Diana Toss Project: Jimmy Webb LP

[jobeterob]

https://dianarossproject.wordpress.com/

[PeaceNHarmony]

Another nice post from The Diana Ross Project, and thanks! Makes a nice shout-out to fan favorite Lynda Laurence as well. And I love seeing the Laura Lee ad! Interesting that Webb, also [[like the M'twn producers), felt the background vocals had to be augmented by singers other than Supremes.

[TomatoTom123]

What on earth is the Diana Toss project? LOLOL :D

[PeaceNHarmony]

What on earth is the Diana Toss project? LOLOL :D
That is funny! J-Rob meant to write 'Giana Toss', a lesser-known singer who never really made an impact!

[smallworld]

Is the MSC version of "All I Want" from the Sonny & Cher variety show in the Motown/Universal vaults? Or did they pre-record their vocals at the TV studio? I thought it was strange how they deleted the "Shampoo you" line.

[thanxal]

What on earth is the Diana Toss project? LOLOL :D
Come on Tom! Haven't you heard of Diana Toss, Mary Rilson, and Florence Mallard? The Dupremes???
Serious, I empathize with Jobeterob. I've made many a misspelling in the thread header. It should be editable!

[smallworld]

Is the MSC version of "All I Want" from the Sonny & Cher variety show in the Motown/Universal vaults? Or did they pre-record their vocals at the TV studio? I thought it was strange how they deleted the "Shampoo you" line.

[PeaceNHarmony]

Is the MSC version of "All I Want" from the Sonny & Cher variety show in the Motown/Universal vaults? Or did they pre-record their vocals at the TV studio? I thought it was strange how they deleted the "Shampoo you" line.
According to the Diana Toss Project post that performance had new vocals over the pre-existing track so each could have a lead. I think it was a great idea and probably should have been on the LP as a trio-lead.

[lakeside]

That is funny! J-Rob meant to write 'Giana Toss', a lesser-known singer who never really made an impact!

Actually, Diana Toss is another alias of Chantel Baker...for those of you 'in-the-know'.

[luke]

Don't forget Lydia Lorenz!

[PeaceNHarmony]

Actually, Diana Toss is another alias of Chantel Baker...for those of you 'in-the-know'.
Ahhh - CHANTEL! A true STAHH!

[Thornton]

I know I'm in the minority, but "Produced & Arranged by Jimmy Webb" is my favorite Jean era album. Is it perfect? Not by a long shot, but every song is unique and memorable in its own way. I think the two main mistakes with this album was having Jean sing in too high a key, and not utilizing Mary and Lynda more. To that end I would have loved to hear group lead covers of "The Girl's Song" and "MacArthur Park" on this album, cutting "I Guess I'll Miss the Man" and "Beyond Myself". Still, it's the only Jean album I regularly listen to from beginning to end. This was a really nice review.

[thanxal]

Ahhh - CHANTEL! A true STAHH!
It is against SDF law to post about CHANTAAAAAAL without a link to a screeching video. You MUST!

[nathanj06]

I used to think some fans try to convince themselves to like this hot mess. Loraine Alterman was right to put it mildly. Unmildly I will say this is the worst thing The Supremes could have gotten themselves into at that point. Too bad they didn't talk to Stevie sooner but that didn't do the trick either. Visually they looked great. Musically they were lost. A very sad ending to a very gifted singer, Jean Terrell.

[lakeside]

It is against SDF law to post about CHANTAAAAAAL without a link to a screeching video. You MUST!

Oops....my bad. Ok....you asked for it. Here is Shantel
at one of her huge arena [[parking lot) gigs. Notice the massive, wildly enthusiastic crowd!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OK_Dv43QiiM

[captainjames]

I agree with the writer on "Beyond Myself" - that was not a good song or key or place for Jean to be in.

The Best way I can explain Produced by Jimmy Webb is that is not my Favorite album by the group but I do not hate it.

I will admit my favorite song on this LP was "Once In The Morning"......"you play with this and I'll play with that." The Third verse of this song should have went to Lynda and Mary. The verse that starts with "I was hanging around wondering......"

[johnny_raven]

I will admit my favorite song on this LP was "Once In The Morning"......"you play with this and I'll play with that." The Third verse of this song should have went to Lynda and Mary. The verse that starts with "I was hanging around wondering......"

This song was about cocaine. :eek:

[PeaceNHarmony]

Oops....my bad. Ok....you asked for it. Here is Shantel
at one of her huge arena [[parking lot) gigs. Notice the massive, wildly enthusiastic crowd!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OK_Dv43QiiM

The Voice! The Mem'ries! And, the GLAMOUR! Next stop, Branson!

[RanRan79]

Not my favorite album by a long shot, but it definitely has some nice moments. It was just the wrong direction to take the group in at that point.

