What's Going On and Obie Benson/Four Tops

[sup_fan]

was reading in wikipedia about Obie's involvement with the development of the song What's Going On. I knew he'd been involved but the article also states that he tried to get the Tops to record it. wow!! if that's true, and given the timing, what an amazing follow up to Still Water. If they did WGO and then an accompanying album.

interesting what if...

[marv2]

I believe Levi and Lawrence would have done great jobs on all of those songs as well. They all would have nailed the harmonies no doubt about it.

[arr&bee]

Oh no doubt,when it came to harmony-the tops were tops!

[sup_fan]

the articles does say that once the basic song was written, marvin really took it and made it his own. so the end products could have been quite different. but i agree it could have been marvelous. i'm sort of hearing the production qualities and approach of Still Water but with the song structure and lyrics of WGO

[marv2]

the articles does say that once the basic song was written, marvin really took it and made it his own. so the end products could have been quite different. but i agree it could have been marvelous. i'm sort of hearing the production qualities and approach of Still Water but with the song structure and lyrics of WGO

Close your eyes and imagine Levi and Lawrence trading the lines to "What's Going On?" with the Tops crooning the background and also mirroring the lead lyrics........fantastic!

[blackguy69]

Only problem is it isn’t their style. If I’m correct they were part of a few artist there that didn’t do social theme songs

[sup_fan]

Close your eyes and imagine Levi and Lawrence trading the lines to "What's Going On?" with the Tops crooning the background and also mirroring the lead lyrics........fantastic!

an imagine it redone with Frank Wilson's lush productions and orchestration. there's an appealing rawness to Marvin's tracks even though they have strings and orchestra. but think supremes Loving Country or the tops Bring Me Together in terms of sound and approach

[marv2]

Only problem is it isn’t their style. If I’m correct they were part of a few artist there that didn’t do social theme songs

It wasn't Marvin Gaye's style either according to Berry Gordy which is why he did not want to release it! He hated it.

[sup_fan]

Only problem is it isn’t their style. If I’m correct they were part of a few artist there that didn’t do social theme songs

i agree that it was a bit of a departure for the tops. but their Still Water album was certainly a concept album and the subsequent material also addressed some themes a bit more substantial than basic love songs. But by 70 the tops were struggling. they'd never really rebounded from HDH's departure. maybe the overall WGO album tackled a lot of social issues, maybe the tops wouldn't have ventured that far.

[marv2]

an imagine it redone with Frank Wilson's lush productions and orchestration. there's an appealing rawness to Marvin's tracks even though they have strings and orchestra. but think supremes Loving Country or the tops Bring Me Together in terms of sound and approach

Oh that would have been awesome.

[sup_fan]

Oh that would have been awesome.

almost all of Frank's work was awesome :o

[sup_fan]

Oh that would have been awesome.

actually i think Frank is a pretty underappreciate producer at motown. smokey, marvin, stevie and hdh get so much press but Frank was such an important pie of the motown story

[marv2]

actually i think Frank is a pretty underappreciate producer at motown. smokey, marvin, stevie and hdh get so much press but Frank was such an important pie of the motown story

All of those great productions by Frank Wilson the Supremes and Eddie Kendricks puts him at that top and in the legendary category will those you mentioned.

[marv2]

i agree that it was a bit of a departure for the tops. but their Still Water album was certainly a concept album and the subsequent material also addressed some themes a bit more substantial than basic love songs. But by 70 the tops were struggling. they'd never really rebounded from HDH's departure. maybe the overall WGO album tackled a lot of social issues, maybe the tops wouldn't have ventured that far.

The Four Tops released several good social conscious songs in the 70s,

"Are You Man Enough"
"Keeper of the Castle"
"In These Changing Times"
"A Simple Game"
"One Chain Don't Make No Prison"
"We All Gotta Stick Together"

[Fourtopsbiggestfan]

Really wish they would've recorded it. I'd definitely be playing that song a lot more.

[marybrewster]

CouldaShouldaWoulda.

You'll never beat Marvin's classic; not even in the game of "what if's".

[marv2]

CouldaShouldaWoulda.

You'll never beat Marvin's classic; not even in the game of "what if's".

Who was talking about beating it? Hell, Obie Benson wrote a lot of those songs with Marvin and others. You guys go on and on about what you would have loved to hear Diane Ross record, let us have our little fun here or ...........

[midnightman]

the articles does say that once the basic song was written, marvin really took it and made it his own. so the end products could have been quite different. but i agree it could have been marvelous. i'm sort of hearing the production qualities and approach of Still Water but with the song structure and lyrics of WGO

Obie hinted the song was a completely different animal when he gave it to Marvin. Maybe that explains why the rest of the Tops were basically like "uh no but thank you anyway Obie". LOL

The way he said it, Marvin definitely turned the song into another animal. But I'm sure once the Tops heard it, they were all figuratively bashing their head against the wall like "dammit, that could've been ours!"

But that shows how much of a genius Marvin was... his composition really made that song the iconic masterpiece it is now.

[midnightman]

the articles does say that once the basic song was written, marvin really took it and made it his own. so the end products could have been quite different. but i agree it could have been marvelous. i'm sort of hearing the production qualities and approach of Still Water but with the song structure and lyrics of WGO

Frank Wilson produced that album, I think. Didn't Al Cleveland also contribute to that album? I'm guessing Still Water was as far as the Tops wanted to go with social messages in their music.

[marv2]

Really wish they would've recorded it. I'd definitely be playing that song a lot more.

I played Marvin's "What's Going On?" a lot during about a 8-10 year period. I have not listen to the album much at all in the 2000s. A Four Tops version would definitely be on my favorite playlist.

