Supremes - Touch [[Live - Model of the Year - 1973)

[loganjlr]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sm2x_TGGxV0


I recently came by this video when I was searching for live versions of "Touch." I sifted through a few where Scherrie sings Jean's part, but this is probably my favorite where they not only feature all live vocals, but we get a rare lead line from Lynda as well.

According to the description, this was recorded near the end of Jean's tenure. Does anyone have any interesting information about this performance, or the members since I imagine it was a tumultuous time for Jean and the rest of the group?

Some stuff I picked up from the comments but didn't verify:

--they didn't have any new singles to promote at the time, so they chose to perform "Touch."
--some commenters pointed out the tension between Mary and Jean during this time period [[don't know if it's true or hearsay)

[blackguy69]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sm2x_TGGxV0


I recently came by this video when I was searching for live versions of "Touch." I sifted through a few where Scherrie sings Jean's part, but this is probably my favorite where they not only feature all live vocals, but we get a rare lead line from Lynda as well.

According to the description, this was recorded near the end of Jean's tenure. Does anyone have any interesting information about this performance, or the members since I imagine it was a tumultuous time for Jean and the rest of the group?

Some stuff I picked up from the comments but didn't verify:

--they didn't have any new singles to promote at the time, so they chose to perform "Touch."
--some commenters pointed out the tension between Mary and Jean during this time period [[don't know if it's true or hearsay)
This was Jean and Lynda’s last tv appearance with the group. According to Mary they also did Bad Weather but I never seen it.

[sup_fan]

yes this was right at the end for both of them. Overall they sound great. but there's little to no interaction between them. no acknowledgment or even eye contact.

And apparently Lynda was showing as she's pulled her little cape forward to hang in front of the baby bump

I believe this was a tv special that was taped at the same theater where the Ed Sullivan show was taped. It went off the air in 71 i think? so the irony was that jean's first and last tv appearance as a Supreme was taped here.

As for Bad Weather, i too have never seen anything of it. Only in mary's 2nd book is it mentioned. maybe they performed it, maybe she didn't remember correctly. it would seem to make some sense since it's the most recent single release. Not sure why they did Touch other than mary probably realized they were leaving and wanted to start getting some tv air time for herself so that when she reformed the group or did whatever post Jean, she'd have something recent of a lead performance.

[bradsupremes]

I believe this was a tv special that was taped at the same theater where the Ed Sullivan show was taped. It went off the air in 71 i think? so the irony was that jean's first and last tv appearance as a Supreme was taped here.

I also thought this was taped at the Ed Sullivan Theatre but then I came across a photo of the same set in what appeared to be a rehearsal shot of the models lined up and it was marked CBS Television City in LA. I think one of the TV cameras had it marked too. Let me see if I can find it.

[marybrewster]

Earlier this year, I asked this question regarding this performance:

Can anyone take a guess why Jean, Mary, and Lynda performed "Touch" for this special? The song didn't fare well when it was released [[with Cindy's vocals) two years earlier in 1971 [[charting at #71); there had been several subsequent releases: "Floy Joy" [[1971: #16), "Automatically Sunshine" [[1972: #37), "Your Wonderful Sweet, Sweet Love" [[1972, #59) that fared better, and while perhaps they didn't chart better, "I Guess I'll Miss the Man" and "Bad Weather" were at least two of their newer releases.



One of the best answers came from BayouMotownMan:

At the time of this special Mary knew fully well that Jean was leaving and suspected Lynda would be too.

Jean Terrell demanded to do her solo "He Ain't Heavy" for this show. Since there was no new product coming out on the group Mary attempted to renew interest in Touch and Bad Weather. She shot down Jean's demand in a rare act of rebellion [[Mary had been trying to convince Jean to stay) and told both Jean and Lynda in no uncertain terms that these were the two songs they'd do for this show. Jean knew this was her last performance so she did it.

Here's that original thread for more insight:

https://soulfuldetroit.com/showthread.php?19017-The-Supremes-quot-Model-of-the-Year-quot-1973&highlight=model+year

[Bluebrock]

This was one of the strongest Supremes line up. It is such a pity that they couldn't get along better. It is truly sad that the only album they recorded together was the dismal Jimmy Webb project.I know they did a few tracks with Stevie, but we are unlikely to hear these during Stevie's lifetime.
Just imagine what sweet music this trio could have made with some strong material. What a missed opportunity.

[sup_fan]

First let me state that i'm a fan of all of the girls and lineups. not trying to pit one against the other

that said, i do think there are strengths and weaknesses to each of the lineups. IMO the three singers in the MJL lineup are very strong but i don't know if their vocal blend was right. i think that jean's and lynda's voices both have a brightness to them, they're a bit piercing. and so they don't blend as well as the MJC lineup. it's necessary to have one of the voices be able to penetrate but having two makes it too hard to blend. I find this especially evident on the Japan lp

On a similar note, i think Cindy really emerges in the 70s. i think her vocals in the DRATS era are considerably weaker. not sure if her confidence simply grew as she became more established in the act or if during the 70s era she was able to enjoy a more prominent role in the act and that contributed to it. example is the Funny Girl expanded editions - her soprano vocals in Sadie Sadie are enjoyable. nothing particularly wrong with them but not amazing. But then get her with Jean and it's great. I heard that in many of the 70s recordings, Jean is actually doing the top harmony and Cindy the middle. perhaps that's more in her range and so it comes across stronger.

[BayouMotownMan]

The ladies performed Bad Weather earlier in the show wearing the green and blue No Matter What Sign gowns. Jean Terrell was in great vocal form, her prime.

