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Nitro2015
03-31-2017, 02:12 PM
I was wondering about Diana Ross's recording situation, contract-wise, after she parted ways with Motown in the early 2000's.

I remember that in 2004 interviews Diana said record companies were not interested in her and that Clive Davis would not return her phone calls.

She said that in a 2004 interview. In the same interview, the interviewee said that she looked like a 30-year-old woman at 60 and both laughed-, I've saw it in Youtube years ago but the video was removed. Diana also said that radio stations would play only her old records like "Baby Love".

I know that Diana had trouble selling records in U.S. in the 1990's but I think her situation, in terms of record deals, is far difficult to explain after Motown let her go.

Anyone has some insight about the reason she faced so much adversity to score a record deal after 2002?

I wonder too what really happened between her and Clive Davis.

PeaceNHarmony
03-31-2017, 03:12 PM
Easy - how many 60 year olds have active recording contracts? Unfortunately that's the biz; it's no statement against Diana Ross, one of the most beloved and successful singers ever. As to Clive, who knows. He makes some asinine decisions. He can sell records but most for the past 10 years are crappy jukebox albums. Davis has not yet released 'dead people singing virtual duets with other dead people of other dead peoples' songs with choral backgrounds by the Morman Tabernacle Choir' but give him time!

Circa 1824
03-31-2017, 05:01 PM
It was my understanding Clive wanted to sign Diana, but she refused because he wanted control over her recording. Instead we got her "gem" called I Love You.

Guy
03-31-2017, 05:07 PM
It was my understanding Clive wanted to sign Diana, but she refused because he wanted control over her recording. Instead we got her "gem" called I Love You.

Circa 1824, your version of events sounds right including your characterization of "I Love You."

carlo
03-31-2017, 06:31 PM
I'm glad she didn't end up with Clive. I Love You is way better compared to Aretha's Sings the Diva Classics album.

I think Diana's obstacles in scoring a record deal after 2002 come down to two things: historical record sales and executive creative control over her music. Most of her 90s albums did not sell well initially. I would be curious to know what the numbers are now, after the various reissues in Japan and around the world, I'm sure the numbers are much higher now. However, at the time of release, I read that Everyday Is A New Day sold a total of 75,000 copies, even with the promotion/publicity on Oprah, Double Platinum, RTL, etc. It's a huge risk for a big label to take on any artist who has had a recent track record for lower sales numbers and then also give them total creative control over the project.

I'm sure if Diana had danced to Clive's wishes, he would have had her do an album similar to Aretha's...covers of songs that everyone knows and loves. It guarantees a solid number of sales due to the artist name recognition and the name recognition with the songs...but how cliché is that? When it comes to music, Diana is a real artist. She chooses material wisely...songs that she believes in. She would rather do it her way or not at all. I believe that's why she has had no deal or new music.

luke
03-31-2017, 06:51 PM
Doin it her way at RCA didn't really pay off. Aretha did a number of albums with Narada and Luther and Lauryn Hill too

Nitro2015
03-31-2017, 07:33 PM
I'm glad she didn't end up with Clive. I Love You is way better compared to Aretha's Sings the Diva Classics album.


I'm sure if Diana had danced to Clive's wishes, he would have had her do an album similar to Aretha's...covers of songs that everyone knows and loves. It guarantees a solid number of sales due to the artist name recognition and the name recognition with the songs...but how cliché is that?


But even without Clive, Diana did exaclty that with the "I Love You" album. This is the question.

It's not really clear to me what really happened between Clive and Diana. And I don't know if Diana would be so unrealistic in 2004 to demand 100% of control in doing an album for a big company. As every artist, she would have her needs and demands, but I don't buy that after so many low-selling U.S. albums, she would be that inflexible.

I think that, somehow, Clive didn't want to work with Diana.

And, about "I Love You", I don't think it's a bad album. Diana's voice is a lot different [[it did lost that youthful exuberance that she had until the late 1990's), and the production of the songs is really bland, but the album has its sparkle.

