Motown Label Type

[mowsville]

Hi all...was just going through my Motown collection and was surprised at how many types of lettering there actually are for the song titles etc..i prefer the larger type lettering...does anyone know why there were so many diff types used and are some types rarer than others.

[reese]

I imagine one of the reasons for the different type is the result of different pressing plants being used.

[Philles/Motown Gary]

Mowsville, are you referring to the font type/size on the label copy which was sometimes in black ink and sometimes silver [[i.e., the Soul label)?

[mowsville]

Mowsville, are you referring to the font type/size on the label copy which was sometimes in black ink and sometimes silver [[i.e., the Soul label)? yes Philles thats exactly what i mean...if pressing plants is the answer then how many different pressing plants were used because theres so many variations...the larger writing i prefer seems to be mainly on the styrene pressings.

[Philles/Motown Gary]

yes Philles thats exactly what i mean...if pressing plants is the answer then how many different pressing plants were used because theres so many variations...the larger writing i prefer seems to be mainly on the styrene pressings.
I really don't know how to answer that, mowsville. I do know that, growing up in Western New York State as I did, the Motown 45 releases [[including Gordy, Tamla, and Soul) that were distributed in our area were almost always pressed on thin vinyl. The Motown label was a SHINY, DARK blue [[compared to the thicker polystyrene copies which had a LIGHTER blue, DRY-PAPER label). And our Gordy thin-vinyl releases were pressed with a shiny, dark purple label [[compared to the thicker polystyrene raspberry-shaded Gordy label). The color/shade of the Tamla and Soul labels were pretty much the same for both thin-vinyl pressings and the thicker polystyrene pressings. Again, the only real difference was that the shiny labels were used for thin-vinyl pressings, while the dry-paper labels were used on the thick polystyrene pressings. Sound quality-wise, the thin vinyl pressings always sounded hotter, whereas the polystyrene versions sometimes had a strange "steely" sound about them -- at least, to my ears. As far as font type and color of ink used, I think there were variations within the thin-vinyl versions and the thick polystyrene versions. I don't think there was any set rule. Whichever ink was readily available at the pressing plant that day was the one that got used.

[robb_k]

I really don't know how to answer that, mowsville. I do know that, growing up in Western New York State as I did, the Motown 45 releases [[including Gordy, Tamla, and Soul) that were distributed in our area were almost always pressed on thin vinyl. The Motown label was a SHINY, DARK blue [[compared to the thicker polystyrene copies which had a LIGHTER blue, DRY-PAPER label). And our Gordy thin-vinyl releases were pressed with a shiny, dark purple label [[compared to the thicker polystyrene raspberry-shaded Gordy label). The color/shade of the Tamla and Soul labels were pretty much the same for both thin-vinyl pressings and the thicker polystyrene pressings. Again, the only real difference was that the shiny labels were used for thin-vinyl pressings, while the dry-paper labels were used on the thick polystyrene pressings. Sound quality-wise, the thin vinyl pressings always sounded hotter, whereas the polystyrene versions sometimes had a strange "steely" sound about them -- at least, to my ears. As far as font type and color of ink used, I think there were variations within the thin-vinyl versions and the thick polystyrene versions. I don't think there was any set rule. Whichever ink was readily available at the pressing plant that day was the one that got used.
12778
I'm pretty sure that those thin tighter-grooved vinyl records you described receiving in upstate New York, were pressed at RCA's Harrisburg Pennsylvania plant. They seemed to sound much hotter and clearer than the polystyrene issues after 30 plays and forever after.

[greg jones]

Motown has used many record pressing plants through the years. They started using American Record Pressing in Owosso, MI and United Record Pressing in Nashville. But also used Columbia's facilities [[Terre Haute, IN, Pittman, NJ and Santa Maria, CA.) and RCA's plants [[Harrisburg, PA, Rockaway, NJ, Indianapolis, IN and Hollywood, CA). Probably many others too. It was all about who could press and wasn't backed up to get the records out as quick as possible.

