What Held the Contours Back?

[RanRan79]

It's been said that the Contours were too R&B for the direction Gordy wanted his label to go, but you would think with the group giving Motown one of it's biggest hits in the early days [[and of course today "Do You Love Me" is one of the label's and the era's most iconic tunes) that there would have been more attention paid to them in the wake of that success. Did the group kind of float along because they were as wild off stage as on? Were they viewed as more of a novelty act than anything, particularly based on their recordings those first few years? Or are the Contours just another example of Motown's inability to concentrate on every artist? They stuck around for a long time. I kind of think of them as the male version of the Marvelettes, except for all the talk about how the Marvelettes were pushed aside, they seemed to have gotten more of Motown's support over the years than the Contours ever did.

Btw, my favorite Contours song is a tie between "Shake Sherry" and "Whole Lotta Woman".

[robb_k]

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I think [[1), that lack of a great lead singer [[until Joe Stubbs and Dennis Edwards came - but stayed too short a time), and [[2) typecasting them by giving them mostly novelty tunes. I think their best recordings were Joe Stubbs and Dennis Edwards vocals of non-novelty-central core Motown-style songs: "It's So Hard Being A Loser" and "Just A Little Misunderstanding". The group could still show off their great dancing ability, but the music and singing was so much better. If they had featured Dennis Edwards for as long as they did Billy Gordon, they'd have been major stars.

[WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance]

I love the Contours, especially with Billy Gordon. There is something about Billy's rough-hewn style that is so rough and yet sincere in a way. Billy wasn't a great singer by any stretch, but when given something more than a dance tune, he did surprisingly well at delivering the goods. Hearing him on "That Day When She Needed Me" is a revelation in more ways than one. It revealed that Billy could do more than just dance tunes, even with his street-wise delivery. It also revealed the reason why The Contours probably would never become more than a one-trick attraction. From what I've read, Berry wasn't keen on the song because he felt it was taking the group away from their "bag" or identity. They had been doing well with the up-tempo dance tunes and that's where he wanted them to stay as it was probably that identity the public knew already.

The group was only signed to Motown after Jackie Wilson intervened on their behalf, so they weren't a high priority. "Do You Love Me" was a fluke and so Motown ran that formula until it stopped reaping dividends. Then, there was dissention in the group as they felt Motown was not treating them fairly, so much of the original group left, including Billy Gordon. Then Billy returned to Motown and replacements were brought in. Once Motown started hitting its stride, I feel that producers tried to revamp the group into a more "traditional" Motown vocal group with "Just A Little Misunderstanding" especially after tunes like Smokey's novelty number "First I Look At The Purse" and the dance tune "Can You Jerk Like Me" failed to really hit.

By this time though, it was too late. Motown didn't really need to worry about The Contours as they had The Tempts, Miracles and Four Tops covering all the bases. The Contours still had name recognition but little else.

RanRan, you stated how you view them as the male version of The Marvelettes, but that group had a resurgence with the smash success of "Don't Mess With Bill." That really gave the group a second wind. I have a Motown concert program from '66 and it surprised me that they were given the entire back page with a fantastic in-performance photo montage. All the other concert programs I've found usually feature a montage of various Motown groups, so it's all the more impressive to see The Marvelettes getting that sort of distinction. Also, for all the talk of the group not getting Motown's attention, they did receive regular album and singles releases all the way into 1970, so that says something for the group. The Contours only had that one album from when "Do You Love Me" was a surprise hit.

I really don't feel Motown ever intended to build up The Contours, no matter who was singing lead. They served a purpose, got some mileage out of a few dance tunes that served them well even til this day, but that was all they would get.

[RanRan79]

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I think [[1), that lack of a great lead singer [[until Joe Stubbs and Dennis Edwards came - but stayed too short a time), and [[2) typecasting them by giving them mostly novelty tunes. I think their best recordings were Joe Stubbs and Dennis Edwards vocals of non-novelty-central core Motown-style songs: "It's So Hard Being A Loser" and "Just A Little Misunderstanding". The group could still show off their great dancing ability, but the music and singing was so much better. If they had featured Dennis Edwards for as long as they did Billy Gordon, they'd have been major stars.

