The Wiz Revisited

[Ollie9]

I recently bought a dvd of The Wiz having not seen the complete film for over twenty years and watched it last night. It was in fact a little better then i remember it being when first released....just a little though..
For me one of the main ingredients missing from the film was any real sense of magic.
There are no great special effects to lift the film and create an atmosphere of wonder. The snow storm where Dorothy is whisked off to Oz is completly anticlimatic. The poppy girls scene also a huge disappointment as Dorothy and Lion end up lying on the roof in a drugged sleep and thats it.
On the plus side the music is wonderful, the cast do there best and some scenes are quite touching.
I was wondering how others felt about the film now in 2018 without seeing this as an opportunity to pull Diana apart about her age and the Stephanie Mills saga that has been totally done to death. :rolleyes:

[jobucats]

Although I can say that I somewhat enjoy The Wiz, I must say the major let down for me is the cinematography which for me, even back when it was released, was rather dismal. I expected the scenes to be more vibrant. Yes, I understand the setting was New York City and all that, and it's probably just a personal gripe of mine. I have the same issue with many of the movies that are coming out today in which I jokingly say to myself, "Can't these folk in these scenes at their homes afford a higher wattage light bulb?"

The actors themselves are spectacular in their roles. My favorite sequence is the "Brand New Day" scene. It sounded so vibrant in the theater. Diana Ross' rendition of "Home" was mesmerizing to me. Although it has probably been discussed here, it appears she is actually singing live on this song and that it's all in one camera take.

All in all, in my opinion, it's still an OK film with an OUTSTANDING soundtrack.

I do love the recent release of the music project where Diana Ross is singing most of the songs [[solo) from the Wiz, and the many voices she was able to portray in her vocals.

[sup_fan]

I agree that it's not hideous but certainly far from good. much less great

i think a few problems might be:

1. lack of exciting special effects - that's a good point Ollie
2. plods along - these are LONG song segments and there's an overall lack of forward movement. they could have tighened up a bunch of the songs and scenes to make them move along quicker
3. poor cinematography - for the entire first Ease On Down segment you're pretty much stuck in a giant wide shot and only seeing the backs of michael and dorothy. that makes the viewer feel completely disconnected with the scene. it's like i'm someone on a building 18blocks away watching something. i'm not being brought in
4. diana - she's wrong wrong wrong!! too old, too whiney, too serious. this is a musical fantasy and should be fun. she's playing it like it's MacBeth

[RanRan79]

I love it and I usually try to watch it around Thanksgiving every year but for some reason have failed to do so the last few years. As a child all of us children loved this and talked about it way more than the original Oz. The original I'm not a big fan of. I think what attracts me to The Wiz today [[as a child the biggest attraction was Michael Jackson and Diana Ross, in that order) is the music. It's not a movie that relies heavily on dialogue, obviously being a musical, and I find the musical numbers fantastic. So much great singing and music production. My favorite scene is "Brand New Day". It's perfect as far as I'm concerned.

To the criticism of Ross as Dorothy, while I understand it from a "purist" perspective [[both of the original film and the Broadway version), I also view the movie as a separate work apart from both the original Oz and the Broadway play. The movie was someone's else's art, which meant someone else's vision and interpretation. While people argue that the story should be about a young girl, I personally think changing the story to that of a young woman afraid to make her own way in the world, is just as viable, considering how many young adults- many straight out of college- are affected by that fear. But I do know that audiences often have a hard time viewing "entertainment art" as an interpretative expression and thus are bound to thumb it down simply because it wasn't what they thought it should be, based on what proceeded it.

But in my book The Wiz will always be a great work from start to finish.

[RanRan79]

I do love the recent release of the music project where Diana Ross is singing most of the songs [[solo) from the Wiz, and the many voices she was able to portray in her vocals.

It has it's moments [["Feeling We Once Had", "Wonder, Wonder Why" she is particularly in great form), but I don't care much for her doing the different voices. I'm also annoyed that she put "You Can't Win" in a medley rather than do the whole song. I always thought she would've sounded great singing it. And I hope one of these days that there's announcement that her version of "What Would I Do If I Could Feel" has been found. I find it hard to believe she recorded all those other songs but not that one.

[Coppelia-Birdsong]

I haven't seen the Wiz yet, but I really want to. But I wonder, the main gripe about Diana Ross being too old to play Dorothy.... is that a fair criticism do you think, people who have seen it? Myself, I like stories about adults in states of arrested development "coming of age" eventually and growing up after being taken out of their comfort zone. I like the idea of Dorothy being reimagined as a childlike, emotionally dependent thirty something woman who is forced to grow up in Oz. As someone who had a very controlling family who did everything they could to make me emotionally dependent on them and would constantly try to squash any attempts I made at challenging learned helplessness and becoming independent, this imagining of Dorothy resonates with me. It's like the Wiz is Dorothy ploughing through one hell of a quarter life crisis. It's like the Graduate, but with better drugs!

Also I think Diana in the Wiz is Diana at the height of her physical beauty, from what I've seen. She looks sublime!

[khansperac]

She was only 34 or something like that when she filmed this movie. People act like she was a 55 year old woman trying to play a 24 year old. There is a reason why she sang “ease on down the road” when she was honored at the AMA’s last year. To the younger generation this is all they know about Diana Ross. Brilliant decision to sing it. I do agree with those that say it was filmed too dark and not enough special effects. I’d like to add the fact that they should have, and didn’t show more scenes with the wicked witch. Oddly enough I watched part of the wizard of oz on TCM last night. My favorite scenes were those with the witch. The Wiz lacked this. The Wiz is glorious in my opinion because it truly showcased black talent, from the stars to the dancers and musicians. Top notch. By the way, those in NYC, they will play The Wiz in Bryant park this summer.
http://www.playbill.com/article/bryant-park-to-feature-screenings-of-the-wiz-the-philadelphia-story-the-princess-bride-and-more

[Ollie9]

A real joy to read such great comments.
I think there is frightened Dorothy in all of us, buried beneath the confident, capable persona we present to the real world.
I was always miffed one of my favourite songs from the soundtrack "Is This What Feeling Gets" was cut from the film. It's such a lovely song with expressive lyrics helping the audience understand Dorothys inner turmoil.
I agree with sup_fan that there are a lot of scenes that needed to be tightened up. A fairly brutal re-edit might have made room for that wonderful song.