As far the label type, it was whatever printing shop the pressing plant used for labels at the time.

[Philles/Motown Gary]

12778
I'm pretty sure that those thin tighter-grooved vinyl records you described receiving in upstate New York, were pressed at RCA's Harrisburg Pennsylvania plant. They seemed to sound much hotter and clearer than the polystyrene issues after 30 plays and forever after.
Oh, Harrisburg PA -- That's good to know, Robb. I've always wondered where those thin-vinyl masterpieces were pressed! I'm assuming this was during Motown's mid-to-late-'60s hey-day. [[For me, that's when it counts most.)

I've heard the same thing about the thicker polystyrene singles having a shorter playing life [[not unlike acetates, which are supposedly limited to a lesser number of plays). Like the Energizer Bunny, the thin vinyl versions play on and on forever!

[Philles/Motown Gary]

Motown has used many record pressing plants through the years. They started using American Record Pressing in Owosso, MI and United Record Pressing in Nashville. But also used Columbia's facilities [[Terre Haute, IN, Pittman, NJ and Santa Maria, CA.) and RCA's plants [[Harrisburg, PA, Rockaway, NJ, Indianapolis, IN and Hollywood, CA). Probably many others too. It was all about who could press and wasn't backed up to get the records out as quick as possible.

As far the label type, it was whatever printing shop the pressing plant used for labels at the time.
Greg, I had no idea that Motown utilized so many different pressing plants, but I guess it stands to reason considering Motown's immense popularity and demand, coupled with its ever-growing number of artists and releases on its various labels.

It's interesting to note that, despite the large number of pressing plants utilized, the Motown, Gordy, Tamla, and Soul singles AND albums distributed in my area looked consistently the same -- label-wise and groove-wise. I didn't notice any change in the playing grooves until 1968 when the album grooves suddenly had a different look or "personality" about them. I can't really put my finger on it, but there was a marked difference in their appearance. The album grooves in the louder musical passages looked like stretched-out letter "Z"'s. This would have been around the time of The Marvelettes "Sophisticated Soul", Marvin Gaye's "In The Groove", Martha Reeves & The Vandellas' "Ridin' High", Marvin & Tammi's "You're All I Need", and Chuck Jackson's "Arrives". Come to think of it, that was also about the time when Motown changed its label designs for Gordy, Tamla, Soul, and VIP. To further stir up the ingredients, it was also at the time when Motown began pressing all of its album releases in Stereo only. So many vinyl variables were changing at once, it's hard to single out any one reason for the change in looks. Yet, once Motown made the change, all pressings remained consistent in looks -- until 1969 when the album grooves seemed much closer and tighter together.

[robb_k]

Greg, I had no idea that Motown utilized so many different pressing plants, but I guess it stands to reason considering Motown's immense popularity and demand, coupled with its ever-growing number of artists and releases on its various labels.

It's interesting to note that, despite the large number of pressing plants utilized, the Motown, Gordy, Tamla, and Soul singles AND albums distributed in my area looked consistently the same -- label-wise and groove-wise. I didn't notice any change in the playing grooves until 1968 when the album grooves suddenly had a different look or "personality" about them. I can't really put my finger on it, but there was a marked difference in their appearance. The album grooves in the louder musical passages looked like stretched-out letter "Z"'s. This would have been around the time of The Marvelettes "Sophisticated Soul", Marvin Gaye's "In The Groove", Martha Reeves & The Vandellas' "Ridin' High", Marvin & Tammi's "You're All I Need", and Chuck Jackson's "Arrives". Come to think of it, that was also about the time when Motown changed its label designs for Gordy, Tamla, Soul, and VIP. To further stir up the ingredients, it was also at the time when Motown began pressing all of its album releases in Stereo only. So many vinyl variables were changing at once, it's hard to single out any one reason for the change in looks. Yet, once Motown made the change, all pressings remained consistent in looks -- until 1969 when the album grooves seemed much closer and tighter together.
12779
That's no surprise, as the different plants were used mostly because they could serve their own geographical regions better. During Motown's earliest years, they used American, a few local, Detroit plants, and Columbia Terre Haute, Ind. [[during 1960-62). After 1963, they used mostly RCA Harrisburg and NJ for The East, and RCA Nashville for The South, RCA Indianapolis for The Midwest, and Monarch in L.A. for The West.

