Nothing But Heartaches!

[MissLish]

Thanks to Ian Phillips books I am revisiting all of the Supremes albums in consecutive order. Right now, I am listening to Nothing But Heartaches from More Hits. Although, this one ended their number one streak, I have always enjoyed it. Miss Ross's lead is pure perfection, but the sound that is thrilling my ears today are Mary's and Flo's BGs. Sheer perfection!! Please tell me this is not the Andantes!! I got Mother Dear going now. The Supreme's call and response on these tunes are impeccable! By the time they recorded More Hits, their sound was patented and trademarked. Classic! Go girls!!

[theboyfromxtown]

Miss Lish

If "Nothing but Heartaches" got to number 11, how can it be that it ended their number one streak.

Miss Ketty insists it got to number one twice.

[randy_russi]

Nothing But Heartaches did not top the Billboard charts, but the five previous records certainly did. As far as I can hear
it IS Florence and Mary on backup vocals. Mother Dear was almost issued as a single from this lp as they performed it
twice on TV--Red Skelton Show and Dean Martin.

[Koach]

I think Nothing But Heartaches is very underrated.

[stephanie]

This one is my mothers favorite Supremes song. I dont think Nothing but Heartaches was not a number one single it just broke the streak I think the public had enough of the Supremes and liked the song but it just didnt hit hard. Plus the sound was a bit different its much better than some of their other ones. Its not simplistic like Baby Love or Come see About Me but its great! Probably one of their best pumped up on a loud speaker.

[luke]

The public couldnt get enough of the Supremes-hence their number ones that followed. NBH simply-IMO-wasnt of the same caliber. It seemed rushed and didnt convey the sadness of the lyrics. It's sung like the Happening! The public is more aware than given credit for!

[captainjames]

Amazing isn't it but I always thought "Run Run Run" should have been their first number one single. It was hard beating, the vocals were in your face and the background was ever so strong. I still love it to this day. NBH was good to me and in my opinion was a good song and went to Number 6 on the R & B charts but only 11 on Billboard.

[jobeterob]

After a certain level of popularity for a period of time, the public grows tired of it - it happened with Diana in the 1980's and it certainly happened with Whitney Houston and Madonna; it only happens to the biggest stars. It happened to the Supremes in the late 60's and it happened briefly around Nothing But Heartaches. Nothing But Heartaches is a much better song than Baby Love and has stood the test of time much better. But Baby Love is one of the songs that opened Motown up to America and the world and like Where Did Our Love Go, it defined a sound. Nothing But Heartaches is more complex and also one of the songs where Diana and Flo pretty much duet in a fashion; similar to Come See About Me and Manhattan and You Keep Me Hanging On.

If old Jimmy Ruffin weren't interfering, The Supremes would take over the entire Top 10 of the Motown Forum on SD ~ and continue driving all the other guys away sadly.

[randy_russi]

Well, they came back strong with I Hear A Symphony hitting #1. You Can't Hurry Love, You Keep Me Hangin' On and The
Happening all hit #1 too. Nothing But Heartaches was perhaps too familiar sounding and not enough of a change or it
didn't have the sing-a-long hook that the #1 hits had. Just a consideration:)

[stephanie]

Nothing but Heartaches reminds me of one of those Spector failures it was really good but the public bought it but not the massive hit it should have been. Jobete you explained the stopping of runs of number one hits better than I could. In response to Luke I didnt mean the public was tired of the Supremes although that is what I said. Captain we are in the minority I always though Run, Run should have been a much bigger hit not number one but top ten maybe it was a bit too ragtime for some.

[rovereab]

Whilst I normally prefer the mono 45 mixes I think NBH sounds a bit thin and perhaps a more dynamic mix might have helped its success.

[nomis]

Its a great single Diana rips into the lyrics with passion..I was underwhelmed with the Performance on Hullabaloo not the best Supremes TV performance..they also flew to London and performed it on 'Top Of The Pops" but sadly the stupid BBC wiped the master video tape of that episode and it no loger exists

[randy_russi]

Run,Run,Run could've been a big hit I also agree had it received the airplay needed to get a hit. I loved the B side too,
I'm Giving You Your Freedom.

