The Supremes, Smokey Robinson - Someday We'll Be Together

[marv2]

Finally! A good, clean copy:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiNXtZj3ezA

[thanxal]

Wow, thanks Marv. Love this clip. Nice to have a clean and high res version.

[marv2]

Wow, thanks Marv. Love this clip. Nice to have a clean and high res version.

You're welcome. I want the whole show in this condition now.

[jim aka jtigre99]

Very nice to see this clip in high resolution without numbers in the corner. Jean and Smokey were an exciting combination as Jean was with Levi. By having the song as a duet and with their voices it no longer had the somewhat sombre tone of the single. Smokey really seemed to favor Mary during the introduction, probably because they had been friends the longest. Very nice, thanks for sharing this clip. Now, where's the rest of the show?

[marv2]

Very nice to see this clip in high resolution without numbers in the corner. Jean and Smokey were an exciting combination as Jean was with Levi. By having the song as a duet and with their voices it no longer had the somewhat sombre tone of the single. Smokey really seemed to favor Mary during the introduction, probably because they had been friends the longest. Very nice, thanks for sharing this clip. Now, where's the rest of the show?

At least we know that the entire show exists and out there. It aired on GET TV several months ago on cable. My cable company doesn't carry that channel.

[Motown Eddie]

Fantastic! Thanks for sharing Marv2. And what show was this clip taken from?

[marv2]

Fantastic! Thanks for sharing Marv2. And what show was this clip taken from?

This is from "The Smokey Robinson Show" television special that aired on ABC-TV in December of 1970.

[Circa 1824]

Maybe it was a coincidence, but Smokey kept his back to Wilson throughout the song, thereby keeping the mic far away from her also. LOL

[honest man]

Maybe it was a coincidence, but Smokey kept his back to Wilson throughout the song, thereby keeping the mic far away from her also. LOLHe obviously knew she was a Hog,as Motown25 proof was in the pudding,cheers.

[thanxal]

This same episode has a live version of UTLTTR.

[BayouMotownMan]

This special was re-aired on GET TV about a year ago, though heavily edited. Jean Terrell walked off with this show. In the finale all the Motown acts did Friendship Train, with even Mary and Cindy getting solo spots. But Miss JT's mic was turned up and she sounded so fantastic over everybody else. I just wished they had given the girls new clothing instead of the Diana Ross and The Supremes wardrobe.

[thanxal]

This special was re-aired on GET TV about a year ago, though heavily edited. Jean Terrell walked off with this show. In the finale all the Motown acts did Friendship Train, with even Mary and Cindy getting solo spots. But Miss JT's mic was turned up and she sounded so fantastic over everybody else. I just wished they had given the girls new clothing instead of the Diana Ross and The Supremes wardrobe.
The wardrobe thing always struck me as odd. OK, got it. For whatever reason, gowns were reused, but at least make Mary stay in the middle of the group for color balance: blue, green, blue.

[sup_fan]

for all of the money that the spent on the old gowns, refitting them, developing new gowns, it would not have cost THAT much money to have 1 new silver spangled jumpsuit made. just pick a third color for Jean or someone. maybe purple. or else just make a new blue one for mary.

[blackguy69]

If you think about it, both sets of pantsuits are only a year old so I can see why they weren’t being replaced

[Thornton]

At least they're not wearing the over the top evening gowns from the DRATS era as JML and MSS did. They look and sound great in this video. The Supremes, particularly Jean, come off as the stars of the special. A true shame they were unable to maintain the momentum in the following years.

[luke]

They do a great job but I prefer Diana’s lead...she really puts across the bittersweetness and yearning of the song.

[jobeterob]

They do a great job but I prefer Diana’s lead...she really puts across the bittersweetness and yearning of the song.

Nice of you to say something kind about Diana

[TheMotownManiac]

This special was re-aired on GET TV about a year ago, though heavily edited. Jean Terrell walked off with this show. In the finale all the Motown acts did Friendship Train, with even Mary and Cindy getting solo spots. But Miss JT's mic was turned up and she sounded so fantastic over everybody else. I just wished they had given the girls new clothing instead of the Diana Ross and The Supremes wardrobe.
The Supremes were never ‘given’ a wardrobe - they chose what and when to buy gowns and where they’d be seen. BG might have suggested certainlooks for special events, but they did make their own decisions on this aspect of their career. I understand and appreciate frugality, but, when trying to establish yourself as a new group, having Jean wear Ross’ old gowns was a terrible idea. A year or two later, yeah if they still are striking and not outmoded- but AFTER you establish your new i-den-i-ty. The DR&TS gowns were spectacular and none of the subsequent gowns came close - although several were great - but several were absolutely hideous. Regardless, it was just plain bad taste to give Mary the blue gown for reasons mentioned. It looks stupid. If that’s the dress that fits Mary, don’t f’kn wear then on National TV looking less than your best. This is why I wish JMC had a stylist, because none of them had the vision. Jean had a great body and looked much better in gowns designed with that in mind - like the white fringe. The old gowns were designed to work with Ross.

