Instead of Why Do Fools Fall in Love

[Koach]

If Diana Ross had never done a remake of that song as her first main release from RCA, which one would you have picked for her? I would've liked her to do a faster-paced, 80's-styled cover of either Lightnin' Strikes [[Lou Christie), My Love [[Petula Clark) or I Say a Little Prayer for You.

[jobeterob]

From Petula Clark, I would take Who Am I or Don't Sleep in the Subway.

From Dionne Warwick, I would take the Valley of the Dolls theme or Windows of the World.

From Lou Christie, I would have taken the medley of It's Only Make Believe/Since I Don't Have You that he did with Lesley Gore and with Diana I would have paired perhaps Lionel on that again.

[jobeterob]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfH5tdKqNh8

That song.

[soulster]

"Maybe I Know" by Leslie Gore?

[theboyfromxtown]

Rob

No way can I allow you to take Lou Christie out of the duet! Lou and Diana could do it together....I dare say it will remind them of their times on the tour bus on the Caravan of Stars tour......!!

[smark21]

Wasn't one of the reasons why she chose to cover Why Do Fools Fall in Love was to acknowledge the influence that Frankie Lymon had on her when she was a kid and first getting into singing?

[topdiva1]

I would love to see Ross, even today do Valley of The Dolls - a Warwick song is almost impossible to improve on - ask Rere and the late Luther - they came close - but Warwick is the only one that can do Warwick - the same statement applies to many others like Ross - it is hard to redo a Diana Ross song.

PS I do however bow down to Micheal McDonald's remake of REFLECTIONS - just fabulous - but - we are talking Mr. Micheal McDonald here - who did a great job on ALL his Motown covers.

[jobeterob]

We should hear more about Lou and Diana; seems to me I constantly read that all the world was after Lou - both men and women.

[RossHolloway]

She should have gotten back with Chic for a follow up album..

[theboyfromxtown]

Wasn't one of the reasons why she chose to cover Why Do Fools Fall in Love was to acknowledge the influence that Frankie Lymon had on her when she was a kid and first getting into singing?

Of course, we only found that out when the 45 was released! Reminds me of the time when Diana was lavishing accolades on that "Working Overtime" CD. As much as I took it as just "promotional talk", it was certainly true because pretty much all music fans of that era were influenced by Frankie Lymon.

[theboyfromxtown]

We should hear more about Lou and Diana; seems to me I constantly read that all the world was after Lou - both men and women.

Is that so! Wow! And there was me thinking I was the only one!

[jobeterob]

John, you are definitely a bad one!

[nomis]

she tried to get Chic for her first RCA LP but she wanted "creative control" i.e. final say on mixes but Chic were still fuming over Russ's overhaul of their work so it was stalemate..and in typical Diana fashion she thought "you know what? I will produce it myself" and surrounded herself with talent to allow to accomplish the goal..
It was a left of field choice to Go with Fools - she was on a string of hip,contempary Rn B singles and she went back to her roots and scored another major hit in the process..
She used to sing Fools on the street corners where she lived along with "There goes My Baby" which she would later cover to plush affect..If it hadnt been Fools it would have been something similar in the doo wop vein..

[marybrewster]

Hey Kamasu; where is your "this thread has nothing to do with Motown" post? LOLz.

[rovereab]

I think that Why Do Fools was a spot on choice as it was upbeat and "announced" a positive start to a new post-Motown era. Perhaps More Today Than Yesterday would have been a good choice given its similar upbeat style and Diana clearly likes the song as it was included on her last album.

Eamonn

[captainjames]

"Fools" was a good release for Diana and a good start with a new company but, I was hoping at this point that she would have went back to Bernard and Niles or even Lionel Richie. However, it was a clean break and with something new to sing and something new to prove as only Diana does.

