70s Supremes and Stevie

[longtimefan]

Recently, there have been posted two unreleased 70s Supremes tracks produced by Stevie.

Of course we have had “Bad Weather” as a release.

Question: Are there any other 70s Supremes released tracks that are associated with Stevie in any way? I know there are none produced by him like “Bad Weather,” but are there any that he WROTE, RECORDED HIMSELF, or otherwise contributed to? Thanks.

[BayouMotownMan]

I was told he did some tracks on Diana Ross in the early 70s, but maybe George or Andy can verify

[marv2]

Recently, there have been posted two unreleased 70s Supremes tracks produced by Stevie.

Of course we have had “Bad Weather” as a release.

Question: Are there any other 70s Supremes released tracks that are associated with Stevie in any way? I know there are none produced by him like “Bad Weather,” but are there any that he WROTE, RECORDED HIMSELF, or otherwise contributed to? Thanks.

Several of the songs/tracks Stevie wrote for the Supremes ended up on Syreeta Wright's album "Stevie Wonder Presents: Syreeta" that was released in 1974. None of the tracks originally intended for the Supremes went to Diana Ross. She complained for years that he would not write anything for her until he gave in and wrote "Force Behind the Power" in 1991.

[RanRan79]

I was told he did some tracks on Diana Ross in the early 70s, but maybe George or Andy can verify

I hope this is true. That would certainly be something to look forward to.

[RanRan79]

I've never heard Diana Ross complain about Stevie refusing to write songs for her. Where did this come from?

[marv2]

I've never heard Diana Ross complain about Stevie refusing to write songs for her. Where did this come from?

It came from her interview on the Arsenio Hall Show in 1991. She said that shit and I am tired of having to do this!

[blackguy69]

I can’t believe I’m saying this but marv is actually right [[but not in the flare Marv is stating) the video is on YouTube but I didn’t anything about Stevie refusing to write for her. She does states she’s been waiting for Stevie to write a song for her since he was a kid

[RanRan79]

It came from her interview on the Arsenio Hall Show in 1991. She said that shit and I am tired of having to do this!

If you're sick of having to source your statements then shut the fuck up. Any time I say something in this forum about Diana Ross, Flo Ballard or Mary Wilson, or any other Supreme, or Berry Gordy, or anyone associated with Motown, I can back that shit up with a source or willingly admit that I can't back it up. But if it's something I can source I would never have a problem sourcing it. You said it came from the Arsenio show. How fucking hard was that? I asked for a source and you provided one. Of course I'm going to call bullshit on your assessment of the source as she didn't say he "wouldn't" write anything for her nor did it sound like a complaint. Who really thinks Diana Ross has been begging anybody to do anything since they were 14 years old? And who believes that if at any point Berry Gordy really wanted Stevie to write a song for Diana Ross since he was 14 that said song would never have been written and recorded? But all of that is what it is. The important thing is that I asked for a source and you provided one. You and I have been playing nice here lately, why was it necessary to be so nasty?

[RanRan79]

I can’t believe I’m saying this but marv is actually right [[but not in the flare Marv is stating) the video is on YouTube but I didn’t anything about Stevie refusing to write for her. She does states she’s been waiting for Stevie to write a song for her since he was a kid

He was wrong. Your assessment of what was actually said is more on point, but I thank you for adding information to the answer of my question. Did you find it a difficult thing to do, like some people?:p

[blackguy69]

The way some act on here it isn’t a shock. He isn’t the only on here that lives in his own world

[BigAl]

I'm almost ashamed to admit it, but I've had to chuckle over the way this seemingly innocuous thread devolved so quickly into petty sniping. Life at SDF, folks!

[RanRan79]

I'm almost ashamed to admit it, but I've had to chuckle over the way this seemingly innocuous thread devolved so quickly into petty sniping. Life at SDF, folks!

