Motown Dropped The Ball

[sup_fan]

Been listening to a couple of my fav albums yet they didn't chart well at all. Made me wonder what the heck was going on - did Motown promotions department go to sleep? Was berry not wanting it to do well?

The Boss - how did this only get to #19 or so?!?! amazing single and should have done much better. IMO it seems as powerful as any charting song in the summer of 79. I remember reading in Berry's book how Motown was really in the red ink during this time. sure Diana was trying to break free but seems like an idiotic move to tank [[relatively) her album and single simply as retribution.

Nature Planned It lp - i'm guessing that since the Tops were already on their way out that the promotion dept just didn't bother. Great set. maybe not quite as wonderful as Still Water but still very solid.

Too Many Fish In Sea & Danger Heartache Dead Ahead - obviously Motown was focusing on the Sups launch. but the 64/65 output from the Marvelettes is strong. these could easily have been compiled into a album.

and i'm sure there are many more!

[daviddh]

I think where Diana was concerned , she was kind of out of sight at times in the 70s.
we used to see the supremes all the time on tv but BG kept Diana out of sight for almost a year. later , other than promoting Lady film she was raely on Mike Douglas, Merv Or Dinah. mostly she did a few Tonight show appearances but mostly , when she did ,she performed Lady Is A Tramp. or some other standard and usually did not perform her hit singles. I think this hurt her record sales. even on Bob Hope she performed Ant No Mountain rather than the new single Upside Down, which I thought was strange. but there were also times when I think Motown dropped the ball and did not get enough milaege out of an album. In 76, Dianas lp DR was a hit and Motown issued One Love In My lifetime. rather than let the lp gain from its success Motown releases the Hits lp on top of the album, cutting the studio lp shelf life in my opinion. I would have held the Hits lp until Christmas especially since when would not get BIM for almost a year. as usual with Motown it was all or nothing.

[bradsupremes]

How did "I'll Keep Holding On" not chart higher? I know by mid-65, Motown was full swing behind the Supremes, but this is my favorite Marvelettes single and one of the best examples of the classic Motown Sound. It's a roaring powerhouse track. It deserved to chart much higher and I bet if Motown pushed it a little more it could have easily gone top 10.

[RanRan79]

One of the ones I question is Martha and the Vandellas "What Am I Going to Do Without Your Love". Maybe not a surprise that it didn't chart higher than it's pop position at #71, but nothing on the r&b chart at all? That seems unacceptable to me. I wonder if Motown realized that they miss stepped with that one and gave the next release "I'm Ready For Love" an extra push.

[sup_fan]

I think the marvelettes r def underrated during 64-66. I'll Keep Holding On, too many fish and Danger would have made great anchors to an lp

As for What Am I Gonna Do I think the song structure needs some work. They only sing the chorus a couple times and the song seems to lack direction. But Love MakesMe Do and My Baby Loves Me are IMO totally wasted. They should have each been a stand alone A side. Two hits on one single that cannibalized each other.

[TomatoTom123]

Ooh, Motown and that damn ball... there are probably loads of examples but sup_fan you are so right with The Marvelettes' "Too Many Fish In The Sea"... such a cracking tune and yet a mere moderate hit. Also The Velvelettes with "Lonely, Lonely Girl Am I" and "A Bird In The Hand"...! Of course Motown was in full Supremes swing at this point so what can you expect? :)

[sup_fan]

Good call on the Velvelettes! I liked the group and am only marginally familiar w their catalog. I've always felt they were so familiar to the Vandellas.

[bradsupremes]

If we really want to talk about Motown dropping the ball then what about just about every single on Kim Weston. "Take Me In Your Arms," "Helpless," "A Little More Love." I always felt Kim Weston could have easily taken Mary Wells' place as the top solo female act on the label. I know Motown was fueling the Supremes, but if Motown could have given promotion to Stevie, Marvin, Four Tops, Smokey & Miracles, and Temptations; why couldn't they have done the same for some of the female artists. Motown could have pushed a few of Brenda and Kim's singles. They could have a couple of hits. Their singles were definitely top of the charts worthy.

