Autopsy: The Last Hours of Florence Ballard on REELZ Channel-Sun 7/29/08 9PM

[midnightman]

A sober and on her game Flo return could've helped the Supremes survive the '70s. But I think Flo really wanted to focus on a solo career from that point on. Doubt Mary would've wanted her back so I don't know how true that story is.

[sup_fan]

when Mary reformed the group with scherrie and cindy, i believe motown was not in favor of the group continuing at all. more than likely, once Jean and Lynda left, i think Berry and team figured the group was done and disbanded. but mary kept pushing and brought the other two in. They sort of floated in limbo as motown didn't really want to do anything with them but finally gave in.

My theory is that berry felt a little sentimental about things and gave the green light to the MSC grouping and recordings. He had certainly dropped other artists before and given the track record of the later supremes records with Jean plus his lack of interest in artistically developing Mary, he could have just said No.

had mary proposed bringing flo back, it definitely would have been a No. Berry wanted nothing to do with Flo. from his perspective, she'd caused huge amounts of turmoil while in the group and had also brought legal action against he and motown.

Mary had to focus on saving herself - not like she had many other options available to her in late 73. trying to be flo's savoir would have been suicide for herself

[midnightman]

And Flo wasn't interested at the end anyway.

[marybrewster]

A Mary, Flo, and Cindy grouping would have NEVER worked. Who would have sung lead? Mary? I doubt Flo would have been a "backup" for her.

So that leaves Mary, Scherrie, and Flo? I can't see that either.

Mary wanted control of the group after Jean and Lynda left, and there's no way she'd have been able to be Flo's "boss".

[midnightman]

Flo would've had to be pulled apart from Mary had that happened... would've destroyed their friendship for good. :/

[PeaceNHarmony]

when Mary reformed the group with scherrie and cindy, i believe motown was not in favor of the group continuing at all. more than likely, once Jean and Lynda left, i think Berry and team figured the group was done and disbanded. but mary kept pushing and brought the other two in. They sort of floated in limbo as motown didn't really want to do anything with them but finally gave in.

My theory is that berry felt a little sentimental about things and gave the green light to the MSC grouping and recordings. He had certainly dropped other artists before and given the track record of the later supremes records with Jean plus his lack of interest in artistically developing Mary, he could have just said No.

had mary proposed bringing flo back, it definitely would have been a No. Berry wanted nothing to do with Flo. from his perspective, she'd caused huge amounts of turmoil while in the group and had also brought legal action against he and motown.

Mary had to focus on saving herself - not like she had many other options available to her in late 73. trying to be flo's savoir would have been suicide for herself
What I find most interesting about your post is the last sentence. Several posters here will agree that Wilson had to 'focus on saving herself' yet excoriate Diana for having done exactly the same things 3 years earlier! They will, undoubtedly, claim the circumstances ... 'different' ...

[sup_fan]

the diana situation is one where you had 3 equal partners at the beginning but then one emerges and overshadows the others. and the group dynamics changed from a group to a solo star with 2 backups. clearly by 68, 69 M and C were not being actively involved in the strategic planning or direction of the group

Supposedly in 70 with Jean, it did return to 3 equal partners. at least according to mary's side of the story. from what i've heard it was NOT equal in Jean's eyes. she was singing nearly all of the leads, was also singing much of the backgrounds. she was leading the majority of the live act too. however she was not being paid what M and C where [[Jean was salaried for the first 12 - 18 months, not sure exactly) and she didn't really have much say in the live act. she was upset that her songs were being cut or squeezed into medleys, they were reverting back to much of the DRATS songbook. Not sure if M helped mastermind this with Gil and motown or who was really responsible. but clearly the 3 women were not making these decisions

by the time Scherrie joined, mary was definitely running the show. Just because she wasn't the lead singer doesn't mean she couldn't/shouldn't "lead" the group. There have been discussions on here over the years about decisions for the group regarding music for the live shows, gowns, etc. it's been pretty clear that those were not group decisions but mary's. It's also been said that some promises were made to Scherrie and Susaye about potentially writing and producing the group.

so from 73 onwards, it was pretty well established that Mary would be leading the direction and management of the group. so i don't see it as being in conflict with what diana did. very different situation

but i also don't believe mary is a good group manager or had the appropriate vision for what the group should be. between her lack of quality decision making for the group and pedro's cluster-f, they were doomed. one of the biggest missteps was that Mary didn't have much self-awareness as to what genre of music she excels at. and how to play that up. the odds of her voice being a "major pop star" is extremely low and after all her years in the industry, she should have realized that. there certainly could have been a niche for her a la Roberta Flack. she would have been amazing in those types of songs. but she should have had the sense to realize that her best chance would have been to remain within the framework of the established Supremes

[midnightman]

Mary was ill-equipped to lead the group, unlike Flo in the very early years and Diana much later. Those two were the geniuses who IMHO held the group to that high standard [[and when that splintered, so did the group itself). Mary on the other hand didn't know which direction to take the group after Jean left in 1973. Up until then, Motown was still pretty much in control over what the Supremes did and it did work some wonders for a while: they were still able to get a few top 20/40 hits, had two top tens but it wasn't like it was when they ruled as DMF or even as DMC [[mainly the era of Diana).

This is not to say Mary was at fault for the group disintegrating but when you hire your abusive husband to overlook the group, that's not a good sign at all.

[Jimi LaLumia]

they were not three equal partners from the beginning..
in the beginning there were actually four..
and Ross didn't 'emerge',she sang lead on most every single 'no hits Supremes' record..
I don't recall hearing of any complaints about it at that time..
and when the H/D/H-Ross 'fusion' brought on the big hits,
it was that Ross success sound that bought all of them their cars,
their furs, their homes..not heard of any complaints about any of that either;
Ross was the lead singer when they had nothing, and her leads brought them
everything..until the day came when the thought occurred that 'anybody
and everybody' could be Diana Ross if they just slept around...
well, if THAT were the case...lol..never mind.. I won't go there..
but just quite down already with the nonsense

[sup_fan]

they were not three equal partners from the beginning..
in the beginning there were actually four..
and Ross didn't 'emerge',she sang lead on most every single 'no hits Supremes' record..
I don't recall hearing of any complaints about it at that time..
and when the H/D/H-Ross 'fusion' brought on the big hits,
it was that Ross success sound that bought all of them their cars,
their furs, their homes..not heard of any complaints about any of that either;
Ross was the lead singer when they had nothing, and her leads brought them
everything..until the day came when the thought occurred that 'anybody
and everybody' could be Diana Ross if they just slept around...
well, if THAT were the case...lol..never mind.. I won't go there..
but just quite down already with the nonsense

all very good points. i was summarizing 9 years of group history into a couple sentences. you're right that the fusion of Supremes and HDH was magic. and much of the magic on record was primarily between Diana and HDH. M and F certainly contributed to the recorded sound but their real impact came in the live performances of the music. on stage you had three enchanting and engaging personalities. it's a shame they didn't let this shine through a bit more on record.

