The Miracles.......Are Back?

[marv2]

I don't know what to make of this. I don't know who any of these guys are, but here is a recent appearance on local Detroit television:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZr_MOd2zi0

[lakeside]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEF1o6u5O9M
This claims to be The Miracles 'Revue' in this performance?

[marv2]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEF1o6u5O9M
This claims to be The Miracles 'Revue' in this performance?

Oh so they are a "Revue"? There is a clip of their lead singer, Mark Scott performing onstage with Bobby and Claudette and a couple of other guys none of whom are in this clip here. Looks like he made up a completely new group.

[lakeside]

https://www.facebook.com/TheMiraclesfeatMarkscott/
The facebook page states 'Legacy' of The Miracles? Pick one?!

[marv2]

https://www.facebook.com/TheMiraclesfeatMarkscott/
The facebook page states 'Legacy' of The Miracles? Pick one?!

"Pick one?" Exactly! LOL!!!!! Thank you Lakeside!

[marv2]

Here they are with Ruben Studdard joining them towards the midway point:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uj69Tvz3hzQ

[arr&bee]

THE MIRACLES ARE-SMOKEY-RONNIE-CLAUDETTE-PETE-BOBBY-BILLY-MARV[not you this time marv,the other one,hehe]NAMED TARPLIN...DOES THIS GROUP HAVE PERMISSION FROM WHOEVER OWNS THE NAME TO PERFORM UNDER IT?

[marv2]

THE MIRACLES ARE-SMOKEY-RONNIE-CLAUDETTE-PETE-BOBBY-BILLY-MARV[not you this time marv,the other one,hehe]NAMED TARPLIN...DOES THIS GROUP HAVE PERMISSION FROM WHOEVER OWNS THE NAME TO PERFORM UNDER IT?

I agree. Since I grew up with the Miracles music, it's hard for me to consider others as "The Miracles". I am guessing that since Mark Scott once performed with Bobby and he claims Bobby Rogers personally selected him to be a "Miracle", that he has permission from Claudette and/or Bobby's estate. Then again, he's billing his group as a "Revue" so who knows?

[marv2]

Here are the "Other Miracles" with Sidney Justin on lead:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-grJaqQxoL8

[Luciano]

Here they are with Ruben Studdard joining them towards the midway point:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uj69Tvz3hzQ

I am embarrassed I kind of like that. Sorry! As a tribute band I thought they were good. Marv interesting topic:)

[Circa 1824]

Mark Scott's lousy lead vocal.

[marv2]

I am embarrassed I kind of like that. Sorry! As a tribute band I thought they were good. Marv interesting topic:)

No, Luciano don't be embarrassed. I was not saying that they weren't good. I just always question why talented people like Mark Scott doesn't come up with his own original group name and act. I liked when they sang with Ruben Studdard here, etc. The same thing with some of those ladies that called themselves "The Marvelettes".

[Luciano]

No, Luciano don't be embarrassed. I was not saying that they weren't good. I just always question why talented people like Mark Scott doesn't come up with his own original group name and act. I liked when they sang with Ruben Studdard here, etc. The same thing with some of those ladies that called themselves "The Marvelettes".

Thanks Marv!

I understand what you mean. When they are just billing themselves as the artist it's wrong. It's like they are stealing these peoples lives. IMO I don't think Mr. Scott would be performing at this place by not using the Miracles name.

[marv2]

Thanks Marv!

I understand what you mean. When they are just billing themselves as the artist it's wrong. It's like they are stealing these peoples lives. IMO I don't think Mr. Scott would be performing at this place by not using the Miracles name.

That's pretty much what it is "identity theft". As a person that knew who the individual members of the Miracles were, it's hard watching these guys in my age group pretending to be the Miracles. Same thing with the Spinners even though Henry as an original member is still in the group.

[lakeside]

Is this akin to Karaan Ragland singing back up for Mary Wilson and then, by osmosis,
became 'Supreme'?

[Luciano]

That's pretty much what it is "identity theft". As a person that knew who the individual members of the Miracles were, it's hard watching these guys in my age group pretending to be the Miracles. Same thing with the Spinners even though Henry as an original member is still in the group.

Marv that is the perfect description "Identity Theft".

[marv2]

Is this akin to Karaan Ragland singing back up for Mary Wilson and then, by osmosis,
became 'Supreme'?

Kaaren Ragland is using trickery when it comes to her claims of being a "Supreme". Mary's concert promoters billed her act as "Mary Wilson and the Supremes" in 1978. Her publicity pictures showed her with Kaaren Ragland and Karen Jackson in a way that some assumed they were a new group of Supremes when in reality they were just her back up singers [[similar to how Tina Turner used back up singers in her solo act, but they were not introduced as the "Ikettes"). Mary has had around 30-40 singers back her up over the years. None of them went around calling themselves "The Supremes" except this one, Kaaren.