[PeaceNHarmony]

I'm sorry to say this but I have never managed to get through the entire film! I find the performances / casting lovely and the score is killer [[I also love the Diana Sings Songs From ...) but I agree about the lack of 'magic' in the film. It's a directorial failure, I find. It's just a visually ugly, cheap looking movie despite its star power; there's something about the cinematography that makes every scene look somehow 'squashed'. I loved the musical [[saw it with Stephanie). I have not yet seen the televised version but want to.

[jobeterob]

I never thought it was a very strong movie

But it’s amazing how popular it is and how it’s grown in stature over time, I gather most of all in the black community

I think it’s Dianas most popular movie other than to us fans

[markwilson]

yes you are right , i also founded similar things you mentioned.

[marv2]

It was bad then, it is bad now. We all kind of knew it would be when they announced that Diana Ross would be in the role of Dorothy in 1977. I am sure Stephanie Mills is still smiling in the afterglow.........LOL!

[motony]

I saw the Wiz when originally released and the ONLY good thing about it were Diana Ross, Michael Jackson and the other actors such as Nipsy Russell.I have not seen it since.

[sup_fan]

Here’s an interesting review

https://youtu.be/_IVW7CGwKSI

[Roberta75]

It was bad then, it is bad now. We all kind of knew it would be when they announced that Diana Ross would be in the role of Dorothy in 1977. I am sure Stephanie Mills is still smiling in the afterglow.........LOL!

I dont think so. Stephanie Mills is a good person who doesnt harbor grudges like you do and unlike you Miss Mills actually knows Miss Ross and has a nice healthy life outside of all things related to Diane Ross.

[jobeterob]

[QUOTE=Roberta75;462544]I dont think so. Stephanie Mills is a good person who doesnt harbor grudges like you do and unlike you Miss Mills actually knows Miss Ross and has a nice healthy life outside of all things related to Diane Ross.[/QUOTE

bravo bravo

[TheMotownManiac]

It was bad then, it is bad now. We all kind of knew it would be when they announced that Diana Ross would be in the role of Dorothy in 1977. I am sure Stephanie Mills is still smiling in the afterglow.........LOL!

Why would Stephanie be smiling cuz the movie stinks? Do you think she’s a petty, childish, vindictive brat that basks in the glow of other’s misfortune? I would guess not........I doubt it. She’s had lots of misfires in her career and I doubt very much she finds those worth smiling about either. These artists put themselves out there for public scrutiny and understand the highs and lows........

[jobucats]

Sorry, Ollie9, for the apparent disregard by some of bringing up another celebrity's name.

One more thing I recall about The Wiz soundtrack. In some liner notes or other press that was coming out at the time of the soundtrack's release, I recall Quincy saying that Diana was pretty much being put out of her comfort zone for the vocal range required for many of the musical numbers.

And something else about the movie itself...Most of the fans of the movie and Diana Ross are aware that she suffered some eye damage from looking at the light when meeting the Wiz. Some sources say it was temporary damage; others say she still has some issues because of it.

[reese]

Sorry, Ollie9, for the apparent disregard by some of bringing up another celebrity's name.

One more thing I recall about The Wiz soundtrack. In some liner notes or other press that was coming out at the time of the soundtrack's release, I recall Quincy saying that Diana was pretty much being put out of her comfort zone for the vocal range required for many of the musical numbers.

And something else about the movie itself...Most of the fans of the movie and Diana Ross are aware that she suffered some eye damage from looking at the light when meeting the Wiz. Some sources say it was temporary damage; others say she still has some issues because of it.

I think THE WIZ is a good film, but it is not one I make a point of watching. But if I come across it while channel surfing, I'll pop in and out of it if one of my favorite scenes is coming up, like the A BRAND NEW DAY segment, Lena Horne's cameo, or Diana's finale of HOME.

In the booklet that came with the soundtrack album, Quincy said was Diana was singing "a minor third higher that she's ever sung in her life." Listening to the vocals on it and later those on her THE BOSS album, Diana certainly did seem to be extending her vocal range and power.

Re her eyes, I have read that there were some really anxious moments when it came to her sight. I think she is still very sensitive to light and she mentioned in her book that there is still a spot in her eye that is dark.

[Circa 1824]

1. The movie was kind of boring
2. Diana's hair and teeth looked bad. They tried too hard to unglamorize her.
3. Michael looked horrible

The film was boring, and the stars were unappealing to look at ...... hmmmmmm

[[I remember Dionne Warwick saying she could see yellow armpit stains in Dorthy's white dress.)

BTW, The Wiz is one of the films being shown outside in Bryant Park, NYC, this summer.

[marv2]

Diana Ross has not been a theatrically released film since.

[Circa 1824]

Diana Ross has not been a theatrically released film since.

I think that is because SHE only wanted to do hugely expensive films, and not do smaller important ones. A business woman she is not.

[marv2]

I think that is because SHE only wanted to do hugely expensive films, and not do smaller important ones. A business woman she is not.

She should have done "The Bodyguard". Whitney did and the rest is history......

[jack020]

And we all know what happened to Whitney.....

[marv2]

And we all know what happened to Whitney.....

She died? That's going to happen to everyone so don't go bragging.

[marv2]

And we all know what happened to Whitney.....

Her recording of "I Will Always Love You" from the soundtrack to "The Bodyguard" went on to top 13 Charts in more than 10 countries simultaneously. The single probably outsold all of Diana Ross singles combined!

[marv2]

And we all know what happened to Whitney.....

Houston's single was also an international success, peaking at number one of the singles charts in almost all countries! What was the songs from "The Wiz" that went to number one......anywhere? LOL!!!!

[luke]

I thought there was an agreement not to go after forum members personally? Obviously one person acting out again. Sadly ignore button has its limitations... but we can hope.

[marv2]

Although "The Wiz" was a complete BOMB, there were three scenes from the movie that were pretty good and memorable"

1. Nipsey Russell's mournful "If I Could Feel" as the Tinman in the deserted carnival yard.
2. Michael Jackson's soulful "You Can't Win" backed up by the Scarecrows
3. Lena Horne's near show stopper "If You Believe" looking every inch like legendary star she was and the little babies all around her.

[Boogiedown]

Even the costumes sucked.