[Philles/Motown Gary]

12779
That's no surprise, as the different plants were used mostly because they could serve their own geographical regions better. During Motown's earliest years, they used American, a few local, Detroit plants, and Columbia Terre Haute, Ind. [[during 1960-62). After 1963, they used mostly RCA Harrisburg and NJ for The East, and RCA Nashville for The South, RCA Indianapolis for The Midwest, and Monarch in L.A. for The West.

That's fascinating, Robb. So all of the Motown vinyl that I collected back in the '60s was conceived in Detroit and hatched in Harrisburg, PA, and NJ! HaHa! I wish I had know that back in the day! It was pretty much the same with Philles Records -- meaning, East Coast pressings versus West Coast pressings. Once again, I was lucky! Living in NY state, as I did, we got the thin-vinyl pressings with the shiny blue/black, and, later, shiny yellow/red labels -- the ones that were cut SUPER-LOUD and jumped out at you, while the West Coast pressings were thick polystyrene with dry-looking paper labels.

[greg jones]

12779
That's no surprise, as the different plants were used mostly because they could serve their own geographical regions better. During Motown's earliest years, they used American, a few local, Detroit plants, and Columbia Terre Haute, Ind. [[during 1960-62). After 1963, they used mostly RCA Harrisburg and NJ for The East, and RCA Nashville for The South, RCA Indianapolis for The Midwest, and Monarch in L.A. for The West.

robb_k, that geographical assumption is pretty spot on. But keep in the larger retailing chains purchased in bulk sometimes from where their warehouse was and then distributed to their stores. So a large retailer like Musicland whose main warehouse was in Minneapolis would probably get supplied from RCA Indianapolis pressings or Columbia Terre Haute, but had many stores on the West Coast might end up with the Midwest pressed copies when it was shipped from their corporate warehouse. Some of the chains were authorised to pick up pressings from local rack jobbers when it take too long to ship from the central warehouse.

Now, another piece of the puzzle, If anyone purchased Motown albums from one of the record clubs, Columbia House, RCA Music Club, Capitol Record Club, the story was a little different. The record clubs usually required the contracted record companies to submit a copy of the master, artwork, etc. to master and print the release for the club members. Usually you'll see a CRC or RCA printed somewhere on the cover and or the label. I know that Motown didn't start contracting with the record clubs until about 1965. Of all the labels that contracted with these record clubs, this practice of sending copies of the masters, also meant that occasionally the clubs ended up with different mixes that accidentally came out. I'm not specifically aware of any Motown release that alternate Master accidentally came out, but it did on a few other labels.

[Philles/Motown Gary]

robb_k, that geographical assumption is pretty spot on. But keep in the larger retailing chains purchased in bulk sometimes from where their warehouse was and then distributed to their stores. So a large retailer like Musicland whose main warehouse was in Minneapolis would probably get supplied from RCA Indianapolis pressings or Columbia Terre Haute, but had many stores on the West Coast might end up with the Midwest pressed copies when it was shipped from their corporate warehouse. Some of the chains were authorised to pick up pressings from local rack jobbers when it take too long to ship from the central warehouse.

Now, another piece of the puzzle, If anyone purchased Motown albums from one of the record clubs, Columbia House, RCA Music Club, Capitol Record Club, the story was a little different. The record clubs usually required the contracted record companies to submit a copy of the master, artwork, etc. to master and print the release for the club members. Usually you'll see a CRC or RCA printed somewhere on the cover and or the label. I know that Motown didn't start contracting with the record clubs until about 1965. Of all the labels that contracted with these record clubs, this practice of sending copies of the masters, also meant that occasionally the clubs ended up with different mixes that accidentally came out. I'm not specifically aware of any Motown release that alternate Master accidentally came out, but it did on a few other labels.
To robb and greg -- You guys sure are knowledgeable about the mechanics of Motown. Much respect for that! I'm wondering -- other than the construction of the discs [[vinyl vs. polystyrene) and the kind of label used [[shiny vs. dry paper), was there a way to identify at which plant a Motown record was pressed? [[If I recall, the run-out grooves contained only master info., not pressing info.)

