Syreeta..what happened?

[luke]

Syreeta seemed to be one of Berry’s favorites. I’m assuming her albums got promoted. She had been married to stevie and they remained friends. So why didn’t she become a bigger star? She sure seems to have the talent. Her albums just didn’t click with the public?

[midnightman]

IDK... seems to me she didn't get promoted enough. All I remembered is she performed on Soul Train [[and probably American Bandstand) during the SWPS period.

Spinning and Spinning and Your Kiss is Sweet were both promoted heavily in the UK but I don't recall Syreeta going there to perform until afterwards? Maybe there was a Top of the Pops performance, I don't know. Maybe the Stevie Wonder drama was too much [[she was divorcing him but was still in good terms with him but Stevie's albums were released and probably pushed hers inadvertently to the background).

I don't think the first album was promoted at all. One to One was too mature, I guess.

I'd like to see what they say about her career on Unsung.

[lakeside]

I liked her voice....a lot. Just didn't care for the material given her. Maybe others felt that way, too?

[gman]

I personally don't like high pitched voices for extended listening...[[Minnie, Susaye, Deniece) a cut or 2 here and there, OK. I love Jean Terrell very much, but there are some tracks where even she is too shrill for me....ditto for belters [[Barbra, Patti, Ethel & most B'way stars)

[marv2]

Syreeta seemed to be one of Berry’s favorites. I’m assuming her albums got promoted. She had been married to stevie and they remained friends. So why didn’t she become a bigger star? She sure seems to have the talent. Her albums just didn’t click with the public?

It was always a mystery to me how Syreeta Wright was able to remain signed to Motown for approx. 11 years before she got a bona fide hit with Billy Preston. She was a favorite. So was Myra Waters.

[RanRan79]

I personally don't like high pitched voices for extended listening...[[Minnie, Susaye, Deniece) a cut or 2 here and there, OK. I love Jean Terrell very much, but there are some tracks where even she is too shrill for me

Pretty much how I feel, minus Deniece, who I can listen to all day, and Jean Terrell, who always does it for me. Those really high voices like Syreeta's tend to grate on my nerves. However, the Stevie Wonder Presents album is one of my favorites, probably because of Stevie's influence.

Motown has so many mysteries in regards to people not becoming bigger. But imagine they were no different than any other label in that regard. I'm sure the Atlantics, Columbias, ABC's, Epics and so forth have a number of artists on the label that boggles the mind as to why they weren't successful.

[luke]

I think the unusual thing is that Syreeta was at Motown so long - ala the Supremes - yet she had such limited success, unlike the Supremes.

[jobeterob]

I personally don't like high pitched voices for extended listening...[[Minnie, Susaye, Deniece) a cut or 2 here and there, OK. I love Jean Terrell very much, but there are some tracks where even she is too shrill for me....ditto for belters [[Barbra, Patti, Ethel & most B'way stars)

The high pitched voice is harder to attract success. Remember the Supremes weren't successful til they took Diana's voice down a few notches.

[RanRan79]

I think the unusual thing is that Syreeta was at Motown so long - ala the Supremes - yet she had such limited success, unlike the Supremes.

Most of those years of her tenure were during the 70s and as we know Motown was struggling for hits for everybody except the J5, Diana, Stevie, Marvin, the Tempts, the Supremes and an odd artist here and there. At a certain point even the J5, the Tempts, and of course the Supremes, started having hit struggles, and Diana was an inconsistent hit maker. All of that makes me think that Syreeta's limited success was the result of a disconnection between her and the public. As much as I love her second album [[It really is on my personal "critical acclaim" list) nothing on it stands out as a song that radio would have spun constantly. Listening to her output, there's very little that makes me think she was a hit maker waiting to happen if only the songs had been promoted. So I'm guessing Motown sticking with her for so long despite these issues may very well have been that Gordy- or other higher ups at the label- thought highly of her in some way or another. Didn't she write songs too? They may have kept her around for that also. And of course Stevie may have had something to do with it.

[mysterysinger]

I agree that Syreeta should have achieved much more at Motown - some of her album tracks are amazingly good. However, the UK didn't overlook her quite so much as the USA. We can point to 6 Top 50 hits which isn't too bad.

"Spinnin' and Spinnin'" 49
"Your Kiss Is Sweet" 12
"Harmour Love" 32
"Let's Make A Deal" 12 w G.C. Cameron
"With You I'm Born Again" 2 w Billy Preston
"It Will Come In Time" 47 w Billy Preston

[midnightman]

Most of those years of her tenure were during the 70s and as we know Motown was struggling for hits for everybody except the J5, Diana, Stevie, Marvin, the Tempts, the Supremes and an odd artist here and there. At a certain point even the J5, the Tempts, and of course the Supremes, started having hit struggles, and Diana was an inconsistent hit maker. All of that makes me think that Syreeta's limited success was the result of a disconnection between her and the public. As much as I love her second album [[It really is on my personal "critical acclaim" list) nothing on it stands out as a song that radio would have spun constantly. Listening to her output, there's very little that makes me think she was a hit maker waiting to happen if only the songs had been promoted. So I'm guessing Motown sticking with her for so long despite these issues may very well have been that Gordy- or other higher ups at the label- thought highly of her in some way or another. Didn't she write songs too? They may have kept her around for that also. And of course Stevie may have had something to do with it.

Syreeta was the co-writer of Signed, Sealed, Delivered, It's a Shame and several songs on Stevie's albums.

[marv2]

I think the unusual thing is that Syreeta was at Motown so long - ala the Supremes - yet she had such limited success, unlike the Supremes.

She was at Motown a whole lot longer than the Supremes without having a hit. Then she remained there after the Supremes disbanded still with one hit under her belt.

[marv2]

I agree that Syreeta should have achieved much more at Motown - some of her album tracks are amazingly good. However, the UK didn't overlook her quite so much as the USA. We can point to 6 Top 50 hits which isn't too bad.

"Spinnin' and Spinnin'" 49
"Your Kiss Is Sweet" 12
"Harmour Love" 32
"Let's Make A Deal" 12 w G.C. Cameron
"With You I'm Born Again" 2 w Billy Preston
"It Will Come In Time" 47 w Billy Preston

She had no solo hits in America to my knowledge. I do not believe she had any hits on any charts regardless of genre. "With You I'm Born Again" with Billy Preston in 1979-80 was it. Keep in mind, she signed with Motown in 1968!

[BayouMotownMan]

I think it was a situation with Syreeta similar to Jean Terrell and Martha Reeves. All were head strong when it came to their music and although they respected Berry Gordy they resented his controlling presence. Any female singer at Motown was going to be second or third fiddle to the queen Diana Ross. In fact, Gordy signed Syreeta to the label with her in mind to replace Ross. Inevitably Gordy would constantly make comparisons and references to "Diane" to these women which they detested. Cindy Birdsong said in an interview long ago that she and Mary didn't like Syreeta but didn't go into detail why.

Syreeta was a gifted singer, likely the best female singer on the Motown roster. But she didn't buy into the glamour image, was down to earth and proud of her blackness. This may also have played a part into her limited success. Her lps and singles were NOT promoted except for the 1980 lp and Set My Love In Motion. The hit with Billy Preston was pretty much an accident. With You, I'm Born Again was first issued on the soundtrack lp Fast Break. The movie and the album tanked. But in the UK, With You was embraced and became a huge hit. It was released in the USA nearly a year after first being issued and radio stations gradually picked up on it and the shear beauty of the song just couldn't be denied. Syreeta stayed with Gordy if for no other reason than she worked when she wanted to which gave her time to raise her children the way she desired. She always had Stevie in her back pocket at Motown, she wouldn't anywhere else.

[luke]

I love If you Really love me with her and stevie. Did she co-write that?

[MIKEW-UK]

A lot of contrasting views here, and it just goes to show how some love a voice and some not so smitten. Before seeing this thread, I had Syreeta's "The Rita Wright Years" CD on permanent play in the car, just trying to understand why it wasn't grabbing me when others have found it spellbinding. Syreeta did record a few tracks which appealed to me, but almost always I came to the conclusion that I found her voice thin, shrill at the upper register, and not engaging. I was content to think it was just me, but I do see that others feel the same. I like her enormously, but as a recording artist, simply never worked for me. I find GC Cameron's voice captivating, but her duets with GC were flattened in my opinion. To be honest, I also found the dead hand of Michael Lovesmith all over the duets , hence the lack of ingenuity and inspiration

[midnightman]

I love If you Really love me with her and stevie. Did she co-write that?

Yep. In fact, she co-wrote ALL the tracks on Where I'm Coming From.

[midnightman]

I think it was a situation with Syreeta similar to Jean Terrell and Martha Reeves. All were head strong when it came to their music and although they respected Berry Gordy they resented his controlling presence. Any female singer at Motown was going to be second or third fiddle to the queen Diana Ross. In fact, Gordy signed Syreeta to the label with her in mind to replace Ross. Inevitably Gordy would constantly make comparisons and references to "Diane" to these women which they detested. Cindy Birdsong said in an interview long ago that she and Mary didn't like Syreeta but didn't go into detail why.

Syreeta was a gifted singer, likely the best female singer on the Motown roster. But she didn't buy into the glamour image, was down to earth and proud of her blackness. This may also have played a part into her limited success. Her lps and singles were NOT promoted except for the 1980 lp and Set My Love In Motion. The hit with Billy Preston was pretty much an accident. With You, I'm Born Again was first issued on the soundtrack lp Fast Break. The movie and the album tanked. But in the UK, With You was embraced and became a huge hit. It was released in the USA nearly a year after first being issued and radio stations gradually picked up on it and the shear beauty of the song just couldn't be denied. Syreeta stayed with Gordy if for no other reason than she worked when she wanted to which gave her time to raise her children the way she desired. She always had Stevie in her back pocket at Motown, she wouldn't anywhere else.

That's what I think too. Berry may have liked her but Syreeta wasn't gonna be told what to do. That's why Stevie fell for her really. She helped to free him from the controls of Motown. Most of Stevie's early attempts at musical freedom can be partially credited to Syreeta's guiding hand. That's why he still calls her the love of his life.

[daviddesper]

I liked Love Fire. Not too much else though I have to admit.

