Four Tops Motown 622 MONO

[justanothermotownfan]

Hello, I'm hoping the experienced Motown collectors can help me out here. I have a Four Tops album [[first album - Motown 622) in mono where I discovered a completely different vocal from the 45 mix and the stereo album for Without The One You Love [[Life's Not Worthwhile). It's a pretty cool alternate but I didn't think much about it since alternates have appeared on other mono albums like A Love She Can Count On from The Fabulous Miracles album.

I was in a record shop listening to a different mono Four Tops [[M-622) album and to my surprise, it had the non-alternate, regular Without The One You Love we all know. So I checked the dead wax and the matrix number is RR4M-6218-1, however the dead wax on the album with the alternate shows what appears to an original matrix number of RR3M-6301-1 corrected with a line through certain numbers to show the correct RR4M-6218-1 matrix. I have a picture of it but I'm embarrassed to say I don't know how to upload the picture to this site/post.

I would guess this album with the alternate is a first press.

Does anyone else have this album? Perhaps Keith or someone else with access at/to Motown can provide a backstory on this alternate mix? My interest is piqued since I haven't heard this mix on any CD or anthology prior to this "find" on the mono album. I appreciate any information at all that can be provided.

Thanks in advance.

[Fourtopsbiggestfan]

Wow. I had that too. Had an accident with it. I still have it. Wish I could glue it together.

[mysterysinger]

The album appears to have been issued a couple of times in quick succession in 1964 and also 1965 but that matrix is something of a mystery. So they switched WTOYL for a different version/mix? What are the differences?

I love threads like this since it makes me listen to all the tracks I've stored in Media Player in the hope of listening to the alternate version - invariably, as in this case I think, I won't have the alternate one stored - drat.

Worth knowing that according to Discogs there are several variations to the matrix on the issued product and there are pictures of the vinyl in some cases.

The matrix numbers listed across the various early mono releases -

1964
Matrix / Runout [[Side A): SIDE 1 [[H-1326) RR4M 6218 X3
Matrix / Runout [[Side B): SIDE 2 [[H-1327) RR4M 6219 4 2
Matrix / Runout [[Side A): SIDE 1 [[H-1326) RR4M-6218-1 A 2
Matrix / Runout [[Side B): SIDE 2 [[H-1327) RR4M-6219-1 A 1
https://www.discogs.com/Four-Tops-Four-Tops/release/2743047



JAN 1965
Matrix / Runout [[Side A Runout, Stamped): o RR4M-6218-1-D \/ 2 P
Matrix / Runout [[Side B Runout, Stamped): o RR4M-6219-1-B P
Matrix / Runout [[Side A Runout, Etched): MT-622 A-
Matrix / Runout [[Side B Runout, Etched): MT-622 B-
https://www.discogs.com/Four-Tops-Four-Tops/release/671910

Of course this might just show the latest number [[and ignore anything scratched out but the photos might prove revealing maybe?)

[justanothermotownfan]

[QUOTE=mysterysinger;448893]The album appears to have been issued a couple of times in quick succession in 1964 and also 1965 but that matrix is something of a mystery. So they switched WTOYL for a different version/mix? What are the differences?

Hey mysterysinger, thanks for your help. The differences between this alternate and the single version is the following:

1. Levi is singing a little slower - much more noticeable in the beginning
2. He is also ad-libbing throughout all of the choruses. For example, he says "I'm here to tell you..." in the first chorus
3. Andantes and Tops background isn't as tight as the released version
4. Shorter fade

It sounds like it could be a demo version; definitely not something intended for release. I checked the pictures at discogs and the labels don't match the album I have. I would upload, but again I don't know how.

[mysterysinger]

Would be great to hear via YouTube and it should be of interest to Keith Hughes because there is no separate version shown on DFTMC for your track. Are able to upload it in a vid to YouTube? If not but you already have the track digitised [[eg mp3) I could do it for you.