PeaceNHarmony
03-31-2017, 07:42 PM
I'm glad she didn't end up with Clive. I Love You is way better compared to Aretha's Sings the Diva Classics album.

I think Diana's obstacles in scoring a record deal after 2002 come down to two things: historical record sales and executive creative control over her music. Most of her 90s albums did not sell well initially. I would be curious to know what the numbers are now, after the various reissues in Japan and around the world, I'm sure the numbers are much higher now. However, at the time of release, I read that Everyday Is A New Day sold a total of 75,000 copies, even with the promotion/publicity on Oprah, Double Platinum, RTL, etc. It's a huge risk for a big label to take on any artist who has had a recent track record for lower sales numbers and then also give them total creative control over the project.

I'm sure if Diana had danced to Clive's wishes, he would have had her do an album similar to Aretha's...covers of songs that everyone knows and loves. It guarantees a solid number of sales due to the artist name recognition and the name recognition with the songs...but how cliché is that? When it comes to music, Diana is a real artist. She chooses material wisely...songs that she believes in. She would rather do it her way or not at all. I believe that's why she has had no deal or new music.

Exactly. And, really, though the conjecture is fun other than Diana and Clive no one knows what may have occurred. Re: 'I Love You', it's a decent LP that I listen to every now and again, and to bring some clarity to the discussion of the LP it's worth noting that it sold [[according to SoundScan) about 235,000 copies worldwide which certainly far exceeds anything Diana's M'town peers for the same decade excepting Stevie Wonder.

carlo
03-31-2017, 10:07 PM
...it's worth noting that it sold [[according to SoundScan) about 235,000 copies worldwide which certainly far exceeds anything Diana's M'town peers for the same decade excepting Stevie Wonder.

Good point. Many artists and even genres go through cycles in popularity with the general public. I would argue that if Diana released an album now, it would perform significantly better, sales-wise, than all of the albums she's released in the last 30 years. Just gaging the general public on social media, she seems to get a lot of love these days from everyone. Her Facebook page is well over one million followers. She has entered the legendary era of her career and people respect that now, more than ever, which is why she continues to do so well with her tours. It's too bad that no one is approaching her with record deals, because I would think it would be a lucrative endeavour. Artistically and musically, she still has so much to offer.

PeaceNHarmony
04-01-2017, 08:46 AM
Good point. Many artists and even genres go through cycles in popularity with the general public. I would argue that if Diana released an album now, it would perform significantly better, sales-wise, than all of the albums she's released in the last 30 years. Just gaging the general public on social media, she seems to get a lot of love these days from everyone. Her Facebook page is well over one million followers. She has entered the legendary era of her career and people respect that now, more than ever, which is why she continues to do so well with her tours. It's too bad that no one is approaching her with record deals, because I would think it would be a lucrative endeavour. Artistically and musically, she still has so much to offer.

Agreed all around! There are Diana albums I would love her to record, but I think she's lost interest in recording.

Bluebrock
04-04-2017, 06:49 AM
Agreed all around! There are Diana albums I would love her to record, but I think she's lost interest in recording.
Let me clarify this once and for all. Diana continues to get offers of record deals and has done so for the past few years. There are a couple of labels that want her to record "standards" albums in the vein of the great American Songbook. This is what Clive Davis had her in mind for. He made Diana a more than decent offer for a 4 album deal which she came quite close to signing, but she felt that the market was already over flooded with veteran artists putting this type of album out so she backed out at the last minute. Davis has subsequently returned with similar offers.
She has also been offered deals to record more "current" material with the younger and trendy producers which is of much more interest to her, but here is the stumbling block. Diana would have to travel around the world to promote the product and then undertake an extensive world tour. Those are the conditions, and Diana does not feel like she wants to take on such a commitment at this stage in her life. She is happy to tour the USA and undertake the occasional private gig overseas, but she enjoys spending time with here family and does not want to be away for months at a time. She does not need the money, and she is unlikely to change her stance on this. Alicia Keys wrote some songs specifically for Diana whilst Will i am has expressed a desire to write and produce for her as have Nile Rogers and Pharrell Williams. Justin Timberlake attended one of her gigs last year and practically begged Diana to let him write and produce for her to no avail. It is very unlikely to happen folks, and the only person who can make this happen is Diana herself, but she will not agree to the conditions. I hope this clears up the matter once and for all. My advice? Enjoy her back catalogue and enjoy the occasional unreleased songs on the expanded editions. The forthcoming Ross78 looks especially interesting.....