[luke]

I’ve said a number of positive things about her charisma and ability to entertain

[marv2]

I’ve said a number of positive things about her charisma and ability to entertain

This live version has way more Soul and I like it. The recording was nice. Thank you Johnny Bristol!

[jobeterob]

I’ve said a number of positive things about her charisma and ability to entertain

Mary was my favourite Supreme in the 60’s and I couldn’t wait for her solo’s

[sup_fan]

The Supremes were never ‘given’ a wardrobe - they chose what and when to buy gowns and where they’d be seen. BG might have suggested certainlooks for special events, but they did make their own decisions on this aspect of their career. I understand and appreciate frugality, but, when trying to establish yourself as a new group, having Jean wear Ross’ old gowns was a terrible idea. A year or two later, yeah if they still are striking and not outmoded- but AFTER you establish your new i-den-i-ty. The DR&TS gowns were spectacular and none of the subsequent gowns came close - although several were great - but several were absolutely hideous. Regardless, it was just plain bad taste to give Mary the blue gown for reasons mentioned. It looks stupid. If that’s the dress that fits Mary, don’t f’kn wear then on National TV looking less than your best. This is why I wish JMC had a stylist, because none of them had the vision. Jean had a great body and looked much better in gowns designed with that in mind - like the white fringe. The old gowns were designed to work with Ross.

I absolutely agree with your thoughts, especially with the MSS lineup. by the time Scherrie was on board, Mary was pretty much making all decisions regarding the look of the group. and frankly, I think she was WAY off. the big ballgowns didn't work for the intricate and fast disco choreography. and often the outfits seemed like they swamped Susaye's petite frame. those jesus robes didn't work for that reason. maybe if the sleeves were so excessive. but on the shorter girls, they looked like dwarfs next to big mary

clearly mary was focused on what she wanted to wear and not what worked for the overall group

as for the Jean era, my understanding is that she was much more comfortable in pantsuits rather than the slinky gowns. out of all of the Sups, jean was the least "buxom" lol and her figure didn't always come across as flattering as it might have in some of the dresses.

That said, I didn't always like the DRATS or DFM looks lol. some of the DFM gowns looked like something Lady Bird Johnson would wear lol. like that yellow outfit on Sullivan doing Itching in My Heart with that weird yellow chiffon sash hanging off the shoulder. and the empire waist gowns made flo look huge next to the stick-like Diana. I think Flo looks massive in the pink chiffon gown from My Fav Things

[BayouMotownMan]

Jean Terrell never had a good figure and was the hardest of all the ladies to fit. She was rather flat chested, had a distinct roll around her middle, wide hips and long legs. She was the tallest of all Supremes.

I do like the gowns that Micheal Travis and Michael Nicole designed for the Jean Supremes, they were becoming to all three. The blue ponchos [[Andy Williams), pink pants with vests [[Glen Campbell) and the gowns like the white frilly gowns [[Bob Hope) and the lavender gowns on Flip Wilson. Those black jumpsuits with black feathers [[Mike Douglas) made them look so sexy.

I hate most of the Pat Campano designs. They looked decidedly cheaper. The only ones I liked were the red gowns from the back of the He's My Man lp and the black and silver gowns from the Japan concert. Those green forties gowns were tacky as was the multicolored ball gowns they wore on Johnny Carson. The red gowns from Sonny and Cher and those blue dresses from Udo are just horrific, Mary was making the group look like aging hookers.

[jobeterob]

Didn't some of the stage costumes just reflect the "era"? And some of those looks now look god awful even if they looked "okay" in the day.

Doesn't Mary's second book say they were running out of money in every way and didn't have money for anything? I'm sure clothes came pretty far down the priority list.

[BayouMotownMan]

Sure money was tight after 1974 but Mary kept buying one tacky set after another. Like those zebra outfits. Just awful

[blackguy69]

Mary said the gowns cost up to 2000 each and they couldn’t replace them all. I personally think 2 years is long enough to keep the gowns and they should be weeded out.

[blackguy69]

Some of us are here are overly critical as far as the later outfits are concerned

[copley]

I couldn't less if they wore bin bags! Great version, Jean makes it her own :)

[marv2]

I couldn't less if they wore bin bags! Great version, Jean makes it her own :)

Bingo! Jackpot! Or whatever they say. I agree with you 1000%!

[TheMotownManiac]

I absolutely agree with your thoughts, especially with the MSS lineup. by the time Scherrie was on board, Mary was pretty much making all decisions regarding the look of the group. and frankly, I think she was WAY off. the big ballgowns didn't work for the intricate and fast disco choreography. and often the outfits seemed like they swamped Susaye's petite frame. those jesus robes didn't work for that reason. maybe if the sleeves were so excessive. but on the shorter girls, they looked like dwarfs next to big mary

clearly mary was focused on what she wanted to wear and not what worked for the overall group

as for the Jean era, my understanding is that she was much more comfortable in pantsuits rather than the slinky gowns. out of all of the Sups, jean was the least "buxom" lol and her figure didn't always come across as flattering as it might have in some of the dresses.

