Your Opinions Please

[RTA6226]

Hi All: I would just like to get the opinions of anyone who wishes to give one [[or more). I was reading an article about Whitney recently and came upon this sentence: "Yes, she was booed at the 1989 Soul Train Awards and that great musical genius Al Sharpton once recommended that black people boycott her records because of their blinding whiteness." I had forgotten all about that and this article jolted my memory.

What are your thoughts about Al Sharpton recommending that black people boycott her records and calling her "Whitey Houston"?

Also, what are your opinions about her being booed at the Soul Train Awards? I'd appreciate any opinions you may have to share. Thanks.

[soulster]

Hi All: I would just like to get the opinions of anyone who wishes to give one [[or more). I was reading an article about Whitney recently and came upon this sentence: "Yes, she was booed at the 1989 Soul Train Awards and that great musical genius Al Sharpton once recommended that black people boycott her records because of their blinding whiteness." I had forgotten all about that and this article jolted my memory.

What are your thoughts about Al Sharpton recommending that black people boycott her records and calling her "Whitey Houston"?

Also, what are your opinions about her being booed at the Soul Train Awards? I'd appreciate any opinions you may have to share. Thanks.

I never ever heard of this until just now. Wait 'till I Google this...

OK: first, here's the reason she was booed off the award show:


https://youtu.be/N_65O5Oz4w8

She sounded like shit!

Now: What a twisted, racist world we live in! Black people want equality and not to be judged on the basis of race and culture, yet we condemn and ostracize those whom do not conform to a narrowly defined Afrocentric view and lifestyle.

Black artists have always been taken to task by Blacks [[and some Whites) for not being "black enough". Whitney Houston wasn't anything new, this had been happening since people tried to make Blacks palatable for "proper White folk". There have been many. Among them are: Johnny Mathis, Sammy Davis Jr., Lou Rawls, The Supremes, Jimi Hendrix, Louis Armstrong, Lionel Hampton, Dianne Carroll, Bill Cosby, and Whitney Houston. hell! What do you think Motown's Maxine Powell's etiquette school was all about?

It's part of a continuing question that Blacks have to ask themselves and each other: what does it mean to be Black? Do you have to walk, talk, sing, and act a certain way to be accepted as Black? How Black do you want Blacks to be? Black? Violet-Black? Blue-Black? Deep super-duper Black? Black people in America fought hard to stop Whites from doing that to us, and then we do it to ourselves??? And, Black people who don't "fit the profile" feel it all the time! I know I do, so I can relate to this. I remember some years ago, a forum member criticized me because I didn't know the "Black National Anthem". What? Is that some kind of requirement? My Black family, nor I, ever got the memo.

Why do people, both White and Black, still think of Black people being some monolithic group of people? Are Black people not allowed to be individuals and think for ourselves? Are we not allowed to enjoy Whitney's music after that first album? Can I not enjoy AC/DC or Carpenters music? And, how about this: why do we think that White people are so clean and pure that they have to be presented with a squeaky-clean image of Black people? [[Well, maybe they do over at the Fox news channel.) Last time I checked, plenty of White people love Richard Pryor, Redd Foxx, NWA, 2-Live Crew, and others. I remember when an awful lot of Whites were literally scared of NWA and other gangsta rappers, and a lot of others loved them.

Many Black singers struggles with being accepted by those of their own race. Jimi Hendrix disbanded The Experience because he was criticized for being "too White". Prince recorded the "Black Album" because he was criticized for being "too White". I'm sure Michael Jackson even felt the sting of this type of criticism. And, now there is strong evidence that Whitney felt the same. Why do we do this to ourselves and each other? Just because a Black person doesn't fit someone else's narrow definition of Blackness? What is "sounding White"? What is "sounding Black"?

I looked around and have yet to find any evidence of Al Sharpton calling her "Whitey Houston" and calling for a boycott of her records. Perhaps someone can provide credible evidence of this.

Meanwhile, here are a couple of links I came up with:
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/whitney-houston-documentary_us_5908a4f0e4b0bb2d08720ecd

http://gawker.com/remember-when-whitney-houston-got-booed-for-being-too-w-1660783143


Oh, and one more thing: this forum covered this exact, same issue before [[https://soulfuldetroit.com/showthread.php?3725-Why-was-Whitney-Houston-really-booed-at-the-1989-Soul-Train-awards).

[RTA6226]

Thanks SO much Soulster for your opinions. Thanks also for sharing the links. One of them I have but not the other. Also thanks so much for the link where you guys covered this before. I was not aware of that. I really appreciate it. I'll try to make more comments later.

[marv2]

I was around and awake from the very beginning of Whitney Houston's career to the very end. I remember some folks booing her at that awards show and to be honest, it pissed me off! How dare they? Was my feelings at the time. Whitney was the greatest voice, singer, vocalist of a generation. I do not recall ever hearing that about Al Sharpton. It does not sound like something he would say and I am very familiar with the Reverend.

I would have been in all kinds of fights that night had I been there. I do not believe Al Sharpton called for any boycott of Whitney's music. I think someone, somewhere made that shit up to add to the drama. I know I would have heard about it back at the time if it were true.

What Whitney experienced is what some of the most successful black artists in history experienced. I remember when people ragged on the Supremes in the late 60s for "not being black enough". They made similar disparaging comments about Sammy Davis Jr., Dionne Warwick, Pearl Bailey etc, etc, etc. Leontyne Price anyone? It is just plain stupidity when some feel that ALL black artists have to be funky all the time. Also, believe it or not, not all black singers came out of the Baptist Church singing Gospel!

I have also noticed that when any of the black artists that successfully crossed over to white or Pop audiences, whenever they wanted to get Funky or Soulful, they were put down by that same Pop audience with comments like "what is he or she doing? I don't get it or sounds ghetto!".

[marv2]

I never ever heard of this until just now. Wait 'till I Google this...

OK: first, here's the reason she was booed off the award show:


https://youtu.be/N_65O5Oz4w8

She sounded like shit!

Now: What a twisted, racist world we live in! Black people want equality and not to be judged on the basis of race and culture, yet we condemn and ostracize those whom do not conform to a narrowly defined Afrocentric view and lifestyle.