I'm ashamed to be a party to it, but some of the stuff that goes on around here is too much. This could've been avoided if Marv had decided to grab his Thinking Cap before coming to forum.;)

[TomatoTom123]

One word... LOL

or is that three? :p

[midnightman]

LOL

Did anyone interview Marvin back in the day and ask him if he refused Stevie songs? :)

People just love to throw shade at Miss Diana. :o

[RanRan79]

LOL

Did anyone interview Marvin back in the day and ask him if he refused Stevie songs? :)

People just love to throw shade at Miss Diana. :o

She's winning right now and they hate it. Besides, didn't you hear what happened when Stevie found out that Diana had recorded "Too Shy to Say"? Oh word on the street is that he set it off at Motown. Nobody knew Stevie could fuck shit up like that, him being blind and all. But apparently his rage in wake of Diana Ross having the audacity to touch a Stevie composition was so great that he seemingly had eye sight for a good 15 to 20 minutes at Motown HQ, long enough to do 2.5 million dollars worth of damage to various Diana related merch and music. In fact that's the real reason the Ross 78 album was such a messed up track list. Some of the original cuts for the album were destroyed by Stevie, such is his hate for her voice.

[Bluebrock]

If you're sick of having to source your statements then shut the fuck up. Any time I say something in this forum about Diana Ross, Flo Ballard or Mary Wilson, or any other Supreme, or Berry Gordy, or anyone associated with Motown, I can back that shit up with a source or willingly admit that I can't back it up. But if it's something I can source I would never have a problem sourcing it. You said it came from the Arsenio show. How fucking hard was that? I asked for a source and you provided one. Of course I'm going to call bullshit on your assessment of the source as she didn't say he "wouldn't" write anything for her nor did it sound like a complaint. Who really thinks Diana Ross has been begging anybody to do anything since they were 14 years old? And who believes that if at any point Berry Gordy really wanted Stevie to write a song for Diana Ross since he was 14 that said song would never have been written and recorded? But all of that is what it is. The important thing is that I asked for a source and you provided one. You and I have been playing nice here lately, why was it necessary to be so nasty?
Just ignore him RanRan.Most people do so on this forum these days. It is in his dna to be nasty and unpleasant unless it is about his beloved Mary Wilson. I am sure if that woman broke wind on record he would claim it to be tuneful and melodic, but it is his blinkered hatred of Diana Ross that shows him in his true colours. Diana is going through an Indian Summer in her career and this individual just cannot handle the fact. Sadly for him it is likely to get a whole lot worse for him with regard to the renewed interest in Diana's career. I cannot wait for the fall out from a forthcoming announcement..... he he he.

[PeaceNHarmony]

Just ignore him RanRan.Most people do so on this forum these days. It is in his dna to be nasty and unpleasant unless it is about his beloved Mary Wilson. I am sure if that woman broke wind on record he would claim it to be tuneful and melodic, but it is his blinkered hatred of Diana Ross that shows him in his true colours. Diana is going through an Indian Summer in her career and this individual just cannot handle the fact. Sadly for him it is likely to get a whole lot worse for him with regard to the renewed interest in Diana's career. I cannot wait for the fall out from a forthcoming announcement..... he he he.
... not to mention bottling the scent and selling 'Wind 'o Wilson' at Walmart ... AND! Your clues about an 'announcement' are EVERYTHING! I just can't wait!

[midnightman]

She's winning right now and they hate it. Besides, didn't you hear what happened when Stevie found out that Diana had recorded "Too Shy to Say"? Oh word on the street is that he set it off at Motown. Nobody knew Stevie could fuck shit up like that, him being blind and all. But apparently his rage in wake of Diana Ross having the audacity to touch a Stevie composition was so great that he seemingly had eye sight for a good 15 to 20 minutes at Motown HQ, long enough to do 2.5 million dollars worth of damage to various Diana related merch and music. In fact that's the real reason the Ross 78 album was such a messed up track list. Some of the original cuts for the album were destroyed by Stevie, such is his hate for her voice.

LMFAO!!!
Great post! :D

[sup_fan]

LMFAO!!!
Great post! :D

actually I heard that, in an act of vengeance for poor Flo's plight, Tony Turner disguised himself in drag as a member of High Inergy and snuck into the Motown vaults to trash and destroy the hot new Diana Ross tracks for Ross 78. he also doodled a mustache on the proposed back cover art, hence the uninspired design of repeating the front art.

As he was finishing up, Suzanne DePasse spotted him/her and, thinking it was Vernessa Mitchell, rushed him/her into Studio A as they were late for a recording session. the tracks revealed a whole new dimension to the group and was slated as a follow up lp to their Turnin On debut.