That said, I didn't always like the DRATS or DFM looks lol. some of the DFM gowns looked like something Lady Bird Johnson would wear lol. like that yellow outfit on Sullivan doing Itching in My Heart with that weird yellow chiffon sash hanging off the shoulder. and the empire waist gowns made flo look huge next to the stick-like Diana. I think Flo looks massive in the pink chiffon gown from My Fav Things

Jean had an unusual, but sexy shape in several of the gowns. She could exhibit a stately, lithe regal sensuality in the right items. I disliked those yellow Itching dresses also - rediculous for that song, but they were still trying to fit in so, ...... But nothing was a hideous as tjose vomitacious gold pantsuits from Tom Jones....lol...gasp!

Chiffon had beenpopular but was on the way out - it worked for Flo because she could hide her weight under it when required but clearly her body type was not what Ross had in mind for the newer designer looks.

[jobeterob]

I couldn't less if they wore bin bags! Great version, Jean makes it her own :)

I agree mostly with this. I notice what they wear when people say they looked awful in the 70's. But I mostly know nothing more than the color.

I also recall reading what blackguy wrote - the clothes weren't cheap; and they weren't making any money. So the re-treads came out.

[marv2]

Jean had an unusual, but sexy shape in several of the gowns. She could exhibit a stately, lithe regal sensuality in the right items. I disliked those yellow Itching dresses also - rediculous for that song, but they were still trying to fit in so, ...... But nothing was a hideous as tjose vomitacious gold pantsuits from Tom Jones....lol...gasp!

Chiffon had beenpopular but was on the way out - it worked for Flo because she could hide her weight under it when required but clearly her body type was not what Ross had in mind for the newer designer looks.


Jean and Florence both had better figures than Diana Ross who had NO figure whatsoever. She was built like a pre-teen boy. She was flat in the front and back. It took a lot of work to make her look like a "Supreme" LOL!!!! There were more than a few times where I thought Jean was hot. Florence was always hot! Florence had the curves I like. She was stacked like a woman should be in a perfect World.

[sup_fan]

there were definitely outfits from each lineup that were less wonderful or flattering than others. Even ignoring fashion trends of the time. weren't the zebra gowns from the late 70s a caftan concept? like a wrap that went over another sequin dress? and I liked the blue fringe Udo gowns. I thought they looked sexy in them. same with the red All I Want outfits from Sonny & Cher - once they removed those crazy extra long beads on the arm that got tangled.

My list for worst outfits :) lol

the lavender pantsuits for I'm Living In Shame
the raggedy gold pantsuits from Tom Jones
the pink lace gowns from My World Is Empty on Sullivan, looks like a grandma dress
the blue copa dresses
most of the shapeless chiffon gowns from the late DMF era
the red, orange and pink TCB pantsuits

[RanRan79]

Jean and Florence both had better figures than Diana Ross who had NO figure whatsoever. She was built like a pre-teen boy. She was flat in the front and back. It took a lot of work to make her look like a "Supreme" LOL!!!! There were more than a few times where I thought Jean was hot. Florence was always hot! Florence had the curves I like. She was stacked like a woman should be in a perfect World.

Florence had the type of shape that attracts me physically. Diana clearly had a shape before she developed the eating disorder. It's sad the things that women have to endure regarding body image. In a perfect world a woman should be able to look however she looks and still be worthy. I hope all this talk about Diana's body and Jean's body aren't being made by men with body types considered less than desirable. That would be sad, wouldn't it?

[TomatoTom123]

Jean and Florence both had better figures than Diana Ross who had NO figure whatsoever. She was built like a pre-teen boy. She was flat in the front and back. It took a lot of work to make her look like a "Supreme" LOL!!!! There were more than a few times where I thought Jean was hot. Florence was always hot! Florence had the curves I like. She was stacked like a woman should be in a perfect World.

"she was stacked like a woman should be in a perfect world"... oh Marv :rolleyes:

[marybrewster]

I understand $$$ was tight for the group in the 70's, but what I don't understand is: you can walk into Macy's today and find quality, sexy, sparkling gowns for less than $200 each. 40 years ago, that number had to be around $50 to $75. So why commission these expensive gowns when you can literally buy off the rack? And why wear the "same old" when you can inexpensively update a wardrobe. Was $$$ THAT tight?

[marybrewster]

The Supremes were never ‘given’ a wardrobe - they chose what and when to buy gowns and where they’d be seen. BG might have suggested certainlooks for special events, but they did make their own decisions on this aspect of their career. I understand and appreciate frugality, but, when trying to establish yourself as a new group, having Jean wear Ross’ old gowns was a terrible idea. A year or two later, yeah if they still are striking and not outmoded- but AFTER you establish your new i-den-i-ty. The DR&TS gowns were spectacular and none of the subsequent gowns came close - although several were great - but several were absolutely hideous. Regardless, it was just plain bad taste to give Mary the blue gown for reasons mentioned. It looks stupid. If that’s the dress that fits Mary, don’t f’kn wear then on National TV looking less than your best. This is why I wish JMC had a stylist, because none of them had the vision. Jean had a great body and looked much better in gowns designed with that in mind - like the white fringe. The old gowns were designed to work with Ross.

