the space where they held their quality control meeting and Esther [[Mrs. Edwards), Berry Gordy's sister telling me that story again. She said a record or a sandwich. LOL!

[greg jones]

Found this interesting article; the last sentence made me laugh:

This was written by George Jackson, a staff songwriter at FAME Studios in Muscle Shoals, Alabama. The Osmonds were a young family group from Ogden, Utah, and made a name for themselves performing at Disneyland and on The Andy Williams Show. When they signed with MGM records in 1970, the label sent them to FAME in an effort to duplicate the success of The Jackson 5. George Jackson had written this song with The Jackson 5 in mind, and with production by FAME owner Rick Hall and vocals by 13-year-old Donny Osmond, this sounded very much like a Jackson 5 record, and was a huge success, spending five weeks at #1 in the US.

Rodney Hall, who took over operations at FAME from his dad, told us how Rick discovered The Osmonds: "My dad heard them in Vegas. Mike Curb flew him out there to see them and said, 'I'm not going to tell you who it is, because you won't go if I tell you who it is,' because they'd done The Andy Williams Show, but they hadn't had a hit or a big record. So he flew out there and he dug 'em and decided to cut them like the Jackson 5. He told George to write them a Jackson 5 song and that was it. I've heard the rumor that Berry Gordy sent my dad a Western-Union that said, 'Stop stealing my f--king music.'"

Interesting topic!

Having done some work for the Osmond Family in the '80's and '90's, heard this story many times. While there is a grain of truth, it has been exaggerated over the years. The story has been that it was 1st offered to the Jackson 5 as the follow up to I Want You Back, in place of ABC.

One of the things that I do know, having done some research is that there are 2 versions of the song. One was copyrighted just before the Osmonds went to Muscle Shoals to record and the second was done right as the song came out almost 2 months later.

While George Jackson definetely wrote the song to capture on the Jackson 5 style, I've often wondered if he wrote the song after hearing ABC rather than before. If he was trying to capture the J5 style, it could not have been written before the holiday season in 1969. ABC came out February 1970. The Love You Save came out in May and I'll Be There in August. So by late August the J5 had changed styles.

Mike Curb had not convinced Rick Hall to record the Osmonds until late August 1970 after seeing them perform at Caesar's Palace, so George Jackson would not have been told the Osmonds were coming to record until probably sometime in September. So that means the song would have to been composed early 1970 up until September 1970. There is only about a 6 week window from Aug to early Oct, if it was written specially for the Osmonds. I doubly that it was written prior to August with the Osmonds in mind. Mary Brewster you are spot on your dates.

Usually songs are not copyrighted until there is a commitment of the song being recorded, so copyright dates are not indication of when songs were written. It is possible that the song was offered to Motown at some point, if it was written much earlier in 1970. Motown was offered songs by other publishing, but rarely chose from outside their own stable of writers to keep the publishing royalties in house. Plus, in the case of most artists back then had little option of what they recorded. If it was offered to Motown, it was Motown and Berry Gordy who turned it down. It was rare when the artist had choice and it was in their contract like Stevie Wonder's renewal.

I do know that when the Osmonds went to Muscle Shoals to record that George Osmond [[their father) was along to give consent to record songs in regards to moral content and supposedly wasn't sure if the song was right for his children to record. This might explain why there were 2 different versions of the song copyrighted. There could have been changes to the lyrics for the Osmonds. I also know that Mike Curb is the one that supposedly suggested the Osmonds copy the J5 style. That could have been dictated to Rick Hall. In their act was a Motown Medley entitled "Motown Special" which had special lyrics to wrap around the medley of My World Is Empty Without You and I Can't Get Next To You and other Motown songs. This wrap around had been especially composed for the Osmonds by Earl Brown while the Osmonds recorded for Andy Williams show and Barnaby Records and not been released. This also shows Curb push to the Motown Sound, including J5 styling.

Unfortunately, with George Jackson and Rick Hall deceased, we will probably never know the answer of when exactly the song was written. That leaves only Berry Gordy to answer whether One Bad Apple was actually offered to Motown in 1970. So chances are slim that it was offered to the J5 and they heard it before the Osmonds recorded it and released it during the holidays of 1970.

It is more probable that the Jacksons heard an off hand comment someplace about Gordy's comments of stealing the sound and that it might have been offered to Motown.

The part about the telegram from Gordy to Curb is apparently true as Curb hints at this in his autobiography as what to what led Gordy to invite Curb to finally meet in person at the Gordy Mansion in Bel Air. When Curb left MGM/PolyGram in late '73, it prompted Gordy and Curb to sign a deal for a Gordy/Curb Country label at Motown. sometime in late 1974. That label went through several imprint name changes from Melodyland to Hitsville to MC [[Motown Country or Mike Curb). When the label folded in 1977, the artists were then transferred to Warner/Curb. Even during Curb's tenure at MGM, he was hiring or borrowing Motown staff and producers such as Crewe, Gaudio, Johnny Bristol, H.B. Barnum, Larry Muhobarac, etc.

I also do know that when the Osmonds contract with PolyGram was up for renewal in late '75 and early '76 that Motown was involved in negotiating for a contract. This was in addition to PolyGram wanting to renewal as well as other interests in signing the family from Capitol, A&M and Warner Bros. Ultimately PolyGram won out for a 5 year contract much to Curb's hopes to get them back on his label. In 1975, Berry Gordy did give Alan Osmond an option to write and produce for another family act that Motown signed called The Allens. Only one of the Osmond produced songs came out on Motown, entitled, "High Tide." This was probably to entice the Osmonds to come to Motown.