Worried that his plot would be discovered, Miss Turner/Mitchell snuck out of the studio during a break and tried to escape. But ran into Rick James and the Stone City Band, who had recently just signed. He/she was easily able to blend into the pack of whores that typically hung around the group and slipped out into their waiting limo

The next morning, bow legged and exhausted, Miss Tonita turner returned home, comfortable in the knowledge that she single handedly redeemed the memory of her wonderful Miss Flo.

And as we know, the glorious Tonita eventually landed herself a coveted royal title in Spain as Baroness where she channeled Tracy Chambers to become the toast of the crowned heads of europe

of course all of this will be confirmed in the Ross 78 Expanded Edition and the upcoming High Inergy Lost & Found release :D

[midnightman]

LOL @ "Miss Tonita"... gurl I know Miss Thang is probably lurking here. ;)

[sup_fan]

LOL @ "Miss Tonita"... gurl I know Miss Thang is probably lurking here. ;)

well she can throw mud at me in her next "tell all" book ;)

[alanh]

She's winning right now and they hate it. Besides, didn't you hear what happened when Stevie found out that Diana had recorded "Too Shy to Say"? Oh word on the street is that he set it off at Motown. Nobody knew Stevie could fuck shit up like that, him being blind and all. But apparently his rage in wake of Diana Ross having the audacity to touch a Stevie composition was so great that he seemingly had eye sight for a good 15 to 20 minutes at Motown HQ, long enough to do 2.5 million dollars worth of damage to various Diana related merch and music. In fact that's the real reason the Ross 78 album was such a messed up track list. Some of the original cuts for the album were destroyed by Stevie, such is his hate for her voice.

RanRan, no bad language or cursing! Express your views by all means, but no swearing please.

[RanRan79]

Just ignore him RanRan.Most people do so on this forum these days. It is in his dna to be nasty and unpleasant unless it is about his beloved Mary Wilson. I am sure if that woman broke wind on record he would claim it to be tuneful and melodic, but it is his blinkered hatred of Diana Ross that shows him in his true colours. Diana is going through an Indian Summer in her career and this individual just cannot handle the fact. Sadly for him it is likely to get a whole lot worse for him with regard to the renewed interest in Diana's career. I cannot wait for the fall out from a forthcoming announcement..... he he he.

I'm well aware of what Marv's negative contributions to the forum are, even back in my "lurking" days. However, when he's not in crazy mode about Diana Ross and Mary Wilson [[his hatred for one, his love for the other, though I'm not always sure if he actually hates one because he loves the other, or if he loves one because he hates the other) he does contribute positively to the forum, so I choose to say what I need to when he crosses a line and let it be what it is. His devotion to all things Mary Wilson and his hatred of all things Diana Ross can alter a thread, but unfortunately there are a couple of people here whose worship of all things Diana Ross and their hatred of Mary Wilson often alters an otherwise good thread too. And then on top of that, some of those screennames never have anything worthwhile to contribute. At least Marv does provide some actual facts [[that can be sourced and backed up) at times.

[RanRan79]

LMFAO!!!
Great post! :D

Hey, I'm just reporting the facts.:cool:

[RanRan79]

actually I heard that, in an act of vengeance for poor Flo's plight, Tony Turner disguised himself in drag as a member of High Inergy and snuck into the Motown vaults to trash and destroy the hot new Diana Ross tracks for Ross 78. he also doodled a mustache on the proposed back cover art, hence the uninspired design of repeating the front art.

As he was finishing up, Suzanne DePasse spotted him/her and, thinking it was Vernessa Mitchell, rushed him/her into Studio A as they were late for a recording session. the tracks revealed a whole new dimension to the group and was slated as a follow up lp to their Turnin On debut.

Worried that his plot would be discovered, Miss Turner/Mitchell snuck out of the studio during a break and tried to escape. But ran into Rick James and the Stone City Band, who had recently just signed. He/she was easily able to blend into the pack of whores that typically hung around the group and slipped out into their waiting limo

The next morning, bow legged and exhausted, Miss Tonita turner returned home, comfortable in the knowledge that she single handedly redeemed the memory of her wonderful Miss Flo.

And as we know, the glorious Tonita eventually landed herself a coveted royal title in Spain as Baroness where she channeled Tracy Chambers to become the toast of the crowned heads of europe

of course all of this will be confirmed in the Ross 78 Expanded Edition and the upcoming High Inergy Lost & Found release :D

Not bowlegged and exhausted!!! LMAO

[RanRan79]

RanRan, no bad language or cursing! Express your views by all means, but no swearing please.