Best post!

[marybrewster]

I absolutely agree with your thoughts, especially with the MSS lineup. by the time Scherrie was on board, Mary was pretty much making all decisions regarding the look of the group. and frankly, I think she was WAY off. the big ballgowns didn't work for the intricate and fast disco choreography. and often the outfits seemed like they swamped Susaye's petite frame. those jesus robes didn't work for that reason. maybe if the sleeves were so excessive. but on the shorter girls, they looked like dwarfs next to big mary

clearly mary was focused on what she wanted to wear and not what worked for the overall group

as for the Jean era, my understanding is that she was much more comfortable in pantsuits rather than the slinky gowns. out of all of the Sups, jean was the least "buxom" lol and her figure didn't always come across as flattering as it might have in some of the dresses.

That said, I didn't always like the DRATS or DFM looks lol. some of the DFM gowns looked like something Lady Bird Johnson would wear lol. like that yellow outfit on Sullivan doing Itching in My Heart with that weird yellow chiffon sash hanging off the shoulder. and the empire waist gowns made flo look huge next to the stick-like Diana. I think Flo looks massive in the pink chiffon gown from My Fav Things

"Big Mary" made me laugh! :) There's a clip of MSS on Mike Douglas [[I think?) where they're standing on boxes, Mary in the middle on the highest box. She literally looks like an amazon next to Sherrie and Susaye.

[marybrewster]

Jean Terrell never had a good figure and was the hardest of all the ladies to fit. She was rather flat chested, had a distinct roll around her middle, wide hips and long legs. She was the tallest of all Supremes.

I do like the gowns that Micheal Travis and Michael Nicole designed for the Jean Supremes, they were becoming to all three. The blue ponchos [[Andy Williams), pink pants with vests [[Glen Campbell) and the gowns like the white frilly gowns [[Bob Hope) and the lavender gowns on Flip Wilson. Those black jumpsuits with black feathers [[Mike Douglas) made them look so sexy.

I hate most of the Pat Campano designs. They looked decidedly cheaper. The only ones I liked were the red gowns from the back of the He's My Man lp and the black and silver gowns from the Japan concert. Those green forties gowns were tacky as was the multicolored ball gowns they wore on Johnny Carson. The red gowns from Sonny and Cher and those blue dresses from Udo are just horrific, Mary was making the group look like aging hookers.

Oh that Udo performance. I always cringe when Mary gets a top that piano. Whatever she was going for missed the mark.

[honest man]

Oh that Udo performance. I always cringe when Mary gets a top that piano. Whatever she was going for missed the mark.
As I wrote earlier ,Wilson is a hog for attention,or maybe she was at her cocaine use at the time,or did that come later, anyone know,cheers.

[masterblaster]

Never seen this before, don't think this aired here in the U.K. I find it odd that the 'new' Supremes would sing what was essentially a Diana Ross solo, albeit it was released as the swansong for DRATS.

[sup_fan]

Oh that Udo performance. I always cringe when Mary gets a top that piano. Whatever she was going for missed the mark.

I think mary was trying to hype of her sex appeal during this time. like with that green chiffon strapless gown? honey she was barely able to keep inside that thing!! and going on several shows bra-less where she was flopping and jiggling all around. hey I get it - it was the 70s so bra-less was sort of a thing. but to go on American Bandstand and sing This Is Why I Believe in You with your titties flying all around isn't right! and she'd just had a baby too lol

I like the udo performance, except for Mary's short part in Walk Away. maybe she was more focused on positioning herself on that piano but she should have been focused more on singing in tune! which she was NOT. but susaye's verse sounds amazing. it's brief but she nails it.

the blue fringe gown from that show is often in the gown exhibit and in-person, it looks lovely. icey blue, with silver sequins. then silver, blue and lavender fringe.

[blackguy69]

Never seen this before, don't think this aired here in the U.K. I find it odd that the 'new' Supremes would sing what was essentially a Diana Ross solo, albeit it was released as the swansong for DRATS. it was still a relatively current hit. If I’m correct this special was recorded around late spring 1970 so doing up the ladder and someday made sense.

[sup_fan]

it was still a relatively current hit. If I’m correct this special was recorded around late spring 1970 so doing up the ladder and someday made sense.

correct - I think they recording this JUST as they were preparing Everybody for a single release. in the full tv special, Smokey introduces each of his guests. when he does the Sups [[they're wearing the multi-colored halters from when DRATS sang The Happening on Tennessee Ernie Ford in 67), they sing a little line of Everybody.

Someday was a MASSIVE hit. sold millions of copies. not sure exactly but it might have outsold all of the previous hits. so it was still a VERY popular recent song and clearly associated with the group. they'd only done 1 song as the New Supremes and they did a remarkable version of it on the special.

they then do a group number with all of the guests where they all sing Smokey songs. and in the finally they sing too

[midnightman]

Looks like Smokey and Jean and the Supremes had rehearsed Someday to be a duet between Smokey & Jean so it would make sense for Mary to be behind Smokey.

