DRATS: Fall of '69

[marybrewster]

The thead on the DRATS concert poster from September of 1969 got me thinking: the story goes that once "Someday" started climbing the charts, that preparations for their "Farewell" tour starting taking place, ending with Vegas in January of 1970.

But I'm curious: how far in advance were the DRATS typically booked, for concert or television appearances? "Someday" was released in October, but wouldn't it be fair to guess that they had bookings well into the next year? 6 months at the very least? And interesting that a ticket in October to see the group might have been a few $; in Vegas it might have been 10x that just 3 months later. Anyway.....

So would Diana have left the group regardless if their "swan song" was a hit? I once heard that "These Things" from Diana's debut LP might have been considered as the next single? But assuming Diana did leave, if there were appearances scheduled, who took those? Diana? Or the "New" Supremes? Or were those dates cancelled? And how do you suppose payment worked? For instance, the Copa is paying X $ for Diana, Mary, and Cindy. But now they're getting Jean. Does their pay go down without the recognizable lead?

[gman]

Many good thoughts above...Most likely the multi performance engagements [[hotel, casino, nightclub) were booked well in advance and the isolated one night appearances were scheduled closer to the performance dates. These 60's /70's pop acts who had crossover adult market appeal also had to be presented to 2 different audiences. The kids who kept the $ coming in from the record sales were a very different audience than the "bigger picture"/prestige gig supper club crowd. Other than recognizing the songs and being glad to hear them, I suppose most of these younger folk probably cringed at Gil's arrangements and the inclusion of all the show tunes and warhorses that were always there.

[Motown Eddie]

The thead on the DRATS concert poster from September of 1969 got me thinking: the story goes that once "Someday" started climbing the charts, that preparations for their "Farewell" tour starting taking place, ending with Vegas in January of 1970.

But I'm curious: how far in advance were the DRATS typically booked, for concert or television appearances? "Someday" was released in October, but wouldn't it be fair to guess that they had bookings well into the next year? 6 months at the very least? And interesting that a ticket in October to see the group might have been a few $; in Vegas it might have been 10x that just 3 months later. Anyway.....

So would Diana have left the group regardless if their "swan song" was a hit? I once heard that "These Things" from Diana's debut LP might have been considered as the next single? But assuming Diana did leave, if there were appearances scheduled, who took those? Diana? Or the "New" Supremes? Or were those dates cancelled? And how do you suppose payment worked? For instance, the Copa is paying X $ for Diana, Mary, and Cindy. But now they're getting Jean. Does their pay go down without the recognizable lead?

Those are all good questions. I don't know how Motown made their plans with Las Vegas & concert promoters regarding Diana Ross & the Supremes. But one thing I can you is that Berry Gordy wanted the group to go out on a #1 hit [[see the entry for "No Matter What Sign You Are" on TCMS-1969 for BG's comments on that matter). And if "Someday We'll Be Together" didn't top the charts, I'm sure Motown would've used "These Things Will Keep Me Loving You" [[or "Ain't No Mountain High Enough") as the final DRATS single.

[RanRan79]

I agree with Gman, that the big time gigs were booked well in advance, while the smaller ones were scheduled closer to date. Wasn't Jean signed in the middle of 1969? And she has said that she was always signed to be Diana's replacement. I'm thinking that Gordy knew then when he planned to take Diana solo. Diana Ross and the Supremes were his biggest act, which he hoped to segue into Diana Ross being his biggest act. I can't imagine that her actual exit was predicated on a number one hit, even if that was the hope. Too much planning seems to have gone into it all. So I always figured that when Diana left, whatever was already on the schedule, the Supremes played those gigs, while Diana solo had her own gigs to book.

[luke]

As I recall Diana was booked into Miami club and the Supremes into...oops I can’t remember but I believe it’s In Mary’s book that they were booked a number of months into future

[sup_fan]

yes contracts for shows are signed months ahead of time but the girls were almost always playing big gigs. They were appearing in Vegas at least yearly and they continued to play Vegas regularly for many years post-Diana. The decision to finally pull Diana from the group simply meant that as of that date, she would/wouldn't be appearing but the Supremes would still have been performing in the venues.

No Matter was released on 5/9/69 and then the immediate performance on Ed Sullivan on 5/11/69. Let's say the reception from the Sullivan show was strong and it hit the air waves hard and started selling out in record stores immediately. They would have know that it was going to be a hit and so they could have planned pulled her from the group in mid-69. it's very possible that the Dec/Jan booking for Frontier would already have been finalized and simply would have been handled by the New Supremes.

or conversely, had Someday not been a hit and they released something on the DRATS in early spring 1970 that was a hit, then the booking the group did in August for Vegas could have been the farewell and the live work with Jean delayed until then. They would have simply adjusted the itineraries as necessary

Someday began to sell quickly right after it was released. it's a marvelous recording and radio and fans took to it immediately. so they knew right away that it would be "the one" and then probably ramped up even more promotional work to push it all the way to #1. I'm guessing with No Matter What Sign release date and Sullivan performance being in the same week, they knew pretty quickly it wasn't going to sell and was a dud. By end of May I'm guessing the sales were low enough to show the promotional dept that nothing could make this a hit, so back to the drawing board.

[midnightman]

Many good thoughts above...Most likely the multi performance engagements [[hotel, casino, nightclub) were booked well in advance and the isolated one night appearances were scheduled closer to the performance dates. These 60's /70's pop acts who had crossover adult market appeal also had to be presented to 2 different audiences. The kids who kept the $ coming in from the record sales were a very different audience than the "bigger picture"/prestige gig supper club crowd. Other than recognizing the songs and being glad to hear them, I suppose most of these younger folk probably cringed at Gil's arrangements and the inclusion of all the show tunes and warhorses that were always there.

I always wondered what a youth-only Supremes performance [[after they hit the big time) would've sounded... I'm surprised no one was doing bootleg recordings of those Supremes performances. Like to hear Diana, Mary & Cindy cutting up. :)

[sup_fan]

after early 65, the girls weren't appearing very often in revues. rather they were doing stand-alone appearances on the concert trail. of course they'd have an opening act - maybe a comedian or a smaller group. and they did do some revue concerts. In spring 68 they performed with several other Motown acts in Atlanta for the benefit for MLK.

But for the most part, they were doing their own 45+ min show. we've all heard the recordings that have been released - both official releases and bootlegs. in all of those they've using their standard nightclub act. same with the Orient video tapes. same with the Hollywood Bowl appearance. sometimes the order of songs alters a bit but they're not swapping out significant parts of their show for a "older audience/nightclub" set and a "younger audience/college data" set.

I agree that as time went on, this should have been more of their approach. especially in the 70s. it would have helped them stay more relevant by doing more of their material and less of Somewhere

[bradsupremes]

I don’t think Gordy wanted to keep Diana in the group longer than needed. I doubt he would have kept her in the group if “Someday We’ll Be Together” didn’t hit the top of the charts. 1970 was the cut off year. Hit or no hit, she would be on her own in 1970.