[vgalindo]

She died? That's going to happen to everyone so don't go bragging.
Yes you are right everyone is going to die. But the difference is Whitney died very tragically. And way too young.

[marv2]

Even the costumes sucked.

Totally! The ending with that ghastly close up of Diana Ross screaming out the lyrics to "Home", the veins in her neck looking like they were about to explode caused some to get right up and walk out of the theater. We stayed until the very bitter end. LOL!!!

[marv2]

Yes you are right everyone is going to die. But the difference is Whitney died very tragically. And way too young.

All death is tragic to the surviving loved ones. No matter what the age of the deceased.

[vgalindo]

All death is tragic to the surviving loved ones. No matter what the age of the deceased.
You really don't get the point! Yes every death is tragic to the family. But I said she died very tragically. There is a difference!

[marv2]

You really don't get the point! Yes every death is tragic to the family. But I said she died very tragically. There is a difference!

I get what I know and that is all that is important here to me. I have never been into ranking deaths of people based on YOUR criteria of what is tragic!

[jobeterob]

I don't think this is a good movie so I wonder why it keeps being shown on so many channels, why it's a cult classic, why it has a DVD release etc. and why it's Diana's most popular movie when others like Out of Darkness and Lady Sings the Blues were so much better.

[marv2]

I don't think this is a good movie so I wonder why it keeps being shown on so many channels, why it's a cult classic, why it has a DVD release etc. and why it's Diana's most popular movie when others like Out of Darkness and Lady Sings the Blues were so much better.

It is because of Michael Jackson and it being his first film. He was the greatest star and people want any and everything he did. Has nothing to do with wanting to see "Diana ross" LOL! FACTS!

[Roberta75]

Totally! The ending with that ghastly close up of Diana Ross screaming out the lyrics to "Home", the veins in her neck looking like they were about to explode caused some to get right up and walk out of the theater. We stayed until the very bitter end. LOL!!!

Yeah.......and youve watched that close up scene with Diane singing home a 100 times and probably lip synced to it with your hairbrush as a mic another 100 times.

[Roberta75]

I thought there was an agreement not to go after forum members personally? Obviously one person acting out again. Sadly ignore button has its limitations... but we can hope.

I know but its in your BFF's DNA to attack but you alread know that.

[khansperac]

The Wiz just came on TV. Saw the original Wizard of Oz on Friday night and now The Wiz all in one weekend.

[Bluebrock]

I'm sorry to say this but I have never managed to get through the entire film! I find the performances / casting lovely and the score is killer [[I also love the Diana Sings Songs From ...) but I agree about the lack of 'magic' in the film. It's a directorial failure, I find. It's just a visually ugly, cheap looking movie despite its star power; there's something about the cinematography that makes every scene look somehow 'squashed'. I loved the musical [[saw it with Stephanie). I have not yet seen the televised version but want to.
Totally agree. The music is sublime, but i have never managed to sit through the whole film despite many attempts. It is truly awful, yet Diana and MJ are two of my all time favourite performers. Go figure.

[Ollie9]

I love it and I usually try to watch it around Thanksgiving every year but for some reason have failed to do so the last few years. As a child all of us children loved this and talked about it way more than the original Oz. The original I'm not a big fan of. I think what attracts me to The Wiz today [[as a child the biggest attraction was Michael Jackson and Diana Ross, in that order) is the music. It's not a movie that relies heavily on dialogue, obviously being a musical, and I find the musical numbers fantastic. So much great singing and music production. My favorite scene is "Brand New Day". It's perfect as far as I'm concerned.

To the criticism of Ross as Dorothy, while I understand it from a "purist" perspective [[both of the original film and the Broadway version), I also view the movie as a separate work apart from both the original Oz and the Broadway play. The movie was someone's else's art, which meant someone else's vision and interpretation. While people argue that the story should be about a young girl, I personally think changing the story to that of a young woman afraid to make her own way in the world, is just as viable, considering how many young adults- many straight out of college- are affected by that fear. But I do know that audiences often have a hard time viewing "entertainment art" as an interpretative expression and thus are bound to thumb it down simply because it wasn't what they thought it should be, based on what proceeded it.

But in my book The Wiz will always be a great work from start to finish.

Interesting and insightful comments RanRan79.
I agree with everything you say except The Wiz being a great work from start to finish. The music yes, the film no.
Viewing the film forty years after its first release the passing years for me have added enchantment to the view. It still has many flaws, but there is also a lot to enjoy as well.
The Brand New Day sequence being my favourite, Dororthys arrival in Oz being my least. It took a long time but the Wiz finally found it's audience and has gone on to become a cult classic.....:cool:

[RanRan79]

Interesting and insightful comments RanRan79.
I agree with everything you say except The Wiz being a great work from start to finish. The music yes, the film no.
Viewing the film forty years after its first release the passing years for me have added enchantment to the view. It still has many flaws, but there is also a lot to enjoy as well.
The Brand New Day sequence being my favourite, Dororthys arrival in Oz being my least. It took a long time but the Wiz finally found it's audience and has gone on to become a cult classic.....:cool:

Yeah, I imagine it could've been better in some ways. [[I do agree with those who say it's too dark.) But any of it's shortcomings aren't big enough to knock it down in my book. I get the feeling that the movie is knocked mostly by folks who grew up with only the Wizard of Oz and is mostly beloved by folks who grew up with both movies. I get the feeling also that it may have been more popular with African American children who grew up with it. I remember it coming on television once when I was seven or eight. The next day at school that's all we kids talked about was "The Wiz". We never talked about the Wizard of Oz. Lol

[whitesoxx]

Houston's single was also an international success, peaking at number one of the singles charts in almost all countries! What was the songs from "The Wiz" that went to number one......anywhere? LOL!!!!

Sorry to burst your bubble but "A Brand New Day" went to number one on both the Dutch and Belgian charts in 1979.

[khansperac]

Here is a video of the behind the scenes, making of the Wiz


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHYANjtk4gA

[jim aka jtigre99]

I found The Wiz to be okay, but not the big musical and hit it should have been considering the talent. I see they were trying to give it a 1970's NYC vibe with the sets but it didn't transfer as well to film as it would as a set piece in a play. None of the acting was awful but I was disappointed in Diana Ross' performance after she was superb in Lady Sings The Blues and was able to rise above the material in Mahogany. She seemed to be playing it with just being downhearted or scared and it should have been a vehicle she could have easily transcended whatever shortcomings in the production with her abilities. She did a decent job later on television with Double Platinum and was excellent in Out of Darkness, so wondering if it was direction or simply miscast. The good thing was Quincy Jones and Michael Jackson bonded and formed a collaboration that set the music world on fire. I remember reading Jackson wanted to play Peter Pan, but maybe reflecting on how the Wiz was initially received he never got it off the ground. Shame, because Diana Ross was a good actress and this film seems to be the one the new generation is familiar with.

