Diana Ross - Backstage at RTL Opening Night After Show - Philadelphia, April 14, 2000

[Methuselah2]

A li'l bit of RTL opening night history:

https://youtu.be/Xl_fwbBo8MA

Many thanks to Gio Malgio for this YouTube posting.

BONUS from a bit later in the tour:

LOVE IS LIKE AN ITCHING IN MY HEART:

https://youtu.be/CYXFFdQMDgQ

Many thanks to Franco Rossville for this YouTube posting.

[imakicola]

Maybe it's a good thing this was the lineup used. This was a fresh new Diana Ross concert with some Supremes. It doesn't really make me think of the actual 1960's. I can't imagine it with Mary and Cindy doing the reflections choreography on the ends of the stage like that.

[PeaceNHarmony]

Maybe it's a good thing this was the lineup used. This was a fresh new Diana Ross concert with some Supremes. It doesn't really make me think of the actual 1960's. I can't imagine it with Mary and Cindy doing the reflections choreography on the ends of the stage like that.
Interesting comment; it was indeed a great show and all 3 RTL ladies sang, danced, and looked wonderful. It's unfortunate that more of the public was unable to see this show and that Cindy Birdsong lost out on a $1,000,000 paycheck due to meddling.

[marv2]

Interesting comment; it was indeed a great show and all 3 RTL ladies sang, danced, and looked wonderful. It's unfortunate that more of the public was unable to see this show and that Cindy Birdsong lost out on a $1,000,000 paycheck due to meddling.

The majority of the public did not want to see this!

[Roberta75]

The majority of the public did not want to see this!


"Originally Posted by marv2 http://soulfuldetroit.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png [[http://soulfuldetroit.com/showthread.php?p=353706#post353706) October 2016
I don't even go into most Diana Ross threads on here."

only every blessed day. Lol.

[vgalindo]

One of the best concerts ever!!

[captainjames]

OMG .........Luther Vandross !!! I remember his love for the Supremes and Diana Ross... Just bits and pieces like this would have been an awesome DVD.

[endlesslove]

"Originally Posted by marv2 http://soulfuldetroit.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png [[http://soulfuldetroit.com/showthread.php?p=353706#post353706) October 2016
I don't even go into most Diana Ross threads on here."

only every blessed day. Lol.
You have issues miss. It looks like you are the one with an obsession. Stop playing games and ruining threads with your negativity! :mad:

[mpn1jco]

The majority of the public did not want to see this!

People wondered why didn't she just do an evening of Supremes songs on her own.

http://diana-ross.freeforums.net/thread/9/force-power?page=18

[marv2]

People wondered why didn't she just do an evening of Supremes songs on her own.

http://diana-ross.freeforums.net/thread/9/force-power?page=18

Either way it would not have worked. Her voice was on it's way to be gone by the time of this tour anyway. They did not sound like the Supremes.

[luke]

You hit the nail on the head. They never performed together previously and thus did not have the magic. It would be like putting John Lennon[[had he lived) with members of Wings and calling themselves the Beatles. . Why would people pay $250 to see two women who never performed with lead singer , described as being an airplane hanger away from the lead singer, sing classic song s of the most successful, iconic American group??? Crazy land And when the other originals told " train has left the station." How rude!

[thanxal]

You have issues miss. It looks like you are the one with an obsession. Stop playing games and ruining threads with your negativity! :mad:
Oh please. Give me a break. Go back and look at who posts where and what they say.

[jobucats]

In reaction to the "here we go again with the bickering of 'My Supreme is better than your Supreme'," I'll respond with RuPaul's words to the drag queens in the opening scene of Diana's "I Will Survive" video as they were apparently not getting the correct moves, "No, no, no, No, Girls, Girls"

[honest man]

The majority of the public did not want to see this!How much crap goes on in your head and then you spew it out,you do not speak for the majority of people only your own pathetic opinion always,when are you going to get booted off this site and give THE MAJORITY OF THE PUBLIC ,Some peace fed up with your crap again.

[Circa 1824]

I am a huge Ross fan, but Ross was solely responsible for the failure of RTL. I suspect she treated M and C in a less-than-respectful way during the negotiations. She needed them to tour as DR and the Supremes. That was clear as a bell to anyone who was not drinking.

