The Case of the Alternates

[RanRan79]

Inspired by Danman's thread about the two versions of "That'll Be the Day", I wanted to discuss alternates [[or takes) of a song done by the same artist. The questions I'm asking is:

1) Which version do you prefer?
2) Why do you think one version was released over the other?
3) If the song in question was a single, do you think the unreleased version could've done as well or better than the single version released?

First up..."Since I Lost My Baby".

[RanRan79]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xsg7c0FF34

[RanRan79]

The alternate "Since I Lost My Baby".


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvfKwfAVBQQ

[RanRan79]

While I actually love both vocals, I think it's easy to see why the first version got the release. David's vocal is smoother, perhaps more pop radio friendly. I think he conveys a bit more the feeling that he lost his baby in the second one. But I think if the second one had been released as a single it would've done as well as the actual released version, maybe even done better r&b than the single.

[reese]

One alternate version that I really like is NO MORE TEARSTAINED MAKE UP by Martha and the Vandellas. The original version was released on their WATCHOUT! album and it is a very good track. The alternate version was found years later, I believe, on an album reel. The alternate version is much slower, which to me really lets Martha get into the lyrics. For me, it is my favorite version of the tune.

An alternate take that I don't like is the version of LOVE IS HERE AND NOW YOU'RE GONE that was released on the Supremes' boxed set in 2000. To my ears, Diana's vocal on it sounds weak, hoarse, and uninspired, as if she hadn't gotten a handle on the song yet. I can see why it wasn't released. Given that it was the latest in a string of hits, even with the weak vocal, it probably would have been a hit. But for me, it pales considerably to Diana's vocal on the hit single which is very strong, and has Diana's usual flair with a lyric.

As an aside, I will also say that I was disappointed that the alternate take of LOVE IS HERE... was included on the boxed set instead of the hit version. I can't understand why a weak version [[IMO) would be used.

[reese]

Sorry that I went on to discuss two other songs instead of SINCE I LOST MY BABY. I just re-read the original post. I thought we were discussing examples in general. :D

In the case of SINCE I LOST MY BABY, I prefer the hit single vocal to the alternate take. On the alternate, David seems more urgent, right out of the box, and throughout this version. I like how the vocal on the hit single is more subtle, which makes his urgent plea of "Oh determination is fading fast" after the bridge much more stirring.

[RanRan79]

One alternate version that I really like is NO MORE TEARSTAINED MAKE UP by Martha and the Vandellas. The original version was released on their WATCHOUT! album and it is a very good track. The alternate version was found years later, I believe, on an album reel. The alternate version is much slower, which to me really lets Martha really get into the lyrics. For me, it is my favorite version of the tune.

An alternate take that I don't like is the version of LOVE IS HERE AND NOW YOU'RE GONE that was released on their boxed set. To my ears, Diana's vocal on it sounds weak, hoarse, and uninspired, as if she hadn't gotten a handle on the son yet. I can see why it wasn't released. Given that it was the latest in a string of hits, even with the weak vocal, it probably would have been a hit. But for me, it pales considerably to Diana's vocal on the hit single which is very strong, and has Diana's usual flair with a lyric.

As an aside, I will also say that I was disappointed that the alternate take of LOVE IS HERE... was included on the boxed set instead of the hit version. I can't understand why a weak version [[IMO) would be used.

Oh yes, definitely prefer the slower version of "Tearstained"! The album version is nice, but not a fav of mine. But I really love the groove of the alternate and, as you say, Martha really gets into the lyric better.

I also agree about "Love Is Here". The box set version is good on it's own, and I guess it would've probably done as well as a single, but Diana does sound weak and uninspired. Weak kind of works because of the subject material, but it loses any attraction because there isn't much Ross in it.

[RanRan79]

Martha and the Vandellas "No More Tearstained Makeup"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AApy2joXhs&t=0s

[RanRan79]

"No More Tearstained Makeup" alternate.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoXQ5GGLnxs

[RanRan79]

"Love Is Here and Now You're Gone" alternate version.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EltcLfrkIR4

[RanRan79]

Sorry that I went on to discuss two other songs instead of SINCE I LOST MY BABY. I just re-read the original post. I thought we were discussing examples in general. :D

In the case of SINCE I LOST MY BABY, I prefer the hit single vocal to the alternate take. On the alternate, David seems more urgent, right out of the box, and throughout this version. I like how the vocal on the hit single is more subtle, which makes his urgent plea of "Oh determination is fading fast" after the bridge much more stirring.

