Stevie Wonder Sounds Off About "Black-on-Black Crime"

[sansradio]

http://thegrapevine.theroot.com/stevie-wonder-was-all-black-lives-matter-but-then-went-1796261812

[marv2]

I applaud Stevie for speaking out on this subject. Tomorrow, we will bury the 21 year old grandson of a friend of mine who was gun down by a couple of young men last week. We are still not even sure what it was about and no one has been arrested. So to Stevie Wonder, I say preach! I would not like to see him face any type of backlash for doing so like Bill Cosby did over a decade ago.

[splanky]

I have as much contempt for the crack dealing gangbangers who
"accidentally" kill 12,13 year olds while shooting up the neighborhood
cookout, barbeque, block party as I do for the crooked ass cop who kill
unarmed already handcuffed men who may have only run a red light,
had an unpaid parking ticket, whatever...I know we have been seeing
more incidents of police brutality over the years and I know all I need
to know about this country's racial history but having been of a group
of people who have been abused for long periods of time does not justify or excuse abuse within that group. Every once and a while
one of tries to get that point across and he or she is always shouted
down but I think that needs to stop and I love and support Stevie
so much more right now....

[marv2]

I have as much contempt for the crack dealing gangbangers who
"accidentally" kill 12,13 year olds while shooting up the neighborhood
cookout, barbeque, block party as I do for the crooked ass cop who kill
unarmed already handcuffed men who may have only run a red light,
had an unpaid parking ticket, whatever...I know we have been seeing
more incidents of police brutality over the years and I know all I need
to know about this country's racial history but having been of a group
of people who have been abused for long periods of time does not justify or excuse abuse within that group. Every once and a while
one of tries to get that point across and he or she is always shouted
down but I think that needs to stop and I love and support Stevie
so much more right now....

Right on Splanky! In the words of the Winans....."It's time to make a change!"
All of this killing needs to stop.

[RanRan79]

Love Stevie, but aint no such thing as Black on Black crime. That's some nonsense some racist made up to make crime among Black folks somehow different and more sinister than crime among any other racial group. Black people are not killing other Black people. Criminals, thugs, degenerates, psychos, those are the folks that are killing people and those broken people would be killing people no matter what race they are or the race of the victim. Murder happens. It's been going on since Cain killed Abel and it isn't going anywhere. Stevie and anyone else can spell it, sing it, dance it, preach that we should love one another and not murder each other, AND HE'S RIGHT, but until some parents and families start doing their damn job, until the gang and drug situation [[which is the root of most of the crime in our communities, btw) is corrected, these things will continue to happen. Most of the folks that need to hear his message weren't at a rally about gun violence. Most of the folks that need to hear his message are already too far gone.

[Encyclopedia Mack]

It's all economic. As a whole these areas that are crime filled are economically deprived. No jobs in these areas. Look at how New York is being gentrified. Look at areas in Manhattan and Harlem that were crime filled in the 80's and 90's are prime real estate now. They gentrify the areas and then put jobs in these areas, and surprise the crime goes down. People remember the infamous Canrini Greene projects. Check this article http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/April-2016/chicago-neighborhoods/
It's now considered one of the safest place to live. But when the black people that originally lived there asked for help the city acted like they couldn't do anything. Most of it is economic.

[RanRan79]

Absolutely Mack. Lack of jobs breeds a criminal element. Remove gangs and drugs from these communities and the crime rate drops. But it's easier for some people to talk about this as "Black people this" and "Black people that", rather than see the criminals for who and what they are, which has nothing to do with them being Black at all.

[marv2]

It's all economic. As a whole these areas that are crime filled are economically deprived. No jobs in these areas. Look at how New York is being gentrified. Look at areas in Manhattan and Harlem that were crime filled in the 80's and 90's are prime real estate now. They gentrify the areas and then put jobs in these areas, and surprise the crime goes down. People remember the infamous Canrini Greene projects. Check this article http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/April-2016/chicago-neighborhoods/
It's now considered one of the safest place to live. But when the black people that originally lived there asked for help the city acted like they couldn't do anything. Most of it is economic.

You are right. New York was a nightmare in the 80s and I loved it! LOL! I could have fun, but then leave to go home. This was before I became a resident. I remember Cabrini Green in Chicago in the early sixties. I was a young kid and it was filled with young kids. I had fun playing there, but again I could go home when the visit was over. Economic improvements do have a direct effect on crime. I fear that the Trump Administration's cuts to safety net programs will cause the crime rates to go up in areas across the country.

[marv2]

Absolutely Mack. Lack of jobs breeds a criminal element. Remove gangs and drugs from these communities and the crime rate drops. But it's easier for some people to talk about this as "Black people this" and "Black people that", rather than see the criminals for who and what they are, which has nothing to do with them being Black at all.