[sup_fan]

wow! wish that video footage would show up. would be great to see

[RanRan79]

First let me state that i'm a fan of all of the girls and lineups. not trying to pit one against the other

that said, i do think there are strengths and weaknesses to each of the lineups. IMO the three singers in the MJL lineup are very strong but i don't know if their vocal blend was right. i think that jean's and lynda's voices both have a brightness to them, they're a bit piercing. and so they don't blend as well as the MJC lineup. it's necessary to have one of the voices be able to penetrate but having two makes it too hard to blend. I find this especially evident on the Japan lp

On a similar note, i think Cindy really emerges in the 70s. i think her vocals in the DRATS era are considerably weaker. not sure if her confidence simply grew as she became more established in the act or if during the 70s era she was able to enjoy a more prominent role in the act and that contributed to it. example is the Funny Girl expanded editions - her soprano vocals in Sadie Sadie are enjoyable. nothing particularly wrong with them but not amazing. But then get her with Jean and it's great. I heard that in many of the 70s recordings, Jean is actually doing the top harmony and Cindy the middle. perhaps that's more in her range and so it comes across stronger.

Sup Fan, I'm of a different opinion than yours. JML in my mind were tailor made for the 70s, a very funky decade. I think they could have easily done the stuff that Labelle was doing at the time. Had I been in control of the group at the time I would have transformed them into a cross between Labelle and the Three Degrees, another group who's material I think JML could have easily mastered. I do understand your issue with Jean and Lynda's piercing vocals at times, however who could be more piercing than Patti Labelle and Sarah Dash in the same group? Lol I bring them up because if it worked for them, I don't think it would have been a big problem for the Supremes.

That lineup's biggest issues were [[a) Mary, Jean and Lynda's disconnect, which were probably 90 percent a result of issue [[b) which was Motown's waning support, and [[c) lack of quality material. How sad that, as of now, the only studio legacy of this lineup is almost exclusively the Jimmy Webb album, an album in which their vocals were augmented by the Blossoms, and an album that most fans consider a very poor collaboration. Supremes Produced and Arranged By Stevie Wonder would have surely been the better legacy and a sound a bit more in keeping with what was going on musically at the time.

Also their look was very in [[when they weren't recycling 60s era DRATS gowns). Mary was gorgeous and easily flowed between glamorous and funky looks. Jean was an underrated beauty IMO, but I do think she pulled off funky a little better than she did glamour. Lynda was gorgeous and in many ways was the "new" Mary of the group, if you will. She was the spark, the one you get the feeling that she got the party started. Lol The three of them were the perfect image of Black Is Beautiful.

In the right hands [[including Motown if someone at the label had been determined to see the group succeed) the Supremes with Lynda could have really gone places.

[sup_fan]

Love your points Ran - and love having these discussions here!! I think you bring up a lot of great points and agree with most of it. Plus there's always a LOT of difference between how the voices sound in studio and how they sound live. it is a shame that the lineup never really had an opportunity to shine and i agree that a more funky style and approach could have worked with the group.

a while back i started a thread that assembled and listed out all of producers and tracks post-Frank Wilson and posed the question of what direction should the girls have gone in. There had recently been some posts about how the Floy Joy sessions weren't ideal. Personally i like them and think it worked. it definitely was more pop than soul and Jean was most likely limited in what smokey allowed her to do vocally in the studio. still i think it worked. unlike Jimmy Webb.

i wonder what would have happened if the girls went from Smokey to Stevie. if they'd gone directly into Bad Weather and a full lp from him. That might have provided enough lift to the group that their sales wouldn't have slipped and motown might have held on a bit longer.

I also wonder if they'd allowed Lynda to be more of a lead singer. Seems that Cindy just wasn't interested in doing that. had the group gone to a 3 lead system [[like the MSS lineup) would that have renewed interest from the public? that combined with a less DRATS glamour image and a more funky sound?

[RanRan79]

Love your points Ran - and love having these discussions here!!

I love these discussions too!!


I think you bring up a lot of great points and agree with most of it. Plus there's always a LOT of difference between how the voices sound in studio and how they sound live. it is a shame that the lineup never really had an opportunity to shine and i agree that a more funky style and approach could have worked with the group.

Great point about live vs studio. I think it's so much easier for singers to be controlled in the studio. Once a singer like Jean Terrell hits the stage, all bets are off. She's going to do her thing. I think Lynda was the same way. So sometimes in the show it sounds like the two are a bit out of control. I don't think they sound like they're competing, which is my criticism of MSS. They just don't seem to blend together on every song. But there are definitely moments when all three are in their place and they sound heavenly.


a while back i started a thread that assembled and listed out all of producers and tracks post-Frank Wilson and posed the question of what direction should the girls have gone in. There had recently been some posts about how the Floy Joy sessions weren't ideal. Personally i like them and think it worked. it definitely was more pop than soul and Jean was most likely limited in what smokey allowed her to do vocally in the studio. still i think it worked. unlike Jimmy Webb.

i wonder what would have happened if the girls went from Smokey to Stevie. if they'd gone directly into Bad Weather and a full lp from him. That might have provided enough lift to the group that their sales wouldn't have slipped and motown might have held on a bit longer.

I love the Floy Joy album, even though I'm not crazy about the title cut. I think the vision at that point was good, it just didn't pan out. That happens sometimes. I do agree that the group should have gone from Smokey to Stevie. The JW album made the public lose focus. With Smokey they were still having hits. "Bad Weather" should have been a hit, certainly better than it did. Who knows what single from the Stevie album would have followed "Bad Weather". Maybe instead of Aretha releasing "Until You Come Back to Me", the Supremes would have done it?


I also wonder if they'd allowed Lynda to be more of a lead singer. Seems that Cindy just wasn't interested in doing that. had the group gone to a 3 lead system [[like the MSS lineup) would that have renewed interest from the public? that combined with a less DRATS glamour image and a more funky sound?

IMO Lynda was the key to making the group move at that point. Cindy was great but she was no lead singer. The Supremes had an identifiable lead singer in Diana Ross, and then following her, Jean Terrell, but I don't think the group by this point needed that one voice focal point. All three ladies were capable of carrying the lead. The Supremes hadn't had that ability since Flo was last a member.

