Supremes Songs With Only Diana Ross ??

[Boogiedown]

Reviewing songs mentioned on the 'songs over five minutes' thread, I was surprised by what I didn't hear when listening to this one:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gedOX0zd9iE

Five minutes of non-stop vocalizing from one Supreme yet nary a peep out of the other ones the entire time !

Are there other examples of Supremes songs like this ?

[RanRan79]

"Yesterday", "These Boots" and the very first version of "I Want a Guy" come to mind, in addition to "Billy Joe". Florence has "Oh Holy Night" by herself. I don't think Mary has one.

This version of "Billy Joe" is barely okay, but it could've been so much better. For starters HDH should've had Diana singing in a lower key, which she was perfectly capable of doing. Her high reading of the lyrics takes the dark edge off of this gloomy song. I'm not sure why they made that decision, being so tuned in to producing Diana's voice.

[Jimi LaLumia]

"Billie Joe" is what kept "Reflections" from hitting #1 on the Billboard Hot 100 in the summer of 1967; "Reflections" remained stalled at #2 behind "Billie Joe" for several weeks

[luke]

Is Diana on Come and get these memories?

[blackguy69]

Actually Mary's duet with Eddie on can't take my eyes off of you has no Supremes on it.

[blackguy69]

Also send him to me is a Mary solo since the background wasn't added

[RanRan79]

Is Diana on Come and get these memories?

I used to question it, because I'm pretty sure that in addition to Flo, Mary is also singing background. But now I think it's possible I hear Diana in the back, but I'm not positive. Another good question for George or Andy.

[RanRan79]

Actually Mary's duet with Eddie on can't take my eyes off of you has no Supremes on it.

Yup, you're right BG. I forgot about that one. So all three have solos.

[jobucats]

How about "With a Child's Heart" from the "Let the Sunshine" album? That one immediately came to my mind.

[RanRan79]

How about "With a Child's Heart" from the "Let the Sunshine" album? That one immediately came to my mind.

How could I forget that one? It's one of my favorites.

[blackguy69]

Now we could expand on this topic if we include live concerts
Diana did Didn't we and My man
Mary did A song for you and how lucky can you get plus part of the genie sequence
Cindy did part of the genie sequence
Jean did people then later he ain't heavy
Scherrie did what about today and part of the genie sequence
Susaye did knocks me off my feet and part of the genie sequence
Flo and Lynda never did a solo while being a supreme

[vgalindo]

Now we could expand on this topic if we include live concerts
Diana did Didn't we and My man
Mary did A song for you and how lucky can you get plus part of the genie sequence
Cindy did part of the genie sequence
Jean did people then later he ain't heavy
Scherrie did what about today and part of the genie sequence
Susaye did knocks me off my feet and part of the genie sequence
Flo and Lynda never did a solo while being a supreme
Lynda and Sherrie both had a solo on the RTL tour.

[blackguy69]

I didn't include the rtf tour. I only included their tenure as a supreme

[imakicola]

Actually Mary's duet with Eddie on can't take my eyes off of you has no Supremes on it.

Really? Is it just Eddie or are there Andantes on it? I can't listen to it right now and I forgot how the background sounded!

[imakicola]

Now we could expand on this topic if we include live concerts
Diana did Didn't we and My man
Mary did A song for you and how lucky can you get plus part of the genie sequence
Cindy did part of the genie sequence
Jean did people then later he ain't heavy
Scherrie did what about today and part of the genie sequence
Susaye did knocks me off my feet and part of the genie sequence
Flo and Lynda never did a solo while being a supreme

What? I thought Flo had a solo in "People" before Diana ended up singing it?!?!

[reese]

What? I thought Flo had a solo in "People" before Diana ended up singing it?!?!

PEOPLE was never a complete Flo solo. Flo sang the majority of the lead, but there was also a lot of three-part harmony from the girls, as well as a small solo section by Diana. Later, Mary inherited Diana's solo section.

[blackguy69]

What? I thought Flo had a solo in "People" before Diana ended up singing it?!?!

People was a Flo lead not a solo.

[blackguy69]

Really? Is it just Eddie or are there Andantes on it? I can't listen to it right now and I forgot how the background sounded!
It's just Mary and Eddie. No Supremes, no temptations, no andantes.

[Boogiedown]

"Yesterday", "These Boots" and the very first version of "I Want a Guy" come to mind, in addition to "Billy Joe". Florence has "Oh Holy Night" by herself. I don't think Mary has one.

This version of "Billy Joe" is barely okay, but it could've been so much better. For starters HDH should've had Diana singing in a lower key, which she was perfectly capable of doing. Her high reading of the lyrics takes the dark edge off of this gloomy song. I'm not sure why they made that decision, being so tuned in to producing Diana's voice.
I think barely OK about says it . Pretty straight forward , nothing done with the song to change it out except for dropping the song's vital string accompaniment . Wiki does not as yet mention this particular cover .

Should've started her vocal session over when Diana got lazy and sang
"then she said she got some news thizz mornin'..."
The song is kind of a downer presence too when the Supremes were generally an upbeat proposition.

Here's THESE BOOTS WERE MADE FOR WALKIN':


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgDV00-3B6w

could've ended that with:
"are you ready girls , start singing!"
and then give the girls some lines to close out with :p

[[hey it is supposed to be a group effort here !!)

[mowsville]

As has been mentioned on this site before...there are Beatles songs that only feature 1 Beatle but theres never any questioning why or how...why is it such a drama with the Supremes...i dont get it.

[Boogiedown]

No drama intended

but as for the comparison , I'd say
the Beatles were a creative collective, writing and performing their own music , and they called the shots on how they wanted to present their songs . The Supremes were just a singing group, collective singers of songs of others, and as such you sort of expect them to sing together , or if not , when doling out solos, doing so in a more equitable way so each member gets a turn at it ..... well unless the intention is to further the career of just one member. In the meantime , they're not headlined as "Diana Ross and Usually The Supremes" ! I guess it begs the question , why aren't they on those songs?

Now that you've brought it up mowsville , you've got me curious, did other Motown groups feature solo songs where the other members were totally absent?

:confused::confused:

[Jimi LaLumia]

who cares why? It's done, a million years ago and its not going to be undun[[that was a Guess Who song)

[Jimi LaLumia]

and The Beatles were NOT a creative collective, not according to George Harrison or Ringo Starr[[George was the combative ,put upon Ballard of The Beatles, Ringo was Mary Wilson) and they have all agreed that Paul was Miss Ross with all those 'Yesterday" "Michelle" solo singles that said Beatles on em; the other three ultimately banded together against Paul towards the end, watch the movie "Let it Be"..

[marv2]

who cares why? It's done, a million years ago and its not going to be undun[[that was a Guess Who song)

The Guess Who is one of my favorite bands. I use to keep their greatest hits in my car, LOL!

[marv2]

and The Beatles were NOT a creative collective, not according to George Harrison or Ringo Starr[[George was the combative ,put upon Ballard of The Beatles, Ringo was Mary Wilson) and they have all agreed that Paul was Miss Ross with all those 'Yesterday" "Michelle" solo singles that said Beatles on em; the other three ultimately banded together against Paul towards the end, watch the movie "Let it Be"..

Perfect example, analogy or whatever.

[marv2]

As has been mentioned on this site before...there are Beatles songs that only feature 1 Beatle but theres never any questioning why or how...why is it such a drama with the Supremes...i dont get it.

Exactly. I am almost 100% certain there is only one Rolling Stone singing on songs like this.......


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6PsahByRUU

[marv2]

Lynda and Sherrie both had a solo on the RTL tour.

Kaaren Ragland and Lucy Shropshire have had solos on Mary Wilson's tours but just like the Lynda/Scherrie situation, they were not signed Motown artists at the time.

[marv2]

No drama intended

but as for the comparison , I'd say
the Beatles were a creative collective, writing and performing their own music , and they called the shots on how they wanted to present their songs . The Supremes were just a singing group, collective singers of songs of others, and as such you sort of expect them to sing together , or if not , when doling out solos, doing so in a more equitable way so each member gets a turn at it ..... well unless the intention is to further the career of just one member. In the meantime , they're not headlined as "Diana Ross and Usually The Supremes" ! I guess it begs the question , why aren't they on those songs?

Now that you've brought it up mowsville , you've got me curious, did other Motown groups feature solo songs where the other members were totally absent?

:confused::confused:

Just a singing group? I would have loved to see the Beatles try to "perform" all of that specific choreography and harmonies for all of those songs the Supremes recorded!