marv2
04-04-2017, 12:53 PM
Let me clarify this once and for all. Diana continues to get offers of record deals and has done so for the past few years. There are a couple of labels that want her to record "standards" albums in the vein of the great American Songbook. This is what Clive Davis had her in mind for. He made Diana a more than decent offer for a 4 album deal which she came quite close to signing, but she felt that the market was already over flooded with veteran artists putting this type of album out so she backed out at the last minute. Davis has subsequently returned with similar offers.
She has also been offered deals to record more "current" material with the younger and trendy producers which is of much more interest to her, but here is the stumbling block. Diana would have to travel around the world to promote the product and then undertake an extensive world tour. Those are the conditions, and Diana does not feel like she wants to take on such a commitment at this stage in her life. She is happy to tour the USA and undertake the occasional private gig overseas, but she enjoys spending time with here family and does not want to be away for months at a time. She does not need the money, and she is unlikely to change her stance on this. Alicia Keys wrote some songs specifically for Diana whilst Will i am has expressed a desire to write and produce for her as have Nile Rogers and Pharrell Williams. Justin Timberlake attended one of her gigs last year and practically begged Diana to let him write and produce for her to no avail. It is very unlikely to happen folks, and the only person who can make this happen is Diana herself, but she will not agree to the conditions. I hope this clears up the matter once and for all. My advice? Enjoy her back catalogue and enjoy the occasional unreleased songs on the expanded editions. The forthcoming Ross78 looks especially interesting.....


is she interested in recording anymore?

Roberta75
04-04-2017, 01:19 PM
is she interested in recording anymore?


"Originally Posted by marv2 October 2016
I don't even go into most Diana Ross threads on here."


LOLOLOL

jobeterob
04-04-2017, 01:29 PM
Let me clarify this once and for all. Diana continues to get offers of record deals and has done so for the past few years. There are a couple of labels that want her to record "standards" albums in the vein of the great American Songbook. This is what Clive Davis had her in mind for. He made Diana a more than decent offer for a 4 album deal which she came quite close to signing, but she felt that the market was already over flooded with veteran artists putting this type of album out so she backed out at the last minute. Davis has subsequently returned with similar offers.
She has also been offered deals to record more "current" material with the younger and trendy producers which is of much more interest to her, but here is the stumbling block. Diana would have to travel around the world to promote the product and then undertake an extensive world tour. Those are the conditions, and Diana does not feel like she wants to take on such a commitment at this stage in her life. She is happy to tour the USA and undertake the occasional private gig overseas, but she enjoys spending time with here family and does not want to be away for months at a time. She does not need the money, and she is unlikely to change her stance on this. Alicia Keys wrote some songs specifically for Diana whilst Will i am has expressed a desire to write and produce for her as have Nile Rogers and Pharrell Williams. Justin Timberlake attended one of her gigs last year and practically begged Diana to let him write and produce for her to no avail. It is very unlikely to happen folks, and the only person who can make this happen is Diana herself, but she will not agree to the conditions. I hope this clears up the matter once and for all. My advice? Enjoy her back catalogue and enjoy the occasional unreleased songs on the expanded editions. The forthcoming Ross78 looks especially interesting.....

Makes sense.

How old is Clive Davis now? Is he still active?

Roberta75
04-04-2017, 01:33 PM
Makes sense.

How old is Clive Davis now? Is he still active?

Mr Clive Davis is 85 years old and still real active and sharp. Ive always respected him and I comend him for coming out of the closet as a openly gay gentleman a few years ago.