[gman]

I'm remembering Bad Weather too....I believe they were lined up on the left side of the screen. they did get a lot of TV exposure during this final period....Bad Weather had at least 3 airings...Kate Smith special, Soul Train and here...that is quite a lot of exposure. The single was hard to find in stores and not played on radio...and that to me seems like the reason it flopped. It had more energy
than the previous few singles and was different enough to be a new sound...very Stax like, more Memphis than Detroit I thought with the horns. I guess people just didn't like it enough or after the first
attempt to buy it and not have the single in stock, we just moved on to something else...or some may have been waiting for an LP.
I still am convinced that I Guess I'll Miss The Man should have been heavily promoted and pushed in the Light Pop/Adult radio market and once there was enough airplay and buzz there it would have done well in the broader market. BW is just a nice funky track....IGIMTM is a quiet storm masterpiece. It just holds up much better. So does Nathan Jones.

[milven]

Supremes also sang "Bad Weather" on a Bob Hope Special. People continue to say that the Supremes got no support in the seventies. But they were all over the place promoting their hits on TV. They were constantly featured in the magazines of the day like JET and SOUL and EBONY, and Motown continued to give them full page ads in the Trade Papers like BILLBOARD and CASH BOX and RECORD WORLD. Some will say that fans do not read the trades. But Record Store Owners, Dee-Jays, Record Promoters and Venue Bookers do read those trades and those people can help to make a record and an act a hit.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn9SchhvvMY

[blackguy69]

I think the question isn’t that they weren’t being promoted but they weren’t getting the same support as they did in the past. It’s easy for those of us on here to say they got promotion because we’re looking at it decades later and seeing the appearances. But I’m sure it looked very different from their point of view while it was happening. Tv is one thing but if their songs aren’t being played in the radio then being on tv is almost pointless. They can do countless appearances but if u don’t hear them on the radio or able to buy the single then I would guess the single would go nowhere.

[blackguy69]

Here is a challenge for the group, can anyone find any multiple promotional ads of bad weather or any 70’s supremes single other than the token ones that have been released.

[RanRan79]

I think BG has a point, the real issue is whatever was going on between radio and Motown. Thanks to Youtube, the myth of the post Ross Supremes nobody ever saw has been destroyed. But did anyone ever hear this stuff on the radio? I love that video of the girls performing the song on Soul Train. Those kids were loving it and loving the girls. No reason to believe that only the kids on Soul Train liked "Bad Weather". Now if the record was hard to find in stores, that's another issue too. I think it's almost fact at this point that Motown was not in the Supremes' corner. Yes, they were booked on tv and still went into the studio and still booked concert dates. But there doesn't appear to be any real support in returning the Supremes to the top, particularly after Cindy left the first time and Lynda replaced her. The girls were going out in public [[concert, publicity photos) nearing the mid 1970s in gowns that the public had seen countless times before on the Diana led group of the late 60s. That alone was a signal that nobody with real power at Motown gave a flying f*** about the Supremes at that point.

[bradsupremes]

Here’s a question. Who did the television bookings during this period? Motown Or Supremes, Inc.?

[gman]

Exactly the point I was trying to make....I never even heard Nathan Jones on the radio....River Deep was the last AM radio Supremes 45 I heard on WABC...I also never heard Surrender or Reach Out I'll Be There....but I did hear Everybody's Got The Right, I'm Still Waiting and Remember Me often enough to be shocked years later when doing research to find out these were not top 10 chart holders...ditto for a few more that come to mind: Tom Clays single What The World Needs Now, Les Cranes reading of the wonderful very spiritual Desiderata, Fancy's hot panting version of Wild Thing and Donna Summers Spring Affair single.

[marv2]

Exactly the point I was trying to make....I never even heard Nathan Jones on the radio....River Deep was the last AM radio Supremes 45 I heard on WABC...I also never heard Surrender or Reach Out I'll Be There....but I did hear Everybody's Got The Right, I'm Still Waiting and Remember Me often enough to be shocked years later when doing research to find out these were not top 10 chart holders...ditto for a few more that come to mind: Tom Clays single What The World Needs Now, Les Cranes reading of the wonderful very spiritual Desiderata, Fancy's hot panting version of Wild Thing and Donna Summers Spring Affair single.

"High Inergy" was the last Supremes record I heard on the radio and then they would only play it late at night.

[gman]

FM stations like WBLS in NYC played LP tracks. [[My friends and I only listened to WPLJ classic hard rock) when I made a periodic occasional stray to a friends girlfriends group that liked disco and RNB I heard You're What's Missing In My Life on WBLS in the summer of '76 a few times...but what I meant was early-mid 70's airplay on those top 40 powerhouse AM car radio stations. Getting the goods on the air in heavy rotation in the major big city markets on the top AM stations was crucial for a big hit. Only AM radio was the standard factory installation in cars way back then.
And God only knows how many millions of us got small 9 volt transistor AM radios for Christmas back in the day. I can still remember hearing I Want You Back and Stoned Love on my little Olive Green one.

[Thornton]

I think to a certain extent Lynda was the most underused member of the group. JML could have had a really tight, contemporary act that still included the 60's hits and a couple standards. It would have been great to hear Lynda sing "Signed, Sealed, Delivered [[I'm Yours)" instead of "You're Nobody Til Somebody Loves You", which was just embarrassing at that point. She could have also handled "Love Is Here And Now You're Gone" for their 60's medley.

I overlooked the JML lineup for years because of the lack of recorded material, bizarre live act, and DRATS gowns, which made them seem out of touch in 72-73. Now I see how successful they could have been. It's truly a shame that we can only distinctly hear Lynda on "Bad Weather". Lynda, and the JML lineup deserved so much better.