[marv2]

No drama intended

but as for the comparison , I'd say
the Beatles were a creative collective, writing and performing their own music , and they called the shots on how they wanted to present their songs . The Supremes were just a singing group, collective singers of songs of others, and as such you sort of expect them to sing together , or if not , when doling out solos, doing so in a more equitable way so each member gets a turn at it ..... well unless the intention is to further the career of just one member. In the meantime , they're not headlined as "Diana Ross and Usually The Supremes" ! I guess it begs the question , why aren't they on those songs?

Now that you've brought it up mowsville , you've got me curious, did other Motown groups feature solo songs where the other members were totally absent?

:confused::confused:

A big reason is because Mary Wilson and Cindy Birdsong were living in LA by 1968 while Motown was still primarily recording in Detroit! For albums cuts especially it would have been easier just to use the Andantes for them. Most of the songs recorded between 1968-69 were not that good in my opinion.

[reese]

Now that you've brought it up mowsville , you've got me curious, did other Motown groups feature solo songs where the other members were totally absent?

:confused::confused:

Off the top of my head, I can think of some Gladys Knight and the Pips recordings that do not feature the Pips, like their versions of VALLEY OF THE DOLLS, FOR ONCE IN MY LIFE, and HELP ME MAKE IT THROUGH THE NIGHT, which became a hit single.

Martha's version of DIDN'T WE has no Vandellas.

[RanRan79]

Here's THESE BOOTS WERE MADE FOR WALKIN':

could've ended that with:
"are you ready girls , start singing!"
and then give the girls some lines to close out with :p

[[hey it is supposed to be a group effort here !!)

I love "their" version of "These Boots", but I think it would've been better with a great Flo and Mary backup performance. Truth be told, I think it would've been better with Flo singing the lead, but it was a good song regardless. I think your idea about the way the song ended would've really been cool.

[RanRan79]

As has been mentioned on this site before...there are Beatles songs that only feature 1 Beatle but theres never any questioning why or how...why is it such a drama with the Supremes...i dont get it.

Who questioned why? And where exactly is the drama in this thread? What I don't get is why so many folks get their undies in a bunch whenever a Supremes related topic is brought up. Everything said about them [[and their individual members) seems to annoy someone. I swear if I didn't love this group so much I would hate them and all of their individual members after reading the posts in this forum. Y'all take the Supremes waaaayyyy too seriously.

[RanRan79]

who cares why? It's done, a million years ago and its not going to be undun[[that was a Guess Who song)

Yup, because asking "why" [[not that anyone did, mind you) is definitely folks trying to change history. History should be learned but not discussed, right?:rolleyes:

[vgalindo]

Kaaren Ragland and Lucy Shropshire have had solos on Mary Wilson's tours but just like the Lynda/Scherrie situation, they were not signed Motown artists at the time.
What?? Sherrie and Susaye were signed Motown artists at one time. Lucy and Kaaraen never were. The RTL tour was licensed by Motown as Diana Ross and the Supremes.

[PeaceNHarmony]

Didn't really matter; Diana Ross was the voice that the world wanted to hear.

[luke]

That's sure true Marv. The mass homogenization of The group had begun. Without Flo and Mary they were not distinctive.

[marv2]

What?? Sherrie and Susaye were signed Motown artists at one time. Lucy and Kaaraen never were. The RTL tour was licensed by Motown as Diana Ross and the Supremes.

You got it wrong. YOU said that Lynda and Scherrie had solos on the RTL Tour [[which had nothing to do with Motown Records as neither were signed to Motown at the time of RTL in 2000). You also have it wrong. The RTL Tour was not licensed by Motown. Motown had nothing to do with that tour. Diana Ross paid Motown to license the name "The Supremes" for a tour she claimed was not a reunion tour!

[marv2]

That's sure true Marv. The mass homogenization of The group had begun. Without Flo and Mary they were not distinctive.

We know that because the hits stopped coming regularly without Mary and Flo.

[vgalindo]

You got it wrong. YOU said that Lynda and Scherrie had solos on the RTL Tour [[which had nothing to do with Motown Records as neither were signed to Motown at the time of RTL in 2000). You also have it wrong. The RTL Tour was not licensed by Motown. Motown had nothing to do with that tour. Diana Ross paid Motown to license the name "The Supremes" for a tour she claimed was not a reunion tour!
Diana Ross paying Motown to license the name. What's the difference? It was licensed by Motown! And I know Lynda and Sherrie were not signed to Motown at the time. My point is Mary's Kareen and Lucy were never signed to Motown ever!! Lynda and Sherrie are former Motown recording artists.

[marv2]

Diana Ross paying Motown to license the name. What's the difference? It was licensed by Motown! And I know Lynda and Sherrie were not signed to Motown at the time. My point is Mary's Kareen and Lucy were never signed to Motown ever!! Lynda and Sherrie are former Motown recording artists.



The difference is that there was no difference between what Lynda and Scherrie were doing compared to what Kaaren and Lucy were doing on Mary's tours. NONE of them were "The Supremes" at the time. Former is just that.......former!

[Roberta75]

That's sure true Marv. The mass homogenization of The group had begun. Without Flo and Mary they were not distinctive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwBirf4BWew

[John G. Stumpf]

We know that because the hits stopped coming regularly without Mary and Flo.
The magic was gone. Diana did not hit regularly as a solo act. Every few years she woul have a hit.

[blackguy69]

Roberta are you jealous of them?

[Roberta75]

Roberta are you jealous of them?

No dear Im happy for them. Defending Mary has brought them together. Its real beautiful.

[blackguy69]

It's seems like you're trolling them

[vgalindo]

Kaaren Ragland and Lucy Shropshire have had solos on Mary Wilson's tours but just like the Lynda/Scherrie situation, they were not signed Motown artists at the time.
Where in the thread does it say if they had a solo while being signed to Motown? Blackguy69 said he didn't include RTL which is fine. But he didn't say anything about while being signed to Motown!! Kareen and Lucy were just Mary's background singers. They were never Supremes so you can't compare the two. Diana let the Jones Girls have a solo spot during her days with Motown but you wouldn't include them because they would be considered like a Karen and Lucy background singers.

[Roberta75]

It's seems like you're trolling them

you may see it that way dear but im far from trolling them. Anyway im bored with this subject now. Have a good evening.

[PeaceNHarmony]

The magic was gone. Diana did not hit regularly as a solo act. Every few years she woul have a hit.
Too funny! Even if true, every few years is better than ... NEVER! Best to you and your beliefs. Next to Nora Desmond, Mary Ferrar is the greatest star EVER! And, Mister Gordy, she's ready for her closeup!

[vgalindo]

Too funny! Even if true, every few years is better than ... NEVER! Best to you and your beliefs. Next to Nora Desmond, Mary Ferrar is the greatest star EVER!
So true. People always trying to down play the success of Diana Ross! First solo female artist to have 4 number 1 records! Billboards Entertainer of the Century!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SB7R5Vzy0yw

[blackguy69]

Both of you were off, the examples I listed were solos, no background vocals whatsoever. So technically Lynda and Scherries' "solos" aren't solos and marv I don't know why you even mentioned Mary's background singers when they shouldn't be

[blackguy69]

Until he says something that bothers you and you'll be back

[blackguy69]

Ok people it's starting to lose control, let's keep on the subject

[vgalindo]

Both of you were off, the examples I listed were solos, no background vocals whatsoever. So technically Lynda and Scherries' "solos" aren't solos and marv I don't know why you even mentioned Mary's background singers when they shouldn't be
Thank you Blackguy69. I now understand what you were saying.

[Roberta75]

Ok people it's starting to lose control, let's keep on the subject

Genuine question. did Ralph make you co-moderator?

[RanRan79]

Y'all are doing the most in this thread today. Lol

Does anyone else besides me hear Diana singing "Our day will come...our day will come..." at the end of- you guessed it- "Our Day Will Come"??

[PeaceNHarmony]

Mary will make another album - then another - then ANOTHER! And she will never leave all those millions of fans - out there - in the dark! Funny thing is I have no opinion of her one way or another. But her fanatics - right?? It's like the trump voters insisting he is the best and most productive potus EVER!

[reese]

Y'all are doing the most in this thread today. Lol

Does anyone else besides me hear Diana singing "Our day will come...our day will come..." at the end of- you guessed it- "Our Day Will Come"??

I wasn't sure if it was Diana, Flo, or both of them.

[RanRan79]

I wasn't sure if it was Diana, Flo, or both of them.

I used to think it was Diana and Flo but now I think the voice sounds a little deeper, so maybe it's Mary and Diana. I wonder if Mary [[?) and Diana [[and/or Flo?) did the background and the producers decided to replace them with the Andantes afterwards. Since the song wasn't released at the time, maybe it was incomplete, like "Stay In My Lonely Arms".