[RanRan79]

If we really want to talk about Motown dropping the ball then what about just about every single on Kim Weston. "Take Me In Your Arms," "Helpless," "A Little More Love." I always felt Kim Weston could have easily taken Mary Wells' place as the top solo female act on the label. I know Motown was fueling the Supremes, but if Motown could have given promotion to Stevie, Marvin, Four Tops, Smokey & Miracles, and Temptations; why couldn't they have done the same for some of the female artists. Motown could have pushed a few of Brenda and Kim's singles. They could have a couple of hits. Their singles were definitely top of the charts worthy.

Kim was fantastic, but I think Brenda was really the one who should have been the top female soloist after Mary left. I think she was the total package. She had a star quality that I think Kim lacked. So for Brenda to never even have one top 10 hit on the r&b or pop chart during her Motown tenure, I would definitely categorize that as Motown dropping the ball.

[marybrewster]

The Boss - how did this only get to #19 or so?!?! amazing single and should have done much better. IMO it seems as powerful as any charting song in the summer of 79.

Disco was dead by '79.

[copley]

I think the marvelettes r def underrated during 64-66. I'll Keep Holding On, too many fish and Danger would have made great anchors to an lp

As for What Am I Gonna Do I think the song structure needs some work. They only sing the chorus a couple times and the song seems to lack direction. But Love MakesMe Do and My Baby Loves Me are IMO totally wasted. They should have each been a stand alone A side. Two hits on one single that cannibalized each other.

I think that you mean "You've Been in Love Too Long"/
"Love [[Makes Me Do Foolish Things)". "My Baby Loves Me" was the follow up.

[RanRan79]

The Boss - how did this only get to #19 or so?!?! amazing single and should have done much better. IMO it seems as powerful as any charting song in the summer of 79.

Disco was dead by '79.

It was on it's way out, but it wasn't dead. Donna Summer released her Bad Girls album that year which hit number one across the board and was multi platinum. And IMO The Boss was a better set of music. But disco was still comfortable on the charts and selling out of stores.

So what happened to The Boss? Donna Summer. I think Bad Girls sucked up all the thunder, being released a month prior to Boss. Diana's album is released along with the title single and "Hot Stuff" is number one. And then "Bad Girls" is number one. And Diana doesn't see another radio single until later in the year, at the same time that Donna is releasing yet another hit single- her third- from Bad Girls. In the clubs Diana was just as fire as Donna or any other disco diva. But on radio and in the stores it seems people were opting for Donna over Diana, whatever their reasons were. A shame I think, because as I said before, I think song for song Diana had the better album.

So where does Motown come in? I think they had a responsibility to promote the album and they didn't, not to their fullest capabilities. How much television did Diana do during that time? How are there only two radio singles released with so much of a time span between the two? Perhaps if Motown had pushed the album full throttle we'd be discussing the battle of the disco divas: the summer Donna Summer and Diana Ross ruled music.

[reese]

.

So where does Motown come in? I think they had a responsibility to promote the album and they didn't, not to their fullest capabilities. How much television did Diana do during that time? How are there only two radio singles released with so much of a time span between the two? Perhaps if Motown had pushed the album full throttle we'd be discussing the battle of the disco divas: the summer Donna Summer and Diana Ross ruled music.

The only TV appearances I remember in THE BOSS era are when Diana hosted the Tonight Show during the summer of 1979. And later, she sang the title track while on the Big Apple float in the Thanksgiving Day parade. But as written before, Diana didn't do a lot of tv during the 70s. At least one Diana bio says Motown pulled back promotion on THE BOSS because Diana had opened her own offices and starting doing some things for herself, which wasn't received well.

I definitely think another single could have been lifted from the album. But I don't think Motown US was into that. Even with a smash album like "diana," only two singles were released, when they definitely could have put out a third.

[Thornton]

The Marvelettes were HOT in late '64-'65. It's a shame they were overlooked. My Motown mixes are always heavy with their material from that era.

[sup_fan]

agree - they did some really strong tracks and I think did a fine job of "moving out" of the girl group/teeny bopper image. Even prior to Don't Mess With Bill.

I've done a pseudo album using these singles, b sides and some of the unreleased tracks from this time.

[sup_fan]

that's sort of my whole point. In Berry's autobiography he talks about what financial troubles the company was in by 1980 or so. and then mentions how great it was to have a wave of hot albums from Diana [[her 1980 chic album), Commodores and smokey. But had they been better promoting their prior PRIOR to 1980 perhaps they wouldn't have been in the red ink as much.