[Boogiedown]

. I remember reading Jackson wanted to play Peter Pan, but maybe reflecting on how the Wiz was initially received he never got it off the ground. Shame, .
That was s project that should have been meant to be. Likely to be a timeless classic.

I never understood how Michael Jackson, a Motown deserter, was given the starring role in a Motown film.?

[midnightman]

Don't think Diana was at fault for how The Wiz turned out. Turns out Sidney Lumet stepped over his boundaries trying to produce a BLACK musical...

Had some things have been different like the cinematography and special effects, it would've turned out to be a better film.

That said, ONE thing the film had going for it was the music. Everyone - except Nipsey Russell lmao - was brilliant with the songs they sang.

Diana slayed "Home". And MJ's studio version of You Can't Win remains an underrated masterpiece in the MJ canon:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bZfQEmG4i8

BUT I still love that part where things changed colors and people reacted according to the color change. :) The film version of "The Wiz" is pretty campy and with campy films, that's all you need, forget everything else. Everything can go wrong but as long as if it has something campy in it, it's forgiven. That seems to be the case with "The Wiz".

Plus Luther's "Everybody Rejoice [[Brand New Day)" shows that early on before he became Luther Vandross, he was already a force to be reckoned with.

[khansperac]

I never understood how Michael Jackson, a Motown deserter, was given the starring role in a Motown film.?

It’s been said that Diana wanted him in the movie.

[Boogiedown]

Berry must have been in his "whatever" mode by this point.

[Boogiedown]

"Don't think Diana was at fault for how The Wiz turned out. Turns out Sidney Lumet stepped over his boundaries trying to produce a BLACK musical..."

Sidney Lumet was the director.
What "boundaries" are you trying to suggest?

Actually the way THE WIZ turned out lies directly at Diana's feet. Once she muscled her way into the leading role , the intended director, John Badham , no longer wanted anything to do with the project and bowed out thus taking the film's original concepts with him. He apparently wanted nothing to do with a film centered around a 30 something year-old woman playing the part of a 24-year-old teacher that' replaces the central part intended to be about a young girl .

[marv2]

"Don't think Diana was at fault for how The Wiz turned out. Turns out Sidney Lumet stepped over his boundaries trying to produce a BLACK musical..."

Sidney Lumet was the director.
What "boundaries" are you trying to suggest?

Actually the way THE WIZ turned out lies directly at Diana's feet. Once she muscled her way into the leading role , the intended director, John Badham , no longer wanted anything to do with the project and bowed out thus taking the film's original concepts with him. He apparently wanted nothing to do with a film centered around a 30 something year-old woman playing the part of a 24-year-old teacher that' replaces the central part intended to be about a young girl .

Back at that time, we did not have the internet of course, many people wrote into different publications complaining about the casting of Diana Ross in the Wiz. This was a whole year before they began shooting that it was announced in Jet Magazine that Miss Ross got the part. Even Mr. Gordy had reservations about her playing Dorothy. She said she had a dream one night that she WAS Dorothy and that she had to play the part. LOL! Now this was the biggest budget black film in history up to that point. The estimated cost was around $33 million to produce it. Mr. Gordy had more than a few reasons to be nervous, but he relented and let Ross do the part. This was a grown woman with 3 kids and had been in the public eye going on 15 years by that time. I do not recall reading that anyone believing that she would be good for the role.

[RanRan79]

Don't think Diana was at fault for how The Wiz turned out. Turns out Sidney Lumet stepped over his boundaries trying to produce a BLACK musical...

Had some things have been different like the cinematography and special effects, it would've turned out to be a better film.

That said, ONE thing the film had going for it was the music. Everyone - except Nipsey Russell lmao - was brilliant with the songs they sang.

Diana slayed "Home". And MJ's studio version of You Can't Win remains an underrated masterpiece in the MJ canon:

BUT I still love that part where things changed colors and people reacted according to the color change. :) The film version of "The Wiz" is pretty campy and with campy films, that's all you need, forget everything else. Everything can go wrong but as long as if it has something campy in it, it's forgiven. That seems to be the case with "The Wiz".

Plus Luther's "Everybody Rejoice [[Brand New Day)" shows that early on before he became Luther Vandross, he was already a force to be reckoned with.

Even though Nipsey clearly isn't a vocalist [[I wonder why they didn't get a comic who could sing to do the role?) he managed both of his songs very well. "What Would I Do" is fantastic and Nipsey's lack of vocal skills doesn't detract. Makes me wonder what the song would've turned into had a real singer done it. Can you imagine Luther singing this? Woo...

[vgalindo]

Back at that time, we did not have the internet of course, many people wrote into different publications complaining about the casting of Diana Ross in the Wiz. This was a whole year before they began shooting that it was announced in Jet Magazine that Miss Ross got the part. Even Mr. Gordy had reservations about her playing Dorothy. She said she had a dream one night that she WAS Dorothy and that she had to play the part. LOL! Now this was the biggest budget black film in history up to that point. The estimated cost was around $33 million to produce it. Mr. Gordy had more than a few reasons to be nervous, but he relented and let Ross do the part. This was a grown woman with 3 kids and had been in the public eye going on 15 years by that time. I do not recall reading that anyone believing that she would be good for the role.
The film did not have a 33 million dollar budget until they hired Diana Ross. Universal would have never financed the film for that amount if it weren't for the star power of Diana Ross. In fact they paid her a million dollars to do the film making her one of the highest paid actress of the time.
Without Diana it was going to be a low budget film.

[marv2]

The film did not have a 33 million dollar budget until they hired Diana Ross. Universal would have never financed the film for that amount if it weren't for the star power of Diana Ross. In fact they paid her a million dollars to do the film making her one of the highest paid actress of the time.
Without Diana it was going to be a low budget film.

Initially, Universal was so excited about the film's prospects that they did not set a budget for production. Costs went up to $ 33 million so stop lying.........

