Ric Tic 113 [[Fantastic Four) - Did It Ever Exist?

[144man]

Question
What do the catalog numbers for the following Detroit labels have in common?:

Check-mate 1013
Golden World GW 13
Impact 1013
Prodigal P 613
Revilot RV 213
Wingate WG 013

Answer
No records were ever issued for the above since numbers ending in "13" were considered to be unlucky.

However, Don't Forget the Motor City lists the Fantastic Four's "Can't Stop Looking for My Baby [[Parts 1 & 2)" as Ric Tic RT113 with the description "unreleased". In view of the above, I wonder what documented evidence there is that release of Ric Tic RT 113 was ever planned.

[woodward]

This is absolutely fantastic research and it makes perfect sense. Can't Stop Looking for My Baby was actually issued as Part 1 only on RT 113 b/w Just the Lonely. Thank you for taking an interest in these labels as they certainly do not get the attention that they deserve on the Motown Forum.

[motownjohnny]

Woodward, what evidence do you have to support your comment that "Can't Stop Looking For My Baby" was actually issued as Part 1 only on RT113 b/w "Just The Lonely"?

All the discographies etc. I've seen, including DFTMC, as confirmed by 144man, list RT-113 as "unissued". I think you may be confusing its intended "release" on RT-113 with the actual release of both these songs on RT-121 in September '66.

[woodward]

I mistyped. According to Heat Wave by David Bianco, RT 121 is listed as "Can't Stop Looking for My Baby" b/w "Just the Lonely." I got confused and referred to the wrong number. Sorry. But as I said, I am thrilled someone is taking an interest in these Eddie Wingate labels.

[robb_k]

14272
I saw several official Golden World/RicTic lists. ALL of them had unissued for RT 113. I did see several wants lists from major Detroit Soul collectors in the late 1960s and early 1970s which showed 113 as The Fantastic Four. But that 113 didn't list "Just The Lonely" as the B Side. I'm sure that there was a rumour that "Can't Stop looking For My Baby" had originally been slated for earlier release than RT 121. So, there came a rumour that 113 must have been the original slated number. But that was "fan fiction". Detroit R&B/Soul indie labels had a tradition and policy of avoiding release # 13. I sincerely doubt that Ed Wingate would have avoid 13 on every one of his labels before and after except Ric Tic. That makes no sense.

Interesting that Berry Gordy's Motown labels never avoided #13, and neither did Gwen Gordy's Anna, Tri-Phi, and Harvey, but Billy Davis' [[partner in Anna, and Berry's writing partner) Did avoid it in his CheckMate Records. Ollie McLaughlin didn't avoid 13 in his labels. And Mike Hanks avoided 13 in his MAH's Records, but it was used in his partnership labels, Wheelsville USA and Premium Stuff. Magic City avoided 13, and so did Palmer. Don Davis' Thelma Records used 113, but his Solid Hitbound labels avoided using 13s. Lupine, Chex and Twirl all used 13s.

Here's our own Ron Murphy's sales list from 1971, which has his writing atop Wingate's official typed ln-house release list. You can see that 113 was unassigned. The handwriting over it showing Fantastic Four-"Can't Stop Looking For My Baby" Parts 1&2 was written by me, based on what I had heard from people who had talked to people inside Golden World, who stated that that song was originally "slated" to be released earlier than RT 121 [[NOT that it WAS originally slated for RT 113). Collectors then "guessed" that it was originally slated for 113, as that was the only available earlier number, and its pressing plant number was in the 121000 series, while other RicTic numbers released at the same time[[just before and after) had numbers in the 125000 series, reflective of a few months later. Ron's own handwriting lists the numbers of each record he still had available, and the colours of the records' labels by number.
https://i.imgur.com/6Pk1MDl.jpg

[144man]

If "Can't Stop Looking for My Baby" was originally intended to be issued earlier than RT 121, even if it had been formerly allocated to a lower number, any such number could have been reallocated later to a different release.

In view of Robb K's post above, I think we can safely assume that not only was "Can't Stop Looking for My Baby" never scheduled to be released on Ric Tic 113, but also that no other release was ever planned to be issued on that number.