[blackguy69]

[QUOTE=PeaceNHarmony;405997]Mary will make another album - then another - then ANOTHER! And she will never leave all those millions of fans - out there - in the dark! Funny thing is I have no opinion of her one way or another. But her fanatics - right?? It's like the trump voters insisting he is the best and most productive potus EVER![/QUOTE
Like the Diana fans thinking she walks on water

[marv2]

Where in the thread does it say if they had a solo while being signed to Motown? Blackguy69 said he didn't include RTL which is fine. But he didn't say anything about while being signed to Motown!! Kareen and Lucy were just Mary's background singers. They were never Supremes so you can't compare the two. Diana let the Jones Girls have a solo spot during her days with Motown but you wouldn't include them because they would be considered like a Karen and Lucy background singers.

Sorry, but I do not understand anything you just posted here.

[marv2]

Diana Ross paying Motown to license the name. What's the difference? It was licensed by Motown! And I know Lynda and Sherrie were not signed to Motown at the time. My point is Mary's Kareen and Lucy were never signed to Motown ever!! Lynda and Sherrie are former Motown recording artists.


The name "The Supremes" was not licensed by Motown. Motown owns that trademark. I think you forgot the original premise that even brought up the name Lynda. Lynda did not have any solo or leads recorded by Motown when she was in the Supremes.

[marv2]

The magic was gone. Diana did not hit regularly as a solo act. Every few years she woul have a hit.

If you look at her solo career, it was always hit or miss.

[Jimi LaLumia]

my memory might be cloudy but i believe the initial plan was for Motown to release a "live' album and DVD of "RTL" before everything quickly went sideways so thereby Motown did have a hand in it at the beginning anyway

[marv2]

my memory might be cloudy but i believe the initial plan was for Motown to release a "live' album and DVD of "RTL" before everything quickly went sideways so thereby Motown did have a hand in it at the beginning anyway

Uh uh , nope! That was all rumor..... sorry Jimi.

[vgalindo]

my memory might be cloudy but i believe the initial plan was for Motown to release a "live' album and DVD of "RTL" before everything quickly went sideways so thereby Motown did have a hand in it at the beginning anyway
Yes I remember that too. It was not a rumor. If the tour would have did good there was going to be a live album and DVD issued by Motown.

[vgalindo]

The name "The Supremes" was not licensed by Motown. Motown owns that trademark. I think you forgot the original premise that even brought up the name Lynda. Lynda did not have any solo or leads recorded by Motown when she was in the Supremes.
Sorry but I don't understand anything you posted!!

[marv2]

Yes I remember that too. It was not a rumor. If the tour would have did good there was going to be a live album and DVD issued by Motown.

That tour was doomed the moment they walked into that press conference at Grand Central Station here. Everyone in New York knew it except Diana Ross evidently! No Universal/Motown was not wasting any money or time on that travesty, that charade.

Motown had just dropped Diana Ross from their label in 2000, the year RTL went out. Scherrie Payne and Lynda Laurence also did not have recording contracts with Motown in 2000. The fact is Motown had NOTHING to do with that tour and had no plans whatsoever to produce a CD or DVD for that tour. They had worked hard to finally get rid of Diana Ross and had just succeeded in 2000. They were not going to resign her just to record a RTL CD LOL!

[luke]

If the original planned tour with Cindy, Mary and Diana had done well there was talk of a possible new album...[[Why on earth would people buy a live cd of Diana Ross and two women she never sang with before ??)

[vgalindo]

That tour was doomed the moment they walked into that press conference at Grand Central Station here. Everyone in New York knew it except Diana Ross evidently! No Universal/Motown was not wasting any money or time on that travesty, that charade.

Motown had just dropped Diana Ross from their label in 2000, the year RTL went out. Scherrie Payne and Lynda Laurence also did not have recording contracts with Motown in 2000. The fact is Motown had NOTHING to do with that tour and had no plans whatsoever to produce a CD or DVD for that tour. They had worked hard to finally get rid of Diana Ross and had just succeeded in 2000. They were not going to resign her just to record a RTL CD LOL!
Okay Mr know it all. Lol

[vgalindo]

If the original planned tour with Cindy, Mary and Diana had done well there was talk of a possible new album...[[Why on earth would people buy a live cd of Diana Ross and two women she never sang with before ??)
Just like they bought many cds of Diana Ross with and without the Supremes!!

[PeaceNHarmony]

[QUOTE=PeaceNHarmony;405997]Mary will make another album - then another - then ANOTHER! And she will never leave all those millions of fans - out there - in the dark! Funny thing is I have no opinion of her one way or another. But her fanatics - right?? It's like the trump voters insisting he is the best and most productive potus EVER![/QUOTE
Like the Diana fans thinking she walks on water
She does. I've seen it.

[PeaceNHarmony]

my memory might be cloudy but i believe the initial plan was for Motown to release a "live' album and DVD of "RTL" before everything quickly went sideways so thereby Motown did have a hand in it at the beginning anyway
I remember the same; I believe that's why the opening was professionally filmed. But it was a wonderful concert and the three ladies did themselves well in their performances.

[marv2]

If the original planned tour with Cindy, Mary and Diana had done well there was talk of a possible new album...[[Why on earth would people buy a live cd of Diana Ross and two women she never sang with before ??)

I would answer that but the answer is already obvious. Diana Ross had been issuing flop CDs for years by that point. Lynda and Scherrie had not recorded for quite some time.

[RanRan79]

RTL...the topic that spawns a thousand arguments. The tour can't be considered anything but a stain on the career of Diana Ross. She should have just scrapped the Supremes thing and did her own thing. But she was stubborn and still felt like she needed to prove something- that she could do the Supremes on her own- and she got her face broke.

At the same time Diana in all likelihood- along with her "replacement Supremes", as they are sometimes disrespectfully referred to- still managed to pack more people each night during a failed tour than Mary Wilson has ever been able to do in her post Supremes career. And the tour would have put more money in Mary's bank account than she had made since the Supremes heyday [[when you account for inflation).

So bottom line is neither side has any laughing room. Everybody involved f'd up. I bet they all wish things had been different. But I doubt any of them are losing sleep over it and since that time both Diana and Mary have achieved some additional career highlights. So as usual the Supremes story still ends up with high notes.

[vgalindo]

RTL...the topic that spawns a thousand arguments. The tour can't be considered anything but a stain on the career of Diana Ross. She should have just scrapped the Supremes thing and did her own thing. But she was stubborn and still felt like she needed to prove something- that she could do the Supremes on her own- and she got her face broke.

At the same time Diana in all likelihood- along with her "replacement Supremes", as they are sometimes disrespectfully referred to- still managed to pack more people each night during a failed tour than Mary Wilson has ever been able to do in her post Supremes career. And the tour would have put more money in Mary's bank account than she had made since the Supremes heyday [[when you account for inflation).

So bottom line is neither side has any laughing room. Everybody involved f'd up. I bet they all wish things had been different. But I doubt any of them are losing sleep over it and since that time both Diana and Mary have achieved some additional career highlights. So as usual the Supremes story still ends up with high notes.

Thanks RanRan79. I agree with you 100 percent.

[marv2]

RTL...the topic that spawns a thousand arguments. The tour can't be considered anything but a stain on the career of Diana Ross. She should have just scrapped the Supremes thing and did her own thing. But she was stubborn and still felt like she needed to prove something- that she could do the Supremes on her own- and she got her face broke.

At the same time Diana in all likelihood- along with her "replacement Supremes", as they are sometimes disrespectfully referred to- still managed to pack more people each night during a failed tour than Mary Wilson has ever been able to do in her post Supremes career. And the tour would have put more money in Mary's bank account than she had made since the Supremes heyday [[when you account for inflation).

So bottom line is neither side has any laughing room. Everybody involved f'd up. I bet they all wish things had been different. But I doubt any of them are losing sleep over it and since that time both Diana and Mary have achieved some additional career highlights. So as usual the Supremes story still ends up with high notes.

No they didn't. They only got just under 3,000 to come to their show in Columbus,OH for example. Mary doesn't book arenas, so can't say what you did with any truth or evidence to support your statement.

[blackguy69]

Marv this is one on those moments that you just need to leave it alone. mary or Diana don't need defending on this issue. It happened and it's done. They moved on. You and some of the others on here need to do the same

[marv2]

Marv this is one on those moments that you just need to leave it alone. mary or Diana don't need defending on this issue. It happened and it's done. They moved on. You and some of the others on here need to do the same


Ok thanks.................

[vgalindo]

No they didn't. They only got just under 3,000 to come to their show in Columbus,OH for example. Mary doesn't book arenas, so can't say what you did with any truth or evidence to support your statement.
That was only one of their shows. They played 14 shows before it was cancelled. Some shows sold very well. Madison Square Garden was sold out. That one show is probably a bigger crowd than all of Marys shows put together for the whole year.