No cursing? What kind of forum is this?;)

I do keep my cursing to a minimum here. I should be allowed at least one day to get out of hand.

[blackguy69]

I'm well aware of what Marv's negative contributions to the forum are, even back in my "lurking" days. However, when he's not in crazy mode about Diana Ross and Mary Wilson [[his hatred for one, his love for the other, though I'm not always sure if he actually hates one because he loves the other, or if he loves one because he hates the other) he does contribute positively to the forum, so I choose to say what I need to when he crosses a line and let it be what it is. His devotion to all things Mary Wilson and his hatred of all things Diana Ross can alter a thread, but unfortunately there are a couple of people here whose worship of all things Diana Ross and their hatred of Mary Wilson often alters an otherwise good thread too. And then on top of that, some of those screennames never have anything worthwhile to contribute. At least Marv does provide some actual facts [[that can be sourced and backed up) at times.Ran I couldn’t have said it better myself 👍

[Roberta75]

Just ignore him RanRan.Most people do so on this forum these days. It is in his dna to be nasty and unpleasant unless it is about his beloved Mary Wilson. I am sure if that woman broke wind on record he would claim it to be tuneful and melodic, but it is his blinkered hatred of Diana Ross that shows him in his true colours. Diana is going through an Indian Summer in her career and this individual just cannot handle the fact. Sadly for him it is likely to get a whole lot worse for him with regard to the renewed interest in Diana's career. I cannot wait for the fall out from a forthcoming announcement..... he he he.

:D:cool: Well stated my smart friend.

[Roberta75]

I'm well aware of what Marv's negative contributions to the forum are, even back in my "lurking" days. However, when he's not in crazy mode about Diana Ross and Mary Wilson [[his hatred for one, his love for the other, though I'm not always sure if he actually hates one because he loves the other, or if he loves one because he hates the other) he does contribute positively to the forum, so I choose to say what I need to when he crosses a line and let it be what it is. His devotion to all things Mary Wilson and his hatred of all things Diana Ross can alter a thread, but unfortunately there are a couple of people here whose worship of all things Diana Ross and their hatred of Mary Wilson often alters an otherwise good thread too. And then on top of that, some of those screennames never have anything worthwhile to contribute. At least Marv does provide some actual facts [[that can be sourced and backed up) at times.

I never understood this hating one Supreme and loving another. I love all of them . As for the said persons "devotion" to Mary its real questionable imo. I think hes seen Mary in concert about 3 times ion the past 10 years and shes played NY area and Connecticut and DC and Detroit and many many other places on the esat coast. That ones always stating "I'm gonna try and go" but never makes it LOL.

[TheMotownManiac]

It came from her interview on the Arsenio Hall Show in 1991. She said that shit and I am tired of having to do this!
Actually, Marv, that’s not what she said at all. She complained that he was too busy on Spike Lee’s film deadline to return to The US to work with her in person to produce the track, so they did it over the phone which was not to her liking.

She never said anything of the like “Stevie refuses........” or didn’t want to. Just that their deadlines were overlapping. I have it on tape. But you are correct in that she was squawking. Personally, I’m not all that thrilled with the song he did write for her.

anyway, it’s in YouTube for all to see. And I Think the reason why you are “tired of having to do this” is because you are often inaccurate when you are stating facts… As in this case. You are a wonderful addition to this group, but you do get carried away with certain topics to the point where what you are saying is either misleading or completely false…… And that’s why people are questioning you. I believe your heart is in the right place, and we are all passionate about the music we love her we wouldn’t be here, but it might be a good idea just to check for veracity before you hit send on matters of ross and Wilson just to make sure it’s not one of those times when you got a little carried away. LOL!!!!!

[midnightman]

I love all the Supremes too. No time for hate.

I still think Stevie & Diana should do a record together lol but I think Diana is basically retired from the recording business and has been for some time.

[TomatoTom123]

No cursing? What kind of forum is this?;)

I do keep my cursing to a minimum here. I should be allowed at least one day to get out of hand.

Yea RanRan stop fuckin swearin :p

[jobeterob]

I never understood this hating one Supreme and loving another. I love all of them . As for the said persons "devotion" to Mary its real questionable imo. I think hes seen Mary in concert about 3 times ion the past 10 years and shes played NY area and Connecticut and DC and Detroit and many many other places on the esat coast. That ones always stating "I'm gonna try and go" but never makes it LOL.