[marv2]

You hit the nail on the head. They never performed together previously and thus did not have the magic. It would be like putting John Lennon[[had he lived) with members of Wings and calling themselves the Beatles. . Why would people pay $250 to see two women who never performed with lead singer , described as being an airplane hanger away from the lead singer, sing classic song s of the most successful, iconic American group??? Crazy land And when the other originals told " train has left the station." How rude!

But even those two women singing back up on the tour had never been in the Supremes together. Ironically, the main person that all three women had in common is Mary Wilson. But oh yeah, she was told that the train had already left the station..............

[honest man]

Diana Ross and the Supremes there have been7- background singers collectivley called Supremes so Lynda and Sherrie deseved to be there billed as Supremes the stage was not exclusive for Mare wilson and Sweet Cindy ,Diana Ross will always be known as the face voice heart of this group put up or the other option.

[luke]

And if Miss Ross had any sensitivity at all she could've toured with the Jones Girls and sang Supremes songs. She not only disrespected Mary and Cindy and Flo's legacy but also the fans.

[honest man]

And if Miss Ross had any sensitivity at all she could've toured with the Jones Girls and sang Supremes songs. She not only disrespected Mary and Cindy and Flo's legacy but also the fans. Why would she want to do that she had 2 supremes who were excellent at supporting her the YT clips prove this SAD as it was Flo had died Cindy was not interested and Mare was unreliable due to her cocaine use and greed end of story ,oh glad you joined in, proved my theory that you are part of the trio i have mentione about wrecking Diana ROSS THREADS no doubt the other one will jump in soon and we;ll have a hat trick.lastly she did not direspect DRATS Fans i would have paid to see the show YT clips excellent Mare Wilson is appearing 10 mins walk from me in a few months i would not waste my time nor energy if they picked me up in gold limo for free to see her she will always be a background singer clinging on to Diana's rhinestone gowns,as Diana would tell her GET BACK TO YOUR MICROPHONE,Cheers.

[jobeterob]

People wondered why didn't she just do an evening of Supremes songs on her own.

http://diana-ross.freeforums.net/thread/9/force-power?page=18

That's what the Supremes records were - Diana singing songs on her own

The background, whoever they were, were interchangeable

[marv2]

That's what the Supremes records were - Diana singing songs in her own

The background, whoever they were, were interchangeable

Then why did everyone stay away from her Supremes Reunion tour when they found out that Mary Wilson and Cindy Birdsong were not going to be there? LOL! Diana Ross that she was all that was needed. LOL!

[marv2]

And if Miss Ross had any sensitivity at all she could've toured with the Jones Girls and sang Supremes songs. She not only disrespected Mary and Cindy and Flo's legacy but also the fans.

That wouldn't have worked either. The Jones Girls would have wanted to be paid too! Remember, by 2000 the Jones Girls had their own list of hits and well known recordings.

[captainjames]

I love RTL the way it was with Scherrie the pain killer and Lynda Laurence. If anyone else had of went on that tour we would have got another book or someone may have been hurt real bad.

[vgalindo]

I love RTL the way it was with Scherrie the pain killer and Lynda Laurence. If anyone else had of went on that tour we would have got another book or someone may have been hurt real bad.
I agree. I love Sherrie and Lynda. They were awesome with Diana.

[PeaceNHarmony]

That's what the Supremes records were - Diana singing songs on her own

The background, whoever they were, were interchangeable
For the most part, very true. I always mean to look-see if any enterprising soul has compiled a listing of every DRATS track and noted how many tracks on which Supremes [[other than Diana) actually sang!

[PeaceNHarmony]

I agree. I love Sherrie and Lynda. They were awesome with Diana.
Indeed they were. I would have preferred DMC but, as we know, M had issues so we were denied C; S&L stepped up to the plate and were wonderful!

[RanRan79]

That's what the Supremes records were - Diana singing songs on her own

The background, whoever they were, were interchangeable

Bullshit. The Supremes records were just that: the Supremes' records. She wasn't in that studio alone.

[RanRan79]

That wouldn't have worked either. The Jones Girls would have wanted to be paid too! Remember, by 2000 the Jones Girls had their own list of hits and well known recordings.