[nomis]

She was vindicated...She had gone through hell getting Motown to promote The Boss LP..they told her working with Chic would flop..well the chicken came home to roost suddenly Suzanne De passe wants to be her best friend on award shows and her tv special..Motown dropped the ball and let her make money somewhere else..and that whole Motown line of.-we-stayed-with-you-through-the hard-times is bull...she had given them 18 number ones and she had a few thousand dollars to her name..their petty squabbles over her wanting her own office space and refusing to pay for The Boss tour..good on her she sure showed them..to not trust that magical talent the same way they let Michael Jackson go..the fools

[detmotownguy]

I do like how she took control of her financial destiny and started ANAID. It appears that she did alot better financially when she took control versus having Motown handlings her business affairs. Only having a few hundred thousand in the bank at the end of the day is not much considering how hard BG worked those girls. I wonder if Motown still had that antiquated accounting system where all the costs of promotion including drinks in a casino were deducted from the girls accounts. therefore Diane and others got screwed. it is understandable that it really is none of our business, but she did discuss it in her book. In the end, where did all the money go?

[jobeterob]

I'm sure all their costs, drinks and all, got scooped from them and every other artist of that era, Motown and otherwise. And I'm sure that even today, all costs are recovered from the artist for recording and promoting. The difference is that the artists are separately represented legally and accounting wise and all the rest of what is going on can be handled outside the recording company. And these days, the recording companies are barely surviving anyway. It's a different ballgame now.

[nomis]

the day she slapped Berry in Rome changed the dynamics...the bond of trust was broken..he told her if she walked out he would never make another film with her and he meant it and followed through on the threat...He saw them as an unbreakable team..she saw him as an over domineering dictactor..after "the slap" she wouldnt listen to him..He pulled the plug on her to the level of refusing to fund rehersals on her tour..she felt songs from The Wiz she was singing live needed more work he said well Motown aint paying for it..their spats backstage became public..she cried feeling Motown wasnt backing her the way it had..when the invoices came in for the Boss tour expenses he said "send them to her new office she can pay"..this must have worked her nerves as she struggled to save her declining career as Donna Summer mania took over..But her instincts served her well..get Nick and Val,,get Nile and Bernard..ultimatley Berrys coolness pushed her to put her career back on track...

[detmotownguy]

Did BG really care for her, or was it all about control?

[topdiva1]

She was vindicated...She had gone through hell getting Motown to promote The Boss LP..they told her working with Chic would flop..well the chicken came home to roost suddenly Suzanne De passe wants to be her best friend on award shows and her tv special..Motown dropped the ball and let her make money somewhere else..and that whole Motown line of.-we-stayed-with-you-through-the hard-times is bull...she had given them 18 number ones and she had a few thousand dollars to her name..their petty squabbles over her wanting her own office space and refusing to pay for The Boss tour..good on her she sure showed them..to not trust that magical talent the same way they let Michael Jackson go..the fools

Well put - I understand on her next CD she is considering covering When Will I See You Again by The Three Degrees - I do not believe that any or many others have tried this difficult song.

[topdiva1]

I'm sure all their costs, drinks and all, got scooped from them and every other artist of that era, Motown and otherwise. And I'm sure that even today, all costs are recovered from the artist for recording and promoting. The difference is that the artists are separately represented legally and accounting wise and all the rest of what is going on can be handled outside the recording company. And these days, the recording companies are barely surviving anyway. It's a different ballgame now.

At the end of the day Tony Turner syas - Miss Ross was treated probaby worse than any other star at motown in the financial department. He states that Ross got robbed just like every body else - she was handled no better than Mary Wilson - just worked and pushed harder - thus becoming the unknowing CASH COW for Berry.

It is indeed a shame - that this happened to her and all the others - Gordy was no father figure - unless he thought of himself as the worse part of Joe Jackson.

[detmotownguy]

Oh no !!!!!! Considering the "When Will I See You Again" thread...too funny. On a side note and speaking of cover songs.......although not a huge Ross fan, am I the only one who likes the Sups version of Stormy.
jon

[topdiva1]

Did BG really care for her, or was it all about control?


Even after reading Gordy's Too Be Loved - it accurs to many that he cared only for himself and MONEY MONEY MONEY.

After all he claimed he wrote MONEY - check out the words - that should tell you about how he was feeling in the early days - and as a recluse not much has changed.