[sophisticated_soul]

My little 14 year old heart was crushed when "Nothing But Heartaches" failed to be the girls 6th No. 1 in a row. lol. I wanted my girls to go on forever! From then to now I've loved the song. I think it is one of their best and it has aged very well. I loved their performance of the song on Hulabaloo. I think timing and overkill kept it from being a bigger hit. Nothing last forever. . .swept away, swept away.:)

[theboyfromxtown]

Its a great single Diana rips into the lyrics with passion..I was underwhelmed with the Performance on Hullabaloo not the best Supremes TV performance..they also flew to London and performed it on 'Top Of The Pops" but sadly the stupid BBC wiped the master video tape of that episode and it no loger exists

REALLY.....wow so that must be where I saw it. I swore I saw them do it...but I couldn't remember where. You wil l notice tomorrow that I am following you all over this place tonight!

[theboyfromxtown]

Oh no....no NO. I have never got into this one. And yet I love Spector

The UK even missed out on a 45 for this one.

[theboyfromxtown]

After a certain level of popularity for a period of time, the public grows tired of it - it happened with Diana in the 1980's and it certainly happened with Whitney Houston and Madonna; it only happens to the biggest stars. It happened to the Supremes in the late 60's and it happened briefly around Nothing But Heartaches. Nothing But Heartaches is a much better song than Baby Love and has stood the test of time much better. But Baby Love is one of the songs that opened Motown up to America and the world and like Where Did Our Love Go, it defined a sound. Nothing But Heartaches is more complex and also one of the songs where Diana and Flo pretty much duet in a fashion; similar to Come See About Me and Manhattan and You Keep Me Hanging On.

If old Jimmy Ruffin weren't interfering, The Supremes would take over the entire Top 10 of the Motown Forum on SD ~ and continue driving all the other guys away sadly.

No such luck Rob...especially if I am around!

[144man]

I started a thread on "Nothing But Heartaches" on the old forum. It must be in the archives somewhere.

[robbert]

Well, they came back strong with I Hear A Symphony hitting #1. You Can't Hurry Love, You Keep Me Hangin' On and The
Happening all hit #1 too. Nothing But Heartaches was perhaps too familiar sounding and not enough of a change or it
didn't have the sing-a-long hook that the #1 hits had. Just a consideration:)
Randy, don't forget Love Is Here And Now You're Gone. If I remember well, it went to #1 on Billboard or Cashbox Pop, not both.

[nabob]

Run,Run,Run could've been a big hit I also agree had it received the airplay needed to get a hit. I loved the B side too,
I'm Giving You Your Freedom.
Randy:

The song is only vaguely remembered from it's short airplay in 1964 New York. It grew on me after buying the WDOLG album. You and I may be the only two on the forum who really like Run, Run, Run. Every time I hear it images of David Rose's The Stripper surge. The song has been badly bashed in the past on the forum. I'm Giving You Your Freedom is one of the best pre-fame recordings by the girls.

[captainjames]

Randy:

The song is only vaguely remembered from it's short airplay in 1964 New York. It grew on me after buying the WDOLG album. You and I may be the only two on the forum who really like Run, Run, Run. Every time I hear it images of David Rose's The Stripper surge. The song has been badly bashed in the past on the forum. I'm Giving You Your Freedom is one of the best pre-fame recordings by the girls.

Not so,,,,,,"Run Run Run" was loved by this red bloodied American boy. That song was da bomb. The girls were in rare form and definitely trying hard to get a hit with this one.

[luke]

My older brother bought both Let Me Go the Right Way and Lovelight but passed on Run, Run Run. I dont bash it I just think it has a weak hook. Trying too hard to be Spectoresque IMO.

[smark21]

My little 14 year old heart was crushed when "Nothing But Heartaches" failed to be the girls 6th No. 1 in a row. lol. I wanted my girls to go on forever! From then to now I've loved the song. I think it is one of their best and it has aged very well. I loved their performance of the song on Hulabaloo. I think timing and overkill kept it from being a bigger hit. Nothing last forever. . .swept away, swept away.:)

Do you think the lyrical content of NBH might have contributed to it not hitting the top ten? It was the 6th straight song by the girls about a bad relationship. )True, Back in My Arms Again had a happy ending in the chorus but the verses the relationship had been destroyed by Diana's gossipy, trifling friends Mary and Flo). I Hear A Symphony was a needed change as it was a happy love song and musically it moved the group to the next level.