[jim aka jtigre99]

As Mary has stated they did not get along during the JML years. Lynda was excited to be the new Supremes but Jean apparently rebelled against Motown which certainly wouldn't put the record company in her corner. I heard Nathan Jones as the last record on local radio until the Scherrie years where I heard IGLMHDTW, Driving Wheel and Let Yourself Go on the radio stations like WAMO. Visually, they sounded good and had the look for the mid 70's but there was no chemistry live. Jean seemed to pull away from the group vibe she had with JMC and Mary & Lynda seemed to shake a lot in the background. There was no cohesiveness in the group, Jean & Lynda had no loyalty to the label and wanted to move to another under a different name. The next grouping with SMC had the good harmonies and visual cohesiveness that group had lacked for some time. I had to search for Bad Weather in the record stores, remember when I bought the Supremes 75 it was the only copy there and the clerk just kept looking at it like they had never seen it. I remember winning Floy Joy LP off of a radio contest and hearing the DJ say "hey, we're giving this away but we've played this". For a group to succeed they need the sound, the look, the vision and the support. We can debate what was missing, but something did prevent the Supremes from continuing on to be the top group.

[gman]

We have to factor in public taste as well if we look for reasons other than promotion and support for singles dropping....Motown was not the hit making factory it was 3 years ago.....
Seems only Stevie was a sure bet for a AM radio hit and a successful high charting LP every time out 71-74

[sup_fan]

i think one of the most baffling questions is why on earth the MJL lineup reverted back to more old DRATS songs in their live shows?? truly confusing.

The girls were trying to update their visual look a big with the afros and more contemporary outfits. They had the floral sequins on Sonny & Cher, the gowns here in the Touch video. The purple dresses on Flip Wilson doing lean On Me. and there's a pic of them at their LA opening in these puffy floral numbers. So they were making some attempts to modernize and get rid of some of the Diana Ross excessive sequins. But i think it was too little too late.

I think part of the problem can be linked back to Cindy's departure. not only was this ANOTHER lineup change [[3rd in 5 years) but it came when they were just rebounding from the disastrous single Touch. They rebounded with FJ and i think if Cindy had stayed and they'd made more US tv appearances, Auto Sun would have performed better.

Then the next disaster was the Jimmy Webb project. it's debatable that it might have worked if 1) the girls had been stronger on the charts at the time and 2) the choir wasn't added. but still questionable. I think moving directly from the Smokey project to a Stevie project would have worked better

so you have a revolving door of members, questionable management regarding their live shows, recording reputation damaged by the Webb project

[bradsupremes]

i think one of the most baffling questions is why on earth the MJL lineup reverted back to more old DRATS songs in their live shows?? truly confusing.

The girls were trying to update their visual look a big with the afros and more contemporary outfits. They had the floral sequins on Sonny & Cher, the gowns here in the Touch video. The purple dresses on Flip Wilson doing lean On Me. and there's a pic of them at their LA opening in these puffy floral numbers. So they were making some attempts to modernize and get rid of some of the Diana Ross excessive sequins. But i think it was too little too late.

I think part of the problem can be linked back to Cindy's departure. not only was this ANOTHER lineup change [[3rd in 5 years) but it came when they were just rebounding from the disastrous single Touch. They rebounded with FJ and i think if Cindy had stayed and they'd made more US tv appearances, Auto Sun would have performed better.

Then the next disaster was the Jimmy Webb project. it's debatable that it might have worked if 1) the girls had been stronger on the charts at the time and 2) the choir wasn't added. but still questionable. I think moving directly from the Smokey project to a Stevie project would have worked better

so you have a revolving door of members, questionable management regarding their live shows, recording reputation damaged by the Webb project

Gil Askey came back as their music director and he brought back the Farewell charts as they had been playing around with their set list. I think it was a poor idea to bring back those charts. It dated the group at a time when they need to reinvent themselves. They needed to ditch all the 60's gowns. The new designs they did introduce didn't last because they were rather plain and the ladies didn't like them. They could have kept the beads and sequins, but the style should have been different.

I liked JML sound. I think they had the right ingredients to tackle more R&B and take on a funkier sound, but there was something lacking. They didn't gel together like JMC or SMC did. I really think Cindy's presence made a difference. The Jimmy Webb album really knocked off their potential and it was only downhill from there. They bounced back when Scherrie and Cindy rejoined but then they had their own setbacks.

[jobeterob]

Gil Askey came back as their music director and he brought back the Farewell charts as they had been playing around with their set list. I think it was a poor idea to bring back those charts. It dated the group at a time when they need to reinvent themselves. They needed to ditch all the 60's gowns. The new designs they did introduce didn't last because they were rather plain and the ladies didn't like them. They could have kept the beads and sequins, but the style should have been different.

I liked JML sound. I think they had the right ingredients to tackle more R&B and take on a funkier sound, but there was something lacking. They didn't gel together like JMC or SMC did. I really think Cindy's presence made a difference. The Jimmy Webb album really knocked off their potential and it was only downhill from there. They bounced back when Scherrie and Cindy rejoined but then they had their own setbacks.

I agree with this post.

From Touch forward, it was downhill.

The sound of Touch was so unSupremelike. Going back to 60's charts was a mistake - that era was done and gone and the happening female groups were the Pointer Sisters and Emotions and that's where they should have gone - and they had a wee chance to do that around New Ways But Love Stays. And the Jimmy Webb album was a disaster in terms of success - a modest stay on the charts and what did it reach? 156 or some such number.

But I did like the Touch album myself; it was a strong album. And I do like much of the Jimmy Webb album - but I'm a fan and was always a fan.

I would have ditched the Webb album and taken 530 Plane and put it on the Touch album and released 530 Plane as a single. And they might have had a chance.

People don't like it but if you go take a look at Facebook, Diana Ross has 1,950,000 followers. Mary Wilson has 20,000.

These are old time heritage artists; but those numbers, just like the chart numbers and hits and sales, tell the story.

That's how it all rolled out for some reason.

[blackguy69]

I agree with this post.

From Touch forward, it was downhill.

The sound of Touch was so unSupremelike. Going back to 60's charts was a mistake - that era was done and gone and the happening female groups were the Pointer Sisters and Emotions and that's where they should have gone - and they had a wee chance to do that around New Ways But Love Stays. And the Jimmy Webb album was a disaster in terms of success - a modest stay on the charts and what did it reach? 156 or some such number.