Fondly,

Roberta

Jaap
04-04-2017, 02:40 PM
Alicia Keys wrote some songs specifically for Diana whilst Will i am has expressed a desire to write and produce for her as have Nile Rogers and Pharrell Williams. Justin Timberlake attended one of her gigs last year and practically begged Diana to let him write and produce for her to no avail.
I'm happy she is not doing those "standards" albums--but wow, would be great if she would work with Alicia Keys and do a low-key soul album. That would be such a better "end" to her recording career than the "I Love You" album [[although good to hear some really like the album, sounds to much like a karaoke production to me--great voice though!).

RanRan79
04-04-2017, 02:58 PM
I'm happy she is not doing those "standards" albums--but wow, would be great if she would work with Alicia Keys and do a low-key soul album. That would be such a better "end" to her recording career than the "I Love You" album [[although good to hear some really like the album, sounds to much like a karaoke production to me--great voice though!).

I think one, maybe two, albums of exceptionally produced standards would be great, especially if she chose more of the ones that aren't constantly done. But a "low-key soul" album would also be a great idea. "I Love You" was good but the sound on some of the cuts was definitely karaoke.

thommg
04-04-2017, 03:00 PM
If Diana were to record some standards albums, I would want them to be along the lines of Diana Sings Stevie Wonder, Diana Sings Smokey Robinson, Diana Sings Ashford & Simpson, Diana Sings Bacharach & David.... See where I'm going with this?

JohnnyB
04-04-2017, 04:36 PM
Let me clarify this once and for all. Diana continues to get offers of record deals and has done so for the past few years. There are a couple of labels that want her to record "standards" albums in the vein of the great American Songbook. This is what Clive Davis had her in mind for. He made Diana a more than decent offer for a 4 album deal which she came quite close to signing, but she felt that the market was already over flooded with veteran artists putting this type of album out so she backed out at the last minute. Davis has subsequently returned with similar offers.
She has also been offered deals to record more "current" material with the younger and trendy producers which is of much more interest to her, but here is the stumbling block. Diana would have to travel around the world to promote the product and then undertake an extensive world tour. Those are the conditions, and Diana does not feel like she wants to take on such a commitment at this stage in her life. She is happy to tour the USA and undertake the occasional private gig overseas, but she enjoys spending time with here family and does not want to be away for months at a time. She does not need the money, and she is unlikely to change her stance on this. Alicia Keys wrote some songs specifically for Diana whilst Will i am has expressed a desire to write and produce for her as have Nile Rogers and Pharrell Williams. Justin Timberlake attended one of her gigs last year and practically begged Diana to let him write and produce for her to no avail. It is very unlikely to happen folks, and the only person who can make this happen is Diana herself, but she will not agree to the conditions. I hope this clears up the matter once and for all. My advice? Enjoy her back catalogue and enjoy the occasional unreleased songs on the expanded editions. The forthcoming Ross78 looks especially interesting.....

I always appreciate your insight Bluebrock. Thank you for your response. I have a question you may be able to answer. Is there any possibility the Harold Arlen project will ever be released. I assume Diana owns the masters and with the interest in her back catalogue [[vaulted catalogue included), I assume the release would be welcomed. Are you familiar with the sessions?

RanRan79
04-04-2017, 06:59 PM
If Diana were to record some standards albums, I would want them to be along the lines of Diana Sings Stevie Wonder, Diana Sings Smokey Robinson, Diana Sings Ashford & Simpson, Diana Sings Bacharach & David.... See where I'm going with this?

Absolutely fantastic idea! I think the public would really get into Diana covering Stevie or Smokey, but all of those are excellent options. I think someone in another thread mentioned something about Diana and Smokey doing something together. Now that might generate a ton of attention. Smokey would be the perfect duet partner for her at this stage of her career. Her voice hasn't held up as well as I would have hoped, being that I'm a huge fan of her vocal skills, but there was a period in recent years where she sounded almost horrible. Not sure what was going on before, but recent clips I've seen of her in concert it seems like her voice is getting back into good shape. But with the age induced voice changes, I think she would need a duet partner like Smokey. He's not going to try to compete with her and she's not going to feel the need to compete with him. If those two do this thing right, it could potentially be a classic.

marybrewster
04-04-2017, 07:06 PM
Doin it her way at RCA didn't really pay off.