I don't know the Jones Girls personally, but I'd actually bet money that if anyone had come to them with a 2 million dollar pay figure, those chicks would have been singing for their lives. Not even at the height of their popularity were they ever paid 2 million dollars for a gig. I'll bet you anything that's a fact.

[RanRan79]

For the most part, very true. I always mean to look-see if any enterprising soul has compiled a listing of every DRATS track and noted how many tracks on which Supremes [[other than Diana) actually sang!

I think a list of recordings from the DRATS period [[mid 67-69) would possibly include more Andantes [[and others) rather than Mary and Cindy. I think fans who love to think the group was all Ross would be saddened to find that Flo and Mary did most of the Supremes backup during their time together.

[marv2]

I don't know the Jones Girls personally, but I'd actually bet money that if anyone had come to them with a 2 million dollar pay figure, those chicks would have been singing for their lives. Not even at the height of their popularity were they ever paid 2 million dollars for a gig. I'll bet you anything that's a fact.

That's interesting because neither Mary or Cindy were offered even $ 2 million when they were originally approached about that tour.

[RanRan79]

That's interesting because neither Mary or Cindy were offered even $ 2 million when they were originally approached about that tour.

According to Mary Wilson on 20/20 [[I just looked it up to be certain via Youtube titled "Mary Wilson Interview 2000" around the 3:06 minute mark) she says she stood to get 2 million, possibly three. So my original opinion remains the same: the Jones Girls would've jumped at the chance to make 2-3 million dollars for a gig, although in all actuality they probably never would have been offered that kind of money. Mary and Cindy were worth 2-3 million as Supremes. Shirley and the girls weren't worth Supremes rates. [[And I'm speaking in celebrity terms, not talent, as the Jones Girls were fantastic.) Does anyone know what Scherrie and Lynda were paid? I can't imagine that they were even given what Mary and Cindy stood to make.

[blackguy69]

According to Mary Wilson on 20/20 [[I just looked it up to be certain via Youtube titled "Mary Wilson Interview 2000" around the 3:06 minute mark) she says she stood to get 2 million, possibly three. So my original opinion remains the same: the Jones Girls would've jumped at the chance to make 2-3 million dollars for a gig, although in all actuality they probably never would have been offered that kind of money. Mary and Cindy were worth 2-3 million as Supremes. Shirley and the girls weren't worth Supremes rates. [[And I'm speaking in celebrity terms, not talent, as the Jones Girls were fantastic.) Does anyone know what Scherrie and Lynda were paid? I can't imagine that they were even given what Mary and Cindy stood to make.
If I'm correct, they were offered 1.5 mil apiece

[Methuselah2]

I've never understood why DMC couldn't all have been paid equally right down the line, and then with each of them being equally responsible for the production expenses. It seems so easy--except for things like personality and history that stood in the way. Clearly, not everyone was on the same page to say the least. The 'love' was horribly missing from the 'return'. And the lines of demarcation that were always so apparent within the group from the beginning were only about to be further highlighted in the tour. And a beautiful chance to create something very special for fans was lost before anyone took one foot onstage. "And Flo, she didn't know" ??? I think we all know she knew. All too well. RTL was doomed to fail simply because all those who should have been there onstage were not. What took place may have been good as it was--but it wasn't meaningful. Where did our love go, indeed! Cycle complete.

[Circa 1824]

Diana said on Barbara Walters that M and C contractually "only had to show up" to earn the money. Well, what if M and C wanted to be more involved than "only showing up?"

M and C WERE 2/3 of the Supremes and understandably wanted creative input. The Jones Girls, by comparison, would have been entitled to zero creative input. Diana knocking out M and C's involvement other than "just showing up" relegated them to window-dressing status. OUCH ..... Diana, in all honesty, you were 80% of the show, but where was your empathy? Bruised egos write vindictive tell-all books, and vent their anger in TV interviews, and you know how that ends up.

[jobucats]

I've never understood why DMC couldn't all have been paid equally right down the line, and then with each of them being equally responsible for the production expenses. It seems so easy--except for things like personality and history that stood in the way. Clearly, not everyone was on the same page to say the least. The 'love' was horribly missing from the 'return'. And the lines of demarcation that were always so apparent within the group from the beginning were only about to be further highlighted in the tour. And a beautiful chance to create something very special for fans was lost before anyone took one foot onstage. "And Flo, she didn't know" ??? I think we all know she knew. All too well. RTL was doomed to fail simply because all those who should have been there onstage were not. What took place may have been good as it was--but it wasn't meaningful. Where did our love go, indeed! Cycle complete.