[jobeterob]

What on earth is the Diana Toss project? LOLOL :D

LOLOLOLOL - I only saw that right now.

What can I say? I just got back from holiday; I can't even type anymore.

[jobeterob]

If 530 Plane had been the first single, it might have had a chance.

I Guess I'll Miss the Man doesn't belong here and was a weak single even if it was a nice song.

There are several good songs but some of the overkill creating by Jean having to reach unnatural notes on the second side was unwise.

[sansradio]

Oops....my bad. Ok....you asked for it. Here is Shantel
at one of her huge arena [[parking lot) gigs. Notice the massive, wildly enthusiastic crowd!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OK_Dv43QiiM

No, she DIDN'T! I'm through.

[lakeside]

No, she DIDN'T! I'm through.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mqz2VHgCR6E

She DID! Check out why she was asked to replace Ross or Terrell. I don't remember which one...not sure Shantel remembers either...depending on which interview you listen to. Doesn't matter. She's part of Supremes history.....she said so.
Hold on to your hats....they'll leave you....well...speechless.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mqz2VHgCR6E

[thanxal]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mqz2VHgCR6E

She DID! Check out why she was asked to replace Ross or Terrell. I don't remember which one...not sure Shantel remembers either...depending on which interview you listen to. Doesn't matter. She's part of Supremes history.....she said so.
Hold on to your hats....they'll leave you....well...speechless.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mqz2VHgCR6E
I distinctly hear the Andantes in the background. And my ears don't lie!!! [[they just bleed).

[PeaceNHarmony]

Well, I guess it's time to make a MAJAH reveal. It was I, a 15 year old white guy in 1969, who was asked to be not only the new Supreme, but the lead singer. History will tell. Kinda like the 'Anyone But Trump' movement, it was 'Anyone But Mxxx' well, whatevs. Next stop: Branson!

[RanRan79]

If 530 Plane had been the first single, it might have had a chance.

I Guess I'll Miss the Man doesn't belong here and was a weak single even if it was a nice song.

There are several good songs but some of the overkill creating by Jean having to reach unnatural notes on the second side was unwise.

"5:30 Plane" is one of the songs from the album that I play. That, "Paradise" and "Silent Voices".

[bradsupremes]

Jimmy Webb wrote, produced, and arranged some masterpieces LPs.

Richard Harris' A Tramp Shining and The Yard Went On Forever - Brilliant!
Thelma Houston's Sunshower - A underrated masterpiece!
The 5th Dimension's Magic Garden and Earthbound - Incredible!
This album he did with the Supremes - Crap.

The pairing of Webb and Supremes had so much potential to create what could have been their greatest album. Instead the results were beyond disappointing. What could have been...

[luke]

Thornton I totally agree. It is a magnificent album!

[TomatoTom123]

Come on Tom! Haven't you heard of Diana Toss, Mary Rilson, and Florence Mallard? The Dupremes???
Serious, I empathize with Jobeterob. I've made many a misspelling in the thread header. It should be editable!

Oh, my bad, thanxal! The Dupremes, eh? They certainly ring a bell... did they sing "Baby Dove" or something?

And, yep, such easy mistakes to make yet such obvious and embarrassing ones, lol :)

[TomatoTom123]

LOLOLOLOL - I only saw that right now.

What can I say? I just got back from holiday; I can't even type anymore.

Lol, no worries jrob, easy mistake to make. Must be 'cause the 'r' and 't' keys are right next to each other, aargh ;)

[TomatoTom123]

Now I've finishing mocking the thread [[sorry jrob, lol) I should say that I have never really listened to this Supremes album. The title puts me off for starters... then less-than-favourable reviews I've read... and the lack of commercial and critical success isn't a good sign... but I will try to give it a good listen and make up my own mind! After all, it is The Dupremes, so it can't be that bad :D

[PeaceNHarmony]

Jimmy Webb wrote, produced, and arranged some masterpieces LPs.

Richard Harris' A Tramp Shining and The Yard Went On Forever - Brilliant!
Thelma Houston's Sunshower - A underrated masterpiece!
The 5th Dimension's Magic Garden and Earthbound - Incredible!
This album he did with the Supremes - Crap.

The pairing of Webb and Supremes had so much potential to create what could have been their greatest album. Instead the results were beyond disappointing. What could have been...
Agreed - mostly - it was just not a good match and [[I think) should have been shelved after a few cuts were completed. For me it's not so much 'bad' as ungodly boring!

[RanRan79]

Agreed - mostly - it was just not a good match and [[I think) should have been shelved after a few cuts were completed. For me it's not so much 'bad' as ungodly boring!

That's it. It's not a bad album but it is most definitely boring. You got that right.