Black artists have always been taken to task by Blacks [[and some Whites) for not being "black enough". Whitney Houston wasn't anything new, this had been happening since people tried to make Blacks palatable for "proper White folk". There have been many. Among them are: Johnny Mathis, Sammy Davis Jr., Lou Rawls, The Supremes, Jimi Hendrix, Louis Armstrong, Lionel Hampton, Dianne Carroll, Bill Cosby, and Whitney Houston. hell! What do you think Motown's Maxine Powell's etiquette school was all about?

It's part of a continuing question that Blacks have to ask themselves and each other: what does it mean to be Black? Do you have to walk, talk, sing, and act a certain way to be accepted as Black? How Black do you want Blacks to be? Black? Violet-Black? Blue-Black? Deep super-duper Black? Black people in America fought hard to stop Whites from doing that to us, and then we do it to ourselves??? And, Black people who don't "fit the profile" feel it all the time! I know I do, so I can relate to this. I remember some years ago, a forum member criticized me because I didn't know the "Black National Anthem". What? Is that some kind of requirement? My Black family, nor I, ever got the memo.

Why do people, both White and Black, still think of Black people being some monolithic group of people? Are Black people not allowed to be individuals and think for ourselves? Are we not allowed to enjoy Whitney's music after that first album? Can I not enjoy AC/DC or Carpenters music? And, how about this: why do we think that White people are so clean and pure that they have to be presented with a squeaky-clean image of Black people? [[Well, maybe they do over at the Fox news channel.) Last time I checked, plenty of White people love Richard Pryor, Redd Foxx, NWA, 2-Live Crew, and others. I remember when an awful lot of Whites were literally scared of NWA and other gangsta rappers, and a lot of others loved them.

Many Black singers struggles with being accepted by those of their own race. Jimi Hendrix disbanded The Experience because he was criticized for being "too White". Prince recorded the "Black Album" because he was criticized for being "too White". I'm sure Michael Jackson even felt the sting of this type of criticism. And, now there is strong evidence that Whitney felt the same. Why do we do this to ourselves and each other? Just because a Black person doesn't fit someone else's narrow definition of Blackness? What is "sounding White"? What is "sounding Black"?

I looked around and have yet to find any evidence of Al Sharpton calling her "Whitey Houston" and calling for a boycott of her records. Perhaps someone can provide credible evidence of this.

Meanwhile, here are a couple of links I came up with:
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/whitney-houston-documentary_us_5908a4f0e4b0bb2d08720ecd

http://gawker.com/remember-when-whitney-houston-got-booed-for-being-too-w-1660783143


Oh, and one more thing: this forum covered this exact, same issue before [[https://soulfuldetroit.com/showthread.php?3725-Why-was-Whitney-Houston-really-booed-at-the-1989-Soul-Train-awards).

I did not read your post before posting my own comments. I appreciate your post now that I have read it.

[RTA6226]

Hi Soulster:

Here are several articles about her being called Whitey Houston.

https://blog.thecurrent.org/2018/07/movie-review-whitney-brings-houston-movingly-down-to-earth/ [[https://blog.thecurrent.org/2018/07/movie-review-whitney-brings-houston-movingly-down-to-earth/)

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/18/style/whitney-houston-documentary.html [[https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/18/style/whitney-houston-documentary.html)

https://blackgirlnerds.com/bgn-film-review-whitney-and-the-people-who-killed-her/ [[https://blackgirlnerds.com/bgn-film-review-whitney-and-the-people-who-killed-her/)

https://61chrissterry.wordpress.com/2018/07/08/not-black-enough-the-identity-crisis-that-haunted-whitney-houston-music-the-guardian/ [[https://61chrissterry.wordpress.com/2018/07/08/not-black-enough-the-identity-crisis-that-haunted-whitney-houston-music-the-guardian/)

[RTA6226]

I remember some folks booing her at that awards show and to be honest, it pissed me off! How dare they? Was my feelings at the time. Whitney was the greatest voice, singer, vocalist of a generation. I would have been in all kinds of fights that night had I been there.

What Whitney experienced is what some of the most successful black artists in history experienced. I remember when people ragged on the Supremes in the late 60s for "not being black enough". They made similar disparaging comments about Sammy Davis Jr., Dionne Warwick, Pearl Bailey etc, etc, etc. Leontyne Price anyone? It is just plain stupidity when some feel that ALL black artists have to be funky all the time. Also, believe it or not, not all black singers came out of the Baptist Church singing Gospel!".

Thanks for your comments also Marv. I agree with what you said about the above artists and YES, all Black singers don't come out of the Baptist church, as is mentioned below by Marilyn McCoo of the 5th Dimension. They and the Rascals are my favorite singing groups. The same thing happened to the 5th Dimension. Like you said, it pissed me off, too!

This is a quote I found from one of the many articles I have about them. Their producer, Bones Howe said in an interview, “But there was always this pressure, because wherever they would go out and work blacks would give them pressure about being too white. And the pressure was always on me to make R&B records.”

Billy: “We took a lot of criticism, but it was because I felt like we were opening up new ground. We were pioneers. We were just putting it out the way that we felt it, and the way that we wanted to sing it.”

Marilyn’s reaction was even sharper. “I told people then, I did not grow up in a church, singing gospel music. And the kind of music I heard around the house when I was growing up happened to be pop music. It was the kind of stuff my parents listened to. We weren’t thinking that it was a ‘white’ sound,” she says, “it was a ‘different’ sound. We were putting some interesting harmonics in there. When people started accusing us of betraying our blackness, we got angry. I still bristle at that today!"

Lamonte remembers when black members of the student body at California’s Valparaiso College had picketed the the 5th Dimension at their concert and were angry at the college's concert–booking policy, choosing “too many white acts.” “So they said OK, they’d get somebody. And they got us. And the black people said ‘Well, this ain’t representative of what we’re asking for at all.'”