[TheMotownManiac]

PLEASE let's keep RTL in perspective. Many RTL shows sold beautifully, many did not. Let's not be childish enough to use extremes as the norm ...... Also, comparing Diana and Mary attendance is silly, they do not have comparable careers.... NO ONE expects Mary to draw like Diana, so the comparison is absurd and useless. Mary has a fine career for her abilities and opportunities. I am proud of her growth as an artist. Ditto Diana. She is an icon, and to pick out her failings is idiotic without mentioning her achievements. Yes, Mary doesn't book arenas, but are you at all serious in your statement that you don't know how she'd draw? Diana may have been hit and miss, but that doesn't mean it kept her from signing the most lucrative contract in history at the time. That was a signing BONUS, btw, not and advance.
'PLEASE LETS NOT RUN DOWN THESE TWO GIANTS. Both have fans and detractors, but both deserve respect and honor. Yes, RTL was a mess, but the shows were great and everyone loved them. Yes, Motown WAS planning CD&DVD releases AND the possibility of a studio album that got chucked when Mary and Cindy dropped out, but the other plans were still a go. Yes, Mary now wishes she had played her cards differently and Cindy blamed Mary for it all.
Marv, you are wrong about Diana not being on the label in 2000. Her contact expired in 2002 by mutual agreement as she was fed up with them, and they never forgave her for not touring to support Every Day Is A New Day. she refused to sing those songs because they made her sad.
Mary is very happy these days, as is Diana. Mary wishes she were more financially sound, Diana wishes she were younger. I can pick at both, and I choose not to. I appreciate both and respect their decisions to have the relationship they have. I continue to watch them live and get pleasure from both. At times LOL

[thanxal]

PLEASE let's keep RTL in perspective. ... PLEASE LETS NOT RUN DOWN THESE TWO GIANTS ...
Thank you.

[marv2]

PLEASE let's keep RTL in perspective. Many RTL shows sold beautifully, many did not. Let's not be childish enough to use extremes as the norm ...... Also, comparing Diana and Mary attendance is silly, they do not have comparable careers.... NO ONE expects Mary to draw like Diana, so the comparison is absurd and useless. Mary has a fine career for her abilities and opportunities. I am proud of her growth as an artist. Ditto Diana. She is an icon, and to pick out her failings is idiotic without mentioning her achievements. Yes, Mary doesn't book arenas, but are you at all serious in your statement that you don't know how she'd draw? Diana may have been hit and miss, but that doesn't mean it kept her from signing the most lucrative contract in history at the time. That was a signing BONUS, btw, not and advance.
'PLEASE LETS NOT RUN DOWN THESE TWO GIANTS. Both have fans and detractors, but both deserve respect and honor. Yes, RTL was a mess, but the shows were great and everyone loved them. Yes, Motown WAS planning CD&DVD releases AND the possibility of a studio album that got chucked when Mary and Cindy dropped out, but the other plans were still a go. Yes, Mary now wishes she had played her cards differently and Cindy blamed Mary for it all.
Marv, you are wrong about Diana not being on the label in 2000. Her contact expired in 2002 by mutual agreement as she was fed up with them, and they never forgave her for not touring to support Every Day Is A New Day. she refused to sing those songs because they made her sad.
Mary is very happy these days, as is Diana. Mary wishes she were more financially sound, Diana wishes she were younger. I can pick at both, and I choose not to. I appreciate both and respect their decisions to have the relationship they have. I continue to watch them live and get pleasure from both. At times LOL

Motown dumped Diana Ross! She was not making any money for the label once she returned. They dropped her in 2000 not long after her husband dropped her in 2000. You are wrong. They [[Motown) are not even regularly issuing her canned or old catalog unless you include what they did as the Supremes now.

[marv2]

PLEASE let's keep RTL in perspective. Many RTL shows sold beautifully, many did not. Let's not be childish enough to use extremes as the norm ...... Also, comparing Diana and Mary attendance is silly, they do not have comparable careers.... NO ONE expects Mary to draw like Diana, so the comparison is absurd and useless. Mary has a fine career for her abilities and opportunities. I am proud of her growth as an artist. Ditto Diana. She is an icon, and to pick out her failings is idiotic without mentioning her achievements. Yes, Mary doesn't book arenas, but are you at all serious in your statement that you don't know how she'd draw? Diana may have been hit and miss, but that doesn't mean it kept her from signing the most lucrative contract in history at the time. That was a signing BONUS, btw, not and advance.
'PLEASE LETS NOT RUN DOWN THESE TWO GIANTS. Both have fans and detractors, but both deserve respect and honor. Yes, RTL was a mess, but the shows were great and everyone loved them. Yes, Motown WAS planning CD&DVD releases AND the possibility of a studio album that got chucked when Mary and Cindy dropped out, but the other plans were still a go. Yes, Mary now wishes she had played her cards differently and Cindy blamed Mary for it all.
Marv, you are wrong about Diana not being on the label in 2000. Her contact expired in 2002 by mutual agreement as she was fed up with them, and they never forgave her for not touring to support Every Day Is A New Day. she refused to sing those songs because they made her sad.
Mary is very happy these days, as is Diana. Mary wishes she were more financially sound, Diana wishes she were younger. I can pick at both, and I choose not to. I appreciate both and respect their decisions to have the relationship they have. I continue to watch them live and get pleasure from both. At times LOL

It was in 2002 when she was arrested for extreme drunk driving.

[blackguy69]

Marv you are so wrong, let it go

[jobeterob]

The dropped her in 2000 not long after her husband dropped her in 2000. You are wrong. They [[Motown) are not even regularly issuing her canned or old catalog unless you include what they did as the Supremes now.

How come they just issued "on vinyl" Diana Ross 1980?

A review of it says it only sold 9 million copies world wide.

A review of Red Hot said it sold 942 copies on release.

Well, it is comparable; 1/10th of 1% of the sales of the Queen.

[marv2]

How come they just issued "on vinyl" Diana Ross 1980?

A review of it says it only sold 9 million copies world wide.

A review of Red Hot said it sold 942 copies on release.

Well, it is comparable; 1/10th of 1% of the sales of the Queen.

Go back to sleep. Shouldn't you be somewhere up there dealing with that opiod crisis in your neighborhood? LOL Get out of Dodge, no one is buying Diana Ross music and it will not see any significant re-release until she is dead and then it may not get re-released.

[marv2]

Marv you are so wrong, let it go

Ok but he was getting on my nerves. LOL!

[thanxal]

How come they just issued "on vinyl" Diana Ross 1980?

A review of it says it only sold 9 million copies world wide.

A review of Red Hot said it sold 942 copies on release.

Well, it is comparable; 1/10th of 1% of the sales of the Queen.
Wow, J-Rob... all these copies of Diana's solo albums re-released by Hip-OSelect/Universal must be figments of my opioid crisis. I also see in my hallucination "Diana Ross 1976" and "Diana and Marvin" on vinyl. Do you see them as well?

[RanRan79]

No they didn't. They only got just under 3,000 to come to their show in Columbus,OH for example. Mary doesn't book arenas, so can't say what you did with any truth or evidence to support your statement.

I know damn well you aint talking about truth and evidence!!! LMAO Oh I am over here cracking up!!! Oh boy!!!! LMAO That was a good one Marv!!! We can always count on you to lighten the mood Cool Cat!!! Thanks for that.

But I'll concede that I didn't check into actual figures regarding each night of the tour. I was taking what I felt was an educated guess. You were right to call me on it.

[RanRan79]

Also, comparing Diana and Mary attendance is silly, they do not have comparable careers.... NO ONE expects Mary to draw like Diana, so the comparison is absurd and useless.

As the person who made the comparison, my point, which I tried to sum up in my last paragraph of that post, and apparently didn't do a good job of it since people cherry picked which part to have an issue with, was that neither RTL "side pickers"- the Rossers [[pro RTL) and the Wilsonites [[anti RTL)- has room to sling mud at either side. Diana took a career hit by doing the show and the Wilsonites take potshots at her career because of it, as evidenced in a post or three before my first post. My point about Mary is that even in a failed Diana tour Mary couldn't put those kinds of numbers in seats even if she did play arenas, so what room do they have to talk? Likewise, Mary walked away from RTL with public perception largely being in her corner. She looked like someone standing up for herself against the woman who has been kicking her down since the 1960s. And to a certain degree Diana helped that perception. Mary was smart enough to use RTL to her advantage. Diana was dumb enough to try to use RTL to inflate her ego, so how can the Rossers take shots at Mary for not participating? Of the two she may have been the smarter one. So the point is, no matter which side you are on, there is no room for throwing "shade" at either woman. RTL was what it was. But don't get it twisted, I wasn't running either lady down with my comments. I do not have that reputation on this board and I'm not about to start one because of the dreaded RTL topic.