But I did like the Touch album myself; it was a strong album. And I do like much of the Jimmy Webb album - but I'm a fan and was always a fan.

I would have ditched the Webb album and taken 530 Plane and put it on the Touch album and released 530 Plane as a single. And they might have had a chance.

People don't like it but if you go take a look at Facebook, Diana Ross has 1,950,000 followers. Mary Wilson has 20,000.

These are old time heritage artists; but those numbers, just like the chart numbers and hits and sales, tell the story.

That's how it all rolled out for some reason.
Touch was a very supreme song but not as a single or at least the mix that was released. 530 plane wouldn’t have worked as a single either. Like some had said if they went from floy joy to bad weather that would’ve worked.
Why mention Diana when she isn’t a topic on this thread.

[gman]

Touch and High Energy are 2 of my all time favorite LPS by anyone. They still sound good. I agree Touch was not a great choice for a single. Have I Lost You or Here Comes The Sunrise would have been a better, more radio friendly choice. I find Touch the smoothest listen and well put together Jean era LP. Floy Joy sounds very consistent too, style wise. RO & NWBLS & the'75 LP were very hodge podge sounding due to the variety of styles in the cuts. High Energy and Floy Joy are the only LPs I like every cut on. Time and Love is one song that grates my nerves...by anyone [[so is Love The One You're With) had that one not been on Touch I would find the LP flawless.

[floyjoy678]

I agree with this post.

From Touch forward, it was downhill.

The sound of Touch was so unSupremelike. Going back to 60's charts was a mistake - that era was done and gone and the happening female groups were the Pointer Sisters and Emotions and that's where they should have gone - and they had a wee chance to do that around New Ways But Love Stays. And the Jimmy Webb album was a disaster in terms of success - a modest stay on the charts and what did it reach? 156 or some such number.

But I did like the Touch album myself; it was a strong album. And I do like much of the Jimmy Webb album - but I'm a fan and was always a fan.

I would have ditched the Webb album and taken 530 Plane and put it on the Touch album and released 530 Plane as a single. And they might have had a chance.

People don't like it but if you go take a look at Facebook, Diana Ross has 1,950,000 followers. Mary Wilson has 20,000.

These are old time heritage artists; but those numbers, just like the chart numbers and hits and sales, tell the story.

That's how it all rolled out for some reason.

And The Supremes have nearly 2 million followers.

[jim aka jtigre99]

Most of the LPs released in the 70's were miles beyond the 60's output artistically. I remember Clifton Davis on Mike Douglas saying Here Comes the Sunrise was going to be a single from the Supremes but it changed and he was disappointed. I am not sure if that song would have been a hit, either. A big portion of Motown's push was starting to be in movies starting at this time and the lack of attention hit many of the acts-some like the Four Tops and Gladys Knight and the Pips left the label and had success. I honestly did not see the Supremes perform Nathan Jones, Touch, Floy Joy and Automatically Sunshine on television when released. 3 of the 4 still were top 40 hits. They didn't start again until Your Wonderful Sweet Sweet Love to be singing these songs on television. Touch was performed later, as was Floy Joy. I heard Nathan Jones on the radio and once I heard Automatically Sunshine but they were no longer staples. A number of the Motown acts were missing from radio at this time. I also think the loss of Cindy hurt, even the general public had become used to Mary & Cindy in the group. Whether you liked Jean or Scherrie was up to the listener but Mary & Cindy gave them a credibility that they were the Supremes. Lynda looked like Cindy in some ways but she did give a more modern edge to the group. It just seemed that the JML line up was the one that just didn't catch on.

[blackguy69]

They did do Nathan jones [[the tonight show), touch [[flip Wilson) and floy joy [[merv griffin) on tv around the time they were released.

[gman]

In the very early 80's, I had a live tape of various TV performances and I believe it was Nathan Jones, they stopped the band and I guess it was Jean telling them Easy! Easy!...I did not see the performance on TV though....Wouldn't it be great to have Jean do a live CD today? I enjoyed her Motorcity cuts as well. Crazy Bout The Guy and I Want to Be Loved are quite good....and Back By Popular Demand with the Originals s my tops fav. Ian Levine production

[sup_fan]

They did do Nathan jones [[the tonight show), touch [[flip Wilson) and floy joy [[merv griffin) on tv around the time they were released.

that's correct. the only song that didn't get a US TV performance was Automatically Sunshine [[excluding the duets).

Here are the national US shows that i know of. i believe they also did the Nancy Wilson show? maybe with He's My Man?

Ladder - Ed Sullivan, Smokey Robinson special, Merv Griffin, Andy Williams medley
Everybody - Glen Campbell, Andy Williams medley
Stoned Love - Tom Jones, Flip Wilson, Mike Douglas, Soul Train
River Deep - Tom Jones, Pearl Bailey special
Nathan Jones - Tonight Show
Touch - Flip Wilson, Model of the Year special
Floy Joy - Merv Griffin, Soul Train
Automatically Sunshine - ?
Your Wonderful Sweet Sweet Love - Sonny & Cher, Flip Wilson
I Guess I'll Miss The Man - Soul Train, Kate Smith special, Mike Douglas
Bad Weather - Soul Train, Bob Hope special, Kate Smith special, Model of the Year special
He's My Man - Dinah Shore [[2x), Soul Train, Merv Griffin, Sammy Davis Jr, Tonight Show
Where Do I Go From Here - ?
I'm Gonna Let My Heart Do The Walking - Soul Train, American Bandstand, Mike Douglas
You're My Driving Wheel - Merv Griffin, Soul Train
Let Yourself Go - Merv Griffin, Mike Douglas

[blackguy69]

They did Dinah in 76 and 77. You forgot they were on American Bandstand in 75

[marv2]

In the very early 80's, I had a live tape of various TV performances and I believe it was Nathan Jones, they stopped the band and I guess it was Jean telling them Easy! Easy!...I did not see the performance on TV though....Wouldn't it be great to have Jean do a live CD today? I enjoyed her Motorcity cuts as well. Crazy Bout The Guy and I Want to Be Loved are quite good....and Back By Popular Demand with the Originals s my tops fav. Ian Levine production

I saw it. It was the Tonight Show and Joe Namath was hosting. He spent a lot time that night flirting with Mary Wilson openly.