But by 65, things were really starting to be built around Diana.

[sup_fan]

Mary was ill-equipped to lead the group, unlike Flo in the very early years and Diana much later. Those two were the geniuses who IMHO held the group to that high standard [[and when that splintered, so did the group itself). Mary on the other hand didn't know which direction to take the group after Jean left in 1973. Up until then, Motown was still pretty much in control over what the Supremes did and it did work some wonders for a while: they were still able to get a few top 20/40 hits, had two top tens but it wasn't like it was when they ruled as DMF or even as DMC [[mainly the era of Diana).

This is not to say Mary was at fault for the group disintegrating but when you hire your abusive husband to overlook the group, that's not a good sign at all.

makes one wonder 1000 "what ifs"

some of mary's decisions, i'm guessing, are due to the struggle. when you're drowning, you don't always have the time or ability to sit thoughtfully and explore options.

the early years with JMC were wonderful. they re-established themselves and created a new sound. as that began to wane by mid 71/early 72 is where things begin to unravel. Frankly i thought the Floy Joy set worked very well as an evolution of their sound and style. they'd spent 2 years working with frank and, while chart positions didn't always support it, they made a wonderful artistic statement. Sort of a shame they didn't continue to work with Smokey and evolve that sound.

and we all know about the Jimmy Webb decision lol

when Mary reformed the group, i think they did make the right decision to re-amp the glamour and hit the disco scene hard. easy way to re-engage with the core fans and tap into a new generation too. On record with Scherrie in lead, they had some extremely strong moments. but mary was using the group as a platform to launch her solo ambitions. bad idea

on stage during the Scherrie years they suffered. Mary favored the massive Gone With the Wind dresses with huge skirts. did nothing to highlight their sharp disco choreography. They were doing too much cabaret show crap. Mary's voice wasn't really suited to lead the uptempo work. And they should have tapped into Scherrie [[and later Susaye's) songwriting ability. that would have added a more modern and interesting element to the group

[Jimi LaLumia]

it was all over when Frank Wilson was sent on his way, sheer stupidity, the equivalent of DMF losing H/D/H

[Jimi LaLumia]

no more so than things were built around Smokey, Levi, Martha or Gladys..The Supremes, built on the Ross sound, just had bigger success than the others so why then would they divert the lead to others? to be fair? lol Motown was a hard nosed business not a hippie commune,and they were all getting those homes, furs and cars equally, weren't they..they should have never rocked the boat, stayed in Gordy's good graces, let DR leave, and then show us what they could do as solo Motown artists.

[midnightman]

they were not three equal partners from the beginning..
in the beginning there were actually four..
and Ross didn't 'emerge',she sang lead on most every single 'no hits Supremes' record..
I don't recall hearing of any complaints about it at that time..
and when the H/D/H-Ross 'fusion' brought on the big hits,
it was that Ross success sound that bought all of them their cars,
their furs, their homes..not heard of any complaints about any of that either;
Ross was the lead singer when they had nothing, and her leads brought them
everything..until the day came when the thought occurred that 'anybody
and everybody' could be Diana Ross if they just slept around...
well, if THAT were the case...lol..never mind.. I won't go there..
but just quite down already with the nonsense

True. Diana was always singing lead.

The problem is many think what happened in Dreamgirls happened in the Supremes when the truth is a very different story. Much like how people think the Dells' story was like the Five Heartbeats when it wasn't [[The Dells never got in the news for drugs or alcohol and besides Johnny Funches leaving the group to raise his family, no drama with any of the members that you saw in the Five Heartbeats).

That's why the original cast of Dreamgirls protested when the media compared them to the Supremes. No one sang as good as Jennifer Holliday in the Supremes but they were great singers anyway.

People believed a myth.

[midnightman]

makes one wonder 1000 "what ifs"

some of mary's decisions, i'm guessing, are due to the struggle. when you're drowning, you don't always have the time or ability to sit thoughtfully and explore options.

the early years with JMC were wonderful. they re-established themselves and created a new sound. as that began to wane by mid 71/early 72 is where things begin to unravel. Frankly i thought the Floy Joy set worked very well as an evolution of their sound and style. they'd spent 2 years working with frank and, while chart positions didn't always support it, they made a wonderful artistic statement. Sort of a shame they didn't continue to work with Smokey and evolve that sound.

and we all know about the Jimmy Webb decision lol

when Mary reformed the group, i think they did make the right decision to re-amp the glamour and hit the disco scene hard. easy way to re-engage with the core fans and tap into a new generation too. On record with Scherrie in lead, they had some extremely strong moments. but mary was using the group as a platform to launch her solo ambitions. bad idea

on stage during the Scherrie years they suffered. Mary favored the massive Gone With the Wind dresses with huge skirts. did nothing to highlight their sharp disco choreography. They were doing too much cabaret show crap. Mary's voice wasn't really suited to lead the uptempo work. And they should have tapped into Scherrie [[and later Susaye's) songwriting ability. that would have added a more modern and interesting element to the group

True. So many things went wrong. Mary was no Otis Williams... Otis was able to see what was going on as the times changed and the Temptations managed to survive. The Supremes didn't have that luck.

[Jimi LaLumia]

not to mention that most accounts share the fact that Flo was happy with Ross in the lead..Flo's issues were with BERRY GORDY! but I guess hair pulling females is a much more glamorous image to pontificate about on a daily basis! so on with the show!!

[midnightman]

not to mention that most accounts share the fact that Flo was happy with Ross in the lead..Flo's issues were with BERRY GORDY! but I guess hair pulling females is a much more glamorous image to pontificate about on a daily basis! so on with the show!!

Yeah, Flo's issues were mainly with Berry. Flo and Diana were like sisters. When you've been close for as long as they were, you're gonna have spats. Flo's issues were bigger than fighting over a lead singer spot.

[RanRan79]

No one sang as good as Jennifer Holliday in the Supremes but they were great singers anyway.

Says who? Lol Great is relative, isn't it?:p

[RanRan79]

Yeah, Flo's issues were mainly with Berry. Flo and Diana were like sisters. When you've been close for as long as they were, you're gonna have spats. Flo's issues were bigger than fighting over a lead singer spot.

Contrary to that post you responded to, Flo didn't mind Diana in the lead, evidenced by her claim that it was Flo who chose "I Am Woman" for their act as she thought Diana would be great on it. But Florence has never said she didn't want to sing lead. She was a lead singer in the early days, why would she want to move to only background? But even with Diana in the lead spot, Flo and Mary had their places in the spotlight. When it became clear that Gordy was orchestrating a move to where Diana's visibility would increase and Flo and Mary's would decrease, that's when the problems started.

[RanRan79]

And Flo wasn't interested at the end anyway.

