Gladys and wanda friction in the marvelettes

[franjoy56]

It is well known there was friction in the marvelettes camp between both lead singers well before gladys exited t group in 67 as mentioned by Catherine in the marvelettes book and on tvone and i imagine it ran deeper when smokey stopped working with Gladys or stopped releasing a sides with her as lead. Are there any motown insiders who care to share.

[sup_fan]

I don’t know personally if Gladys was upset that she wasn’t getting the A side singles. She was still recording quite a bit of tracks and they were on the albums. Frankly they weren’t doing all that much recording and so I’d assume they were thankful for just not being dropped from the label.

According to the book Gladys was more put off by Wanda’s attitude that their early stuff wasn’t good. That change of heart and Wanda’s decline seem to have more to do w the problems. The two of them had always been sharing leads so I guess that area was less of a sore spot

[franjoy56]

The marvelettes were doing quite well during the time wanda took over. As lead. Dont mess w bill. Hunter gets captured young and in love. I doubt motown would have dropped the marvelettes especially w smokey writing for them Theres s story around on fb that wanda devalued gladys contributions as lead singer and there were argments over wanda beig more significant to the group in which catherie did not agree. Things got worse after gladys left as catherne documents on tvone

[midnightman]

Well on Unsung, Wanda was pegged as the troublemaker in the group.

[franjoy56]

That probably sums it up. Gladys was very significant to t marvelettes and t originator of t sound no matter how small.

[jobeterob]

Every business has frictions; more seems to be made of them in a book or documentary and that’s in order to sell the product

[franjoy56]

Both lead singers gave the marvelettes a beautiful body of work and neither can be devalued. I love gladys early work in particular

[luke]

I agree. Gladys had a soulful intensity and passion that was somewhat unusual at Motown and she really “sold” the songs.

[marv2]

It is well known there was friction in the marvelettes camp between both lead singers well before gladys exited t group in 67 as mentioned by Catherine in the marvelettes book and on tvone and i imagine it ran deeper when smokey stopped working with Gladys or stopped releasing a sides with her as lead. Are there any motown insiders who care to share.

Yeah! Smokey took the lead from Gladys and gave it to Wanda when he started writing and producing for them. He said some truly rude and unmentionable things right to Gladys' face and she never got over it and I don't think she ever forgave him. In a few words....It was awful! LOL!

[marv2]

The marvelettes were doing quite well during the time wanda took over. As lead. Dont mess w bill. Hunter gets captured young and in love. I doubt motown would have dropped the marvelettes especially w smokey writing for them Theres s story around on fb that wanda devalued gladys contributions as lead singer and there were argments over wanda beig more significant to the group in which catherie did not agree. Things got worse after gladys left as catherne documents on tvone

Things really started to get worse when Smokey took over as their producer. He would not allow Gladys to sing lead on the singles, only Wanda.

[marv2]

That probably sums it up. Gladys was very significant to t marvelettes and t originator of t sound no matter how small.

Gladys was significant and essential to the group. To me all of them were.

[marv2]

Every business has frictions; more seems to be made of them in a book or documentary and that’s in order to sell the product

No that's not true. They didn't even tell where source of the "frictions" came from in any book. So it was not used to sell the product. In fact, in most books about Motown [[save for Miss Ray's book), they were all pretty tame and did not tell all the uglies that really went on at Motown in Detroit.

[marv2]

I agree. Gladys had a soulful intensity and passion that was somewhat unusual at Motown and she really “sold” the songs.

Gladys was the sound of the Marvelettes, along with Kat, Wanda and Georgianna up to and around the mid 60s. Some of the producers did not take her seriously because she was so young and it did not help that she/they were from the burbs.......

[franjoy56]

Im sorry to hear about smokeys treatment of gladys what nerve. No wonder gladys was upset in a 1991 interview when she said that smokey robinson was t very one to sell the marvelettes name over a lost bet fot payment and at that time gladys was back on the road performing and t only marvelette on the road in america. Wanda was forced bsck on t recording scene in england with gladys on the ian levine deal with many other motown acts for a small pittence

[sup_fan]

I tend to prefer more of Gladys' vocals to wanda's. She was a warmth and sincerity and is quite versatile w her leads. really talented. makes you wonder how she would have done with more and broader material

Not stunned to hear she and smokey didn't get along [[assuming that rumor is true). Not that I think Smokey is a bad guy but there are always people that just don't click. perhaps they just didn't get along. given the popularity of their two groups in the early years, I'd assume they were often sharing the bill or working together at the same locations. And given their age, they could have easily done some immature or adolescent things.

Did smokey ever produce much on the girls prior to the mid-60s and Don't Mess With Bill? maybe part of the reason for that is he and Gladys didn't like each other. totally speculating

[motony]

Smokey wrote & produced "As Long As I Know He's Mine" which featured both Gladys[[with most of the lead) and Wanda # 3 R&B 1963. It was the follow up to "Locking Up My Heart". Then Smokey wrote & produced "You're My Remedy" which Wanda sang lead, 1964.Wanda sang lead on both "I'll Keep Holding On" and "Danger,Heartbreak Dead Ahead" which Mickey Stevenson produced BEFORE "Don't Mess With Bill" . I don't think Gladys had a problem with Wanda being on those leads.

[reese]

Smokey wrote & produced "As Long As I Know He's Mine" which featured both Gladys[[with most of the lead) and Wanda # 3 R&B 1963. It was the follow up to "Locking Up My Heart". Then Smokey wrote & produced "You're My Remedy" which Wanda sang lead, 1964.Wanda sang lead on both "I'll Keep Holding On" and "Danger,Heartbreak Dead Ahead" which Mickey Stevenson produced BEFORE "Don't Mess With Bill" . I don't think Gladys had a problem with Wanda being on those leads.

Smokey also wrote and produced HE'S A GOOD GUY [[YES HE IS) with Gladys on lead, which was the follow-up to AS LONG AS I KNOW HE'S MINE, and hit #18 R&B.

He also wrote and produced the album track I THINK I CAN CHANGE YOU, with Gladys on lead.

[sup_fan]

that's right!! I forgot about Remedy!

[midnightman]

Wait, was Smoke's treatment of Gladys confirmed by any of the Marvelettes members???

I'm sure Smoke produced songs featuring Gladys on lead so I don't think that's true at all.

[franjoy56]

In a 1991 interview with bill randhl gladys said smokey sold the marvelettes name in a crap game as payment and that caused her problems when larry marshak tried to stop her from performing because he owned t name.

[franjoy56]

No singles featuring gladys wete released after too many fish in the sea that was her last a side. And i believe keep off no trespasing would made a great single with plenty of pop airplay

[marv2]

Wait, was Smoke's treatment of Gladys confirmed by any of the Marvelettes members???

I'm sure Smoke produced songs featuring Gladys on lead so I don't think that's true at all.

Well that's too bad because it is true! At the time, everyone thought he was just showing favoritism towards Wanda because she was married to Bobby, his group mate and friend. That wasn't it. The stuff he said to Gladys would have gotten him put in the hospital under different circumstances and with a different type of person. Gladys just wanted to sing so she asked him why was he taking more leads from her and giving them to Wanda.

Now if you think the folks in Detroit were going to write down everything they did and said on paper you're umm......mistaken LOL!!!!

It really does not matter if you believe it or not because it is the truth and it did happen years ago. Fran is right about the interview in the 90s. There were other interviews Gladys did along with Miss Ray and I am not getting into all of that.

[marv2]

In a 1991 interview with bill randhl gladys said smokey sold the marvelettes name in a crap game as payment and that caused her problems when larry marshak tried to stop her from performing because he owned t name.

Yep Fran! That also happened, but he's not going to believe you! LOL!!!

[marv2]

No singles featuring gladys wete released after too many fish in the sea that was her last a side. And i believe keep off no trespasing would made a great single with plenty of pop airplay

They did not give that song a chance. Remember, Smokey was a Vice President at Motown at that time.

[marv2]

Check it out:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwsVC5pyE9Q

[franjoy56]

Thanks marv for posting and that track was recorded after too many fish. And that was a great track featured on t pink 1966 album

[marv2]

Thanks marv for posting and that track was recorded after too many fish. And that was a great track featured on t pink 1966 album

You're most welcome Fran. I have the pink album in my collection, a great album. I wonder much it is worth now. LOL!

[franjoy56]

I had it once now i have both forever the compkete albums vol 1 and 2

[marv2]

I had it once now i have both forever the compkete albums vol 1 and 2

I have to get back to my collecting. It's been a while

[franjoy56]

What was t a side of this. I love gladys range with wandas falsetto reminds me of going down for third time diana and flo

[midnightman]

Lol @ Marv...