Oh please discuss any examples you want. I was originally concentrating on singles with alternate versions, but feel free to include album tracks or whatever alternates you wish, not just the ones already mentioned. Just hoping to get some music talk going as opposed to drama [[argument) threads.

Yes, subtle is a great way to describe the vocal approach on "Since I Lost My Baby" original. Both showcase some of David's finest singing though.

[RanRan79]

What about these?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5gt4DAprwE

[RanRan79]

"I'm Livin In Shame" alternate.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrBbum7AI_8

[RanRan79]

"I'm Livin In Shame", in the single version, is a song I really can't stand. There's really nothing about it I find appealing. But for some reason the alternate version works a little better for me. I think Diana does a stronger vocal on it and the backing track seems to have a bit more "funkiness" to it. I think had it been released instead of the single version, it may have done even better than it did. But it's still not a song I make a point of playing.

[Motown Eddie]

Good topic RanRan. It's a tough call since I think that both versions are good but, I vote for the original version of "Since I Lost My Baby" over the alternate take. I feel that David's vocal sounds more hurt on the first version [[and it's the one that I've listening to for decades).

[Motown Eddie]

"No More Tearstained Makeup" alternate.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoXQ5GGLnxs

I don't care for the alternate take of Martha's "No More Tearstained Makeup" [[it's too slow paced for me). Motown made the right call in putting the version that we know & love on the Watchout! LP.

[danman869]

"I'm Livin In Shame" alternate.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrBbum7AI_8

I never loathed the released version of “I’m Livin’ In Shame,” but when the alternate first surface several years ago when US collectors seemed to finally discover its’ presence on the Japan GH in Quad album, I fell in love with the song. The lyrics are still a little wonky and depressing, but maybe the key change brightened things a bit for the better. I remember that the piano seemed to be more prominent in the alternate and gave it a bit more funk and that bridge with the strings?! Perhaps a tad “hokey-pop” in early 1969, but I loved them—and with the “bonus” notes! Play me that alternate any day, but the original...meh, it’s ok to listen to.

[danman869]

I liked hearing the different, slower approach to the Vandellas’ “No More Tearstained Make-Up,” but there was something about it that, even in 1966, felt dated. I liked the “sneaky,” tip-toe-like intro on the released version and think it sounds more slow-danceable!

[danman869]

On “Since I Lost My Baby,” I think both versions are fine. Perhaps Ruffin was a bit more straight forward with his delivery on the released version [[I believe someone mentioned/implied it being more pop radio-friendly) and he seemed to sort of stretch out and give his delivery a little more soul on the alternate. I suppose either would’ve worked, but the song was still good with both, IMO.

[blackguy69]

Would you include jimmy Mack in this conversation? The original 63-64 version was good but the reworked 67 version is my fav.

[danman869]

"Love Is Here and Now You're Gone" alternate version.

I totally considered this to be a very early take. A scratch vocal, perhaps. As though she’d practiced it at the piano a few times and then Brian and Lamont said, “let’s try one on tape,” and...here we are. She’s just not there with it yet. To me, this is strictly candy for the fans. It’s not a serious, alternate take...but the fans love hearing something different once in a while!

Now THIS is a total flub, totally not for public consumption, “take two”-type version of LIHANYG. TOTAL candy! Eat it up, laugh, enjoy it, and wonder what else is out there!


https://youtu.be/hkGBRJsj8Hg

[RanRan79]

Good topic RanRan. It's a tough call since I think that both versions are good but, I vote for the original version of "Since I Lost My Baby" over the alternate take. I feel that David's vocal sounds more hurt on the first version [[and it's the one that I've listening to for decades).