Nope. Once Flo was done with the group, she was done. Maybe, just maybe, had Mary's group jumped ship when they should have, and eventually needed a replacement, Flo might, might, have considered joining. But considering the level of hostility you hear in Flo's words about Gordy in the mid 70s and it's clear she would have never come back to his company. Besides, by the time Flo started getting her head back in the singing game she was a 30+ year old woman with three children. The Supremes were her youth and she failed to make the public take notice of her as a solo artist the first time around. I imagine she would have been relishing the chance to emerge from the welfare story as the Flo Ballard, solo star.

[sup_fan]

flo never solved her demons. those plagued her until she died. she said she was wanting back in the business towards the end but who knows what would have come of that. sure she could sing like Aretha [[sort of) and with the greatly expanded R&B scene by the 70s there could certainly have been more stylistic opportunities for her to explore.

Mary and Diana [[along with other Sups like cindy) completely understood the rule that no matter what, you get on that stage and deliver for your audience. they fully believed in that tenant of show business. Flo did not. she was willing to skip rehearsals, PR functions, performances, recording sessions, etc.

Part of what made Diana Ross into DIANA ROSS was her ceaseless work ethic. she did everything humanly possible to ensure that whatever she was responsible for was as close to perfect as possible. she had the drive

I do not believe Flo had the drive to be a major star regardless of the label she was on.

[midnightman]

Nope. Once Flo was done with the group, she was done. Maybe, just maybe, had Mary's group jumped ship when they should have, and eventually needed a replacement, Flo might, might, have considered joining. But considering the level of hostility you hear in Flo's words about Gordy in the mid 70s and it's clear she would have never come back to his company. Besides, by the time Flo started getting her head back in the singing game she was a 30+ year old woman with three children. The Supremes were her youth and she failed to make the public take notice of her as a solo artist the first time around. I imagine she would have been relishing the chance to emerge from the welfare story as the Flo Ballard, solo star.

I kept thinking of Bettye LaVette when it was mentioned Florence had started to sing again in 1975 and was like "I wonder had Flo lived, would she have a career like Bettye's?" I can definitely see it.

Too young to go. Way too young... her demons may have just caught up with her and God decided "you suffered enough, my child, come home", despite the fact she had three children to take care of.

UGH... it gets sadder and sadder the more that I think about it! :[[

[RanRan79]

flo never solved her demons. those plagued her until she died. she said she was wanting back in the business towards the end but who knows what would have come of that. sure she could sing like Aretha [[sort of) and with the greatly expanded R&B scene by the 70s there could certainly have been more stylistic opportunities for her to explore.

Mary and Diana [[along with other Sups like cindy) completely understood the rule that no matter what, you get on that stage and deliver for your audience. they fully believed in that tenant of show business. Flo did not. she was willing to skip rehearsals, PR functions, performances, recording sessions, etc.

Part of what made Diana Ross into DIANA ROSS was her ceaseless work ethic. she did everything humanly possible to ensure that whatever she was responsible for was as close to perfect as possible. she had the drive

I do not believe Flo had the drive to be a major star regardless of the label she was on.

Diana's work ethic is unsurpassed, but she also had someone pushing her into exhaustion and an eating disorder. Flo's work ethic doesn't ever seem to come into question until 1966, at which point it's pretty well documented that many of her bad decisions were under the influence of alcohol, mood altering medication and working closely with people she didn't trust. Comparing 32 year old Florence to 24 year old Florence doesn't seem fair to me. Demons she may have had, but it appears that doesn't make her the exception in the music business, it's the rule, considering how many superstars seemed to have had worst issues than Florence ever did. And being a part of a group on the level of the Supremes and being a single artist is also a world of difference. I don't know if Flo would have ever achieved hit singles, but I see no reason to doubt her ability to have given the game at least one more go.

[RanRan79]

I kept thinking of Bettye LaVette when it was mentioned Florence had started to sing again in 1975 and was like "I wonder had Flo lived, would she have a career like Bettye's?" I can definitely see it.

Too young to go. Way too young... her demons may have just caught up with her and God decided "you suffered enough, my child, come home", despite the fact she had three children to take care of.

UGH... it gets sadder and sadder the more that I think about it! :[[

I don't see why not. I have tons of singers in my collection who recorded music for many years, sometimes with long breaks in between. Often they failed to find more than one hit, but they were steadily working and recording. I can't imagine why Florence would've been so different. Flo was always going to be a star. She was one of the world famous Supremes, and of course no one was going to forget her "rags to riches to rags" story anytime soon. She could have definitely parlayed that into, at the very least, semi regular singing work.

[midnightman]

I don't see why not. I have tons of singers in my collection who recorded music for many years, sometimes with long breaks in between. Often they failed to find more than one hit, but they were steadily working and recording. I can't imagine why Florence would've been so different. Flo was always going to be a star. She was one of the world famous Supremes, and of course no one was going to forget her "rags to riches to rags" story anytime soon. She could have definitely parlayed that into, at the very least, semi regular singing work.

Right. I can imagine the articles and then if she won a Grammy. Now that would be one of those "ultimate comeback stories". Forget Effie White, she would've been singing interpretations of pop and rock songs as well as Bettye did. I mean she DID do I Am Woman at her final gig lol

[TheMotownManiac]

when Mary reformed the group with scherrie and cindy, i believe motown was not in favor of the group continuing at all. more than likely, once Jean and Lynda left, i think Berry and team figured the group was done and disbanded. but mary kept pushing and brought the other two in. They sort of floated in limbo as motown didn't really want to do anything with them but finally gave in.

My theory is that berry felt a little sentimental about things and gave the green light to the MSC grouping and recordings. He had certainly dropped other artists before and given the track record of the later supremes records with Jean plus his lack of interest in artistically developing Mary, he could have just said No.

had mary proposed bringing flo back, it definitely would have been a No. Berry wanted nothing to do with Flo. from his perspective, she'd caused huge amounts of turmoil while in the group and had also brought legal action against he and motown.

Mary had to focus on saving herself - not like she had many other options available to her in late 73. trying to be flo's savoir would have been suicide for herself

If Motown was against the new grouping - they wouldn’t have renewed the contract with Mary. It was Mary who kept the group in limbo with the name fight. Once it was settled, they went into the studio with HDH no less to get it back together. They did all the TV they could get on, trade ads, live gigs, Diana gave them a nod while plugging Mahogany on Johnny Carson - 45 and 12” single releases - what more could they do? He’s My Man could have hit better with some tweaking on Mary’s vocal and Scherrie’s enouciation. It’s really a killer track and the last half is near-pop perfection. It could easily have been their ticket back to life. And I do not blame Motown for its failure at all.

Had Flo returned with Mary and Scherrie it would have been ideal. But who was gonna raise her kids? Flo would have done better as there was a much lighter schedule in 75 that in 67 - no new routines to learn for TV - not the hectic travel and not the tv, paper and radio interviews in each city. Flo could have done it.

[TheMotownManiac]

when Mary reformed the group with scherrie and cindy, i believe motown was not in favor of the group continuing at all. more than likely, once Jean and Lynda left, i think Berry and team figured the group was done and disbanded. but mary kept pushing and brought the other two in. They sort of floated in limbo as motown didn't really want to do anything with them but finally gave in.

