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grapevine
08-11-2010, 06:47 PM
...I just thought I'd copy over some of the posts from the Old Forum...


Posted on Monday, January 04, 2010 - 3:05 pm:
Hey Folks,

As most of you know, I can't physically be on every website and forum, so as much as I love ol' SDF, the best way to get answers from me - or whomever is the best person - is to use the email address classic.motown@umusic.com (classic.motown@umusic.com) . Everyone is welcome to use it.

While I'm here, however... Vols. 12A & 12B were unexpectedly yet unavoidably delayed due to licensing issues. I hope these will be resolved soon.


Harry Weinger


Posted on Monday, February 22, 2010 - 7:37 pm:

Folks, I appreciate everyone waiting for and wanting the final volumes of the series - so do I. As much we plan for every contingency, some things pop up unexpectedly. While I don't have a happy update as of today, I do expect these to get out there this year.

Note that I can't be on every forum, so for Motown and/or Select questions & comments, contact classic.motown@umusic.com (classic.motown@umusic.com) - I see every email there. Any reply from there can be posted.

Harry Weinger


Posted on Sunday, June 20, 2010 - 5:26 am:

I have been told that the delay is due to licencing issues so read into that what you will.


Copley


Posted on Sunday, June 20, 2010 - 6:52 pm:

That's about the size of it, Copley. But I think things are underway again now, and it's to be hoped we shall see those last two volumes before long ...


Keith Hughes


...let's hope the wait will be over soon...


:)

tamla617
08-17-2010, 11:20 AM
yeah,where is it? we are a year (ish)over due

grapevine
08-19-2010, 07:42 AM
...nearer 2 (ish) years overdue...!

...TCMS11b was realeased January 2008

:)

marxthespot
08-20-2010, 12:31 PM
I've heard that the "buzz" about the delay due to licensing has do with Stevie Wonder and the inclusion of his singles from "Music of My Mind" & "Talking Book." These are the first recordings from when he renegotiated his contract in 1972 whereby he completely owns all of his masters from that point forward.

jillfoster
08-20-2010, 01:40 PM
I say they just go ahead and put it out, and put a disclaimer in the first page of the booklet: "Unfortunately, Stevie Wonder's singles from 1972 were unable to be included, because Stevie decided to be a prick and not let us include them."

theboyfromxtown
08-20-2010, 01:52 PM
Marxthespot

Can you tell us the source of the "buzz" and how reliable it is?

paulo
08-20-2010, 02:15 PM
Reminds my of when Stevie ordered MOTOWN return all the ANTHOLOGY albums that had been pressed up and shipped... They were all re-pressed with the new title LOOKING BACK. Same art work etc, but, of course, he had his new contract and could dictate this sort of diva whim. Must have cost MOTOWN a fortune. A lot of the pressed Anthology albums ended up in the UK i remember. Do a disclaimer, as suggested, as with the early RARE EARTH label singles. Just get the thing out. I wouldnt be playing those tracks anyway. AND they are not Detroit tracks but New York. Just my point of view..Paulo

midnight johnny
08-20-2010, 02:19 PM
I say they just go ahead and put it out, and put a disclaimer in the first page of the booklet: "Unfortunately, Stevie Wonder's singles from 1972 were unable to be included, because Stevie decided to be a prick and not let us include them."

True class.

theboyfromxtown
08-20-2010, 02:58 PM
Jill and Johnny.....PLEASE not in front of the children! LOL



Now young Paulo - How do you tell what is not a Detroit recording?

And BTW, can you check out youtube for ptownmotowndj, you ought to subscribe as well.


Start here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdji_tWgMUc

paulo
08-20-2010, 03:09 PM
I WILL, I WILL!!!!!!! Sorry for the rant about Sir Stevie, But I recall old interviews where he was inconsed in NYC recording those tracks. OF COURSE, i wouldnt know what was recorded in Detroit or elsewhere. Thats the fun of being a MOTOWN addict, and the things this forum throws up. Should I rephrase that? throwing up??.lol Paulo XXXX

paulo
08-20-2010, 03:10 PM
Great great Vid....

theboyfromxtown
08-20-2010, 03:24 PM
Paulo...I hope you realise that Midnight Johnny is putting a lot of hard work into remixing these songs so you can enjoy them for longer PLUS there is a visual video.....you're supposed to comment on his video AND his remix as well. Now start again before he comes down here and gets mad at you. LOL

And don't forget to subscribe....

144man
08-20-2010, 06:04 PM
Who owns the tracks produced by Jerry Ross?

paulo
08-20-2010, 06:34 PM
Jon....Yes Boss,,,Sorry Boss......xxxx

jillfoster
08-21-2010, 01:36 AM
True class.