Good point, Methuselah, however, if all three would be paid equally, and all 3 would be equally be responsible for productions costs, that would mean all 3 would have equal say [[or at least their designated people would) in the logistics of the productions. I can't believe Diana's people, who proposed the initial Supremes idea to Diana, would want to relinquish any control on the "the product."

Also, in Diana's response to Mary's 20/20 rant was that she said all Mary had to do was to show up. I don't consider this to have been a "slap in the face." I consider it to be that Diana and her people were trying to pull this together as smoothly as possible without stressing out Mary and Cindy with production details.

[Methuselah2]

Good point, Methuselah, however, if all three would be paid equally, and all 3 would be equally be responsible for productions costs, that would mean all 3 would have equal say [[or at least their designated people would) in the logistics of the productions. I can't believe Diana's people, who proposed the initial Supremes idea to Diana, would want to relinquish any control on the "the product."

Also, in Diana's response to Mary's 20/20 rant was that she said all Mary had to do was to show up. I don't consider this to have been a "slap in the face." I consider it to be that Diana and her people were trying to pull this together as smoothly as possible without stressing out Mary and Cindy with production details.

Jobucats - You're probably right about not wanting to relinquish any authority. But Diana's saying that all Mary and Cindy had to do was show up was demeaning and belittling. I think things in the end showed how much Mary and Cindy were needed. And rightly so.

[marv2]

Nah, you cannot ask Mary Wilson who had been a Supreme longer than anyone else; who at one point helped carry the group financially in the 70s to just show up! Mary is the only person that knew the leads and the backgrounds to all of the Supremes songs. The only one that knew their choreography from start to finish, the only one that had been actively keeping their legacy alive in the public's eye........ Hell she wrote the book! LOL! To tell someone like that to just show up was crazy.

[RanRan79]

If I'm correct, they were offered 1.5 mil apiece

Thanks for the information.

[RanRan79]

I've never understood why DMC couldn't all have been paid equally right down the line, and then with each of them being equally responsible for the production expenses. It seems so easy--except for things like personality and history that stood in the way. Clearly, not everyone was on the same page to say the least. The 'love' was horribly missing from the 'return'. And the lines of demarcation that were always so apparent within the group from the beginning were only about to be further highlighted in the tour. And a beautiful chance to create something very special for fans was lost before anyone took one foot onstage. "And Flo, she didn't know" ??? I think we all know she knew. All too well. RTL was doomed to fail simply because all those who should have been there onstage were not. What took place may have been good as it was--but it wasn't meaningful. Where did our love go, indeed! Cycle complete.

Like Mary said in her interview, she wanted to sit down and talk with Diana about it but Diana wanted to deal with the business side first. That's an example of what I meant in the other thread when I said Diana was treating this as just another business venture. Of all the things that can be said about Diana Ross- fact or fiction- no one ever calls her a dumb businesswoman, which is why her name never rings out in "money trouble" headlines. She seems to keep a good eye on her coins, probably as a result of finding out that Motown had ripped her off all those years ago. So I understand why a part of her would have said "Let's get the business taken care of before anything else" if this had been any other business venture. But because the Supremes weren't just a business, but were icons and a part of history, and because the people involved are human beings with a history- good and bad- the personal should have been dealt with. Even discussing the details of the tour should have been a more intimate thing and Diana should have gauged where Mary's head and heart was before moving forward. But my mind tells me that when people really want to get something done, they'll get it done. I'm not convinced that either Diana or Mary really wanted a tour. These women love each other- I think that's obvious- but they don't trust each other. And when you don't trust someone, how can you really move forward together in anything? I think they were looking for a way out and they each gave the other just that.

[RanRan79]

Nah, you cannot ask Mary Wilson who had been a Supreme longer than anyone else; who at one point helped carry the group financially in the 70s to just show up! Mary is the only person that knew the leads and the backgrounds to all of the Supremes songs. The only one that knew their choreography from start to finish, the only one that had been actively keeping their legacy alive in the public's eye........ Hell she wrote the book! LOL! To tell someone like that to just show up was crazy.