I’m rather surprised they didn’t have two shows for the ladies. One for their nightclub act and another for their youth crowd. The Hollywood Bowl show was specifically crafted for that crowd. It was predominantly most of their hits with a majority of their nightclub tunes removed. They would have been wise to keep this show and use it for their college/one night shows across the country.

I noticed once 1968 came around, they stopped changing their show. Unlike previous years when the show was overhauled just about every year. I feel like they gave up in 1968 and didn’t bother to change much of anything with a few exceptions here or there. I know “Forever Came Today,” “Some Things You Never Get Used To,” and “I’m Livin’ In Shame” were all in the show for a brief time before being removed once the songs failed to hit. “Livin’ In Shame” was taken out because Diana didn’t like singing it. It really wasn’t until late 1969 that they shook it up a bit for Farewell. I would have assumed they would have done a Funny Girl medley or “Don’t Rain On My Parade” like Diana later did for her solo shows.

Did anyone see them in late summer 1968/early fall 1968 before “Love Child?” What were they performing as their “latest” recording?

[marybrewster]

"In and Out of Love" was released on October 25, 1967.

If memory serves me right, on the "Talk of the Town" lp, Diana introduces it as their latest recording. "Talk of the Town" was recorded in February of 1968.

"Forever Came Today" was released on February 29, 1968. So it's safe to assume that "Talk" was recorded prior to "Forever's" release.

"Something's You Never Get Used To" was released on May 21, 1968.

"Love Child" was released on September 30, 1968.

It would be interesting to know how many dates DRATS played between February 28 and September 30. Knowing that their set changed very little in this time period, it's a wonder if "Forever" or "Something's" were ever performed live, in concert, at all?

[milven]

As I recall Diana was booked into Miami club and the Supremes into...oops I can’t remember but I believe it’s In Mary’s book that they were booked a number of months into future

I saw Diana soon after she left the group. She was at the Eden Roc in Miami doing her "Can Diana Make It On Her Own" show. She did her gown changes right on stage behind a curtain that was on side of stage. The New Supremes were also in Miami at the time and we got to see them too. It was a fun week, because we also got to see Gladys Knight and the Pips.

Not much later in NYC, we saw the New Supremes at the Copa. Both Diana and the New Supremes put on terrific shows

[bradsupremes]

"In and Out of Love" was released on October 25, 1967.

If memory serves me right, on the "Talk of the Town" lp, Diana introduces it as their latest recording. "Talk of the Town" was recorded in February of 1968.

"Forever Came Today" was released on February 29, 1968. So it's safe to assume that "Talk" was recorded prior to "Forever's" release.

"Something's You Never Get Used To" was released on May 21, 1968.

"Love Child" was released on September 30, 1968.

It would be interesting to know how many dates DRATS played between February 28 and September 30. Knowing that their set changed very little in this time period, it's a wonder if "Forever" or "Something's" were ever performed live, in concert, at all?

I have a concert review from March 1968 that stated they performed their latest single "Forever Came Today." This would make sense as "Reflections" was added into the act in August 1967 shortly after its release. The question is how long it was in the act before they ditched it. I also would really love to know how it was done and how it sounded. We can only go off of the Ed Sullivan Show performance where Mary & Cindy sounded like they were singing in the highest pitch possible. And if I remember correctly, I believe someone on here said they saw them do "Some Things" at either Carter Barron in DC or at Forest Hills in New York. Those were summer dates. I think June or July. I assume they performed quite a bit during this time as they really weren't doing many TV appearances. They were recording a bit, but they would be out on the road.

[sup_fan]

revamping the show requires huge amounts of money and rehearsal time. new choreography, lighting cues, orchestrations and charts and more. by 68 they had a LOT of material in their book. so the need to revamp the show completely might have been less. rather than totally re-do, they could pull back up material they did before.

for 67/68, seems like the big redo was the mame/rose/millie medley. and then the hits medley. they also did the Symphony medley and the Beatles medley, along with Sam Cooke. so the nightclub show at that point was structured around those medleys. when they stopped using them as much, I'm not sure. by Dec 68, they had the charts and music from TCB. wonder if throughout 69, they were using TCB opening for all of their shows, like they did Farewell. And wonder when did they start using Sunshine?

I'd be interested in learning more about other songs briefly in the act - Enjoy Yourself, Let There Be Love, Day By Day. seems like these didn't have long lifes. why? what other songs didn't catch on

and if Millie/Rose/Mame was such a hit, why didn't they pull in Funny Girl or Fats Waller medley? of any of the other DRATS era tv songs.

[sup_fan]

here's an idea :)

especially if Andy is reading hehe

what about a Supremes Live Expanded Edition? hearing the early shows [[on Meet and Where), the pre Copa live material on More Hits, then Expanded Copa and the Rooster Tail show gives us a great picture of what they were doing, when, how the songs evolved and their showmanship developed. And of course many songs didn't change hugely over the years. but to do a retrospective throughout the 60s on what they were doing live, how they tested materials and concepts, what worked or didnt' work.

they've said there's tons of live material still vaulted up. in addition to squeezing them into various Expanded Editions, this would be a marvelous way to get them released.

[midnightman]

Interesting they supposedly stopped changing their show after 1968...

[RanRan79]

I don’t think Gordy wanted to keep Diana in the group longer than needed. I doubt he would have kept her in the group if “Someday We’ll Be Together” didn’t hit the top of the charts. 1970 was the cut off year. Hit or no hit, she would be on her own in 1970.

My thoughts exactly. Gordy was smart enough to know there are no guaranteed hits. Had he waited on a number one, Ross could've been in the group for another year or more. He had things he wanted her to do. He signed Jean in mid 1969 to take her place, gave the new Supremes roughly 6 months to get used to one another, started working on Diana's solo career plans, and sealed a date of January 14, 1970 as the split. There is no way I'll ever believe this wasn't planned down to the minute.

[RanRan79]

I'd be interested in learning more about other songs briefly in the act - Enjoy Yourself, Let There Be Love, Day By Day. seems like these didn't have long lifes. why? what other songs didn't catch on

and if Millie/Rose/Mame was such a hit, why didn't they pull in Funny Girl or Fats Waller medley? of any of the other DRATS era tv songs.

I'd like to know what kind of thought went into the song lineup too. It would seem that after so long, stuff like the Symphony medley and Sam Cooke medley would get old. So why not do the Fats Waller Medley [[which was arguably the best vocal performance of Diana Ross and the Supremes lineup...all three were on point)?

"Let There Be Love" was a great addition to the act. Why drop it? It was a great showcase for their harmony. I'm glad they got rid of "Enjoy Yourself". I think that's the worst vocal performance of Mary's career.

And why in the world would the Supremes [[during the Diana years) appear to stop performing the song that put them on the map: "Where Did Our Love Go"? They didn't even include it in the hits medley on the last Sullivan show appearance. I wonder if someone didn't like the song?