[nomis]

John - you could have seen "Nothing" on Top Of The Pops or Ready Steady Go - the girls performed it on both shows- Ready Steady Go video master has also been wiped...damn it !

[nomis]

There is still in existence photos of the girls backstage at The Top Of The Pops studio and one rehearsal photo on the Ready Steady Go set which i believe is from this apperance

[topdiva1]

Still - NBH was a great song in the wonderful line up of Supreme hits.

[robbert]

Nuff said?

[theboyfromxtown]

Robbert

If The Supremes were in the UK at the time, would Holland miss out on their tour? I doubt your Pete would allow it!

[randy_russi]

I did forget to mention Love Is Here & Now You're Gone as a #1. But in regard to Nothing But Heartaches, a record reaching
#11 on the national chart is a big, hit record. So the song certainly wasn't a failure by any means.

[copley]

Its a great single Diana rips into the lyrics with passion..I was underwhelmed with the Performance on Hullabaloo not the best Supremes TV performance..they also flew to London and performed it on 'Top Of The Pops" but sadly the stupid BBC wiped the master video tape of that episode and it no loger exists

I'm surprised to learn that they sung 'Nothing But Heartaches' on TOTP! From 'Stop In The Name Of Love' to 'You Can't Hurry Love' everything bombed so they weren't exactally hot!

Back In My Arms Again - #40
Nothing But Heartaches - didn't chart
I Hear A Symphony - #39
My World Is Empty Without You - didn't chart
Love Is Like An Itching In My Heart - didn't chart

[jobeterob]

Some of the very best Supremes songs there........the 3 that didn't chart!

Times changed and a few years later they would chart with far weaker singles.

[bradsupremes]

I have to wonder if it was the material for the reason why they charted lower on the charts. Looking at such songs like "The Composer" and "No Matter What Sign You Are," which both barely charted the top 30, it's understandable why they charted so low as they were horrible selections for singles, especially that dreadful "Composer." However, if you look at "Forever Came Today," which to me was the best single ever released on the group, it didn't do so well. The music and lyrics [[similar to the Four Tops' "I'm In A Different World") was so mature and very deep than previous singles. It was a top-notch track, however it only made it to #28 on the billboard. Was "Forever Came Today" too mature and ahead of its time to be a big hit? Musically, it's far more complex than previous singles. Holland-Dozier-Holland have stated that it was one of the greatest songs they ever wrote.

[nomis]

..I think Forever is too sophisticated for the pop audience at the time..

[MissLish]

I have to wonder if it was the material for the reason why they charted lower on the charts. Looking at such songs like "The Composer" and "No Matter What Sign You Are," which both barely charted the top 30, it's understandable why they charted so low as they were horrible selections for singles, especially that dreadful "Composer." However, if you look at "Forever Came Today," which to me was the best single ever released on the group, it didn't do so well. The music and lyrics [[similar to the Four Tops' "I'm In A Different World") was so mature and very deep than previous singles. It was a top-notch track, however it only made it to #28 on the billboard. Was "Forever Came Today" too mature and ahead of its time to be a big hit? Musically, it's far more complex than previous singles. Holland-Dozier-Holland have stated that it was one of the greatest songs they ever wrote.



The public was rebelling against the ousting of Flo.

[nomis]

Miss lish I always thought that was one of the reasons by Forever folks had realized Flo was gone..

[jobeterob]

Forever Came Today was complex but it just wasn't a memorable song with a good hook; it sure wasn't as catchy as Where Did Our Love Go, Stop in the Name of Love or You Can't Hurry Love.

Over the years, the complaints I've heard about Forever are that it stopped and started, went and started etc. Also, what the heck does "Forever Came Today" mean? It's a fairly vague concept; you meet someone and they are forever? Did the Lord walk into your life? Did you die and meet your maker?

That being said, many people have suggested Forever Came Today was the most underrated Diana Ross and the Supremes single ever.

To me, a song like You Keep Me Hanging on was complex and it had Diana as agile as she ever was, blowing through that song whereas on Forever, another complex song, you have it going one speed for a few words, then picking up, the slowing down, then pausing etc.

I will also add that if the fans had known at the time that there were no Mary, Cindy, or Florence on those songs, there would have been hell to pay. But it was a totally different era where news moved a lot slower and we were all a lot less informed.

[MissLish]

Miss lish I always thought that was one of the reasons by Forever folks had realized Flo was gone..