With the exception maybe of the 20 million $$$ she took home when she signed, LOL.

Roberta75
04-04-2017, 07:21 PM
With the exception maybe of the 20 million $$$ she took home when she signed, LOL.

Touche marybrewster. LOL

Fondly,

Roberta

marv2
04-04-2017, 07:28 PM
With the exception maybe of the 20 million $$$ she took home when she signed, LOL.

It did not pay off for RCA which is partly the reason she does not have a contract now. Made no real money for Motown either the second go around........

Roberta75
04-04-2017, 07:37 PM
It did not pay off for RCA which is partly the reason she does not have a contract now. Made no real money for Motown either the second go around........

"Originally Posted by marv2 October 2016
I don't even go into most Diana Ross threads on here."

LOLOLOL

helga
04-04-2017, 08:08 PM
Let me clarify this once and for all. Diana continues to get offers of record deals and has done so for the past few years. There are a couple of labels that want her to record "standards" albums in the vein of the great American Songbook. This is what Clive Davis had her in mind for. He made Diana a more than decent offer for a 4 album deal which she came quite close to signing, but she felt that the market was already over flooded with veteran artists putting this type of album out so she backed out at the last minute. Davis has subsequently returned with similar offers.

If this were true, I have a hard time believing that either of the parties involved [[especially Miss Ross), would divulge the details of failed contractual negotiations. For someone who refuses to identify themselves, you post a lot of B.S.

helga
04-04-2017, 08:18 PM
To add on to my last post, if you were for real, you wouldn't be posting all of these secret details on a public forum, regardless of your self professed anonymity. A business professional would be bound to a confidentiality agreement and would not risk posting endless details on a public forum in regards to contracts, music projects, etc., etc., because their client[[s) would eventually be able to connect the dots and identify who they are. So if you are for real, shame on you, and if you are not for real, shame on you again.

marv2
04-04-2017, 08:22 PM
To add on to my last post, if you were for real, you wouldn't be posting all of these secret details on a public forum, regardless of your self professed anonymity. A business professional would be bound to a confidentiality agreement and would not risk posting endless details on a public forum in regards to contracts, music projects, etc., etc., because their client[[s) would eventually be able to connect the dots and identify who they are. So if you are for real, shame on you, and if you are not for real, shame on you again.

Ah hummmmm.......... Thank you Helga.

RanRan79
04-04-2017, 08:32 PM
"Originally Posted by marv2 October 2016
I don't even go into most Diana Ross threads on here."

LOLOLOL

Ms. Roberta, to be fair to Marv, he did say "most" and as far as I can tell he doesn't appear in "most" Diana threads.

RanRan79
04-04-2017, 08:33 PM
If this were true, I have a hard time believing that either of the parties involved [[especially Miss Ross), would divulge the details of failed contractual negotiations. For someone who refuses to identify themselves, you post a lot of B.S.

Don't we hear about failed contract negotiations all of the time from the industry? Why would Diana's and Clive's be any different?

mpn1jco
04-04-2017, 09:22 PM
The standard agreement for contract negotiations in the entertainment industry stipulate that information disclosed during negotiations:

is confidential;
should only be used for a stated specific purpose;
should not be shown to anyone other than certain permitted persons; and
should be returned or destroyed if the deal does not go ahead.


There are infinite problems for disclosing negotiations. What if another high profile artist wanted to work with Clive for a similar project and Clive said gave a polite denial such as " We don't have the budget right now." However, he was pursing another high profile artist for mulit million dollar deals. This could substantially or permanently damage relations with this artist and their camp.

If Clive pursued an artist for a deal and they went elsewhere with a similar project and it bombed, then it could be perceived that his judgment was poor and he is 'losing his touch'. "What was on his mind attempting to sign a washed up has been for that amount of money? "

Information is leaked all the time. Elvis was supposed to be in a Star Is Born with Streisand for example.