Class simply means you screw people over with a smile. so what. If class means you can sit there tight lipped while someone acts like a willful little boy, holding the final set of a legendary music series hostage..... then you can damn well keep it, i'd rather be classless.

tamla617
08-21-2010, 10:03 PM
i dont care how good you are (the singer,song writer,arranger, producer etc etc)you're only there 'cos the public put you there, get your act together,(if its who i think it is) you've made enough you'll never ever have the (money wise) rainy days we're getting or going to get,so sort your ego out and get the music out to the people who put you there.thats it in a nut shell.

jillfoster
08-22-2010, 12:27 AM
Amen, tamla617... and it's not as if wer'e talking about some rare song, or some outtake he doesn't think is up to snuff. It's songs everyone has heard a billion freakin times.

tamla617
08-22-2010, 10:14 AM
jillfoster
lol,couldnt put it better,well i tried!

wichmanne
08-23-2010, 05:00 AM
tamla617 and jill,

I would also love for the TCMS12 sets to come out. But, if the delay is due to Stevie Wonder, then I have some sympathy.

If he hadn't stipulated the 1971 contract in the way he did, then every Motown compilation since the 70s would have had Superstition on it (plus Sir Duke and I Wish and....). I think it befits the status of the post-1971 Stevie recordings that they only appear where Stevie sees fit. He did allow them to go on the Hitsville boxes for example. I think he was right to prevent them appearing on "Motown Chartbusters" and all the hundreds of compilations that followed.

So, leave Stevie alone.

That said, TCMS is special and the Music Of My Mind/Talking Book singles should be on there. Come on Stevie....

Ed

paulo
08-23-2010, 01:33 PM
I WONDERED where this was going.LOL.

tamla617
08-23-2010, 05:03 PM
i'm not bothered what we didnt get because a contract was signed.he did it to get his music out there the way he wanted his music to sound and earn more money for himself,nothing wrong with any of it so far.stevie's got to bite the bullet and tell his brief to get the paperwork sorted out.or leave his stuff off,not a great way to do things but i'd rather have vol12 with his missing than no vol 12 at all
no sympathy here.i stick by my original post

rovereab
08-23-2010, 05:57 PM
Strange that Superstition and You Are The Sunshine were included in the UK Motown Chartbusters vol 8

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Motown-Chartbusters-Vol-8-Various-Artists/dp/B0000252W7/ref=pd_sim_m_h__1

theboyfromxtown
08-23-2010, 06:28 PM
Eamonn

There are different rules for different countries. Have a thought for us poor professionals who would be out of a job if politicians made sensible decisions.

paul_nixon
08-23-2010, 06:57 PM
Was gonna say what's wrong with a track appearing on Motown Chartbusters it was OK for over 150 other songs

psychedelic jacques
11-28-2010, 06:46 AM
Any updates? Has Mr Weinger spoken about the delays or a potential ETA in any of the interviews he has given recently?

I do think it would be good PR, given the level of interest in this series from Soulful Detroit members, if Mr Weinger could spare a moment to post an update here, perhaps explaining the reasons for the delay in a little more detail. I wouldn't expect him to disclose anything 'sensitive', but, given that we form part of the market for this release, that information could also help trigger a debate on whether consumers would prefer to have the set released without the problem issues resolved, or put to rest at volume 11, which in turn might be useful for the people at UME to know.

honest man
11-28-2010, 07:15 AM
hey great minds think alike. i've been searching for motown singles all morning, where they carry on from 1971,no luck, can;t see vol 12 happening somehow, not to bothered quite happy to complete at 11a, just need to know,i remember on the old forum someone posted what they thought would be the carry on singles. could someone post this tracklist again, grapevine, ha,thank you and cheers.

paulo
11-28-2010, 05:34 PM
I posted on a similar thread. The Stevie Wonder re-issue C.D.s sound like SHIT over the vinyl.I am never going to buy another Wonder album C.D. ever. When, and IF, volumes 11a n B turn up, im sure the sound quality will be just as bad. Put he damn things out WITHOUT the Wonder stuff. You did it with the early Rare Earth singles, and did as disclaimer.Do it now, then maybe HE wont be such a f.....g DIVA..Paulo XXXX

jobeterob
11-28-2010, 05:38 PM
Is it really Stevie Wonder that is causing the delay? Has this been confirmed? And yes...........Stevie can be difficult and diva like.

copley
11-28-2010, 05:56 PM
From Harry to me on 29th Oct 2010 and subsequently posted on Motown Treasures.

They are not abandoned, they are in limbo. I hate to say its over, as we did promise these last two and in fact, Vol. 12A was nearly completed before we were stopped by an artist approval process that is taking a VERY long time to get through. At some point we may need to decide how much longer we can wait.