Also it's interesting that Berry had everything lined up post-Lady in case the movie flopped. Touch Me was ready and waiting in case the movie failed. But there was nothing ready post Mahogany or Wiz. poor career management!

[RanRan79]

The only TV appearances I remember in THE BOSS era are when Diana hosted the Tonight Show during the summer of 1979. And later, she sang the title track while on the Big Apple float in the Thanksgiving Day parade. But as written before, Diana didn't do a lot of tv during the 70s. At least one Diana bio says Motown pulled back promotion on THE BOSS because Diana had opened her own offices and starting doing some things for herself, which wasn't received well.

I definitely think another single could have been lifted from the album. But I don't think Motown US was into that. Even with a smash album like "diana," only two singles were released, when they definitely could have put out a third.

I don't know why "No One Gets the Prize" wasn't released as the second single once "The Boss" peaked. That song is tough and could've been a hit outside of the club, where it was big.

[Motown Eddie]

One of the ones I question is Martha and the Vandellas "What Am I Going to Do Without Your Love". Maybe not a surprise that it didn't chart higher than it's pop position at #71, but nothing on the r&b chart at all? That seems unacceptable to me. I wonder if Motown realized that they miss stepped with that one and gave the next release "I'm Ready For Love" an extra push.

I feel that "What Am I Going To Do Without Your Love" was the wrong choice for the a-side of a Martha & the Vandellas single. While the song had a great vocal from Martha Reeves [[as always) the song does not have a strong enough "hook" to be a big hit single. IMHO the song's b-side, "Go Ahead And Laugh", would've had more potential at radio and retail. Good thing that Martha & Co. rebounded with "I'm Ready For Love", "Jimmy Mack" & "Honey Chile".

[RanRan79]

agree - they did some really strong tracks and I think did a fine job of "moving out" of the girl group/teeny bopper image. Even prior to Don't Mess With Bill.

I've done a pseudo album using these singles, b sides and some of the unreleased tracks from this time.

The Marvelettes had the ball dropped on them big time. No album in two years? There had to be more to it than a push for the Supremes. Wanda was married to a Miracle who also happened to be Smokey's cousin in law. Was she not in Smokey's ear?

[Motown Eddie]

The only TV appearances I remember in THE BOSS era are when Diana hosted the Tonight Show during the summer of 1979. And later, she sang the title track while on the Big Apple float in the Thanksgiving Day parade. But as written before, Diana didn't do a lot of tv during the 70s. At least one Diana bio says Motown pulled back promotion on THE BOSS because Diana had opened her own offices and starting doing some things for herself, which wasn't received well.

I definitely think another single could have been lifted from the album. But I don't think Motown US was into that. Even with a smash album like "diana," only two singles were released, when they definitely could have put out a third.

There was a third single release from the diana album, "My Old Piano". And if Motown pulled promotion for Diana's The Boss LP, that's truly a case where the company dropped the ball big time. The company needed all the hit albums they could get in 1979-1980.

[RanRan79]

Also it's interesting that Berry had everything lined up post-Lady in case the movie flopped. Touch Me was ready and waiting in case the movie failed. But there was nothing ready post Mahogany or Wiz. poor career management!

Well Lady was the first movie. No one knew how well it would do, so it was good business to have something waiting in case of failure. By the time she did Mahogany and Wiz she was a bonafide solo superstar, so there was no "good" reason to think either of those projects would fail. And she did get a hit song out of Mahogany and then followed the movie up with a HUGE hit, successful album and a stage show that made it to Broadway, breaking records and earning a special Tony. The Boss was the followup to the Wiz but if the label was pissed about something and chose to give the project halfhearted attention, well it didn't matter what the follow up to the Wiz would have been, Motown wouldn't have given it the attention it deserved. One of the things I think the label suffered from was sometimes going against it's own interests [[i.e money to be made) in order to prove a point to an artist that the label was bigger than the artist.