However, It is highly unusual for a major artist to authorize such claims to be freely broadcast in public forums on their behalf by an anonymous individual. Then again it may be a most unusual day. I always trust people who do not identify themselves as a rule of thumb.

I only hope that at age 73 that I will have the stamina to maintain Ross' rigorous touring schedule, particularly touring non-stop, squeezing in world tour dates also, for almost 11 years! Most people would be content to spend time with their families at her age. Keep on Ross, you are truly an inspiration!

mpn1jco
04-04-2017, 09:27 PM
"Originally Posted by marv2 October 2016
I don't even go into most Diana Ross threads on here."

LOLOLOL


It is April 2017 so evidently he changed his mind. What is the point?

nomis
04-04-2017, 09:39 PM
she and Clive are still friends.thou as someone else has posted hes 85 now so sadly his executive days have really passed - he threw a pre Grammy bash in her honour a few years back [[Feb 11th 2012) which was sadly marred by the news that Whitney was dead in a hotel room upstairs.....

captainjames
04-04-2017, 09:42 PM
In reality I am not sure Diana even wants a contract or record deal. I am sure to most fans that is what we would like to see but I think Diana has found that place in her career and life that she is happy just doing Diana.

nomis
04-04-2017, 09:48 PM
mentioning Clive on this thread reminded me how he wrote a blistering attack in Billboard [[?) on the Academy Awards for refusing to nominate "Do You Know Where Your Going To ? [[Theme from Mahogany) for best song..which left the music industry shocked and caused a re- think for the Academy..whats more surprising was she wasnt even on Arista ! he went to bat for the competion.....

Nitro2015
04-04-2017, 10:11 PM
Let me clarify this once and for all. Diana continues to get offers of record deals and has done so for the past few years. There are a couple of labels that want her to record "standards" albums in the vein of the great American Songbook. This is what Clive Davis had her in mind for. He made Diana a more than decent offer for a 4 album deal which she came quite close to signing, but she felt that the market was already over flooded with veteran artists putting this type of album out so she backed out at the last minute. Davis has subsequently returned with similar offers.


Bluebrock, I appreciate your insights but I have a hard time believing this. It's easy to find 2004 interviews with Diana saying things like "Nobody wants me". She made very public at the time the total disdain and rejection record labels in U.S. were having for her.

I find hard to believe that she was being offered multiple deals by Clive Davis and, at the same time, publicly complaining about the lack of interest of the music industry in her.

In other occasions, like Oprah 2011 and the Grammys 2012, she said she would love to record new music, but didn't elaborate the reasons why she wouldn't record new material. It makes sense the fact that she refuses the 360°'s types of deals.

I know you are much more aware than me of the real reasons Diana is retired of the recording industry, but some things are still strange...

mpn1jco
04-04-2017, 10:22 PM
When I Love You was released, Ross talked about how difficult it was for her to secure a record deal as a veteran artist. She also discussed the industry's treatment of veteran artists; putting them out to pasture. On the final Oprah, Ross said she would really like to be recording a new album "BUT THEY WON'T LET ME." Ross also gave interviews discussing her frustration with her rejection by the record industry, stating it was like a puppy pissing on your flower garden. Also discussed by Ross was the possibility of having to go the independent route since the majors didn't want her., but said she said didn't want to do that. Patti Labelle has been similarly as outspoken on how the industry treats veteran artists. I admire for Ross for being so honest about her dilemma rather than pretend she was rejecting lucrative offers left and right. For other veteran artists rejected by the music industry she let them know they were not alone, and it took courage to do that.

marv2
04-04-2017, 10:30 PM
In reality I am not sure Diana even wants a contract or record deal. I am sure to most fans that is what we would like to see but I think Diana has found that place in her career and life that she is happy just doing Diana.