[PeaceNHarmony]

That was only one of their shows. They played 14 shows before it was cancelled. Some shows sold very well. Madison Square Garden was sold out. That one show is probably a bigger crowd than all of Marys shows put together for the whole year.
That simply cannot be. Mary is the GREATEST STAHH EVEAHH!

[thanxal]

https://soulfuldetroit.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by vgalindo https://soulfuldetroit.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png
[[https://soulfuldetroit.com/showthread.php?p=406153#post406153)That was only one of their shows. They played 14 shows before it was cancelled. Some shows sold very well. Madison Square Garden was sold out. That one show is probably a bigger crowd than all of Marys shows put together for the whole year.


That simply cannot be. Mary is the GREATEST STAHH EVEAHH!

I get that some of you are reacting to outlandish statements, but can we not run Mary down? Just because outlandish and untrue statements are made on her behalf doesn't mean she is making them, nor condoning them.

[PeaceNHarmony]

I get that some of you are reacting to outlandish statements, but can we not run Mary down? Just because outlandish and untrue statements are made on her behalf doesn't mean she is making them, nor condoning them.
I'm not running Mary down; I'm agreeing with her fans here that she is the biggest recording star who ever lived! I just read somewhere that her solo recordings have outsold Streisand-Franklin-Ross AND Houston COMBINED! We must BOW! Jazz stations no longer play Holiday or Fitzgerald - they play MARY! AC stations have jeittisoned Streisand and Dion and supplanted with the solo hits of MARY! R&B and oldies stations no longer play Supremes, Mary J, etc. They play nonstop the HITS OF MARY! We must all get with the program and BOW DOWN TO MARY!

[vgalindo]

Wow, J-Rob... all these copies of Diana's solo albums re-released by Hip-OSelect/Universal must be figments of my opioid crisis. I also see in my hallucination "Diana Ross 1976" and "Diana and Marvin" on vinyl. Do you see them as well?

They also just released "Baby It's Me" on lavender vinyl, "The Boss" on red vinyl, and the "Diana" album on clear vinyl. And also the Chic mixes on a double vinyl. They are all truly wonderful. Somebody must be buying these because they keep releasing more and more.

[thanxal]

I'm not running Mary down; I'm agreeing with her fans here that she is the biggest recording star who ever lived! I just read somewhere that her solo recordings have outsold Streisand-Franklin-Ross AND Houston COMBINED! We must BOW!
I know...its frustrating.

[thanxal]

They also just released "Baby It's Me" on lavender vinyl, "The Boss" on red vinyl, and the "Diana" album on clear vinyl. And also the Chic mixes on a double vinyl. They are all truly wonderful. Somebody must be buying these because they keep releasing more and more.
What?!?!?!? How did I miss Baby Its Me?????. Off to Amazon I go. Damn, just when I thought this thread had no redeeming qualities. Thanks, Vgalindo!!!!

[PeaceNHarmony]

What?!?!?!? How did I miss Baby Its Me?????. Off to Amazon I go. Damn, just when I thought this thread had no redeeming qualities. Thanks, Vgalindo!!!!
VG always has good posts. I'm glad s/he hangs on here. And the Ross colour vinyls - I swoon. Just gorgeous.

[PeaceNHarmony]

I know...its frustrating.
Gotta have fun, right?! After all - it's just a music blog! Mary's not the problem; it's the fanatics.

[thanxal]

Gotta have fun, right?! After all - it's just a music blog!
Yes of course. The sarcasm was lost on me at first. Hard to tell on the inter tubes.

[PeaceNHarmony]

Yes of course. The sarcasm was lost on me at first. Hard to tell on the inter tubes.
I understand fully! I wish 'em all well. Just gotta have fun!

[bradsupremes]

I'll just leave this here. They've moved on. So should we.
13382

[RanRan79]

I'll just leave this here. They've moved on. So should we.

I second that emotion.

[vgalindo]

VG always has good posts. I'm glad s/he hangs on here. And the Ross colour vinyls - I swoon. Just gorgeous.
Thanks PeaceNHarmoney. I appreciate the comment.

[vgalindo]

What?!?!?!? How did I miss Baby Its Me?????. Off to Amazon I go. Damn, just when I thought this thread had no redeeming qualities. Thanks, Vgalindo!!!!
Your welcome Thanxal. It's really beautiful.

[luke]

Trust me that picture is not what it seems. A few people here know what really happened that day but Im glad we have a nice pic! I find it interesting the people who speak up for Mary are told to shut up and move on but not others. Now don't y'all forget we can talk about the Andantes and Other topics endlessly but NOT RTL! LMAO

[marv2]

Trust me that picture is not what it seems. A few people here know what really happened that day but Im glad we have a nice pic! I find it interesting the people who speak up for Mary are told to shut up and move on but not others. Now don't y'all forget we can talk about the Andantes and Other topics endlessly but NOT RTL! LMAO

We can talk about RTL as much as we want and no other member has the right to tell anyone to shut up. Blow it out your ear if you think you can!

[marv2]

Trust me that picture is not what it seems. A few people here know what really happened that day but Im glad we have a nice pic! I find it interesting the people who speak up for Mary are told to shut up and move on but not others. Now don't y'all forget we can talk about the Andantes and Other topics endlessly but NOT RTL! LMAO

Mary looks great doesn't she? Every 70 year old woman should look that good.

[TomatoTom123]

Damn! What happened here? Lol

Ahhh, sorry for being negative but it's this kinda stuff that makes me dislike The Supremes, all of 'em. I know it's bad, but it just puts me off. I mean, if I start forming an opinion about them, I feel like it'll just cause arguments. Ahhhh, sigh

Oh well. Great picture of the two ladies by the way. :D

[detmotownguy]

Mary looks great doesn't she? Every 70 year old woman should look that good.
A lot of Mary's beauty comes from within- she is a wonderful human being.

[detmotownguy]

Trust me that picture is not what it seems. A few people here know what really happened that day but Im glad we have a nice pic! I find it interesting the people who speak up for Mary are told to shut up and move on but not others. Now don't y'all forget we can talk about the Andantes and Other topics endlessly but NOT RTL! LMAO What you mean that pic isn't what it seems? They look happy and that is good enough for me as far as those two are concerned.

[luke]

That's why I said it's good to have a nice pic!

[bradsupremes]

What you mean that pic isn't what it seems? They look happy and that is good enough for me as far as those two are concerned.

Here's what happened. They were all onstage at the end. Mary placed a kiss on Diana's cheek. There's a photo of it. Diana is smiling at her. They talked privately for a bit backstage after the show. They took photos with the cast and creative team. Mary joined Berry and Diana at the After Party for photos and an interview. Mary went on in to the party. Diana left shortly after. That's what happened.

[blackguy69]

Marv and Luke. I like the way you voice your opinion but,unless you were there next to Mary and Diana and was privy to their conversation, don't try to start something where there is nothing to rant about. The same for the Ross fans who were thinking the same.

[marv2]

Marv and Luke. I like the way you voice your opinion but,unless you were there next to Mary and Diana and was privy to their conversation, don't try to start something where there is nothing to rant about. The same for the Ross fans who were thinking the same.

i didn't anything about that picture other than Mary looked hot. I saw and spoke to her after that event and everything was fine. I don't do what some one here do....pretend to read minds. I just ask the person directly if I have question.

[marv2]

That's why I said it's good to have a nice pic!

They should have put Mary more out front in that pic.....hehehehehehe! She sure has what's up front that counts! LOL!!!

[Boogiedown]

:rolleyes::rolleyes:
uh OK
I'm gonna try and get this thread back on track , but I have to back up a bit first:rolleyes::rolleyes: with some unfinished business

:eek:

[Boogiedown]

As has been mentioned on this site before...there are Beatles songs that only feature 1 Beatle but theres never any questioning why or how...why is it such a drama with the Supremes...i dont get it.

My new answer would be this is a Motown site . If Beatles fans were lucky enough to have a board of their own like this, you can bet there'd be plenty of ongoing drama on it about who recorded what and why .:p




Jimi LaLumia:
who cares why? It's done, a million years ago and its not going to be undun[[that was a Guess Who song)

I , for one, care , that's why I started a thread about it . All the Motown stuff being discussed around here can't be undun... so, now what???

and The Beatles were NOT a creative collective, not according to George Harrison or Ringo Starr[[George was the combative ,put upon Ballard of The Beatles, Ringo was Mary Wilson) and they have all agreed that Paul was Miss Ross with all those 'Yesterday" "Michelle" solo singles that said Beatles on em; the other three ultimately banded together against Paul towards the end, watch the movie "Let it Be"..