As for uploading photos to here it is straightforward and intuitive. When you are doing a quick reply on here, as I am now, you will see a tool bar just above the text box. Third from your right as you view is what looks like a picture frame. Clicking that will take you to an option to select your photos for upload from your computer and once done you then need to click upload. This should place the photo file as a text line in your response [[you will only see the photos when you post the reply). Then post your response as usual and the photos appear by magic. It takes only a few seconds to do BUT...... Your photos need to be digital e.g. jpeg, and you need to know where they're stored in your system so you can find them to upload. As a last resort, send the files to me and I'll post them here for you [[though its actually just as quick to upload them yourself if you can).

Fascinating thread though, thanks for starting it.

[Fourtopsbiggestfan]

When Levi comes in saying I'M NOT LIVING BABY, when he says I'M, he does a Levi shout in that word.

[justanothermotownfan]

Ok mysterysinger, here's the photo of the corrected matrix in the dead wax. Thanks for your help with this. Now let me figure out a way to upload the song.

14097

[justanothermotownfan]

When Levi comes in saying I'M NOT LIVING BABY, when he says I'M, he does a Levi shout in that word.

Yes Fourtopsbiggestfan!! And then Levi says "I only. Exist." I actually like his take on this alternate.

[bradsupremes]

I'm really intrigued by this. Is this alternate a completely different vocal or a completely different version? Is it a different band track too?

[Fourtopsbiggestfan]

I'm really intrigued by this. Is this alternate a completely different vocal or a completely different version? Is it a different band track too?
The lead vocal is definitely completely different. Great.

[Fourtopsbiggestfan]

Yes Fourtopsbiggestfan!! And then Levi says "I only. Exist." I actually like his take on this alternate.
I really love the version too. Hope to hear it again soon. Wish there was a way to piece my copy back together. Wonder how many people know about this version. Maybe even just put your camera next to the speaker and put it on YouTube that way. I've done it that way with the Vandellas-MOTHER TELL ME WHAT TO DO

[keith_hughes]

The session logs show the song took 6 sessions to complete, 5 of them dub-ins. It looks like each overdub was mixed not once, but several times: there are 25 mono mixes in the vaults [[and one stereo mix! - shows how much Motown cared about stereo in 1964: ahem). I think that may be some kind of record, for 25 mixes actually to be kept for consideration when the final cut was made. And from what's been posted here, it seems that even when they made the decision, they changed their minds!

Sounds as if this rarity deserves a CD outing, and I'd be happy to put it forward as a candidate for the next volume of Ace's "Motown Guys" [[if and when). But ... I'd need to hear before I can dig it up! I'll keep an eye on this thread in the hope that you guys can get it up to YouTube.

[paul_nixon]

The session logs show the song took 6 sessions to complete, 5 of them dub-ins. It looks like each overdub was mixed not once, but several times: there are 25 mono mixes in the vaults [[and one stereo mix! - shows how much Motown cared about stereo in 1964: ahem). I think that may be some kind of record, for 25 mixes actually to be kept for consideration when the final cut was made. And from what's been posted here, it seems that even when they made the decision, they changed their minds!

Sounds as if this rarity deserves a CD outing, and I'd be happy to put it forward as a candidate for the next volume of Ace's "Motown Guys" [[if and when). But ... I'd need to hear before I can dig it up! I'll keep an eye on this thread in the hope that you guys can get it up to YouTube.

Think I have found that it was the fifth overdub which certainly is as described above

[paul_nixon]

shows how much Motown cared about stereo in 1964: ahem). I think that may be some kind of record, for 25 mixes actually to be kept for consideration

Quite a few titles come close Brenda's, When I'm Gone make almost 20 and Martha's Never Leave Your Babies Side 16 quite a few coming up behind then

But Marvin's Try IT Baby licks them all with over 30.....

[justanothermotownfan]

Thank you all for your help with this! I appreciate the information, and while I'm having a hard time uploading to YouTube, I will try my best to post it here as soon as I can.

[Fourtopsbiggestfan]

Thank you all for your help with this! I appreciate the information, and while I'm having a hard time uploading to YouTube, I will try my best to post it here as soon as I can.
Good luck. Hope to hear it again.🙂🙂🙂