[luke]

Great idea sup!

[sup_fan]

[QUOTE=RanRan79;440541]I'd like to know what kind of thought went into the song lineup too. It would seem that after so long, stuff like the Symphony medley and Sam Cooke medley would get old. So why not do the Fats Waller Medley [[which was arguably the best vocal performance of Diana Ross and the Supremes lineup...all three were on point)?

I'm going off of some foggy memory here but I think Andy mentioned that Where Did Our Love Go didn't remain in the act as long as other early hits because the girls still didn't really like it. I'm sure they had some input on material in their shows, in terms of likes or dislikes. and as the hits piled up, they had to either cut some or reduce to medleys. And I'm figuring that they opted to cut Where since they supposedly just didn't like it as much as Come See or Baby Love.

I too thought Let There Be Love was a great rendition. it was fun, fast paced. maybe once they did R&H they replaced it with Lady is a Tramp?

I think Enjoy Yourself would have worked much better if

1) Diana got the lyrics right, she stumbles over a couple in verse 1
2) the intro patter was worked out - wonder if this was a late addition and seems like her intro patter isn't well rehearsed
3) mary sounds a bit over amped at the beginning but comes across rather sexy as she says the last few words. there's a light moan from her too if you listen carefully as Diana picks up the chorus
4) flo should have done her verse. why on earth didn't she?!?!? during the chorus you hear Diana ask each girl "are you singing?" and then there's some mumble [[guessing flo is saying no) and then Diana says something like "you're leaving it all to me" or something like that [[at work and can't listen to it right here). then Diana makes the line about flo being scared and goes into the verse. it's a funny and goofy lyric, Flo would have been hilarious on it had she done it!

I guess they decided to stick with Queen of House as the comic song in the act.

"Let There Be Love" was a great addition to the act. Why drop it? It was a great showcase for their harmony. I'm glad they got rid of "Enjoy Yourself". I think that's the worst vocal performance of Mary's career.

And why in the world would the Supremes [[during the Diana years) appear to stop performing the song that put them on the map: "Where Did Our Love Go"? They didn't even include it in the hits medley on the last Sullivan show appearance. I wonder if someone didn't like the song?

[sup_fan]

actually come to think of it, both Tonight and Enjoy Yourself are pretty rough on the Copa Expanded Edition set. neither seem to be as polished or rehearsed as the other tracks. for such a mega-important gig, you'd think Berry would be less willing to have the girls do songs that seem less prepared.

[reese]

I think Enjoy Yourself would have worked much better if

1) Diana got the lyrics right, she stumbles over a couple in verse 1
2) the intro patter was worked out - wonder if this was a late addition and seems like her intro patter isn't well rehearsed
3) mary sounds a bit over amped at the beginning but comes across rather sexy as she says the last few words. there's a light moan from her too if you listen carefully as Diana picks up the chorus
4) flo should have done her verse. why on earth didn't she?!?!? during the chorus you hear Diana ask each girl "are you singing?" and then there's some mumble [[guessing flo is saying no) and then Diana says something like "you're leaving it all to me" or something like that [[at work and can't listen to it right here). then Diana makes the line about flo being scared and goes into the verse. it's a funny and goofy lyric, Flo would have been hilarious on it had she done it!



I think Flo was suffering from the flu during the first Copa engagement and was slightly hoarse. I vaguely recall Andy or George saying that was why she didn't sing her verse. Also, I believe the version on the Copa expanded set was the only time that song was recorded. So she might have done it later in the engagement.

[marybrewster]

Since we're on the topic of medleys, I wonder why "My World" had such a long shelf life in the act when it clearly wasn't a big hit like several others.

[George Solomon]

I think the 66 Roostertail show that we used on the expanded I HEAR A SYMPHONY is a great show. There is a mixed Roostertail live album in the vaults in stereo from 1966 but it isn't nearly as complete as what we did a few years ago. In an effort not to repeat any songs from the Copa LP, the original Roostertail album was very short, only 10 songs, almost no patter at all and there were tracks that were actually unused from the 1965 Copa show. Track list: Side One: Tonight/The Way You Look Tonight [[from the Copa 65), Yesterday, Where Did Our Love Go [[Copa 65), Nothing But Heartaches [[Copa 65), Enjoy Yourself [[Copa 65) Side Two: Michelle, More, I Hear A Symphony, You Can't Hurry Love, With A Song In My Heart Medley.

[RanRan79]

I'm going off of some foggy memory here but I think Andy mentioned that Where Did Our Love Go didn't remain in the act as long as other early hits because the girls still didn't really like it.

Must've been a two against one- Diana and Mary vs Flo- because Flo claimed "Where Did Our Love Go" was her favorite. It's one of my favs too and I hate that we don't really get to hear it past the first Copa gig.

[RanRan79]

Since we're on the topic of medleys, I wonder why "My World" had such a long shelf life in the act when it clearly wasn't a big hit like several others.

Two thoughts: if the girls could have any say in not doing a single they didn't like [[such as "Where Did Our Love Go"), perhaps they also might have a say in keeping a song around that they did like a lot. And considering how often Mary and Diana still sang/sing it in their post Supremes' careers, I'm guessing the two of them loved the song quite a bit.

On the other hand, I think "My World" may have been a bigger hit than it's chart positions suggests. I think it may have been a very popular record. I don't often listen to the radio these days, but when I did listen to oldies stations or r&b stations that would play classic soul back in the 90s and early 2000s, I heard "My World Is Empty Without You" much more than I heard "Back In My Arms Again" or even "Love Is Here and Now You're Gone", and both songs were across the board number one hits.

[sup_fan]

seems like by 67, they decided to redo how they present the hits. again, i'm guessing it's mostly because of the number of hits they had and wanting to keep really just the recent ones in the show in full length.

they usually seem to have 4 - 5 spots in the show for full length hits, plus the hits medley. one of the faster songs like Happening or You Keep Me Hanging On would always be used for the ploy of "here's a soft sweet ballad from West Side Story..."


for the medley, i think from a rhythm perspective Where Did Our Love Go is a bit slow. like Baby Love. so I think only 1 of those would work particularly well in the medley. Think back to the disco medley that was released in late 70s. it's a bit of an unusual transition between Where and Baby Love.

[marv2]

They made the announcement in Detroit via CKLW in October 1969. I can't remember if they gave the that date at that time of the farewell concerts.

[Thornton]

I think Flo was suffering from the flu during the first Copa engagement and was slightly hoarse. I vaguely recall Andy or George saying that was why she didn't sing her verse. Also, I believe the version on the Copa expanded set was the only time that song was recorded. So she might have done it later in the engagement.

I don't know if it was the flu, or anxiety over performing at the Copa, but Flo also did not want to do "People", which was cut from their run at the Copa. That's the story I recall hearing.

[marv2]

I don't know if it was the flu, or anxiety over performing at the Copa, but Flo also did not want to do "People", which was cut from their run at the Copa. That's the story I recall hearing.