Oh yeah, my two favorites are from that early period, but it's clear that the "better" period started around 66. They had left the novelty cuts behind and doing more serious work.

[RanRan79]

RanRan, you stated how you view them as the male version of The Marvelettes, but that group had a resurgence with the smash success of "Don't Mess With Bill." That really gave the group a second wind.

Yes, that's what I'm referring to. If you notice the trajectory of both groups are similar. The Marvelettes burst onto the scene with a major hit. "Do You Love Me" wasn't the Contours first single but it was a huge success very early in their Motown career. Then they were seemingly typecast as a novelty act. I think to some degree the Marvelettes were typecast as a teenybopping girl group for many years [[the outdated "ettes" maybe having something to do with it?) in a way that Martha and the Vandellas and the Supremes were not. But the Marvelettes fortunes turned- after a mediocre success period- when Smokey got behind them, and of course they remained with the label until the 70s [[obviously at the end in name only as Wanda was the last remaining member). The Contours started getting better recordings during the same period but the one thing they don't seem to have had that the Marvelettes lucked up on, was that power head behind them. But up until that 65/66 point, I think their career directions were similar.

[StuBass1]

I should offer clarification and also why internet posting just before bedtime is not always a good idea LOL. Midway through my last post on The Contours, I correctly stated that continual personnel changes played a big role in their not becoming a major act for Motown and compared them to The Falcons. I then somehow thought we were talking about The Originals [[and their not having become a major Motown success either)...and spoke of how they were used extensively as background singers...That was The Originals I was referring to...just a bit of conversational confusion which also makes me a prime candidate for politics...Correction acknowledged...

[Boogiedown]

Sounds like it might be fair to say then that as Motown groups go, The Contours remained a little rough around the edges.

[[Joke!!!🤡😛)

[bradsupremes]

It didn’t help the group was a revolving door of members. I couldn’t tell you who was who because the line-ups changed so much.

[marv2]

It didn’t help the group was a revolving door of members. I couldn’t tell you who was who because the line-ups changed so much.

They did change a lot, but after the re-release of "Do You Love Me?" from "Dirty Dancing" in 1987, several of the original members regrouped and held steady for a number of years. Then they split into 2 separate groups with , Sylvester Potts forming another group, and Joe Billingslea still heading up the resurrected "Original" group.

[marv2]

These gentlemen have all been members of the Contours at one time or another:

Joe Billingslea
Al Chisholm
Gary Grier
Lyall Hoggart
Dwjuan Brock
Billy Gordon
Billy Hoggs
Billy Rollins
Hubert Johnson
Leroy Fair
Sylvester Potts
Council Gay
Jerry Green
Alvin English
Joe Stubbs
Dennis Edwards
Arthur Hinson
Darrell Nunlee
Martin Upshire
C. Autry Hatcher
Odell Jones
Charles Davis
Benny Reeves

[RanRan79]

It didn’t help the group was a revolving door of members. I couldn’t tell you who was who because the line-ups changed so much.

I don't think the revolving door had an effect on the public, but it stands to reason that the label wouldn't be keen to put a high priority on the Contours if they couldn't keep a stable lineup.

[robb_k]

I don't think the revolving door had an effect on the public, but it stands to reason that the label wouldn't be keen to put a high priority on the Contours if they couldn't keep a stable lineup.
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I think it did, in the sense that The Contours never had a great singer, to bring out your emotions and tug at your heart strings, except for their oh so brief period with Dennis Edwards on lead. If Dennis had been with them from the beginning, they wouldn't have sung mostly novelty dance cuts all those years. They'd have had a more varied repertoire, and sung many more memorable songs like "It's So Hard Being A Loser". The could still have sung fast dance songs, like "Baby, Hit And Run".

Imagine Dennis Edwards with The Contours for 10 years, singing a repertoire of songs like The Four Tops, Temptations, Miracles, Monitors, Spinners, etc. Songs that get you emotionally involved [[like "Just Ask The Lonely", "What Becomes of the Brokenhearted", "It's So Hard Being A Loser", "Truly Yours", "I Wish It Would Rain", etc.). "Do You Love Me", "Shake Sherry", "Can You Jerk Like Me" were fun to dance to, but don't create much emotional involvement on their own, and even if they bring back great memories, they're probably not as strong as they'd be, if they were sung very emotionally by the lead singer.