My theory is that berry felt a little sentimental about things and gave the green light to the MSC grouping and recordings. He had certainly dropped other artists before and given the track record of the later supremes records with Jean plus his lack of interest in artistically developing Mary, he could have just said No.

had mary proposed bringing flo back, it definitely would have been a No. Berry wanted nothing to do with Flo. from his perspective, she'd caused huge amounts of turmoil while in the group and had also brought legal action against he and motown.

Mary had to focus on saving herself - not like she had many other options available to her in late 73. trying to be flo's savoir would have been suicide for herself

If Motown was against the new grouping - they wouldn’t have renewed the contract with Mary. It was Mary who kept the group in limbo with the name fight. Once it was settled, they went into the studio with HDH no less to get it back together. They did all the TV they could get on, trade ads, live gigs, Diana gave them a nod while plugging Mahogany on Johnny Carson - 45 and 12” single releases - what more could they do? He’s My Man could have hit better with some tweaking on Mary’s vocal and Scherrie’s enouciation. It’s really a killer track and the last half is near-pop perfection. It could easily have been their ticket back to life. And I do not blame Motown for its failure at all.

Had Flo returned with Mary and Scherrie it would have been ideal. But who was gonna raise her kids? Flo would have done better as there was a much lighter schedule in 75 that in 67 - no new routines to learn for TV - not the hectic travel and not the tv, paper and radio interviews in each city. Flo could have done it.

mary would have had to be generous with decision making with Flo. Each could have had a featured spot with Scherrie doing the leads on the hits and pop pieces. Mary could have nailed a ballad or two, with Flo tearing up a few R&B songs. THAT would have been The Supremes enough for me!

[midnightman]

TBH though, Flo, when she was in the Supremes, didn't mind it if Diana and Mary had more leads than her so I doubt she would've raised a fuss had she joined them again if they were able to leave with the name and leave Motown.

[sup_fan]

If Motown was against the new grouping - they wouldn’t have renewed the contract with Mary. It was Mary who kept the group in limbo with the name fight. Once it was settled, they went into the studio with HDH no less to get it back together. They did all the TV they could get on, trade ads, live gigs, Diana gave them a nod while plugging Mahogany on Johnny Carson - 45 and 12” single releases - what more could they do? He’s My Man could have hit better with some tweaking on Mary’s vocal and Scherrie’s enouciation. It’s really a killer track and the last half is near-pop perfection. It could easily have been their ticket back to life. And I do not blame Motown for its failure at all.

Had Flo returned with Mary and Scherrie it would have been ideal. But who was gonna raise her kids? Flo would have done better as there was a much lighter schedule in 75 that in 67 - no new routines to learn for TV - not the hectic travel and not the tv, paper and radio interviews in each city. Flo could have done it.

mary would have had to be generous with decision making with Flo. Each could have had a featured spot with Scherrie doing the leads on the hits and pop pieces. Mary could have nailed a ballad or two, with Flo tearing up a few R&B songs. THAT would have been The Supremes enough for me!

see i've heard that part of the dragging of feet with contract negotiations was the motown had little interest in the group. it should have been pretty quick and easy to buy out Scherrie's contract with Invictus but it took them months. mary didn't really start the push for the name until early 74.

[TheMotownManiac]

There was no need to hurry to buy out Scherrie as there was no official group at the time to sign her to as Mary was not signing anything without the name. She says this in her book - Which, I admit, doesn’t exactly mean it’s true…… But, in this case, she has no reason to… Creatively push the truth around in a manner beneficial to her self.

[BayouMotownMan]

There was no need to hurry to buy out Scherrie as there was no official group at the time to sign her to as Mary was not signing anything without the name. She says this in her book - Which, I admit, doesn’t exactly mean it’s true…… But, in this case, she has no reason to… Creatively push the truth around in a manner beneficial to her self.

Scherrie and Cindy made their first appearances with Mary in late Oct 1973. Scherrie was still under full contract to Invictus, which was in a deep state of flux and in the process of closing down. Motown had to deal with the Holland Bros, which had to be difficult because Eddie Holland had always kept BG in court.

Ewart Abner and other higher ups were furious with Mary for recruiting these ladies without their knowledge or input. Gordy had hoped that with Mary getting married she'd be out of his hair.

In early 1974 Mary appealed to the fans to bombard Motown with letters of demand through Randy Taraborrelli's Supremes fan club. I know I wrote dozens of letters. While Gordy suspected Mary was behind this letter writing campaign, management at Motown still had to take notice that there was still demand for a grouping of Supremes. Additionally, revues with Scherrie involved were glorious and Motown had to acknowledge this as well.

Finally in late 1974 Mary agreed to a percentage on the group name and all three ladies signed. In fact, the Holland brothers came back to Motown to produce music. Mary Wilson was also pregnant through this ordeal and Cindy was divorcing her husband.

Believe me when I tell you from 73-75 there was a ton of drama regarding The Supremes.

[sup_fan]

Believe me when I tell you from 73-75 there was a ton of drama regarding The Supremes.

would be very interested in hearing more about the situation. some of the different options that might have been discussed or available, some of the details of decisions

[midnightman]

What was the percentage she agreed to, Bayou? Have any idea how much that she agreed with Motown to have the Supremes enter a new contract? It does seem like after 1973, Motown wanted to finish the Supremes then.

[sup_fan]

i think it was 50% of the sales price of the name. but only the sales price if sold. she had no rights to usage or exploitation of the name

[RanRan79]

A Go Go only made things worse for a Flo as she’s not on half of it, Mary got a lead and it went to #1 - so I’m sure her feelings were hurt learning that she wasn’t needed on their highest charting album.

That's not true. The only song Flo isn't on [[aside from Diana's "Boots" solo) is "Put Yourself In My Place", which of course we know now is Mary and Marlene. "You Can't Hurry Love" is questionable. But the tracks attributed to Mary and Marlene mostly ended up in the can, not on the original album. A Go Go is as much a Flo album as the previous ones.

[midnightman]

i think it was 50% of the sales price of the name. but only the sales price if sold. she had no rights to usage or exploitation of the name

Oh Lord... that wasn't a good business move at all! :[[

[midnightman]

That's not true. The only song Flo isn't on [[aside from Diana's "Boots" solo) is "Put Yourself In My Place", which of course we know now is Mary and Marlene. "You Can't Hurry Love" is questionable. But the tracks attributed to Mary and Marlene mostly ended up in the can, not on the original album. A Go Go is as much a Flo album as the previous ones.

I think YCHL could've been Flo, Mary and Marlene?

One Supremes song I question is Stop! In the Name of Love. I think Flo and Mary is on it but it sounded like a third girl was also singing background with them. In the extended version, when they are singing acapella, you hear this stronger sounding STOP! at the end of it that could've been an Andante with Flo and Mary too?

[PeaceNHarmony]

Believe me when I tell you from 73-75 there was a ton of drama regarding The Supremes.
We know, we know! But some revisionists try to make believe that all the drama came from Diana. Whateves. That's all they have - let 'em have it.