Marv, again like you, had I been at that College and had seen that, I would have done some SERIOUS acting out! BTW, the Rascals went through some similar stuff when they went to the deep south on tour after "People Got to be Free" became a hit and after they changed their concert policy; that if half of the acts on the bill weren't Black they wouldn't play. They were told they had become "too Black" and not in such tactful ways and they were confronted by a motorcycle gang. They said that they don't know HOW they got the hell outta there! I swear all of this is SO ridiculous! Why can't entertainers just make their music and we enjoy it without all of this conundrum? :mad:

[soulster]

Hi Soulster:

Here are several articles about her being called Whitey Houston.

https://blog.thecurrent.org/2018/07/movie-review-whitney-brings-houston-movingly-down-to-earth/ [[https://blog.thecurrent.org/2018/07/movie-review-whitney-brings-houston-movingly-down-to-earth/)

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/18/style/whitney-houston-documentary.html [[https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/18/style/whitney-houston-documentary.html)

https://blackgirlnerds.com/bgn-film-review-whitney-and-the-people-who-killed-her/ [[https://blackgirlnerds.com/bgn-film-review-whitney-and-the-people-who-killed-her/)

https://61chrissterry.wordpress.com/2018/07/08/not-black-enough-the-identity-crisis-that-haunted-whitney-houston-music-the-guardian/ [[https://61chrissterry.wordpress.com/2018/07/08/not-black-enough-the-identity-crisis-that-haunted-whitney-houston-music-the-guardian/)

Thanks for the links, but I am looking specifically for quotes by Sharpton where he allegedly called her "Whitey Houston". Remember, you can repeat a rumor or lie so often that people can believe it is absolutely true.

BTW, I always found it funny that "Nippy" was Whitney's nickname. "Nippy" conjures up an image of a woman's nipple. :)

[soulster]

Thanks Marv and RTA!

I'm glad you guys brought up The 5th Dimension as an example of what I am talking about. The Friends Of Distinction is another Black vocal group that suffered, though less so. BTW, I recommend you both get the 5th Dimension Complete Soul City-Bell Singles 1966-1975 [[https://www.amazon.com/Complete-Soul-City-Singles-1966-1975/dp/B01M65ADE0) CD before it disappears forever. They don't print many of these.

[marv2]

Thanks Marv and RTA!

I'm glad you guys brought up The 5th Dimension as an example of what I am talking about. The Friends Of Distinction is another Black vocal group that suffered, though less so. BTW, I recommend you both get the 5th Dimension Complete Soul City-Bell Singles 1966-1975 [[https://www.amazon.com/Complete-Soul-City-Singles-1966-1975/dp/B01M65ADE0) CD before it disappears forever. They don't print many of these.

You're welcome. I have always loved the 5th Dimension since I first heard them.........in the 1st Grade! LOL! Even when they stopped having hits, I would watch them anytime they were on TV with new replacements. I had huge crush on Florence LaRue! The Friends of Distinction were a Jazzier version of the 5th [["Love or Let Me Be Lonely" for example). I remember liking this black New Wave group back in college called "The Bus Boys". I liked some of Tracey Chapman's songs oh and remember this guy? He was from Detroit but found initial success in Great Britian as a member of "Wham!"....Deon Estus



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LYh9XONmHE

[soulster]

And, there were a lot of Black heavy metal bands in the late 60s and early 70s that got nowhere because labels wouldn't sign them. Remember the band Mother's Finest? RCA, believe it or not, allowed them to record metal. But, when they signed to Epic Records in the mid-70s, they were forced to go in an R&B direction because the label said no one would accept a Black rock band.

[carlo]

I never ever heard of this until just now. Wait 'till I Google this...

OK: first, here's the reason she was booed off the award show:

[[Video link removed)

She sounded like shit!



Soulster, the video link you referenced in your post is from Whitney's 2010 UK/European Nothing But Love Tour. The incident that is being referenced [[Whitney being booed at the Soul Train Awards) took place in 1989. The new documentary covers both the subject of the Soul Train Awards and Rev. Al Sharpton. She was booed at the awards show when they were presenting the nominees for an award, and her name was announced as a nominee while they played a clip from her video, "Where Do Broken Hearts Go". They said that the audience had turned on her for being 'too white'. They go into further detail of the impact that event had on Whitney. It was also the same night that she met Bobby Brown.

As for Rev. Al Sharpton, they also discuss his protesting of Whitney's music in the late 80's and said he called her "Whitey Houston" and asked for a boycott. They said he had led a protest outside of one of her hotel rooms around this time. I was surprised by this, as I had never heard this story prior to seeing the documentary.

[soulster]

Soulster, the video link you referenced in your post is from Whitney's 2010 UK/European Nothing But Love Tour. The incident that is being referenced [[Whitney being booed at the Soul Train Awards) took place in 1989.

Ah! Well, she still sounded horrible at that concert! That's what drugs, drinking, and alcohol will do to you.


The new documentary covers both the subject of the Soul Train Awards and Rev. Al Sharpton.

Yeah, I got that.


She was booed at the awards show when they were presenting the nominees for an award, and her name was announced as a nominee while they played a clip from her video, "Where Do Broken Hearts Go". They said that the audience had turned on her for being 'too white'.

And, that's the thing of it right there: what if any of those teenage or early twenty-something 90s R&B singers had done the song? Then what? No one criticized them for doing that same type of material.


They go into further detail of the impact that event had on Whitney.

Oh, i'm sure it did! Whitney had been well sheltered and handled at that point. She probably had no idea how a lot of Black folk felt about her. I also find it interesting how Soul Train gave her the award in the midst of these criticisms.


As for Rev. Al Sharpton, they also discuss his protesting of Whitney's music in the late 80's and said he called her "Whitey Houston" and asked for a boycott. They said he had led a protest outside of one of her hotel rooms around this time. I was surprised by this, as I had never heard this story prior to seeing the documentary.

Yes! I want to see some proof of this ever happening. Not only is this the first time i'm hearing/reading about it. So far, all I have ever read is a say-so, second-hand information. Even when I search the web, I don't see any video footage of any such protest, or his calling her "Whitey Houston". We also have to remember that there are a LOT of Al Sharpton haters out there because of his involvement in the Tawana Brawley case.

[marv2]

And, there were a lot of Black heavy metal bands in the late 60s and early 70s that got nowhere because labels wouldn't sign them. Remember the band Mother's Finest? RCA, believe it or not, allowed them to record metal. But, when they signed to Epic Records in the mid-70s, they were forced to go in an R&B direction because the label said no one would accept a Black rock band.

I bought two of Mother's Finest albums when i was in high school.

[marv2]

Soulster, the video link you referenced in your post is from Whitney's 2010 UK/European Nothing But Love Tour. The incident that is being referenced [[Whitney being booed at the Soul Train Awards) took place in 1989. The new documentary covers both the subject of the Soul Train Awards and Rev. Al Sharpton. She was booed at the awards show when they were presenting the nominees for an award, and her name was announced as a nominee while they played a clip from her video, "Where Do Broken Hearts Go". They said that the audience had turned on her for being 'too white'. They go into further detail of the impact that event had on Whitney. It was also the same night that she met Bobby Brown.