[RanRan79]

I feel that "What Am I Going To Do Without Your Love" was the wrong choice for the a-side of a Martha & the Vandellas single. While the song had a great vocal from Martha Reeves [[as always) the song does not have a strong enough "hook" to be a big hit single. IMHO the song's b-side, "Go Ahead And Laugh", would've had more potential at radio and retail. Good thing that Martha & Co. rebounded with "I'm Ready For Love", "Jimmy Mack" & "Honey Chile".

Perhaps, but no charting on the r&b chart? Maybe the song wouldn't have put up numbers like the other 1966 and 67 Martha and Vandellas singles, but no chart at all? Just seems weird to me.

I once told Martha that I thought "Go Ahead and Laugh" was the vocal performance of her career. I waver on that now, but still think she killed it.

[reese]

There was a third single release from the diana album, "My Old Piano".


Yes, but it wasn't released in the US during the time that the "diana" album was hot. After UPSIDE DOWN and I'M COMING OUT, Motown released IT'S MY TURN and other singles from her TO LOVE AGAIN album.

They didn't release MY OLD PIANO in the US until Diana had left the company in 1981, and issued it in a picture sleeve advertising it as a release from ALL THE GREAT HITS.

[reese]

The Marvelettes had the ball dropped on them big time. No album in two years? There had to be more to it than a push for the Supremes. Wanda was married to a Miracle who also happened to be Smokey's cousin in law. Was she not in Smokey's ear?

If you look at their chart positions, the Marvelettes had already started slipping by 1962, when STRANGE I KNOW only reached the Top 50. After that, although their releases did well on the R&B chart, their pop placings weren't great at all. They rebounded in 1964, with TOO MANY FISH IN THE SEA hitting the Top 30.

One would think that this would have prompted a follow-up with Gladys on lead. But the next release [[I'LL KEEP HOLDING ON) started the Wanda era, even though her previous only full lead on an A-side [[YOU'RE MY REMEDY) had only done so-so. Considering none of their albums charted until 1966's GREATEST HITS, I can see why no album was released.

[RanRan79]

If you look at their chart positions, the Marvelettes had already started slipping by 1962, when STRANGE I KNOW only reached the Top 50. After that, although their releases did well on the R&B chart, their pop placings weren't great at all. They rebounded in 1964, with TOO MANY FISH IN THE SEA hitting the Top 30.

One would think that this would have prompted a follow-up with Gladys on lead. But the next release [[I'LL KEEP HOLDING ON) started the Wanda era, even though her previous only full lead on an A-side [[YOU'RE MY REMEDY) had only done so-so. Considering none of their albums charted until 1966's GREATEST HITS, I can see why no album was released.

Maybe Wanda did get into Smokey's ear, thus we have the Wanda era.;)

[Boogiedown]

It was on it's way out, but it wasn't dead. Donna Summer released her Bad Girls album that year which hit number one across the board and was multi platinum. And IMO The Boss was a better set of music. But disco was still comfortable on the charts and selling out of stores.

So what happened to The Boss? Donna Summer. I think Bad Girls sucked up all the thunder, being released a month prior to Boss. Diana's album is released along with the title single and "Hot Stuff" is number one. And then "Bad Girls" is number one. And Diana doesn't see another radio single until later in the year, at the same time that Donna is releasing yet another hit single- her third- from Bad Girls. In the clubs Diana was just as fire as Donna or any other disco diva. But on radio and in the stores it seems people were opting for Donna over Diana, whatever their reasons were. A shame I think, because as I said before, I think song for song Diana had the better album.

So where does Motown come in? I think they had a responsibility to promote the album and they didn't, not to their fullest capabilities. How much television did Diana do during that time? How are there only two radio singles released with so much of a time span between the two? Perhaps if Motown had pushed the album full throttle we'd be discussing the battle of the disco divas: the summer Donna Summer and Diana Ross ruled music.

I mostly agree with this. Disco was at its saturation point in 1979, couldn't have gotten any bigger. The Top 40 stations though had generally never liked disco and only played it reluctantly , and in order to maintain a blend of music and fulfill obligations to so many labels with such a variety of performers , they wouldn't/couldn't play every disco song no matter how deserving. [[ A lot of brilliant but forever 'secret' disco songs out there) They had to maintain a balanced playlist of rock, disco, soul, country , MOR etc. . I agree that Donna had largely displaced Diana Ross as the current diva favorite , but a large constituency remained forever loyal to their Miss Ross and amongst much competition, THE BOSS managed to work in a turn at #1 on the disco chart , and rightly so. But radio didn't grant it the same justice, with so many ladies [[ and others) singing disco, there just wasn't room.
Motown did a lot of things right for THE BOSS though, I think , including creating a 12" remix and selling it commercially in the stores, something they dropped the ball on with much of their disco product [[ any Supremes 12" remixes created?:mad: Eddie Kendricks?? :mad:).