My point here would still be as a creative collective of sorts , no matter the process therein , that collective group has the right to decide how they want to present their resulting works. The Supremes just showed up as singers to be directed by others as such. Now had any of them written material for the group , let's pick Diana, had Diana written a song of any caliper, much less ones as good as MICHELE and YESTERDAY, she, like Paul , should indeed have the primary say as to how that song should be presented and by whom.


Marv 2:
Just a singing group? I would have loved to see the Beatles try to "perform" all of that specific choreography and harmonies for all of those songs the Supremes recorded!

Well first of all, each Beatle was a little busy when on stage being a musician , and as far as choreography ?? You mean the swinging of arms and trading places occasionally? :confused: Or have I missed something? :confused: And yes "just a singing group" and not a very distinctive one at that it seems , with what is it, maybe a dozen interchangeable participants that even now -all these years later- no one seems to know absolutely for sure who it is singing what!! :confused::rolleyes::o:p



--------------




https://soulfuldetroit.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Boogiedown https://soulfuldetroit.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png [[https://soulfuldetroit.com/showthread.php?p=405829#post405829)
Now that you've brought it up mowsville , you've got me curious, did other Motown groups feature solo songs where the other members were totally absent?

:confused::confused:


reese:
Off the top of my head, I can think of some Gladys Knight and the Pips recordings that do not feature the Pips, like their versions of VALLEY OF THE DOLLS, FOR ONCE IN MY LIFE, and HELP ME MAKE IT THROUGH THE NIGHT, which became a hit single.

Martha's version of DIDN'T WE has no Vandellas.

Ah yes - Gladys Knight , :cool: I had posted HELP ME MAKE IT on another thread recently and clearly she is by herself. That group seems to have been the exception by design : it was always GLADYS KNIGHT and the Pips ... wasn't it??
thanks!

[RanRan79]

Damn! What happened here? Lol

Ahhh, sorry for being negative but it's this kinda stuff that makes me dislike The Supremes, all of 'em. I know it's bad, but it just puts me off. I mean, if I start forming an opinion about them, I feel like it'll just cause arguments. Ahhhh, sigh

Oh well. Great picture of the two ladies by the way. :D

Tom if you don't like the Supremes because they aren't your cup of tea, it's cool. But if you dig the Supremes, keep diggin them. But don't let the dumb shit you read on here put you off such a great group. It's the people making the comments, not the Supremes themselves.

[RanRan79]

Here's what happened. They were all onstage at the end. Mary placed a kiss on Diana's cheek. There's a photo of it. Diana is smiling at her. They talked privately for a bit backstage after the show. They took photos with the cast and creative team. Mary joined Berry and Diana at the After Party for photos and an interview. Mary went on in to the party. Diana left shortly after. That's what happened.

Whether that's what happened or not, this thread has just highlighted the fact that there are indeed certain weirdos...I mean fans...who are invested in the Mary and Diana feud nonsense. I for one hope it was indeed a beautiful reunion for the ladies and that they someday soon come together again for a happy occasion.

[RanRan79]

unless you were there next to Mary and Diana and was privy to their conversation

You mean they weren't? Interesting...

[RanRan79]

And yes "just a singing group" and not a very distinctive one at that it seems , with what is it, maybe a dozen interchangeable participants that even now -all these years later- no one seems to know absolutely for sure who it is singing what!!


Oh Boogie, you were on a roll until you messed up. Lol The Supremes not distinctive? Bullshit. There are really only a handful of songs during Florence's tenure that there is any real question about because she was so distinctive as a vocalist and when she isn't clearly present the questions arise.

[Boogiedown]

well yes --- 'during Florence's tenure'....

[PeaceNHarmony]

Damn! What happened here? Lol

Ahhh, sorry for being negative but it's this kinda stuff that makes me dislike The Supremes, all of 'em. I know it's bad, but it just puts me off. I mean, if I start forming an opinion about them, I feel like it'll just cause arguments. Ahhhh, sigh

Oh well. Great picture of the two ladies by the way. :D
Same as always, Tom, but this time a little more fun! I know how you feel, though. Remember it has nothing to do with the performers - it's the audience. Countdown to Undisputed Truth new cd set!!

[TomatoTom123]

Tom if you don't like the Supremes because they aren't your cup of tea, it's cool. But if you dig the Supremes, keep diggin them. But don't let the dumb shit you read on here put you off such a great group. It's the people making the comments, not the Supremes themselves.

Hey RanRan, I do like The Supremes -- but I like The Supremes' music. I don't like all the gossipy nonsense and arguments that seem to come with them. You're right, it is dumb, and it's not The Supremes themselves doing it, but I just get fed up with it all. Also, I feel like there are other groups out there that don't get the attention they deserve, while The Supremes get so much! And half of it is negative attention if you know what I mean

Anyway, I shall try and wade through the bullshit and enjoy The Supremes for the great group they are. LOL

[TomatoTom123]

Same as always, Tom, but this time a little more fun! I know how you feel, though. Remember it has nothing to do with the performers - it's the audience. Countdown to Undisputed Truth new cd set!!

A little more fun, lol. Yea, it grates, even though as you say it's not The Supremes themselves doing it.

And HELL YEAH, PNH, UNDISPUTED TRUTH CD IN 2 WEEKS, WOOOOO! Lol, you made my day by mentioning it, thanks PNH ;)

[PeaceNHarmony]

A little more fun, lol. Yea, it grates, even though as you say it's not The Supremes themselves doing it.

And HELL YEAH, PNH, UNDISPUTED TRUTH CD IN 2 WEEKS, WOOOOO! Lol, you made my day by mentioning it, thanks PNH ;)
... I've been on moratorium / withdrawal from not listening to my French label CD of 'Face To Face' since you alerted us to this new release so it can be 'fresher' when I get my copy. We can have a transcontinental, virtual listening party!

[TomatoTom123]

... I've been on moratorium / withdrawal from not listening to my French label CD of 'Face To Face' since you alerted us to this new release so it can be 'fresher' when I get my copy. We can have a transcontinental, virtual listening party!

Haaa, me too. I'm trying not to listen to any Undisputed Truth so I'll love the CD that little bit more when I get it. Actually, PNH, have you pre-ordered? I want to but haven't really pre-ordered anything before so don't know... also I need to pick the best place to get it from.

And transcontinental virtual listening parties, they're my favourite! Lol :)

[RanRan79]

well yes --- 'during Florence's tenure'....

LOL Boogie you crazy. But to be fair, there really is very little question during the DRATS years too. No one hardly ever mistakes Mary and Cindy together for the Andantes. Its usually pretty clear which singers are doing what, so I think that might work in their favor in regards to being distinctive. IMO the Supremes with Flo, and the Andantes had a similar sound, although the Andantes sound to my ears more technically polished. But I think that's why there's some controversy on certain songs. Well that and the fact that some folks like to make a controversy in order to feed the narrative that Diana Ross was the Supremes and Flo and Mary weren't actually needed. Anything to start to some shit, is apparently the motto of some folks.

[RanRan79]

Hey RanRan, I do like The Supremes -- but I like The Supremes' music. I don't like all the gossipy nonsense and arguments that seem to come with them. You're right, it is dumb, and it's not The Supremes themselves doing it, but I just get fed up with it all. Also, I feel like there are other groups out there that don't get the attention they deserve, while The Supremes get so much! And half of it is negative attention if you know what I mean

Anyway, I shall try and wade through the bullshit and enjoy The Supremes for the great group they are. LOL

Tom the gossip discussions wouldn't be so bad if they didn't always devolve into arguments. I would argue that the Supremes are interesting for their music as well as their story and so we should be able to discuss them both. The problem is when people can't even state how they disagree without being nasty about it. Or how some folks like to pretend they were present for things they know damn well they weren't around for. There are two groups of people that grate on my nerves around here and they have a lot in common: they want everyone to believe that Diana Ross and Mary Wilson were the daughters of God and were crucified for our sins. I still believe some of them have rooms in their homes where they go specifically to pray to statues or photos of Diana and Mary. It's scary really.

As for other groups, there are groups out there that don't get the attention they deserve, but that aint on the Supremes or their fans. It's up to fans of groups and artists who feel like they aren't being discussed much to start those conversations. The Supremes were the biggest American group in the world during Diana's tenure so the Supremes will obviously get a lot of attention on a Motown forum. If this were an Atlantic Records forum you can probably bet that Aretha would get more threads than say Doris Troy. It is what it is.

[vgalindo]

LOL Boogie you crazy. But to be fair, there really is very little question during the DRATS years too. No one hardly ever mistakes Mary and Cindy together for the Andantes. Its usually pretty clear which singers are doing what, so I think that might work in their favor in regards to being distinctive. IMO the Supremes with Flo, and the Andantes had a similar sound, although the Andantes sound to my ears more technically polished. But I think that's why there's some controversy on certain songs. Well that and the fact that some folks like to make a controversy in order to feed the narrative that Diana Ross was the Supremes and Flo and Mary weren't actually needed. Anything to start to some shit, is apparently the motto of some folks.
But at the time of the release everybody thought it was the Supremes. Many people were shocked when they found out that Flo, Mary, or Cindy were not on some of the records. So it wasn't really pretty clear at the time. I always thought "Someday Well be together" sounded like Mary and Cindy until it was later revealed they were not on the record.