I was being facetious; I think the reason you stated is right on the mark. Initially, I didn't like the song either. One of those that had to grown on me, but this is some of the best work ever from HDH.

[nomis]

lol I was being facetious also...Forever was so different sounding fron their usual singles..it was a bold choice

[marv2]

I'm surprised to learn that they sung 'Nothing But Heartaches' on TOTP! From 'Stop In The Name Of Love' to 'You Can't Hurry Love' everything bombed so they weren't exactally hot!

Back In My Arms Again - #40
Nothing But Heartaches - didn't chart
I Hear A Symphony - #39
My World Is Empty Without You - didn't chart
Love Is Like An Itching In My Heart - didn't chart

It's simple. The songs listed here that did not chart in the U.K., were harder edged R&B songs. They were more Soulful and Blues sounding. They were great recordings that did very well here in America on the R&B/Soul charts. They sounded nothing like "Baby Love"

[bradsupremes]

Forever Came Today was complex but it just wasn't a memorable song with a good hook; it sure wasn't as catchy as Where Did Our Love Go, Stop in the Name of Love or You Can't Hurry Love.

Over the years, the complaints I've heard about Forever are that it stopped and started, went and started etc. Also, what the heck does "Forever Came Today" mean? It's a fairly vague concept; you meet someone and they are forever? Did the Lord walk into your life? Did you die and meet your maker?

That being said, many people have suggested Forever Came Today was the most underrated Diana Ross and the Supremes single ever.

To me, a song like You Keep Me Hanging on was complex and it had Diana as agile as she ever was, blowing through that song whereas on Forever, another complex song, you have it going one speed for a few words, then picking up, the slowing down, then pausing etc.

I will also add that if the fans had known at the time that there were no Mary, Cindy, or Florence on those songs, there would have been hell to pay. But it was a totally different era where news moved a lot slower and we were all a lot less informed.

I think the whole "Forever" meant the waiting. That entire period of waiting for someone to walk into your life and change things around and then suddenly, all that waiting came today when that person walked into your life. You're right about the song not having a hook to it though.

If you also notice with the song, it was very untraditional in terms of a song structure. Most songs are A,B,A,B,C,B. "Forever Came Today" was A,B,C,A,B with the song's bridge in the middle of the song which was unorthodox. I actually like the bridge in the middle of the song. Very much like "I'm In A Different World," both songs were about this monumental moment in one's life where love changed their entire view of life and the world around them. That being said, the way both songs were musically structured gave them this darker/mature undertone underneath. It gives the songs far more of a seriousness. Where such songs as "I Hear A Symphony" have this light, happy feeling about them, "Forever Came Today" contained something deeper that gave it a serious tone to it.

I'm not sure if the song's performance on the charts had anything to do with the departure of Florence. "In And Out Of Love" was released in October 1967 months after Florence left and it was a top 10 hit for the group. "Forever Came Today" was released in February 1968.

[marv2]

The way those records charted had nothing whatsoever to do with Florence Ballard's departure from the group, because we were all led to [[actually lied to) believe that she left amicably on her own..........

[marv2]

The public was rebelling against the ousting of Flo.

No, that was not true. Didn't you hear the audio interview of Diana Ross lying about how and why Florence left the group? That is all we the public knew at that time.....

[nomis]

yes marv and its not like Mary interrupted her said "excuse me Diane thats not the reason Flo left.."..Mary went along with it as well so dont just call out Diana on this subject- Berry and Mary were equally involved in it...

[midnight johnny]

yes marv and its not like mary interrupted her said "excuse me diane thats not the reason flo left.."..mary went along with it as well so dont just call out diana on this subject- berry and mary were equally involved in it...

.....exactly!

[marv2]

yes marv and its not like Mary interrupted her said "excuse me Diane thats not the reason Flo left.."..Mary went along with it as well so dont just call out Diana on this subject- Berry and Mary were equally involved in it...

She couldn't. She and Cindy Birdsong were forbidden to even speak in interviews by that point. If you believe that Mary Wilson had the power and intention to fire Florence Ballard from the Supremes, then you are delusional. Sorry, those are the facts.

[jobeterob]

There has only very rarely been criticism of Diana by Mary.

Generally, if there has criticism, it has come from obsessed or deranged fans.

About 5 years ago, Mary asked that it be stopped but in certain quarters, her words weren't heard let alone heeded.