Plus about then Diana Ross was a tad older and a mother of youngins and I don't think she was in the right space in her life to aggressively wrestle against the competing ladies with a disco queen image.

[sansradio]

I concur with all of you who consider THE BOSS as "a lost ball in the high weeds." It's arguably Diana's finest work as a soul singer. Donna Summer absolutely ruled the disco roost that year, though, and Miss Ross's fine effort was considered something of an also-ran outside of her faithful fan base.

To wit: I recall a "Right On!" magazine from that summer. The lead story was something like "Who's Sizzling and Who's Fizzling?" [[in music, TV, movies, etc.) The "sizzler" got a big pic with an inset of the "fizzler" on the right of the frame. When it came to female singers...you guessed it. Diana got the tiny pic inside Donna's bigger one. I remember being a slightly miffed 8-year-old over it. So, yeah, a major mishandling of a great album on Motown's part.

[Motown Eddie]

I mostly agree with this. Disco was at its saturation point in 1979, couldn't have gotten any bigger. The Top 40 stations though had generally never liked disco and only played it reluctantly , and in order to maintain a blend of music and fulfill obligations to so many labels with such a variety of performers , they wouldn't/couldn't play every disco song no matter how deserving. [[ A lot of brilliant but forever 'secret' disco songs out there) They had to maintain a balanced playlist of rock, disco, soul, country , MOR etc. . I agree that Donna had largely displaced Diana Ross as the current diva favorite , but a large constituency remained forever loyal to their Miss Ross and amongst much competition, THE BOSS managed to work in a turn at #1 on the disco chart , and rightly so. But radio didn't grant it the same justice, with so many ladies [[ and others) singing disco, there just wasn't room.
Motown did a lot of things right for THE BOSS though, I think , including creating a 12" remix and selling it commercially in the stores, something they dropped the ball on with much of their disco product [[ any Supremes 12" remixes created?:mad: Eddie Kendricks?? :mad:).

Plus about then Diana Ross was a tad older and a mother of youngins and I don't think she was in the right space in her life to aggressively wrestle against the competing ladies with a disco queen image.

Good points BoogieDown. Something I'd like to add; Diana Ross did not dedicate herself to Disco Music the way that Donna Summer & Gloria Gaynor did. While she had "Love Hangover" in 1976, she moved on to a variety of styles before returning to Disco with The Boss LP. Diana would get her big Disco album with diana in 1980 [[just about the time that Disco was going out of fashion).

[Boogiedown]

Good points BoogieDown. Something I'd like to add; Diana Ross did not dedicate herself to Disco Music the way that Donna Summer & Gloria Gaynor did. While she had "Love Hangover" in 1976, she moved on to a variety of styles before returning to Disco with The Boss LP. Diana would get her big Disco album with diana in 1980 [[just about the time that Disco was going out of fashion).

Yes but both Donna and Gloria would argue that they weren't dedicated to disco either . Disco wound up defining them because as newcomers, they both came along at the right time and happened to be in the right place [[or wrong time/ wrong place depending on who's arguing it:p) to hone in on it . Obviously Diana had a whole career of music behind her when disco came along and she wasn't out trying to establish a name for herself. It's actually remarkable how well Diana fit in. And it's quite impressive the way she wound up delivering a few of the all time greats of the disco era. :cool:
And while Diana continued being musically diverse as you say Eddie, don't forget there was this disco release between LOVE HANGOVER and THE BOSS :):


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOgei80XNK4


oh to save someone the trouble of having to correct me, that's right, there was an Eddie Kendricks 12" release.
http://pictures1.kyozou.com/pictures/_30/29854/29853161.jpg
but there were others as deserving

[RanRan79]

All interesting point about The Boss. Can't say I disagree with much of it. Good observations.