[thanxal]

I still believe some of them have rooms in their homes where they go specifically to pray to statues or photos of Diana and Mary. It's scary really.

I literally lol'd. That is hilarious [[and sadly true).

[RanRan79]

But at the time of the release everybody thought it was the Supremes. Many people were shocked when they found out that Flo, Mary, or Cindy were not on some of the records. So it wasn't really pretty clear at the time. I always thought "Someday Well be together" sounded like Mary and Cindy until it was later revealed they were not on the record.

That's understandable though. I imagine it wasn't common knowledge in regards to any musical group, that the singers could be replaced with random people. So who would've heard those songs and assumed it wasn't Mary and Cindy? Especially considering that the Andantes became pseudo Supremes on record when Cindy came into the group, someone who's voice wasn't familiar to the general public like Florence's was. But today we know what we know, and what we know is that, as good as Mary and Cindy were, they sound nothing like the Andantes.

[RanRan79]

I literally lol'd. That is hilarious [[and sadly true).

Lol It's scary though, isn't it? I love both women for the great music they've brought into my life, but gee whiz, I can't remember the last check either one sent me. I can't remember the time either woman saved my life. I have no reason to attack my fellow SD peers over these women, so I don't understand when others do it. I'll never understand that. [[And they never answer the question when it's posed.)

[thanxal]

so I don't understand when others do it. I'll never understand that. [[And they never answer the question when it's posed.)
Look to your left. See that wall? Beat your head against it. You'll get the same effect as trying to get through to them. I just wish we'd focus more on the music and less on the meta. But at the same time, I'm not going to sit around and let them turn this into a hate filled site, so its about balance, I suppose.

[TomatoTom123]

Tom the gossip discussions wouldn't be so bad if they didn't always devolve into arguments. I would argue that the Supremes are interesting for their music as well as their story and so we should be able to discuss them both. The problem is when people can't even state how they disagree without being nasty about it. Or how some folks like to pretend they were present for things they know damn well they weren't around for. There are two groups of people that grate on my nerves around here and they have a lot in common: they want everyone to believe that Diana Ross and Mary Wilson were the daughters of God and were crucified for our sins. I still believe some of them have rooms in their homes where they go specifically to pray to statues or photos of Diana and Mary. It's scary really.

As for other groups, there are groups out there that don't get the attention they deserve, but that aint on the Supremes or their fans. It's up to fans of groups and artists who feel like they aren't being discussed much to start those conversations. The Supremes were the biggest American group in the world during Diana's tenure so the Supremes will obviously get a lot of attention on a Motown forum. If this were an Atlantic Records forum you can probably bet that Aretha would get more threads than say Doris Troy. It is what it is.

Damn, RanRan, you're right again. :D

It has to be about the music for me but the story behind the artists and everything is fascinating too. But, as you say, it can't be discussed without arguments and bitterness [[et cetera) so it puts me off. And those two groups... I feel like you either have to be a Mary fanatic or a Diana fanatic... you can't possibly like both Diana and Mary. That's why sometimes I feel like it's easier to like neither. Sorry for being so negative, phew

And that last point I made was probably me just being bitter, lol. Of course The Supremes were Motown's most famous and successful group, so what can you expect on a Motown forum? Hella Supremes threads, lol ;)

[Boogiedown]

https://soulfuldetroit.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by RanRan79 https://soulfuldetroit.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png [[https://soulfuldetroit.com/showthread.php?p=406338#post406338)


LOL Boogie you crazy. But to be fair, there really is very little question during the DRATS years too. No one hardly ever mistakes Mary and Cindy together for the Andantes. Its usually pretty clear which singers are doing what, so I think that might work in their favor in regards to being distinctive. IMO the Supremes with Flo, and the Andantes had a similar sound, although the Andantes sound to my ears more technically polished. But I think that's why there's some controversy on certain songs. Well that and the fact that some folks like to make a controversy in order to feed the narrative that Diana Ross was the Supremes and Flo and Mary weren't actually needed. Anything to start to some shit, is apparently the motto of some folks.




But at the time of the release everybody thought it was the Supremes. Many people were shocked when they found out that Flo, Mary, or Cindy were not on some of the records. So it wasn't really pretty clear at the time. I always thought "Someday Well be together" sounded like Mary and Cindy until it was later revealed they were not on the record.

yes vg, that would be my point :)


Now back to the thread!!!


Paul wrote it and then sang it solo . Diana Ross followed suit:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQICzRANMfw

[rod_rick]

But at the time of the release everybody thought it was the Supremes. Many people were shocked when they found out that Flo, Mary, or Cindy were not on some of the records. So it wasn't really pretty clear at the time. I always thought "Someday Well be together" sounded like Mary and Cindy until it was later revealed they were not on the record.

I have to agree with you about Some Day We'll Be together. I heard the song yesterday morning and whoever the backing singers were sound was very close to Mary and Cindy.
Flo had and very distinct sound especially in live performance but when there is a producer in charge of vocals looking for a certain sound they will have singers switch parts, sing softer or in the case of Where Did Our Love Go have them stand far away from the mic.
The Supremes were versatile and could sing anything. Their catalog of songs is proof of that.

[RanRan79]

Look to your left. See that wall? Beat your head against it. You'll get the same effect as trying to get through to them. I just wish we'd focus more on the music and less on the meta. But at the same time, I'm not going to sit around and let them turn this into a hate filled site, so its about balance, I suppose.

Lol I know what you mean. I'll try to avoid the biggest offenders though. No good getting sucked into their nonsense. It would just be nice if one of them decided to let us into why they go so hard for these two women. But perhaps their silence in wake of the question says all that needs to be said anyway.

[RanRan79]

And that last point I made was probably me just being bitter, lol. Of course The Supremes were Motown's most famous and successful group, so what can you expect on a Motown forum? Hella Supremes threads, lol ;)

I get it Tom. But there are others who make the same complaint but aren't as cool as you when they do it.:cool: There was a Marvin Gaye thread not too long ago and a couple of people came in saying how glad they were for a non Diana Ross thread [[although I don't think they used her name, and the whole thing was a little strange to me because I notice nearly, if not an equal amount of Mary Wilson threads, but I guess depending on which side of the stage you stand on will determine which former Supreme thread is offensive) and how seeing her name makes them not want to come to the forum and what not. But what I don't understand is that if you want to talk about someone other than Diana Ross, why yo ass aint create a thread to talk about someone else? I guess it's easier to bitch and moan than it is to take a moment and create the thread you want to see. Tom you've created threads about a variety of Motown subjects, so my criticism doesn't apply to you.

[RanRan79]

Paul wrote it and then sang it solo . Diana Ross followed suit:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQICzRANMfw

I'm not a Beatles fan. They were incredible songwriters, but as singers they do absolutely nothing for me. There's not really one song they recorded themselves that I like. But again, their songwriting skills were on point. Lyrically and melodically "Yesterday" as presented here is a nice one. Diana does a nice job with it. But it's one of the two songs on the Symphony album that I tend to skip over, especially back in the day. I like it a little more now than I did when I first got this album in the 90s. [[The other song I skip is "Without a Song".)

[RanRan79]

I have to agree with you about Some Day We'll Be together. I heard the song yesterday morning and whoever the backing singers were sound was very close to Mary and Cindy.
Flo had and very distinct sound especially in live performance but when there is a producer in charge of vocals looking for a certain sound they will have singers switch parts, sing softer or in the case of Where Did Our Love Go have them stand far away from the mic.
The Supremes were versatile and could sing anything. Their catalog of songs is proof of that.

I still don't know how anyone could mistake Mary and Cindy for the Waters. But agree with everything else you've said. They were a very versatile group. I think that's part of why I love them so.

[vgalindo]

I still don't know how anyone could mistake Mary and Cindy for the Waters. But agree with everything else you've said. They were a very versatile group. I think that's part of why I love them so.
So when "Somday" was released back in 1969 you knew it wasn't Mary or Cindy?

[TomatoTom123]

I get it Tom. But there are others who make the same complaint but aren't as cool as you when they do it.:cool:

Ha, thanks RanRan :cool:


There was a Marvin Gaye thread not too long ago and a couple of people came in saying how glad they were for a non Diana Ross thread [[although I don't think they used her name, and the whole thing was a little strange to me because I notice nearly, if not an equal amount of Mary Wilson threads, but I guess depending on which side of the stage you stand on will determine which former Supreme thread is offensive) and how seeing her name makes them not want to come to the forum and what not. But what I don't understand is that if you want to talk about someone other than Diana Ross, why yo ass aint create a thread to talk about someone else? I guess it's easier to bitch and moan than it is to take a moment and create the thread you want to see. Tom you've created threads about a variety of Motown subjects, so my criticism doesn't apply to you.