[Boogiedown]

Motown has so many mysteries in regards to people not becoming bigger. But imagine they were no different than any other label in that regard. I'm sure the Atlantics, Columbias, ABC's, Epics and so forth have a number of artists on the label that boggles the mind as to why they weren't successful.

I think that's about right. Plenty of acts vanished without ever making it big. Not to mention the many that had a very short run at success. It's all in the the way the stars line up and there's only so much room at the top.
I guess being a one hit wonder is better than nothing.

[jobeterob]

I think that's about right. Plenty of acts vanished without ever making it big. Not to mention the many that had a very short run at success. It's all in the the way the stars line up and there's only so much room at the top.
I guess being a one hit wonder is better than nothing.

Perfect posts

The road to success of the few is littered with the what if’s and the why didn’t she make its

[Bluebrock]

IDK... seems to me she didn't get promoted enough. All I remembered is she performed on Soul Train [[and probably American Bandstand) during the SWPS period.

Spinning and Spinning and Your Kiss is Sweet were both promoted heavily in the UK but I don't recall Syreeta going there to perform until afterwards? Maybe there was a Top of the Pops performance, I don't know. Maybe the Stevie Wonder drama was too much [[she was divorcing him but was still in good terms with him but Stevie's albums were released and probably pushed hers inadvertently to the background).

I don't think the first album was promoted at all. One to One was too mature, I guess.

I'd like to see what they say about her career on Unsung.
She did perform your kiss is sweet on totp, but i have not seen the performance since the original broadcast. I liked Syreeta but I didn't love her. There is a difference. I am not sure why I wasn't a bigger fan than I am, but her voice never touched me in the way many others did.

[Circa 1824]

She did not make a song pop with excitement the way Queen Ross did.

[TheMotownManiac]

Not even 1% of the acts recorded get any kind of career from recording. Motown was unusual as it was a small family type operation with big dreams, but they exceeded those dreams beyond imagination. If they ”just” had The Sumpremes or The Tempts, or The J5, or or just Stevie they’d have been thrilled, but all that plus The Tops, Smokey, Queen Mary, Martha, Marvelettes, Gladys, Marvin - c’mon, that’s beyond a miracle. And I’m constantly reading how Motown dropped the ball on The Velvelettes, Syreeta, Chris ClRk....whoever......Motown maximized their forces and limited capital better than any record company ever in history - while fighting a hostile white dominated business. People unhappy with Motown were always free to go elsewhere. Some had success like Gladys and The J5.... most didn’t - some got a year or two like The Tops or Spinners.

every company has a president and every president wants things his way. Clive Davis is no different than Berry Gordy. If Jean didn’t want to listen, she was free to return to oblivion - which she did. Everyone else had the same options if they felt they weren’t being treated as they wanted, but often the prevailing thought in these threads is that artists are somehow OWED something by a label. There was lots of interest in Martha but no one could get her into a viable recording act after 1967.

As for Syreeta, Cindy didn’t know her well, but Mary felt “she was too much of a diva - and we had just gotten rid of one.” Of course, what Mary didn’t realize was that SHE wanted to be the Supremes’ diva.......if you ask her today, over cocktails, she will tell you Syreeta may ultimately have been a better choice. It wasn’t a good idea for Jean to be hard to work with Berry - at least until she had proven herself. I believe Syreeta would have been more mailable.

[sup_fan]

Berry was used to he and Motown firmly managing the top groups. the skills and talent to be a great manager is very different from those needed for being a top entertainer. from 64 - 66/67, there definitely was some degree of group management with the top acts. but really it was all about Diana and the Sups. whichever groups could be easily and willingly transformed into that mold, they moved forward. but really it was only the Sups, the Temps and the Tops. Martha got some but her conflicts [[both within her head, within the group and with Motown) led her to being cast aside pretty quickly once the big hits dried up. The Temps went along with it but even they said they were second fiddle to the Sups. had they not brilliantly pushed/collaborated w Norman into the psychedelic soul era, they probably would have seen a slide similar to the Tops.

The miracles had smokey - berry seemed to just let them do their own thing.

And with the Sups, just like Berry was over Flo once she wasn't willing to cooperate with his strategy, with Jean he got the same thing. She was independent and had specific ideas of how she wanted to be presented. At first she went along with everything cuz it was new and exciting. there was a ton of hype. But Gordy was always going to be more involved with Diana and when he saw the conflicts with jean, he figured f it.

[marv2]

Berry was used to he and Motown firmly managing the top groups. the skills and talent to be a great manager is very different from those needed for being a top entertainer. from 64 - 66/67, there definitely was some degree of group management with the top acts. but really it was all about Diana and the Sups. whichever groups could be easily and willingly transformed into that mold, they moved forward. but really it was only the Sups, the Temps and the Tops. Martha got some but her conflicts [[both within her head, within the group and with Motown) led her to being cast aside pretty quickly once the big hits dried up. The Temps went along with it but even they said they were second fiddle to the Sups. had they not brilliantly pushed/collaborated w Norman into the psychedelic soul era, they probably would have seen a slide similar to the Tops.

The miracles had smokey - berry seemed to just let them do their own thing.

And with the Sups, just like Berry was over Flo once she wasn't willing to cooperate with his strategy, with Jean he got the same thing. She was independent and had specific ideas of how she wanted to be presented. At first she went along with everything cuz it was new and exciting. there was a ton of hype. But Gordy was always going to be more involved with Diana and when he saw the conflicts with jean, he figured f it.

Some of what you say is accurate, but there is a lot more to all of this. The Spinners were most cooperative with any and everything Motown asked of them. They even chauffeured around other popular acts waiting for their turn with the companies better songwriters. Their turn never really came at Motown. There also was some of the "Me Too" stuff going around at Motown just like at other companies, but I don't want to get into that I just want that fact to be included. Motown was hugely popular around the World, but yet it was still a small company in terms of staff. I always envision Motown being as big as Sony became had they had the required personnel and resources to handle all of those talented artists that were coming through their doors during their peak! Just among their highest profiled acts like the Supremes and Temptations, they could have spun off 7- 8 successful solo acts and continued to fill in behind them with developing newer groups like the Jackson Five, etc. Many of the artists that were at Motown in the 60s continued on for years and years putting on great concerts and putting out great music after they were no longer with Motown.

By the early 80s, Motown began to suffer from it's earlier inability to develop, promote and retain many of those talented artists. They had fell below a certain level where they could not introduce new quality acts fast enough to make up for those who had left.

[RanRan79]

every company has a president and every president wants things his way. Clive Davis is no different than Berry Gordy. If Jean didn’t want to listen, she was free to return to oblivion - which she did. Everyone else had the same options if they felt they weren’t being treated as they wanted, but often the prevailing thought in these threads is that artists are somehow OWED something by a label.

I don't understand this way of thinking at all. If I take on a job there are certain expectations that I have, such as I expect to be provided with breaks, I expect to be able to do my job unhindered, I expect to be provided with reasonable safety, and I damn sho expect to get paid. Likewise I understand that my employer may expect certain things of me, such as that I be on time, that I stay within the lengths of my allowed breaks, that I perform my job to the satisfaction of the boss, thus contributing to the success of the business.

If I sign a record deal with Motown or any other label, I'm owed the company's attention to me as an artist. I'm owed the company promoting the recordings released. I'm also owed respect and dignity as a human being. Probably that above all else. And what we know about Motown is that they were forever signing artists to contracts, recording most of those acts at least a dozen times, requiring that those acts be present for any and everything the powers that be desire, charging the artists for every little thing, and expecting said artists to hold to the contract that was signed, all the while often failing to do little to no promotion for most of the acts who were recorded and released. And we know Gordy was no stranger to being verbally and physically [[at least in the case of Marvin Gaye) abusive to his employees. But the truth is that while those who wished to go somewhere else were free to do so, they weren't free to do it until their contracts expired. And Motown knew that.

Now of course common sense says that no record label is ever going to be able to turn all artists into stars. But to suggest that a record label doesn't owe it's artists anything is beyond my way of thinking. If I sign with a label I should have a reasonable expectation that the label is going to provide me with what I need to make a successful go at this thing. Now if what I do doesn't vibe with the public, oh well. That's the breaks. Becoming a star is often left up to chance. We all know artists who didn't get much company support and yet still manage to carve out a successful career, just like we all know artists who got tons of company support and didn't do shit with it.

A record label is like any other job in the world. Employees are owed reasonable requests just like any other employee in any other sector.

[midnightman]

That's why Stevie's lawyers and attorneys were so aggressive against Motown's contracts stifling him. They took action.

Imagine if Marvin had done the same thing instead of being told that he was "part of the family".

Syreeta was an indie artist basically at Motown so she may have stayed around due to a very shady contract but was never ever promoted because Motown didn't wanna put money behind her.

I know Stevie was ticked off Motown wasn't putting their all behind her too. I just know it.

[lakeside]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9Mdo06Y2XQ
I think Syreeta had the voice and stage presence to be a Supreme.

[waynesville]

I really enjoyed this thought provoking thread. Rather than reply individudally to half a dozen comments I thought I would merge them into one reply.

Luke - sadly not everyone makes it, and disaapointingly your sucess or failure doesn't relate directly to your talent or lack of it. Not everyone can be number one by definition I guess. Consider all the deep soul artists who made a few records and then, for one reason or another vanished from sight and you think 'how come they were never top stars?' [[Jean Battle, Charlene Southern, Vivilore Jordan and Tommie Young are just four who come to mind)

RanRan 79 - Motown has so many mysteries in regards to people not becoming bigger' True - how on earth they never promoted Carolyn Crawford defeats me. But all labels had their occasional misses, Atlantic dropped the ball with Patti LaBelle and Bettye Swann for example.

TheMotownManiac - 'It wasn’t a good idea for Jean to be hard to work with Berry.' Probably true...but...artists often have difficult temprements and it is the job of the manager to manage this. Look how Jerry Wexler at Atlantic cajoled, nudged, persuaded Aretha in order to get the best out of her.

Sup-fan ' with Jean he got the same thing. She was independent and had specific ideas of how she wanted to be presented.' True, maybe this wasn't a bad thing. Berry Gordy's main fialing was his control freakery. The Supremes simply had to evolve and I don't think he ever understood that. With Jean Terrell he had a top class vocalist who brought more soul - and more than a touch of spirituality - to the group, The fact that Berry hated Stoned Love is really telling in my opinion. Pragmatically of course, you're right. Berry was the boss and what he said went. But he wasn't always right and mishandling Jean was a collossal error IMO.