Nah, she's not happy. She wants to make more money.

marv2
04-04-2017, 10:32 PM
When I Love You was released, Ross talked about how difficult it was for her to secure a record deal as a veteran artist. She also discussed the industry's treatment of veteran artists; putting them out to pasture. On the final Oprah, Ross said she would really like to be recording a new album "BUT THEY WON'T LET ME." Ross also gave interviews discussing her frustration with her rejection by the record industry, stating it was like a puppy pissing on your flower garden. Also discussed by Ross was the possibility of having to go the independent route since the majors didn't want her., but said she said didn't want to do that. Patti Labelle has been similarly as outspoken on how the industry treats veteran artists. I admire for Ross for being so honest about her dilemma rather than pretend she was rejecting lucrative offers left and right.

Why doesn't she just put out her own music and sell it online? She afford to do that. Prince did it. Heck even Mary Wilson and Martha Reeves have done that. Record some songs and sell them direct.

marv2
04-04-2017, 10:36 PM
mentioning Clive on this thread reminded me how he wrote a blistering attack in Billboard [[?) on the Academy Awards for refusing to nominate "Do You Know Where Your Going To ? [[Theme from Mahogany) for best song..which left the music industry shocked and caused a re- think for the Academy..whats more surprising was she wasnt even on Arista ! he went to bat for the competion.....


Yeah I remember the song "I'm Easy" won by Keith Carradine. That was 40 years ago and I remember! LOL


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9z88MYEpI3Q

Nitro2015
04-04-2017, 10:40 PM
When I Love You was released, Ross talked about how difficult it was for her to secure a record deal as a veteran artist. She also discussed the industry's treatment of veteran artists; putting them out to pasture. On the final Oprah, Ross said she would really like to be recording a new album "BUT THEY WON'T LET ME." Ross also gave interviews discussing her frustration with her rejection by the record industry, stating it was like a puppy pissing on your flower garden. Also discussed by Ross was the possibility of having to go the independent route since the majors didn't want her., but said she said didn't want to do that. Patti Labelle has been similarly as outspoken on how the industry treats veteran artists. I admire for Ross for being so honest about her dilemma rather than pretend she was rejecting lucrative offers left and right. For other veteran artists rejected by the music industry she let them know they were not alone, and it took courage to do that.

Exactly. Exactly.

Diana does not give much details, but she let it be known that it was virtually impossible for her to secure a record deal or record new music several times.

I know that the record industry is very complex and there are many types of deals, but I still find odd that she had Clive Davis offering her different possibilities of a big contract when he was still a major player in the game [[mid-00's) and Diana complaining that nobody wanted her at the same time [[2004-2005). Something just does not make sense.

Maybe Diana's negociations with Clive happened after those interviews, but I still find strange her complaining when, in reality, she had the choice if she really wanted to...
Something just don't click.

If only someone could find the [[video) interview when she mentions Clive and the total lack of interest of the record industry in her... it's from the 2004-2005 era, she is absolutely gorgeous and the interviewee says she looks like a 30-year-old woman at 60.

marv2
04-04-2017, 10:49 PM
Exactly. Exactly.

Diana does not give much details, but she let it be known that it was virtually impossible for her to secure a record deal or record new music several times.

I know that the record industry is very complex and there are many types of deals, but I still find odd that she had Clive Davis offering her different possibilities of a big contract when he was still a major player in the game [[mid-00's) and Diana complaining that nobody wanted her at the same time [[2004-2005). Something just does not make sense.

Maybe Diana's negociations with Clive happened after those interviews, but I still find strange her complaining when, in reality, she had the choice if she really wanted to...
Something just don't click.

If only someone could find the [[video) interview when she mentions Clive and the total lack of interest of the record industry in her... it's from the 2004-2005 era, she is absolutely gorgeous and the interviewee says she looks like a 30-year-old woman at 60.

I first remember hearing her complain about it to Mary Hart on Entertainment Tonight.

Nitro2015
04-04-2017, 10:56 PM
I first remember hearing her complain about it to Mary Hart on Entertainment Tonight.

Thank you Marv2.

The interview I'm mentioning it was not on ET, but I'm gonna check that too.

marv2
04-04-2017, 11:05 PM
Thank you Marv2.