[marv2]

it was all over when Frank Wilson was sent on his way, sheer stupidity, the equivalent of DMF losing H/D/H

I have to agree with this. It was almost like sabotage, but I am not a conspiracy theorist. LOL!!!!

[marv2]

I kept thinking of Bettye LaVette when it was mentioned Florence had started to sing again in 1975 and was like "I wonder had Flo lived, would she have a career like Bettye's?" I can definitely see it.

Too young to go. Way too young... her demons may have just caught up with her and God decided "you suffered enough, my child, come home", despite the fact she had three children to take care of.

UGH... it gets sadder and sadder the more that I think about it! :[[

You should have been around the moment the death announcement hit the Detroit local TV news or the day of the funeral. Sad is not the word.

[midnightman]

We know, we know! But some revisionists try to make believe that all the drama came from Diana. Whateves. That's all they have - let 'em have it.

And that drama followed them when Mary left. The Supremes weren't officially disbanded until the end of 1977. Not on the date Mary left lol

[RanRan79]

I think YCHL could've been Flo, Mary and Marlene?

One Supremes song I question is Stop! In the Name of Love. I think Flo and Mary is on it but it sounded like a third girl was also singing background with them. In the extended version, when they are singing acapella, you hear this stronger sounding STOP! at the end of it that could've been an Andante with Flo and Mary too?

I don't think there's three on background on "Hurry". It's either Flo and Mary or Mary and Marlene. "Stop" is controversial because apparently there's been two official stories from the guys who do the set booklets. I think for one set it is said that the single version it's Flo, Mary and one[[?) Andante and then another set says it's just the Andantes. I think it's the Supremes and the Andantes. The backgrounds don't sound so different to me, except the very first version on the pink box set, which is undeniably Florence.

[sup_fan]

YCHL background vocals were recorded on July 5, 1966 and that was the day they recorded MIsery, Just a little misunderstanding and others. it's been documented with the session logs that flo was NOT at the session and marlene was. there are also no subsequent recording dates for this song so she was not added later. All of this data comes from the liner notes/booklet for A Go Go Expanded

Flo is not on YCHL

on A Go Go she is on all tracks but Put Yourself In My Place, You Can't Hurry Love and Boots.

if you look at the hit singles, flo missed several important songs - YCHL, Stop [[where she might be on it along with the Andantes), In and out [[her vocals were covered over by the andantes) and there are rumors about whether or not she's on Reflections.

[sup_fan]

And that drama followed them when Mary left. The Supremes weren't officially disbanded until the end of 1977. Not on the date Mary left lol

actually the group would have disbanded as of either the dates of the contract expiration or another legal agreement overriding a contract in place

As of June 77, the officially signed group known as the supremes consisted of Mary, scherrie and Susaye. After their performance at the Drury Lane, they did not have any subsequent recording sessions [[that we know of), no additional performances on stage or tv, no official personal appearances, etc.

So a group could technically exist legally

[midnightman]

actually the group would have disbanded as of either the dates of the contract expiration or another legal agreement overriding a contract in place

As of June 77, the officially signed group known as the supremes consisted of Mary, scherrie and Susaye. After their performance at the Drury Lane, they did not have any subsequent recording sessions [[that we know of), no additional performances on stage or tv, no official personal appearances, etc.

So a group could technically exist legally

I see. I wonder how long that contract Mary had signed with the Supremes was set to expire? Did she ever bring it up in the Someday We'll Be Together memoirs? I'm guessing after she left the group, she could no longer fight for ownership of the group though she kept trying in the '80s?

[midnightman]

I don't think there's three on background on "Hurry". It's either Flo and Mary or Mary and Marlene. "Stop" is controversial because apparently there's been two official stories from the guys who do the set booklets. I think for one set it is said that the single version it's Flo, Mary and one[[?) Andante and then another set says it's just the Andantes. I think it's the Supremes and the Andantes. The backgrounds don't sound so different to me, except the very first version on the pink box set, which is undeniably Florence.

The Supremes and Andantes being on "Stop!" makes sense because you definitely hear a blend of their voices. But the way it was recorded, it's so muddled you can't tell. I know it's Flo and Mary behind Diana when they're doing "baby baby, baby baby" and "think it over" but when you get to the chorus, it definitely sounds like more voices. WHEW! I mean we had a "Wall of Sound" in California but that's a wall of sound if the Supremes and Andantes are singing "stop in the name of love before..." together.

[midnightman]

YCHL background vocals were recorded on July 5, 1966 and that was the day they recorded MIsery, Just a little misunderstanding and others. it's been documented with the session logs that flo was NOT at the session and marlene was. there are also no subsequent recording dates for this song so she was not added later. All of this data comes from the liner notes/booklet for A Go Go Expanded

Flo is not on YCHL

on A Go Go she is on all tracks but Put Yourself In My Place, You Can't Hurry Love and Boots.

if you look at the hit singles, flo missed several important songs - YCHL, Stop [[where she might be on it along with the Andantes), In and out [[her vocals were covered over by the andantes) and there are rumors about whether or not she's on Reflections.

I see! I mean I thought it sounded like Marlene on Hurry but wasn't sure...

[franjoy56]

makes one wonder 1000 "what ifs"

some of mary's decisions, i'm guessing, are due to the struggle. when you're drowning, you don't always have the time or ability to sit thoughtfully and explore options.

the early years with JMC were wonderful. they re-established themselves and created a new sound. as that began to wane by mid 71/early 72 is where things begin to unravel. Frankly i thought the Floy Joy set worked very well as an evolution of their sound and style. they'd spent 2 years working with frank and, while chart positions didn't always support it, they made a wonderful artistic statement. Sort of a shame they didn't continue to work with Smokey and evolve that sound.

and we all know about the Jimmy Webb decision lol

when Mary reformed the group, i think they did make the right decision to re-amp the glamour and hit the disco scene hard. easy way to re-engage with the core fans and tap into a new generation too. On record with Scherrie in lead, they had some extremely strong moments. but mary was using the group as a platform to launch her solo ambitions. bad idea

on stage during the Scherrie years they suffered. Mary favored the massive Gone With the Wind dresses with huge skirts. did nothing to highlight their sharp disco choreography. They were doing too much cabaret show crap. Mary's voice wasn't really suited to lead the uptempo work. And they should have tapped into Scherrie [[and later Susaye's) songwriting ability. that would have added a more modern and interesting element to the group ur analaysis is very good, i would add that scherrie should gotten more leads during this period u see what iglmhdtw did but after it stopped at no. 40 motown let it die

[TheMotownManiac]

Motown “let it die?” How did they do that exactly? How do you work a record into the top 40 and let it die? Why? Fact is, it’s not that good of a record. It’s just a dance tune with an annoying intro.