Marv2 - agree entirely about the Detroit Spinners. At Motown they were very much a secnd rate act and really blossomed at Atlantic when they paired them up with Thom Bell, and it is that time for which they are remembered. Had they not moved they would have achieved very little.

[luke]

If Berry Gordy could handle Diana Ross who slapped him across the face you’d think he could handle Jean!

[honest man]

If Berry Gordy could handle Diana Ross who slapped him across the face you’d think he could handle Jean!here we go again same shit ,different day,If you don not know already Berry Gordy and Diana Ross,were romantically i and what she means to him,and ,listen to his interview Desert Island Discs,where he talks about the love of his life,and im pissed of with myself for replying to your shit,cheers,

[gman]

I think with Jean it may have been a case of not liking the road work after the first 18 months....she came into the group knowing she was taking over a very demanding and high profile position. She was probably willing to do that for a period of time, since the new group needed to establish itself, but perhaps wanted to spend more time at home after having a few successful records. Throughout the groups existence beginning in 1964, they were a road act....constantly touring, doing TV, and only taking breaks to record.
I don't see Syreeta fitting into any group style wise...like Susaye, the voice just seems to work better as a soloist.

[smallworld]

Jerry Wexler may have done x,y,z to get the best out of Dusty Springfield but when sales proved poor... If Aretha hadn't hit commercially, Jerry Wexler's interest in her would have tapered off.

Who can we blame at A&M for not handling Jean Terrell properly?

[robb_k]

14115
Rita Wright [[Syreeta) was an excellent singer. But, I feel that her anthology CD and "The Rita Wright Years" are filled with mediocre songs. I bought her Gordy 45, "I Can't Give Back The Love I Feel For You", which was one of my favourite songs of all time. To me, that was the only good song they ever gave her. She suffered from lack of material at Motown.

[midnightman]

Jerry Wexler may have done x,y,z to get the best out of Dusty Springfield but when sales proved poor... If Aretha hadn't hit commercially, Jerry Wexler's interest in her would have tapered off.

Who can we blame at A&M for not handling Jean Terrell properly?

Maybe at the end of the day, some great vocalists were not meant to be great artists. Aretha definitely had the it factor that the other women didn't have.

That said I'm stumped to why Dusty Springfield never really TOOK OFF here. She had hits and the cultural impact but not like the superstar career here that she enjoyed for a brief while in England.

[midnightman]

Back on topic, I think Syreeta was more an artist than a simple pop singer. She wrote most of her own material and I would look at her as an albums artist. That's the way at least her first three albums went, like Syreeta, SWPS and One to One were more artistic endeavors than someone seeking a hit. It's kinda like Minnie Riperton around this same time though unlike Syreeta, she did manage to score a huge pop hit with "Lovin' You".

[RanRan79]

That's why Stevie's lawyers and attorneys were so aggressive against Motown's contracts stifling him. They took action.

Imagine if Marvin had done the same thing instead of being told that he was "part of the family".

Syreeta was an indie artist basically at Motown so she may have stayed around due to a very shady contract but was never ever promoted because Motown didn't wanna put money behind her.

I know Stevie was ticked off Motown wasn't putting their all behind her too. I just know it.

Yup. People sign recording contracts to become successful. People who sing [[or play instruments, maybe even write songs) who do it as a hobby enter talent shows and contests, join choirs and choruses, gig around on the local circuit. Signing a contract is serious business. It says this is what you hope becomes your livelihood, and for a record label to sign someone and then say "but we aren't obligated to do anything else for you", that's some bullshit. And that's essentially the attitude Motown seems to have had. In addition to that, it was a company that wanted as much control over the artists as possible, and they often achieved that with the contracts.

Stevie is often referred to as a genius musically, but apparently he wasn't lacking in the intelligence department either because his common sense allowed him to figure that he needed legal representation if he were going to be the kind of artist he wanted to be at Motown. One does have to wonder the magic [[more magic) we would have gotten from Marvin had he done the same and not fallen for Motown's bullshit. On the other hand, we also have to wonder how much more magical and successful Motown would have been throughout the 70s if they hadn't continued to fight tooth and nail to exert total creative control over the talented people who were on their roster.

Me thinks Gordy and company were a bit too full of themselves.

[RanRan79]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9Mdo06Y2XQ
I think Syreeta had the voice and stage presence to be a Supreme.

I wouldn't say this is an accurate way of judging her "Supremeness", being about 20 years after her consideration for the group. I'd be curious to see video from about that time. Not that I ever bought that Gordy seriously considered replacing Jean with Syreeta. If the conversation Mary claims took place between her and Gordy the morning after the farewell show is true, I personally think Gordy was being shady and Mary was being stupid and she fell for it.

[RanRan79]

The fact that Berry hated Stoned Love is really telling in my opinion. Pragmatically of course, you're right. Berry was the boss and what he said went. But he wasn't always right and mishandling Jean was a collossal error IMO.

And there it is. Sometimes I do get the feeling that there's a spirit among some of the fandom that Gordy can't be questioned because he was the head of a label that gave us so much terrific music, and ultimately made legit stars of some of them. Gordy did so many things right, and the fact that we spend so much time talking about his record label is a testament to that, but lets not play games. The man made some mistakes. He made some poor decisions. He mishandled situations and people. Call it like it is. That will never take away from the great decisions he's made. No one will ever be able to do that.

[lakeside]

I wouldn't say this is an accurate way of judging her "Supremeness", being about 20 years after her consideration for the group. I'd be curious to see video from about that time. Not that I ever bought that Gordy seriously considered replacing Jean with Syreeta. If the conversation Mary claims took place between her and Gordy the morning after the farewell show is true, I personally think Gordy was being shady and Mary was being stupid and she fell for it.

Yes, you're probably right about seeing some video of her at the time of
the consideration. I always wondered what 'her' spin on joining The Supremes was? I've only heard of Berry's interest and Mary's non-interest.

[midnightman]

Yup. People sign recording contracts to become successful. People who sing [[or play instruments, maybe even write songs) who do it as a hobby enter talent shows and contests, join choirs and choruses, gig around on the local circuit. Signing a contract is serious business. It says this is what you hope becomes your livelihood, and for a record label to sign someone and then say "but we aren't obligated to do anything else for you", that's some bullshit. And that's essentially the attitude Motown seems to have had. In addition to that, it was a company that wanted as much control over the artists as possible, and they often achieved that with the contracts.

Stevie is often referred to as a genius musically, but apparently he wasn't lacking in the intelligence department either because his common sense allowed him to figure that he needed legal representation if he were going to be the kind of artist he wanted to be at Motown. One does have to wonder the magic [[more magic) we would have gotten from Marvin had he done the same and not fallen for Motown's bullshit. On the other hand, we also have to wonder how much more magical and successful Motown would have been throughout the 70s if they hadn't continued to fight tooth and nail to exert total creative control over the talented people who were on their roster.

Me thinks Gordy and company were a bit too full of themselves.

You hit the nail on the head with all of this.

And yeah if I sign a recording contract, I expect for that label to give me all the support they can muster. It's silly to sign someone and then not work with them. And some folks defending Motown's practices in regards to Syreeta here disappoints me. Like they honestly think she should've been happy to stay in a label for more than a decade WITHOUT MUCH SUPPORT?! AYFKM? LOL

You know if you sign a contract, you have to expect to be both artistically and financially able. But this is why it's stressed that many artists seek legal representation as you said. Otherwise, Stevie would've probably been in the same boat as Marvin was.

[midnightman]

I wouldn't say this is an accurate way of judging her "Supremeness", being about 20 years after her consideration for the group. I'd be curious to see video from about that time. Not that I ever bought that Gordy seriously considered replacing Jean with Syreeta. If the conversation Mary claims took place between her and Gordy the morning after the farewell show is true, I personally think Gordy was being shady and Mary was being stupid and she fell for it.

I honestly don't think Syreeta was ever considered to be a Supreme, she was working with Stevie during this time. No way was she gonna just abruptly stop that to get into a glitzy gown and perform Stoned Love!

[RanRan79]

If Berry Gordy could handle Diana Ross who slapped him across the face you’d think he could handle Jean!

But how did he handle Diana Ross? Any unbiased examination of that relationship definitely reveals something that is not the fabled relationship that is popular [[They loved each other, she wanted to please him, he wanted to give her the world, blah, blah, blah). I think this quote from Mary Wilson is very telling:

"Berry was toughest on Diane. He expected the most of her, made her life more difficult than I suppose ours were. Many times people thought he was abusing her. I remember him shouting at her, accusing her of things that she hadn't done. Flo and I would just watch. What could we do? We were just girls; I think we were scared of Berry."

Mary is obviously referring to the 1960s. If the first time Diana Ross knocked the hell out of Berry Gordy was all the way in 1975, I'd say she must have been easily handled, because I know a lot of women who would've fucked him up long before then.

But handling Diana and Jean ultimately came down to one big difference. Gordy was willing to go the distance to give Diana the one thing she seemed to crave the most: stardom. If Mary's words are to be believed, Diana obviously allowed herself to be handled in the most disrespectful of ways, apparently all so that she could sit at the top. Jean proved that she wasn't willing to do any and everything to be at the top, hence why we only got one post Supremes album from her. And while I'm sure Gordy believed in Jean's talent- she wouldn't have been a Supreme otherwise- he had to have known that handling Jean would take a different approach to handling Diana. And part of handling Diana was breaking her off a piece.

I believe he was smart enough to know how to handle Jean. He just chose not to handle her at all.

[RanRan79]

Back on topic, I think Syreeta was more an artist than a simple pop singer. She wrote most of her own material and I would look at her as an albums artist. That's the way at least her first three albums went, like Syreeta, SWPS and One to One were more artistic endeavors than someone seeking a hit. It's kinda like Minnie Riperton around this same time though unlike Syreeta, she did manage to score a huge pop hit with "Lovin' You".

I can agree with this. Syreeta's first two albums [[I haven't heard the third one in it's entirety) definitely fit the new wave of 70s albums being a total package, as opposed to the 60s model of a hit or two being surrounded by filler, often throwaway cuts. Had Motown promoted Syreeta in that vein, she might have caught on.

[marv2]

Her 1980 was her best album in my opinion.