[marv2]

that's correct. the only song that didn't get a US TV performance was Automatically Sunshine [[excluding the duets).

Here are the national US shows that i know of. i believe they also did the Nancy Wilson show? maybe with He's My Man?

Ladder - Ed Sullivan, Smokey Robinson special, Merv Griffin, Andy Williams medley
Everybody - Glen Campbell, Andy Williams medley
Stoned Love - Tom Jones, Flip Wilson, Mike Douglas, Soul Train
River Deep - Tom Jones, Pearl Bailey special
Nathan Jones - Tonight Show
Touch - Flip Wilson, Model of the Year special
Floy Joy - Merv Griffin, Soul Train
Automatically Sunshine - ?
Your Wonderful Sweet Sweet Love - Sonny & Cher, Flip Wilson
I Guess I'll Miss The Man - Soul Train, Kate Smith special, Mike Douglas
Bad Weather - Soul Train, Bob Hope special, Kate Smith special, Model of the Year special
He's My Man - Dinah Shore [[2x), Soul Train, Merv Griffin, Sammy Davis Jr, Tonight Show
Where Do I Go From Here - ?
I'm Gonna Let My Heart Do The Walking - Soul Train, American Bandstand, Mike Douglas
You're My Driving Wheel - Merv Griffin, Soul Train
Let Yourself Go - Merv Griffin, Mike Douglas

They performed "I'm Gonna Let My Heart Do the Walking" and "You're What's Missing In My Life" on The Scene [[w/Nat Morris) in 1976.

[marv2]

that's correct. the only song that didn't get a US TV performance was Automatically Sunshine [[excluding the duets).

Here are the national US shows that i know of. i believe they also did the Nancy Wilson show? maybe with He's My Man?

Ladder - Ed Sullivan, Smokey Robinson special, Merv Griffin, Andy Williams medley
Everybody - Glen Campbell, Andy Williams medley
Stoned Love - Tom Jones, Flip Wilson, Mike Douglas, Soul Train
River Deep - Tom Jones, Pearl Bailey special
Nathan Jones - Tonight Show
Touch - Flip Wilson, Model of the Year special
Floy Joy - Merv Griffin, Soul Train
Automatically Sunshine - ?
Your Wonderful Sweet Sweet Love - Sonny & Cher, Flip Wilson
I Guess I'll Miss The Man - Soul Train, Kate Smith special, Mike Douglas
Bad Weather - Soul Train, Bob Hope special, Kate Smith special, Model of the Year special
He's My Man - Dinah Shore [[2x), Soul Train, Merv Griffin, Sammy Davis Jr, Tonight Show
Where Do I Go From Here - ?
I'm Gonna Let My Heart Do The Walking - Soul Train, American Bandstand, Mike Douglas
You're My Driving Wheel - Merv Griffin, Soul Train
Let Yourself Go - Merv Griffin, Mike Douglas

I know there were more television appearances than that including the telethons. I just think for a moment to remember.

[marv2]

that's correct. the only song that didn't get a US TV performance was Automatically Sunshine [[excluding the duets).

Here are the national US shows that i know of. i believe they also did the Nancy Wilson show? maybe with He's My Man?

Ladder - Ed Sullivan, Smokey Robinson special, Merv Griffin, Andy Williams medley
Everybody - Glen Campbell, Andy Williams medley
Stoned Love - Tom Jones, Flip Wilson, Mike Douglas, Soul Train
River Deep - Tom Jones, Pearl Bailey special
Nathan Jones - Tonight Show
Touch - Flip Wilson, Model of the Year special
Floy Joy - Merv Griffin, Soul Train
Automatically Sunshine - ?
Your Wonderful Sweet Sweet Love - Sonny & Cher, Flip Wilson
I Guess I'll Miss The Man - Soul Train, Kate Smith special, Mike Douglas
Bad Weather - Soul Train, Bob Hope special, Kate Smith special, Model of the Year special
He's My Man - Dinah Shore [[2x), Soul Train, Merv Griffin, Sammy Davis Jr, Tonight Show
Where Do I Go From Here - ?
I'm Gonna Let My Heart Do The Walking - Soul Train, American Bandstand, Mike Douglas
You're My Driving Wheel - Merv Griffin, Soul Train
Let Yourself Go - Merv Griffin, Mike Douglas

The Pearl Bailey Show was a weekly program and not one time special.

[sup_fan]

I remember the 75 bandstand performance and that they did This Is Why. But I was only listing out the appearances of the A side singles

[gman]

One telethon was a lip-synch of Don't Let My Teardrops Bother You
an they had on the beaded royal performance gowns, and I believe it was the first time I saw Susaye.

[blackguy69]

I remember the 75 bandstand performance and that they did This Is Why. But I was only listing out the appearances of the A side singles
They did he’s my man also

[blackguy69]

They performed "I'm Gonna Let My Heart Do the Walking" and "You're What's Missing In My Life" on The Scene [[w/Nat Morris) in 1976.
I think he was listing national tv appearances only. I’m sure there are countless local tv appearances as well

[marv2]

I think he was listing national tv appearances only. I’m sure there are countless local tv appearances as well

Also very many foreign television appearances.

[sup_fan]

Thbx BG. I knew they had to do something else on Bandstand but wasn’t sure.