[franjoy56]

Motown “let it die?” How did they do that exactly? How do you work a record into the top 40 and let it die? Why? Fact is, it’s not that good of a record. It’s just a dance tune with an annoying intro. how do u let a record die djs stop playing it. Scherrie even said radio stations were told not to play supremes records after 74 but play ross records instead. Iglmhdtw was a hit and it definetly should have surpassed t top 40 peak. Thank goodness it caught on ion t disco charts and clubs hitting number 3. U let a record die by stop promoting it when its at a critical break or bullet up point. Another record was bad weather. I couldnt find that single until its run was over

[franjoy56]

Please mr postman in which flo was involved btw took 3 months to hit t top because t promotion was there and iglmhdtw did get promted in t beginning with the phrase across the board action but died at its critical point in july or aug 76

[Roberta75]

Please mr postman in which flo was involved btw took 3 months to hit t top because t promotion was there and iglmhdtw did get promted in t beginning with the phrase across the board action but died at its critical point in july or aug 76

If IGLMHDTW had the potential to be a top 10 hit it would have been a top 10 hit. Motown didnt kill the 70s Supremes Mary Wilson bringing Pedro Ferrer in as Manager killed the 70s Supremes. All the Supremes hated him for the way he abused Mary and the execs at Motown were sick of his women abusing butt and his ridiculous demmands.

[franjoy56]

If IGLMHDTW had the potential to be a top 10 hit it would have been a top 10 hit. Motown didnt kill the 70s Supremes Mary Wilson bringing Pedro Ferrer in as Manager killed the 70s Supremes. All the Supremes hated him for the way he abused Mary and the execs at Motown were sick of his women abusing butt and his ridiculous demmands. the supremes were slipping before pedro came in and yes pedro was abusing mary and cindy scherrie and susaye were witnesses and that abuse should have been nipped in t bud. But if motown had continued mgmt of the supremes after jean left they would have died a quicker death. At least pedro got the group a decent hit album high energy with him getting some bookings w a top 40 single at best. Iglmhdtw was meant to be in the top 20 myb top 10 if it was in the cards. I wasnt an insider but the record excluding bad weather was a far cry from their previous releases

[TheMotownManiac]

Please mr postman in which flo was involved btw took 3 months to hit t top because t promotion was there and iglmhdtw did get promted in t beginning with the phrase across the board action but died at its critical point in july or aug 76

what kind of promotion expert are you, sweetness? Please Mr Postman was 15 years prior to this and was released as a race record in many areas of the US. There is no logical way you can compare the two situations - it was two different worlds. IGLMHDTW wasn’t getting any more adds because the song wasn’t going high on any markets. Billboard published those reports to aid program directors - thevsong just wasn’t getting past the halfway point. Motown plugged the hell out of he’s my man and it tanked.

[RanRan79]

where was cousin Hank the legendary singer who wrote and performed the twist? Did he show at the funeral? Are there any pics of him with his cousin? Have yet to see one

I don't believe they are cousins. It has never been documented in any reliable way. Just silly folks thinking all Ballards are related, I'm guessing.

[johnny_raven]

I don't believe they are cousins. It has never been documented in any reliable way. Just silly folks thinking all Ballards are related, I'm guessing.

Hank Ballard's real name is John Henry Kendricks. Maybe he's related to Eddie ... ? :p

[reese]

I believe Hank Ballard was indeed related to Flo, but I can't remember where I read it.

[midnightman]

Hank Ballard came from Detroit but had family in Bessemer, Alabama. Jessie Lambert was from Bessemer. Jessie was adopted by a Ballard family... it's possible but I don't know if it can be proven?

[midnightman]

where was cousin Hank the legendary singer who wrote and performed the twist? Did he show at the funeral? Are there any pics of him with his cousin? Have yet to see one

Yeah they may not be related at all. Hank also has been dead for 15 years and neither him nor Flo when she was living ever mentioned the other.

[reese]

Hank Ballard came from Detroit but had family in Bessemer, Alabama. Jessie Lambert was from Bessemer. Jessie was adopted by a Ballard family... it's possible but I don't know if it can be proven?

Interesting. I believe Diana's maternal family is from Bessemer as well.

[RanRan79]

I believe Hank Ballard was indeed related to Flo, but I can't remember where I read it.

It's been written a couple of places but I've never seen it attributed to a reputable source. I have yet to read Flo or anyone in her family regarding this connection. There was nothing in the Flo bio or in Maxine's book about it either.

[RanRan79]

Hank Ballard came from Detroit but had family in Bessemer, Alabama. Jessie Lambert was from Bessemer. Jessie was adopted by a Ballard family... it's possible but I don't know if it can be proven?

That would certainly be a wild coincidence. Lol I believe Jesse's adopted Ballard family was from Mississippi if I'm not mistaken.

[RanRan79]

Interesting. I believe Diana's maternal family is from Bessemer as well.

Yes they are [[as is Bo Jackson's family). I wonder if Diana and Flo's Bessemer relatives knew one another. Wouldn't that be crazy?

[midnightman]

Interesting. I believe Diana's maternal family is from Bessemer as well.

Sure did. Think Diana stayed there for two weeks when Ernestine was gravely ill.

[midnightman]

That would certainly be a wild coincidence. Lol I believe Jesse's adopted Ballard family was from Mississippi if I'm not mistaken.

Yeah, Rosetta, Mississippi.

You know what's crazy? For years, people put it that Flo was from Mississippi and Maxine had to correct them and say "no, most of us were born in Detroit".

[marv2]

Interesting. I believe Diana's maternal family is from Bessemer as well.

The guy that fixed my brother's lawn mower is from Bessemer, AL.

[midnightman]

It's been written a couple of places but I've never seen it attributed to a reputable source. I have yet to read Flo or anyone in her family regarding this connection. There was nothing in the Flo bio or in Maxine's book about it either.

Then that was another fable that got passed as truth as time went on and people were like "well if that's true, that's true". Just like that rumor that somehow David Ruffin, Rick James and Melvin Franklin were, in one way or another, "related" to each other.

[johnny_raven]

There are several Florence Ballard family trees on Ancestry, some are quite extensive. Not one of them has Hank ballard [[or John Henry Kendricks) in them.

[marv2]

Then that was another fable that got passed as truth as time went on and people were like "well if that's true, that's true". Just like that rumor that somehow David Ruffin, Rick James and Melvin Franklin were, in one way or another, "related" to each other.

No, no one has ever said that. Melvin Franklin [[aka David English) and Richard Street were cousins [[I went to school with a couple of Richard's cousins). Melvin Franklin was the uncle of Rick James. Those are the three that were related.

[marv2]

Yeah, Rosetta, Mississippi.

You know what's crazy? For years, people put it that Flo was from Mississippi and Maxine had to correct them and say "no, most of us were born in Detroit".

No! That is wrong. Jesse [[Ballard) Lambert was from Bessemer, AL. Lurlee Ballard, Florence's mom was from Rosetta, Mississippi.

[marv2]

her relation to hank was mentioned in several articles including wikpedia which is supposedly the most reliable

No one had denied it anywhere but here. I don't know if they are actually related.