[RanRan79]

Yes, you're probably right about seeing some video of her at the time of
the consideration. I always wondered what 'her' spin on joining The Supremes was? I've only heard of Berry's interest and Mary's non-interest.

You bring up a good point. I don't believe I've ever heard/read Syreeta's account about the idea of her joining the group. I'm curious if anyone else is privy to her side of things.

[RanRan79]

You hit the nail on the head with all of this.

And yeah if I sign a recording contract, I expect for that label to give me all the support they can muster. It's silly to sign someone and then not work with them. And some folks defending Motown's practices in regards to Syreeta here disappoints me. Like they honestly think she should've been happy to stay in a label for more than a decade WITHOUT MUCH SUPPORT?! AYFKM? LOL

You know if you sign a contract, you have to expect to be both artistically and financially able. But this is why it's stressed that many artists seek legal representation as you said. Otherwise, Stevie would've probably been in the same boat as Marvin was.

LOL Yes, that's it! It feels a lot like the sentiment is people should've just been happy to be a Motown artist. Wasn't it Jean Terrell who said she was basically being told that she should be happy with two dollars because she was only making one dollar before [[or something similar to that)? In what other industry is this mentality okay? [[Although let's be real, it does happen in other jobs, although I can't imagine anyone declaring that it's okay.) Why is it good for Motown to demand things of it's artists but a bad idea for the artists to demand things of Motown?

[RanRan79]

I honestly don't think Syreeta was ever considered to be a Supreme, she was working with Stevie during this time. No way was she gonna just abruptly stop that to get into a glitzy gown and perform Stoned Love!

I'm guessing there may have been a moment in 1969 when Gordy was looking for Diana's replacement where he may have toyed with the idea, since the two women did have a similar sound. But there's no way that after the recordings and rehearsals with Jean, and then Gordy introducing Jean to the "world" as Diana's replacement that he would have then kicked Jean to the curb and added Syreeta. The Supremes were still a viable commodity and while Gordy's first priority was Ross' solo career, he still wanted the Supremes' money and he wouldn't have messed with that by pulling that kind of switcharoo and then having to delay everything the Supremes had lined up in order to acclimate Syreeta to the group.

If Gordy called Mary that morning and said he wanted Jean out and Syreeta in, it was because he knew Mary was going to buck against it, thereby giving him a way to turn his prized group over to someone else so he could focus on his soon to be future baby mama. And like I said, Mary fell for it. She should have said "Sure Berry, whatever you want to do". Gordy would have stuttered and stammered, not expecting that response, and then he would've had to call Mary back later and say that he changed his mind again. Because soon enough Jean would give him all the reason he needed to wash his hands of the group.

[BayouMotownMan]

I'm guessing there may have been a moment in 1969 when Gordy was looking for Diana's replacement where he may have toyed with the idea, since the two women did have a similar sound. But there's no way that after the recordings and rehearsals with Jean, and then Gordy introducing Jean to the "world" as Diana's replacement that he would have then kicked Jean to the curb and added Syreeta. The Supremes were still a viable commodity and while Gordy's first priority was Ross' solo career, he still wanted the Supremes' money and he wouldn't have messed with that by pulling that kind of switcharoo and then having to delay everything the Supremes had lined up in order to acclimate Syreeta to the group.

If Gordy called Mary that morning and said he wanted Jean out and Syreeta in, it was because he knew Mary was going to buck against it, thereby giving him a way to turn his prized group over to someone else so he could focus on his soon to be future baby mama. And like I said, Mary fell for it. She should have said "Sure Berry, whatever you want to do". Gordy would have stuttered and stammered, not expecting that response, and then he would've had to call Mary back later and say that he changed his mind again. Because soon enough Jean would give him all the reason he needed to wash his hands of the group.

I enjoy your posts RanRan but no I don't agree with the point about replacing Jean.

Many times BG would second guess himself at the last minute. He did this when it was time to release Mahogany [[wanted to can the whole movie) and on the release of What's Going On and several releases where Diana was concerned. Keep Me Hangin' On was to come out before Can't Hurry Love, but he swapped it.

I think, from talking to Mary and comments made by Cindy, that Gordy was more concerned with getting Diana out of the group with a hit and not paying much attention to Jean's attitude. On the night of Farewell Jean put him in his place, something BG didn't take well especially from a woman. I think he was dead serious about replacing her with Syreeta, without knowing or caring if Syreeta was really interested. I think the main reason Jean was saved was because when he got back to LA he found out Syreeta wanted to marry and work solely with Stevie, not interested in Supremes. The group had it's first single coming out in a few weeks so he was kinda stuck with Jean.

As far as how serious did talks with Syreeta go before deciding on Jean, they didn't go far. There was one meeting between Syreeta with Mary and Cindy, who both had already met Jean, and it was brief and decisive; they wanted Jean Terrell.

[midnightman]

Lol I'm SURE Syreeta told him "I don't wanna do anything with the Supremes, I'm occupied with Stevie now." Don't even think she would've agreed if she wasn't tbh.

It DOES seem tacky for BG to introduce Jean and then later that night tell the remaining girls, "well I think Syreeta can be a good replacement". I don't agree with that part but yeah BG was messy when it came to Motown affairs especially after the '60s.

[RanRan79]

I enjoy your posts RanRan but no I don't agree with the point about replacing Jean.

Many times BG would second guess himself at the last minute. He did this when it was time to release Mahogany [[wanted to can the whole movie) and on the release of What's Going On and several releases where Diana was concerned. Keep Me Hangin' On was to come out before Can't Hurry Love, but he swapped it.

I think, from talking to Mary and comments made by Cindy, that Gordy was more concerned with getting Diana out of the group with a hit and not paying much attention to Jean's attitude. On the night of Farewell Jean put him in his place, something BG didn't take well especially from a woman. I think he was dead serious about replacing her with Syreeta, without knowing or caring if Syreeta was really interested. I think the main reason Jean was saved was because when he got back to LA he found out Syreeta wanted to marry and work solely with Stevie, not interested in Supremes. The group had it's first single coming out in a few weeks so he was kinda stuck with Jean.

As far as how serious did talks with Syreeta go before deciding on Jean, they didn't go far. There was one meeting between Syreeta with Mary and Cindy, who both had already met Jean, and it was brief and decisive; they wanted Jean Terrell.

Thanks Bayou. I get Gordy second guessing himself, but that kind of change seems like such a big risk to take with so much money on the line. But if he really wanted Jean out, your scenario of Jean putting Berry in his place the night of the farewell certainly makes the whole thing make sense. For whatever reason, Berry seems to have dealt much better with the strong men signed to Motown as opposed to the strong women. He just didn't seem to like too many of them standing up to him in anyway. Diana probably got away with it more than any other woman because she was the queen of Motown. So I can definitely believe Gordy wanting to take drastic action if he realized that Jean wasn't afraid to send back whatever he was serving. This is a new piece of the puzzle for me.

I wonder if this was the incident Cindy talked about when she said all the smiles after the farewell show were fake because there was a big blowup afterwards?

[RanRan79]

Does anyone think that the 70s Supremes' singles success would've been different had Syreeta replaced Diana? I wonder if Gordy would've let Syreeta write for the group. Perhaps the Supremes Stevie Wonder album would've happened very early on. I believe Jean's voice was a big part of the Supremes' continued success, but would the public have thought the same if Syreeta was singing "Up the Ladder" and "Stoned Love"? I'm just throwing thoughts out there as they cross my mind. Don't mind me.:o

[midnightman]

Susaye was a writer too. She should've been allowed to write for the Supremes [[well she never had a chance since the group just abruptly ended a year after she joined) but I doubt that in Syreeta's expense. She loved her freedom and signing with the Supremes would've made her forced to sing whatever songs she was given. And considering she had huge success with songs like "Signed, Sealed, Delivered [[I'm Yours)" and "It's a Shame" as a songwriter, not to mention singing and collaborating with Stevie, inspiring him to be more creative, I don't think she could've swallowed not being able to be in control. No way.

If she had went with the Supremes, I fear it may have changed the course of pop music history. Syreeta was where she was at because of fate. It was fate that she and Stevie work together [[and fall in love). It wasn't her fate to be a Supreme.

[Circa 1824]

[QUOTE=RanRan79;450343]Thanks Bayou. I get Gordy second guessing himself, but that kind of change seems like such a big risk to take with so much money on the line. But if he really wanted Jean out, your scenario of Jean putting Berry in his place


Jean was a lousy choice considering she was merely pleasant as a performer replacing one of the greatest entertainers in history. Cindy and Mary were an average backdrop that needed a powerhouse leading superstar. It was not Jean, and probably not Syreeta.

[midnightman]

ANYWAY, Syreeta, IMHO, was a great artist and IMHO she had great material. I will not stand for anyone dismissing her work lol

I'll just post some Syreeta music. This is not Supremes.com!!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OM3Vjxs6Xao

Loved the ending where Stevie comes in with the voice of what sounds like a greedy shark lol

Syreeta is actually doing multi-tracked leads [[a'la Marvin) in this song. Deniece Williams can be heard near the ending with her vocal trills.

[RanRan79]

It wasn't her fate to be a Supreme.

And for that I am so thankful.;)

[RanRan79]

ANYWAY, Syreeta, IMHO, was a great artist and IMHO she had great material. I will not stand for anyone dismissing her work lol

I'll just post some Syreeta music. This is not Supremes.com!!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OM3Vjxs6Xao

Loved the ending where Stevie comes in with the voice of what sounds like a greedy shark lol

Syreeta is actually doing multi-tracked leads [[a'la Marvin) in this song. Deniece Williams can be heard near the ending with her vocal trills.

She did some great work. I'm just not a fan of her voice. But you posted one of my favs. I LOVE "Spinnin and Spinnin". I've played that one to death.

[BayouMotownMan]

Thanks Bayou. I get Gordy second guessing himself, but that kind of change seems like such a big risk to take with so much money on the line. But if he really wanted Jean out, your scenario of Jean putting Berry in his place the night of the farewell certainly makes the whole thing make sense. For whatever reason, Berry seems to have dealt much better with the strong men signed to Motown as opposed to the strong women. He just didn't seem to like too many of them standing up to him in anyway. Diana probably got away with it more than any other woman because she was the queen of Motown. So I can definitely believe Gordy wanting to take drastic action if he realized that Jean wasn't afraid to send back whatever he was serving. This is a new piece of the puzzle for me.