[sup_fan]

What’s interesting when u list out the US tv appearances is u see that they really did heavily promote some singles. Like BW and HMM. So lack of tv time isn’t why they flopped

[blackguy69]

What’s interesting when u list out the US tv appearances is u see that they really did heavily promote some singles. Like BW and HMM. So lack of tv time isn’t why they flopped
Lack of radio airplay I’m guessing

[sup_fan]

agreed. they had ads in the weekly trade magazines, were featured on tv. the original Sups were also heavily promoted on radio interviews, teen magazines and the like. Also the types of tv shows might be important. early on the girls were always on Shindig, Hullabaloo and then Sullivan. Would Mike Douglas and Dinah Shore be as influential? weren't those daytime talk shows?

i know the timing was off on this but wouldn't it have been great to see the girls on Love Boat!! lol

or midnight special or something more contemporary.

[Thornton]

agreed. they had ads in the weekly trade magazines, were featured on tv. the original Sups were also heavily promoted on radio interviews, teen magazines and the like. Also the types of tv shows might be important. early on the girls were always on Shindig, Hullabaloo and then Sullivan. Would Mike Douglas and Dinah Shore be as influential? weren't those daytime talk shows?

i know the timing was off on this but wouldn't it have been great to see the girls on Love Boat!! lol

or midnight special or something more contemporary.

I think the types of shows they were absolutely affected promotion. The two final incarnations of the Supremes would have been better served performing on "Midnight Special" and "Don Kirshner's Rock Concert". I love Martha Reeves' performance on "Midnight Special" to promote her first solo album. Live vocals and a great band.

[sup_fan]

i love Miss Martha's first solo lp. absolutely masterful. There's the clips on youtube of her [[in braids) singing Peculiar, Love makes me do foolish things and Power of Love. is that her on Midnight special? i didn't think that was the show but maybe it was. She sounds great but frankly i think she comes across, visually, very bland. she doesn't seem very excited to be there. maybe the producers didn't have things set up for her to really work the stage. but she should have taken the mike off and walked around a little.

but you're point is well taken. something like that would have exposed the sups to a more contemporary audience. Studio 54 opened in April 77. Image the girls doing a performance there!

Saturday Night Live debuted in 75. while the Sups disco appeal might not have fit in there as well, it would have also been a good venue. I'm surprised other motown acts of the time didn't perform there. marvin, diana. Did any motown acts appear on there? i know martha did post motown

[Thornton]

You're right, Martha was on Don Kirshner's program, not Midnight Special. Saturday Night Live would have been another great venue to promote their work, even if their sound wasn't quite the right fit for the show.

[marv2]

Lack of radio airplay I’m guessing

Lack of radio airplay and the ability to find the records in the stores. It took me 2 years to find the "Bad Weather" single. I bought it the same day as the 1975 album.

[marv2]

I remember the 75 bandstand performance and that they did This Is Why. But I was only listing out the appearances of the A side singles

They also performed "He's My Man" during that 1975 AB appearance.

[marv2]

I can't remember what songs did they perform on the David Frost Show in 1971?

[floyjoy678]

I can't remember what songs did they perform on the David Frost Show in 1971?

From what I remember...

-60s hits medley [[Stop, Come See About Me, My World Is Empty, Baby Love) which leads into Up the Ladder To The Roof
-People
-Stoned Love

[marv2]

They did the Dick Cavitt Show in 1972.

[sup_fan]

On David Frost they did:

hits medley that includes Stop, Come see about me [[with a little Back in my arms again thrown in at end), you keep me hangin on, reflections, up the ladder

Feeling Good medley that includes Feeling good, loving country, together we can make such sweet music

macarthur park

heaven help us all

[sup_fan]

They did the Dick Cavitt Show in 1972.

that's right! they did the show in June of 72 so it would be the MJL lineup. And i thought there was a previous discussion on here about that show. didn't they talk about the Jimmy Webb lp? or maybe do Tossin and Turnin or something?

did they also do YWSSL?

[sup_fan]

They also performed "He's My Man" during that 1975 AB appearance.

I wonder if Mary wore a bra for that song lolol. she did NOT for This Is Why and let me tell ya... lololol

they were wearing those lavender sequin tops and black pants [[like on the back of Touch cover)

[sup_fan]

Lack of radio airplay and the ability to find the records in the stores. It took me 2 years to find the "Bad Weather" single. I bought it the same day as the 1975 album.

I'm trying to remember back in the day. did Motown do much with big, cardboard instore displays? i remember things with The Boss and some later releases but not the early 70s.

Some promotional efforts like that would have been helpful

[Thornton]

Full David Frost Set List:

1. Medley: Feelin' Good/The Loving Country/Together We Can Make Such Sweet Music
2. Medley: Stop! In the Name of Love/Come See About Me/Back In My Arms Again/You Keep Me Hangin' On/Reflections/Up the Ladder to the Roof
3. Stoned Love
4. People [[Jean Solo)
5. MacArthur Park
6. Heaven Help Us All

[marv2]

Thank you Floyjoy, Thorton and Sup fan.

[marv2]

that's right! they did the show in June of 72 so it would be the MJL lineup. And i thought there was a previous discussion on here about that show. didn't they talk about the Jimmy Webb lp? or maybe do Tossin and Turnin or something?

did they also do YWSSL?

I cannot remember the songs from the show for some reason.

[marv2]

I wonder if Mary wore a bra for that song lolol. she did NOT for This Is Why and let me tell ya... lololol

they were wearing those lavender sequin tops and black pants [[like on the back of Touch cover)

I was happy with that performance.......hehehehehehe!

[marv2]

I'm trying to remember back in the day. did Motown do much with big, cardboard instore displays? i remember things with The Boss and some later releases but not the early 70s.

Some promotional efforts like that would have been helpful

The last big cardboard display I remember was for the "Touch" album and it stood in the window of Clark's Record Shop on Dorr Street in Toledo for a couple of years.

[marv2]

Didn't they do the theme from "Exodus" on the David Frost Show?

[Thornton]

Didn't they do the theme from "Exodus" on the David Frost Show?