Another dropped ball question: Jackie Jackson's album. What was the deal here? Both Michael and Jermaine were able to capitalize on their fan base's fanaticism for anything J5 related, but what happened with Jackie's album? Was it Motown's fault or did the public not care? Of their debut solo efforts I actually prefer Jackie's album to Michael's and Jermaine's.

[reese]

To wit: I recall a "Right On!" magazine from that summer. The lead story was something like "Who's Sizzling and Who's Fizzling?" [[in music, TV, movies, etc.) The "sizzler" got a big pic with an inset of the "fizzler" on the right of the frame. When it came to female singers...you guessed it. Diana got the tiny pic inside Donna's bigger one. I remember being a slightly miffed 8-year-old over it. So, yeah, a major mishandling of a great album on Motown's part.

I remember that issue. I think Diana's photo featured her wearing a white pillbox hat. The issue came out not long before THE BOSS was released.

Funny, years later, RIGHT ON! did a similar issue. But this time, Diana was positioned against Whitney Houston. I guess Donna had fizzled. :)

[sup_fan]

Another good example Ran. I'd also say though that Motown dropped the ball w Jermaine too. He had a few hits but clearly they weren't interested in him as a soloist

[PeaceNHarmony]

Seems like Motown dropped hella balls. Somebody shoulda got Berry a truss!

[RanRan79]

Another good example Ran. I'd also say though that Motown dropped the ball w Jermaine too. He had a few hits but clearly they weren't interested in him as a soloist

I never thought about it before but you might be right. Jermaine was a sporadic hit maker and his albums were sporadic successes, so in my mind I just figured he was one of the lucky ones in being supported by Motown, most likely because he was married to the boss' daughter. But now that you mention it, when exactly did Jermaine ever get a big push by the label? When his brothers left, you would think that whatever attention they were getting would now go to Jermaine alone but that didn't seem to happen. Didn't he do a lot of behind the scenes work though? Writing and producing for other acts?

[Motown Eddie]

Here's another case where Motown 'dropped the ball'; Martha Reeves & the Vandellas' 1968 single "I Can't Dance To The Music You're Playing". I'll never understand what made the Motown brass think they could release a single a-side by one of it's major acts with an incomplete lead vocal from Martha [[filled in on the chorus by Syreeta Wright). You just know that they wouldn't think about doing this kind of thing with Diana Ross & the Supremes.

[RanRan79]

Here's another case where Motown 'dropped the ball'; Martha Reeves & the Vandellas' 1968 single "I Can't Dance To The Music You're Playing". I'll never understand what made the Motown brass think they could release a single a-side by one of it's major acts with an incomplete lead vocal from Martha [[filled in on the chorus by Syreeta Wright). You just know that they wouldn't think about doing this kind of thing with Diana Ross & the Supremes.

I think the ball was dropped by not doing everything in it's power to make the song a hit. But to me the song doesn't sound like it's missing anything. Had Martha not dropped that bit of news in her book I never would've thought it was anything but complete. I first heard the song when I acquired the Live Wire singles set in 1993/94 and it was quickly one of my favorites of the group. It definitely should have been a bigger hit.

[sup_fan]

I Can't Dance is just baffling. On one hand there's Martha's version of events [[how she didn't like the lyric and protested) and then there's the version in the MRATV 50th Anniversary Singles set.

If for whatever reason there wasn't an acceptable version of martha's lead for the choruses, why didn't they just have the Andantes brought up and singing? why add another voice and an odd voice at that?

[TomatoTom123]

Oh, "I Can't Dance", I remember a whole and very fascinating thread about that song... how and why it was released without Martha's vocal... told by the song's writer and producer Deke Richards himself. Let me see if I can find it... :)

[TomatoTom123]

Oh, "I Can't Dance", I remember a whole and very fascinating thread about that song... how and why it was released without Martha's vocal... told by the song's writer and producer Deke Richards himself. Let me see if I can find it... :)

I think this is it:

https://soulfuldetroit.com/archives/3838/1748.html?1042799727

[lockhartgary]

IMO, "Needle in a Haystack" and "Too Many Fish in the Sea" should have been MUCH bigger hits.