I doubt very much that the delay is being caused by Stevie. Much more likely due to licensing problems with Rare Earth tracks.

paulo
11-28-2010, 06:02 PM
Point taken...PAULO xxxx

tamla617
11-28-2010, 07:08 PM
i can do without rare earth (is that the group or label btw) tracks aswell.i'm starting to wonder if i can do without the whole vol 12!i know i'll buy it really,we all will and hipo know's it too.

copley
11-28-2010, 07:31 PM
Rare Earth the label.

gordy_hunk
11-29-2010, 07:06 AM
There is far too much of opinions being thrown about for me to believe. Until I see a post from HW, Ralph or Russ, or Keith Hughes, I'll just dismiss comments from people who believe that they know the real truth about what's going on.

jobeterob
11-29-2010, 03:40 PM
Tamla's comment is a wise one; this market is small; it is smaller for the final year and the troubles they are having hurt the marketing and will lose them some sales.

If they are going to issue it, which doesn't sound hopeful from the comment above, skip Rare Earth or Superstition or whoever or whatever it is; who needs another Superstition and so what if we don't get some Rare Earth, group or label single; "asterisk" it and get it out while a few people care.

keith_hughes
11-30-2010, 11:35 AM
gordy_hunk: Harry and I discussed the issue very recently, and sad to relate, there is no change in the position of affairs.

jobeterob: I (we) hear what you say, but this *IS* "The Complete Motown Singles 1959-1972", and it will only be done once: an official archive of the entire legacy, as covered by the title. The hand of history lies heavily upon us.

To The World: stay healthy, eat plenty of fruit and take lots of exercise. It'll all be public domain in Europe, in 2022!

/k

jobeterob
11-30-2010, 12:26 PM
I agree with Keith's comment that "it is history" so perhaps this is one chance that has to be passed up if it can't be done right.

gordy_hunk
11-30-2010, 05:44 PM
thanks for the clarification Keith - as always you are a legend - and what you don't know about what's going on ... no one else does. All your efforts are greatly appreciated.

paulo
11-30-2010, 06:38 PM
2022! Great. me dead and buried. Bit like Detroit. Great. Probably wont see Marvelettes 2, Blinky etc either at this rate. Oh, but CAN get another copy of BABY LOVE, my 145th, on that new Christmas compilation...Paulo XXXX

marxthespot
12-01-2010, 09:19 PM
It may not be Stevie Wonder holding up the proceedings, but the 1972 Copyright Act that went into effect on February 15, 1972. It stipulates that music physically recorded before that date can be used without permission from the copyright holder....Music physically recorded on or after that date requires the permission of the copyright holder before it can be used by another party. This is a very basic summary of the Act. The link below has all the head-spinning details!

Considering that in 1972, Motown was licensing a lot of outside artists for release, plus the diversity and relatively large numbers of artists directly signed, the individual separation agreements for some may have given the artists copyrights to their masters. It is probably a logistic nightmare trying to track down the current copyright holders and get their permission for many of the tracks...

I'll bet HW wished they had stopped at 1971!!

Music copyright info.....
http://wapedia.mobi/en/Wikipedia:Public_domain?t=8.

tamla617
12-02-2010, 05:00 PM
marxthespot
thanks for that info.if thats correct looks like you've hit the nail on the head.and the delays are only going to go on and on.

Amithesameboy
12-19-2010, 11:29 AM
It may not be Stevie Wonder holding up the proceedings, but the 1972 Copyright Act that went into effect on February 15, 1972. It stipulates that music physically recorded before that date can be used without permission from the copyright holder....Music physically recorded on or after that date requires the permission of the copyright holder before it can be used by another party. This is a very basic summary of the Act. The link below has all the head-spinning details!

Considering that in 1972, Motown was licensing a lot of outside artists for release, plus the diversity and relatively large numbers of artists directly signed, the individual separation agreements for some may have given the artists copyrights to
their masters. It is probably a logistic nightmare trying to track down the current copyright holders and get their permission for many of the tracks...

I'll bet HW wished they had stopped at 1971!!

Music copyright info.....
http://wapedia.mobi/en/Wikipedia:Public_domain?t=8.

Not sure about this. There have been literally thousands of re-issue CDs released that feature post 1972 music. Why would this Act be so challenging for this release ?

grapevine
03-19-2011, 06:25 AM
...I'd like to say ...I've just had news that the TCMS Vols 12a & 12b are finally being released ...but I can't ...and that saddens me......the last Volume ...11b ...came out in January ...2008...!!!

:)

copley
03-19-2011, 06:39 AM
Well Grape, you know the reason for the delay and why it may never happen. I've posted HW's responses often enough here & on MT.