[MissLish]

yes marv and its not like Mary interrupted her said "excuse me Diane thats not the reason Flo left.."..Mary went along with it as well so dont just call out Diana on this subject- Berry and Mary were equally involved in it...




xo @ nomis

[MissLish]

There has only very rarely been criticism of Diana by Mary.

Generally, if there has criticism, it has come from obsessed or deranged fans.

About 5 years ago, Mary asked that it be stopped but in certain quarters, her words weren't heard let alone heeded.




And will never be heard in those obsessed and deranged quarters; for those fans, it's not about the supremes really, it's about some unresolved BS that took place or didn't take place in their lives. Should we blame poor parenting, mental illness, or both?

[theboyfromxtown]

I saw this thread and it said Nothing But Heartaches. Silly me.......I thought it was about the song.

Sorry to disturb. I will leave immediately.

[robbert]

Well John, let's teach 'm.
The 45 mono mix of NBH was IMO superior to the stereo version on the More Hits album. Starting with the sound of the intro, the momo mix had a heavier, thumpin' sound, more like Back In My Arms Again. Especially the intro differs so much in sound from the stereo version, that I couldn't believe my ears in 1965, when the album came out.

[theboyfromxtown]

Yeah....it kind of bellowed out when I heard it on the radio from a 45.....usually from tinny transistor radio speakers.

When I played the album [[admittedly it was only in mono in my days) it sounded like I was listing to it under the bed covers.

The UK didn't get More Hits in stereo - I had to get a US copy and we all know how expensive they were!

[jobeterob]

Those qualities should have led the single to be a bigger hit then, right???

I think the public just had a minor OD on the Supremes at that moment because those heavier rhythm songs of the Supremes have really stood up better than those major hits, Baby Love and Where Did Our Love Go. But, when you go see Diana in concert, the huge response is definitely to Baby Love, Stop in the Name of Love and Where Did Our Love Go and there definitely is no Nothing But Heartaches; but she does do a lengthy My World Is Empty Without You.

[theboyfromxtown]

Rob

When I wrote under the bed covers....for you, replace it with......snowed under!

[Motown Andy]

I don't believe Nothing But Heartaches was #11 because it was any less than the other songs the Supremes put out. I always felt that if it had come out a few weeks earlier or later, it would have been a bigger hit. Here's why. Look at the top 10 the week it stalled at #11:
#1: Help
#2: Like A Rolling Stone
#3 California Girls
#4 Unchained Melody
#5 It’s The Same Old Song
#6 I Got You Babe
#7 You Were On My Mind
#8 Papa’s Got A Brand New Bag
#9 Eve Of Destruction
#10 Hold Me, Thrill Me, Kiss Me!

These songs are all mega-classics!

[jobeterob]

Good point Andy; I do feel Nothing But Heartaches was a better song than It's The Same Old Song. But Same Old Song for me is like Baby Love; I've had it a few too many times.

John, do you have any idea how good the sound quality can be in an Igloo? I will try and reduce the size of one of my snow pictures so everyone on here can see how much snow has fallen in the last 2 weeks!

[theboyfromxtown]

I will admit to it being somewhat lightweight and summerful in feel but that's about it. When that came out, it was bright skies, sunny-ish, warm and about feeling good...we didn't want slow moody songs with too much to think about.

I agree that It's The Same Old Song and I better include Papa too [[or I shall be in trouble) were mega-classics.

I'm tooooooo biased...even though I have the rest of those songs in my collection [[except Hold Me...whatever that was!!

Besides, number 11 is number one twice!

HA-HA

Rob....just hearing the word "igloo" makes me run for my hot water bottle! We have no snow here in London now so even Martha can come over here and not have to worry about planes not taking off....although I do hear that over there across that big pond, there are a few problems with that sort of thing.

[Motown_M_1056]

I will admit to it being somewhat lightweight and summerful in feel but that's about it. When that came out, it was bright skies, sunny-ish, warm and about feeling good...we didn't want slow moody songs with too much to think about.

I agree that It's The Same Old Song and I better include Papa too [[or I shall be in trouble) were mega-classics.

I'm tooooooo biased...even though I have the rest of those songs in my collection [[except Hold Me...whatever that was!!

Besides, number 11 is number one twice!