[lakeside]

That's it. It's not a bad album but it is most definitely boring. You got that right.

Yep....and why [[oh why) did they put a picture of a dead weed on the cover of the LP when you have 3 attractive women available??? Did I miss some mystical or hidden
meaning?

[jobeterob]

For me, this is a better album than Floy Joy and New Ways But Love Stay and Mary Scherrie and Susaye.

I listen mostly to streamed music on Sirius these days [[they played Nothing But Heartaches recently).

But this album has many very good or decent songs: 530 Plane, All I Want, Tossin and Turnin, Paradise, Silent Voices, the 2 Mary songs - I Keep It Hid and When Can Brown Begin, especially the later; even I Guess I'll Miss the Man and Once in the Morning.

Beyond Myself is weak; there is too much stretch for Jean on a couple songs; and Mary does sound a bit untrained on I Keep It Hid.

But the real problem is that this is an album by Jean Terrell [[Mary Wilson on a couple songs) - with a whole barrage of background singers and it had little to do with the Supremes and it was generally ignored by the public as a result. What a disappointment for Jean! I would have been hurt and pissed off too.

[captainjames]

As I mentioned before "Once in The Morning" was the single to pull especially with the paper cups they were drinking out of on the back cover. It was obvious to the watchful eye of most Supreme fans that they were reaching for a new image. I am really surprise that Gordy didn't step up and say "No Way". I am not sure if a different album cover would have helped or not. Motown would have been better off releasing the pippin song and moved on.

[RanRan79]

Should've just been shelved, like someone said before. The Supremes Produced and Arranged By Stevie Wonder would almost certainly have been a better and more successful idea, regardless of the lack of success of "Bad Weather". Maybe the followup to "Bad Weather" would've done better, for whatever reason. I would think the names "Supremes" and "Stevie Wonder" would've been enough to sale a decent amount of copies of an album alone.

[PeaceNHarmony]

For me, this is a better album than Floy Joy and New Ways But Love Stay and Mary Scherrie and Susaye.

I listen mostly to streamed music on Sirius these days [[they played Nothing But Heartaches recently).

But this album has many very good or decent songs: 530 Plane, All I Want, Tossin and Turnin, Paradise, Silent Voices, the 2 Mary songs - I Keep It Hid and When Can Brown Begin, especially the later; even I Guess I'll Miss the Man and Once in the Morning.

Beyond Myself is weak; there is too much stretch for Jean on a couple songs; and Mary does sound a bit untrained on I Keep It Hid.

But the real problem is that this is an album by Jean Terrell [[Mary Wilson on a couple songs) - with a whole barrage of background singers and it had little to do with the Supremes and it was generally ignored by the public as a result. What a disappointment for Jean! I would have been hurt and pissed off too.
An interesting take on what is, without a doubt, a quality project that [[for most of us, I dare say) was just dull. I think Webb should have featured his own songs, and had the leads split evenly between the three ladies, whether individually or traded leads [[a' la the Dells). Glad to hear you like it; I've known others through the decades who have as well.

[TomatoTom123]

Yep....and why [[oh why) did they put a picture of a dead weed on the cover of the LP when you have 3 attractive women available??? Did I miss some mystical or hidden
meaning?

lol

Now what on earth is wrong with this lovely cover?

13386

[jobeterob]

Great if you called the lp Dandelion

[daviddh]

it was a jean solo ,almost. to many voices. the entire lp needed a remix. sorry ,I like about 3 songs. rest is disapointing

[lakeside]

I think the LP should have been called....Jean and the Mormon Tabernacle Choir. Nuff said.

[daviddh]

Live In Japan up now

[Thornton]

An interesting take on what is, without a doubt, a quality project that [[for most of us, I dare say) was just dull. I think Webb should have featured his own songs, and had the leads split evenly between the three ladies, whether individually or traded leads [[a' la the Dells). Glad to hear you like it; I've known others through the decades who have as well.

Right there with you. I really like the album as is, but there was lots of room for improvement. Can you imagine Lynda taking the lead on "Cheap Lovin'"? Jean is great, but Lynda would have rocked that song. I already mentioned in an earlier post Jimmy Webb songs that would have been perfect for JML to record.

[PeaceNHarmony]

Right there with you. I really like the album as is, but there was lots of room for improvement. Can you imagine Lynda taking the lead on "Cheap Lovin'"? Jean is great, but Lynda would have rocked that song. I already mentioned in an earlier post Jimmy Webb songs that would have been perfect for JML to record.
Yes, Lynda would have - and I'll look up the earlier post -

[Boogiedown]

I don't know this project , never listened to it, but am now .

and I am curious as to how it ever came to be made?? Whose idea was it? Was Webb itching to record the Supremes? Berry Gordy sought Jimmy Webb with The Supremes particularly in mind ?