As for Rev. Al Sharpton, they also discuss his protesting of Whitney's music in the late 80's and said he called her "Whitey Houston" and asked for a boycott. They said he had led a protest outside of one of her hotel rooms around this time. I was surprised by this, as I had never heard this story prior to seeing the documentary.

Carlo, I bet Rev. Al has never heard this story either. I am going to make sure that he does.

[marv2]

Ah! Well, she still sounded horrible at that concert! That's what drugs, drinking, and alcohol will do to you.



Yeah, I got that.



And, that's the thing of it right there: what if any of those teenage or early twenty-something 90s R&B singers had done the song? Then what? No one criticized them for doing that same type of material.



Oh, i'm sure it did! Whitney had been well sheltered and handled at that point. She probably had no idea how a lot of Black folk felt about her. I also find it interesting how Soul Train gave her the award in the midst of these criticisms.



Yes! I want to see some proof of this ever happening. Not only is this the first time i'm hearing/reading about it. So far, all I have ever read is a say-so, second-hand information. Even when I search the web, I don't see any video footage of any such protest, or his calling her "Whitey Houston". We also have to remember that there are a LOT of Al Sharpton haters out there because of his involvement in the Tawana Brawley case.


Exactly. Reverend Al Sharpton spoke at Whitney's funeral and played a role similar to a narrator for the service locally in New York on NBC Channel 4. I do not believe he ever boycotted her. How was it kept a secret for this long?

[marv2]

If you go to Youtube and type in Al Sharpton Whitney Houston, a number of videos come up of Rev. Sharpton either praying for or praising Whitney.

[marv2]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NW6kAJW_cSQ

[soulster]

Yup. Unless anyone can come up with some hard evidence...HARD PROOF Al Sharpton EVER influenced a boycott of Whitney Houston, or called her "Whitey" Houston, i'll believe it. Until, and unless that happens, I don't believe it.

I believe that a small boycott took place somewhere, and someone called her "Whitey", but i'm sure it wasn't Al Sharpton. It all smells like a smear campaign against one of both of them. It's probably by the same people who smeared Bobby Brown for marrying her.

I did some checking on Snopes.com. There is nothing...absolutely NOTHING about any boycott, or Al Sharpton calling her "Whitey". Again, I highly suspect a smear campaign that no one has ever bothered to actually investigate. This also tells me that this new documentary has some questionable information. In that light, maybe the sex abuse thing is also a hoax, too.

Oh, and BTW, I dug up that 1988 Soul Train performance. I don't hear a single "boo" in the audience. In fact, the crowd in the front was swaying to the music.
Check it out for yourself:
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3eoo5

I'm going to call this a hoax. Like I said, there are a lot of people who don't like Al Sharpton, particularly a lot of right-wing Whites.

[reese]

Oh, and BTW, I dug up that 1988 Soul Train performance. I don't hear a single "boo" in the audience. In fact, the crowd in the front was swaying to the music.
Check it out for yourself:
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3eoo5



This clip is from the first Soul Train Awards, in 1987. She performed but was not booed. https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3eoo5

She was booed during the 1989 ceremony, when her video was shown as one of the nominees. She didn't perform that year. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CzQkRJxoXo

The clip quality isn't the greatest. But you can hear some boos when her video was shown. And regardless of what happened, it has been mentioned many times that the incident was very troubling to Whitney, as were other attacks on her sound. It is probably not so coincidental that her next cd, I'M YOUR BABY TONIGHT, had more of an r&b slant than her earlier ones.

Re Sharpton, I never heard about his calling her "Whitey Houston" until this new film. They showed a flyer from some march he supposedly started, and one of her brothers mentioned that he and a group were protesting outside of Whitney's hotel. I did a Google search and have yet to find that flyer or any news that Sharpton did such a thing, other than in this film.

[marv2]

This clip is from the first Soul Train Awards, in 1987. She performed but was not booed. https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3eoo5

She was booed during the 1989 ceremony, when her video was shown as one of the nominees. She didn't perform that year. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CzQkRJxoXo

The clip quality isn't the greatest. But you can hear some boos when her video was shown. And regardless of what happened, it has been mentioned many times that the incident was very troubling to Whitney, as were other attacks on her sound. It is probably not so coincidental that her next cd, I'M YOUR BABY TONIGHT, had more of an r&b slant than her earlier ones.

Re Sharpton, I never heard about his calling her "Whitey Houston" until this new film. They showed a flyer from some march he supposedly started, and one of her brothers mentioned that he and a group were protesting outside of Whitney's hotel. I did a Google search and have yet to find that flyer or any news that Sharpton did such a thing, other than in this film.

This is going to become an issue once Rev. Sharpton hears about it and see's the film.

[nativeNY63]

It's real simple, folks. Sharpton is NOT a musician. Sharpton DOES have a cable news show [[once had a "talk show" in a barber shop). And, most importantly, Sharpton will forever be linked to Tawana Brawley. See a pattern here?

In other words, he should talk! I'm just sayin'.��

[arr&bee]

I've not heard that either,and it would be very sad if he did make that statement,ever since Blacks have been performing in this country..Minstrel times until today there has been the question of-Who's Black enough which is just stupid,everyone has their own sound and style and should be accepted on it-I love the music of-Nat Cole as much as I love James Brown...and it's sad when we as Blacks condemn our own because they aren't...BLACK ENOUGH-excuse my french but-WHAT THE FUCK DOES THAT MEAN??

[nativeNY63]

You never hear someone say, 'He/She's not white enough'? Things that make you go hmmmmm.

[arr&bee]

The institution of slavery did some very strange things to us psychologically.

[detmotownguy]

Wrong. Happens all the time in the organizational setting from both whites and blacks. “That’s right, you like all those black people anyway?” “You have mostly a black staff, you trying to be black?”. “Why do you take your clients to so many soul concerts?”. [[Because they asked me to dumb ass). Then blacks were accused of selling out when promoted into Mgmt roles that were historically held by whites. Good grief it was like nobody can understand that people sb hired based on their KSA’s regardless of ethnicity, gender or age. This compartmentalizing of who is black or white enough drives me crazy and is really fk up. You are not white enough bc your work and social life involves non-whites. WTF gives!
However, observing young college kids hanging together in diverse groups these days, I hope things will change.