HA-HA

Rob....just hearing the word "igloo" makes me run for my hot water bottle! We have no snow here in London now so even Martha can come over here and not have to worry about planes not taking off....although I do hear that over there across that big pond, there are a few problems with that sort of thing.

John, I can't believe you don't have Hold Me, Thrill Me, Kiss Me by Mel Carter in your music library. It's a classic. Shame on you. I BET CAL KNOWS IT.

[theboyfromxtown]

Should I look in my "dont let anyone see you like these songs" cupboard cos I really dont know that one at all.....I suppose I better look on YOUTUBE.

Well I just heard it...it sounds a bit 50-ish to me, with those backing vocals almost taking over at times. Nice though..and he looks a clean boy who deserves to do well.

Consider me well and truly told off!!

Anyway, it's a bit to early for me to consider it a classic..I've only heard it once! HAHA

[Motown_M_1056]

Should I look in my "dont let anyone see you like these songs" cupboard cos I really dont know that one at all.....I suppose I better look on YOUTUBE.

Well I just heard it...it sounds a bit 50-ish to me, with those backing vocals almost taking over at times. Nice though..and he looks a clean boy who deserves to do well.

Consider me well and truly told off!!

Anyway, it's a bit to early for me to consider it a classic..I've only heard it once! HAHA

John, Hold Me...is indeed a classic. It's one of those swoon on the dancefloor songs. Mel Carter was a protege of Sam Cooke's, thus the clean- cut, teen idol look. He did very well in the Sixties on the Easy Listening charts. Staying on topic, The Supremes covered his All of A Sudden My Heart Sings on There's A Place For Us. Diana practically copied it note for note. The Flos appear on his Mel Carter in Hollywood DVD and CD.:cool::cool:

[floyjoy678]

No, that was not true. Didn't you hear the audio interview of Diana Ross lying about how and why Florence left the group? That is all we the public knew at that time.....

Do you think it would've been better if Diana said "Flo was a drunk who suffered from depression and other mental problems, she was showing up intoxicated and missed some gigs because of this and was skipping out on recording sessions and was just overall being difficult and as a result we decided to fire her". I think Diana and Motown saved Flo's ass by telling the public she left the group to settle down.

[smark21]

I don't believe Nothing But Heartaches was #11 because it was any less than the other songs the Supremes put out. I always felt that if it had come out a few weeks earlier or later, it would have been a bigger hit. Here's why. Look at the top 10 the week it stalled at #11:
#1: Help
#2: Like A Rolling Stone
#3 California Girls
#4 Unchained Melody
#5 It’s The Same Old Song
#6 I Got You Babe
#7 You Were On My Mind
#8 Papa’s Got A Brand New Bag
#9 Eve Of Destruction
#10 Hold Me, Thrill Me, Kiss Me!

These songs are all mega-classics!

I was wondering what was on the top ten that week. Not all songs can go #1 and there's still competition there. Besides it's 45 years later, does it really matter anymore if Nothing But Heartaches stalled at #11? If one's enjoyment of a song is based on chart performance, then one should stop listening to music and read accounting text books for leisure time activity.

[smark21]

Do you think it would've been better if Diana said "Flo was a drunk who suffered from depression and other mental problems, she was showing up intoxicated and missed some gigs because of this and was skipping out on recording sessions and was just overall being difficult and as a result we decided to fire her". I think Diana and Motown saved Flo's ass by telling the public she left the group to settle down.

Touche! Excellent point.

[marv2]

Do you think it would've been better if Diana said "Flo was a drunk who suffered from depression and other mental problems, she was showing up intoxicated and missed some gigs because of this and was skipping out on recording sessions and was just overall being difficult and as a result we decided to fire her". I think Diana and Motown saved Flo's ass by telling the public she left the group to settle down.

The truth is always better. The problem is, how much of what you just said is the truth? It would have been better on Diane and Motown if they had never screwed her over to begin with, but since it happened they should have come clean a lot earlier or they would not have to suffer the books, movies and plays that came about years later.

[johnjeb]

At the time of its' release I felt NBH was too similar to BIMAA, and paled by comparison. Just based on that I wasn't surprised when it stalled at number 11, much to this teenage fanatic's disappointment at seeing the #1 streak broken.

Add to that the fact that More Hits was released within a month of the single's release, which probably didn't help sales for the single. I actually bought the album before the single, which I bought only to have the picture sleeve. [[Probably my first purchase for collectible purposes only!)