Good point RanRan79.

[splanky]

People do shit because people will do shit. That's a fact of humanity.
But if we want to present Black Lives Matter as a way to address the
racism that confronts many in and outside of Black communities in
an effort to propose change we also would do best to acknowledge
that we have problems among ourselves. If we won't criticise the bad
behavior of some of our citizens or denounce acts that threaten the lives of all of us how do we expect to see change? Oh, maybe Black Lives Matter only applies to when cops kill us...When we pull the trigger we're just expressing our "humanity".....So now I quess Stevie Wonder, who BTW, was instrumental in getting us a MLK
holiday, has no right to address his own people?....

[marv2]

People do shit because people will do shit. That's a fact of humanity.
But if we want to present Black Lives Matter as a way to address the
racism that confronts many in and outside of Black communities in
an effort to propose change we also would do best to acknowledge
that we have problems among ourselves. If we won't criticise the bad
behavior of some of our citizens or denounce acts that threaten the lives of all of us how do we expect to see change? Oh, maybe Black Lives Matter only applies to when cops kill us...When we pull the trigger we're just expressing our "humanity".....So now I quess Stevie Wonder, who BTW, was instrumental in getting us a MLK
holiday, has no right to address his own people?....

He has every right. I would also hope some of the younger major stars would speak to this issue.

[RanRan79]

People do shit because people will do shit. That's a fact of humanity.
But if we want to present Black Lives Matter as a way to address the
racism that confronts many in and outside of Black communities in
an effort to propose change we also would do best to acknowledge
that we have problems among ourselves. If we won't criticise the bad
behavior of some of our citizens or denounce acts that threaten the lives of all of us how do we expect to see change? Oh, maybe Black Lives Matter only applies to when cops kill us...When we pull the trigger we're just expressing our "humanity".....So now I quess Stevie Wonder, who BTW, was instrumental in getting us a MLK
holiday, has no right to address his own people?....

Stevie has the right to address whomever he wishes, just as I have a right to say I disagree with the effort. Black lives matter to people who give a shit, and that's the problem I have with this discussion. It's so insulting to suggest that we can't have a problem with the unnecessary killing of Black people by cops until we first have a problem with Black criminals killing Black people. Or that the conversation has to include both of these problems.

First of all criminals are criminals. Why people keep trying to attach race to this has it's roots in centuries of ideology in this country, mainly directed at African descended people. People kill people. You and I and everyone else should have a reasonable expectation that when we walk outside of our homes that we may cross paths with someone wishing to do us harm. This is why from the time we're able to understand the concept, our mothers and fathers teach us about stranger danger. We understand that not every private citizen cares about our safety and well being and will actively attempt to cause us harm. That is a totally different situation from police. We should have a reasonable expectation that a cop will not shoot a person- any person- for a situation that ends with the cop going "Oops, but I feared for my life". It would be the same as if when Black people go to the doctor we were being willfully and negligently killed. Would we say "Yes, doctors kill people, but we also kill ourselves so..."?

Criminals kill people. Black criminals rarely- if ever- target Black victims simply because the victim is Black. Black criminals in all likelihood would victimize their target no matter the color of the skin, so again, why is race even a part of the criminal conversation? Makes no sense. Furthermore, the idea that Black Lives Matter can't focus on it's intended target without broadening it's scope is ridiculous. Do we expect Mothers Against Drunk Driving to focus on death and injury that doesn't involve motor vehicles and drivers under the influence? Of course not. There are organizations all across the country devoted to violence in certain communities. Those groups have a focus and a purpose. Black Lives Matter has it's own as well and nothing else should enter that conversation.

[marv2]

It's so insulting to suggest that we can't have a problem with the unnecessary killing of Black people by cops until we first have a problem with Black criminals killing Black people.

Is that what he is saying? Think about it. I don't think so. I know that is not what I believe at all. I believe and I am guessing the others believe that we must speak up and stand against police brutality. We also must take a stand against black on black crime, white on white crime etc. It's bad all the way around, however police shootings of unarmed black people has roots in racism. People talk about the police needing to be retrained after each of these shootings. It's funny that they don't need to be retrained not to shoot white people for routine things like traffic stops!

[StuBass1]

This I find extremely disturbing. Kid being beaten down for trying to excel by a gang of losers...https://youtu.be/PDWyOnnE5W4

[RanRan79]

Is that what he is saying? Think about it. I don't think so. I know that is not what I believe at all. I believe and I am guessing the others believe that we must speak up and stand against police brutality. We also must take a stand against black on black crime, white on white crime etc. It's bad all the way around, however police shootings of unarmed black people has roots in racism. People talk about the police needing to be retrained after each of these shootings. It's funny that they don't need to be retrained not to shoot white people for routine things like traffic stops!