Florence was hoarse from a cold. She asked Diane if she would sing it, "People". After that, it became Diane's song.

[bradsupremes]

Florence was hoarse from a cold. She asked Diane if she would sing it, "People". After that, it became Diane's song.

This is what confuses me about that story. They did “People” for the Roostertail in September 1966 with Flo on tlead and Mary taking over Diana’s spot in the song. It couldn’t have been that Flo was sick, asked Diana to sing it and then it was hers from then on if it was performed well into late 1966 with Flo doing lead. Something about that doesn’t line up. For whatever reason it was dropped from the show afterward; maybe when they revamped their act in 1967.

[George Solomon]

The whole "People" saga is funny to me and I think it might have been discussed before. I've never seen this number as the Florence show stopper so many claimed it to be. It was a group number in which they all sang together with Florence on melody. From the very beginning Diana took that part close to the end "with one person ..." and later it became Mary's solo as well [[as we heard at the Roostertail and in the Orient). To me that was the most featured spot in the number. Gil told me the number was in and out quite a bit when FLORENCE requested they take it out whenever she wasn't feeling up to it. It seems that it was dropped for good in 1967. I loved Florence and wish she had sung more. It would have been great if she had "Ain't That Good News" in the Sam Cooke medley. I think others might see this differently and many people can tell a different story. It seems they were hesitant to give her too much not knowing how much they could rely on her. I am not blaming her for this but Gil said she was "under the weather" more than Mary and Diana and I think that isn't news to anyone. In my opinion "People" wasn't a great addition to the act. I found the harmony and arrangement a bit clumsy. And remember "People" and "I Am Woman" were in the act even before they got their new show for the Copa in 65. I can understand why they'd retire it. They also lost other numbers from the 65 Copa show along the way. I apologize if I veered off the original topic. I was enjoying this discussion of their live shows.

[thommg]

I think Enjoy Yourself would have worked much better if


4) flo should have done her verse. why on earth didn't she?!?!? during the chorus you hear Diana ask each girl "are you singing?" and then there's some mumble [[guessing flo is saying no) and then Diana says something like "you're leaving it all to me" or something like that [[at work and can't listen to it right here). then Diana makes the line about flo being scared and goes into the verse. it's a funny and goofy lyric, Flo would have been hilarious on it had she done it!

I don't believe Diana's "Are you singing?" ad libs are directed at Mary & Flo. She asked the audience to sing along and I think she talking to them. When she says "You're leaving it all up to me" it's because the audience member isn't singing with her. You can hear Mary & Flo in the background so she isn't talking to them.

[RanRan79]

The whole "People" saga is funny to me and I think it might have been discussed before. I've never seen this number as the Florence show stopper so many claimed it to be. It was a group number in which they all sang together with Florence on melody. From the very beginning Diana took that part close to the end "with one person ..." and later it became Mary's solo as well [[as we heard at the Roostertail and in the Orient). To me that was the most featured spot in the number. Gil told me the number was in and out quite a bit when FLORENCE requested they take it out whenever she wasn't feeling up to it. It seems that it was dropped for good in 1967. I loved Florence and wish she had sung more. It would have been great if she had "Ain't That Good News" in the Sam Cooke medley. I think others might see this differently and many people can tell a different story. It seems they were hesitant to give her too much not knowing how much they could rely on her. I am not blaming her for this but Gil said she was "under the weather" more than Mary and Diana and I think that isn't news to anyone. In my opinion "People" wasn't a great addition to the act. I found the harmony and arrangement a bit clumsy. And remember "People" and "I Am Woman" were in the act even before they got their new show for the Copa in 65. I can understand why they'd retire it. They also lost other numbers from the 65 Copa show along the way. I apologize if I veered off the original topic. I was enjoying this discussion of their live shows.

It was never a Flo solo and no one ever took it away from Flo and gave it to Diana. That is something Mary came up with to add to the drama of her book, not realizing that the internet was coming and bootlegged audio and video would be easily accessed to debunk certain assertions. I'm not sure why Marv would continue to peddle the lie.

As for the song itself, I think it's a highlight of the act when it's present. I love the harmony and the arrangement. [[My favorite version is from the Orient video. Wish it was cleaned up and released.) But I hate "Somewhere" and apparently some folks love it, so it is what it is. But "Good News" was a obvious missed opportunity for the Sam Cooke medley. Under the weather or not, or whatever the reasons were, Flo's lead singing was sadly underused.

[marv2]

It was never a Flo solo and no one ever took it away from Flo and gave it to Diana. That is something Mary came up with to add to the drama of her book, not realizing that the internet was coming and bootlegged audio and video would be easily accessed to debunk certain assertions. I'm not sure why Marv would continue to peddle the lie.

As for the song itself, I think it's a highlight of the act when it's present. I love the harmony and the arrangement. [[My favorite version is from the Orient video. Wish it was cleaned up and released.) But I hate "Somewhere" and apparently some folks love it, so it is what it is. But "Good News" was a obvious missed opportunity for the Sam Cooke medley. Under the weather or not, or whatever the reasons were, Flo's lead singing was sadly underused.

I am telling you I am really getting tired of having to do this, but you seem to always want to believe bullshit and never the truth. I guess that is just the type of person that you are. Go to 30:46 in this video:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nczF8-jRVlY&spfreload=10

[sup_fan]

The whole "People" saga is funny to me and I think it might have been discussed before. I've never seen this number as the Florence show stopper so many claimed it to be. It was a group number in which they all sang together with Florence on melody. From the very beginning Diana took that part close to the end "with one person ..." and later it became Mary's solo as well [[as we heard at the Roostertail and in the Orient). To me that was the most featured spot in the number. Gil told me the number was in and out quite a bit when FLORENCE requested they take it out whenever she wasn't feeling up to it. It seems that it was dropped for good in 1967. I loved Florence and wish she had sung more. It would have been great if she had "Ain't That Good News" in the Sam Cooke medley. I think others might see this differently and many people can tell a different story. It seems they were hesitant to give her too much not knowing how much they could rely on her. I am not blaming her for this but Gil said she was "under the weather" more than Mary and Diana and I think that isn't news to anyone. In my opinion "People" wasn't a great addition to the act. I found the harmony and arrangement a bit clumsy. And remember "People" and "I Am Woman" were in the act even before they got their new show for the Copa in 65. I can understand why they'd retire it. They also lost other numbers from the 65 Copa show along the way. I apologize if I veered off the original topic. I was enjoying this discussion of their live shows.

great insights George. I agree that this is not the most amazing song. frankly I'm not even that big of a fan of Barbra's rendition. it's just not a fav song of mine. I think there are so many other tunes they could have used and things that would have shown off Flo's vocal powers and range much better than this. I just don't think she's the best balladeer of the group. her forte was more towards a soulful sound, although I realize that wasn't the direction the group was looking for.