[midnightman]

I wonder if the story of One Bad Apple initially being a J5 rejection [[rather than a simple J5 reject song lmao) started with the OSMONDS themselves.

Like they had to find an excuse for why Curb gave them records that sounded too much like their archrivals [[though both families became friendly with each other so calling them "archrivals" is false)...

[heikki]

Hi!

From my interview with George Jackson in 1994 in Soul Express:

"I did a demo on that in Memphis and sent it to Muscle Shoals. When I wrote I sort of had in mind the Jackson Five. Rick Hall told me about a group called the Osmonds that was coming over to record at Muscle Shoals. When the Osmonds heard the song, they went immediately to record it."

Best regards
Heikki

[arr&bee]

jai remember jimmy briscoe and the little beavers?oh yeah,i haven't heard them mentioned in a while cool little group.

[marv2]

Hi!

From my interview with George Jackson in 1994 in Soul Express:

"I did a demo on that in Memphis and sent it to Muscle Shoals. When I wrote I sort of had in mind the Jackson Five. Rick Hall told me about a group called the Osmonds that was coming over to record at Muscle Shoals. When the Osmonds heard the song, they went immediately to record it."

Best regards
Heikki

Ok now there you have it! The song was written with the Jackson 5 in mind. It was written for them. This is what I had always understood. Thank you Heikki!

[marv2]

oh yeah,i haven't heard them mentioned in a while cool little group.

They have been performing as adults in recent years. They had the talent, they just didn't have the song or writers that could have really broken them big!

[greg jones]

Hi!

From my interview with George Jackson in 1994 in Soul Express:

"I did a demo on that in Memphis and sent it to Muscle Shoals. When I wrote I sort of had in mind the Jackson Five. Rick Hall told me about a group called the Osmonds that was coming over to record at Muscle Shoals. When the Osmonds heard the song, they went immediately to record it."

Best regards
Heikki

Thanx Heikki. This explains more. So it is not older than 1970 if he had the J5 in my mind. Yes, it is definetely in the J5 style. Only Mr. Gordy can tell us, if he heard the song before it came out on the Osmonds then.

[greg jones]

I wonder if the story of One Bad Apple initially being a J5 rejection [[rather than a simple J5 reject song lmao) started with the OSMONDS themselves.

Like they had to find an excuse for why Curb gave them records that sounded too much like their archrivals [[though both families became friendly with each other so calling them "archrivals" is false)...

It is possible that the exaggeration came about from when the Osmonds and The Jacksons met and talked about their songs. As I said before only Mr. Gordy can tell us if the song was submitted to Motown. Motown rare chose outside songs for their artists as Mr. Gordy wanted publishing royalties. It's just like when artists are songwriters, if they did not write the "A" side, they request that the "B" side is theirs to get publishing royalties. That trick came about in the '60's.

[midnightman]

It is possible that the exaggeration came about from when the Osmonds and The Jacksons met and talked about their songs. As I said before only Mr. Gordy can tell us if the song was submitted to Motown. Motown rare chose outside songs for their artists as Mr. Gordy wanted publishing royalties. It's just like when artists are songwriters, if they did not write the "A" side, they request that the "B" side is theirs to get publishing royalties. That trick came about in the '60's.

That could be the case...lol

[johnjeb]

I Think I Love You is a true pop classic. :)

When I read this over the weekend I wasn't sure about it being a Pop Classic. I was in college when it was released and considered it bubble-gum Pop - a catchy tune.

Tonight a friend sent me a youtube video of Andy Williams. While listening I saw on the sidebar that Andy recorded "I Think I Love You". If that wasn't strange enough I then saw that Perry Como also recorded it. I wonder if either of them did "One Bad Apple". I don't dare look.

[soulster]

I may be the only one here, but I cringe every time I hear One Bad Apple [[which is thankfully never). It was such a blatant ripoff of the Jackson 5 & The Corporation. And in my mind, not even a very good one. It was shameless and I was disgusted! Maybe it was because I was young and a Motown follower. Maybe it was because I was familiar with the Osmonds [[my parents watched Andy Williams). I credited them for their musical abilities, and Donny Osmond was a talented young singer, but he was no Michael Jackson. I remember even George Harrison remarking that there was no comparison when asked to compare. I didn't think Donny would creditably sing Don't Know Why I Love You or Who's Lovin' You, let alone I Want You Back. Maybe now, in my old age, I can listen more fairly.

Excellent post, and I agree 100%.

[midnightman]

When I read this over the weekend I wasn't sure about it being a Pop Classic. I was in college when it was released and considered it bubble-gum Pop - a catchy tune.

Tonight a friend sent me a youtube video of Andy Williams. While listening I saw on the sidebar that Andy recorded "I Think I Love You". If that wasn't strange enough I then saw that Perry Como also recorded it. I wonder if either of them did "One Bad Apple". I don't dare look.

LOL Andy did "I Think I Love You"? You know it's gonna suck lmao

"One Bad Apple" might have been covered by Wayne Newton for all we know lmao I mean that was when he was making his comeback with the teen-pop ish "Daddy Don't You Walk So Fast" despite being nearly 30 years old...

[marv2]

LOL Andy did "I Think I Love You"? You know it's gonna suck lmao

"One Bad Apple" might have been covered by Wayne Newton for all we know lmao I mean that was when he was making his comeback with the teen-pop ish "Daddy Don't You Walk So Fast" despite being nearly 30 years old...

I don't know what you're laughing at, heck Andy Williams was a great singer. I think he did an even better job with the song than the Partridge Family. I remember you were the one that said that B.B. King became a star in 1970 when he got a number one with "The Thrill is Gone"! LOL!!!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Wo4YaYhEPs

[marv2]

Andy nailed that song! hehehehehehehe!