[marv2]

Here they report production costs of $ 24 million. By the time they wrapped, Jet Magazine gave the final figure of $33 million so stop with the lying please:

http://mentalfloss.com/article/71780/12-things-you-might-not-know-about-wiz


12 Things You Might Not Know About 'The Wiz' | Mental Floss
mentalfloss.com/article/71780/12-things-you-might-not-know-about-wiz

11. AT THE TIME, ITS 1978 FILM ADAPTATION WAS THE MOST EXPENSIVE MOVIE MUSICAL EVER MADE. The film, which cost $24 million, bombed at the box office. 12. MICHAEL JACKSON’S SCARECROW MAKEUP TOOK FOUR HOURS TO APPLY.

[marv2]

The film did not have a 33 million dollar budget until they hired Diana Ross. Universal would have never financed the film for that amount if it weren't for the star power of Diana Ross. In fact they paid her a million dollars to do the film making her one of the highest paid actress of the time.
Without Diana it was going to be a low budget film.

It was one of the biggest duds of the decade. So much for Diana Ross' star power. LOL!

[Boogiedown]

Marv:
"She said she had a dream one night that she WAS Dorothy and that she had to play the part. LOL! "

I had a dream once that I was Long Dong Silver but that still didn't qualify me for the part!!

😝LOL!!!!

[vgalindo]

Initially, Universal was so excited about the film's prospects that they did not set a budget for production. Costs went up to $ 33 million so stop lying.........

Marv. Why do you call everyone a liar that don't agree with you? You really need help. The 24 million dollar budget was given by Universal after they secured Diana Ross and that is a fact!

[vgalindo]

It was one of the biggest duds of the decade. So much for Diana Ross' star power. LOL!
I am not arguing with you. Yes it did flop at the box office. And I guess that makes you very happy! That is very sad..
But it is now a cult classic and has been release on DVD several times as well as BlueRay. It is now appreciated by many. And I know that kills you. Also Diana was paid a million dollars! Lol

[marv2]

Marv:
"She said she had a dream one night that she WAS Dorothy and that she had to play the part. LOL! "

I had a dream once that I was Long Dong Silver but that still didn't qualify me for the part!!

��LOL!!!!

But you must always.........."Dare to Dream!" LOL!!!!

[jobeterob]

I am not arguing with you. Yes it did flop at the box office. And I guess that makes you very happy! That is very sad..
But it is now a cult classic and has been release on DVD several times as well as BlueRay. It is now appreciated by many. And I know that kills you. Also Diana was paid a million dollars! Lol

The wiz has now made money for all involved and Miss Ross gets some more money from it each time it plays on tv

She also wears her perfume she made several million dollars off of whenever she sits and watches it - rarely but happened once

[midnightman]

Even though Nipsey clearly isn't a vocalist [[I wonder why they didn't get a comic who could sing to do the role?) he managed both of his songs very well. "What Would I Do" is fantastic and Nipsey's lack of vocal skills doesn't detract. Makes me wonder what the song would've turned into had a real singer done it. Can you imagine Luther singing this? Woo...

Tiger Haynes played the Tin Man in the original version of the Wiz. I think he does a better job of those songs than Nipsey. JMHO.

[marv2]

Marv. Why do you call everyone a liar that don't agree with you? You really need help. The 24 million dollar budget was given by Universal after they secured Diana Ross and that is a fact!

I don't call everyone a liar. I only point it out when it is clear that you are willful in lying. It's about the truth. It is not about agreeing with me, nor is that important. The truth is! You see when you're clearly lying, you are not the only one that knows that you are lying. Do not add anything to it and do not take anything away from it, the truth. The Wiz ran over budget and it ran over $30 million. $33 million is the number that keeps coming back to me from 40 years ago now. I thank God I still have an excellent memory, because this is where I read about the $33 million 40 years ago!

Jet Magazine, Nov.16, 1978

14308

[marv2]

I am not arguing with you. Yes it did flop at the box office. And I guess that makes you very happy! That is very sad..
But it is now a cult classic and has been release on DVD several times as well as BlueRay. It is now appreciated by many. And I know that kills you. Also Diana was paid a million dollars! Lol

Read the article I just posted from Jet Magazine, where I got the number $33 million. Do not apologize for lying to me. You see when someone lies to me, I loose respect for them, so anything you say to me from that point on, I tend to not believe. Here is also the link to the article:

https://books.google.com/books?id=gL8DAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA60&dq=The+Wiz&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjm7OGj9crbAhWRy1MKHXEvAWYQ6AEIKTAA#v=on epage&q=The%20Wiz&f=false

[marv2]

Marv. Why do you call everyone a liar that don't agree with you? You really need help. The 24 million dollar budget was given by Universal after they secured Diana Ross and that is a fact!

You can read. You read where I said it was $33 million, yet you persist in lying just to keep up an argument. A good person, an intelligent person would simply respond with "I'm sorry, I had inaccurate information, thank you for providing me with the correct information". It is clear, you're not one of those people.

[jack020]

A famous dutch tv-host ended a run of 5 years of late night shows last week and guess which clip they showed when guests were asked which songs were hits the year they were born?
A Brand New Day! And the whole audience sang and clapped along.:o

[marv2]

A famous dutch tv-host ended a run of 5 years of late night shows last week and guess which clip they showed when guests were asked which songs were hits the year they were born?
A Brand New Day! And the whole audience sang and clapped along.:o

That sounds wonderful.

[midnightman]

A famous dutch tv-host ended a run of 5 years of late night shows last week and guess which clip they showed when guests were asked which songs were hits the year they were born?
A Brand New Day! And the whole audience sang and clapped along.:o

A Brand New Day was a HUGE hit in the Netherlands. :)

But seriously that song is that knock. Again, a testament to Luther's genius.

He even did his own version in '76.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWRS6WbkfLE

[Roberta75]

Wow...Marv2 has made 20 plus postings on this thread alone obsessing over Diane Ross. Thats so sick to spend all that time on a woman he "claims' not to like but is totally infatuated with. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

[PeaceNHarmony]

A famous dutch tv-host ended a run of 5 years of late night shows last week and guess which clip they showed when guests were asked which songs were hits the year they were born?
A Brand New Day! And the whole audience sang and clapped along.:o
Interesting - the Dutch got some soul!