[topdiva1]

Oh no !!!!!! Considering the "When Will I See You Again" thread...too funny. On a side note and speaking of cover songs.......although not a huge Ross fan, am I the only one who likes the Sups version of Stormy.
jon

Even as a non Ross fan - you can always enjoy the over all effort of the group, The Supremes - after all that still remains her foundation, on which a fabulous career was built and fought for.

[detmotownguy]

Didn't Mary mention in her book that she thought BG was too rough on her or something to that effect? But there was certainly an large ego exchange between the two.....a fairly complicated relationship......

[topdiva1]

Didn't Mary mention in her book that she thought BG was too rough on her or something to that effect? But there was certainly an large ego exchange between the two.....a fairly complicated relationship......


As you research Motown deeper - you will find that is was not that complicated, just unfair, - it was RULED by a dictator - some say even a would be pimp - but I wouldn't know all That. hehehehe

[detmotownguy]

I am wondering since many of the players are most likely now in the last decade of their careers and will retire, will another book come out that is not so nice? Or is Raynoma's book is sufficient as the truth? Is their more to tell that would really make a difference?
jon

[miss_lish]

What I found compelling about all of this is even to this day, Miss Ross credits Berry for giving her her career. She always [[with the exception of the Barbara Walters RTL interview, which I wish she wouldn't have done, and she probably wouldn't have, if she weren't drinking at the time) take the high road. A true class act.

[theboyfromxtown]

Oh no !!!!!! Considering the "When Will I See You Again" thread...too funny. On a side note and speaking of cover songs.......although not a huge Ross fan, am I the only one who likes the Sups version of Stormy.
jon

The song is HUGE in Northern Soul circles...and I mean HUGE.

[detmotownguy]

I like her somewhat lower register and the backgrounds are great...

[theboyfromxtown]

Well put - I understand on her next CD she is considering covering When Will I See You Again by The Three Degrees - I do not believe that any or many others have tried this difficult song.

TopDiva1

Have you bought Shelia Ferguson's most recent CD release "A New Kind Of Medicine"? I have to say it's fabulous because it is. However, thoughout the CD, there is a monologue from Shelia who talks about many things. When she talks of "When Will I See You Again".....oh, that was so simple to sing....no effort etc. I don't think she thought too highly of the song either.

If you dont have the CD, I would certainly recommend it.

Try this song..it's a ballad. But the monologue has to be heard in the context of the individual songs. I bought this CD when it came out and I haven't bought any CD of new music since then. That's how highly I recommend it.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POOZSvn18hU&feature=related

[topdiva1]

I am wondering since many of the players are most likely now in the last decade of their careers and will retire, will another book come out that is not so nice? Or is Raynoma's book is sufficient as the truth? Is their more to tell that would really make a difference?
jon

There is a lot more to tell - but legally would it be wise - and would it even be believed. From what I been told we know really nothing more than they want us to - unlike today's stars that put most of it out there - they have, even amongst themselves in there own books - stuck to a tried and true formula - of tidbits, love, sadness, glory, love and fame.

[topdiva1]

TopDiva1

Have you bought Shelia Ferguson's most recent CD release "A New Kind Of Medicine"? I have to say it's fabulous because it is. However, thoughout the CD, there is a monologue from Shelia who talks about many things. When she talks of "When Will I See You Again".....oh, that was so simple to sing....no effort etc. I don't think she thought too highly of the song either.

If you dont have the CD, I would certainly recommend it.

Try this song..it's a ballad. But the monologue has to be heard in the context of the individual songs. I bought this CD when it came out and I haven't bought any CD of new music since then. That's how highly I recommend it.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POOZSvn18hU&feature=related


Sheila Ferguson looks great - having had just the right amount of cosmetic surgery - New Kind of Medicine is fantastic - she is a well maintained grand over the top diva.

[detmotownguy]

I am not sure what it has to do with class, unless class means an attempt to protect a legacy, which is what many Motown performers do. It makes sense from a marketing perspective to paint a rosy picture, even though they were treated like crap. If he was so great, she would have married him after she found out she was carrying his child?

[topdiva1]

I am not sure what it has to do with class, unless class means an attempt to protect a legacy, which is what many Motown performers do. It makes sense from a marketing perspective to paint a rosy picture, even though they were treated like crap. If he was so great, she would have married him after she found out she was carrying his child?