Anyway, those gowns are EXQUISITE!!! And Smokey & Jean singing together is great. And Maniac is right: why would they wanna wear the stuff they wore when Diana was in the group? Don't make sense. They also changed up when Flo was ousted. I mean if you're a Supremes fan, you'd know that lol

They never stayed the same, they always changed up. Gotta admire that [[same with the Temptations too).

Jean definitely made it even more soulful than it already was. I love her voice! :)

[midnightman]

correct - I think they recording this JUST as they were preparing Everybody for a single release. in the full tv special, Smokey introduces each of his guests. when he does the Sups [[they're wearing the multi-colored halters from when DRATS sang The Happening on Tennessee Ernie Ford in 67), they sing a little line of Everybody.

Someday was a MASSIVE hit. sold millions of copies. not sure exactly but it might have outsold all of the previous hits. so it was still a VERY popular recent song and clearly associated with the group. they'd only done 1 song as the New Supremes and they did a remarkable version of it on the special.

they then do a group number with all of the guests where they all sing Smokey songs. and in the finally they sing too

IDK, the show aired in December 1970... think Everybody was already released months before and Stoned Love was just released two months before.

[blackguy69]

IDK, the show aired in December 1970... think Everybody was already released months before and Stoned Love was just released two months before.
This was taped right before Everybody was released.

[blackguy69]

As far as the stage gear, does anyone here really think they were going to replace their entire wardrobe just because Diana left?

[midnightman]

This was taped right before Everybody was released.

Everybody was released in July of that year, right?

[blackguy69]

I think so.

[sup_fan]

but Everybody was recorded in late April and then rushed onto Right On. I think it was always the intent to release it as a single [[why, personally, I don't know lol) and there was considerable excitement with the team.

the tv specials were taped many months in advance. it's quite possible that by the time they were taping, they knew Everybody was going to be the next single but hadn't had a chance to prepare the charts for the live band, prepare choreography, etc. The girls were traveling HEAVILY during this time and pretty much all of May was devoted to recording sessions with the 4 Tops.

[Thornton]

I understand $$$ was tight for the group in the 70's, but what I don't understand is: you can walk into Macy's today and find quality, sexy, sparkling gowns for less than $200 each. 40 years ago, that number had to be around $50 to $75. So why commission these expensive gowns when you can literally buy off the rack? And why wear the "same old" when you can inexpensively update a wardrobe. Was $$$ THAT tight?

I wonder if for Mary it was hard to go back to off the rack dresses after all the iconic gowns the group got to wear in the 60's. I agree it would have been much smarter to continually update their wardrobe with less expensive outfits, or just wear a smaller set of new, designer outfits more frequently. Some outfits, like the red sequined jumpsuits from Ed Sullivan, and the white bugle bead gowns still looked good on MSS, but for the most part the majority of their wardrobe should have been retired after a few years.

As far as the bat wing pantsuits from this video, I don't know why they couldn't fit Diana's poncho for Jean as it wasn't all that form-fitting, but the group still looks great, and the pantsuits were only a year old if that, so at least in style. There's also a genuine group rapport that makes these clips fun to watch.

[sup_fan]

given the late 70s and disco, the girls should have tried to go more contemporary with their wardrobe. Imagine if Halston had designed for them. or Yves Saint Laurent. wrap dresses, halter tops with spandex pants or harem pants. gold chain belts. They still could have been glam and sequin. just ditch the "gone with the wind" ball gowns.

if they'd adjusted their show and the flow of songs, they could have segmented things to still include other outfits. maybe the part where mary does her spotlight, they do the 60s medley, etc. something where they're not doing their fast, coordinated moves. then do a change and move into another section of the show.

there's a pic that's been floating around of MSS sitting in cut off jean shorts, t's and hats. it's cool, hip and very 70s. they look sensational. the shorts are probably hot pants, to be honest. but so what - they were sexy ladies and it was of the time

JMC also had a red and blue halter top and hot pant outfit. with silver sequin stars on the pants and red lace up shoes. and there's the short white Central Park dresses. for specific venues, these looks were great too. contemporary and flashy

[TheMotownManiac]

Jean and Florence both had better figures than Diana Ross who had NO figure whatsoever. She was built like a pre-teen boy. She was flat in the front and back. It took a lot of work to make her look like a "Supreme" LOL!!!! There were more than a few times where I thought Jean was hot. Florence was always hot! Florence had the curves I like. She was stacked like a woman should be in a perfect World.

Diana was flat in front only - she always had a nice ass. Mary is the one who wore a fake butt that folks made fun of - she wore falsies also until she had implants.

I agree about Flo’s bod - she was hit until she got too heavy. She looked like a billion on Hollywood Palace nov 66

[TheMotownManiac]

As far as the stage gear, does anyone here really think they were going to replace their entire wardrobe just because Diana left?