I wonder if this was the incident Cindy talked about when she said all the smiles after the farewell show were fake because there was a big blowup afterwards?

Yep that was the reference. Mary and Cindy went back to LA assuming that Berry would insist on Jean being fired. They were ready for the fight, but it never happened.

[RanRan79]

Here's another favorite. "I'm Goin Left".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9MoNcynZ7c

[RanRan79]

And another that I LOVE..."Cause We've Ended Now As Lovers".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r864hzKbFfw

[BayouMotownMan]

I have to respectfully disagree Circa. I was 14 yrs old when it was announced Diana was leaving the Supremes and being replaced by Jean Terrell. My instinct was what? Jean who? They can't continue without Diana Ross. Most of America felt Diana WAS the Supremes. Even Jean admitted that a few years after she left the group. Jean said the Supremes image was really Diana's image, she had created it.

But by being totally different than Diana, Jean Terrell won mass success in 1970. She was technically a better singer, far more inventive than Ross. Critics took an unexpected liking to Jean Terrell and for two years they were more popular than Diana. It took LSTB to get Diana back in the public eye, which unfortunately sealed the fate of the Jean Supremes.

Watch the Jean Terrell debut on Sullivan. The crowd went wild for them.


Jean was a lousy choice considering she was merely pleasant as a performer replacing one of the greatest entertainers in history. Cindy and Mary were an average backdrop that needed a powerhouse leading superstar. It was not Jean, and probably not Syreeta.[/QUOTE]

[RanRan79]

How the hell do you get the video to show up in the post? I should know this but I don't. Sue me.:p

[midnightman]

And another that I LOVE..."Cause We've Ended Now As Lovers".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r864hzKbFfw

Now THAT was the song. I look at almost that entire album as Syreeta's response to Talking Book lol

But of course Stevie produced it so that creates a conflict of interest. :rolleyes: LOL they worked well together.

[midnightman]

How the hell do you get the video to show up in the post? I should know this but I don't. Sue me.:p

Use the tags and put the URL in between and the video will be embedded.

[RanRan79]

Now THAT was the song. I look at almost that entire album as Syreeta's response to Talking Book lol

But of course Stevie produced it so that creates a conflict of interest. :rolleyes: LOL they worked well together.

That's a great way to look at it. Lol

[RanRan79]

Use the tags and put the URL in between and the video will be embedded.

Call me dumb but I still couldn't figure out how to do it. Oh well, I'll stick to copy and paste. Lol

[sansradio]

Call me dumb but I still couldn't figure out how to do it. Oh well, I'll stick to copy and paste. Lol

Ran, if you're on a PC or laptop, when replying to a message, click the "filmstrip" icon on the toolbar when you want to embed a video link. From a phone, you have to select "view full site" to access this function, as far as I know.

[marv2]

You hit the nail on the head with all of this.

And yeah if I sign a recording contract, I expect for that label to give me all the support they can muster. It's silly to sign someone and then not work with them. And some folks defending Motown's practices in regards to Syreeta here disappoints me. Like they honestly think she should've been happy to stay in a label for more than a decade WITHOUT MUCH SUPPORT?! AYFKM? LOL

You know if you sign a contract, you have to expect to be both artistically and financially able. But this is why it's stressed that many artists seek legal representation as you said. Otherwise, Stevie would've probably been in the same boat as Marvin was.

Ok, help me out. What does AYFKM mean? Oh wait, I think I got it! LOL

[marv2]

People always say shit like Berry Gordy had the right to just run over people LOL! I don't think we'll ever know why Syreeta was kept at the label for so long.

Today, an artist had better make a reasonable showing their first time out or they are dropped! Ms. Jean Terrell made a spectacular showing with her first outing with the Supremes, so Berry had to shut up! She and the Supremes were making him money.

[Circa 1824]

Diana built such a huge legacy that the new group was bound to make money regardless of who led the group. Heck's fire, Wilson's ability to make money in 2018 is still based on Diana's vocals, glamour, and diva status from 50 years ago.

I do wish Wilson's shows would only feature her backup vocals from that era. I would love to see an entire concert of her ooooh's and ahaaaa's only [[can you imagine LOL) instead of her karaoke stabs at Diana's classic vocals.

Keep it real, Mary. Sing your part in your shows, and let Diana sing her part in her shows. I don't see any Vandellas running all over the world singing Martha's lead vocals. Martha would strangle them. hahahaha

[midnightman]

The only reason I can explain why Syreeta stayed in a label for almost 20 years was due to the empty promises given to Syreeta that Motown would make her a STAR...

She joined Motown in 1967 and stayed until 1985...

That's a lifetime in dog years.

Anyway, here's another favorite SW song from the early '80s:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qX4-wGu7N1s

[marv2]

The only reason I can explain why Syreeta stayed in a label for almost 20 years was due to the empty promises given to Syreeta that Motown would make her a STAR...

She joined Motown in 1967 and stayed until 1985...

That's a lifetime in dog years.

Anyway, here's another favorite SW song from the early '80s:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qX4-wGu7N1s

You ever noticed that Syreeta was not featured, shown or even mentioned in any of the Motown Anniversary television specials over the years?

[johnjeb]

I have or had all of Syreeta's albums. Her first album is one of my all-time favorites from Motown. However, each subsequent release I liked less than the previous. That may have been because I didn't give each album a proper listening - that's on me. But none of the albums grabbed me like the first and, to some degree, the second.

After her second album was released, I saw Syreeta in a small club. I was prepared for an earthy performer, similar to the pic on her first album cover. I was surprised when I got to the club and saw a baby grand piano on the postage-stamp-sized stage. [[I had been to this club a few times and it was always bare-bones mics, drum set and amplifiers - not pretty.) There was warm lighting and flowers and the band in fancy suits - very impressive. She came out to "I'm Going Left", if I recall, followed by a few songs from her second album. She looked radiant and the stage lighting was superb. I was very impressed with the mood that was set and the style of the show. It felt, to some degree, like I was at a Diana Ross show. That's all I recall, some 40 years later, nothing else stands out.

That said, once I learned in later years - and I can't remember if it was in the 70s, or when Mary's biography came out in the 80s - that Syreeta was once considered to replace Diana, or Jean, in The Supremes, have I ever said 'Wow! that would have been great'. I liked Syreeta's voice, but, for certain material. I just can't hear her voice as a Supreme, no matter how hard I try.

As for her staying with Motown for so many years without much success it may have worked for both sides. The Motown stable of artists seems to be similar to the movie studios in the early days of motion pictures when actors and actresses were signed to a studio and locked into deals with only that studio. Some actors were signed with a particular project in mind but it may have never materialized and they were left sitting. I've read so many stories of songwriters and performers whose hands were tied by their contracts. Syreeta may have been in such a situation. She may have lasted at Motown because she was a songwriter in addition to her being a performer. Maybe she had multiple contracts as we so often have learned about those who had many talents.

I was 20 when Diana left The Supremes. I remember once I found out she was leaving I couldn't wait. I felt she needed to grow as a performer without being tied to a group. I also felt The Supremes needed to become a group again.

[luke]

Wasn’t Syreeta on Motown 25 but not shown in final broadcast a la Ashford and Simpson? I find all of this Berry/ Jean stuff a bit mysterious. What exactly happened?She spoke her mind? Well in the 70s so did Syreeta, Mary, Gladys, Stevie, Marvin and Martha. Why was Jean so focused on?

[marv2]

Wasn’t Syreeta on Motown 25 but not shown in final broadcast a la Ashford and Simpson? I find all of this Berry/ Jean stuff a bit mysterious. What exactly happened?She spoke her mind? Well in the 70s so did Syreeta, Mary, Gladys, Stevie, Marvin and Martha. Why was Jean so focused on?

I did't see a clue of Syreeta on Motown 25. I think I saw a woman that looked like her in the audience during one of the standing ovations. I am sure I have mentioned this before. It is not even all that complicated. Mr. Gordy had shown a special "interest" in Miss Terrell. Miss Terrell [[and her brothers) weren't having it! So............... hehehehehehehe! It had nothing to do with her mind. LOL!!!!

[luke]

Ooooohhhhh!

[PeaceNHarmony]

Syreeta really did not have any personality nor individualism of voice. A lovely singer, yes. A star, no.

[midnightman]

You ever noticed that Syreeta was not featured, shown or even mentioned in any of the Motown Anniversary television specials over the years?

Yeah, pretty much.

[marv2]

Ooooohhhhh!

I know right?

[marv2]

Yeah, pretty much.

If you were not a Motown fan, Stevie Wonder fan or what have you and going by that omission alone, it's like Syreeta never existed to the general record buying public. Younger people today, those 30 and under don't know who Paul McCartney is.

[marv2]

Does anyone think that the 70s Supremes' singles success would've been different had Syreeta replaced Diana? I wonder if Gordy would've let Syreeta write for the group. Perhaps the Supremes Stevie Wonder album would've happened very early on. I believe Jean's voice was a big part of the Supremes' continued success, but would the public have thought the same if Syreeta was singing "Up the Ladder" and "Stoned Love"? I'm just throwing thoughts out there as they cross my mind. Don't mind me.:o

Berry Gordy was never going to put Syreeta Wright in the Supremes. He just threw that out there when he got pissed at Jean. He did that often when he got angry. "Flo you are too fat", "Mary you know you can't sing", "Otis, get rid of him [[Damon Harris), I don't like his attitude"etc, He even made Suzanne DePasse crawl across the conference room floor on her hands and knees in front of everyone

If he really believed that Syreeta would be good for the Supremes, he would have just put her in the group, after all she was already signed to Motown. Instead he went outside of the company on a search which is how she "discovered" Jean Terrell. There is all kind of misinformation I've seen on this forum in recent years since many of the SDF old timers stopped posting.

[midnightman]

If you were not a Motown fan, Stevie Wonder fan or what have you and going by that omission alone, it's like Syreeta never existed to the general record buying public. Younger people today, those 30 and under don't know who Paul McCartney is.

Hmm, I don't know about that part lol

Sure it may not be to the degree where everyone my age and younger know but I think a good chunk of young music fans know who Paul McCartney is. If not from his actual music, they've read about the Beatles.