[robb_k]

If "Can't Stop Looking for My Baby" was originally intended to be issued earlier than RT 121, even if it had been formerly allocated to a lower number, any such number could have been reallocated later to a different release.

In view of Robb K's post above, I think we can safely assume that not only was "Can't Stop Looking for My Baby" never scheduled to be released on Ric Tic 113, but also that no other release was ever planned to be issued on that number.
14276
I agree, absolutely. There's never been any evidence that 113 was even slated for a release, and later cancelled. The rumours were likely just collectors' speculation.

[TomatoTom123]

I must have listened to this song before because it sounds very familiar to me. It also sounds fantastic. I forgot how good The Fantastic Four were. :)

[robb_k]

I must have listened to this song before because it sounds very familiar to me. It also sounds fantastic. I forgot how good The Fantastic Four were. :)
14278
It's my favourite song by The Fantastic Four.

[heikki]

Hi!

Somebody told me decades ago that the same goes for 13 x 2 = 26 -> RT 126, too.

Best regards
Heikki

[robb_k]

Hi!
Somebody told me decades ago that the same goes for 13 x 2 = 26 -> RT 126, too.
Best regards Heikki
Hi Heikki,
If what he told you were really true, then why would sister label, Golden World, release #26, a minor Detroit local hit, "Eenie, Meenie, Gypsaleenie"/"Please Don't Say We're Through" by The Debonairs? No, - I think the fear of bad luck only reared its superstitious head for numbers ending in "13". 126 may have just been a call-back, or just never pressed up for some unknown reason.

Bad News! I've had to cut my June/July trip to Scandinavia short, and I won't be able to visit Finland, after all. Booo!!! :mad: But, I hope to make that trip next year, as I plan to cut my work load down to about half, going into semi-retirement. So, I'll make it a point that I get to, at least, Helsinki, Tampere, Espoo, and Turku, if not also farther north, at least to Oulu. I have a long-time pen friend in Lappland, I hope to visit, if it can be done. :cool:

[mysterysinger]

What is interesting is that back in the day, "The Whole World Is a Stage" was released on the UK Tamla Motown "16 Big Hits Volume 7" album. I believe the first Fantastic Four track on a UK Tamla Motown LP. Incidentally, Amazon being what it is, there is a copy of "The Lost Motown Album" CD selling at £317.54. Where do they think of these prices?

[heikki]

Hi Robb!

I'll be here. I won't run away. Just let me know, when you have the fixed dates. To visit the real Lapland you have to go a lot further to the north than Oulu.

Best regards
Heikki

[robb_k]

Hi Robb!

I'll be here. I won't run away. Just let me know, when you have the fixed dates. To visit the real Lapland you have to go a lot further to the north than Oulu.

Best regards
Heikki
14281
Thanks, Heikki. I will do that.
Yes, I knew that Lappland is much farther north than Oulu. I was in The Norwegian portion of Lappland back in 1966.

[simon.millar]

For those who don't want to pay £300+ for this album it's still available from Ace @ http://www.acerecords.co.uk/the-lost-motown-album

[simon.millar]

Oops forgot to insert :D

[TomatoTom123]

I have no idea why a copy of their Lost Motown Album is priced at a ridiculous £300, as they're still selling at around £10 on Amazon and Discogs!!!!!

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lost-Motown-Album-Fantastic-Four/dp/B00XAB4ZRU

https://www.discogs.com/Fantastic-Four-The-Lost-Motown-Album/release/7293883

[motownjohnny]

TomatoTom, if you think £300 is a ridiculous price for a CD, then I dread to think what you'll make of this:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Meet-The-Supremes-RARE-1962-Motown-1st-Press-Stool-Cover-MT-606-NM-in-Shrink/323042054255?hash=item4b36ce906f:g:rMEAAOSwSPBacPE w

Unless of course you're the seller!

[TomatoTom123]

$5000? Totally reasonable. :p

[TomatoTom123]

The intro to this reminds me A LOT of The Temptations' "It's Growing" :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvdfaFO1xBM