[[I have strep throat w a 101 fever so the above is somewhat disjointed. But this subject aggravates this xxxx outta me.)

[detmotownguy]

The institution of slavery did some very strange things to us psychologically.

Yes, research asserts that black males’ still experience low levels of self esteem and self efficacy resulting from slave owners doing everything they could to reduce their self-worth.

[marv2]

You never hear someone say, 'He/She's not white enough'? Things that make you go hmmmmm.

Some did that to Eminem. They called him a "Wigger"? I will be blunt. There are lot of messed up people in this country and they like it!

[detmotownguy]

Some did that to Eminem. They called him a "Wigger"? I will be blunt. There are lot of messed up people in this country and they like it!
Labels suck don’t they?

[marv2]

Labels suck don’t they?

They do ,but what really sucks is that there are some people that revel in them! Being a part of a "group" gives their lives meaningful in some strange way.

[mr_june]

I never ever heard of this until just now. Wait 'till I Google this...

OK: first, here's the reason she was booed off the award show:


https://youtu.be/N_65O5Oz4w8

She sounded like shit!

Now: What a twisted, racist world we live in! Black people want equality and not to be judged on the basis of race and culture, yet we condemn and ostracize those whom do not conform to a narrowly defined Afrocentric view and lifestyle.

Black artists have always been taken to task by Blacks [[and some Whites) for not being "black enough". Whitney Houston wasn't anything new, this had been happening since people tried to make Blacks palatable for "proper White folk". There have been many. Among them are: Johnny Mathis, Sammy Davis Jr., Lou Rawls, The Supremes, Jimi Hendrix, Louis Armstrong, Lionel Hampton, Dianne Carroll, Bill Cosby, and Whitney Houston. hell! What do you think Motown's Maxine Powell's etiquette school was all about?

It's part of a continuing question that Blacks have to ask themselves and each other: what does it mean to be Black? Do you have to walk, talk, sing, and act a certain way to be accepted as Black? How Black do you want Blacks to be? Black? Violet-Black? Blue-Black? Deep super-duper Black? Black people in America fought hard to stop Whites from doing that to us, and then we do it to ourselves??? And, Black people who don't "fit the profile" feel it all the time! I know I do, so I can relate to this. I remember some years ago, a forum member criticized me because I didn't know the "Black National Anthem". What? Is that some kind of requirement? My Black family, nor I, ever got the memo.

Why do people, both White and Black, still think of Black people being some monolithic group of people? Are Black people not allowed to be individuals and think for ourselves? Are we not allowed to enjoy Whitney's music after that first album? Can I not enjoy AC/DC or Carpenters music? And, how about this: why do we think that White people are so clean and pure that they have to be presented with a squeaky-clean image of Black people? [[Well, maybe they do over at the Fox news channel.) Last time I checked, plenty of White people love Richard Pryor, Redd Foxx, NWA, 2-Live Crew, and others. I remember when an awful lot of Whites were literally scared of NWA and other gangsta rappers, and a lot of others loved them.

Many Black singers struggles with being accepted by those of their own race. Jimi Hendrix disbanded The Experience because he was criticized for being "too White". Prince recorded the "Black Album" because he was criticized for being "too White". I'm sure Michael Jackson even felt the sting of this type of criticism. And, now there is strong evidence that Whitney felt the same. Why do we do this to ourselves and each other? Just because a Black person doesn't fit someone else's narrow definition of Blackness? What is "sounding White"? What is "sounding Black"?

I looked around and have yet to find any evidence of Al Sharpton calling her "Whitey Houston" and calling for a boycott of her records. Perhaps someone can provide credible evidence of this.

Meanwhile, here are a couple of links I came up with:
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/whitney-houston-documentary_us_5908a4f0e4b0bb2d08720ecd

http://gawker.com/remember-when-whitney-houston-got-booed-for-being-too-w-1660783143


Oh, and one more thing: this forum covered this exact, same issue before [[https://soulfuldetroit.com/showthread.php?3725-Why-was-Whitney-Houston-really-booed-at-the-1989-Soul-Train-awards).

Black writers of the past also faced that discussion of not being black enough. I remember taking a college class about the Harlem Renaissance and the book we had to study talked about that happening to Langston Hughes I believe. I say be who you are which is an individual. You could make a point of today's singers trying to have the same Hip Hop/R&B sound. Individuals and groups of all nationalities striving for the same style of singing. Be yourself.

[marv2]

Black writers of the past also faced that discussion of not being black enough. I remember taking a college class about the Harlem Renaissance and the book we had to study talked about that happening to Langston Hughes I believe. I say be who you are which is an individual. You could make a point of today's singers trying to have the same Hip Hop/R&B sound. Individuals and groups of all nationalities striving for the same style of singing. Be yourself.

I like what you said very much. Personally I think I appreciate, in regards to music, those that go out there and do not care what other people think and just sing their song[[s). For instance, when Mick Jagger and the Rolling Stones were getting it together way back in the early sixties, people were saying they'rer ugly, not as sophisticated as the Beatles, Mick danced funny or couldn't dance.....HA! They have outlasted them all! Mick just had heart surgery and at 75 years old, is up and dancing again like he was 20!

[Jerry Oz]

It's all crazy. I remember when people used to say Bryant Gumbel tried to "sound white". I never understood the motivation for saying it. Forget the fact that he had a white parent for a second, which opens the door to ask what being "black" in America really means. What they were really saying is that he didn't sound black, as if you needed to speak some variation of ebonics to have credibility. He got kicked around for years and it made no sense. Why did they feel he needed to sound the way they spoke? Would they take him serious in his role if he did?

They didn't go to school for communications or public speaking and spend years building a career in news reporting. He made it to the top of his profession and was one of the best to ever do it and low-minded jealous people turned away from him to watch white anchors do the same thing. All while sounding "white". Screw them. Of course, now they jump on Tiger Woods for speaking through his nose, even though there are plenty of other reasons for peoples of color to take issue with him.

[marv2]

It's all crazy. I remember when people used to say Bryant Gumbel tried to "sound white". I never understood the motivation for saying it. Forget the fact that he had a white parent for a second, which opens the door to ask what being "black" in America really means. What they were really saying is that he didn't sound black, as if you needed to speak some variation of ebonics to have credibility. He got kicked around for years and it made no sense. Why did they feel he needed to sound the way they spoke? Would they take him serious in his role if he did?