[thommg]

There is no doubt that the film is leaden. It should have a sense of magic and fun and it does not. Also, so much of the film is shot poorly. Brand New Day repeats the same camera moves over and over cutting down on the excitement of the number so it doesn't really build. The fashion sequences in "Oz" are long and boring, not exciting or magical in any way. Even the Wizard, before Richard Pryor is exposed, is just a head that sits there with lazar eyes, which photographs poorly. Why no fire? Why no true lighting effects? Even poor Lena Horne just hangs from her wire and sings with all those babies just hanging from wires. Lumet had no sense of enchantment, and that is the movies downfall to me. I think Diana could have worked in a movie willed with wonder, but it doesn't in a movie that eschews the wonder for reality.

[alanbill1074]

He was the wrong director for it. It's a very cold film, with terrible editing. I mean, Ease On Down The Road is some of the worst filming I've ever seen

I thought the entire cast did well with what they had to work with but as a movie it's a stinker. Great soundtrack though.

I hope one day to make it to the end in one sitting.

[vgalindo]

You can read. You read where I said it was $33 million, yet you persist in lying just to keep up an argument. A good person, an intelligent person would simply respond with "I'm sorry, I had inaccurate information, thank you for providing me with the correct information". It is clear, you're not one of those people.
The film was given a 24 million dollar budget when they secured Diana Ross. So it went over budget at 33 million. Where am I lying? I agree to that. If you pay attention. I am not disputing the budget amount! I am just saying it was given that amount due to having Diana Ross in the starring role. I am sorry Marv if that upsets you.

[jobeterob]

The film was given a 24 million dollar budget when they secured Diana Ross. So it went over budget at 33 million. Where am I lying? I agree to that. If you pay attention. I am not disputing the budget amount! I am just saying it was given that amount due to having Diana Ross in the starring role. I am sorry Marv if that upsets you.

What’s upsetting to him is that had now made money and Diane keeps adding nickels and dimes daily from it as does Michael’s lawyer run estate

[Boogiedown]

Just out of curiosity , are there memorable lines from The Wiz?
There must be a good twenty lines you can throw out from the original that would be recognized.
Did Diana deliver any "Run, Toto! Run!"s??

[kenneth]

I only saw "The Wiz" once long ago. After seeing the stage production [[although Stephanie Mills wasn't in it when I saw it), it was a great disappointment. As much as I love Ross, she was just all wrong for the part. But the main thing I remember about it is that it just wasn't fun as a film. There was no excitement, no sense of wonder or magic. It seemed overlong, tedious and too message-heavy. There's nothing wrong with a message but I don't like it beaten into me!

[marv2]

I only saw "The Wiz" once long ago. After seeing the stage production [[although Stephanie Mills wasn't in it when I saw it), it was a great disappointment. As much as I love Ross, she was just all wrong for the part. But the main thing I remember about it is that it just wasn't fun as a film. There was no excitement, no sense of wonder or magic. It seemed overlong, tedious and too message-heavy. There's nothing wrong with a message but I don't like it beaten into me!

There is a scene in NetFlix's "The Get Down" where they went to see "The Wiz". That was exactly my experience except I held off going to see it until Thanksgiving break my freshman year in college.

[jobeterob]

I only saw "The Wiz" once long ago. After seeing the stage production [[although Stephanie Mills wasn't in it when I saw it), it was a great disappointment. As much as I love Ross, she was just all wrong for the part. But the main thing I remember about it is that it just wasn't fun as a film. There was no excitement, no sense of wonder or magic. It seemed overlong, tedious and too message-heavy. There's nothing wrong with a message but I don't like it beaten into me!

I just found it boring

What makes it so popular now? Why is it always on tv? Why the DVD releases?

Is it Diana and Michael together? It’s got to be more than that

[Roberta75]

There is a scene in NetFlix's "The Get Down" where they went to see "The Wiz". That was exactly my experience except I held off going to see it until Thanksgiving break my freshman year in college.

Nobody is interested in when you saw The Wiz or where or when you were in your college years. We are real interested in you staying out of threads you cant be civil in. Your poisionous ugly rantings about Diane Ross are disgraceful for a grown man whos darned near Social Security age. Find your self respect and ask God to show you the high road. It cant be good for your health carrying around so much hate for a women you dont know and never will know. Stop and smell the roses or read a book or go feed the homeless or volunteer at a Childrens hospital. Those are things humbling acts that really matter and bring a sense of satisfaction to all of us.

[DMCFAN]

Wow. After reading these threads the past week or so I think Roberta might be my new BFF. Such a voice of reason and fresh air and reality. Subject at hand worries me...

[blackguy69]

Kids it’s only a movie nothing major. Some like it, some don’t. Life isn’t going to crash because someone gives an opinion you don’t like. Ignore it and push on.

[Bluebrock]

Nobody is interested in when you saw The Wiz or where or when you were in your college years. We are real interested in you staying out of threads you cant be civil in. Your poisionous ugly rantings about Diane Ross are disgraceful for a grown man whos darned near Social Security age. Find your self respect and ask God to show you the high road. It cant be good for your health carrying around so much hate for a women you dont know and never will know. Stop and smell the roses or read a book or go feed the homeless or volunteer at a Childrens hospital. Those are things humbling acts that really matter and bring a sense of satisfaction to all of us.
And that sums up exactly why i love my dear friend Roberta so very much. God Bless you xx

[ralpht]

Roberta, you are SO out of order here. Your hostile response to Marv's comment on when he first saw the play was totally out of order.. Think about it and take a break. I'm letting you slide on this one only because of your longevity here.

[Roberta75]

Roberta, you are SO out of order here. Your hostile response to Marv's comment on when he first saw the play was totally out of order.. Think about it and take a break. I'm letting you slide on this one only because of your longevity here.

My comment was based on the 20 plus endless tiresome comments hes made in this here thread trashing a woman he doesnt know. but its your forum Ralph and I respect you so im going to take a break from him and put him back on ignore.

[ralpht]

It seems to me, Roberta, that you aired out everything you dislike about Marv in one posting. Just give it a rest, please.

[RanRan79]

I just found it boring

What makes it so popular now? Why is it always on tv? Why the DVD releases?