[RanRan79]

Hmm, I don't know about that part lol

Sure it may not be to the degree where everyone my age and younger know but I think a good chunk of young music fans know who Paul McCartney is. If not from his actual music, they've read about the Beatles.

Yeah, sometimes I wonder if some of the older folks spend much time around younger people because I see these kinds of comments all the time. Young people don't know who the Beatles are, young people don't know who Diana Ross is, etc. The Beatles, Diana Ross, Elvis, the Temptations, the Supremes, Marvin Gaye, Rolling Stones, Aretha Franklin...these are among the most legendary artists that have ever walked the face of the earth. Their influence- believe it or not- lives in some of the current popular acts. They all also were huge during the age of television, so their performances have been seen millions of times on TV, the internet, movies, etc. Young folks know who these people are, the same way when we were teens and 20s we knew who the legendary artists were whose time had probably passed.

[marv2]

Hmm, I don't know about that part lol

Sure it may not be to the degree where everyone my age and younger know but I think a good chunk of young music fans know who Paul McCartney is. If not from his actual music, they've read about the Beatles.

After the 2012 Grammy Awards, WBAB a very popular New York radio station had a call in special so that listeners could comment on the Grammys the night before. Several called in an asked "Who was Paul McCartney?" some even complimented Kanye West for giving "that old guy" a chance to record with him, etc,etc. I was shocked, the DJs were shocked. After i thought about it I was like why would these kids know Paul McCartney? He hadn't had anything on the radio that was popular for many, many years and he is in his mid 70s. I wasn't listening to artists of that age when I was in my teens, 20s, 30s etc..

Paul McCartney was even denied entrance to Tyga's Grammy After Party and the door security did not know who he was even after he and a few in his entourage told him!

[marv2]

Yeah, sometimes I wonder if some of the older folks spend much time around younger people because I see these kinds of comments all the time. Young people don't know who the Beatles are, young people don't know who Diana Ross is, etc. The Beatles, Diana Ross, Elvis, the Temptations, the Supremes, Marvin Gaye, Rolling Stones, Aretha Franklin...these are among the most legendary artists that have ever walked the face of the earth. Their influence- believe it or not- lives in some of the current popular acts. They all also were huge during the age of television, so their performances have been seen millions of times on TV, the internet, movies, etc. Young folks know who these people are, the same way when we were teens and 20s we knew who the legendary artists were whose time had probably passed.

They do not know them and I was shocked when that realization hit me. If I can find it again, I will post a video of a popular 29 year old DJ from Baltimore. He is African American. In the video he is chatting with his female sidekick before a guest Hip Hop artist came on. I can't remember how it came up, but he complimented Diana Ross for something and then the female said yeah she had a lot of songs. Then he repeated what she had said and tried, but could not name even ONE Diana Ross song or one by The Supremes! I was shocked.

[marv2]

We knew who Bing Crosby was when I was 17 because of his Christmas specials on TV. Back then we only had 3 television networks and no cable, so you pretty much watched whatever your parents watched when they were home.
Not today! These kids don't even know who the other kids are that live on their blocks because they spend more time on their apps ,etc than socializing in real time.

[marv2]

Ok check this out:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKKgryvmDMw

[marv2]

Now really check this out!!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNMP-Pdz5wI

[TomatoTom123]

Erm I know who Paul McCartney is lol. I think everyone knows The Beatles, don't they? Especially in the UK. And I reckon most young people here know Marvin Gaye. Even if it is through the Charlie Puth song "Marvin Gaye"... :rolleyes:

[TomatoTom123]

We knew who Bing Crosby was when I was 17 because of his Christmas specials on TV. Back then we only had 3 television networks and no cable, so you pretty much watched whatever your parents watched when they were home.
Not today! These kids don't even know who the other kids are that live on their blocks because they spend more time on their apps ,etc than socializing in real time.

You know sometimes I don't even know who I am because I'm too busy staring lifelessly at my phone screen. On the very rare occasion that I do look up from this phone screen, to perhaps catch a glance of another human being, I have a sudden panic attack. This because my social skills have deteriorated to the point where I can no longer interact with other people. I can only communicate via text message or social media platforms. And on those I mostly write in emojis. :p

Sent from my iPhone

[marv2]

You know sometimes I don't even know who I am because I'm too busy staring lifelessly at my phone screen. On the very rare occasion that I do look up from this phone screen, to perhaps catch a glance of another human being, I have a sudden panic attack. This because my social skills have deteriorated to the point where I can no longer interact with other people. I can only communicate via text message or social media platforms. And on those I mostly write in emojis. :p

Sent from my iPhone

I've watched a train full of people, in New York of all places become almost completely silent with everyone looking down at their Smart phones. I have seen teenagers sitting across from one another texting back and forth and not speaking. I guess they really wanted their privacy. LOL!

[marv2]

Erm I know who Paul McCartney is lol. I think everyone knows The Beatles, don't they? Especially in the UK. And I reckon most young people here know Marvin Gaye. Even if it is through the Charlie Puth song "Marvin Gaye"... :rolleyes:

Nope! There are plenty of young people that do not know who the Beatles were. They don't read about them, they don't tune into Oldies stations to hear them and they do not see them on television. Add to the fact that kids don't talk to their parents and vice versa much anymore. You might find the odd kid or young person that knows them and that will only be because they have a parent or grandparent that is a big Beatles fan.

[marv2]

One more example. This song, "Ain't Nobody" has gotten 309 million views on Youtube. Guess what? From the comments it is clear that most did not know that it was a remake of the Rufus featuring Chaka Khan hit from 1983! They had to be told!!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5j1RCys4R0g

[marv2]

Erm I know who Paul McCartney is lol. I think everyone knows The Beatles, don't they? Especially in the UK. And I reckon most young people here know Marvin Gaye. Even if it is through the Charlie Puth song "Marvin Gaye"... :rolleyes:

A lot of them know who Marvin Gaye was now because of that lawsuit! Why do you think Robin Thicke and Pharrell were so embolden to put a record like "Blurred Lines" out? They thought that their audiences would not have known about the Marvin Gaye song and that everyone would have forgotten about "Got to Give It Up"!

[sup_fan]

I enjoy your posts RanRan but no I don't agree with the point about replacing Jean.

Many times BG would second guess himself at the last minute. He did this when it was time to release Mahogany [[wanted to can the whole movie) and on the release of What's Going On and several releases where Diana was concerned. Keep Me Hangin' On was to come out before Can't Hurry Love, but he swapped it.

I think, from talking to Mary and comments made by Cindy, that Gordy was more concerned with getting Diana out of the group with a hit and not paying much attention to Jean's attitude. On the night of Farewell Jean put him in his place, something BG didn't take well especially from a woman. I think he was dead serious about replacing her with Syreeta, without knowing or caring if Syreeta was really interested. I think the main reason Jean was saved was because when he got back to LA he found out Syreeta wanted to marry and work solely with Stevie, not interested in Supremes. The group had it's first single coming out in a few weeks so he was kinda stuck with Jean.

As far as how serious did talks with Syreeta go before deciding on Jean, they didn't go far. There was one meeting between Syreeta with Mary and Cindy, who both had already met Jean, and it was brief and decisive; they wanted Jean Terrell.

wow. makes you wonder what the heck was going on during that last Farewell performance to piss Jean off and make her piss Gordy off. Cindy does mention that after all the tears and smiles, there was a big snit about something backstage. Can only imagine what it was!!

[RanRan79]

Ran, if you're on a PC or laptop, when replying to a message, click the "filmstrip" icon on the toolbar when you want to embed a video link. From a phone, you have to select "view full site" to access this function, as far as I know.

Got it!! Thanks Sans!!

[marv2]

wow. makes you wonder what the heck was going on during that last Farewell performance to piss Jean off and make her piss Gordy off. Cindy does mention that after all the tears and smiles, there was a big snit about something backstage. Can only imagine what it was!!

Read above for what happened in one of my posts.

[midnightman]

Paul McCartney and Marvin Gaye are LEGENDS.

Syreeta is only known to music aficionados and Motown stans [[like myself). BIG DIFFERENCE.

[midnightman]

After the 2012 Grammy Awards, WBAB a very popular New York radio station had a call in special so that listeners could comment on the Grammys the night before. Several called in an asked "Who was Paul McCartney?" some even complimented Kanye West for giving "that old guy" a chance to record with him, etc,etc. I was shocked, the DJs were shocked. After i thought about it I was like why would these kids know Paul McCartney? He hadn't had anything on the radio that was popular for many, many years and he is in his mid 70s. I wasn't listening to artists of that age when I was in my teens, 20s, 30s etc..

Paul McCartney was even denied entrance to Tyga's Grammy After Party and the door security did not know who he was even after he and a few in his entourage told him!

Yeah, find a few ignorant youngsters who have no clue who Paul is like that's a sign he don't have influence in today's scene. You do know Paul is a ROCK legend? Of course Tyga's pedophile ass don't know who he is. Don't generalize the youth like that, man.

[midnightman]

Erm I know who Paul McCartney is lol. I think everyone knows The Beatles, don't they? Especially in the UK. And I reckon most young people here know Marvin Gaye. Even if it is through the Charlie Puth song "Marvin Gaye"... :rolleyes:

Don't forget "Marvin Gaye and Chardonnay"...lol
Jay Z mentioned him in Dust Off Your Shoulders [["I'm like a young Marvin in his hey")
T.I. mentioned him a few times [["Rubberband Man" and "Trouble Man")
His music is still sampled to this day [[John Legend sampled his "If I Should Die Tonight" for "Who Do We Think We Are"; Avant virtually copied elements of the same song for "You & I")
Let's Get It On is played on several YouTube channels [[including Troye Sivan's, the young gay pop singer; he had that song played on some of his videos) and commercials...

Unless your music is stuck on ONE GENRE only, they know who the heck Marvin Gaye is.

[midnightman]

ANYWAY, drifting off topic again. And how did Paul McCartney and Marvin even get into this thread? LOL

Here's another favorite song from Syreeta:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blzCFoggU04

[sansradio]

Got it!! Thanks Sans!!

No worries. buddy!

[midnightman]

Syreeta's take on her and Stevie's Blame It on the Sun from her self-titled 1980 album:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrz-pGUEOBw

[sup_fan]

Read above for what happened in one of my posts.