Mary is not the only person who knows the leads and backgrounds to all of the Supremes songs. Hell I know all the leads and backgrounds to all of the Supremes songs! LOL And what choreography were these grandma aged women doing in 2000 that Mary would've needed to teach them? How hard is it to put your hand out in a stop motion? Why couldn't she be paid 4 million bucks to show up and sing? What exactly did Mary want to do? Did she really want to pay grips and technicians out of her cut? I imagine that if Mary were told that she'd also have to pay expenses, rather than just show up, she would have had a problem with that too. The woman didn't want to do this show and the other woman didn't really want her there anyway. All of this is excuses, excuses, excuses.

[luke]

Mary wanted to do it but felt she was being treated as a Ross employee. Understandably Mary wanted a say in which gowns, which songs, maybe sing a couple of leads. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see Diana wanted to control everything. Diana called Cindy in July of 1999 and Mary in December!! Mary's own schedule filling up and she wanted to do make time for RTL but hadn't heard anything. Mary finally had her agent call SFX to get Diana to call her. Diana was back to her old games ignoring Mary's needs. I heard Scherrie and Lynda offered 250000 each. I have no idea if that's accurate but I find it hard to believe after being so cheap with Mary and Cindy she just coughed up 3 millions so easily!!

[marv2]

Like Mary said in her interview, she wanted to sit down and talk with Diana about it but Diana wanted to deal with the business side first. That's an example of what I meant in the other thread when I said Diana was treating this as just another business venture. Of all the things that can be said about Diana Ross- fact or fiction- no one ever calls her a dumb businesswoman, which is why her name never rings out in "money trouble" headlines. She seems to keep a good eye on her coins, probably as a result of finding out that Motown had ripped her off all those years ago. So I understand why a part of her would have said "Let's get the business taken care of before anything else" if this had been any other business venture. But because the Supremes weren't just a business, but were icons and a part of history, and because the people involved are human beings with a history- good and bad- the personal should have been dealt with. Even discussing the details of the tour should have been a more intimate thing and Diana should have gauged where Mary's head and heart was before moving forward. But my mind tells me that when people really want to get something done, they'll get it done. I'm not convinced that either Diana or Mary really wanted a tour. These women love each other- I think that's obvious- but they don't trust each other. And when you don't trust someone, how can you really move forward together in anything? I think they were looking for a way out and they each gave the other just that.

Months before that, in December of 1999 Mary was interviewed by Access Hollywood about this upcoming reunion. She was very excited and mentioned that Diane was working out her own deal and that she would be doing the same soon. By the time of that press conference at Grand Central Station....it was war! Doesn't matter what those other women wanted. I am and the public wanted Mary Wilson!

[RanRan79]

I smell bullshit on all sides of this thing and that's that. RTL is done and barring a miraculous move that chance will never come around again. The only hope now is a one off performance or a charity event reunion show. Hopefully while the two of them are still so vibrant. When I see them perform today I can still see some of the 1960s Diana and Mary present. I hate when these reunions happen with someone hobbling across a stage or being wheeled about in a chair. My fingers are still crossed.

You all have a blessed, safe and Happy Easter. See ya Monday!

[luke]

Okeedokkeee. I guess that's that Marv!

[marv2]

Okeedokkeee. I guess that's that Marv!

hehehehehehehehehehe! Happy Good Friday Luke!

[luke]

You too Marv!

[daviddh]

just want to point out that originally this was a DR tour for her EVERYDAY IS A NEW DAY cd.
during discussions of the tour, the promoters asked Diana for an extended supremes set, she agreed , then they asked her to bring the supremes in, she agreed. she told them she would call them to see if she could make it happen. over the phone, they both agreed to the tour and tour dates.
Mary did ask to be envolved but a lot of arrangements were made already for the tour. they just needed M & C to sign on. Mary wanted more money. I think the breaking point was the 20/ 20 interview. the next night Diana was on and stated I couldn't work with her after this.
now when Fleetwood mac toured without Christine McVie no one jumped up and down.
not sure who was wrong but I think Diana DID try and call her but mary did not return her calls. I think Marys manager negotiated for her naturally but wasn't he the same guy that negotiate Suzanne somers out of 3s Co tv show and Farrah out of Charlies Angels