Is it Diana and Michael together? It’s got to be more than that

I think Michael Jackson's involvement is the biggest draw, but people are going to be especially interested when you throw in Diana and Richard Pryor and Lena Horne, three absolute legends [[four, counting Michael) in one movie. And I think aside from a minority of folks still feeling some type a way about Diana Ross' casting and some of the other questionable filming decisions, most of that 1970s controversy means nothing today, especially considering, as I mentioned before, that there is a whole generation of children who grew up with The Wiz and now that generation has children who are growing up with it.

Remember also that when the original movie was released in the 30s, nobody was screaming about it's greatness either. It wasn't until it was shown on television that The Wizard of Oz began to resonate with audiences. I would say The Wiz followed in it's footsteps in that way.

[RanRan79]

The film was given a 24 million dollar budget when they secured Diana Ross. So it went over budget at 33 million. Where am I lying? I agree to that. If you pay attention. I am not disputing the budget amount! I am just saying it was given that amount due to having Diana Ross in the starring role. I am sorry Marv if that upsets you.

I think most people understand your point Vgalindo. That initial 24 million was on the table because Diana Ross was doing the movie. Had another actress been given the role [[and I don't think Stephanie Mills had a chance in hell), there's every belief that the initial budget for the film would have not been so exorbitant. The movie studio was banking on Diana Ross putting butts in the seats in the same way she did her first two films. Her name, and at that time to a lesser extent the name of Michael Jackson, certainly brought folks out to see it but once people left going "what the hell was that crap" and telling anyone who would listen, the studio didn't have a prayer in recouping the budget and making a profit.

[Ollie9]

I think Michael Jackson's involvement is the biggest draw, but people are going to be especially interested when you throw in Diana and Richard Pryor and Lena Horne, three absolute legends [[four, counting Michael) in one movie. And I think aside from a minority of folks still feeling some type a way about Diana Ross' casting and some of the other questionable filming decisions, most of that 1970s controversy means nothing today, especially considering, as I mentioned before, that there is a whole generation of children who grew up with The Wiz and now that generation has children who are growing up with it.

Remember also that when the original movie was released in the 30s, nobody was screaming about it's greatness either. It wasn't until it was shown on television that The Wizard of Oz began to resonate with audiences. I would say The Wiz followed in it's footsteps in that way.

I would say this pretty much sums up how The Wiz is viewed today in 2018. As you state a whole new generation have grown up with this film and view it quite differently from the expectations of a 70's audience.
For me the music is that good it transcends any shortcomings the film might have.
I particularly enjoy the moment when there is a glimpse of Diana Ross and not Dororthy. It is when having killed Evillene she is about to climb onto a motorbike and flashes Michael a huge Diana grin.

[captainjames]

Odd man out here
I love it
watch it every year. Its funny as hell to us, especially the miss one scene...."What's a wiz ? Whats a wiz...Honey he is the ultimate ,,,!!!! and the splatter of the first witch and the toilet scene. The movie is a hoot and will live on better today than when it was made. Michael Jackson walking around and rolling his eyes at the lion has me dying with laughter. Diana Ross dancing in "Brand New Day " without a double is outstanding especially the cartwheels. I can feel them having a good time so yes I could feel a Brand new day. I can't remember the monkey with the bad breath and stank. Sorry the movie was hilarious to me.

[TheMotownManiac]

But you must always.........."Dare to Dream!" LOL!!!!

Speaking of flops......LOL!!!!

[TheMotownManiac]

You can read. You read where I said it was $33 million, yet you persist in lying just to keep up an argument. A good person, an intelligent person would simply respond with "I'm sorry, I had inaccurate information, thank you for providing me with the correct information". It is clear, you're not one of those people.

Here you are, name-calling again. Suggesting someone is not a good person and not intelligent.

How odd - I recently posted several corrections to your inaccuracies and not once did you respond with the above platitude that, according to you good and intelligent people do.

[TheMotownManiac]

Personally, I think the wiz is atrocious. I only like Thelma Carpenter in it and snips of others .......

i dont blame the actors because they were doing what the director wanted. As AWFUL as ross, MJ and Richard Pryor are with every spoken word, it is what Lumet wanted. We all know that Diana and Richard Pryor can give much better performances than what they did in this film…… Michael simply just cannot act. The film was ill conceived with the hideous screen play…… Visually it’s annoying…… It’s edited horribly…… The sound is bad...And why people under 40 love it now I have no idea.

As for the $33 million budget, I do not believe that. That figure was only used in jet magazine which was nothing more than a glorified national Inquirer. Every other source uses the $24 million budget and it is the one that I believe is correct. The IMDB source is as accurate as any for the film industry. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078504/

[RanRan79]

That figure was only used in jet magazine which was nothing more than a glorified national Inquirer.

Jet Magazine was for many years a major source of African American news related to politics, life and entertainment. The magazine was highly respected in the community and for good reason as it spotlighted major issues affecting the Black community, issues that were often not reported on in other major news sources. It was also a great source for features on Motown artists from the 60s on, many of whom made the cover. I realize that everyone is entitled to their opinion, but there is no way I'm going to allow a equation between such an esteemed publication as Jet and that shitty ass rag called the National Enquirer stand without a counter viewpoint. I'm hoping you've mistaken the magazine you meant to mention. People Magazine perhaps?

[midnightman]

I think Michael Jackson's involvement is the biggest draw, but people are going to be especially interested when you throw in Diana and Richard Pryor and Lena Horne, three absolute legends [[four, counting Michael) in one movie. And I think aside from a minority of folks still feeling some type a way about Diana Ross' casting and some of the other questionable filming decisions, most of that 1970s controversy means nothing today, especially considering, as I mentioned before, that there is a whole generation of children who grew up with The Wiz and now that generation has children who are growing up with it.

Remember also that when the original movie was released in the 30s, nobody was screaming about it's greatness either. It wasn't until it was shown on television that The Wizard of Oz began to resonate with audiences. I would say The Wiz followed in it's footsteps in that way.

I feel had they had a different director, least one that knew how to produce film musicals, The Wiz would've been salvageable overall. But as noted, it's become a film classic that still plays on TV and people still buy its DVDs for. Clearly great things DID happen with the film: it brought MJ together with Quincy Jones and they ended up making history together.