[midnightman]

her relation to hank was mentioned in several articles including wikpedia which is supposedly the most reliable

WIKIPEDIA, that should be a red flag. Most articles quoted Wikipedia's article on her with that dubious claim. One thing about Wiki is if it questions a claim, they'll put a "confirm this" like sign on the statement so they have that going for them.

[RanRan79]

Sure did. Think Diana stayed there for two weeks when Ernestine was gravely ill.

She was actually there long enough to be enrolled in school, so I'm guessing longer than two weeks. Lol

[RanRan79]

Yeah, Rosetta, Mississippi.

You know what's crazy? For years, people put it that Flo was from Mississippi and Maxine had to correct them and say "no, most of us were born in Detroit".

I think even the Rosetta part is fishy. Lurlee was from Freewoods [[which has an interesting history, which Flo's family is tied to) but I think Jesse's adopted family was from further north in the state. But I have seen it written countless times that Flo was from Rosetta. That's people not doing their homework.

[RanRan79]

her relation to hank was mentioned in several articles including wikpedia which is supposedly the most reliable

Wikipedia is not an accepted source because anyone can sign in and add information. Now if anyone can locate confirmation via a Flo Ballard or Hank Ballard relative or quote from either person, then it will be what it is. Until then, for my information, I file the claim under "myth".

[midnightman]

I think even the Rosetta part is fishy. Lurlee was from Freewoods [[which has an interesting history, which Flo's family is tied to) but I think Jesse's adopted family was from further north in the state. But I have seen it written countless times that Flo was from Rosetta. That's people not doing their homework.

Didn't know Lurlee was from Freewoods, MS... hmm... maybe the Rosetta thing is just a myth but where did it start?!

[RanRan79]

Didn't know Lurlee was from Freewoods, MS... hmm... maybe the Rosetta thing is just a myth but where did it start?!

I think Mary's first book is where people connect Flo to Rosetta. Mary did say she got some help from a couple of Flo's sisters for the Flo portions of her first book, so maybe one of them said the family was from Rosetta. I can tell you from my experience as a family historian that you can talk to siblings with the same parents to get their recollections on the family origins and you may end up with different answers to questions like "where was such and such born", and then you find an official document that the person in question may have had to answer a place of birth and only then do you discover that some of that person's kids didn't know what they were talking about. Lol [[Sometimes it's not even that they didn't know what they were talking about, but simply made assumptions because someone lived in a particular place at one time, etc.). Anyway, I don't recall Maxine mentioning Rosetta in her book, only Freewoods. Maybe the family did at some point live in Rosetta though.

[midnightman]

I think Mary's first book is where people connect Flo to Rosetta. Mary did say she got some help from a couple of Flo's sisters for the Flo portions of her first book, so maybe one of them said the family was from Rosetta. I can tell you from my experience as a family historian that you can talk to siblings with the same parents to get their recollections on the family origins and you may end up with different answers to questions like "where was such and such born", and then you find an official document that the person in question may have had to answer a place of birth and only then do you discover that some of that person's kids didn't know what they were talking about. Lol [[Sometimes it's not even that they didn't know what they were talking about, but simply made assumptions because someone lived in a particular place at one time, etc.). Anyway, I don't recall Maxine mentioning Rosetta in her book, only Freewoods. Maybe the family did at some point live in Rosetta though.

Maybe but why even go with that assumption and put it in your book? That's why it's important to do more research lol

But yeah that could be true. I remember for years that my father said they came from Virginia, then my aunt had to remind me my grandfather came from Enfield, NC [[my dad was born in NYC). So yeah it happens.

[johnny_raven]

According to the 1920 Census [[when Lurlee was 9, going on 10), her family lived in Knoxville, MS.

[midnightman]

Now things get more suspicious...

[johnny_raven]

Although Freewoods and Rosetta are both less than 5 miles from Knoxville ...

[sup_fan]

while of course i wasn't there, there have been multiple books that site this. so i think it's true. in some later interviews, flo even notes that maybe there were situations they both could have handled better.

the girls were not lifelong friends. they met while in high school through the Primes setting up the Primettes. as far as i can tell, they weren't even really close friends prior to the Primettes. sure they knew one another. M and F apparently both sang in a talent show at school. but in none of the books is there significant content, recollections or stories of funny times, antics, adventures, etc that they had prior the formation of the Primettes.

so they didn't have a long and strong history and bond prior to the group. but they did certainly share an amazing experience together. with time and maturity that comes with age, i think D and F both recognized where they had been right and where they'd been wrong in the past. and while they might not ever be "sisters" again, they could at least mend old fences.

[RanRan79]

Maybe but why even go with that assumption and put it in your book? That's why it's important to do more research lol

Well I don't think that's the kind of thing you vet out when your writing your own autobiography and decide to include a little history of someone connected to your story. I think Mary did what she was supposed to do: she asked one or more Ballards about the family origins and that's what she was told. She had no reason to question it.

[RanRan79]

In earlier thread someone mentioned that Flo went to see Mahagony in 1975 then called Diana and had a long conversation with her to smooth things over. Is that true? If so it makes sense that Diana was overwhelmed with grief at the funeral. I wouldnt make much sense for Diana to be saddened as much if they were bitter rivals till the day Flo died but then again some people put their past indifferences aside when it comes to death

Both Flo [[in her interviews with Peter Benjaminson) and Diana [[in one or more publications after Flo's death) confirmed this conversation. IMO the fans have a bigger rivalry going on than anything that took place between Diana and Florence. They were both young ladies trying to figure out their place in this world and they often handled situations in an immature fashion like 99 percent of the other folks their age. Like most people who allow themselves to mature and wise up, they weren't interested in carrying on the bickering of 20 somethings in the 1960s into being 30 something with children in the 1970s. While both have recalled some bad times, both Flo and Diana have spoken about the fact that there was genuine love between them. Only the fans seem to want to keep the nonsense going.

[RanRan79]

while of course i wasn't there, there have been multiple books that site this. so i think it's true. in some later interviews, flo even notes that maybe there were situations they both could have handled better.

the girls were not lifelong friends. they met while in high school through the Primes setting up the Primettes. as far as i can tell, they weren't even really close friends prior to the Primettes. sure they knew one another. M and F apparently both sang in a talent show at school. but in none of the books is there significant content, recollections or stories of funny times, antics, adventures, etc that they had prior the formation of the Primettes.

so they didn't have a long and strong history and bond prior to the group. but they did certainly share an amazing experience together. with time and maturity that comes with age, i think D and F both recognized where they had been right and where they'd been wrong in the past. and while they might not ever be "sisters" again, they could at least mend old fences.

I pretty much agree with this, although I would add that there are very few lifelong friends when you're 13/14 years old. Lol That's usually the age when you do start to find "lifelong" friends. Mary says that she and Flo became friends after that talent show, and she also wrote that she and Diana were already in the same circle of friends, but they weren't close friends. Would these three people have become friends without the Primettes? Stranger things have happened, and in the world of adolescents it's impossible to rule anything out. Lol But they did bond through the group and I think throughout their lives we see their bonds show up every now and then. You don't buy Christmas presents and pay for surgeries and loan large sums of money unless there's something more than a past working relationship at play. Lol

[RanRan79]

Sup fan, did you see my reply to you in the Bring It On Home to Me thread?