It would have been great if they built the Sam Cooke medley to highlight the three individual girls more. give mary more in Chain Gang and then include Good News.

[sup_fan]

George - have there been any other song discoveries that you're aware of in the live shows? like Let There Be Love that was a wonderful surprise in the Roosertail set. where there other pieces that made brief appearances in their set?

[luke]

Thanks Marv. Is that when Otis talks about what a great singer Flo was? Can’t listen now

[marv2]

Thanks Marv. Is that when Otis talks about what a great singer Flo was? Can’t listen now

You're welcome Luke and yes it is where Otis Williams praises Florence's singing talents.

[RanRan79]

I am telling you I am really getting tired of having to do this, but you seem to always want to believe bullshit and never the truth. I guess that is just the type of person that you are. Go to 30:46 in this video:

Didn't I already tell you that I don't give a fuck what you're tired of doing? LOL I'm pretty sure I told you that a few days or so ago. I'm almost certain. Anyway here's the thing: Mary Wilson lied about "People" in her book, and in this Unsung episode Flo's cousin repeats the lie. There's no documentation to back up the claim that during the first Copa run, "People" was yanked from Florence and given to Diana and Florence never sang it again. I do believe the song was taken out of the act during the first Copa run but there is no evidence that it was given to Diana. What we do know about the Supremes' version of "People" is this:

1) The song appears in their act at least as early as their ill fated 20 Grand Nightclub appearance when "Where Did Our Love Go" was their only number one hit. Florence and Diana share the lead.

2) The song is still in the act during the Motortown Revue in Paris in early 1965 with Flo and Diana sharing the lead.

3) The song was taken out of the act for the first Copa gig. No evidence that it was put back in but as a Diana lead.

4) The song was back in the act by the first Roostertail gig in January 1966 and based off of an article about Flo's mother attending this gig and her reaction to "People" I assume Flo is doing her usual lead parts. No idea if Diana or Mary are sharing the lead with her.

5) The song was still in the act during the girls' September 1966 tour of Asia and their Roostertail gig the same month. In both recorded evidence, Florence is still singing her usual lead parts but now Mary is singing the part that Diana used to do.

Now if you can present evidence that refutes anything I've have just typed, by all means, please do. Because unlike your accusation that I "always want to believe bullshit and never the truth", I actually do prefer truth over bullshit. But you can't put syrup on a biscuit and call it a pancake and just expect me to take your word for it if it doesn't make sense. Mary claimed Flo never did the song again past their 1965 Copa gig and that Diana was doing it. That just isn't true. I've posted my evidence, now you post something other than a recycled story to contradict my claim. I'll wait...

[BigAl]

I think we all know now that they tossed that song around like a volleyball.

When I saw them in August of '66, Flo led the first couple of verses, followed by Diane, and then Flo came back in at the end with the finish we're all familiar with. Mary did not take a lead that time. My recollection is that they clustered around one microphone as well, at least at the end, but memory might not be serving me correctly on that. I do remember that Flo moved from the end to the center during the number.

I'm guessing it all might have depended upon a number of factors, possibly even down to the last minutes before any given performance, with Gil having the final say. That was the only number in the act at the time with shared leads, so these alternations are naturally more noticeable than changes made in strictly Diane-led numbers would be, but I'll bet plenty of variations were made routinely with all of the numbers in the act.

[blackguy69]

I wouldn’t say Mary lied but maybe didn’t know that Flo asked Diane to sing it.

[BigAl]

I wouldn’t say Mary lied but maybe didn’t know that Flo asked Diane to sing it.
With many if not most, tell-all books, the writer is often pressured by the publisher to play up some items and to play down others — in effect, to stretch the truth for greater bombast. I'm not saying that this is or isn't ethical. I'm sure Mary was aware of how events were playing out with that dumb song; she'd have had to be. She's admitted that she was strong-armed by the publisher to spice some things up‚ sometimes when she really didn't wish to. It was either that or have the project dropped. I'm not passing judgment on this either way. Just saying it happens.

[sup_fan]

Mary's version is similar [[although not as outlandish) to Tony Turner's. both book talk about this event. I'm wondering if tony "reminded" mary of this to include in her book as he was working for/with her at the time.

Also we don't know for certain that it was never performed at Copa 65. we only have a handful of evenings that were recorded. and given the changes in the set, they could have very well included it on other nights.

[RanRan79]

I wouldn’t say Mary lied but maybe didn’t know that Flo asked Diane to sing it.

I'm saying she lied because there's no evidence that Diana ever sang it until the Funny Girl album, long after Flo was gone and a good two years since it had last been in the act. As I said before, Mary [[or the woman who helped her write the book) added this to the book for effect, just like the anecdote about Flo's last Tonight Show appearance, and how Flo supposedly monopolized the interview. Fast forward to the footage making the rounds of the net and we all know that "monopolization" was a gross exaggeration. I loved [[still love) Mary's first book [[and second book) and at the time of first reading I took her storytelling for truth. She was there, I was not, who was I to question anything? So for years I thought it was messed up that Flo had a "solo" [[come to find out it wasn't a solo at all) and that it was taken away and given to Diana in mid 1965. Imagine my surprise when in the early 2000s I received a copy of the Orient video, made in September 1966, and there Flo is still singing "People", more than a year after Mary said it was taken from her and she never sang it again...and who is sharing the lead? Ms. Wilson herself. Story officially debunked. Not to mention that Gil Askey tells a completely different story about the song. I do believe Flo's cousin when he says that Flo was upset about having the song taken away. But I think he recalled Mary's version of events from her book and added it to his statement. There is no evidence that the song was taken from Florence and given to Diana. None that has surfaced thus far, anyway.

[marv2]

Mary's version is similar [[although not as outlandish) to Tony Turner's. both book talk about this event. I'm wondering if tony "reminded" mary of this to include in her book as he was working for/with her at the time.

Also we don't know for certain that it was never performed at Copa 65. we only have a handful of evenings that were recorded. and given the changes in the set, they could have very well included it on other nights.

Now that makes sense and is very plausible.

[RanRan79]

Mary's version is similar [[although not as outlandish) to Tony Turner's. both book talk about this event. I'm wondering if tony "reminded" mary of this to include in her book as he was working for/with her at the time.

Also we don't know for certain that it was never performed at Copa 65. we only have a handful of evenings that were recorded. and given the changes in the set, they could have very well included it on other nights.

Tony's book was a result of tidbits that had appeared elsewhere, including Mary's first book, and Tony being the comedic genius that he was, he was able to take those vague stories and turn them into exciting pages that included him being right there in the thick of things. I love his book. It's an excellent read. But if he expects me to believe all of those adults kicked it with him and let him be in the thick of everything, he's crazy.

As for the Copa, I thought all the nights were recorded because Gordy planned on the album and would want the best performances? It's possible that the song made it's way back into the Copa set that first gig, but as of yet there is no evidence of it.