[midnightman]

Odd man out here
I love it
watch it every year. Its funny as hell to us, especially the miss one scene...."What's a wiz ? Whats a wiz...Honey he is the ultimate ,,,!!!! and the splatter of the first witch and the toilet scene. The movie is a hoot and will live on better today than when it was made. Michael Jackson walking around and rolling his eyes at the lion has me dying with laughter. Diana Ross dancing in "Brand New Day " without a double is outstanding especially the cartwheels. I can feel them having a good time so yes I could feel a Brand new day. I can't remember the monkey with the bad breath and stank. Sorry the movie was hilarious to me.

You're not the odd man out. I actually DO like the film but the way the directing was, some scenes were shot too far especially the first Ease On Down sequence. How they gonna do all that choreography and the camera scales back. We see what the road is and all of that. That was one thing to used to really annoy me. Other than that, I felt everyone did play their roles right in a sense. I was always fixated on MJ though. He proved he had acting chops. Now if only he was allowed to do more films. :/

[khansperac]

Oddly enough that scaled back camera shot of Diana and Michael easing on down the road is an iconic image.

[midnightman]

Oddly enough that scaled back camera shot of Diana and Michael easing on down the road is an iconic image.

As it is. I understand it. But that used to annoy me when I first saw the film. It's like "you got one of the greatest dancers of all time in Michael Jackson and you scale the eff back!" LOL

[vgalindo]

I enjoyed The Wiz the first time I saw it in the theatre. But I really do believe they had the wrong director. The film was way too dark and the sets looked really cheap. And the look of Diana was all wrong. I really think they were trying to make her look too mature and plain looking. I hated her look. I can now barely watch the whole thing on DVD. some of the scenes are too long and they become boring. However The music, singing and performances are fantastic. It's a great movie for the big screen but not so much on TV.

[TheMotownManiac]

[QUOTE=RanRan79;463518]Jet Magazine was for many years a major source of African American news related to politics, life and entertainment. The magazine was highly respected in the community and for good reason as it spotlighted major issues affecting the Black community, issues that were often not reported on in other major news sources. It was also a great source for features on Motown artists from the 60s on, many of whom made the cover. I realize that everyone is entitled to their opinion, but there is no way I'm going to allow a equation between such an esteemed publication as Jet and that shitty ass rag called the National Enquirer stand without a counter viewpoint. I'm hoping you've mistaken the magazine you meant to mention. People Magazine perhaps?[/[QUOTE

You are absolutely right - it’s been so long since I saw an Enquirer, I forgot it was the type to run headlines like “Aliens Inhabit The Soul Of Jayne Mansfield” several of my buds got Jet so I saw it every week for about 15 years and while I took some of its editorial with a grain of salt, it was an important magazine. Every single black friend I had got Jet delivered every week to their homes. It WAS more like People, but sometimes they ran articles that seemed very close to press releases I had read. Been years since I’ve seen one - do they still print them?

[sansradio]

[QUOTE=RanRan79;463518]Jet Magazine was for many years a major source of African American news related to politics, life and entertainment. The magazine was highly respected in the community and for good reason as it spotlighted major issues affecting the Black community, issues that were often not reported on in other major news sources. It was also a great source for features on Motown artists from the 60s on, many of whom made the cover. I realize that everyone is entitled to their opinion, but there is no way I'm going to allow a equation between such an esteemed publication as Jet and that shitty ass rag called the National Enquirer stand without a counter viewpoint. I'm hoping you've mistaken the magazine you meant to mention. People Magazine perhaps?[/[QUOTE

You are absolutely right - it’s been so long since I saw an Enquirer, I forgot it was the type to run headlines like “Aliens Inhabit The Soul Of Jayne Mansfield” several of my buds got Jet so I saw it every week for about 15 years and while I took some of its editorial with a grain of salt, it was an important magazine. Every single black friend I had got Jet delivered every week to their homes. It WAS more like People, but sometimes they ran articles that seemed very close to press releases I had read. Been years since I’ve seen one - do they still print them?

Jet is currently digital only. RanRan and you are right; although some of its subject matter was decidedly fluffy, for decades it was the only national source of African-American weekly news and, as such, tremendously important.

[Jaap]

The "failure" of The Wiz [[an enjoyable film that could have been much better) is indeed mostly because of some choices made by the director Sidney Lumet. For a musical, the direction is way too detached from the performances, particularly because of the overuse of long shots. But perhaps even more important, the film is too damn serious, best exemplified by Diana Ross's performance [[but also by the others). Although I understand the criticism that Ross was too old, a much bigger problem is that Lumet didn't let Diana Ross be Diana Ross. Mahogany is far from a cinematic masterpiece, but the fun of the film lies in the vibrant performance by Ross; she literally has pizzazz [[as shown by the scene in which she tells Brian that he needs pizzazz!). That's totally absent in The Wiz. I think Donald Bogle summed it up nicely in his pivotal book on black actors in American film [[Toms, Coons, Mulattoes, Mammies, & Bucks): "As for Ross, she was much too hip and sophisticated for the timid little dodo she's playing. Here is a woman who rose to fame during her days as the lead singer with The Supremes as well as in her first two films by having such drive and daring that she always looked as if she could do anything. When she turns weepy and whiny, you want to shake some sense into her. Audiences have always both loved and hated her aggressiveness. But a nonassertive Diana Ross is not Diana Ross at all" [[p. 265).

[midnightman]

Sooooo true, Jaap! So true. I always wondered how Diana REALLY felt about filming The Wiz. I can imagine Sidney yelling obscenities at her and all of that. I know that she had injured her cornea during a scene because Sidney made her look into the light too long in one of the scenes.

[thommg]

Sooooo true, Jaap! So true. I always wondered how Diana REALLY felt about filming The Wiz. I can imagine Sidney yelling obscenities at her and all of that. I know that she had injured her cornea during a scene because Sidney made her look into the light too long in one of the scenes.

That would be the scene with the big Wiz head. Talk about unimaginative! Diana does have a sound stage named for her at Kaufman-Astoria Studios in Astoria, NY because The Wiz brought filming back to those stages. I walked by the plaque one day, never even knowing it was there!

[Coppelia-Birdsong]

I think an interesting performance would be Diana playing Dorothy as a very shy, awkward, lonely, childlike young woman who has been repressed so long she keeps all her drive inside. The Wiz could have been Dorothy transforming from Dorothy and into Miss Ross by the end. It would be amazing to go from socially stunted, shy, stammering womanchild to diva Diana who takes no stuff off nobody.