So defensive, chile. :rolleyes:

What was with that "it doesn't matter" situation? LOL

But yeah, Smoke should've gave Gladys more leads on singles. It's what made the Marvelettes sizzle. And before you say "but not everyone appears the way they are" in regards to Smokey, yes I know that, but him dissing Gladys like he's a jock at high school just seems... out of character lol

Like I've never seen any other Motown act being dragged by Smokey like that...

Then again, the Marvelettes always thought Motown dissed them as outsiders because they weren't from the streets of Detroit, but in some "country" town like Inkster.

[RanRan79]

Lol @ Marv...

So defensive, chile. :rolleyes:

What was with that "it doesn't matter" situation? LOL

But yeah, Smoke should've gave Gladys more leads on singles. It's what made the Marvelettes sizzle. And before you say "but not everyone appears the way they are" in regards to Smokey, yes I know that, but him dissing Gladys like he's a jock at high school just seems... out of character lol

Like I've never seen any other Motown act being dragged by Smokey like that...

Then again, the Marvelettes always thought Motown dissed them as outsiders because they weren't from the streets of Detroit, but in some "country" town like Inkster.

I'm reminded of some very wise words that it seems like so many people refuse to hold their hands up and receive: believe half of what you see and none of what you hear. This story of Smokey gambling the name away is untrue. Marshak was a dirty, lowdown piece of trash in the industry who managed to steal what he wanted. The reason Kat and Gladys' estate were able to retain the right to the name is because Motown never surrendered the name. It was always legally Motown's and the surviving members of the Marvelettes. Marshak was arguing that because there was a period of time in which the Marvelettes were no longer a group, that he could trademark the name and put together his own Marvelettes. The law said "no way Jose" and that's why his ass lost the case. Had Smokey or anyone else signed the name over to Marshak, he would have had a legal right to the name. Motown nor it's representatives- including Smokey- ever did such a thing. Again, that's why Larry Marshak lost his suit.

[RanRan79]

Wait, was Smoke's treatment of Gladys confirmed by any of the Marvelettes members???

I'm sure Smoke produced songs featuring Gladys on lead so I don't think that's true at all.

You have to ask for receipts around here. Some folks will tell you everybody at Motown greeted each other by sniffing each other's asses the way dogs do, and you're supposed to believe it because they said so. Bullshit.

[midnightman]

I'm reminded of some very wise words that it seems like so many people refuse to hold their hands up and receive: believe half of what you see and none of what you hear. This story of Smokey gambling the name away is untrue. Marshak was a dirty, lowdown piece of trash in the industry who managed to steal what he wanted. The reason Kat and Gladys' estate were able to retain the right to the name is because Motown never surrendered the name. It was always legally Motown's and the surviving members of the Marvelettes. Marshak was arguing that because there was a period of time in which the Marvelettes were no longer a group, that he could trademark the name and put together his own Marvelettes. The law said "no way Jose" and that's why his ass lost the case. Had Smokey or anyone else signed the name over to Marshak, he would have had a legal right to the name. Motown nor it's representatives- including Smokey- ever did such a thing. Again, that's why Larry Marshak lost his suit.

I knew it. Shame on Marv shaming Smokey this way...

I can't believe I used to believe the story about Smokey. Glad to know he wasn't that sh***y.

[midnightman]

You have to ask for receipts around here. Some folks will tell you everybody at Motown greeted each other by sniffing each other's asses the way dogs do, and you're supposed to believe it because they said so. Bullshit.

Basically! I don't get how some folks claim they love Motown and then sh*t on the artists who helped to make Motown what it was!

[RanRan79]

I knew it. Shame on Marv shaming Smokey this way...

I can't believe I used to believe the story about Smokey. Glad to know he wasn't that sh***y.

And I always thought it was Gordy who supposedly gambled the name away, which would make more sense considering that [[a) he was a notorious gambler, and [[b) only he would have had any power to give the name away.

[RanRan79]

Basically! I don't get how some folks claim they love Motown and then sh*t on the artists who helped to make Motown what it was!

Some folks get off on gossip. And that's not singling out anyone in this forum, that's life in the real world. The rumor mill really starts churning in middle school, it gets worse in high school, and then when folks are grown you expect it to subside but it seems to get even worse. I know some old 75, 80, 85 year old women who make Marv look like Little Orphan Annie. Them heifers can gos-sip!! Tell you all about who was doing what and when. They didn't see none of it, of course. Just what they heard. But they'll tell you what it was, just like if they saw it themselves...even though they didn't. Go figure.

The history of Motown is important. And you can't tell it's history without sometimes getting into the personal conflicts that arise between the people involved, especially when it directly affects the Motown story. And surely any conflict between Smoke and Gladys could have had an effect on the music and the business. And as someone pointed out earlier, conflicts do happen. I'm seeing people repeating this Gladys vs Smokey anecdote from Gladys' perspective but not Smokey's. Lets say he did say something "rude and unmentionable". Did he wake up that morning and decide today is the day he's going to say something "rude and unmentionable" to Gladys Horton today? Or was he provoked? It's hard for me to imagine Gladys Horton provoking someone in that manner, of course, but she was human just like anyone else. She was young just like everyone else. When you're young you say stupid shit, you speak without thinking. Keeping it real can sometimes go real wrong.

But until someone produces a source for Gladys' claim that Smokey was mean to her and bumped her from lead singer status, once again I'm filing this story under "rumor" and returning to the music.

[RanRan79]

As for the two women as lead singers, I prefer Gladys as lead until about 1965 when Wanda really found her footing as a vocalist. Still loved Gladys' voice, but I think I love Wanda's more at that point. Marketing wise, I think Wanda had the more ear catching voice at that point. And it had matured in a way that I don't think Gladys' had, and thus Wanda's voice was better suited for the more adult themed cuts that Smokey was crafting.

I still think it's a shame that Gladys didn't pursue a solo career in the 70s. We really missed out on hearing more great music with her voice.

[franjoy56]

I know what i heard from gladys voice and when i get time i am going to post word for word what she had to say about smokey robinson. I dont make up gossip. And gladys horton did not deserve the garbage she had to deal with.

[marv2]

Lol @ Marv...

So defensive, chile. :rolleyes:

What was with that "it doesn't matter" situation? LOL

But yeah, Smoke should've gave Gladys more leads on singles. It's what made the Marvelettes sizzle. And before you say "but not everyone appears the way they are" in regards to Smokey, yes I know that, but him dissing Gladys like he's a jock at high school just seems... out of character lol

Like I've never seen any other Motown act being dragged by Smokey like that...

Then again, the Marvelettes always thought Motown dissed them as outsiders because they weren't from the streets of Detroit, but in some "country" town like Inkster.

Be honest with yourself and admit you don't know Smokey's character. I just post facts and if you choose to not believe the truth, that is your business.

[franjoy56]

Smokey did a lot of great things for the music of motown and nothing against him as an artist and two sides to a story.

[marv2]

What was t a side of this. I love gladys range with wandas falsetto reminds me of going down for third time diana and flo

I will try to find out for you.

[marv2]

Smokey did a lot of great things for the music of motown and nothing against him as an artist and two sides to a story.

Exactly. I love Smokey, I love all of them, but like me they were not perfect!

[franjoy56]

exactly!!!!!!

[TomatoTom123]

I just post facts and if you choose to not believe the truth, that is your business.

Ahhh Marv, it's like your a caricature of yourself... :p

[midnightman]

"Two sides to a story".

Sure if there's a source...

You know what? I'm starting to think most of the stuff we get from Motown books about supposed drama was only halfway true. You know what it reminds me of? There is this YouTuber called Karceno and he has a channel called Karceno4Life.

If you look at his channel, some of his videos remind you of what has been spewed here on Soulful Detroit the last 16 years!!!

And mainly on many Motown forums since 2002 at least.

Gladys Horton, AFAIK, has never talked smack about Smokey in public. When the Marvelettes' name came into play, she blamed not Gordy or Smokey but LARRY MARSHAK!

That's the only guilty party. Any attempt to shame BG and Smokey for it is really lame, honestly.

Weird dynamics in Soulful Detroit that folks just accept gossip. Marv and Fran, y'all know better than that. :rolleyes:

Folks here are easily persuaded to believe the worst out of the most successful Motown acts in some attempt to "humanize" them. It reminds me of Lipstick Alley's constant defaming of Marvin Gaye for example because of rumors that were never confirmed. So why would we even believe the stuff we hear about Smokey or Berry or Michael Jackson or Diana or Marvin or whatever when they're at best exaggerated.

[RanRan79]

I know what i heard from gladys voice and when i get time i am going to post word for word what she had to say about smokey robinson. I dont make up gossip. And gladys horton did not deserve the garbage she had to deal with.