[RanRan79]

Although Freewoods and Rosetta are both less than 5 miles from Knoxville ...

Makes sense, the same general area.

[midnightman]

Well I don't think that's the kind of thing you vet out when your writing your own autobiography and decide to include a little history of someone connected to your story. I think Mary did what she was supposed to do: she asked one or more Ballards about the family origins and that's what she was told. She had no reason to question it.

That does make sense.

[ralpht]

I deleted the thread. A rather silly topic in my opinion. As a point of interest, good road crews will use a QTip dipped in mouthwash to clean the wind screen of the mics and get rid of any foul odors accumulating there.

[midnightman]

I knew I blocked this person for a reason. Just why? Thanks Ralph for deleting that thread!

[Roberta75]

back in the 60's entertainers didnt pay much attention to halitosis or if their mouth stunk after smoking. Nowadays they take better care of their teeth brushing etc. If i detect any sort of mouth odor on a woman i am dating any beauty associated with them goes down the toilet . In my opinion if Flo Ballard Diana Ross or Mary Wilson breath stunk i am no longer infatuated with them. Thats how i am

Im blocking you. Have a real nice life.

[IMissFlo93]

back in the 60's entertainers didnt pay much attention to halitosis or if their mouth stunk after smoking. Nowadays they take better care of their teeth brushing etc. If i detect any sort of mouth odor on a woman i am dating any beauty associated with them goes down the toilet . In my opinion if Flo Ballard Diana Ross or Mary Wilson breath stunk i am no longer infatuated with them. Thats how i am

Gaack-aack! Thanks for bringing up their bad breath, fartski322! :mad:You just ruined good music and the appreciation of culture and crossover appeal. Shouldn't we be celebrating music and not bring back the everyday BAD parts of the 60s and lifestyles of certain people!


Look, I wouldn't date someone with bad breath either, but Flo is dead and Diana and Mary are growing old. Why should it matter by now? You just basically ruined memories of various trips to see family with the music i listened to in the car, let alone my collection of Supremes albums and singles.

I wonder if truly have a problem with bad breath, a young kid, or just a troll.

[milven]

back in the 60's entertainers didnt pay much attention to halitosis or if their mouth stunk after smoking. Nowadays they take better care of their teeth brushing etc. If i detect any sort of mouth odor on a woman i am dating any beauty associated with them goes down the toilet . In my opinion if Flo Ballard Diana Ross or Mary Wilson breath stunk i am no longer infatuated with them. Thats how i am

I'm glad the moderator deleted your thread. I can understand why you would be interested in odors. After all, look at the screen name that you picked for yourself fartski322

What a ridiculous post on a music board. We are not interested in odors here. Perhaps your posts and questions would be better suited on a board about body functions, persperation and bad breath.

[marv2]

In earlier thread someone mentioned that Flo went to see Mahagony in 1975 then called Diana and had a long conversation with her to smooth things over. Is that true? If so it makes sense that Diana was overwhelmed with grief at the funeral. I wouldnt make much sense for Diana to be saddened as much if they were bitter rivals till the day Flo died but then again some people put their past indifferences aside when it comes to death

That is not true. That did not happen.

[midnightman]

Think this person was a previously banned SDFer that is mad that Ralph banned them... be on alert people...

https://media.giphy.com/media/13jBJxI4dKKRi0/giphy.gif

[snakepit]

[QUOTE=midnightman;485374]Think this person was a previously banned SDFer that is mad that Ralph banned them... be on alert people...



https://media.giphy.com/media/13jBJxI4dKKRi0/giphy.gif[/QUOT

You may be correct about that

[snakepit]

Is that remark aimed at me or the several others who have very quickly taken a dislike to your posts?

[snakepit]

Yet you've been blocked by several members....I wonder why?
If you are referring to the post with the video of a door closing and you being banned previously...I didn't post it!
You seem to have a problem reading and comprehending information.

[midnightman]

He's probably talking about me. ;)
This dude definitely is illiterate.

[ralpht]

Sorry for the recent problem, gang. I don't remember approving fartski's application for membership. Anyway, I banned him permanently. also, I'm sorry for the delay. Sick as a dog right now. Nothing makes me feel a little better when not feeling well than getting rid of some asshole trying to mess with the forum

[snakepit]

Koko Ralph.

[marv2]

Sorry for the recent problem, gang. I don't remember approving fartski's application for membership. Anyway, I banned him permanently. also, I'm sorry for the delay. Sick as a dog right now. Nothing makes me feel a little better when not feeling well than getting rid of some asshole trying to mess with the forum

Ralph get well soon! Thanks

[luke]

Maybe it’s not true but I have read that Flo called Diana and Diana said they had a nice chat.

[midnightman]

Sorry for the recent problem, gang. I don't remember approving fartski's application for membership. Anyway, I banned him permanently. also, I'm sorry for the delay. Sick as a dog right now. Nothing makes me feel a little better when not feeling well than getting rid of some asshole trying to mess with the forum

Thanks Ralph. :) Get better.

[midnightman]

Maybe it’s not true but I have read that Flo called Diana and Diana said they had a nice chat.

Flo mentioned it in the Benjaminson tapes too, I think.

[thanxal]

Sorry for the recent problem, gang. I don't remember approving fartski's application for membership. Anyway, I banned him permanently. also, I'm sorry for the delay. Sick as a dog right now. Nothing makes me feel a little better when not feeling well than getting rid of some asshole trying to mess with the forum

THANK YOU RALPH!!! And please get well soon.

[RanRan79]

Flo mentioned it in the Benjaminson tapes too, I think.

Benjaminson documents Florence confirming the conversation and Diana confirmed it in publications at the time. I wonder why some are questioning the truth in light of these sources?:confused::rolleyes:

[TheMotownManiac]

That is not true. That did not happen.

How on God’s green earth would you even presume to know if two total strangers that you never met spoke on the phone or not?

How in God’s SupremesNation can you drop a factoid bomb like that when you know it’s been documented by both parties first hand?

‘I know it’s important for you to put out there as much negativity as posdible when it comes to Diana, and that’s fine, but you look so silly making up things like this that you, we, Flo & Diane all know to be true? Flo and Diana were good when Flo died. Both said so and you know that.

how can you possibly say publicly such a falsehood? I know on other forums with less informed fans that your “info” often includes statements much more outrageous than this, but remember, at least in this forum, folks are informed.

[midnightman]

We know what happened because these people said so. Few people here don't want to leave the Supremes in peace. They may all be in peace with themselves and I'm sure Flo made her peace with Diana and Mary before she abruptly left us. No shame in holding on to negativity, as Marvin said about staying angry: "it makes you sick and old and destroys your soul". So why continue to do it?

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