Gordy did not want to marry Diana Ross - one monster usually does not wed another monster.

[miss_lish]

Class is someone who opts to focus on handling their business and life. Fcuk the victim role, and get ta steppin'. To demonstrate further what the term class means, from dictionary.com:

adjective
26. of high quality, integrity, status, or style: class players on a mediocre team.

[topdiva1]

Class is someone who opts to focus on handling their business and life. Fcuk the victim role, and get ta steppin'. To demonstrate further what the term class means, from dictionary.com:

adjective
26. of high quality, integrity, status, or style: class players on a mediocre team.


That answers my question - LOL

[marxthespot_]

If not a complete album with Rodgers & Edwards, at least 2 or 3 new tracks by them.... Re-doing the oldies on that album WDFFIL, Brenda Lee's "Sweet Nothings", and the non-US song from those sessions the Bobettes' "Mr. Lee were just her self-indulgence to do songs that she liked.

[detmotownguy]

Agree, the hypothesis is rejected, no correlation.

[miss_lish]

Hypothesis? LMAO!! LMAO!! LMAO!! Who ARE these people?!! LOLOLOLOL!!

[smark21]

Oh no !!!!!! Considering the "When Will I See You Again" thread...too funny. On a side note and speaking of cover songs.......although not a huge Ross fan, am I the only one who likes the Sups version of Stormy.
jon

I love their version of Stormy, one of the gems on the boxset. Don't understand why it was vaulted in the first place as it's a much stronger cover than some of the cover filler material that made it to such albums as Let the Sunshine IN and Cream of the Crop.

[detmotownguy]

I love their version of Stormy, one of the gems on the boxset. Don't understand why it was vaulted in the first place as it's a much stronger cover than some of the cover filler material that made it to such albums as Let the Sunshine IN and Cream of the Crop.

Well just one other i guess! I agree, the filler was really bad. Stormy might have a moderate hit

[jobeterob]

Stormy was a huge fan favorite; I don't think it would have been a hit because it had already been done in much the same form and better by the Classics IV and had been a huge hit.

[miss_lish]

Miss Lish had better re-listen this Stormy.

[miss_lish]

You're all insane. Good song, but not hit potential.

[topdiva1]

Stormy was a huge fan favorite; I don't think it would have been a hit because it had already been done in much the same form and better by the Classics IV and had been a huge hit.

Never heard of it - where is it from.

[captainjames]

Stormy was good when I first heard it but, it quickly wore off for me which is what I think would have happen if it was released.

[miss_lish]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNFIw4wKDLw

[topdiva1]

Thanks for posting this - Ross sounds great when singing in this lower register - very sexy, quite strong.

Who is on background vocals???

[detmotownguy]

I swear it is def Mary esp. the , "bring back" part.

[detmotownguy]

She sounds sultry and as you said Topdiva, sexy...

[marv2]

I swear it is def Mary esp. the , "bring back" part.

It's her. Bring 'em back ,bring em back!

[smark21]

It's Mary and Cindy backing up Ross on Stormy.

[Sugarchilehoneybaby]

I've always wondered why Miss Ross felt the need to do a remake. I mean, she was at the top of her game in 1981! It seems that WFFIL was hastily put together, and while she definitely scored a legendary, hot, driving hit record with "Mirror, Mirror" - a top notch story lyrically [[and one that mirrored her life, as 'Dreamgirls' was turning it 'into a paperback novel' at the time) - and also a song that stretched her for the first time into Rock territory [[I live for the blistering guitar solo) - it's clear that RCA should have given her more time to put her label debut together.

I mean, not just one, but TWO oldies remakes? While "Why Do Fools..." was an excellent choice and well-produced with its hints of Vegas/Country, "Sweet Nothings" was just silly, save for the classic, sexy whispered intro and scorching sax solo at the end. She couldn't come up with enough new songs?