When you repeat something that you weren't present for and present it as fact, it's gossip. And while I will certainly appreciate you posting word for word what Gladys supposedly said, I'd much rather have you source where this information is coming from. Is this a television program? A written article perhaps? Who, what and where would be greatly appreciated.

With you even saying Gladys "did not deserve the garbage she had to deal with", it tells me that your entire opinion about the subject is operating from a place where only Gladys' side of things matter. You claim to have Gladys' side, but how can you make an informed opinion about the situation if you don't also have Smokey's side? This I don't understand.

The verdict in this case still stands: rumor.

[midnightman]

Like I said, folks rely on tea no matter how unsubstantiated it is because they wanna knock an icon down a peg. Since folks tried doing it to Diana, MJ and Marvin, now Smokey is next on the list. Just pathetic.

[marv2]

"Two sides to a story".

Sure if there's a source...

You know what? I'm starting to think most of the stuff we get from Motown books about supposed drama was only halfway true. You know what it reminds me of? There is this YouTuber called Karceno and he has a channel called Karceno4Life.

If you look at his channel, some of his videos remind you of what has been spewed here on Soulful Detroit the last 16 years!!!

And mainly on many Motown forums since 2002 at least.

Gladys Horton, AFAIK, has never talked smack about Smokey in public. When the Marvelettes' name came into play, she blamed not Gordy or Smokey but LARRY MARSHAK!

That's the only guilty party. Any attempt to shame BG and Smokey for it is really lame, honestly.

Weird dynamics in Soulful Detroit that folks just accept gossip. Marv and Fran, y'all know better than that. :rolleyes:

Folks here are easily persuaded to believe the worst out of the most successful Motown acts in some attempt to "humanize" them. It reminds me of Lipstick Alley's constant defaming of Marvin Gaye for example because of rumors that were never confirmed. So why would we even believe the stuff we hear about Smokey or Berry or Michael Jackson or Diana or Marvin or whatever when they're at best exaggerated.

The problem for you is that it is not gossip. What I say actually happened. Unless preface something "I can imagine that...." or "In my opinion...." or" Wouldn't it be funny if that happened......." So, like I said, it is not critical that you believe anything that read here.

[RanRan79]

"Two sides to a story". Sure if there's a source...You know what? I'm starting to think most of the stuff we get from Motown books about supposed drama was only halfway true...Weird dynamics in Soulful Detroit that folks just accept gossip. Folks here are easily persuaded to believe the worst out of the most successful Motown acts in some attempt to "humanize" them... So why would we even believe the stuff we hear about Smokey or Berry or Michael Jackson or Diana or Marvin or whatever when they're at best exaggerated.

This should actually be required reading for anyone first joining the forum because it is 100 percent true. But what we see in the forum is just a mirror of what goes on in the real world. This Motown gossip aint no different than church gossip, school gossip, job gossip, even family gossip. Some folks get their lives spreading stuff about other people. What's the point? Don't get me wrong, I'm not at all taking issue with this supposed Gladys admission that she and Smoke had a problem. If we're discussing the downfall of the group and friction between Smokey and Gladys is mentioned as a possible element, it has to be allowed a part of the conversation. But when people start talking about it like they actually saw and heard it all go down when they surely didn't, it gets a bit creepy. Add to that the noise about Smokey gambling the name away when he so clearly didn't. Why in the world would anyone just take someone's word for something even after they were so clearly wrong about something else? Gladys' mouth wasn't no prayer book and neither is any of ours. If it can't be backed up then it has to be placed in the gossip pile.

[motony]

Thanks Reese for reminding me about "He's A Good Guy[[Yes He Is)" one of my faves from that time, yes Smokey wrote & produced and Gladys did an exceptional job on lead. That record was big on Miami POP radio, I was surprised a few years later to find out it was not a big hit nationwide.

[RanRan79]

The problem for you is that it is not gossip. What I say actually happened. Unless preface something "I can imagine that...." or "In my opinion...." or" Wouldn't it be funny if that happened......." So, like I said, it is not critical that you believe anything that read here.

Were you there? Would you bet your life that it happened? You claimed Smokey gambled the name away and he didn't. Didn't you claim that actually happened too? I'm not understanding your issue here.

[RanRan79]

Like I said, folks rely on tea no matter how unsubstantiated it is because they wanna knock an icon down a peg. Since folks tried doing it to Diana, MJ and Marvin, now Smokey is next on the list. Just pathetic.

I have a feeling this Smokey stuff will die a quick death. They'll start on Stevie next, so get your popcorn ready. I'm guessing he said something mean and nasty to Mary Wilson and that's why "Bad Weather" tanked and the Supremes/Stevie project was abandoned.:rolleyes:

[franjoy56]

I just posted the interview where bill randle interviews gladys while she was in england in 92 she talks about gordy motown and smokey its in the thread titled gladys horton interview 1992 which was posted here interview 2011 listen for yourself in what she had t say.

[marv2]

I just posted the interview where bill randle interviews gladys while she was in england in 92 she talks about gordy motown and smokey its in the thread titled gladys horton interview 1992 which was posted here interview 2011 listen for yourself in what she had t say.

The 1990 interview she did on "Live in LA" with Tanya Hart, 1990 BET. along with Miss Raynoma Gordy Singleton, I have on VHS and unfortunately it is not on Youtube.

[marv2]

Were you there? Would you bet your life that it happened? You claimed Smokey gambled the name away and he didn't. Didn't you claim that actually happened too? I'm not understanding your issue here.

Were you there when they crucified My Lord? Yet you believe he died on the cross right?

[TomatoTom123]

Were you there when they crucified My Lord? Yet you believe he died on the cross right?

Oh damn, Marv's playing the Jesus card

[midnightman]

Y'all didn't listen to what Marvin Gaye said:

"People say believe half of what you see, son, and none of what you hear..."

Y'all are fools for clinging on to a 1990s interview because Gladys HEARD what was going on. I bet when she finally investigated it [[prior to her getting sick) that that wasn't the case and it was just Larry's doing.

You're not doing Gladys justice thinking what she heard is "proof" Smokey was being dirty with a name that was in only Motown's and the Marvelettes members' control to begin with.

Nice try though. "Don't mess with Bill" indeed.

[arr&bee]

Wow,nice to see some passion for the marvelettes[my favorite girl group]now i ain't getting into the who said this or that,all that i'll say is that perhaps smokey chose wanda's voice because he liked the sweeter softer side of a woman's voice..he recorded mary wells softer side where as berry wanted her to be mable john,he choose david for[my girl]maybe because he heard something more mellow in his delivery as opposed to the great paul williams who while great sang with more sadness in his voice,just my humble opinion..marvelettes and motown forever!

[midnightman]

Exactly Arr&Bee. But people wanna be about gossip... I'm just tired of it.
I mean if Smokey really hated Gladys, explain why he still produced songs that featured her on leads. Only difference was they weren't released as singles and Motown decided the Wanda leads were perfect for them at this point. It was a label decision after all!

[marv2]

Oh damn, Marv's playing the Jesus card

No, but I think I got out of him what I wanted. So continue on.

[marv2]

Wow,nice to see some passion for the marvelettes[my favorite girl group]now i ain't getting into the who said this or that,all that i'll say is that perhaps smokey chose wanda's voice because he liked the sweeter softer side of a woman's voice..he recorded mary wells softer side where as berry wanted her to be mable john,he choose david for[my girl]maybe because he heard something more mellow in his delivery as opposed to the great paul williams who while great sang with more sadness in his voice,just my humble opinion..marvelettes and motown forever!

Great post JAI! You go man!

[marv2]

Exactly Arr&Bee. But people wanna be about gossip... I'm just tired of it.
I mean if Smokey really hated Gladys, explain why he still produced songs that featured her on leads. Only difference was they weren't released as singles and Motown decided the Wanda leads were perfect for them at this point. It was a label decision after all!

Me, I just went by Fran's original question and answer with what I know to be true. I did not answer in order to please everyone reading this thread or to feed into their mythical, fantasy of Motown! Life is hard. LOL!!!!

[RanRan79]

I just posted the interview where bill randle interviews gladys while she was in england in 92 she talks about gordy motown and smokey its in the thread titled gladys horton interview 1992 which was posted here interview 2011 listen for yourself in what she had t say.

Thanks Fran. I don't have the time at the moment but I'll look at it before the day is over for sure and then comment.

[RanRan79]

Were you there when they crucified My Lord? Yet you believe he died on the cross right?