[robb_k]

To robb and greg -- You guys sure are knowledgeable about the mechanics of Motown. Much respect for that! I'm wondering -- other than the construction of the discs [[vinyl vs. polystyrene) and the kind of label used [[shiny vs. dry paper), was there a way to identify at which plant a Motown record was pressed? [[If I recall, the run-out grooves contained only master info., not pressing info.)
12784
The plants all had their own pressing code or pressing number system. ZTSC is Columbia Chicago mastering and Columbia Terre Haute pressing. The numbers in front tell which plant. ZTSP and ZSP are other Columbia plants. RCA has different codes. Monarch in L.A. has a delta in front, and number series with information when each calendar year starts and ends. American Pressing in Owosso Michigan uses ARP + 4 and 5 digit numbers. Other plants used letter codes up front with number series after. I don't have time to list all the information.

Soulfulkindamusic website [[I think run by Dave Rimmer), has an information page on pressing plants of the 1960s and 1970s, with a lot of what you want to know, at least about the major national label pressing plants. But, it is missing the indie Detroit and other smaller plants around the country.

[Philles/Motown Gary]

12784
The plants all had their own pressing code or pressing number system. ZTSC is Columbia Chicago mastering and Columbia Terre Haute pressing. The numbers in front tell which plant. ZTSP and ZSP are other Columbia plants. RCA has different codes. Monarch in L.A. has a delta in front, and number series with information when each calendar year starts and ends. American Pressing in Owosso Michigan uses ARP + 4 and 5 digit numbers. Other plants used letter codes up front with number series after. I don't have time to list all the information.

Soulfulkindamusic website [[I think run by Dave Rimmer), has an information page on pressing plants of the 1960s and 1970s, with a lot of what you want to know, at least about the major national label pressing plants. But, it is missing the indie Detroit and other smaller plants around the country.

Thanks, Robb, you've been more than helpful already.

[robb_k]

12785
Here is the link to Dave's other website, Anorak's Corner, where the pressing plant information was moved. There you can see the codes which tell which RCA and
Columbia plants were used, and the assigned pressing numbers matched to their years to date them. The initials "ARP" stand for American Pressing Plant, the Michigan plant used for special emergency orders.

Columbia used ZTSC [[mastering in Chicago/pressing in Terre Haute, Ind.) for special orders from independent labels mostly in The Midwest [[78% from Detroit/Toledo Metro, 19% from Chicagoland, 3% from St. Louis). ZTSP New York, ZTSB Nashville, ZSP Special projects. "Z" designated 7" 45 record.

RCA used a capital letter to designate the plant and numbers for the date [[year) [[RK4m, PK4m. etc). The codes are explained in the text. Good luck! "R" stands for Rockaway, New Jersey, "I" for Indianapolis, and "H" for Hollywood, CA. The code for Harrisburg, PA is not listed. "K" designated 7" 45 record. If numbers were ahead of the "K", that meant that the pressing occurred during January to June. If placed after the "K", it occurred during July-December of the given year. Each year was assigned a capital letter.

http://www.anorakscorner.com/PressingPlantInfo.html

[Philles/Motown Gary]

Thanks, Robb. I'll check it out when I have a chance. Today is just too hectic.

[greg jones]

Thanks, Robb. I'll check it out when I have a chance. Today is just too hectic.

Philles/Motown Gary, Another website to check out that has some info is discogs.com. In the search box, put US Record Pressing Plants. It will give you a list of them and if you read on each one there is more info on how to tell what records were pressed there.

[Philles/Motown Gary]

Thanks very much, greg. I'll check it out later tomorrow when I have more time.