Thanks Eddie. I guess...well no guess about it...it all comes down to interpretation. I love these discussions because I get to see how everyone else arrives at their viewpoint. To me the second version sounded more like David was hurting. Seemed to be more pain in the vocals. On other hand, I also think the released version sounds more like a guy who is hurt about the situation but also hopeful.

[RanRan79]

I never loathed the released version of “I’m Livin’ In Shame,” but when the alternate first surface several years ago when US collectors seemed to finally discover its’ presence on the Japan GH in Quad album, I fell in love with the song. The lyrics are still a little wonky and depressing, but maybe the key change brightened things a bit for the better. I remember that the piano seemed to be more prominent in the alternate and gave it a bit more funk and that bridge with the strings?! Perhaps a tad “hokey-pop” in early 1969, but I loved them—and with the “bonus” notes! Play me that alternate any day, but the original...meh, it’s ok to listen to.

Yes, love the bridge with the strings. And I do think the piano is more prominent, which is why it's more appealing to me. [[I love a good piano work!)

I know the "Love Is Here" flub version was first released on one of those Japanese quad albums, but I didn't know about "Shame". I wonder how these got released to Japan and not anywhere else [[until the vault compilations)?

[RanRan79]

I totally considered this to be a very early take. A scratch vocal, perhaps. As though she’d practiced it at the piano a few times and then Brian and Lamont said, “let’s try one on tape,” and...here we are. She’s just not there with it yet. To me, this is strictly candy for the fans. It’s not a serious, alternate take...but the fans love hearing something different once in a while!

Now THIS is a total flub, totally not for public consumption, “take two”-type version of LIHANYG. TOTAL candy! Eat it up, laugh, enjoy it, and wonder what else is out there!


https://youtu.be/hkGBRJsj8Hg

I always figured the flub version was the scratch vocal, demo, or whatever. I figured the box set version was at least considered for eventual release, until HDH either got a better vocal from Diana [[Flo and Mary I think had ever so slightly different vocals on the flub version than the other versions) or revisited the song and picked the approach they thought was best.

[rovereab]

I think the alternate version of Ain't Nothing Like The Real Thing by Marvin and Tammi is excellent. Different pace, different vocals and in some way more engaging especially their banter to each other. Such chemistry there!

https://youtu.be/MTwKjsJB7lo

[reese]

I think the alternate version of Ain't Nothing Like The Real Thing by Marvin and Tammi is excellent. Different pace, different vocals and in some way more engaging especially their banter to each other. Such chemistry there!

https://youtu.be/MTwKjsJB7lo

This is another instance where I prefer the hit single version. Even though I've often lamented how short the hit version is, it still achieves a lot of feeling in those few minutes.

By comparison, this alternate version is too long, IMO. The extra repeating of the chorus between the verses and the bridge drags it down. It doesn't sound like a hit to me. I believe it was Ashford and Simpson's first production so I can understand their trying out different grooves. But I wouldn't be surprised to learn that they sent this one to Quality Control and was told to cut it down.

[RanRan79]

"Aint Nothing Like the Real Thing" has never been one of my favorite Marvin and Tammi cuts, but I do prefer the alternate to the released version, by a very small margin. I agree that it drags a bit [[the alternate), but I also think their vocal interplay is better on the alternate. With that being said, I don't think it would have ever been a hit. Maybe it would've charted for a bit, but I don't hear the alternate going far at all. The released version had hit stamped all over it, whether I care for it or not.;)

[RanRan79]

Would you include jimmy Mack in this conversation? The original 63-64 version was good but the reworked 67 version is my fav.

Absolutely fits this discussion! And I agree BG, the original is good but the hit version is much better. I don't think the album version would've made a lot of noise. Maybe top 40 r&b on the name Martha and the Vandellas. The 1967 version was fantastic.

[RanRan79]

What about this alternate?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91I3PUPHvEg

[RanRan79]

I love the released version by the Marvelettes. It's one of my absolute favorite Marvelettes songs. But this alternate sounds so stale and watered down. It was obvious there was more work to do to make this a classic.