No one is saying you should replace your entire wardrobe…… What we are saying is that it is a mistake, a great big mistake, for Jean to wear Diana‘s old gowns while the group is trying to establish themselves. They could’ve come up with half a dozen outfits to use for TV album covers and publicity shots and things… It just would’ve looked better. I was very disappointed when I saw what they were wearing on the right on album cover. They could’ve still used the old gowns in concert if they wanted to, but for the general public for national and international exposure, in my opinion, it was crazy to retread the old gowns for publicity purposes. Plus, there’s a cheesiness factor of inserting Jean into Ross’ dresses.

One of the reasons is because of the topic of this very conversation: the green dress was designed for Diana the other two were for the background singers I just looked dumb to use them this way… If they had nothing else to wear, they should’ve chosen another old gown Or wear the red pants suits… Anything but this silliness…just made them look stupid … Just about every TV appearance they made cost them more fans than they garnered. There are exceptions like at sullivan…

[sup_fan]

The new sups actually had a lot of new outfits and in 1970 too. There was the red pantsuit from Sullivan. The white ponchos from Andy Williams. The gold pantsuits and green fringe pantsuit from tom Jones. The lavendar ones from flip Wilson. Then in 71 there was the brown sequin pantsuit w feather coat. The short white Central Park dresses. The white bugle beads. The lavender sequin gowns. The yellow gowns. The red hexagon ones. Then several hot pant outfits. The peach ones.

Given all of these ud think they would have been more prominent in photos. Lp covers. Tv shows.

[marybrewster]

No one is saying you should replace your entire wardrobe…… What we are saying is that it is a mistake, a great big mistake, for Jean to wear Diana‘s old gowns while the group is trying to establish themselves. They could’ve come up with half a dozen outfits to use for TV album covers and publicity shots and things… It just would’ve looked better. I was very disappointed when I saw what they were wearing on the right on album cover. They could’ve still used the old gowns in concert if they wanted to, but for the general public for national and international exposure, in my opinion, it was crazy to retread the old gowns for publicity purposes. Plus, there’s a cheesiness factor of inserting Jean into Ross’ dresses.

One of the reasons is because of the topic of this very conversation: the green dress was designed for Diana the other two were for the background singers I just looked dumb to use them this way… If they had nothing else to wear, they should’ve chosen another old gown Or wear the red pants suits… Anything but this silliness…just made them look stupid … Just about every TV appearance they made cost them more fans than they garnered. There are exceptions like at sullivan…

I still can't get past the "Right On" cover. Rows and rows of missing beads.

[TheMotownManiac]

That’s entirely my point. The beads weren’t missing - I think they are just stretched out as it doesn’t fit well. I love those dresses so much and Mary looks killer in hers - as did Ross - but for the cover of their first album...................I’m not 100% but it was a nice pic. I wish they had done something slightly less glam and more fashion forward.

[midnightman]

Didn't the Supremes try to change up for one of the early Terrell albums? I think the one that was New Ways but Love Stays was gonna feature them in their Afros and black turtleneck sweaters [[aka the Black Panthers) but because they still had a huge white following, Motown risked backlash and forced them to use a glam pic to compare the two [[since both pics were on the same cover)...

It seems if they wanted to change, Motown wouldn't let them?

[Thornton]

Didn't the Supremes try to change up for one of the early Terrell albums? I think the one that was New Ways but Love Stays was gonna feature them in their Afros and black turtleneck sweaters [[aka the Black Panthers) but because they still had a huge white following, Motown risked backlash and forced them to use a glam pic to compare the two [[since both pics were on the same cover)...

It seems if they wanted to change, Motown wouldn't let them?

Mary does bring up this issue in "Supreme Faith". The album was also supposed to be titled "Stoned Love", but Motown again feared controversy. I've also heard the song is really "Stone Love", but there was a printing error and the name stuck. Not sure if that's true or not, but it certainly changes the connotations folks might have with the song's meaning.

It seems like the group also tried to present a more "natural" image by wearing their own clothes on David Frost's show. I certainly prefer Jean in this look than in DRATS outfits.

[TheMotownManiac]

The Supremes took lots of publicity shots and the art dept did the visual concepts. JMC had nothing to do or say about their covers and I’m sure never tried to influence them one way or the other. Mary said lots of things in her books after-the-fact. No one at Motown did until Miss Ross approved the TMITM cover. I don’t know if anybSupremes groupings had any input, but I doubt it.

[sup_fan]

I'd guess that Mary and Pedro had much more involvement in the photo selection and cover design in the later 70s. not total control like Diana had at RCA but I'd assume more than previous Sup lineups

Susaye mentioned a while ago in a post that she and Scherrie were not highly involved in the direction of the group. from gown selection to performance content

[drlorne]

When they were promoting Your Wonderful Sweet Sweet Love, they looked very dated [[even their wigs) on Sonny and Cher, but looked youthful, vibrant and very sexy on the Flip Wilson show. [[short white dresses with lots of cleavage and legs). Interesting, how the visual changes the impression.