[BayouMotownMan]

WALK IN THE NIGHT-Should have been Top Ten

MY BABY MUST BE A MAGICIAN-A lost No 1 record

T.L.C. [[TENDER LOVING CARE)-Was Top 40

SATURDAY NIGHT, SUNDAY MORNING-Top 10

GET THE CREAM OFF THE TOP-Top 10

[Levi Stubbs Tears]

I think this is it:

https://soulfuldetroit.com/archives/3838/1748.html?1042799727

Thank you for posting this - as someone who wasn't around at the time Deke posted, this made fascinating reading and I only wish there had been more.

[RanRan79]

IMO, "Needle in a Haystack" and "Too Many Fish in the Sea" should have been MUCH bigger hits.

I'm surprised "Too Many Fish" wasn't huge. It had "hit" stamped all over it.

[TomatoTom123]

Thank you for posting this - as someone who wasn't around at the time Deke posted, this made fascinating reading and I only wish there had been more.

Hey no problem LST. It is indeed a fascinating read as you say, from the producer of the song himself!!!! I can't quite remember the whole thing myself so might give it another read. :)

[TomatoTom123]

I'm surprised "Too Many Fish" wasn't huge. It had "hit" stamped all over it.

Yes, I sooooooo AGREE!!!!!!! ;)

[lockhartgary]

"Try It Baby" by Marvin Gaye. Was #15 Pop and #6 RnB. Was a rather fine effort by Mr. Gaye and should have been bigger hit.

[lockhartgary]

Yes, I sooooooo AGREE!!!!!!! ;)

So do I! I am 52 years old, have had a total hip replacement in my left hip, waiting for the other hip to get replaced and I STILL WANNA' SHIMMY WHEN I HEAR THIS SONG!!!

[TomatoTom123]

So do I! I am 52 years old, have had a total hip replacement in my left hip, waiting for the other hip to get replaced and I STILL WANNA' SHIMMY WHEN I HEAR THIS SONG!!!

Lol, gary, it certainly is irresistible! When those intro horns sound I have exactly the same problem trying to stop myself from GETTIN ON DOWN! :D

[Boogiedown]

https://soulfuldetroit.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by TomatoTom123 https://soulfuldetroit.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png [[https://soulfuldetroit.com/showthread.php?p=407916#post407916)

I think this is it:

https://soulfuldetroit.com/archives/...tml?1042799727 [[https://soulfuldetroit.com/archives/3838/1748.html?1042799727)





https://soulfuldetroit.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Levi Stubbs Tears https://soulfuldetroit.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png [[https://soulfuldetroit.com/showthread.php?p=408091#post408091)
Thank you for posting this - as someone who wasn't around at the time Deke posted, this made fascinating reading and I only wish there had been more.



Thanks from me also Tom Tom ! Great information there!

There is much to be learned around here !
another example:



RanRan79:

Another dropped ball question: Jackie Jackson's album. What was the deal here?


Jackie Jackson had a solo album! ???
Who knew??:confused:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmOcDKWLasA

[lockhartgary]

And here is the song I remember hearing from the album:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTtcKLC2Zls

[Encyclopedia Mack]

Been listening to a couple of my fav albums yet they didn't chart well at all. Made me wonder what the heck was going on - did Motown promotions department go to sleep? Was berry not wanting it to do well?

The Boss - how did this only get to #19 or so?!?! amazing single and should have done much better. IMO it seems as powerful as any charting song in the summer of 79. I remember reading in Berry's book how Motown was really in the red ink during this time. sure Diana was trying to break free but seems like an idiotic move to tank [[relatively) her album and single simply as retribution.

Nature Planned It lp - i'm guessing that since the Tops were already on their way out that the promotion dept just didn't bother. Great set. maybe not quite as wonderful as Still Water but still very solid.

Too Many Fish In Sea & Danger Heartache Dead Ahead - obviously Motown was focusing on the Sups launch. but the 64/65 output from the Marvelettes is strong. these could easily have been compiled into a album.

and i'm sure there are many more!

Motown has dropped the ball on so many levels. Not spilling publish with HDH was the beginning of the end. Now with all of this unreleased footage not being released.

[Motown Eddie]

Motown "Dropped The Ball" when these artists left the label;
1. Gladys Knight & the Pips
2. The Four Tops
3. The Jackson 5/Michael Jackson
4. The Spinners
5. The Isley Bros.