They didn't go to school for communications or public speaking and spend years building a career in news reporting. He made it to the top of his profession and was one of the best to ever do it and low-minded jealous people turned away from him to watch white anchors do the same thing. All while sounding "white". Screw them. Of course, now they jump on Tiger Woods for speaking through his nose, even though there are plenty of other reasons for peoples of color to take issue with him.

I never knew Bryant Gumbel was biracial until now. That is mainly because it never mattered to me.

[Jerry Oz]

I never knew Bryant Gumbel was biracial until now. That is mainly because it never mattered to me.It doesn't matter. Most black/African-American people are of mixed heritage. it doesn't matter if you're mixed in the last generation or three or four before, almost none of us can trace both sides of our bloodlines to Africa. People don't want to believe that the one drop rule still applies, but it does because race is not determined by the individual but by outside forces. Try to tell the person who just judged you on your yellow skin, thick nose and kinky hair that you're "bi-racial" and he'll nod and throw your job application in the trash anyway. It's ridiculous.

[marv2]

It doesn't matter. Most black/African-American people are of mixed heritage. it doesn't matter if you're mixed in the last generation or three or four before, almost none of us can trace both sides of our bloodlines to Africa. People don't want to believe that the one drop rule still applies, but it does because race is not determined by the individual but by outside forces. Try to tell the person who just judged you on your yellow skin, thick nose and kinky hair that you're "bi-racial" and he'll nod and throw your job application in the trash anyway. It's ridiculous.

Understood! On the other side of the coin, there not as many "pure white people" out there today either. Many don't even know that they have African blood.

[marv2]

A case in point:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogBEI1z1OIE

[arr&bee]

It's all african blood...didn't life start in africa?

[Jerry Oz]

Understood! On the other side of the coin, there not as many "pure white people" out there today either. Many don't even know that they have African blood.One of my favorite episodes of any show was the Jeffersons episode where George was the only one who knew CPR when a white supremacist had a heart attack while giving a rally in their apartment building. Of course, George hated doing it. Especially when they carried the bastard out on a gurney and his son told him that George saved his life. He looked at George for a few seconds and said to his son "You should have let me die". Powerful. And absolutely representative of how much some of them hate us.

And before anybody takes offense and flashes a few headlines out of Chicago, yeah, the effects of slavery have carried for generations and the self-hatred felt by some of the descendants of slaves has translated in hate for their own.

[arr&bee]

Preach jerry,preach!

[marv2]

One of my favorite episodes of any show was the Jeffersons episode where George was the only one who knew CPR when a white supremacist had a heart attack while giving a rally in their apartment building. Of course, George hated doing it. Especially when they carried the bastard out on a gurney and his son told him that George saved his life. He looked at George for a few seconds and said to his son "You should have let me die". Powerful. And absolutely representative of how much some of them hate us.

And before anybody takes offense and flashes a few headlines out of Chicago, yeah, the effects of slavery have carried for generations and the self-hatred felt by some of the descendants of slaves has translated in hate for their own.

I remember that Jerry. I never understood that kind of hate. I worked for a company that I had built a brand new market for, made millions for them and yet the local manager hated me because I was black! I later learned that she would refer to me and the only other black employee in the office, a woman as "monkeys" behind our backs. Said in front of white employees. Little did she know that not everyone felt the way that she did, so when the shit hit the fan, some of those same white employees spoke up! Racism puts everyone that is not racist in a very strange and uncomfortable situation.

[arr&bee]

And thanks to the nut in the white house,they're crawling out like roaches.

[marv2]

And thanks to the nut in the white house,they're crawling out like roaches.

Some are even proud of it now JAI. Amazing.

[arr&bee]

Sad,like the old nutcase who i heard say-after 150yrs you'd think that[negroes]could speak better english,this was at a public place after something was said over a speaker system..i was gonna bring up[andrew johnson and reconstruction]but it would'vd been futile,this racist was real old so i just shook my head and walked away.

[sansradio]

Once in high school band practice, a kid I was otherwise cool with casually asked me, "So who's the honky in your family?" [[Guess I wasn't Black enough for him.) When I told my dad about it, he said, "Next time, tell him, 'Your mama.'"

[marv2]

Once in high school band practice, a kid I was otherwise cool with casually asked me, "So who's the honky in your family?" [[Guess I wasn't Black enough for him.) When I told my dad about it, he said, "Next time, tell him, 'Your mama.'"
Now that would have been a good one! It took me until I was an adult and then some to finally understand that racism is taught! One quick example. When I was 9 years old and in the 4th Grade, I and all 4 Graders from my home school were bused out to different schools around the city due to overcrowding. I ended up at a majority white school in the far north end near Lake Erie. Any way. I got along with all the kids in my class and became friends with several who invited me to their houses for lunch that year. Oh we'd play, laugh etc,etc. We gave each other Christmas gifts and everything.

That was in 1969-70. Fast forward to 1976 and I was a Sophomore at my neighborhood high school and played on the JV basketball team. We had a game away at the high school where all of my 4th Grade white buddies attended. A couple were on their JV team we played against. After the game was over and before our team left their school, I went up to a bunch of them to say hello, because I was very happy to see them after several years. It was a group of about 8 of them, girls and guys that I had known in the 4th Grade. They just looked at me strangely, did not speak to me and got up and walked in the opposite direction. I stood there for a moment and kinda laughed it off to myself, but it really bothered me that they acted like that. We were all now 15 and 16 and they would not give me the time of day. Years later I still remember that day and that is when I learned that they were taught to not associate with black people!

[sansradio]

Now that would have been a good one! It took me until I was an adult and then some to finally understand that racism is taught! One quick example. When I was 9 years old and in the 4th Grade, I and all 4 Graders from my home school were bused out to different schools around the city due to overcrowding. I ended up at a majority white school in the far north end near Lake Erie. Any way. I got along with all the kids in my class and became friends with several who invited me to their houses for lunch that year. Oh we'd play, laugh etc,etc. We gave each other Christmas gifts and everything.

That was in 1969-70. Fast forward to 1976 and I was a Sophomore at my neighborhood high school and played on the JV basketball team. We had a game away at the high school were all of my 4th Grade white buddies attended. A couple were on their JV team we played against. After the game was over and before our team left their school, I went up to a bunch of them to say hello, because I was very happy to see them after several years. It was group of about 8 of them girls and guys that I had known in the 4th Grade. They just looked at me strangely, did not speak to me and got up and walked in the opposite direction. I stood there for a moment and kinda laughed it off to myself, but it really bothered me that they acted like that. We were all now 15 and 16 and they would not give me the time of day. Years later I still remember that day and that is when I learned that they were taught to not associate with black people!