Maybe not the belief itself, but that's the spirit of the conversation. The issue that Black Lives Matter addresses should not have to be spoken about in conjunction with anything else. When we talk the violence of rape and "rape culture" we don't bring up anything else. When we talk about domestic violence we don't bring up anything else. So my question is always why when the subject of Black Lives Matter- or more specifically police brutality against Black folks- is brought up there has to be mixed in the conversation Black people and crime? It makes no sense. Again, I love me some Stevie, both musically and as a public personality, but his comments would have been better served to stick to the effects of gun violence and getting everyone to do their part while leaving Black Lives Matter out of it. Two separate issues.

[RanRan79]

It's funny that they don't need to be retrained not to shoot white people for routine things like traffic stops!

Marv you are absolutely right, even though cops do shoot white folks too. For the most part it's not a retraining issue. There needs to be a better vetting process for even allowing someone onto the force. Some of these cops have real psychological issues, including racism, while others just don't have the "heart" for the job. That cop that shot Philando Castille [[sp?) was so damn jumpy. If you're so afraid of being killed in the line of duty that you'd rather shoot a citizen and ask questions later, you don't belong on the force. And sadly with many cop issues, it doesn't even matter the color of the person with the badge. There are just a lot of people who have no business being a police officer, which is a very necessary and important job anyone can have. The force would be better served by being more selective. Although there's an argument to be made that the force selects exactly the kind of cop that they get.

[RanRan79]

This I find extremely disturbing. Kid being beaten down for trying to excel by a gang of losers...https://youtu.be/PDWyOnnE5W4

I call bullshit on that bullshit. Someone will need to produce for me verifiable information regarding the context of that video being that a kid was beaten down for making the honor roll. Just because someone throws a title on it doesn't make it so. Did the other honor roll students at the school get jumped too?:rolleyes:

[marv2]

Maybe not the belief itself, but that's the spirit of the conversation. The issue that Black Lives Matter addresses should not have to be spoken about in conjunction with anything else. When we talk the violence of rape and "rape culture" we don't bring up anything else. When we talk about domestic violence we don't bring up anything else. So my question is always why when the subject of Black Lives Matter- or more specifically police brutality against Black folks- is brought up there has to be mixed in the conversation Black people and crime? It makes no sense. Again, I love me some Stevie, both musically and as a public personality, but his comments would have been better served to stick to the effects of gun violence and getting everyone to do their part while leaving Black Lives Matter out of it. Two separate issues.

I totally get it! Some people bring up Black on Black crime whenever Black Lives Matter and the subject of police brutality is brought up. It is done to distract ,to change the subject and to use the old tired excuse that one crime is no worst than another. It is like children. One gets caught doing something wrong and his defense is well you did something wrong last week! I get it.

[marv2]

I call bullshit on that bullshit. Someone will need to produce for me verifiable information regarding the context of that video being that a kid was beaten down for making the honor roll. Just because someone throws a title on it doesn't make it so. Did the other honor roll students at the school get jumped too?:rolleyes:

You called it right!

Black Teen Thugs Beat Up Black Student For Making Honor Roll DEBUNKED!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=texwpf_Jr7I

[RanRan79]

I totally get it! Some people bring up Black on Black crime whenever Black Lives Matter and the subject of police brutality is brought up. It is done to distract ,to change the subject and to use the old tired excuse that one crime is no worst than another. It is like children. One gets caught doing something wrong and his defense is well you did something wrong last week! I get it.

It is done to distract...Marv you hit the nail on the head. Not that I think that's what Stevie is purposefully doing, but it's important to recognize the effect comparing the two situations has on progress.

[RanRan79]

You called it right!

Black Teen Thugs Beat Up Black Student For Making Honor Roll DEBUNKED!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=texwpf_Jr7I

Thanks for the information Marv. Just what I thought. But this is what happens when people have low opinions of Black youth in particular. A person can title a video anything negative and folks will eat it up without question. Of course a group of Black boys would beat up a kid because he's on the honor roll. Apparently that wouldn't surprise anyone. But had this video been a group of white boys beating up a kid and titled the same way people would question it, especially since there's nothing in the video about grades, honor or rolls.

But for the record the video is disgusting. How much of a punk are you that you can't take on one kid by yourself? Back in my fighting days I never did do that. When I whooped someone's ass I wanted that win to be mine and mine's alone. And then on top of the jumping, they had the wrong person. I hope they all do some time.

[marv2]

It is done to distract...Marv you hit the nail on the head. Not that I think that's what Stevie is purposefully doing, but it's important to recognize the effect comparing the two situations has on progress.