[marv2]

Marv that is the perfect description "Identity Theft".

I can sit and enjoy them, but I prefer if they used a different name. They guys that made those classic songs, records are no longer here with the exception of Smokey, Claudette and Billy Griffin. It just does not seem right and fair.

[arr&bee]

I never thought the day would come when someone would try to pass themselves off as the miracles,some folks have no scruples.

[midnightman]

Doesn't Smokey own the Miracles name now or something? I feel if this group actually went as "The Miracles", he or Claudette can put a stop to that so they weren't slick adding the other stuff since it would stop Smokey and Claudette or the estates of the late Miracles from suing them.

[marv2]

Doesn't Smokey own the Miracles name now or something? I feel if this group actually went as "The Miracles", he or Claudette can put a stop to that so they weren't slick adding the other stuff since it would stop Smokey and Claudette or the estates of the late Miracles from suing them.

Smokey left the Miracles in 1972. I don't believe he owns the name.

[lockhartgary]

Have any of these group ever included a female member?

[marv2]

Have any of these group ever included a female member?


Mark Scott's group of Miracles has or had a female member judging by the pics on the Facebook page [[see link above).

[BayouMotownMan]

Kaaren Ragland is using trickery when it comes to her claims of being a "Supreme". Mary's concert promoters billed her act as "Mary Wilson and the Supremes" in 1978. Her publicity pictures showed her with Kaaren Ragland and Karen Jackson in a way that some assumed they were a new group of Supremes when in reality they were just her back up singers [[similar to how Tina Turner used back up singers in her solo act, but they were not introduced as the "Ikettes"). Mary has had around 30-40 singers back her up over the years. None of them went around calling themselves "The Supremes" except this one, Kaaren.

Mary did this to herself bud. She signed Raagland to The Supremes Inc, a company not supported by Motown thus making Raagland officially a Supreme according to Los Angeles district court. After Mary signed the name over to Berry Gordy in 1990, she attempted to sue Jean Terrell, Scherrie Payne and Lynda Laurence before attempting to sue Raagland over a name SHE DIDN'T OWN. She lost a fortune and even had to reimburse Raagland for legal fees.

[marv2]

Mary did this to herself bud. She signed Raagland to The Supremes Inc, a company not supported by Motown thus making Raagland officially a Supreme according to Los Angeles district court. After Mary signed the name over to Berry Gordy in 1990, she attempted to sue Jean Terrell, Scherrie Payne and Lynda Laurence before attempting to sue Raagland over a name SHE DIDN'T OWN. She lost a fortune and even had to reimburse Raagland for legal fees.

You have things more than a little mixed up!

Signing Kaaren RAGLAND to The Supremes, Inc did not make her an "Official Supreme" when Mary only owned 50% of the name at that time in 1977.
She was never signed to Motown Records as a recording artist or anything else which would include being a member of the Supremes.

Mary Wilson did not sign the name over to Berry Gordy in 1990. The name was sold, along with Motown in 1988 to MCA and Boston Ventures. In 1990 Berry presented Mary with the proceeds from her 50% ownership in the name. The value of the name had to be determined which is what made it such a big deal.

Suing "The FLOS" had nothing to do with anything that went on before. She sued them [[Jean Terrell was not in the group at that time when the lawsuit was initiated in 1996, but she had to be included because she was a member when CD's were being issued with the name "The Supremes" on them and in some cases images of Mary, Diane and Flo on the covers). That should have been Universal doing the suing, but since no one else was fighting it, Mary took it upon herself to do so. She was unsuccessful because she did not own the trademark in the U.S. Lynda Laurence had the name trademarked for use overseas without consulting Mary or anyone else remotely involved in the Supremes history.

Mary sued The Sounds of the Supremes, including Kaaren Ragland because Ragland continued to use the story that she was an actual "Supreme" that had worked with Original Supreme, Mary Wilson off and on for almost 10 years. There was no fortune lost. Kaaren was awarded around $440,000. That came from printed materials [[not the Supremes, Inc contract), that made it appear that Ragland was a member of the Supremes in 1978!

Now what were we talking about? Oh yeah, The Miracles!

[luke]

Well said Marv. And the Flos do not use the name Supremes now even in Europe. Mary tried to keep the Supremes legacy authentic and deserves much praise for that. You are so right. Universal Motown should have paid for all that. PS can you imagine if Andy White [[drummer for one record), Pete Best and Stu Suthcliffe had toured as the Beatles!!