Did you just compare a faith and belief in Christ to believing in, um, you? Yes I believe He was crucified and not only died on the cross but arose three days later. That's never a point I will argue with anyone. Ever. But I do not believe that you are my Lord and Savior, therefore I will refer you to the Bible to read what is written about [[a) putting one's trust in man, and [[b) gossiping. You are a gossiper. Whether you're actually making up stuff or repeating gossip you heard aint my business. But I know there is never a day when I will just blindly trust a word you say. And I would never ask you to do the same of me. That's the difference between you and I.

Btw, you don't ever want to bring Jesus into a back and forth with me. That's a very poor decision on your part and a dialogue you will not be able to match me in. Good day to you sir.

[RanRan79]

Oh damn, Marv's playing the Jesus card

That ought to tell you what kind of leg he had to stand on in the first place. But he won't make that mistake again. That card game is officially over.

[RanRan79]

Me, I just went by Fran's original question and answer with what I know to be true.

And yet you still can't say how you know it's true. We both know you weren't there- you've told us countless times that you were a mere babe in the 1960s, unless of course you're lying about that- so how can you say with such certainty that something is true? I get it if you say "well I heard Smokey insulted Gladys...". But when you say you "know", you're implying that you were a first person witness because only someone present actually knows what happened during any given event. Anything else is speculation. And speculation is fine but call it what it is. You keep trying to present speculation as fact and then want to not only cop an attitude but get blasphemous when people call you on it.

[marv2]

And yet you still can't say how you know it's true. We both know you weren't there- you've told us countless times that you were a mere babe in the 1960s, unless of course you're lying about that- so how can you say with such certainty that something is true? I get it if you say "well I heard Smokey insulted Gladys...". But when you say you "know", you're implying that you were a first person witness because only someone present actually knows what happened during any given event. Anything else is speculation. And speculation is fine but call it what it is. You keep trying to present speculation as fact and then want to not only cop an attitude but get blasphemous when people call you on it.

Look, I know you cannot be this stupid. What little I can and do share comes from first person witnesses as you call them. Fran asked what happened and I told her what happened and it was not for the reasons some keep throwing around here. Same thing with all that crap discussed about Berry Gordy and Jean Terrell. If you cannot take these little tastes, these little morsels of truth, I don't know what to tell you. Either you've lived a very sheltered life far different from mine or the people that came from Motown or you are just pretending to be overwhelmed so much that you just cannot believe these things happened. As I said, you cannot be this stupid. Quit playing!

[marv2]

Did you just compare a faith and belief in Christ to believing in, um, you? Yes I believe He was crucified and not only died on the cross but arose three days later. That's never a point I will argue with anyone. Ever. But I do not believe that you are my Lord and Savior, therefore I will refer you to the Bible to read what is written about [[a) putting one's trust in man, and [[b) gossiping. You are a gossiper. Whether you're actually making up stuff or repeating gossip you heard aint my business. But I know there is never a day when I will just blindly trust a word you say. And I would never ask you to do the same of me. That's the difference between you and I.

Btw, you don't ever want to bring Jesus into a back and forth with me. That's a very poor decision on your part and a dialogue you will not be able to match me in. Good day to you sir.

But you weren't there...............

[midnightman]

How can a man born in the late '60s act like he knew that Gladys and Smokey were pulling hair?

That'll be like me, a mid-1980s baby and '90s child, claiming he knew Diana stood MJ up during their "fling" or whatever Lipstick Alley believes the next day...

Why didn't Smokey get a Motown Dearest book too? LOL

Two incidents that seem to come from gossip columns [[including Gladys Horton's own words) and we're supposed to believe William "Smokey" Robinson is a devil incarnate.

We got to exorcise Tony Turner from this forum.

[TomatoTom123]

No, but I think I got out of him what I wanted. So continue on.

Now wtf does that mean? LOL

[TomatoTom123]

Did you just compare a faith and belief in Christ to believing in, um, you?

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh LOL

[TomatoTom123]

What little I can and do share comes from first person witnesses as you call them.

Does that make it second hand knowledge then Marv? :)

[marv2]

Does that make it second hand knowledge then Marv? :)

Nope not really because I stick to exactly what I have been told by the principles involved.

[marv2]

Now wtf does that mean? LOL

He proved to me that he just likes to argue. I am not here for that. So unfortunately, I've had to now banish him to that netherworld of the "Ignored"! LOL! I really did not want to do that, but he left me no choice. He now joins my hall of fame of people that use to exist to me on the forum. LOL!!!

[midnightman]

Why is he going on about religion now???

LOL

[midnightman]

Now wtf does that mean? LOL

Whatever he thinks. I don't think even he knows. OH I get it. His real name is Karceno from YouTube.

"The Truth Behind The Time Smokey Robinson Stole Stevie Wonder's Shades During a Motortown Revue in New Jersey" by Marv2.

[midnightman]

I have a feeling this Smokey stuff will die a quick death. They'll start on Stevie next, so get your popcorn ready. I'm guessing he said something mean and nasty to Mary Wilson and that's why "Bad Weather" tanked and the Supremes/Stevie project was abandoned.:rolleyes:

"Stevie wanted Lynda to join and talked crap about Mary and that's why the Supremes and Stevie's project flopped". :rolleyes:

[RanRan79]

So as we all know I've been placed on Marv's ignore list. At first I was annoyed, not with Marv but at myself, because Marv ignored me before I could ignore him! Lol But then I thought this is a good thing. He has realized that he can't go toe to toe with me when he's talking nonsense. My words will shake him every time. So there's nothing for me to be annoyed about. I'm officially taking my blocked status as a compliment.

Now having said that, I will not allow his last words to me to stand alone without being addressed, whether he sneaks and reads it or not. Despite his accusation, I do not like to argue for arguments sake. What I do like to do is call people on their bullshit and Marv was talking bullshit. In a post somewhere above, he actually refuted my claim that he was spreading gossip by saying that what he says comes from what someone else told him. Even if you're an ally of Marv, you have to admit that this is just dumb and suggests that either he's an idiot [[which I don't believe is true) or he hopes that the people reading his words are idiots and don't know the difference between second hand gossip and first hand knowledge. I am not an idiot. I know the difference and as sure as I know that we're corresponding in the Motown forum of Soulful Detroit, I know that you can't claim first hand knowledge when the only knowledge you have is what someone else told you.

I'll wear my blocked status with pride. How does it look on me?:cool:

[RanRan79]

Does that make it second hand knowledge then Marv? :)

Yes Tom, that's exactly what it would be. Could you imagine Marv in court?

Lawyer: Marv, you're claiming today that Smokey Robinson insulted Gladys Horton, correct?

Marv: That is correct. He insulted her.

Lawyer: Do you know this to be fact?

Marv: Yes I do.

Lawyer: How?

Marv: Someone- I can't say who- told me.

Lawyer: Oh, so you don't know if this is true?

Marv: It's true.

Lawyer: But you don't know it's true.

Marv: Yes I do. Someone told me.

Lawyer: Objection. This is hearsay.

Marv: Look, no it isn't. I only tell facts and the fact is that someone- I can't say who- told me what Smokey said to Gladys. So I know all about it.

Lawyer: That's not first hand knowledge Marv.

Marv: Yes it is because I know first hand who told me. I can't say who.

Lawyer: Your honor I'm going home to kill myself, so no further questions for this witness.

Judge: Marv you may step down.

Marv: Mary Wilson rules!!!

[RanRan79]

Whatever he thinks. I don't think even he knows. OH I get it. His real name is Karceno from YouTube.

"The Truth Behind The Time Smokey Robinson Stole Stevie Wonder's Shades During a Motortown Revue in New Jersey" by Marv2.

Ha!!! And you know Marv's account would be that Diana Ross put Smokey up to it.

[TheMotownManiac]

I’ve been around Smokey a few times and he can be rude and arrogant - or charming [[if he wishes.)

‘’I’ve heard he had no use for Gladys as a singer, for whatever reason, but it is just heresay. I only repeat as fact if I saw it or was told by the person concerned.

[franjoy56]

Marv u got ur hands full w these haters. I believe smokey was not nice to gladys and in having something to do with no a singles being released on gladys after too many fish and according to cat claimed wanda was not reliable and begged gladys please dont leave. Gladys horton formed the marvelettes and restricting single relesses only to eanda who had great hits btw was just mean.

[midnightman]

Didn't Alexander O'Neal have a song for this type of stuff? MotownManiac just mentioned it lol

[marv2]

Marv u got ur hands full w these haters. I believe smokey was not nice to gladys and in having something to do with no a singles being released on gladys after too many fish and according to cat claimed wanda was not reliable and begged gladys please dont leave. Gladys horton formed the marvelettes and restricting single relesses only to eanda who had great hits btw was just mean.