[TheMotownManiac]

I don’t know who was in charge during The Pedro Years, but Motown had final say. I liked the MSS cover except that it emphasized that the group was just three women called The Supremes......many folks didn’t even know who Mary was - too bad as the album had great stuff on it and Mary shined. That’s why I think high-energy did well because without faces all you had was the familiar pose which I think Drew people who love the group to it.

[sup_fan]

I have an old fan club magazine, I think they originally announced the final lp as Scherrie, Mary & Susaye.

And agree - Motown's promotion and art depts would have had final say. I'm just guessing that Pedro and mary were more involved with providing direction to them than previous Sup lineups.

they definitely were searching for an identity when Lynda joined. that's around the same time they did a big 180 with their show and pulled out all sorts of DRATS garbage like TCB, Somewhere, You're Nobody. and the 70s hits got even less prominence - all wedged into a medley, except for Stoned. Those S&C dresses were new for the MJL lineup. they might have looked a bit more youthful had they ditched the feather bolero jackets. The short Flip dresses are great and that's a wonderful performance of YWSSL. Then they had those long dark purple gowns for Lean on Me on flip. the crazy floral gowns used in LA and then those bland chiffon ones on Kate Smith. although not my fav, the floral ones might have been the more contemporary. They were definitely not consistent in how they should present themselves

another story is the Operation PUSH concert in Chicago. apparently the Sups did they're vegas-y show and got lukewarm response from the mostly black and younger audience. Although Mary's book says they went over well and were unfortunately cut from the video broadcast, others have said they didn't.

[Boogiedown]

......but enough about Smokey :rolleyes:
............lol!:p

[sup_fan]

......but enough about Smokey :rolleyes:
............lol!:p

haha - frankly I have to say I don't think the combo of Smokey and the Supremes ever really found it's stride. regardless of who was in the group. There's the pre-WDOLG stuff which is perfectly fine and nice, but sounds like the Sups doing Mary Wells covers.

Then in the DRATS era, I found just about all of their smokey tunes sub-par. obviously The Composer is hideous lol. But Treat Me Nice John Henry, Will This Be The Day, He's My Sunny Boy, Are You Sure Love, Sweet Thing are all lackluster IMO.

The Floy Joy set is about the strongest overall Smokey work. But I wouldn't list it as the best of MJC either.

There are a few tunes I really like - Long Gone Lover. After All is a fav from the very early sessions, but mostly cuz it's a shared lead amongst all 4 girls.

[RanRan79]

obviously The Composer is hideous lol.

Says who?:p I love the song. I think everything about it is beautiful. But it was a HORRIBLE choice for a single. ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE. Perhaps the worst choice for a single during any Supremes era, IMO.

But I agree about the Supremes and Smokey. It just wasn't a good match, his productions and the group, as far as churning out spectacular cuts that could sell millions, like his marriages with Mary Wells and the Tempts, even the Marvelettes, to a lesser degree. But I do think he gave the girls quality songs, but mostly album filler.

On the other hand, he did produce what is probably my favorite Supremes single, "A Breath Taking Guy". Go figure.

[midnightman]

^ Breath Taking Guy and Floy Joy were the only Smokey-penned songs that the Supremes shined on. Real talk.

[sup_fan]

I guess my biggest nitpick with Smokey is his choice of lyrics. yes, yes. I know Dylan and others refer to him as a poetic genius. but, for my taste, his lyrics often get too silly and ridiculous. maybe they're just too poetic

He's My Sunny Boy - "looks good in everything from silk to corduroy. or mohair!!"

The Composer - "you may not know what quarter notes are or what I mean by four to the bar. HEY! HEY! HEY! HEY!"

Will This Be the Day - sitting and combing her hair, drawing her bath :p

They're just goofy lolol. maybe not as bad as poor Diana's mother tripping over unrolled stockings and dropping dead into her pot of homemade jam. but they're bad

To me, songs like Symphony, My World, Someday, Ladder are very descriptive. create great illustrations in your mind. but without being corny.

[gman]

The Composer was a weak choice for a single. It would have worked better as a departure sounding ending to one side of a LP featuring 4 or 5 previous strong songs....would have been something different like Kiss Me Now ending the side on DR 1976. Those 3 singles on the Let The Sunshine In LP get a lot of flak...

[marv2]

Says who?:p I love the song. I think everything about it is beautiful. But it was a HORRIBLE choice for a single. ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE. Perhaps the worst choice for a single during any Supremes era, IMO.

But I agree about the Supremes and Smokey. It just wasn't a good match, his productions and the group, as far as churning out spectacular cuts that could sell millions, like his marriages with Mary Wells and the Tempts, even the Marvelettes, to a lesser degree. But I do think he gave the girls quality songs, but mostly album filler.

On the other hand, he did produce what is probably my favorite Supremes single, "A Breath Taking Guy". Go figure.

I think Smokey did a great job with the "Floy Joy" album.

[marv2]

I guess my biggest nitpick with Smokey is his choice of lyrics. yes, yes. I know Dylan and others refer to him as a poetic genius. but, for my taste, his lyrics often get too silly and ridiculous. maybe they're just too poetic

He's My Sunny Boy - "looks good in everything from silk to corduroy. or mohair!!"