Hey thanks again RanRan, I try and do threads about anything and everything [[interestingly I don't think I've done a Supremes one yet...) for a bit of variety. I remember that too about the Marvin thread. I do understand the frustration however, when Supremes threads that just cause arguments get more replies than threads about the music of a lesser known Motown act, for example. But if my non-Supremes thread ain't gettin' no replies, heck I start replin' myself. Lol :)

[jobeterob]

So when "Somday" was released back in 1969 you knew it wasn't Mary or Cindy?

Heck, I thought Johnny Bristol was Mary singing

I had no idea that the Andantes were being used ever and especially when it turned out it was as early as Run Run Run

[vgalindo]

Heck, I thought Johnny Bristol was Mary singing

I had no idea that the Andantes were being used ever and especially when it turned out it was as early as Run Run Run
I did too. Lol....

[Boogiedown]

Heck, I thought Johnny Bristol was Mary singing

I had no idea that the Andantes were being used ever and especially when it turned out it was as early as Run Run Run

Didn't know his name , but I could certainly tell that there was a man singing on that Supremes record : it didn't strike me as odd at the time though :confused:, probably it should have !! :o Ha!

As for The Andantes singing along, its apparently amazing they were on so few Supremes songs . It seems their added vocal help was a common practice at Hitsville :




from wiki:
The SupremesThey appeared as backing vocalists on seven singles for The Supremes. These releases include:



"Children's Christmas Song"
"In and Out of Love [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_and_Out_of_Love_%28The_Supremes_song%29)"
"Forever Came Today [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forever_Came_Today)"
"Love Child [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_Child_%28song%29)"
"I'm Livin' in Shame [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I%27m_Livin%27_in_Shame)"
"The Composer [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Composer)"
"No Matter What Sign You Are [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Matter_What_Sign_You_Are)"

Martha & the VandellasThey appeared as backing vocalists on twelve singles for Martha & the Vandellas. These releases include:



"You've Been in Love Too Long [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You%27ve_Been_in_Love_Too_Long)"
"Love [[Makes Me Do Foolish Things) [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_%28Makes_Me_Do_Foolish_Things%29)" [[B-Side of "You've Been in Love Too Long")
"My Baby Loves Me [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Baby_Loves_Me_%28Martha_and_the_Vandellas_song% 29)" [[with the Four Tops [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Tops))
"I'm Ready for Love [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I%27m_Ready_for_Love)"
"Jimmy Mack [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Mack)"
"I Promise to Wait My Love [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Promise_to_Wait_My_Love)"
"Forget Me Not [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forget_Me_Not_%28Martha_and_the_Vandellas_song%29)" [[B-Side of "I Promise to Wait My Love")
"I Can't Dance to That Music You're Playing [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Can%27t_Dance_to_That_Music_You%27re_Playing)" [[with Syreeta Wright [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syreeta_Wright))
"[[We've Got) Honey Love [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%28We%27ve_Got%29_Honey_Love)"
"Taking My Love [[And Leaving Me)"
"I Should Be Proud [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Should_Be_Proud)"
"Bless You [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bless_You_%28song%29)"

The MarvelettesThey appeared as backing vocalists on 14 singles for the Marvelettes. These releases include:



"Tie a String Around Your Finger" [[b-side of "As Long as I Know He's Mine")
"I'll Keep Holding On [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I%27ll_Keep_Holding_On)"
"Don't Mess with Bill [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don%27t_Mess_with_Bill)"
"You're The One"
"The Hunter Gets Captured by the Game [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hunter_Gets_Captured_by_the_Game)"
"When You're Young and in Love [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_You%27re_Young_and_in_Love)"
"My Baby Must Be a Magician [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Baby_Must_Be_a_Magician)"
"Here I Am Baby"
"Destination: Anywhere"
"What's Easy for Two Is So Hard for One [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What%27s_Easy_for_Two_Is_So_Hard_for_One)"
"I'm Gonna Hold On As Long As I Can"
"That's How Heartaches Are Made"
"Marionette"
"A Breath-Taking Guy [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Breathtaking_Guy)"



and I just noticed something . The word "singles" is being applied here. Doesn't say anything about album cuts. :rolleyes::confused:

[Boogiedown]

Lyrically and melodically "Yesterday" as presented here is a nice one. Diana does a nice job with it.



Yes its nice. I think the dancy harpsicord or whatever that is, throws off the somber mood somewhat and Diana's repeated pronunciation of 'something' as 'somethin' is an irritant, but it's OK.
I still don't know why she has to sing it alone , unless Diana insisted "that's the way PAUL sang it!":p especially considering that when they go on to perform it live as a group they are going to have to arrange it to include the other two anyway ....???:confused:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aw2a2Vo1X30

[RanRan79]

So when "Somday" was released back in 1969 you knew it wasn't Mary or Cindy?

My parents were 11 & 10 years old when "Someday" was released, so short answer: no, I did not know this or anything else.;) Perhaps there's some confusion about where I'm coming from on this issue and I didn't do a good job of explaining myself before. My apologies. In 1969 I don't expect for anyone to assume that there is anyone else other than actual factual Supremes, Vandellas, Marvelettes, Four Tops, Temptations on those records. The music world was still many years away from Mary Wilson's Andantes revelations in "Dreamgirl", the Millie Vanilli farce, and the Mary Jane Girl [[can't remember which one) suit claiming she was either the voice on Paula Abdul's Forever Your Girl album or she was singing along with her [[can't remember all of the particulars). So while I do think that if anyone paid close attention to DRATS live television performances back in the day and compared them to the records, especially "Someday", one would hear a big difference, I don't expect for anyone in 1969 to think otherwise. But today is a different story. I don't see how anyone can listen to "Someday" and think the Waters sound anything like Mary and Cindy. To my ears those two sets of singers have an extremely different sound. Hopefully my point is a little more clearer now. Sometimes I think something gets lost from my brain to my fingers when I type. Lol

[RanRan79]

Ha, thanks RanRan :cool:



Hey thanks again RanRan, I try and do threads about anything and everything [[interestingly I don't think I've done a Supremes one yet...) for a bit of variety. I remember that too about the Marvin thread. I do understand the frustration however, when Supremes threads that just cause arguments get more replies than threads about the music of a lesser known Motown act, for example. But if my non-Supremes thread ain't gettin' no replies, heck I start replin' myself. Lol :)

One of the funniest things about the Marvin Gaye thread was that He Who Shall Not Be Named, one of the biggest shit starters in Diana Ross and Mary Wilson threads was in the MG thread talking shit like he don't be all up and through these threads. Lol I was going to comment about everything but I knew it would derail the thread into nonsense and I wanted to keep the subject Marvin. But I think I ended up being turned off by the comments that I didn't even bother to comment on my favorite male singer, Mr. Marvin Gaye.

Anyway, I enjoy your variety posts. Keep 'em coming. I think a lot of us appreciate them.

[RanRan79]

As for The Andantes singing along, its apparently amazing they were on so few Supremes songs . It seems their added vocal help was a common practice at Hitsville :

I don't think it's amazing at all. I think I said in this thread [[or maybe another thread) that the use of the Andantes seemed to be at the preference of the producer. Most of the Supremes stuff when Flo was in the group was produced by HDH and it seems like they preferred Flo and Mary. HDH weren't consistent producers for Martha and the Vandellas or Marvelettes, and look how many singles are being attributed to the Andantes. [[I'm HEAVILY disputing "I'm Ready For Love" being the Andantes. Has this been confirmed or is this the opinion of a random person?) I think Smokey preferred the Andantes on his productions. To me the use of the Andantes as faux members of Motown's girl groups is weird. Some argue that using them was a time saver, but why no standins for the male groups? Makes no sense.

[RanRan79]

Yes its nice. I think the dancy harpsicord or whatever that is, throws off the somber mood somewhat and Diana's repeated pronunciation of 'something' as 'somethin' is an irritant, but it's OK.
I still don't know why she has to sing it alone , unless Diana insisted "that's the way PAUL sang it!":p especially considering that when they go on to perform it live as a group they are going to have to arrange it to include the other two anyway ....???:confused:


I actually hate when she puts emphasis on the "g" when singing, knowing damn well that her natural inclination would be to clip it, like she does in "Yesterday". So I prefer it this way. I'm betting that the idea for "Yesterday" being a solo was the producers attempting to recreate what Paul did. Background vocals would've enhanced this version IMO.