Broke! The likely reason Diana had him fired

[PeaceNHarmony]

I never understood this hating one Supreme and loving another. I love all of them . As for the said persons "devotion" to Mary its real questionable imo. I think hes seen Mary in concert about 3 times ion the past 10 years and shes played NY area and Connecticut and DC and Detroit and many many other places on the esat coast. That ones always stating "I'm gonna try and go" but never makes it LOL.
I don't love them all but I wish the best for them. I admit I like some more than others. The Mary 'fans' are mostly internet trolls who make believe they 'love' her as a dig to Diana, of whom they are phychotically jealous.

[PeaceNHarmony]

Broke! The likely reason Diana had him fired
Financially broke I can have sympathy for; morally broke? Not-sa-much.

[midnightman]

I don't love them all but I wish the best for them. I admit I like some more than others. The Mary 'fans' are mostly internet trolls who make believe they 'love' her as a dig to Diana, of whom they are phychotically jealous.

I doubt the love they claim they have for Mary is authentic anyway.

[JohnnyB]

She's winning right now and they hate it. Besides, didn't you hear what happened when Stevie found out that Diana had recorded "Too Shy to Say"? Oh word on the street is that he set it off at Motown. Nobody knew Stevie could fuck shit up like that, him being blind and all. But apparently his rage in wake of Diana Ross having the audacity to touch a Stevie composition was so great that he seemingly had eye sight for a good 15 to 20 minutes at Motown HQ, long enough to do 2.5 million dollars worth of damage to various Diana related merch and music. In fact that's the real reason the Ross 78 album was such a messed up track list. Some of the original cuts for the album were destroyed by Stevie, such is his hate for her voice.

Good one, RanRan79!! Laughing out loud...

[RanRan79]

I never understood this hating one Supreme and loving another. I love all of them . As for the said persons "devotion" to Mary its real questionable imo. I think hes seen Mary in concert about 3 times ion the past 10 years and shes played NY area and Connecticut and DC and Detroit and many many other places on the esat coast. That ones always stating "I'm gonna try and go" but never makes it LOL.

I love all of the Supremes for the contributions they've made to my favorite group. Three of them are on my list of all time favorite vocalists ever [[Diana, Flo and Jean). I could never see myself hating any of them when I've never met any of them. That's why the hate for Mary and Diana is so weird to me. I get that the two women have issues with each other, that's life. But what kind of sick freaks take on these battles on their behalf? And Marv aint the only one. If he were, this wouldn't be so scary. But these people are actually walking around with us on the streets. They can't be mentally healthy.

[RanRan79]

I love all the Supremes too. No time for hate.

I still think Stevie & Diana should do a record together lol but I think Diana is basically retired from the recording business and has been for some time.

Bluebrock has been hinting there's something in the works, which wouldn't surprise me because I have had a suspicion that some of the recent in your face Diana moments are a part of the plan for publicity for her next musical move. We shall see.

As for Diana and Stevie, I can't side with you on this one my friend. Diana and Stevie in the 60s? Hell yeah. Diana and Stevie in the 70s? Damn right. Diana and Stevie today? No way! Lol I think Stevie has gone off the deep end vocally in recent years. It's painful to listen to him riff and run through an entire song. I don't think at this point he and Diana would have any chemistry. But the two of them singing "I'm Gonna Make You Love Me" and "For Once In My Life" back in the 60s? That was two greats doing their thang.

[RanRan79]

Yea RanRan stop fuckin swearin :p

I'll fuckin try.:cool:

[RanRan79]

I doubt the love they claim they have for Mary is authentic anyway.

Perhaps, but I think the same can be said for some of these Diana nuts. I think Mary and Diana become just another thing for them to troll about. If they woke up tomorrow with Diana and Mary erased from their minds, they'd be on the net trolling Camp Ethel or Camp Fred. First Darrin or second Darrin. Team first Lionel or team second Lionel. I'm telling you something is wrong with these people.

[RanRan79]

Good one, RanRan79!! Laughing out loud...