The dreadful flip, He Holds His Own, probably their worst B-side, certainly didn't help sales either.

Generally having TV exposure near the start of a single's release is ideal. NBH was released in July, when most TV shows were running repeats. It was a good 6 weeks at the start of the new television season before The Supremes sang NBH on Hullabaloo. By then NBH was nothing but history.

[[NBH has never been a favorite of mine, although enjoyable on occasion. Ironically It's The Same Old Song is one of my favorite Tops' singles.)

[robbert]

How come the insights on NBH become intertwined with thoughts and rumours about Flo leaving the Supremes???

[theboyfromxtown]

John-I thought "He Holds His Own" was too slow and awkward, and I couldn't take to it. I thought the same about "Always In My Heart" but I changed my mind about that one as the years went on.

Robbert-It must be the music...it has different effects on different people! I guess that's why I like "Always In My Heart" these days!

[Motown_M_1056]

How come the insights on NBH become intertwined with thoughts and rumours about Flo leaving the Supremes???


Robbert, I credit it with some peoples' degree of mental illness. They can't focus on anything else, but drama. If you continue to listen to their constant conspiracy theories regarding the Supremes, you'll end up dreading the trio and the nutty fans.

[marv2]

How come the insights on NBH become intertwined with thoughts and rumours about Flo leaving the Supremes???

Robbert, it started when MissLish made this comment:

"The public was rebelling against the ousting of Flo."

[smark21]

How come the insights on NBH become intertwined with thoughts and rumours about Flo leaving the Supremes???

Because most Supremes related threads degenerate into the bitterness and drama of the group's history.

[jobeterob]

Another view:

Theories aside, there was more than one reason why Heartaches didn't crack the top ten. It had a different structure that the previous hits and perhaps too many choruses which gave it a monotony. I agree with many that the song should have gone all the way, it's one of my favorites. I loved Diana's sleepy delivery on the lyrics then hitting the chorus with angst.

Also hurting Heartaches was Motown's release of the More Hits lp simultaneously. Motown had always released several hits on an artist to build up to the accompanying lp. The anticipation often resulted in far greater sales. In the case of Heartaches, when played on AM radio, listeners could either pay 50 cents for the single or 3 bucks like I did for that song and two other massive hits included. It was a situation where the single helped sell the album but the album thwarted sales of the single. Rarely did Motown do this. The next time, to my memory, that Motown released a single in conjunction with the lp was I'm Gonna Make You Love Me. It worked that time, but the Supremes were enjoying massive publicity with a hit single [[Love Child), a hit lp by the same name and a highly successful tv special [[TCB).

It's all about marketing....

[captainjames]

Yeah but # 11 on the charts is still a hit and hard to come by.

[MissLish]

Is the 45 mono mix available on and of the CD compilations?

[theboyfromxtown]

Nice one Rob. Interesting reading.

MishLish - The 45 mono mix is available on CD see this link

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Complete-Motown-Singles-Vol-5-1965-6Disc-CD-NEW-/350293003131?pt=UK_CDsDVDs_CDs_CDs_GL&hash=item518f170b7b

[johnjeb]

John - Last night I got my More Hits/HDH 2-fer and played the four slow songs: HHHO, "I'm In Love Again", [[YGB)AIMH and "Remove This Doubt". HHHO just doesn't work for me. I've always liked AIMH. I never bought the "Come See About Me" 45 from 1964 until late in 1966 just to have AIMH which had yet to appear on an album. I was miffed when it was released on the HDH LP just two months later! But I guess I don't like AIMH that much since I just noticed I don't have it on my iPod.

HHHO didn't fit the MH LP and was a worse choice for a flip to a song that might have needed any extra push. [[And, regressing to my 15 year-old mind-set here, of course he brings nothing but heartaches if he has to hold his own! Sorry, I just let the boy overpower the man in me. Sometimes I can't help myself.)

Andy's suggestion that had NBH been released a couple of weeks later may have been right on target. Although WDOLG was released July 11, 1964 and went to #1, NBH is the only other 60s Supremes single to be released in mid-summer, July 31, 1965. [[EGTRTL was also released on the 70s Supremes in mid-summer, July 11, 1970!)