Like Berry Gordy said, I've washed my hands of the haters! LOL! I had to put a few on ignore. Anyway, it was mean what was done to Gladys for personal reasons rather than professional ones. Gladys had the ability to sell records as proved by the Marvelettes earlier hits. To abruptly stop issuing singles with her on the lead was like she had left the group when she had not. Wanda did have some major issues. I met her years later and she was pretty messed up. I remember legendary Detroit DJ "Frantic" Ernie Durham asking me if I would please ride with her in the elevator to the dressing rooms to make sure she got there!

[franjoy56]

Wow that must hsve been something. If wanda didnt have issues w her sister being killed t group mite have gone on through t early 70s

[marv2]

Wow that must hsve been something. If wanda didnt have issues w her sister being killed t group mite have gone on through t early 70s

Yes that tragedy with her sister really messed with her head. I could see the group going on to probably 1980 or around there.

[jobeterob]

I recall a post Susaye Greene made on here several years ago telling Marv that he wasn’t there

Some first hand talk

From glancing at this, it might be relevant

[midnightman]

Oh did she?

OOPS.

[marv2]

I recall a post Susaye Greene made on here several years ago telling Marv that he wasn’t there

Some first hand talk

From glancing at this, it might be relevant

Go back to sleep! You never have anything of value to offer the discussion. LOL!

[marv2]

I recall a post Susaye Greene made on here several years ago telling Marv that he wasn’t there

Some first hand talk

From glancing at this, it might be relevant

Shouldn't you be finding out the next time Diana Ross goes grocery shopping with her daughter and posting it here? hehehehehehe!

[Roberta75]

Wanda did have some major issues. I met her years later and she was pretty messed up. I remember legendary Detroit DJ "Frantic" Ernie Durham asking me if I would please ride with her in the elevator to the dressing rooms to make sure she got there!

You always seem to be 20 Feet from Stardom.

[franjoy56]

I dont think he was 20 ft from stardom.. He was just watching over a dear motown ex singer who needed a watchful eye.

[RanRan79]

I recall a post Susaye Greene made on here several years ago telling Marv that he wasn’t there

Some first hand talk

From glancing at this, it might be relevant

Now that would be first hand knowledge. If I repeat the story it will be hearsay on my part. How is it that a couple of people don't seem to understand that? Oh well, their problem, not mine.

[RanRan79]

You always seem to be 20 Feet from Stardom.

More like 20 feet from someone always willing to share some gossip with him about Motown acts. Dude is a joke.

[TomatoTom123]

Nope not really because I stick to exactly what I have been told by the principles involved.

But if you have been told by someone else, and then you tell us, the information you give us is second hand, right...? :)

[TomatoTom123]

Yes Tom, that's exactly what it would be. Could you imagine Marv in court?

Lawyer: Marv, you're claiming today that Smokey Robinson insulted Gladys Horton, correct?

Marv: That is correct. He insulted her.

Lawyer: Do you know this to be fact?

Marv: Yes I do.

Lawyer: How?

Marv: Someone- I can't say who- told me.

Lawyer: Oh, so you don't know if this is true?

Marv: It's true.

Lawyer: But you don't know it's true.

Marv: Yes I do. Someone told me.

Lawyer: Objection. This is hearsay.

Marv: Look, no it isn't. I only tell facts and the fact is that someone- I can't say who- told me what Smokey said to Gladys. So I know all about it.

Lawyer: That's not first hand knowledge Marv.

Marv: Yes it is because I know first hand who told me. I can't say who.

Lawyer: Your honor I'm going home to kill myself, so no further questions for this witness.

Judge: Marv you may step down.

Marv: Mary Wilson rules!!!

LOL

well RanRan it's a shame Marv won't see this

[[or will he? :cool:)

[TomatoTom123]

Marv u got ur hands full w these haters.

Hi fran, I wouldn't say people are hating on marv, just questioning his source of information, how he knows so much. This is a perfectly legitimate question in my opinion, particularly on an Internet forum. :)

[TomatoTom123]

Like Berry Gordy said, I've washed my hands of the haters! LOL!

Hey Marv are you comparing yourself to Berry Gordy now?! I mean, Jesus was a long shot... :p

[RanRan79]

LOL

well RanRan it's a shame Marv won't see this

[[or will he? :cool:)

I know right? He has such a great sense of humor that I just know he'd get a kick out of it.:rolleyes:

[RanRan79]

Hi fran, I wouldn't say people are hating on marv, just questioning his source of information, how he knows so much. This is a perfectly legitimate question in my opinion, particularly on an Internet forum. :)

Apparently you're not allowed to question Marv, which is why I've been "banished". Lol I went ahead and blocked him too since there's no use in reading someone's comments that won't see my responses. I also blocked a couple of his biggest allies since they are all birds of feather, including the one you are referencing in your post. I think things will become more fun now that we can focus on the music.

[TomatoTom123]

Apparently you're not allowed to question Marv, which is why I've been "banished". Lol I went ahead and blocked him too since there's no use in reading someone's comments that won't see my responses. I also blocked a couple of his biggest allies since they are all birds of feather, including the one you are referencing in your post. I think things will become more fun now that we can focus on the music.

Ohhh Ran, I shall miss your, erm, conversations with Marv from now on then. Totally understand your actions though, of course. :)

[franjoy56]

I couldnt care less if u blocked me ran ran i dont know u or care t with ur insulting posts. Ive bren listening to motown music before. I knew u existed so leave me out of your posts.

[franjoy56]

@nd furthermore i. Originated this post with a simple question and did not expect insulting remarks from the likes of u..

[franjoy56]

Marv is a reliable source as far as im concerned end of story.

[RanRan79]

Ohhh Ran, I shall miss your, erm, conversations with Marv from now on then. Totally understand your actions though, of course. :)

I'm glad we entertained you Tom.:p But it's better to have rational conversations with rational adults, not the childish children trapped in 50/60/70 year old bodies. See ya in another thread Tom!

[TomatoTom123]

Marv is a reliable source as far as im concerned end of story.

Wha? How can you be so sure fran? I'd like to know where the, um, knowledge comes from. But if you're OK with it, that's cool. :cool:

[TomatoTom123]

I'm glad we entertained you Tom.:p But it's better to have rational conversations with rational adults, not the childish children trapped in 50/60/70 year old bodies. See ya in another thread Tom!

Damn I was quite enjoying this one! :rolleyes:

[Roberta75]

Marv is a reliable source as far as im concerned end of story.

Lololololololololol. Hehehehe. Priceless.

[franjoy56]

I always found marv to be reliable in his information hes beern on here since i came on in 09. Met him at a few shows and his motown collection is extensive. Im sorry for all those who dont enjoy his posts but thats life we cant all agree. Im an older fan and i know all at motown was not peaches and cream yet a lot was. Good especially the recognition so.e of the artist got but there were disillusion from some Example marvelettetes mary wells. Flotence ballard jean terrell.
Wha? How can you be so sure fran? I'd like to know where the, um, knowledge comes from. But if you're OK with it, that's cool. :cool:

[franjoy56]

I always found marv to be reliable in his information hes beern on here since i came on in 09. Met him at a few shows and his motown collection is extensive. Im sorry for all those who dont enjoy his posts but thats life we cant all agree. Im an older fan and i know all at motown was not peaches and cream yet a lot was. Good especially the recognition so.e of the artist got but there were disillusion from some Example marvelettetes mary wells. Flotence ballard jean terrell.
Wha? How can you be so sure fran? I'd like to know where the, um, knowledge comes from. But if you're OK with it, that's cool. :cool:

[marv2]

Marv is a reliable source as far as im concerned end of story.

Fran I am totally reliable, you know that! Who ever said I wasn't doesn't know what they're talking about. Anyway, you have a pretty popular thread here. Is there anything else you'd like to discuss on this topic?

[marv2]

Wha? How can you be so sure fran? I'd like to know where the, um, knowledge comes from. But if you're OK with it, that's cool. :cool:

It comes from living Tommy boy. LOL! Is there anything else you can beat out of this thread, this one question Fran had?

[TomatoTom123]

It comes from living Tommy boy. LOL! Is there anything else you can beat out of this thread, this one question Fran had?

LOL, OK, marv, I'm done now :rolleyes:

[Roberta75]

I always found marv to be reliable in his information hes beern on here since i came on in 09. Met him at a few shows and his motown collection is extensive. Im sorry for all those who dont enjoy his posts but thats life we cant all agree. Im an older fan and i know all at motown was not peaches and cream yet a lot was. Good especially the recognition so.e of the artist got but there were disillusion from some Example marvelettetes mary wells. Flotence ballard jean terrell.

We all love Flotence.