I've heard rumors in the past about Berry making a pass at Jean and her telling him no. Never seen anything really substantiated about it and it's always struck me as a bit far fetched. No slight to Jean but she's hardly the most beautiful woman at Motown. looking at some of the various women that have been connected to him, she just doesn't strike me as his type.

[midnightman]

Berry was a pig. Duh.

Syreeta [[with Jermaine in the background) covering a classic J5 song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxMSbMrDSMY

[marv2]

Paul McCartney and Marvin Gaye are LEGENDS.

Syreeta is only known to music aficionados and Motown stans [[like myself). BIG DIFFERENCE.

The are legends, however they are now known mostly to people over 45 years old. I also agree about Syreeta.

[marv2]

I've heard rumors in the past about Berry making a pass at Jean and her telling him no. Never seen anything really substantiated about it and it's always struck me as a bit far fetched. No slight to Jean but she's hardly the most beautiful woman at Motown. looking at some of the various women that have been connected to him, she just doesn't strike me as his type.

Jean was quite sought after once she joined the Supremes. Many of the guys at Motown flirted with her. She even started dating one of the most famous professional athletes in the World during the early 70s, none other than Walt "Clyde" Frazier of the New York Knicks! She dated famed songwriter Allen Toussaint, [[he wrote songs such as "Lady Marmalade" for LaBelle, "Southern Nights" for Glen Campbell,etc.) No, she wasn't a World class, Miss Universe level beauty like Mary Wilson [[smiling here) LOL, but Jean Terrell was a good looking woman in a very high profile job!

[marv2]

I've heard rumors in the past about Berry making a pass at Jean and her telling him no. Never seen anything really substantiated about it and it's always struck me as a bit far fetched. No slight to Jean but she's hardly the most beautiful woman at Motown. looking at some of the various women that have been connected to him, she just doesn't strike me as his type.

I have met Jean and she is a good looking woman. You can ask Ralph. He was the person that picked her up from the airport and brought her to Motown in Detroit when she first joined the Supremes.

[midnightman]

Syreeta performing "Your Kiss is Sweet" in London, 1989


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5z0vKfpG5dg

[marv2]

Syreeta's take on her and Stevie's Blame It on the Sun from her self-titled 1980 album:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrz-pGUEOBw

That was her best album. She did a bang up job on Arlene Smiths/Chantels "He's Gone" on that album.

[marv2]

Yeah, find a few ignorant youngsters who have no clue who Paul is like that's a sign he don't have influence in today's scene. You do know Paul is a ROCK legend? Of course Tyga's pedophile ass don't know who he is. Don't generalize the youth like that, man.

You had to go there about Tyga? No younger people and especially young African Americas do not know who Paul McCartney or the Beatles are. They just don't. I know he is a Rock legend, but I was around to see them on the Ed Sullivan Show, I didn't know what all the screaming was about, but my brother and I use to sing Beatles songs in the back seat of my father's car when we were little kids and he'd tell us to "shut up that racket" LOL!

I am not generalizing. Paul McCartney [[and others) have ages out of today's Pop Culture. Even the collaboration with Kanye West did little to improve his notoriety with the under 35 crowd.

[midnightman]

^ Lol you expect me to get Tyga any respect. Dude can't even rap. Not a good example of "the youngsters of today". Plus technically I'm IN that generation you claim don't know who Marvin is lmao

ANYWAYS... more Syreeta!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00huE5wYt4w

My fave from the One to One album.

[marv2]

^ Lol you expect me to get Tyga any respect. Dude can't even rap. Not a good example of "the youngsters of today". Plus technically I'm IN that generation you claim don't know who Marvin is lmao

ANYWAYS... more Syreeta!




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00huE5wYt4w

My fave from the One to One album.

You are not reading my posts correctly. I said that there are few that know these older artists for other reasons than hearing them on the radio, seeing them on television or reading about them.

I liked Syreeta, but I liked Carolyn Crawford more! LOL!

[luke]

And I like Barbara Randolph! Lol

[marv2]

And I like Barbara Randolph! Lol

I liked Barbara's work with the Platters.

[RanRan79]

I've heard rumors in the past about Berry making a pass at Jean and her telling him no. Never seen anything really substantiated about it and it's always struck me as a bit far fetched. No slight to Jean but she's hardly the most beautiful woman at Motown. looking at some of the various women that have been connected to him, she just doesn't strike me as his type.

I've never heard that either. I wonder who told Marv? Not that he'll tell us who told him.:rolleyes:

However, I don't think Gordy really had a type. And even if he did, type means nothing if you hope to use sex as a power to wield over the head of your employee. So I wouldn't be surprised to learn that this is what happened between he and Jean. On the other hand, until I hear Jean or Gordy confirm this, I'll slide it into the "theory" category since there's no evidence that it is fact.

[RanRan79]

Jean was quite sought after once she joined the Supremes. Many of the guys at Motown flirted with her. She even started dating one of the most famous professional athletes in the World during the early 70s, none other than Walt "Clyde" Frazier of the New York Knicks! She dated famed songwriter Allen Toussaint, [[he wrote songs such as "Lady Marmalade" for LaBelle, "Southern Nights" for Glen Campbell,etc.) No, she wasn't a World class, Miss Universe level beauty like Mary Wilson [[smiling here) LOL, but Jean Terrell was a good looking woman in a very high profile job!

Jean was a very pretty woman IMO. The Supremes look wasn't always flattering to her, but then that's true for every Supreme. And in addition to being pretty, she also carried herself with a regal air that I personally find sexy.

[midnightman]

-_-

This is not about Jean Terrell or Diana Ross or Florence Ballard or Paul McCartney or Berry Gordy or Tyga.

Jeez Louise...

When it comes to this site, it's Team Supremes or FOH I guess lmao

[TomatoTom123]

Don't generalize the youth like that, man.

Thank you midnight. Do I have the right to be offended here? Arrrrggh this generalisation bs has gotten to me.

[TomatoTom123]

Nope! There are plenty of young people that do not know who the Beatles were. They don't read about them, they don't tune into Oldies stations to hear them and they do not see them on television. Add to the fact that kids don't talk to their parents and vice versa much anymore. You might find the odd kid or young person that knows them and that will only be because they have a parent or grandparent that is a big Beatles fan.

Young people don't talk to their parents anymore!!? What!!!!!? Aaarrrrggggh, Marv can I just say — I AM A YOUNG PERSON — and, yes, I talk to my parents, I talk to other young people, in fact, here I am discussing old music with you on an Internet forum. Mind BLOWN. I know who The Beatles are, and not because my family are megafans. People my age know who people like Marvin and Stevie are.

This generalising is so negative and I'm so annoyed and holy moly this has ticked me off. Is this ageism or what? Am I going mad here?!!! pfffffff

[midnightman]

Thank you midnight. Do I have the right to be offended here? Arrrrggh this generalisation bs has gotten to me.

You're welcome. I got tired of it too. People who get older think they can speak against the youth as if they don't know better... you can tell who talks to the youth and who doesn't in here.

[marv2]

I've never heard that either. I wonder who told Marv? Not that he'll tell us who told him.:rolleyes:

However, I don't think Gordy really had a type. And even if he did, type means nothing if you hope to use sex as a power to wield over the head of your employee. So I wouldn't be surprised to learn that this is what happened between he and Jean. On the other hand, until I hear Jean or Gordy confirm this, I'll slide it into the "theory" category since there's no evidence that it is fact.

Get outta dodge! I'm not telling you that.

[marv2]

Young people don't talk to their parents anymore!!? What!!!!!? Aaarrrrggggh, Marv can I just say — I AM A YOUNG PERSON — and, yes, I talk to my parents, I talk to other young people, in fact, here I am discussing old music with you on an Internet forum. Mind BLOWN. I know who The Beatles are, and not because my family are megafans. People my age know who people like Marvin and Stevie are.

This generalising is so negative and I'm so annoyed and holy moly this has ticked me off. Is this ageism or what? Am I going mad here?!!! pfffffff

Not in America. Kids do not talk to their parents very much about anything anymore.......

[marv2]

Young people don't talk to their parents anymore!!? What!!!!!? Aaarrrrggggh, Marv can I just say — I AM A YOUNG PERSON — and, yes, I talk to my parents, I talk to other young people, in fact, here I am discussing old music with you on an Internet forum. Mind BLOWN. I know who The Beatles are, and not because my family are megafans. People my age know who people like Marvin and Stevie are.

This generalising is so negative and I'm so annoyed and holy moly this has ticked me off. Is this ageism or what? Am I going mad here?!!! pfffffff

You can make up a name for it if you want to. You can take it as highly offensive too. I just know that kids today do not listen to older artists. They listen to the artists of their generation which is why you videos by people Taylor Swift, Bruno Mars with over 300 million views!

[RanRan79]

Get outta dodge! I'm not telling you that.

Duh, that's exactly what I said at the beginning of my post. I know you never reveal your sources, real or imagined.

[midnightman]

Not in America. Kids do not talk to their parents very much about anything anymore.......

WE'RE AMERICANS! What are you smoking, B? LOL

You just need to stop.

Like I said, stop comparing Syreeta to legends who have been far better known. This thread is about why Syreeta never got ahead, not why Marvin or Paul McCartney can't related to some already has-been rapper blocking a Beatle from a club entrance.

[marv2]

WE'RE AMERICANS! What are you smoking, B? LOL

You just need to stop.

Like I said, stop comparing Syreeta to legends who have been far better known. This thread is about why Syreeta never got ahead, not why Marvin or Paul McCartney can't related to some already has-been rapper blocking a Beatle from a club entrance.

I thought TomatoTom was from the U.K.? In any case what I said still stands. Kids do not talk as much with their parents today as in the past. Also, no one can compare to Syreeta. LOL!

[TomatoTom123]

You can make up a name for it if you want to. You can take it as highly offensive too. I just know that kids today do not listen to older artists. They listen to the artists of their generation which is why you videos by people Taylor Swift, Bruno Mars with over 300 million views!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ageism

"I can take it as highly offensive"... thank you Marv I appreciate your gift

Now while I don't disagree that most young people are listening to artists of their generation, this is no difference to previous generations, surely? If YouTube had been around in the 60s, The Beatles and The Supremes would have been hitting those 300 million views. And it doesn't mean they can't listen or know older artists.