YCHL & Reflections were both released in mid-August of 1966 & 1967, respectively, and reached the top of the charts. The two albums featuring WDOLG & YCH were released in mid to late September of 1964 & 1966, respectively, and also went to the top of the album charts. So maybe late summer releases for singles and September releases for albums worked better than mid-summer releases for either. As Rob mentioned it's all about marketing.

When the MH album was released one Boston radio station played most of the cuts and had contests to win the album. I can imagine this sent teenagers out to the stores to buy the MH LP instead of the NBH 45. I know that's what I did.

But I think I know the real reason this single stalled. It may have been the title. I just remembered that my brother, only five years-old at the time, thought the girls were singing "Nothing but hard eggs"!

[[Note: Dates taken from Joel Whitburn's Billboard chart books refer to dates the records charted not the actual release dates. In the 60s, Supremes records generally charted immediately upon release.)

[theboyfromxtown]

John

"Nothing but hard eggs"..love it. HA HA

I shall never forget a previous thread here...one poster called a later song "Canary Love". lol

[marv2]

theboyfromxtown, "Canary Love"? Well that is just silly. Every six year old knows they were singing "Kangaroo Love"! LOL!!!!

[MissLish]

Nice one Rob. Interesting reading.

MishLish - The 45 mono mix is available on CD see this link

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Complete-Motown-Singles-Vol-5-1965-6Disc-CD-NEW-/350293003131?pt=UK_CDsDVDs_CDs_CDs_GL&hash=item518f170b7b




Thank you theboyfromxtown. I have the collection through Volume 4. This is a reminder that I should complete the series.

[MissLish]

I never could, and still can't get into He Holds His Own. I remember thinking the first time I heard it that it was almost like a throw back to their pre-hit days. By now the Supremes had an established sound, and He Holds Is Own was not part of that sound.

[theboyfromxtown]

Misslish....I agree......so why do we all seem to think it wasn't that good but it still got released.

We must be missing something but I am damned if I know what it is. Now if Berry Gordy had written the song, that might have explained it but it was HDH.

[MissLish]

If I recall correctly, I remember it being said that DJs were flipping NBH and also HHHO, playing the song and that it became lukewarm popular.

[jobeterob]

Other than a weak opening, I like He Holds His Own, mainly because of the reserved, low key, plaintive performance from Diana.

[bradsupremes]

There's some things I don't understand about the selection of B-sides. Some were top notch tracks that should have been A-sides like "Going Down For The Third Time," yet others were so poorly selected when there could have been so many better choices. For instance, "He Holds His Own" was the B-side to "Nothing But Heartaches," but why didn't they select a better tune like "I'm So Glad Heartaches Don't Always Last," or "Honey Boy." The other example is the B-side to "Forever Came Today." Why on earth did they decide that "Time Changes Things," a 5-year old track, should be the B-side? There were so many other better songs that would have been better choices like "I'm Gonna Make It [[I Will Wait For You)" or "Then."

I love "Some Things You Never Get Used To," but I actually thought the B-side, "You've Been So Wonderful To Me," should have been the A-side. Another song I felt should have been a single was "You Gave Me Love." That's a top-notch track.

[theboyfromxtown]

Brad

How right you are too. Using "Time Changes Things" again was quite extraordinary to many fans. By that time, we knew HDH were gone, so why use one of their old songs AGAIN, as a b side. I wonder if it was part of the agreement that came with HDH coming back and doing a bit more work on the top side......after they had officially gone off on their own.

I can recall the time when I'm Gonna Make It and You've Been So Wonderful To Me were firm favourites even with casual Motown fans. "Then" is one of my personal favourites from them of all time but I will only listen to the longer mono version.

You chose some of my real favourites in your post.

Brad - did you get those George Soloman remixes that he put up on here some time back?

[robbert]

Motown Complete Singles vol. 5:

1. Mother Dear - Supremes
2. Nothing But Heartaches - Supremes
3. He Holds His Own - Supremes
4. Nothing But Heartaches [[second versions) - Supremes

Haven't got it. Can anyone tlel me what is special about track #4 ?

On the subject of odd b-sides. When Time Changes Things appeared as b-side I immediately knew [[I remember me thinking it) that this was the end of the popularity of the group. I knew HDH were gone and that all kinds of nasty things were going on, like law suits. But to put a song from 1963 on the b-side in 1968... that said it for me. Something was very, VERY wrong.
In retrospect I would say it was unforgivable, and I put the blame on Quality Control, of whatever what was left of it in 1968.