[RanRan79]

I think there are so many other tunes they could have used and things that would have shown off Flo's vocal powers and range much better than this. I just don't think she's the best balladeer of the group. her forte was more towards a soulful sound

As I said before, I love their version of the song, but mostly because of their harmony. But I listened to the live Paris version today and I honestly think Diana was better suited for the song. When she takes the lead on that version she kills it. I think the problem with Florence and the song is that she's not a natural soprano and the way the song is arranged makes it ideal for a natural like Diana. Florence killed her part on "It Makes No Difference Now", and she did a beautiful job on "Silent Night" and "Oh Holy Night", both of which the arrangements seemed to be complimentary, so I think she was just as great at ballads as she was at anything else. "People" just may not have been the best overall fit for her. Flo really needed a number she could let loose on, and whoever decided to give her "Aint That Good News" knew what the hell they were doing.

[sup_fan]

I think they only recorded 3 or so nights. I don't have the Expanded Edition bootlet in front of me but I think it was 6 shows recorded, 2 each night. some songs appear [[in these 6 shows) only once - was it Tonight, Enjoy Yourself and maybe I Am Woman? or maybe Ipanema. anyway it mentions that the lineup of the show was changing throughout. So who knows if People was in during another night.

[George Solomon]

George - have there been any other song discoveries that you're aware of in the live shows? like Let There Be Love that was a wonderful surprise in the Roosertail set. where there other pieces that made brief appearances in their set?
I wish I could say there were. Having "My Favorite Things" recorded at the Copa 67 was certainly something different but we haven't found any live recordings of the hits that were in and out of the act quickly. At the end of the Roostertail 66 show that we used on the Symphony expanded the girls come back for another encore but much to our frustration the tape ran out as they got back to the stage! It was our fantasy that they sang "Love Is Like An Itching In My Heart." The 1967 Roostertail show with Cindy is nearly identical to the Talk Of The Town LP [[minus In And Out Of Love). I'm really enjoying the 67 Copa show from the upcoming Sing HDH expanded [[release date TBA) We used the late show since it was the very last official recording of the original group, plus it was a little more varied than show one and they seemed to be having a little more fun. Another plus was the bootleg that circulated for so many years has performances from the early show, making this fresh new mix of show two a little more different.

[marv2]

I wish I could say there were. Having "My Favorite Things" recorded at the Copa 67 was certainly something different but we haven't found any live recordings of the hits that were in and out of the act quickly. At the end of the Roostertail 66 show that we used on the Symphony expanded the girls come back for another encore but much to our frustration the tape ran out as they got back to the stage! It was our fantasy that they sang "Love Is Like An Itching In My Heart." The 1967 Roostertail show with Cindy is nearly identical to the Talk Of The Town LP [[minus In And Out Of Love). I'm really enjoying the 67 Copa show from the upcoming Sing HDH expanded [[release date TBA) We used the late show since it was the very last official recording of the original group, plus it was a little more varied than show one and they seemed to be having a little more fun. Another plus was the bootleg that circulated for so many years has performances from the early show, making this fresh new mix of show two a little more different.

Overall, how did their last show sound? I am referring to the vocals.

[George Solomon]

Anyone who's heard the bootleg knows the vocals are a little hoarse. We know Diana had a cold. But after we did the new mix they came out much better than I expected. For a few that have heard snippets they really couldn't tell a difference in vocals from other live shows. Overall sound is really good and it's nice to finally have a clean stereo mix of this show.

[marv2]

Anyone who's heard the bootleg knows the vocals are a little hoarse. We know Diana had a cold. But after we did the new mix they came out much better than I expected. For a few that have heard snippets they really couldn't tell a difference in vocals from other live shows. Overall sound is really good and it's nice to finally have a clean stereo mix of this show.

Thank you George. Very much appreciated.

[sup_fan]

that's great!! the bootlegs I've had and heard are both a little hoarse and a bit high, not quite like playing a 33 on the 45 RPM setting but sort of like that. makes Diana sound even more like Minnie mouse lol ;)

I'd forgotten about My Fav Things!! with the MJC lineup, I remember hearing a story from Randy that at one of their later Frontier performances they were testing out Day By Day from Godspell but that it wasn't really working. don't know what wasn't working - arrangement, audience reception or what.

With Talk of Town I know they cut Unchained melody from the opening medley and then some of the comedy routine from You're Nobody. are there other songs that were cut? guessing they did Queen but didn't include on lp.

[George Solomon]

that's great!! the bootlegs I've had and heard are both a little hoarse and a bit high, not quite like playing a 33 on the 45 RPM setting but sort of like that. makes Diana sound even more like Minnie mouse lol ;)

I'd forgotten about My Fav Things!! with the MJC lineup, I remember hearing a story from Randy that at one of their later Frontier performances they were testing out Day By Day from Godspell but that it wasn't really working. don't know what wasn't working - arrangement, audience reception or what.

With Talk of Town I know they cut Unchained melody from the opening medley and then some of the comedy routine from You're Nobody. are there other songs that were cut? guessing they did Queen but didn't include on lp.
Yes, Queen, Somewhere And Sam Cooke Medley.
One correction to my above comment. When I say "we" did a new mix I mean when KEVIN REEVES did a new mix. He works really hard to make everything sound the best it can.

[marv2]

that's great!! the bootlegs I've had and heard are both a little hoarse and a bit high, not quite like playing a 33 on the 45 RPM setting but sort of like that. makes Diana sound even more like Minnie mouse lol ;)

I'd forgotten about My Fav Things!! with the MJC lineup, I remember hearing a story from Randy that at one of their later Frontier performances they were testing out Day By Day from Godspell but that it wasn't really working. don't know what wasn't working - arrangement, audience reception or what.

With Talk of Town I know they cut Unchained melody from the opening medley and then some of the comedy routine from You're Nobody. are there other songs that were cut? guessing they did Queen but didn't include on lp.

They did "Queen of the House" all the way up to the last performance at the Farewell Concert at the Frontier, along with "Hey Big Spender".

[bradsupremes]

"Day By Day" was performed at that Frontier show. I would love to know what else they performed in that engagement.

Didn't Mary do "I Keep It Hid" for a brief time before it was taken out due to poor reception?