[marv2]

Well said Marv. And the Flos do not use the name Supremes now even in Europe. Mary tried to keep the Supremes legacy authentic and deserves much praise for that. You are so right. Universal Motown should have paid for all that. PS can you imagine if Andy White [[drummer for one record), Pete Best and Stu Suthcliffe has toured as the Beatles!!


Thanks Luke and exactly! Mary was trying to do the right thing and some like this guy tries to make it into something wrong. It was wrong for Lynda to do what she did and then claim she doesn't know how "The Supremes" got put on their CD's, when that didn't work, she went with the line "We have no control over anything including our voices or our music/recordings".

Kaaren went to law school paid for by the money she earned working for Mary. Mary hired her, trained her, dressed her and let her be seen in front of HER audiences and this was how Kaaren paid her back! Andy White.....one of the Beatles? LOL!!!! Great point Luke.

[BayouMotownMan]

You have things more than a little mixed up!

Signing Kaaren RAGLAND to The Supremes, Inc did not make her an "Official Supreme" when Mary only owned 50% of the name at that time in 1977.
She was never signed to Motown Records as a recording artist or anything else which would include being a member of the Supremes.

Mary Wilson did not sign the name over to Berry Gordy in 1990. The name was sold, along with Motown in 1988 to MCA and Boston Ventures. In 1990 Berry presented Mary with the proceeds from her 50% ownership in the name. The value of the name had to be determined which is what made it such a big deal.

Suing "The FLOS" had nothing to do with anything that went on before. She sued them [[Jean Terrell was not in the group at that time when the lawsuit was initiated in 1996, but she had to be included because she was a member when CD's were being issued with the name "The Supremes" on them and in some cases images of Mary, Diane and Flo on the covers). That should have been Universal doing the suing, but since no one else was fighting it, Mary took it upon herself to do so. She was unsuccessful because she did not own the trademark in the U.S. Lynda Laurence had the name trademarked for use overseas without consulting Mary or anyone else remotely involved in the Supremes history.

Mary sued The Sounds of the Supremes, including Kaaren Ragland because Ragland continued to use the story that she was an actual "Supreme" that had worked with Original Supreme, Mary Wilson off and on for almost 10 years. There was no fortune lost. Kaaren was awarded around $440,000. That came from printed materials [[not the Supremes, Inc contract), that made it appear that Ragland was a member of the Supremes in 1978!

Now what were we talking about? Oh yeah, The Miracles!

Biased in Mary's favor as always.

A judge in LA ruled in favor of Raagland saying that because Mary signed her to a contract with Supremes Inc, which Raagland had with her in court, and since Mary had a partial ownership at that time in the name Supremes, that Raagland could indeed use the name for promotional purposes. This ruling actually changed history, with Susaye Greene not officially the last Supreme anymore. The judge ruled in Raagland's favor. Motown could have contested this, but Motown was now Universal and they don't care who calls themselves Supremes if it sells CDs.

Mary had already lost big with Jean, Scherrie and Lynda. But those ladies were classy and did not demand Mary reimburse their legal fees. Raagland was different. Mary tried to settle for a lesser amount out of course but Raagland hauled her back into court and won. Shortly before going back to court Mary became ill and even announced she had a heart attack. WHen that got out and future bookings were in danger of canceling, she recanted the heart attack and called it something else. She had to work hard to pay Raagland for a suit she had no chance of winning, just as she had no chance of winning against Jean, Scherrie and Lynda.

[marv2]

Biased in Mary's favor as always.

A judge in LA ruled in favor of Raagland saying that because Mary signed her to a contract with Supremes Inc, which Raagland had with her in court, and since Mary had a partial ownership at that time in the name Supremes, that Raagland could indeed use the name for promotional purposes. This ruling actually changed history, with Susaye Greene not officially the last Supreme anymore. The judge ruled in Raagland's favor. Motown could have contested this, but Motown was now Universal and they don't care who calls themselves Supremes if it sells CDs.

Mary had already lost big with Jean, Scherrie and Lynda. But those ladies were classy and did not demand Mary reimburse their legal fees. Raagland was different. Mary tried to settle for a lesser amount out of course but Raagland hauled her back into court and won. Shortly before going back to court Mary became ill and even announced she had a heart attack. WHen that got out and future bookings were in danger of canceling, she recanted the heart attack and called it something else. She had to work hard to pay Raagland for a suit she had no chance of winning, just as she had no chance of winning against Jean, Scherrie and Lynda.