The Contours had an early ballad, "Funny". But that was sung so poorly, that it's only remembered for all its flat notes. Billy Gordon did a decent job singing Smokey's mellow "That Day When She Needed Me". But that was only one song, and he did an ordinary good job - not extra memorable. And, they didn't do more like that. Disco stars didn't last in popularity more than 5-7 years because their material was mainly just good for dancing, but didn't tear at the listeners' heart strings.

Nobody who's heard Levi Stubbs' "Ask The Lonely" will ever forget it. Groups like The Temptations, Four Tops, Gladys Knight & The Pips, Martha & The Vandellas, The Spinners, The Monitors, The Isley Brothers, The Supremes, The later Marvelettes, The Velvelettes can be like your best friend. The Contours are like a "similar interest friend. You hang with them when you want to do fast dancing. The more versatile groups with super singers are good for just about any time and whatever mood you want.

[arr&bee]

Do you love me was written for the temps,but gordy couldn't fine them so he had the contours record it.

[robb_k]

Do you love me was written for the temps,but Gordy couldn't fine them so he had the contours record it.
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Why not? He was able to fine his contracted musicians for moonlighting! :cool:

Lucky Contours. That was their big break. What if The Temptations sang it, and it was THEIR hit? Would THEY have ended up being typecast as the novelty dance group? - And we'd never have heard "My Girl", and "Since I Lost My Baby", and the rest of their sweet and mellow songs??? :mad: A disturbing thought.

[RanRan79]

I think it did, in the sense that The Contours never had a great singer, to bring out your emotions and tug at your heart strings,

I think that's a separate issue from the revolving door. I agree that the lack of a captivating lead singer[[s) may have been a factor in the group not moving far beyond "Do You Love Me" in popularity, but for a group whose individual members are still barely remembered, I don't think the changing lineup had an effect on the public, certainly not to the degree that it probably had an effect on Gordy and company.

But I'm in total agreement that the fortunes of the group change entirely with Dennis Edwards leading them early on. A pity that he joined so late. Not a pity that he joined the Tempts.

[RanRan79]

Lucky Contours. That was their big break. What if The Temptations sang it, and it was THEIR hit? Would THEY have ended up being typecast as the novelty dance group? - And we'd never have heard "My Girl", and "Since I Lost My Baby", and the rest of their sweet and mellow songs??? :mad: A disturbing thought.

I'm guessing Paul would've gotten the lead on "Do You Love Me". It's hard to hear anyone but the Contours doing it. I don't think they would've been typecast. The Contours were a group that could be pigeonholed. The Tempts were in a league of their own. Motown wouldn't have denied that, evidenced by the fact that the label hung in with the Tempts flop after flop for so long. But the thought of never having a "Since I Lost My Baby" or any of the classic Tempts cuts is a "bigly" disturbing thought.

[TomatoTom123]

"First I Look At The Purse" always seems like a Motown classic to me. I feel like it should have been a bigger hit for the group. "Baby Hit And Run" and "Just A Little Misunderstanding" are fantastic and sound like big hits to me too. Maybe it just wasn't meant to be. So there's your incredibly definitive answer RanRan :p

[RanRan79]

"First I Look At The Purse" always seems like a Motown classic to me. I feel like it should have been a bigger hit for the group. "Baby Hit And Run" and "Just A Little Misunderstanding" are fantastic and sound like big hits to me too. Maybe it just wasn't meant to be. So there's your incredibly definitive answer RanRan :p

Thanks Tom. If only you had answered the question first, it would've saved everyone else a lot of time and trouble.:rolleyes:

[jboy88]

Another idea of what could of been! What if David never got kicked out of the Temptations? Would Dennis had cut all those “Psychedelic Soul” hits with the Contours instead? Would THEY have won Motown it’s first Grammy with “Cloud Nine”?

[TomatoTom123]

Thanks Tom. If only you had answered the question first, it would've saved everyone else a lot of time and trouble.:rolleyes:

I know Ran. But sometimes I have to let these other fools have a go before I obliterate each and every thread with my immense knowledge.