[daviddh]

I like the Talk Of The Town show best even though it seems rushed and songs such as Love Is Here shortened by a verse,...and others as well
whose idea was it to have them speed up the songs and cut verses out

[daviddh]

The whole "People" saga is funny to me and I think it might have been discussed before. I've never seen this number as the Florence show stopper so many claimed it to be. It was a group number in which they all sang together with Florence on melody. From the very beginning Diana took that part close to the end "with one person ..." and later it became Mary's solo as well [[as we heard at the Roostertail and in the Orient). To me that was the most featured spot in the number. Gil told me the number was in and out quite a bit when FLORENCE requested they take it out whenever she wasn't feeling up to it. It seems that it was dropped for good in 1967. I loved Florence and wish she had sung more. It would have been great if she had "Ain't That Good News" in the Sam Cooke medley. I think others might see this differently and many people can tell a different story. It seems they were hesitant to give her too much not knowing how much they could rely on her. I am not blaming her for this but Gil said she was "under the weather" more than Mary and Diana and I think that isn't news to anyone. In my opinion "People" wasn't a great addition to the act. I found the harmony and arrangement a bit clumsy. And remember "People" and "I Am Woman" were in the act even before they got their new show for the Copa in 65. I can understand why they'd retire it. They also lost other numbers from the 65 Copa show along the way. I apologize if I veered off the original topic. I was enjoying this discussion of their live shows.
thanks George for clarifying this and being the voice of reason. i'll just say some like to keep the drama going

[marybrewster]

Speaking of the "sweet soft ballad from "West Side Story".....

I think there's evidence that three songs were used with this as the introduction: "Back in My Arms Again", "The Happening", and "You Keep Me Hanging On". Do we know if there were any others? And just for fun, do you suppose Diana knew from show to show what Gil would be playing? Maybe some nights it would be one; other nights it would be another?

Lastly, was "Back in My Arms Again" ever performed again after the Hollywood Bowl? I'd imagine it was cut very shortly after but how long after is the question.

And speaking of, for those that have heard that HB performance, do you think "Back" was performed by mistake? Like, no one thought to take it out with Flo not being there? Diana of course mentions "Mary" but I can't decide if her "oh no" instead of "Flo" was scripted, or off the cuff in the moment.

[sup_fan]

"Day By Day" was performed at that Frontier show. I would love to know what else they performed in that engagement.

Didn't Mary do "I Keep It Hid" for a brief time before it was taken out due to poor reception?


wow - hadn't heard that. too bad if it was removed. that's one of my biggest complaints [[especially about the 70s lineups). that they didn't do enough of their lp material

[sup_fan]

Speaking of the "sweet soft ballad from "West Side Story".....

I think there's evidence that three songs were used with this as the introduction: "Back in My Arms Again", "The Happening", and "You Keep Me Hanging On". Do we know if there were any others? And just for fun, do you suppose Diana knew from show to show what Gil would be playing? Maybe some nights it would be one; other nights it would be another?

Lastly, was "Back in My Arms Again" ever performed again after the Hollywood Bowl? I'd imagine it was cut very shortly after but how long after is the question.

And speaking of, for those that have heard that HB performance, do you think "Back" was performed by mistake? Like, no one thought to take it out with Flo not being there? Diana of course mentions "Mary" but I can't decide if her "oh no" instead of "Flo" was scripted, or off the cuff in the moment.

wasn't the decision made to use Cindy for HB only a day or two prior? from what I remember it was a pretty quick decision and therefore might not have been enough time to swap out the songs. The Happening was the latest single and so it would have had more of a prominent place rather than the "sweet West Side Story ballad." I don't think they ever did YCHL in this spot as the intro isn't loud or big enough.

I do think the HB show is a pretty good one [[of course fast forward through Berry's speech and all the talking lol). Cindy is quite prominent in the backgrounds which is a nice change from the other DRATS live performances. also a good song lineup

[midnightman]

The whole "People" saga is funny to me and I think it might have been discussed before. I've never seen this number as the Florence show stopper so many claimed it to be. It was a group number in which they all sang together with Florence on melody. From the very beginning Diana took that part close to the end "with one person ..." and later it became Mary's solo as well [[as we heard at the Roostertail and in the Orient). To me that was the most featured spot in the number. Gil told me the number was in and out quite a bit when FLORENCE requested they take it out whenever she wasn't feeling up to it. It seems that it was dropped for good in 1967. I loved Florence and wish she had sung more. It would have been great if she had "Ain't That Good News" in the Sam Cooke medley. I think others might see this differently and many people can tell a different story. It seems they were hesitant to give her too much not knowing how much they could rely on her. I am not blaming her for this but Gil said she was "under the weather" more than Mary and Diana and I think that isn't news to anyone. In my opinion "People" wasn't a great addition to the act. I found the harmony and arrangement a bit clumsy. And remember "People" and "I Am Woman" were in the act even before they got their new show for the Copa in 65. I can understand why they'd retire it. They also lost other numbers from the 65 Copa show along the way. I apologize if I veered off the original topic. I was enjoying this discussion of their live shows.

Okay, that is interesting info. And it's interesting Gil told you that. Definitely makes that People "change" more of a myth than anything. The Supremes never did sing "People" again after Flo left so that definitely confirms Gil's story that Flo told them to retire it. Only reason why folks believe it was shipped from Flo to Diana is because the group themselves re-recorded it for the "Funny Girl" album.

And also like was mentioned, the clip of Mary singing Diana's part in "People" when they did their Orient tour is key that the song was never switched over to Diana [[because if the timeline was correct, Motown would've gave Diana the FULL song by the time they were at the Orient; and besides from one studio recording, she never did sing it live by herself).

Which is funny because Motown wanted to make Diana their Barbra Streisand and she didn't even care to sing that song [[or any of Barbra's songs) lmao

So much for that "story".

[floyjoy678]

People and I Am Woman came into the act before the Dick Clark tour in the summer of '64. It's said it was Flo's idea to incorporate them and have her and Diana split the lead. In turn Diana ended up pushing for Mary to take that spot in the song in '66. I'm assuming the song was dropped when Flo came back into the group briefly before being permanently fired since at that point her fate was up in the air.

I gotta agree with you ranran I much prefer "People" over "Somewhere". Even the recorded version that everyone whines about being too long. That line Flo does at the end "people who need people" after Diana's spot, is probably my favorite Flo moment.

[BigAl]

Between the time I saw them in late August 1966 and early March 1967 the number was dropped. I don't know the exact chronology of when Flo was suspended and then reinstated on probation, but I believe that might have been after March of that year.

[sup_fan]

People and I Am Woman came into the act before the Dick Clark tour in the summer of '64. It's said it was Flo's idea to incorporate them and have her and Diana split the lead. In turn Diana ended up pushing for Mary to take that spot in the song in '66. I'm assuming the song was dropped when Flo came back into the group briefly before being permanently fired since at that point her fate was up in the air.

I gotta agree with you ranran I much prefer "People" over "Somewhere". Even the recorded version that everyone whines about being too long. That line Flo does at the end "people who need people" after Diana's spot, is probably my favorite Flo moment.

many of the productions on There's A Place For Us are subpar IMO. but that was an early attempt to produce this type of music on the Sups and so it's a bit of trial and error. The horn intro on Put On Happy Face are way too prominent and shrill. Both People and Somewhere are way too slow - like a death dirge. I also think some of the Symphony tracks are weaker too. It was obvious by the time of R&H and Broadway to Hollywood that the production teams had really grown and their sound was so much better

I have to disagree though about People vs Somewhere. if I had to vote on one, I'd pick Somewhere. I just like the song better. I do think that it would have been better to split up the bridge and give one full line to mary solo [[We'll find a new way of living) and then Flo do "We'll find a ..." then the trio back on Somewhere.