[midnightman]

The Four Tops released several good social conscious songs in the 70s,

"Are You Man Enough"
"Keeper of the Castle"
"In These Changing Times"
"A Simple Game"
"One Chain Don't Make No Prison"
"We All Gotta Stick Together"

Note that the songs you mentioned were done after they left Motown... I'm guessing another reason the Tops turned it down was because they knew Motown wouldn't get behind it.

[marv2]

Frank Wilson produced that album, I think. Didn't Al Cleveland also contribute to that album? I'm guessing Still Water was as far as the Tops wanted to go with social messages in their music.

Yes he did. Al also wrote some songs with Smokey.

[marv2]

Note that the songs you mentioned were done after they left Motown... I'm guessing another reason the Tops turned it down was because they knew Motown wouldn't get behind it.

I don't even consider what record label. By 1972, it did not matter one bit to me as a record buyer. The artists and their music was what was important to me, so I followed the Four Tops and all the others that left Motown. Those were some great message songs the Tops recorded. Motown was not infallible! Berry Gordy hated two of the biggest "message songs" to come out of Motown in the early 70s, i.e. "Stoned Love" and "What's Going On?".

[sup_fan]

i think it's an interesting "what if" for sake of discussion, let's just pretend they end up doing the entire WGO album. of course marvin's is a classic in its own right and what makes it so it the many different sounds and approaches he uses for each track and how he utilizes his different voices - falsetto, growling baritone, romantic, etc.

with the tops, some of the songs could have been done with more jazz approaches. with frank wilson, the orchestration could have been expanded. the four tops artistic capabilities were only occasionally explored at motown - songs where they could really let go and work their harmonies. could have been a fascinating alternative to the actual released version

[marv2]

i think it's an interesting "what if" for sake of discussion, let's just pretend they end up doing the entire WGO album. of course marvin's is a classic in its own right and what makes it so it the many different sounds and approaches he uses for each track and how he utilizes his different voices - falsetto, growling baritone, romantic, etc.

with the tops, some of the songs could have been done with more jazz approaches. with frank wilson, the orchestration could have been expanded. the four tops artistic capabilities were only occasionally explored at motown - songs where they could really let go and work their harmonies. could have been a fascinating alternative to the actual released version

True, Marvin uses his different voices, range which is why I think it would be interesting to have different members of the Four Tops sing leads to certain songs, duet on some or do as they did on "Ain't No Woman Like The One I Got" where each guy sang a line or two.

[PeaceNHarmony]

i think it's an interesting "what if" for sake of discussion, let's just pretend they end up doing the entire WGO album. of course marvin's is a classic in its own right and what makes it so it the many different sounds and approaches he uses for each track and how he utilizes his different voices - falsetto, growling baritone, romantic, etc.

with the tops, some of the songs could have been done with more jazz approaches. with frank wilson, the orchestration could have been expanded. the four tops artistic capabilities were only occasionally explored at motown - songs where they could really let go and work their harmonies. could have been a fascinating alternative to the actual released version
It's certainly an interesting topic, and I do wonder just how much Obie influenced the concept of WGO. I hope he was adequately compensated; perhaps the Gaye family has a backatcha lawsuit coming! I would have loved to hear the Tops version of the LP, gotta tell you. You've got it just right.

[midnightman]

I'm sure Obie's estate is paid just fine. He's credited. So is Al Cleveland. :rolleyes:

[marv2]

I'm sure Obie's estate is paid just fine. He's credited. So is Al Cleveland. :rolleyes:

Pay him no mind. He is the same character that just posted about Rhonda Ross, someone who never even worked for Motown and who is clearly cashing in on her parents fame.........

[rovereab]

Perhaps an interesting take would have been Marvin on lead with the Four Tops on backup vocals. By suggesting this I am thinking of the wonderful combination of Martha Reeves and Four Tops on My Baby Loves Me - one of Motown's finest songs IMO.

[marv2]

Perhaps an interesting take would have been Marvin on lead with the Four Tops on backup vocals. By suggesting this I am thinking of the wonderful combination of Martha Reeves and Four Tops on My Baby Loves Me - one of Motown's finest songs IMO.

That's not a bad idea.

[sup_fan]

That's not a bad idea.

or what about a collaboration across a variety of motown artists. martha, maybe gladys. do one of the songs as sort of a "motown family jam session"

which there was more collaboration across the artists rather that silly Pops We Love You nonsense

[midnightman]

The Four Tops being on the bg of Marvin's WGO would've definitely worked!

[marv2]

or what about a collaboration across a variety of motown artists. martha, maybe gladys. do one of the songs as sort of a "motown family jam session"

which there was more collaboration across the artists rather that silly Pops We Love You nonsense


The could do a tribute album "What's Going On?" and use the surviving classic Motown Artists with a few young artists [[minimal use of course). "Pops We Love You" came out my freshman year in college and to be honest, I was embarrassed hearing it on the radio for some reason. LOL!!!!

[marv2]

The Four Tops being on the bg of Marvin's WGO would've definitely worked!

Oh it would have been like soulful musical heaven LOL! They would have tore it completely up!

[midnightman]

^ For real. Would've been definitely massive and epic than it already was.

[marv2]

^ For real. Would've been definitely massive and epic than it already was.

If you've ever heard the Four Tops sing "Baby I Need Your Loving" acapella, you would know immediately that they were some of, if not the best in the business during their prime. They launch right into the song with each member knowing their place and Levi doing the damned thing! LOL! Oh I miss them!

[midnightman]

If you've ever heard the Four Tops sing "Baby I Need Your Loving" acapella, you would know immediately that they were some of, if not the best in the business during their prime. They launch right into the song with each member knowing their place and Levi doing the damned thing! LOL! Oh I miss them!

Heh, yeah they had some of the most powerful vocals put to melody I ever heard in my life.