:rolleyes:

[TomatoTom123]

You're welcome. I got tired of it too. People who get older think they can speak against the youth as if they don't know better... you can tell who talks to the youth and who doesn't in here.

Exactly midnight :)

[TomatoTom123]

WE'RE AMERICANS! What are you smoking, B? LOL

You just need to stop.

Like I said, stop comparing Syreeta to legends who have been far better known. This thread is about why Syreeta never got ahead, not why Marvin or Paul McCartney can't related to some already has-been rapper blocking a Beatle from a club entrance.


I thought TomatoTom was from the U.K.? In any case what I said still stands. Kids do not talk as much with their parents today as in the past. Also, no one can compare to Syreeta. LOL!

I think midnight was just saying, in response to "American parents and kids don't talk to each other", that "they're Americans, so that's ridiculous!" not that myself and midnight were American.

Anyway I think Syreeta was a great singer and recorded some great stuff. "Your Kiss Is Sweet" is my favourite!!!!! Also "I Love Every Little Thing About You" ;)

Syreeta had a few hits here in the UK too. One time I told my parents about her and they vaguely remembered her. :rolleyes:

[thommg]

If I could get back to Syreeta....

Did she ever do a lot of touring? That helps build a fan base [[as any country music star will attest). I don't remember her ever doing much. She seemed to concentrate on writing as well as recording, but perhaps, not so much on performing.

I enjoy her voice and bought most of her albums, but I don't think I would have enjoyed her leading the Supremes. She always seemed like a singular person / voice to me. She certainly would have looked great as a Supreme, but even there she had her own sense of style that might not have meshed with the group as a whole.

For me, Stevie Wonder Presents and her self titled 1980 records are the best, and I still play both of them often. 'Cause We've Ended Now As Lovers" is a killer track, not really Top 40 to me but, wow, what a vocal and production.

[marv2]

If I could get back to Syreeta....

Did she ever do a lot of touring? That helps build a fan base [[as any country music star will attest). I don't remember her ever doing much. She seemed to concentrate on writing as well as recording, but perhaps, not so much on performing.

I enjoy her voice and bought most of her albums, but I don't think I would have enjoyed her leading the Supremes. She always seemed like a singular person / voice to me. She certainly would have looked great as a Supreme, but even there she had her own sense of style that might not have meshed with the group as a whole.

For me, Stevie Wonder Presents and her self titled 1980 records are the best, and I still play both of them often. 'Cause We've Ended Now As Lovers" is a killer track, not really Top 40 to me but, wow, what a vocal and production.

No! I don't ever recall Syreeta going out on tour. That is an excellent question Thommg.

[thanxal]

If I could get back to Syreeta....

How dare you interrupt this telenovela???? [[J/k, of course).

[RanRan79]

For me, Stevie Wonder Presents and her self titled 1980 records are the best, and I still play both of them often. 'Cause We've Ended Now As Lovers" is a killer track, not really Top 40 to me but, wow, what a vocal and production.

I have her 1980 album but don't think I ever played it much. I recall her versions of "He's Gone" and "Blame It On the Sun" being the two songs I guess I liked. My albums are in Philadelphia. I really need to get them. As for "Cause We've Ended Now", yeah, I can't hear that being a hit, but its a dope song from beginning to end.

[midnightman]

If I could get back to Syreeta....

Did she ever do a lot of touring? That helps build a fan base [[as any country music star will attest). I don't remember her ever doing much. She seemed to concentrate on writing as well as recording, but perhaps, not so much on performing.

I enjoy her voice and bought most of her albums, but I don't think I would have enjoyed her leading the Supremes. She always seemed like a singular person / voice to me. She certainly would have looked great as a Supreme, but even there she had her own sense of style that might not have meshed with the group as a whole.

For me, Stevie Wonder Presents and her self titled 1980 records are the best, and I still play both of them often. 'Cause We've Ended Now As Lovers" is a killer track, not really Top 40 to me but, wow, what a vocal and production.

Don't think she did much touring and if she did, it was overseas. She might've toured with Stevie but I don't know. I think there were some issues with that but no, don't think she toured much. And yeah Syreeta was too independent to be a Supreme.

[midnightman]

I have her 1980 album but don't think I ever played it much. I recall her versions of "He's Gone" and "Blame It On the Sun" being the two songs I guess I liked. My albums are in Philadelphia. I really need to get them. As for "Cause We've Ended Now", yeah, I can't hear that being a hit, but its a dope song from beginning to end.

Like I said about Syreeta earlier [[before we were rudely interrupted :rolleyes: LOL), I said she was more an albums artist than someone who was simply an singles artist. She was always artistic and creative. Not something that's gonna make you confident that she can be a consistent hitmaker.

[RanRan79]

Like I said about Syreeta earlier [[before we were rudely interrupted :rolleyes: LOL), I said she was more an albums artist than someone who was simply an singles artist. She was always artistic and creative. Not something that's gonna make you confident that she can be a consistent hitmaker.

True, but as was pointed out before, if Motown had concentrated on promoting her as an album artist, there may have been some returns on the "investment". Thommg mentioned touring...had Motown put Syreeta on a tour of venues that the "album crowd" frequented, it could've moved some units. Also a possibility was having people focus on creating a hit record for Syreeta, of course with her collaboration. A big hit on the album could've helped each album's success. It just seems like she didn't get the attention.

[midnightman]

That's what I meant, Motown just let her fall by the wayside. It's really unfair that after 20 years she couldn't get the support she truly deserved.

[RanRan79]

That's what I meant, Motown just let her fall by the wayside. It's really unfair that after 20 years she couldn't get the support she truly deserved.

I wonder what her contract situation was like. We've talked at length about what the label should have done for her, but at a certain point we also have to question the decisions some of these artists make. It's hard to fathom that Syreeta was locked into a 20 year contract. So it stands to reason that at some point she was free to fly the coop and for whatever reason decided to keep signing contract after contract. Either she was happy with her life at Motown or she had some other stuff going on because it boggles my mind that she was there so long.

[thommg]

I wonder what her contract situation was like. We've talked at length about what the label should have done for her, but at a certain point we also have to question the decisions some of these artists make.

Reading her Wikipedia entry shed a little bit of light on her contract situation. Her recording output is really, considering the time, not frequent. She was having a bit of success in the UK with a couple of releases. According to the Wiki, right when her contract was coming up, with neither side thinking of renewing, With You I'm Born Again hit. Both sides decided to extend the current contract with no changes.

I totally agree that Syreeta was an album artist not someone looking for hits [[though she certainly was responsible for writing many of them for others). An album artist doesn't sell as well as a hits based artist - and they need to be seen to remind people they are around since they aren't usually heard on the radio. Syreeta had a nice sized family so I'm guessing she preferred to record intermittently, write her songs and be there for her family. Ain't nothing wrong with that! That sounds like a pretty good life to me. I'm thankful for all the recordings she made - still play a few of them, and find that she has a nice ethereal quality [[even on the uptempos) that is soothing.

[marv2]

I wonder what her contract situation was like. We've talked at length about what the label should have done for her, but at a certain point we also have to question the decisions some of these artists make. It's hard to fathom that Syreeta was locked into a 20 year contract. So it stands to reason that at some point she was free to fly the coop and for whatever reason decided to keep signing contract after contract. Either she was happy with her life at Motown or she had some other stuff going on because it boggles my mind that she was there so long.

I have to believe she was on salary. She didn't sell much, so there were very little royalties. She did not tour, so there was no revenue from that area. I can imagine she made some money from her writing and co-writing with Stevie.

[midnightman]

I wonder what her contract situation was like. We've talked at length about what the label should have done for her, but at a certain point we also have to question the decisions some of these artists make. It's hard to fathom that Syreeta was locked into a 20 year contract. So it stands to reason that at some point she was free to fly the coop and for whatever reason decided to keep signing contract after contract. Either she was happy with her life at Motown or she had some other stuff going on because it boggles my mind that she was there so long.

As thommg said, just seemed like they extended the contract. Also she recorded for virtually every Motown label there was. I think I Can't Give Back the Love was released on Gordy [[I think anyway), then she was transferred to MoWest for the Syreeta '72 album, transferred to Motown proper for the Stevie Wonder Presents project in '74, and then for the remainder until she left, she recorded for Tamla [[her ex hubby's old imprint).

[midnightman]

Reading her Wikipedia entry shed a little bit of light on her contract situation. Her recording output is really, considering the time, not frequent. She was having a bit of success in the UK with a couple of releases. According to the Wiki, right when her contract was coming up, with neither side thinking of renewing, With You I'm Born Again hit. Both sides decided to extend the current contract with no changes.

I totally agree that Syreeta was an album artist not someone looking for hits [[though she certainly was responsible for writing many of them for others). An album artist doesn't sell as well as a hits based artist - and they need to be seen to remind people they are around since they aren't usually heard on the radio. Syreeta had a nice sized family so I'm guessing she preferred to record intermittently, write her songs and be there for her family. Ain't nothing wrong with that! That sounds like a pretty good life to me. I'm thankful for all the recordings she made - still play a few of them, and find that she has a nice ethereal quality [[even on the uptempos) that is soothing.

She also lived comfortably off of songwriting royalties so it doesn't seem like she was actually hungry for money. Also she got into Transcendental Meditation [[and got Stevie hooked to it), which led to the spiritual themes in One to One. And then having a family afterwards. Yeah she seemed satisfied where she was at. So who knows how she was feeling but Motown should've pushed her albums. But then again, Motown was never albums driven in the long run.

[marybrewster]

I think Syreeta's problem was.....Stevie. Sure, he hit big with "Tears of a Clown", "It's a Shame", "Tell Me Something Good", and "Let's Get Serious".....but outside of that handful and MAYBE a few more, his success was writing for himself.

[midnightman]

If that was the case, then how come Berry didn't help her after she began to do more music without him? In the case of One to One in particular, which Leon Ware heavily oversaw production of?

[thommg]

If that was the case, then how come Berry didn't help her after she began to do more music without him? In the case of One to One in particular, which Leon Ware heavily oversaw production of?

And in which the only released single was a Stevie produced song, Harmour Love. It does not appear that any other single was released from this effort. Which brings up something else - Syreeta continued to record but there don't seem to be many singles released on her behalf.

[simon.millar]

Personally I really like the Rita Wright years set - they are what they are [[demo's), with a bit more production could have been really good...