I think a lot of their non hits would have benefited from more group interaction, especially the live numbers.

[midnightman]

I never really cared for the original Supremes' attempts at standards. They weren't as good with it as, say, Marvin.

I think over time Diana got better at standards POST-Supremes than when she was with them.

Like mentioned, I wished Flo had done Good News live. I loved their version of Shake but imagine Good News live. :)

[daviddh]

i do like the version of People , thought the harmony was great . to bad this Orient show is not on dvd.....geez.

[sup_fan]

I never really cared for the original Supremes' attempts at standards. They weren't as good with it as, say, Marvin.

I think over time Diana got better at standards POST-Supremes than when she was with them.

Like mentioned, I wished Flo had done Good News live. I loved their version of Shake but imagine Good News live. :)

oh I disagree - although there absolutely are some stars and stinkers in their standards work. Diana had a theatricality in her voice and styling that was perfect for this work. and I think has more range. listening to her work on Sings Rodgers & Hart demonstrates this perfectly. from My Funny Valentine to Mountain Greenery to Little Girl Blue. And even some of their earlier work is quite fine. although some of the tracks are less desirable, much of CW&P holds up. Funny How Time Slips Away is great. both this and the Sam Cooke set are great but they don't show their range as much. especially with Sam. it was a rush job [[although the results are still nice). but if they'd taken a bit more time with it and allowed her to experiment more with her vocal stylings, it would have been marvelous.

Marvin was more of a romantic crooner. I don't think he can pull off the showtune comedy as well. a romantic ballad - wonderful. Imagine Marvin trying to do mame? or second hand rose? I realize those might be more "girls" songs but still

[midnightman]

I guess I have to hear more. I DO love their version of "Somewhere" though!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x84LJjZhKSs

[floyjoy678]

I thought the original group did the standards the best. Their harmony and blend was absolutely amazing. I really wish we could have heard the original group perform that fats waller medley, that would have been phenomenal. [[Although I can see poor Flo having a hard time keeping up with all that choreography for the number lol)

[Circa 1824]

I thought the original group did the standards the best. Their harmony and blend was absolutely amazing. I really wish we could have heard the original group perform that fats waller medley, that would have been phenomenal. [[Although I can see poor Flo having a hard time keeping up with all that choreography for the number lol)

Flo struggled throughout her stint with the group. She did not have what it took to be part of a very very hard-working superstar act. That is why she was replaced. Ms. Birdsong proved very successful in handling the big job of superstar demands and expectations.

Flo also had nowhere near the voice of Jennifer Holliday or Jennifer Hudson. That is what made Dreamgirls truly fictional.

[midnightman]

Not to mention Florence was probably bipolar. That means she had mood swings a lot of times so Mary and Diana [[and Berry) didn't know which Flo would show up. Even Mary and her cousin admitted that whatever happened to Flo being ousted from the Supremes was all on her. I love Flo to death but let's call it what it is.

And this thread wasn't even about Flo.

[marv2]

Not to mention Florence was probably bipolar. That means she had mood swings a lot of times so Mary and Diana [[and Berry) didn't know which Flo would show up. Even Mary and her cousin admitted that whatever happened to Flo being ousted from the Supremes was all on her. I love Flo to death but let's call it what it is.

And this thread wasn't even about Flo.

Yeah that's what they said............in front of the cameras. This is closer to the truth:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQ4HZiroMxM

[vgalindo]

Yeah that's what they said............in front of the cameras. This is closer to the truth:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQ4HZiroMxM
Marv who is this lady. Is this you??? Lol

[Roberta75]

Marv who is this lady. Is this you??? Lol

She gives the same spin and "alternative facts" as him. Hehehehehehehehe

[vgalindo]

She gives the same spin and "alternative facts" as him. Hehehehehehehehe
So true Roberta. This is so funny it makes me laugh!!

[daviddh]

thinking out loud
think it was strange that Talk Of The Town was released in 8-68
and TCB 12-68, with almost the same Supremes songs on it. I would think for TCB they would have done something new / updated.

[Roberta75]

So true Roberta. This is so funny it makes me laugh!!

Id be embarrassed to post the insane ramblings of that woman in the video. Shes about as honest and factual as the person who shared her off video. LOL

[midnightman]

thinking out loud
think it was strange that Talk Of The Town was released in 8-68
and TCB 12-68, with almost the same Supremes songs on it. I would think for TCB they would have done something new / updated.

Okay, that is interesting. I wonder if Motown had pushed them too far that they couldn't change the set list and try something new?

[blackguy69]

thinking out loud
think it was strange that Talk Of The Town was released in 8-68
and TCB 12-68, with almost the same Supremes songs on it. I would think for TCB they would have done something new / updated.

Let me ask what were you expecting for them to do differently

[reese]

thinking out loud
think it was strange that Talk Of The Town was released in 8-68
and TCB 12-68, with almost the same Supremes songs on it. I would think for TCB they would have done something new / updated.

I don't think the Supremes' act changed all that much during the 60s. Besides the hits, it seems as if songs like QUEEN OF THE HOUSE, SOMEWHERE, and YOU'RE NOBODY 'TIL SOMEBODY LOVES YOU remained in the act for years.

Considering that TCB was basicially a concert special, it is not surprising that they used what they already had. But they did do a few new things, the medley with the Tempts for one. Diana's AFRO VOGUE was another new addition, and they also performed WHEN THE LOVELIGHT STARTS SHINING THROUGH HIS EYES as well, even though it was cut from the show.

[midnightman]

Diana's Afro Vogue...

Can I just say that that was one of the greatest TV performances of all time?!

I need to look at that performance again.

[daviddh]

Let me ask what were you expecting for them to do differently
with the new FUNNY GIRL lp I would think they would have used the medley that was cut, or even songs from REFLECTIONS lp.......LOVE CHILD was a hit by the time it was aired.

[sup_fan]

Problem is the special was taped in August. So Love Child Cloud 9 and I’m Gonna Make You Love Me hadn’t been released.

This was a period where Motown was flooding the market w Sups material. Talk of Town, Funny Girl, Love Child, TCB and Join the Temptations were all released within a four month period. Frankly it was too many and none of them were “masterpieces.” Of course as a devoted fan I love them but I think ultimately this hurt their musical legacy a bit. Too many people tend to overlook these groups due to the labels tendency to just focus on making money.

[midnightman]

Yeah, Motown was in panic mode in 1967-68 if I recall.

After HDH left, the Supremes and Four Tops had to settle for songs by lesser known writers and did covers.

That just left an opening for the Temptations to get a chunk of the fan bases of both groups, which I imagine is one reason why Motown had the Supremes doing projects with the Temptations [[besides the fact Motown wanted the Tempts to get a bigger white base) because the Supremes without HDH were suffering a little while the Tempts were getting hotter.