The Composer - "you may not know what quarter notes are or what I mean by four to the bar. HEY! HEY! HEY! HEY!"

Will This Be the Day - sitting and combing her hair, drawing her bath :p

They're just goofy lolol. maybe not as bad as poor Diana's mother tripping over unrolled stockings and dropping dead into her pot of homemade jam. but they're bad

To me, songs like Symphony, My World, Someday, Ladder are very descriptive. create great illustrations in your mind. but without being corny.

FACT: It wasn't Bob Dylan that originally came up with that tag for Smokey "The Greatest Living Poet". That came from my friend Mr. Al Abrams! He made that one up and Dylan used it during a taped interview.

[TomatoTom123]

I think I've read that Bob Dylan never actually said, or came up with, that phrase... even though I totally agree with it. ;)

Ah there you go Marv has explained all

Anyway I think Smokey did some great stuff with The Supremes... as mentioned the Floy Joy album, which is great... "The Composer", which I love... "Sunny Boy", which I also love. Maybe the Smokey material seems lesser because of all the hit Holland-Dozier-Holland stuff The Supremes had. And there was a lot of that. :)

[midnightman]

Yeah Dylan never came up with that.

[marv2]

I think I've read that Bob Dylan never actually said, or came up with, that phrase... even though I totally agree with it. ;)

Ah there you go Marv has explained all

Anyway I think Smokey did some great stuff with The Supremes... as mentioned the Floy Joy album, which is great... "The Composer", which I love... "Sunny Boy", which I also love. Maybe the Smokey material seems lesser because of all the hit Holland-Dozier-Holland stuff The Supremes had. And there was a lot of that. :)

He, Bob Dylan said it and there is a video tape of him on Youtube saying it. I think it was from a 60 minutes interview. In any case, they used the clip of Bob Dylan saying that in the "Motown 40, The Music Is Forever" television special from 1998. But Al Abrams came up with the phrase.

[marybrewster]

I wonder why during the banter between Smokey and the Supremes, that Cindy wasn't given a line?

[marv2]

I wonder why during the banter between Smokey and the Supremes, that Cindy wasn't given a line?

She got a line and a laugh later in the program when they were all sitting around looking at "pictures" and Smokey claimed on of them was of Cindy, nude..but it was her baby picture. They all later took turns singing songs written by Smokey.

[RanRan79]

^ Breath Taking Guy and Floy Joy were the only Smokey-penned songs that the Supremes shined on. Real talk.

I think they shined on a few more than that. "Your Heart Belongs to Me" being one, which also happened to be the cut that got the girls on the chart and IMO was the first recording that really gives listeners a clue as to what they might accomplish in the future. Dare I say it's the first cut they recorded that seemed to usher them out of the teen girl mode of "Popcorn" and "DJ Shows" into a more sophisticated sound.

Other Smokey songs that I think they shined on are "Mr. Blues", "Take Me Where You Go" and "Long Gone Lover". There are some others that I like, but these I would categorize as "shine".

[midnightman]

I think they shined on a few more than that. "Your Heart Belongs to Me" being one, which also happened to be the cut that got the girls on the chart and IMO was the first recording that really gives listeners a clue as to what they might accomplish in the future. Dare I say it's the first cut they recorded that seemed to usher them out of the teen girl mode of "Popcorn" and "DJ Shows" into a more sophisticated sound.

Other Smokey songs that I think they shined on are "Mr. Blues", "Take Me Where You Go" and "Long Gone Lover". There are some others that I like, but these I would categorize as "shine".

I forgot YHBTM. You're right! I also forgot he did Long Gone Lover for them. *DOH*

[RanRan79]

I guess my biggest nitpick with Smokey is his choice of lyrics. yes, yes. I know Dylan and others refer to him as a poetic genius. but, for my taste, his lyrics often get too silly and ridiculous. maybe they're just too poetic

He's My Sunny Boy - "looks good in everything from silk to corduroy. or mohair!!"

The Composer - "you may not know what quarter notes are or what I mean by four to the bar. HEY! HEY! HEY! HEY!"

Will This Be the Day - sitting and combing her hair, drawing her bath :p

They're just goofy lolol. maybe not as bad as poor Diana's mother tripping over unrolled stockings and dropping dead into her pot of homemade jam. but they're bad

To me, songs like Symphony, My World, Someday, Ladder are very descriptive. create great illustrations in your mind. but without being corny.

It's hard to stomach someone referring to Smokey's lyrics as corny, but if that's how they affect you...:rolleyes: But seriously, I guess they can be a bit syrupy. But I love it.

[RanRan79]

I think Smokey did a great job with the "Floy Joy" album.

Agreed. I can listen to the album all the way through, though I really don't care for "Now the Bitter" [[there has to be an outtake in the vaults that's better than that song) or "Oh Be My Love", but I can listen to those two songs without cringing. I frequently specifically play "Automatically Sunshine", "A Heart Like Mine", "Precious Little Things" and "Wisdom of Time".