The recording I have ends with "Heaven Help Us All" and sounds like the end of the show. The only time I've ever heard The Supremes do "Exodus" was when Lynda sang lead in Hawaii. I would really like to hear Jean's lead on it.

[sup_fan]

the two recordings of MLC in Hawaii are quite good. especially considering Lynda was making not only her performance debut with the group but also having to take on lead vocals!! The three of them have a great blend and she does a very nice job. i think this could have been a strong lineup

M and C had a perfect blend when it came to the backgrounds, regardless of who was singing lead. They were really a wonderful pairing

[gman]

Agreed....the blend with Mary Scherrie and Cindy unit was the most controlled...live
and in the studio.

[franjoy56]

the produced and arranged by jimy webb lp went to 128 on t pop charts a major flop. The suprees 75 did worse at 152 but had big disco hit like hes my mancand early morning love and this is why i believe..color my world blue

[marv2]

the produced and arranged by jimy webb lp went to 128 on t pop charts a major flop. The suprees 75 did worse at 152 but had big disco hit like hes my mancand early morning love and this is why i believe..color my world blue


I remember seeing the "Produced and Arranged by Jimmy Webb" album advertised in the paper with albums on sale at Montgomery Wards back at the time. The cover was a turn off for a lot of people. Some walked right passed it not know it was the Supremes latest album.

[franjoy56]

The cover was wrong it should havr been omitted for a group shot. t high energy cover was a different story because. It had 4 suptemes singing on at least 2 cuts

[marv2]

The cover was wrong it should havr been omitted for a group shot. t high energy cover was a different story because. It had 4 suptemes singing on at least 2 cuts

Yes and the High Energy cover was classy, modern art. I thought it should have also been offered as a poster.

[gman]

I think I may have once seen a Touch display too...but I think it was the back cover photo. I once had the radio interview disc, which was a few snippets of not too interesting or revealing talking placed between every few edited cuts. the cover was the same as the standard LP but in B&W...this joined a lot of my collectables on ebay when I downsized about 15 years ago. I loved the Touch cover photo...all the hot fluorescent
edging outlining that beautiful soft and tasteful B&W shot. Cindy owned that cover!
Jean and Mary look great and gorgeous....but Cindy Birdsong looked super stunning.

[reese]

You're right, Martha was on Don Kirshner's program, not Midnight Special. Saturday Night Live would have been another great venue to promote their work, even if their sound wasn't quite the right fit for the show.

Martha did appear on the Midnight Special promoting her first solo album. She sang POWER OF LOVE.

[gman]

I watched both Midnight Special and Don Kirshners all the time. They remain some of the 70's best TV performances and often the acts that were on there didn't do a lot of afternoon or variety talk show TV. Kirshner was already along time veteran in the music business having been big in publishing in the early 60's so he knew many of the oldie and fading acts and gave them exposure....Midnight Special was also good to top 40 one hit wonders and many 70's clips from both shows along with UK's Top of The Pops
and Germany's Disco show exist on youtube and are a fun watch

[marv2]

I watched both Midnight Special and Don Kirshners all the time. They remain some of the 70's best TV performances and often the acts that were on there didn't do a lot of afternoon or variety talk show TV. Kirshner was already along time veteran in the music business having been big in publishing in the early 60's so he knew many of the oldie and fading acts and gave them exposure....Midnight Special was also good to top 40 one hit wonders and many 70's clips from both shows along with UK's Top of The Pops
and Germany's Disco show exist on youtube and are a fun watch

The Don Kirshner produced show was called "Rock Concert" and I remember it also coming on Friday nights. That and Midnight Special catered to you a younger audience than the daytime talk/variety shows in the 70s. I also remember a syndicated show from the U.K. called "Supersonic". It came on Saturday mornings in Detroit on WXYZ Channel 7. The Supremes appeared and performed "He's My Man".

[gman]

I've seen clips from Supersonic, but never the Supremes....didn't they go for the teeny bopper set? A lot of the UK early 70's shows frequently featured glam rock stars that were burning up the UK and Euro charts, but had very limited success here in the USA.
T.Rex, Sweet and even Detroit's own hard rocking hellcat and one of my personal favorites...Suzi Quatro!

[Bluebrock]

I've seen clips from Supersonic, but never the Supremes....didn't they go for the teeny bopper set? A lot of the UK early 70's shows frequently featured glam rock stars that were burning up the UK and Euro charts, but had very limited success here in the USA.
T.Rex, Sweet and even Detroit's own hard rocking hellcat and one of my personal favorites...Suzi Quatro!
It was indeed aimed at the teen market, but Marv is correct. The Supremes did indeed appear on Supersonic and performed "he's my man". I thought it was a strange choice of tv show for the girls to perform on. They also did "he's my man" on top of the pops around the same time, but despite a lot of airplay on radio including a record of the week on the Tony Blackburn's radio 1 show it stalled at around no.65. Cannot remember the exact position, but it was a major disappointment.

[luckyluckyme]

Some Supersonic episode were repackaged for the U.S. under a most unusual title:

https://www.modcinema.com/categories/4-music-doc/1142-twiggy-s-jukebox-tv-1979-dvd

[marv2]

I've seen clips from Supersonic, but never the Supremes....didn't they go for the teeny bopper set? A lot of the UK early 70's shows frequently featured glam rock stars that were burning up the UK and Euro charts, but had very limited success here in the USA.
T.Rex, Sweet and even Detroit's own hard rocking hellcat and one of my personal favorites...Suzi Quatro!

I thought the production was a bit over the top. They had the Supremes singing while all of this glitter and balloons were falling all around them. It was fun and distracting at the same time.

[marv2]

Some Supersonic episode were repackaged for the U.S. under a most unusual title:

https://www.modcinema.com/categories/4-music-doc/1142-twiggy-s-jukebox-tv-1979-dvd

I notice in the description that he says the show was seen throughout the U.S. in 1978-79 which may be true for some U.S. markets. However, we saw it in 1975-76 in Detroit. I was away in college in 1978-79 and never saw that show again.