[danman869]

The "Destination: Anywhere" alternate sounds like an early version, too--before they added some additional overdubs. If you'd never heard the released version before, you might find this version to be nice, but...when you heard the version with the handclaps?! OMG. It's CRYING OUT for some kind of additional accompaniment and the handclaps are so simple and effective. This alternate sounds a lot to me like just the basic rhythm track, but without...the hot horns, strings, or handclaps. Yes, Wanda's vocal may be from a different take, but it's not too far off the released version [[if not the same). Going back to what I said about the Supremes alternates above, this Marvelettes alternate/unreleased is simply CANDY. Good candy, but simply something to excite the fans--and there's nothing wrong with that.

[bradsupremes]

The second version of "I Can't Dance To That Music You're Playin'" has a better track than the released version. Plus Martha sings the actual melody on the refrain. I prefer this over the single.

I know people love the first version of "Mother Dear," but I found the third version to be a hot track especially the full version released on A' Go-Go Expanded Edition. It's a completely different take on the song that makes it fresh. I found the second version to be lack something a bit and I can see why it was canned. I'm puzzled as to why the third version didn't find a home on A' Go-Go or Sing HDH. I think HDH really believed this song could have been a hit thus why they cut it so many times.

[lockhartgary]

Temptations - You've Got to Earn It released version


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oC53RRRiVj4

[lockhartgary]

Temptations - You've Got to Earn It Alternate version
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uk0Ip26AqV8

I prefer the released version...it has more oomph.

[RanRan79]

The second version of "I Can't Dance To That Music You're Playin'" has a better track than the released version. Plus Martha sings the actual melody on the refrain. I prefer this over the single.

I know people love the first version of "Mother Dear," but I found the third version to be a hot track especially the full version released on A' Go-Go Expanded Edition. It's a completely different take on the song that makes it fresh. I found the second version to be lack something a bit and I can see why it was canned. I'm puzzled as to why the third version didn't find a home on A' Go-Go or Sing HDH. I think HDH really believed this song could have been a hit thus why they cut it so many times.

In version 1 of "I Can't Dance", I love the track and Martha singing the chorus. In version 2 I love the tone of Martha's singing. I wish that Deke had found a way to take everything that's good about version 1 and version 2 and created a third version. Both versions had hit potential IMO, but I don't think the unreleased version would've done any better than the single.

As for "Mother Dear", I've said in this forum previously how the More Hits version just doesn't do anything for me. I think had it been released as a single it probably would've been a big hit, but I don't hear number 1. When the 2000 box set came out I was most excited about an alternate of "Buttered Popcorn" and "People". I was unprepared for the 1966 version of "Mother Dear" being the previously unreleased song I would play the most. I loved it. The second version released on the More Hits expanded I like much better than the original album version, but clearly HDH was taking the time to work on the song for possible single release as it doesn't sound like something that was ready for a single or album release. But the 1966 version mix on the A GoGo expanded I love even more than the box set version. In fact I never play the box set version anymore, it's A Go Go expanded version from here on out. Definitely a missed opportunity for a hit. "Itchin" should've been released after "Symphony" peaked, then "My World", then "Mother Dear 66" and then "You Can't Hurry Love". At the very least "Mother" should've ended up on A Go Go.

[RanRan79]

Temptations - You've Got to Earn It Alternate version
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uk0Ip26AqV8

I prefer the released version...it has more oomph.

Now see I prefer the alternate because I think it has more oomph than the released version. As an A side I think the alternate would've made more noise than the released version did.

[RanRan79]

"Your Loss, My Gain", eventually to become "You Lost the Sweetest Boy". Not a lot of difference in the two songs other than some lyric changes. My guess is that it probably would've had the same impact on the public as "Sweetest Boy".


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mYLR4JPi7Y

[RanRan79]

Anybody prefer this early version to the hit?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYU_gZQt-tI

[RanRan79]

This would go on to be reworked into "Distant Lover" and I love it. I've never been a fan of the studio version of "Distant Lover", although I dig the single version from MG Live and I love the 3 Degrees cover of it. I dig Marvin's vocal on the demo soooo much.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSDlSke6ZSc

[lockhartgary]

Anybody prefer this early version to the hit?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYU_gZQt-tI

I definitely prefer the hit version. This version really sounds like some sort of pop-folk hybrid.