I'm telling you this actually happened.:o

[thanxal]

Perhaps, but I think the same can be said for some of these Diana nuts. I think Mary and Diana become just another thing for them to troll about. If they woke up tomorrow with Diana and Mary erased from their minds, they'd be on the net trolling Camp Ethel or Camp Fred. First Darrin or second Darrin. Team first Lionel or team second Lionel. I'm telling you something is wrong with these people.
100% true. There are noxious personalities on both sides. I wish Ralph would create a page just for them to go fight on and force them to leave unrelated topics alone.

[midnightman]

Perhaps, but I think the same can be said for some of these Diana nuts. I think Mary and Diana become just another thing for them to troll about. If they woke up tomorrow with Diana and Mary erased from their minds, they'd be on the net trolling Camp Ethel or Camp Fred. First Darrin or second Darrin. Team first Lionel or team second Lionel. I'm telling you something is wrong with these people.

THAT IS TRUE lol

Diana & Mary ain't even worried about these fools. :)

[daviddh]

with the recent success of the remix of her first #1 , I think there is something in the wings ,..coming our way. cant wait.
but 2018 should be a good one for all of us, Supremes Sing HDH is in our near future and the 40th anniversary of ROSS 78 . it is my understanding that recently additional tracks were found for Ross .
plus her 90s albums are still up for expanded treatment.
I am in need for a Ross/Supremes fix now. come on universal.sneek peak would be nice

[midnightman]

The Love Child album turns 50 this year.

[Bluebrock]

The Love Child album turns 50 this year.
We may get that by the end of the year. Fingers crossed. Let us hope so.

[daviddh]

LOVE CHILD is a good set ,...look 4ward to that one but I thought REFLECTIONS would be up next.......either way we will have a good year.
bluebrock, ur mailbox is now full.lol

[RanRan79]

LOVE CHILD is a good set ,...look 4ward to that one but I thought REFLECTIONS would be up next.......either way we will have a good year.
bluebrock, ur mailbox is now full.lol

I don't think Universal cares about capitalizing on anniversaries regarding Motown, so I think it'll be another minute before we get around to an expanded Love Child.

[Bluebrock]

LOVE CHILD is a good set ,...look 4ward to that one but I thought REFLECTIONS would be up next.......either way we will have a good year.
bluebrock, ur mailbox is now full.lol
Sorted now my friend.

[sup_fan]

I'm wondering how many more Expanded Editions there'll be. we know about Sing HDH and it's rumored that Reflections is on the docket. But after that lp, aside from Funny Girl, the group wasn't recording the same way or approaching albums the same way.

earlier in their career, while they always were just recording more and more general tracks, they were also doing quite a bit of specific projects. Of course there are the early specialty albums. And then when they did I Hear a Symphony, there was a focus and purpose to the recordings to prepare a mature album that would elevate the group in the public's perception. They specifically went into the studio to record the majority of those songs in Nov 65. Then in 66 and 67, they were continuing to do a lot of other specific recording projects - R&H, broadway, Disney. As they assembled A Go Go, there was a pretty clear idea that they wanted to do a dance record.

my opinion of Sing HDH was that Berry wanted to placate Eddie, Brian and Lamont due to the slowly deteriorating relationship. maybe Berry figured if he released Sing HDH that would satisfy part of their egos and get them off his back about the increased royalties.

mid to late 67 saw the group and HDH dabbling in psychedelic soul a little. the Reflections title track and a handful of the album tracks fall into a nice cohesive work and had HDH stayed, makes one wonder if the final Reflections lp might have had some more of this. or maybe there are a few more tracks similar to I'm Gonna make it, Forever Came To Day, etc.

Then mid to late 68 when Love Child hit, they did a bunch of "serious" songs with social commentary and the like. some have been released already on various compilations.

then they did a lot of recording with the Temps from mid 68 through early 69.

outside of these pockets, most of the rest of their studio work was really more about Diana. M and C weren't on a lot of them and many of the tracks we've since received don't have any backups recorded. There are a variety of Smokey tracks and a variety of other producers. I think what they were doing was experimenting with Diana on a whole range of styles and material - from Canadian Sunset to Stormy to Ain't No Sun Since You've Been Gone to Discover Me. Then every 4 - 6 months they'd cobble together an album using the last single or two and filler.

I'm wondering if the Sups L&F set was meant to clean out a bunch of the DRATS material. and maybe there's enough for a Reflections and possibly a LC expanded edition. but then after those two [[and with the anthologies, the pink box set and L&F) the later DRATS material would be mostly released.