I think it does add evidence that Motown was supportive and was trying to come up with something to give The Supremes a shot in the arm . A risky idea that no doubt they went with because they were hopeful of something remarkable resulting .

Trouble is, Jimmy Webb had peaked and was cold at this time [[and would stay so). No artist had had a hit from his writing in three years and his own albums were stiffs. To record his old successes would've really made The Supremes seem 60's retro, and besides two of his , UP UP AND AWAY and MACARTHUR PARK had already appeared on earlier Supremes albums.

Just not sure what Motown or The Supremes were hoping for from this , an MOR image?

Has Mary ever spoken of it??

Of course had the project been a smash the topic would now be discussed entirely differently.

Jimmy Webb joins in here :


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eup383r6C80

[[Add three more 'Supremes' : The Blossoms)

[reese]

I don't know this project , never listened to it, but am now .

and I am curious as to how it ever came to be made?? Whose idea was it? Was Webb itching to record the Supremes? Berry Gordy sought Jimmy Webb with The Supremes particularly in mind ?

I think it does add evidence that Motown was supportive and was trying to come up with something to give The Supremes a shot in the arm . A risky idea that no doubt they went with because they were hopeful of something remarkable resulting...



In her second book, Mary wrote the pairing was the idea of their manager Wayne Weisbart, and that she was surprised Motown approved it.

[daviddh]

I think the lp would have worked with the original voices, the three Supremes and not the Blossoms. and having Mary and Lynda sing more leads. it kind of soul country to me. but as it is , not for me some good lyrics. Miss The Man , not for me.to syrupy. I would have went with When Can Brown Begin.

[kenneth]

I've always liked the album though it is definitely over produced in terms of the background vocals on some songs. But how anyone could have selected "Miss the Man" as the only single...unbelievable. I know this song has its fans but to me it is so downbeat, it has no chorus but only a verse, and is practically talk-sung by Jean.

But @daviddh, I think "When Can Brown Begin" is even more syrupy. Some of those lyrics about "salt and pepper," and so on...to me it's juvenile on the order of "Ebony and Ivory." [[Forgive me, please. I know good intentions go into such songs but to me they just come off as so hackneyed sounding.)

I think the best cut is "5:30 Plane," and I think if it had been played it could have been a big hit. A beautiful song and one of Jean's finest performances, IMHO.

[smallworld]

"I Guess I'll Miss the Man" is syrupy?! It's almost jaded [["Some men are simple good men / This man wasn't one"). And the production is much more understated than Webb's work on the album.

[Ozmo]

"I Guess I'll Miss the Man" is syrupy?! It's almost jaded [["Some men are simple good men / This man wasn't one"). And the production is much more understated than Webb's work on the album.

I agree with you, there is a world weary tone to the lyrics as Jean lists all her man's shortcomings but finally admits that 'he was the best to come along'. I like this track but don't think that it is really a 'group' song and would be more suited to a solo singer. Perhaps Diana or Thelma with a Michael Masser production.

As for the album as a whole, I would class it as a heroic failure and give the group kudos for at least trying something different. I can understand that the group felt that they were being left behind by Motown, what with Diana breaking into movies and Stevie, Marvin and Smokey concentrating on their own productions.

I suspect that The Supremes and their manager were expecting an album along the lines of Thelma's 'Sunshower' or the Fifth Dimension's 'Up Up and Away' or' Magic Garden' albums. What they got was something quite different of course.

Jimmy Webb stated in his book that Motown basically left him alone during the recording process. Perhaps if Motown had been less indifferent, the resulting album may have reflected more of the Supremes and less of Jimmy Webb. We can only ponder!

[Boogiedown]

Nice record, very nice arrangement . Not Supremes though imo. More like Dionne Warwick ? [[Did the Supremes ever chart a ballad?)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ef9jqW4V9i0

Very odd , the final word on this, when Jean sings "while" its obviously been edited , replacing the way she originally sang it , perhaps on a higher note ..... which I think , imo, would've sounded much better, shoulda left it alone.

[sup_fan]

this is one of the many "what if's" with the 70s Sups.

What if - more Jimmy Webb original songs
What if - just the Sups on vocals and more shared leads
What if - the tracks were produced in Jean's range, eliminating some of the strained and shrill vocals
What if - lead single was 5:30 Plane
What if - better album cover graphic

on and on

[jobeterob]

this is one of the many "what if's" with the 70s Sups.

What if - more Jimmy Webb original songs
What if - just the Sups on vocals and more shared leads
What if - the tracks were produced in Jean's range, eliminating some of the strained and shrill vocals
What if - lead single was 5:30 Plane
What if - better album cover graphic

on and on

Especially your last 3 points