Damn. Ain't that nothin'?

[marv2]

Damn. Ain't that nothin'?

It really was a big deal. I have a good memory and seem to remember most people that have been a part of my life at any point good or bad. One day in 2012, I was looking at our hometown paper on the internet and saw the obit for the wife of one of those old 4th Grade buddies. The one I was best friends with , so I thought. I wasn't local at the time,but I wonder if I would have went to pay my respects. I did not know her, but I did know him.

[Jerry Oz]

That story hurt my soul. It's amazing that none of those racists seems to care whether the blood they get in a transfusion came from a black donor or not. Pretty sure they wouldn't turn down a donated organ from one of us either. On the other hand, if you tried to give me monkey blood or organs, I'd get off of my sick bed to kick your ***. Tells me that when the rubber hits the road, that hate is just for the sake of hating, not because they think anybody is really different from anyone else.

[marv2]

That story hurt my soul. It's amazing that none of those racists seems to care whether the blood they get in a transfusion came from a black donor or not. Pretty sure they wouldn't turn down a donated organ from one of us either. On the other hand, if you tried to give me monkey blood or organs, I'd get off of my sick bed to kick your ***. Tells me that when the rubber hits the road, that hate is just for the sake of hating, not because they think anybody is really different from anyone else.

Which story Jerry?

[Jerry Oz]

About your former friends. Every time I drive past an elementary school playground, I look at the black and white and brown and yellow kids playing and enjoying life and it always plays in my mind that in five years or less, they'll all retreat to their own corners and forget that they ever knew each other. What a world.

A guy I used to work with once told me how upset he was when he took his children to see his in-laws in a suburb that is known for high housing prices. One day, a Nigerian neighbor knocked on the in-laws' door and politely requested that they not allow their children to play with his. He had heard so many negative things about American black people that he thought his kids were too good to play with them. Curiously, Somalis and Ethiopians don't seem to hold this attitude.

[Jerry Oz]

Swinging back to the original subject of this thread, I'm glad we're in an era where people of all ethnicities are comfortable playing the music that they want. I've been a huge Fishbone fan since the early '80s and part of my affection is their bravery in being a [[mostly) rock band from the hood. I also love Living Colour. There was a time when Charlie Pride was looked at with the side eye for being a country artist. Ray Charles looked at those haters and told them to kiss his blind *** and made one of the greatest country albums ever. Now, Darius Rucker is a huge country artist. Rev. Al apologized to Whitney for his ostracizing of her for making pop music, by the way. If you haven't watched the documentary "Whitney", I strongly encourage it.

We're a hugely diverse population and we should be able to make whatever kind of music we want.

[marv2]

About your former friends. Every time I drive past an elementary school playground, I look at the black and white and brown and yellow kids playing and enjoying life and it always plays in my mind that in five years or less, they'll all retreat to their own corners and forget that they ever knew each other. What a world.

A guy I used to work with once told me how upset he was when he took his children to see his in-laws in a suburb that is known for high housing prices. One day, a Nigerian neighbor knocked on the in-laws' door and politely requested that they not allow their children to play with his. He had heard so many negative things about American black people that he thought his kids were too good to play with them. Curiously, Somalis and Ethiopians don't seem to hold this attitude.

Well my story is one I am sure many people can probably tell with variations. It did stick with me all these decades later. It is sad to think that kids will be corrupted as they move through this thing called life!

I have a Pakistani buddy [[who I can't stand most of the time LOL) that sounds just the Nigerian neighbor. He says things to offend people all over the place just doesn't give a damn because he thinks he is "superior" because he is an engineer.

[marv2]

Swinging back to the original subject of this thread, I'm glad we're in an era where people of all ethnicities are comfortable playing the music that they want. I've been a huge Fishbone fan since the early '80s and part of my affection is their bravery in being a [[mostly) rock band from the hood. I also love Living Colour. There was a time when Charlie Pride was looked at with the side eye for being a country artist. Ray Charles looked at those haters and told them to kiss his blind *** and made one of the greatest country albums ever. Now, Darius Rucker is a huge country artist. Rev. Al apologized to Whitney for his ostracizing of her for making pop music, by the way. If you haven't watched the documentary "Whitney", I strongly encourage it.

We're a hugely diverse population and we should be able to make whatever kind of music we want.

I liked all of those people you mention, plus the new wave band "The Bus Boys"!. I liked some of almost all of the music trends that have come and gone during my lifetime. Disco, New Wave, New Jack Swing, Rap, Hip Hop, Electronic, House, but always in the background and always constant is my love of Rhythm & Blues and Rock. I don't love every R&B record or artist, nor do I love every Rock music artist or record. I am a lover of good music period. What they tried to pin on Whitney Houston was just downright stupid. Even the Pop music she was performing wasn't all that ground breaking. It was her voice and her ability to use it is what made her extraordinary. I could tell that she was a black woman when I heard her latest song on the radio just as I could tell Olivia Newton John was a white woman where her latest would come on the radio back in the mid 70s. I liked their voices and their songs. I could not make myself not like their music because of their color or ethnicity. That is impossible for me.

[Jerry Oz]

I liked everything Whitney did. She was a generational talent, like Ella Fitzgerald and Aretha Franklin and her life was much too short. And painful. I'm like you, I know what I like when I hear it and I couldn't care less about genre. And the Busboys is another of my favorite bands. I digitized their American Workers LP and play it all the time. Their leader was Brian O'Neal and I think he inspired Fishbone and Living Colour greatly, just by having the balls to be black and play the music they liked, which just happened to be rock.

And I cosign on your statement about not being able to make myself not like music because of color or ethnicity. Heck, Malcolm McLaren introduced me to music from the African continent and to this day, I enjoy music from bands like Malopoets, Ladysmith Black Mambazo, Oliver Mtkudzi and Fela Kuti. If he came out with an album like Duck Rock in 2019, he'd be accused of blatant cultural appropriation. Thank God he did it four decades earlier.