[franjoy56]

no marv i think im done. I just wish gladys got mote considerstion and kindness from u know who and marvelettes had a memorable end to a wonderful body of work i wont ask what was said to gladys i hsve a pretty good idea after hearing that interview.btw i had on cassettr years ago. Best

[marv2]

no marv i think im done. I just wish gladys got mote considerstion and kindness from u know who and marvelettes had a memorable end to a wonderful body of work i wont ask what was said to gladys i hsve a pretty good idea after hearing that interview.btw i had on cassettr years ago. Best

Fran, Iwill tell what he said if you send me a private message. It's too much for some of these churren to handle. LOL!

[franjoy56]

Marv i really enjoyed this thread and didnt know it would blow the way it did that usually happens when i post .but some younger fans refuse t see all was not peaches and cream at motown and thanks for sheding some light on this interesting topic.

[franjoy56]

I think im going to watch the marvelettes on unsung if i can find it.

[marv2]

Marv i really enjoyed this thread and didnt know it would blow the way it did that usually happens when i post .but some younger fans refuse t see all was not peaches and cream at motown and thanks for sheding some light on this interesting topic.

You're most welcome Fran. Don't let anyone ever tell you that age and experience doesn't have it's advantages! LOL! Have a great evening.

[Boogiedown]

Until the haters can produce a picture similar to this , I'll hear Marv out on his insider knowledge.

https://soulfuldetroit.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=14023&d=1520372318

[franjoy56]

I think ill pass on what smokey had t say it might upset me and i enjoyed a lot of his early stuff. Happy landing and. I gotta dance to keep from crying. I believe if gladys had stayed w the group inspite of wanda getting t leads she may have kept order. After too many fish in the sea hit u just wanted t hear more of her soulful no nonsense. But wanda handled the new records well esp dont mess w bill and magician each singer gave the marvelettes 4 top 25 singles
Gladys pmp 1 playboy 7. Beechwood 17. Too many fish 25
Wanda. Bill. 7. Hunter 13. Magician 17 Young and in love 23

[franjoy56]

All right boogidown let the haters eat it up. Marv u and mary r chillin.

[franjoy56]

And u r lookin quite dapper i may add no wonder marys got her arm around u. Lol

[luke]

Amen franjoy. The group of wanna be bullies aint gonna like that pic! Or maybe they’ll be jealous! Lol

[marv2]

All right boogidown let the haters eat it up. Marv u and mary r chillin.

Ahh, thanks Fran. I do have some really great memories with her.

[marv2]

Amen franjoy. The group of wanna be bullies aint gonna like that pic! Or maybe they’ll be jealous! Lol

Luke, please, don't feed the trolls..........................hehehehehehehehe!

[luke]

Sometimes Marv we just have to tell it like it is!

[Roberta75]

Sometimes Marv we just have to tell it like it is!

Your loyalty and devotion to Marv is real touching. ❤️❤️

[Roberta75]

Ahh, thanks Fran. I do have some really great memories with her.

So does every fan thats taken a photo with Mary Wilson. Buy her a drink after the show or purchase her upclose CD or DVD and Mary graciously chats and poses with ALL her fans.

[midnightman]

Remember when this forum was about music, sharing memories of Motown legends and such? And not about gossip from Tony Turner books? I [[kinda) remember.

[jobeterob]

I wonder if there’s a walker in the current picture

[BayouMotownMan]

Yeah! Smokey took the lead from Gladys and gave it to Wanda when he started writing and producing for them. He said some truly rude and unmentionable things right to Gladys' face and she never got over it and I don't think she ever forgave him. In a few words....It was awful! LOL!

This is total garbage as usual, another desperate attempt for attention and credibility. Smokey Robinson is a gentleman, and would never have been rude to Gladys. I spoke with Gladys at length in 2002 when we did Mysteries and Scandals Florence Ballard. I have also spoken with Kat Schaffner for that show and other times through the years. And Joe Schaffner and the late Joe Shillair as well.

Smokey took over main production of the group after Don't Mess With Bill. What Smokey DID tell Gladys was that he prefered Wanda's voice because it was softer, like Diana and Claudettes. Diana Ross was selling millions of records.

Gladys didn't like it that much but she went along with it.

The problem between Gladys and Wanda was minimal when compared to Diana and Flo or David Ruffin and Otis Williams. Wanda's ego became inflamed when the hits started to come back. Gladys was more even tempered but Kat would straighten you out. They knew Wanda was on a substance. They mostly tolerated her but the occasional outbursts did occur. Also during this period producers stopped using Gladys and Kat for backing vocals which enhanced Wanda's self-worth.

Gladys Horton dropped out of the Marvelettes because she gave birth to a severely handicapped son. She was an orphan and had no one to help her with her baby. There is no other reason.

There was no mistreatment of Smokey to Gladys Horton.

[BayouMotownMan]

Until the haters can produce a picture similar to this , I'll hear Marv out on his insider knowledge.

https://soulfuldetroit.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=14023&d=1520372318

This is hilarious. Taking an extremely blurry photo of Mary Wilson years ago gives him credibility? Mary takes millions of pics a year with fans, this means nothing.

[midnightman]

Why is the Klansman posting in this thread acting like he cool with the "snowflakes" [[i.e., black folks, us)?

LOL

[detmotownguy]

No that's not true. They didn't even tell where source of the "frictions" came from in any book. So it was not used to sell the product. In fact, in most books about Motown [[save for Miss Ray's book), they were all pretty tame and did not tell all the uglies that really went on at Motown in Detroit. Ain't that the truth Marv. I doubt it will ever be told; let's hope not.

[Roberta75]

This is total garbage as usual, another desperate attempt for attention and credibility. Smokey Robinson is a gentleman, and would never have been rude to Gladys. I spoke with Gladys at length in 2002 when we did Mysteries and Scandals Florence Ballard. I have also spoken with Kat Schaffner for that show and other times through the years. And Joe Schaffner and the late Joe Shillair as well.

Smokey took over main production of the group after Don't Mess With Bill. What Smokey DID tell Gladys was that he prefered Wanda's voice because it was softer, like Diana and Claudettes. Diana Ross was selling millions of records.

Gladys didn't like it that much but she went along with it.

The problem between Gladys and Wanda was minimal when compared to Diana and Flo or David Ruffin and Otis Williams. Wanda's ego became inflamed when the hits started to come back. Gladys was more even tempered but Kat would straighten you out. They knew Wanda was on a substance. They mostly tolerated her but the occasional outbursts did occur. Also during this period producers stopped using Gladys and Kat for backing vocals which enhanced Wanda's self-worth.

Gladys Horton dropped out of the Marvelettes because she gave birth to a severely handicapped son. She was an orphan and had no one to help her with her baby. There is no other reason.

There was no mistreatment of Smokey to Gladys Horton.

Once again I thank you for telling the truth and always being the voice of reason.

Fondly,

Roberta

[midnightman]

This is total garbage as usual, another desperate attempt for attention and credibility. Smokey Robinson is a gentleman, and would never have been rude to Gladys. I spoke with Gladys at length in 2002 when we did Mysteries and Scandals Florence Ballard. I have also spoken with Kat Schaffner for that show and other times through the years. And Joe Schaffner and the late Joe Shillair as well.

Smokey took over main production of the group after Don't Mess With Bill. What Smokey DID tell Gladys was that he prefered Wanda's voice because it was softer, like Diana and Claudettes. Diana Ross was selling millions of records.

Gladys didn't like it that much but she went along with it.

The problem between Gladys and Wanda was minimal when compared to Diana and Flo or David Ruffin and Otis Williams. Wanda's ego became inflamed when the hits started to come back. Gladys was more even tempered but Kat would straighten you out. They knew Wanda was on a substance. They mostly tolerated her but the occasional outbursts did occur. Also during this period producers stopped using Gladys and Kat for backing vocals which enhanced Wanda's self-worth.

Gladys Horton dropped out of the Marvelettes because she gave birth to a severely handicapped son. She was an orphan and had no one to help her with her baby. There is no other reason.

There was no mistreatment of Smokey to Gladys Horton.

Facts.

Also people got nerve to disrespect Smokey much like they disrespect Diana. Hell, they're disrespecting Gladys Horton's memory by bringing up some almost 30-year-old interview that was just nothing but hearsay. But I see how it is with some folks. They don't come here to celebrate music, they just do things to prove a point. What point? Who knows. It's childish and silly for folks WAY OLDER than me to still be acting like 1967 hasn't left them. 51 years have passed and stuff has CHANGED!

[jobeterob]

That’s a good post Midnightman

I always think a few wacko forum participants make much out of nothing; you never hear Martha or Smokey or Claudette or Janie or Stevie or Diana or Berry talk like that

And they were there!