That is definitely not what Stevie is doing. Some that have not paid close attention to him and his activities outside of music over the decades don't know the deal. Still some say because he is a "Baby Boomer" he really cannot understand what is happening today......HA! I am on the tail end of the Baby Boomer and trust me, we know all about what's happening today and thanks to the technology of today we can see it with our own eyes.
Police brutality/murders are not new. What's new is you have irrefutable evidence and we still cannot get a conviction!

I took what Stevie said as Black lives matter, but while I am on the subject, we need to stop all of this killing of one another in the community. I can promise you he did not intend to deflect or distract from the subject at hand. Stevie is a good man from his heart.

[marv2]

Thanks for the information Marv. Just what I thought. But this is what happens when people have low opinions of Black youth in particular. A person can title a video anything negative and folks will eat it up without question. Of course a group of Black boys would beat up a kid because he's on the honor roll. Apparently that wouldn't surprise anyone. But had this video been a group of white boys beating up a kid and titled the same way people would question it, especially since there's nothing in the video about grades, honor or rolls.

But for the record the video is disgusting. How much of a punk are you that you can't take on one kid by yourself? Back in my fighting days I never did do that. When I whooped someone's ass I wanted that win to be mine and mine's alone. And then on top of the jumping, they had the wrong person. I hope they all do some time.

Oh we fought all the time. I mean we had fist fights. Heck when I was growing up, Pro Fighters were our heroes. Still we did it right. One on one and usually with a crowd watching. If things got out of hand, they would break it up. Kids still fight and in this case it was without guns. It disturbed me to see a gang of kids jumping on one boy.

We knew how to scare people too.......hehehehehehehehehe!

[StuBass1]

You called it right!

Black Teen Thugs Beat Up Black Student For Making Honor Roll DEBUNKED!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=texwpf_Jr7I
Without getting too involved...This guy debunked nothing...just told everyone "how he rolls"...This was not retaliation. This was pure enjoyment and a form of recreation on the part of the attackers...If you listen to the audio of the beatdown you hear references to "dumb him, dumb him, dumb him"[[and I've checked several colloquial and ebonics sources to find that term and came up empty) ...These beatdowns I find quite sad, and I got into my share of scuffles growing up like any other kid...Successful investor Charles Payne has often spoken of how he was ostracized and even threatened and assaulted growing up while going to school because he carried a briefcase thinking it helped him with the image he wanted to project. Having grown up with the privilege of attending majority black high schools, I've seen it myself, and it's gotten much more prevalent today...people accused of talking "too white", walking "too white", and acting "too white" and denial is just a river in Egypt...but I'm not about to try to change anyone's pre-conceived notions and people will believe what they choose to believe, their choice...valid or not...Problems are not solved through deflection...But it is what it is...Good for Stevie for speaking up...Thats all I've really got to say about this...

[RanRan79]

Without getting too involved...This guy debunked nothing...just told everyone "how he rolls"...This was not retaliation. This was pure enjoyment and a form of recreation on the part of the attackers...If you listen to the audio of the beatdown you hear references to "dumb him, dumb him, dumb him"[[and I've checked several colloquial and ebonics sources to find that term and came up empty) ...These beatdowns I find quite sad, and I got into my share of scuffles growing up like any other kid...Successful investor Charles Payne has often spoken of how he was ostracized and even threatened and assaulted growing up while going to school because he carried a briefcase thinking it helped him with the image he wanted to project. Having grown up with the privilege of attending majority black high schools, I've seen it myself, and it's gotten much more prevalent today...people accused of talking "too white", walking "too white", and acting "too white" and denial is just a river in Egypt...but I'm not about to try to change anyone's pre-conceived notions and people will believe what they choose to believe, their choice...valid or not...Problems are not solved through deflection...But it is what it is...Good for Stevie for speaking up...Thats all I've really got to say about this...

And this is what both the guy in the video and myself were getting at. He debunked nothing? But he sourced Philly.com and added information that could not be gleamed from the "honor roll" video. You can't believe him, but you can believe the title of a video with no description? You checked into "ebonics sources" for "dumb him"? Why, because these Black boys surely couldn't have simply meant "dumb him", as in "dumb him for thinking he could do whatever it is we're falsely accusing him of"?? No, they either had to have been jealous that he was smart enough to make the honor roll or they were speaking ebonics. Ah, gotcha.

This is why Black Lives Matter is so important. Sadly police officers across the country buy into the notion that Black people- especially Black youth- lack intelligence, empathy and are attracted to crime. If one guy on Soulful Detroit can be told from the title of a video that a kid is getting jumped for making the honor roll, without any evidence whatsoever, and then call false someone who actually presents a SOURCE that states otherwise, because it's easy to believe that Black kids go around attacking other kids because they make the honor roll, what hope do we have of getting people with guns strapped to their hips and badges over their hearts to believe that Black people's lives are worthy to be protected?

I'm disgusted by this entire racist post.