The debut LP could have been so much better. If I were RCA brass at that time, I would have given her a whole year to come up with the first album, to make sure it came out right. Rather than strike while the iron is hot, build the anticipation. Wait til Spring of '82, she was back in the public's eye with her performance of "Endless Love" at the Oscars, and then have a proper RCA debut. Besides, Motown could have put out a couple of hits following "Endless Love" to keep her on the charts! I wish they'd had the rights to release "Dreaming of You", a Top 5 contender if there ever was one.

Many of the songs on 'Silk Electric' were quite good: "In Your Arms", Diana's self-penned "So Close", "Who" [[hearkening back to the Chic sound of 'diana'), and Diana's old friends Motown collabo "I Am Me" [[great reggae lite arrangement with an ode to Ronnie Spector on her ad libs!) :rolleyes:

She had a chance to make an artistic statement, instead of just trying to come up with something commercial. In that sense, she succeeded, but 'Silk Electric' was more avant garde.

Wish list of producers I would have loved for her to have worked with in the 80s, in this order:
Nile Rodgers & Bernard Edwards
Lionel Richie & James Anthony Carmichael
Richard Perry
Michael Masser
Luther Vandross

[jobeterob]

Although it's not my favorite song by a long way, Why Do Fools Fall in Love is a huge favorite in concert ~ it's one of those songs that gets a huge crowd reaction and has been on the set list forever.

[jeff9nyc]

"Maybe I Know" by Leslie Gore?

That's a great idea Soulster! I never would have thought of that.

[Glenpwood]

Cutting oldies was in vogue at that particular moment. Among the big hits of that year was the Stars on 45 Beatles Medley, Manhattan Transfer's Boy From New York City, John Schneider's It's Now Or Never, and a cover [[rewritten in English) of Sukiyaki by A Taste Of Honey so Diana was right in the pocket of the current trend. She even managed to capture the exercise craze on Work That Body. For the most part she was fairly savvy in her imaging and singles choices during the RCA years. She had control and for awhile it worked rather well.

[soulster]

If Diana Ross had never done a remake of that song as her first main release from RCA, which one would you have picked for her? I would've liked her to do a faster-paced, 80's-styled cover of either Lightnin' Strikes [[Lou Christie), My Love [[Petula Clark) or I Say a Little Prayer for You.

I think Ross's cover of "Why Do Fools Fall In Love" just fine. I like it. And, as the producer, she picked her own songs. It was one of the reasons she left Motown. She wanted complete creative control. Motown wouldn't give it to her.

[captainjames]

So true
It is a shame that she had to be hit with Motown this way but she survived.


She was vindicated...She had gone through hell getting Motown to promote The Boss LP..they told her working with Chic would flop..well the chicken came home to roost suddenly Suzanne De passe wants to be her best friend on award shows and her tv special..Motown dropped the ball and let her make money somewhere else..and that whole Motown line of.-we-stayed-with-you-through-the hard-times is bull...she had given them 18 number ones and she had a few thousand dollars to her name..their petty squabbles over her wanting her own office space and refusing to pay for The Boss tour..good on her she sure showed them..to not trust that magical talent the same way they let Michael Jackson go..the fools

[soulster]

She was vindicated...She had gone through hell getting Motown to promote The Boss LP..they told her working with Chic would flop..well the chicken came home to roost suddenly Suzanne De passe wants to be her best friend on award shows and her tv special..Motown dropped the ball and let her make money somewhere else..and that whole Motown line of.-we-stayed-with-you-through-the hard-times is bull...she had given them 18 number ones and she had a few thousand dollars to her name..their petty squabbles over her wanting her own office space and refusing to pay for The Boss tour..good on her she sure showed them..to not trust that magical talent the same way they let Michael Jackson go..the fools

Nomis, i'm not that keen on what happened to Motown during the late 70s and early 80s, but can you tell me exactly what it was? Was it a power struggle? Was it that the Motown bosses didn't have a clue? They must have had some kind of clue because artists like Rick James, Switch, Stevie Wonder, and Marvin Gaye and Teena Marie were allowed to grow and produce themselves. And, if Diana Ross was such a moneymaker for the label, and Gordy was still in control, why wouldn't they give her artistic freedom? Good thing she had just enough of it to request a remix or the "diana" album.

I've heard a lot of things about Suzanne DePasse. What's true and what's fiction?