I’ve been told there are disabilities that are the cause of the harshness exhibited by at least one of our posters

[Roberta75]

Facts.

Also people got nerve to disrespect Smokey much like they disrespect Diana. Hell, they're disrespecting Gladys Horton's memory by bringing up some almost 30-year-old interview that was just nothing but hearsay. But I see how it is with some folks. They don't come here to celebrate music, they just do things to prove a point. What point? Who knows. It's childish and silly for folks WAY OLDER than me to still be acting like 1967 hasn't left them. 51 years have passed and stuff has CHANGED!

Preach my dear, preach. You are another great voice of reason.

fondly,

Roberta

[TomatoTom123]

I thought this thread wasn't quite finished... thank you Bayou & midnight, for restoring my sanity. :p

[BayouMotownMan]

Facts.

Also people got nerve to disrespect Smokey much like they disrespect Diana. Hell, they're disrespecting Gladys Horton's memory by bringing up some almost 30-year-old interview that was just nothing but hearsay. But I see how it is with some folks. They don't come here to celebrate music, they just do things to prove a point. What point? Who knows. It's childish and silly for folks WAY OLDER than me to still be acting like 1967 hasn't left them. 51 years have passed and stuff has CHANGED!

Excellent post.

Of course there was drama at Motown, when is there not drama in the workplace. At a successful record company like Motown, there was a lot of creativity and ambition and with that comes strong emotions. But geez this stuff was half a century ago. Does Flo care about any of this stuff where she is? Does Gladys? They're in paradise, LET THEM ENJOY IT.

I also maintain the person who constantly digs up this stuff in a desparate attempt for attention is only exposing himself as being incredibly lonely and unfulfilled. Most of us on here relish the legacy of Motown and we do enjoy the gossipy stuff occasionally. But when a person makes it up to try to pass himself off as a Motown "expert" it appears to be a mental disturbance.

I don't come on SDF as much as I used to but, when I don't someone will alert me to this person's incoherent ramblings. Can I ask that I not be contacted about him any further? I am semi-retired, I am in the gym just about everyday and I am still rebuilding from the flood of August 2016 so my plate is full.

To further prove my point, the BBC is doing a special on famous rock bands and they are featuring the Supremes. I was contacted in January and they were going to fly someone here to interview me. I declined. Instead I referred them to long time fan club president Carl Feuerbacher. Mary Wilson was of course interviewed.

I cherish the legacy of all Motown acts. But when it's over, it's over.

[Roberta75]

Excellent post.

Of course there was drama at Motown, when is there not drama in the workplace. At a successful record company like Motown, there was a lot of creativity and ambition and with that comes strong emotions. But geez this stuff was half a century ago. Does Flo care about any of this stuff where she is? Does Gladys? They're in paradise, LET THEM ENJOY IT.

I also maintain the person who constantly digs up this stuff in a desparate attempt for attention is only exposing himself as being incredibly lonely and unfulfilled. Most of us on here relish the legacy of Motown and we do enjoy the gossipy stuff occasionally. But when a person makes it up to try to pass himself off as a Motown "expert" it appears to be a mental disturbance.

I don't come on SDF as much as I used to but, when I don't someone will alert me to this person's incoherent ramblings. Can I ask that I not be contacted about him any further? I am semi-retired, I am in the gym just about everyday and I am still rebuilding from the flood of August 2016 so my plate is full.

To further prove my point, the BBC is doing a special on famous rock bands and they are featuring the Supremes. I was contacted in January and they were going to fly someone here to interview me. I declined. Instead I referred them to long time fan club president Carl Feuerbacher. Mary Wilson was of course interviewed.

I cherish the legacy of all Motown acts. But when it's over, it's over.

You really are the checks and balances person and the legitimate source we need. Ive seen you on TV discussing Motown and the Supremes and Florence Ballard and Miss Ross and I personaly feel we need you here to keep the fabricator in check.

God bless you.

Roberta

[BayouMotownMan]

Thank you Roberta but the moderator seems to enjoy his ramblings

[Roberta75]

Thank you Roberta but the moderator seems to enjoy his ramblings

Although the fabricators star is real tarnished these days. Theres only a few left that blindly follow him and believe his BS. Hes the Donald Trump of this here forum. LOL

[franjoy56]

the legacy of what motown was is never over whether it be 1967 or 1990. We love the music and if a subject comes up worth discussing i see nothing wrong in discussing it. After watching tv one the problems w wanda went deeper. Than what u r describing and glsdys never spoke about marvelettes business in public but catherine definetly didi because she had to deal with marvelettes businrss bookings iafter gladys left when the problems got worsre. U r right gladys left to take care of her handicapped child. We should discuss without getting hostile. Soulful detroit is sbout the ups and downs of the music of detroit and not just motown. If someone decides to discuss why hdh fleed motown to launch hot wax records would that be a topic one should say its old hat many of what happened in 1967 is key to motowns history

[midnightman]

Excellent post.

Of course there was drama at Motown, when is there not drama in the workplace. At a successful record company like Motown, there was a lot of creativity and ambition and with that comes strong emotions. But geez this stuff was half a century ago. Does Flo care about any of this stuff where she is? Does Gladys? They're in paradise, LET THEM ENJOY IT.

I also maintain the person who constantly digs up this stuff in a desparate attempt for attention is only exposing himself as being incredibly lonely and unfulfilled. Most of us on here relish the legacy of Motown and we do enjoy the gossipy stuff occasionally. But when a person makes it up to try to pass himself off as a Motown "expert" it appears to be a mental disturbance.

I don't come on SDF as much as I used to but, when I don't someone will alert me to this person's incoherent ramblings. Can I ask that I not be contacted about him any further? I am semi-retired, I am in the gym just about everyday and I am still rebuilding from the flood of August 2016 so my plate is full.

To further prove my point, the BBC is doing a special on famous rock bands and they are featuring the Supremes. I was contacted in January and they were going to fly someone here to interview me. I declined. Instead I referred them to long time fan club president Carl Feuerbacher. Mary Wilson was of course interviewed.

I cherish the legacy of all Motown acts. But when it's over, it's over.

I definitely think there are some folks who are deeply unhappy and they take it out on others and when there are disagreements, it boils over so yeah I definitely see it here.

So they build themselves to be someone they're not. So I definitely feel you there. It would be best to let them wallow in their own playground but one can get easily swept by someone's negativity.

[jobeterob]

Franjoy, Midnight and Bayou are all right.

What Fran is overlooking is the mean spirited, hateful posts of some she is defending.

The Motown people love each other and speak kindly and highly of each other; follow Janie Bradford and Claudette Robinson and Joe Billingslea on Facebook; and Dennis Edwards when he was with us. And many others.

Their caring for each other should not be denigrated by the odd mentally ill fan.

Soulful Detroit could have been more than it was but it was damaged and not taken as seriously as it could have been due to that behavior that was allowed.

[Roberta75]

I definitely think there are some folks who are deeply unhappy and they take it out on others and when there are disagreements, it boils over so yeah I definitely see it here.

So they build themselves to be someone they're not. So I definitely feel you there. It would be best to let them wallow in their own playground but one can get easily swept by someone's negativity.

Its the ones that hold 30, and 40 and 50 year grudges against Ross and Gordy and Smokey and Suzanne and Wilson that get me. They hold on to hate and grudges that outside of being a fan have absolutely nothing to do with them. If the haters had a life theyd see that they were not there as the lovely Miss Susaye Greene told one of the. They are NOT friends of these Motown acts and never will be. They are fans that take this stuff way to personaly.

[Boogiedown]

Why is the Klansman posting in this thread acting like he cool with the "snowflakes" [[i.e., black folks, us)?

LOL

When I post here , the last thing on my mind is what skin color anybody is. Who cares.
As for snowflakes, they come in all degrees of skin tones .......as do assholes .


whoops almost forgot the "lol"

[Boogiedown]

https://soulfuldetroit.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=14023&d=1520372318

This just gave me a great idea !!!
Why don't we each post our pictures [[even if blurry) of Diana being similarly chummy with us !!:cool::cool::cool:

[midnightman]

Its the ones that hold 30, and 40 and 50 year grudges against Ross and Gordy and Smokey and Suzanne and Wilson that get me. They hold on to hate and grudges that outside of being a fan have absolutely nothing to do with them. If the haters had a life theyd see that they were not there as the lovely Miss Susaye Greene told one of the. They are NOT friends of these Motown acts and never will be. They are fans that take this stuff way to personaly.

They act like they're the stuff because they took some grainy pics with a few Supremes.

[RanRan79]

This is hilarious. Taking an extremely blurry photo of Mary Wilson years ago gives him credibility? Mary takes millions of pics a year with fans, this means nothing.