Look, I am not going to mess up this Miracles thread with all of this old Supremes business. All that stuff you just posted is wrong [[incorrect!). Mary could have handled the whole thing with Kaaren RAGLAND much more simply. All she had to do is march 5 people into court to prove that Kaaren was never a member of the Supremes. Berry Gordy, Smokey Robinson, Stevie Wonder [[since he knew all the Supremes starting with Barbara Martin) and any two of the remaining legitimate former Supremes. Kaaren would have been toast. She is toast because after 29 years of playing this game, she is still completely unknown.

[BayouMotownMan]

Look, I am not going to mess up this Miracles thread with all of this old Supremes business. All that stuff you just posted is wrong [[incorrect!). Mary could have handled the whole thing with Kaaren RAGLAND much more simply. All she had to do is march 5 people into court to prove that Kaaren was never a member of the Supremes. Berry Gordy, Smokey Robinson, Stevie Wonder [[since he knew all the Supremes starting with Barbara Martin) and any two of the remaining legitimate former Supremes. Kaaren would have been toast. She is toast because after 29 years of playing this game, she is still completely unknown.


ROFLMAO, funniest think you've ever written. NONE of those people would have done that for Mary. Mary gave Raagland a contract. Legal and binding.

[marv2]

ROFLMAO, funniest think you've ever written. NONE of those people would have done that for Mary. Mary gave Raagland a contract. Legal and binding.

No, the funniest thing is that you just finally proved to me that you know absolutely nothing that is real about the relationships, friendships between of any of the people I mentioned. You actually have no clue and I am very happy to keep it that way! hehehehehehehehe!

Mary contracted with Karen Jackson and members of her band too, none of them went out and lied to the public claiming they were a "Supreme".

[BayouMotownMan]

No you're the one who knows nothing. Gordy wanted Mary out of his life and has had little to do with her since. Robinson and Wonder are devoted to BG, not Mary Wilson. Common knowledge

[marv2]

No you're the one who knows nothing. Gordy wanted Mary out of his life and has had little to do with her since. Robinson and Wonder are devoted to BG, not Mary Wilson. Common knowledge

Amazing! LOL!!!!!

[marv2]

Now how about the REAL DEAL........


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9vU8tqzuJY

[midnightman]

Anyways, I think some of the Miracles' estates own the name Miracles. Goodness knows if they had used the name "Miracles", Pete Moore and/or Bobby Rogers' estates would've protested this. But since it has "Sounds of...", makes sense to let them perform as such. Long as they ain't promoted like they're actually the Miracles.

[REDHOT]

I like this group, The Miracles Review featuring Mark Scott,they sound great.

[marv2]

I like this group, The Miracles Review featuring Mark Scott,they sound great.

What do you think of Sidney Justin's Miracles group?

[arr&bee]

Both of these fakes are a disgrace to the miracles name and should be banned from even saying[review]..smokey,claudette they making ya'll look bad.

[marv2]

Both of these fakes are a disgrace to the miracles name and should be banned from even saying[review]..smokey,claudette they making ya'll look bad.

Maybe if they had Billy leading them, but I don't know. I too strongly remember the original members Pete, Bobby, Claudette, Smokey and Ronnie too well I guess.

[marv2]

A classic Miracles performance right here!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfQqbWmN7E0

[Roberta75]

Look, I am not going to mess up this Miracles thread with all of this old Supremes business. All that stuff you just posted is wrong [[incorrect!). Mary could have handled the whole thing with Kaaren RAGLAND much more simply. All she had to do is march 5 people into court to prove that Kaaren was never a member of the Supremes. Berry Gordy, Smokey Robinson, Stevie Wonder [[since he knew all the Supremes starting with Barbara Martin) and any two of the remaining legitimate former Supremes. Kaaren would have been toast. She is toast because after 29 years of playing this game, she is still completely unknown.

LMAO like Mary Wilson had $440,000 just laying around to pay Kaaren Ragland. If all Mary had to do was march 5 people into court to win but didnt then Kaaren deserved the $440,000. What a load of hogwash. LOLOLOLOL. I gotta email this thread to Mary Wilson. LOLOLOLOL

[midnightman]

Both of these fakes are a disgrace to the miracles name and should be banned from even saying[review]..smokey,claudette they making ya'll look bad.

Funny thing was prior to the death of Bobby, you'd never hear of any Miracles reviews. How did this group sneak up? Weird...

[arr&bee]

Why can't these groups just say during their set that they would like to do a tribute to a legendary group,don't use the name if you have no connection.

[marv2]

Why can't these groups just say during their set that they would like to do a tribute to a legendary group,don't use the name if you have no connection.

I think that would be the best answer and it would give them more credibility.

[midnightman]

Why can't these groups just say during their set that they would like to do a tribute to a legendary group,don't use the name if you have no connection.

Ego and money. Simple as that.