[marv2]

I liked everything Whitney did. She was a generational talent, like Ella Fitzgerald and Aretha Franklin and her life was much too short. And painful. I'm like you, I know what I like when I hear it and I couldn't care less about genre. And the Busboys is another of my favorite bands. I digitized their American Workers LP and play it all the time. Their leader was Brian O'Neal and I think he inspired Fishbone and Living Colour greatly, just by having the balls to be black and play the music they liked, which just happened to be rock.

And I cosign on your statement about not being able to make myself not like music because of color or ethnicity. Heck, Malcolm McLaren introduced me to music from the African continent and to this day, I enjoy music from bands like Malopoets, Ladysmith Black Mambazo, Oliver Mtkudzi and Fela Kuti. If he came out with an album like Duck Rock in 2019, he'd be accused of blatant cultural appropriation. Thank God he did it four decades earlier.

Oh they jumped on Malcolm Mclaren too [[no pun intended) about the double dutch song and video. Said he was exploiting black girls from the city. Ugh!

Here was a mult-racial band I liked back in the new wave era.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWLdZFCMx8Y

[marv2]

and then there were The Specials:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZ2oXzrnti4

[144man]

The Fun Boy Three were former members of the Specials who had been signed to the "2 Tone" label, the name of which is significant both racially and musically.

[marv2]

The Fun Boy Three were former members of the Specials who had been signed to the "2 Tone" label, the name of which is significant both racially and musically.

One of the members of the Specials died earlier this year,but cannot find the story again now.

[144man]

One of the members of the Specials died earlier this year,but cannot find the story again now.

It was Ranking Roger [Roger Charlery] of The Beat who died this year.

[marv2]

It was Ranking Roger [Roger Charlery] of The Beat who died this year.

That's who I was thinking of. Thank you 144man.

[marv2]

This is one of the popular songs by The English Beat when I was at school


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEGj4cfSgP8

[marv2]

I've not heard that either,and it would be very sad if he did make that statement,ever since Blacks have been performing in this country..Minstrel times until today there has been the question of-Who's Black enough which is just stupid,everyone has their own sound and style and should be accepted on it-I love the music of-Nat Cole as much as I love James Brown...and it's sad when we as Blacks condemn our own because they aren't...BLACK ENOUGH-excuse my french but-WHAT THE FUCK DOES THAT MEAN??

We didn't hear it, because Rev. Sharpton never boycotted Whitney Houston in any way. Also, he will not forever be linked to Tawana Brawley. That is not the first and only thing people think of when they see or hear Rev. Al Sharpton. Now there are some closed minded bigots out there that have a hard on for Rev. Al, that will only see that incident as his history or contribution to whatever. Not me or many others. That is like saying that Clinton will always be linked to Monica Lewinsky. That will be a chapter in his story,but no where near his entire story!

[nativeNY63]

It's all crazy. I remember when people used to say Bryant Gumbel tried to "sound white". I never understood the motivation for saying it. Forget the fact that he had a white parent for a second, which opens the door to ask what being "black" in America really means. What they were really saying is that he didn't sound black, as if you needed to speak some variation of ebonics to have credibility. He got kicked around for years and it made no sense. Why did they feel he needed to sound the way they spoke? Would they take him serious in his role if he did?

They didn't go to school for communications or public speaking and spend years building a career in news reporting. He made it to the top of his profession and was one of the best to ever do it and low-minded jealous people turned away from him to watch white anchors do the same thing. All while sounding "white". Screw them. Of course, now they jump on Tiger Woods for speaking through his nose, even though there are plenty of other reasons for peoples of color to take issue with him.
Or the equally insane expression, "acting white"!

[Jerry Oz]

Or the equally insane expression, "acting white"!Most definitely. I can't imagine being a black kid at a mostly white exclusive university like Duke. There is only a very small percentage. You have a choice of either gravitating toward the black kids or hanging with the white ones, who are the vast majority in your class rooms. The white ones can probably help you with your coursework because they're in the same class with the same professor, but you might get sneered at if someone from your clique sees you spending a lot of time studying together. For a whole lot of reasons, college is much different for black kids. Some struggle to maintain their identity even though you barely have one at that age.

[Jerry Oz]

This is one of the popular songs by The English Beat when I was at school


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEGj4cfSgP8Still a huge fan of Save It For Later.

[Jerry Oz]

Oh they jumped on Malcolm Mclaren too [[no pun intended) about the double dutch song and video. Said he was exploiting black girls from the city. Ugh!

Here was a mult-racial band I liked back in the new wave era.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWLdZFCMx8YI remember he took a lot of water for incorporating Burundi pop music into the sound of Bow Wow Wow. That was a big thing back then. He also was slammed for the oversexualization of 14 year old Annabella Lwin. Which begs the question, why would anyone sexualize a 14 year old, let alone oversexualize one? A lot of grown men went to church and confessed when they found out how young she was. I may or may not have been one of them [[although by "grown", I think I was about four years older).

[detmotownguy]

Still a huge fan of Save It For Later.
I still listen to the Beat. Thanks for posting.

[detmotownguy]

Great thread! Many intelligent and respectful points of view.

[marv2]

Most definitely. I can't imagine being a black kid at a mostly white exclusive university like Duke. There is only a very small percentage. You have a choice of either gravitating toward the black kids or hanging with the white ones, who are the vast majority in your class rooms. The white ones can probably help you with your coursework because they're in the same class with the same professor, but you might get sneered at if someone from your clique sees you spending a lot of time studying together. For a whole lot of reasons, college is much different for black kids. Some struggle to maintain their identity even though you barely have one at that age.

I went through that whole situation in college. When I graduated, I was the only African American male out of 1800 graduates that day.

[arr&bee]

i went through that whole situation in college. When i graduated, i was the only african american male out of 1800 graduates that day.wow marv,you a badddddddddddddd man!!!

[marv2]

wow marv,you a badddddddddddddd man!!!

Not bad, just determined! My Mom had no problem finding me in that big crowd! LOL!

[arr&bee]

not bad, just determined! My mom had no problem finding me in that big crowd! Lol!haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa..heard that!

[Jerry Oz]

Not bad, just determined! My Mom had no problem finding me in that big crowd! LOL!There was a raisin in a sea of rice that day. Man, I know you mom was super proud.

[marv2]

There was a raisin in a sea of rice that day. Man, I know you mom was super proud.

She was. It did not strike me the significance of that event, the graduation until the recessional.

[marv2]

Did you guys know that Whitney had 8 U.S. R&B number one hits?

[arr&bee]

I know it now,thanks marv.