That's the level of nonsense that circulates among a certain crowd here. How in the world could a photo like that add credibility? And why is it a crime to ask someone to source their claims? And how can a person know something to to be true if they weren't there? These and other questions will be answered on next week's episode of Soulful Detroit.:p

Btw, I know everything that happened the night Florence was fired from the Supremes, even though I was born many years later. How do I know? I've read books, so I know everything. Everything.

[RanRan79]

Why is the Klansman posting in this thread acting like he cool with the "snowflakes" [[i.e., black folks, us)?

LOL

You know why.:cool:

[RanRan79]

I definitely think there are some folks who are deeply unhappy and they take it out on others and when there are disagreements, it boils over so yeah I definitely see it here.

So they build themselves to be someone they're not. So I definitely feel you there. It would be best to let them wallow in their own playground but one can get easily swept by someone's negativity.

Anybody that gossips this much has to be unhappy. But he's irrational on top of it. And his crew backs him up. They're all nuts. I don't mind disagreeing with someone, but we have to have rational and intelligent back and forths. The line of posts that culminated in my being blocked were me asking perfectly good questions and the responses making absolutely no sense.

I finally get what Thanxal is saying when he says his experience on the forum is much more pleasant when he started making use of the ignore feature. I've added a couple more to the blocked list and it is a better experience.

[thanxal]

I finally get what Thanxal is saying when he says his experience on the forum is much more pleasant when he started making use of the ignore feature. I've added a couple more to the blocked list and it is a better experience.

The other thing to remember is that some of the Mary Wilson trolls are often posting as part of a lame attempt to continue flame wars between Diana and Mary camps. It is a transparent attempt to show anti-Mary bias to justify the anti-Diana slurs.

We had a group gaslighting the forum last year that Ralph promptly took care of. They were pushing people toward a trasheap of a website that now appears to be defunct.

I don’t know about this thread since I now use the block function. If it gets bad again, take it up with Ralph. I found him to be very reasonable.

[BayouMotownMan]

The other thing to remember is that some of the Mary Wilson trolls are often posting as part of a lame attempt to continue flame wars between Diana and Mary camps. It is a transparent attempt to show anti-Mary bias to justify the anti-Diana slurs.

We had a group gaslighting the forum last year that Ralph promptly took care of. They were pushing people toward a trasheap of a website that now appears to be defunct.

I don’t know about this thread since I now use the block function. If it gets bad again, take it up with Ralph. I found him to be very reasonable.

Many of us have but Ralph totally supports the Marv2 bashing and misinformation.

[RanRan79]

The other thing to remember is that some of the Mary Wilson trolls are often posting as part of a lame attempt to continue flame wars between Diana and Mary camps. It is a transparent attempt to show anti-Mary bias to justify the anti-Diana slurs.

We had a group gaslighting the forum last year that Ralph promptly took care of. They were pushing people toward a trasheap of a website that now appears to be defunct.

I don’t know about this thread since I now use the block function. If it gets bad again, take it up with Ralph. I found him to be very reasonable.

Yes, I emailed Ralph about the posters who were so obviously causing trouble and I was glad to see "banned" appearing beside their names soon after. And you and I have "talked" before about screennames that are so anti Diana and anti Mary actually belonging to the same person[[s). I've just started adding folks on both sides to the blocked list, for the most part. And I'm starting to notice a couple more who are about to join it.

[TomatoTom123]

Quick question: how does the block feature work if the thread your reading or posting on has been started by someone you have blocked? I don't really want to block anyone, just wondering how it works.

[TomatoTom123]

Btw, I know everything that happened the night Florence was fired from the Supremes, even though I was born many years later. How do I know? I've read books, so I know everything. Everything.

In that case RanRan, you will know that I, the unborn foetus friend, was there that night, watching everything unfold. I couldn't believe my tiny underdeveloped eyes when Florence turned around to Diana and said........ ah but you know I couldn't possibly go there... some people around here wouldn't be able to handle the real story. :rolleyes:

[midnightman]

Quick question: how does the block feature work if the thread your reading or posting on has been started by someone you have blocked? I don't really want to block anyone, just wondering how it works.

Click on the person's profile. When they take you to the profile, you're gonna see a feature that says "ignore user". Click on it and hit "ignore" or whatever it says and then if they ask you if you wanna ignore them, say yes, and VOILA, they're blocked.

[franjoy56]

This post is suppose to be about t dynamics and sometimes disagreements between the two lead singers of the. marvelous marvelettes and not the supremes and siince we have solved t answers why is all this foolish bickering about sdf members continuing to be aired uneccesarily

[sansradio]

Quick question: how does the block feature work if the thread your reading or posting on has been started by someone you have blocked? I don't really want to block anyone, just wondering how it works.

You'll still see the thread, Tom, just not the offender's posts on it.

[TomatoTom123]

Click on the person's profile. When they take you to the profile, you're gonna see a feature that says "ignore user". Click on it and hit "ignore" or whatever it says and then if they ask you if you wanna ignore them, say yes, and VOILA, they're blocked.


You'll still see the thread, Tom, just not the offender's posts on it.

Thanks midnight & sans.

If a thread is started by someone you have blocked, does the thread title appear but not their post?

[midnightman]

Yeah the title appears but their post is not visible.

[jobeterob]

And on a desktop computer, you can click and see the post if you want

And you can reverse the ignore if you want

On my phone, it is not possible to click and see the post

[ralpht]

I wish, when I get some complaint about another forum member, that the person complaining could show me exactly where the problem is. I,at times, find I must read an entire thread to try and find a problem only to come up empty handed after wasting my time. If you think you have a problem, use the damn ignore function and quit acting like a bunch of high school kids.

[Roberta75]

I wish, when I get some complaint about another forum member, that the person complaining could show me exactly where the problem is. I,at times, find I must read an entire thread to try and find a problem only to come up empty handed after wasting my time. If you think you have a problem, use the damn ignore function and quit acting like a bunch of high school kids.


Heres the perfect example Ralph and this thread should only take you a minute to read. At least 9 rude posts attacking Lionel Ritchies character which are NOT fact based and only Marv's opinion. Its real tiresome all his negativity. Fondly, Roberta

https://soulfuldetroit.com/showthread.php?20919-Lionel-Richie-on-leaving-the-Commodores-quot-it-was-very-painful-quot

[RanRan79]

I wish, when I get some complaint about another forum member, that the person complaining could show me exactly where the problem is. I,at times, find I must read an entire thread to try and find a problem only to come up empty handed after wasting my time. If you think you have a problem, use the damn ignore function and quit acting like a bunch of high school kids.

Ralph, the nerve of you!!! We are a bunch of high school kids!!:p

[RanRan79]

Heres the perfect example Ralph and this thread should only take you a minute to read. At least 9 rude posts attacking Lionel Ritchies character which are NOT fact based and only Marv's opinion. Its real tiresome all his negativity. Fondly, Roberta

https://soulfuldetroit.com/showthread.php?20919-Lionel-Richie-on-leaving-the-Commodores-quot-it-was-very-painful-quot

Roberta you would do well to take Ralph's advice. I blocked my first person late last week and in the several days since, I have blocked 7 or 8 more screennames and my time in this forum is much more pleasant with each click of the ignore feature. At this point I don't care who does what on the board. If I don't like it and it appears to be an ongoing problem, I hit "ignore" and keep it moving. You should too.

[midnightman]

I agree with Ralph, just use the ignore feature.

[TomatoTom123]

Ralph, the nerve of you!!! We are a bunch of high school kids!!:p

Well..... :rolleyes:

[arr&bee]

You have to be in high school to be here??? Opps!!!

[jobeterob]

Retireds with not enough to do; whangers not working the way they used to etc. So news feeds stand up in place.

[midnightman]

I was just right out of high school and in college when I first joined Motown forums in 2005 lol [[I was 21 lol)

[Boogiedown]

For clarity:
Since I was needlessly maligned on it , and would therefore have had good cause , I do not want it to be therefore suspected that I was the one who whined to Ralph about this thread. I don't roll like that.
And I agree with him, the ignore button is the perfect solution for those who don't want to read input put forth by certain members. :cool::)

[luke]

Thank God those people in Washington spoke out about that bully nominee to head the VA dept!

[franjoy56]

I am posting to end this post hopefully on a good note. Keep off no trespassing to those who r intent in turning this post on conversation that had nothing to do with the marvelettrs. Keep off no trespassing is on of the finest moments on vinyl in which gladys excels as lead and wanda helps out on t chorus to make this a standout record its on the pink marvelettrs 67 album and on t flip side to here i am baby. Its nice to know they were releasing b sides on gladys after she was gone. And yes wands carried on in grand style.