Each of these acts would go on to have big career defining hits for other companies. Now just imagine if The Jackson 5 had stayed at Motown and Michael Jackson recorded Off The Wall, Thriller, Bad & Dangerous for the company [[not to mention the other acts that left the label).

[RanRan79]

Motown "Dropped The Ball" when these artists left the label;
1. Gladys Knight & the Pips
2. The Four Tops
3. The Jackson 5/Michael Jackson
4. The Spinners
5. The Isley Bros.

Each of these acts would go on to have big career defining hits for other companies. Now just imagine if The Jackson 5 had stayed at Motown and Michael Jackson recorded Off The Wall, Thriller, Bad & Dangerous for the company [[not to mention the other acts that left the label).

Good point. I would add to that Diana Ross and Marvin Gaye. Still creating hits during the early 80s for a label other than Motown? I lay that blame at Motown's feet.

[Motown Eddie]

Good point. I would add to that Diana Ross and Marvin Gaye. Still creating hits during the early 80s for a label other than Motown? I lay that blame at Motown's feet.

You're so right RanRan! In the case of Marvin Gaye, Motown messed up when they released in In Our Lifetime without Gaye's consent [[of course, Marvin didn't help things by being "in exile" during that time). And if Motown hadn't lost so many stars [[and money) during the '70s, they could've successfully competed with the major labels for Diana Ross [[of course, this would mean giving her total control over her career and sorting out her relationship with B.G.).

[RanRan79]

You're so right RanRan! In the case of Marvin Gaye, Motown messed up when they released in In Our Lifetime without Gaye's consent [[of course, Marvin didn't help things by being "in exile" during that time). And if Motown hadn't lost so many stars [[and money) during the '70s, they could've successfully competed with the major labels for Diana Ross [[of course, this would mean giving her total control over her career and sorting out her relationship with B.G.).

I agree 100 percent Eddie. And I would add that if Motown had decided to negotiate with Ross [[some creative control, definitely control over her finances and no cheating) they may not have had to financially compete with other label offers to get her to stay. I don't think any of the artists who were there from the very early days like Ross and Gaye really ever wanted to be anywhere else but Motown and would have preferred to stay if their hands hadn't been forced.

[waynesville]

Motown like all companies - often dropped the ball. One example was Carolyn Crawford. If they had mentored her like they did Diana Ross then she would have been a huge star.
Another bad one came in the somewhat disappointing Supremes/Four Tops duet sessions. Yet....there was one absolute bomb - their cut of the Shorty Long tune 'I had a dream,' written I think by Sylvia Moy. The song needed better production, which Frank Wilson delivered, and the vocals of top stars - in this case Levi Stubbs and Jean Terrell, both of whom sung like this was something really important.
So what did Motown do? Canned it - and it never saw the light of day until 2009.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WM9QUuFsARA

[RanRan79]

Waynesville I agree 100 percent about "I Had a Dream". Levi and Jean were in their element here. Don't know what Motown was thinking sometimes.

[TomatoTom123]

Jean and Levi also tear up another of Shorty's songs, "Function At The Junction", and turn it into a funky gospel-ish party jam!!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyqIhT3lHIc&app=desktop

Also went unreleased for decades, of course... :)

[Motown Eddie]

And yet another time Motown "dropped the ball" is with Frankie Valli & the Four Seasons. The company signed the group in 1972 [[and placed them on their MoWest label). There was one LP, Chameleon, which landed a hit [[in the UK singles chart only) with "The Night". When The Seasons recorded another LP for MoWest, the label shelved the recordings and the band left Motown. Later, Frankie purchases one song from the sessions, "My Eyes Adored You", that becomes a #1 hit in 1975 and presages The Seasons 'comeback' recordings in 1975/76.

[RanRan79]

And yet another time Motown "dropped the ball" is with Frankie Valli & the Four Seasons. The company signed the group in 1972 [[and placed them on their MoWest label). There was one LP, Chameleon, which landed a hit [[in the UK singles chart only) with "The Night". When The Seasons recorded another LP for MoWest, the label shelved the recordings and the band left Motown. Later, Frankie purchases one song from the sessions, "My Eyes Adored You", that becomes a #1 hit in 1975 and presages The Seasons 'comeback' recordings in 1975/76.

Another good example Eddie!