The interview I'm mentioning it was not on ET, but I'm gonna check that too.

You're welcome. If it helps, I also remember the segment has something to do with her preparing for a tour.

RanRan79
04-05-2017, 02:34 AM
Nah, she's not happy. She wants to make more money.

She seems pretty happy to me. Seems to really enjoy the family life. But then you and I are both on the outside looking in so who knows how she really feels unless she tells us.

RanRan79
04-05-2017, 02:38 AM
Why doesn't she just put out her own music and sell it online? She afford to do that. Prince did it. Heck even Mary Wilson and Martha Reeves have done that. Record some songs and sell them direct.

Good point. Maybe the rumor of her being disinterested in recording at this point has some truth to it. Many vets have gone the independent/online route, so if she hasn't by this point maybe she just doesn't want to record. I have to remember that this woman is in her 70s, a grandmother for goodness sakes. Her career goals must be different at this point in her life than they were even ten years ago.

mpn1jco
04-05-2017, 02:55 AM
Exactly. Exactly.

Diana does not give much details, but she let it be known that it was virtually impossible for her to secure a record deal or record new music several times.

I know that the record industry is very complex and there are many types of deals, but I still find odd that she had Clive Davis offering her different possibilities of a big contract when he was still a major player in the game [[mid-00's) and Diana complaining that nobody wanted her at the same time [[2004-2005). Something just does not make sense.

Maybe Diana's negociations with Clive happened after those interviews, but I still find strange her complaining when, in reality, she had the choice if she really wanted to...
Something just don't click.

If only someone could find the [[video) interview when she mentions Clive and the total lack of interest of the record industry in her... it's from the 2004-2005 era, she is absolutely gorgeous and the interviewee says she looks like a 30-year-old woman at 60.

I remember all of those interviews very well and they will be presenting themselves in the near future.

I am not aware of contract negotiations in the entertainment industry that do not have a non- disclosure clause. I have also never heard of a major artist giving authority to an anonymous individual to divulge protected, confidential, and privileged information in a public forum, particularly with it attached to names of artists who are still major players in the industry. The consequences of even slight betrayals of trust are usually very severe in the entertainment industry. This is very bizarre and highly unusual. I have never encountered this before. The information that is being provided also directly contradicts what is extensively on the public record.

I

Bluebrock
04-05-2017, 07:00 AM
If Diana were to record some standards albums, I would want them to be along the lines of Diana Sings Stevie Wonder, Diana Sings Smokey Robinson, Diana Sings Ashford & Simpson, Diana Sings Bacharach & David.... See where I'm going with this?
Something like that would indeed be good. I am liking the sound of those kind of albums, and even better with the possible participation of some of those legendary artists.

Bluebrock
04-05-2017, 07:01 AM
Nah, she's not happy. She wants to make more money.
And you would know she is not happy of course!! lol!!

marv2
04-05-2017, 08:57 AM
And you would know she is not happy of course!! lol!!

Probably much more than you would. I am on this side of the pond! LOL!!!

endlesslove
04-05-2017, 09:20 AM
Hello to all.

I do not wish to offend anyone. I do not wish to take sides. I have to say this. Someone needs to explain themselves in light of overwhelming evidence. I feel deceived.

thommg
04-05-2017, 11:29 AM
Something like that would indeed be good. I am liking the sound of those kind of albums, and even better with the possible participation of some of those legendary artists.

Frankly, Bluebrock, songs by those writers are our standards. No need to go all the way back to the 1930's! Diana already did those standards with the Supremes and during her Lady Sings The Blues period.

RanRan79
04-05-2017, 11:50 AM
Hello to all.

I do not wish to offend anyone. I do not wish to take sides. I have to say this. Someone needs to explain themselves in light of overwhelming evidence. I feel deceived.

No need to feel deceived. This is the internet, where everyone and their mother claims to be in the know about something. And for as long as I've been lurking, reading posts in this group [[for a couple years now), Soulful Detroit is full of people who will bet their lives that they know what they are talking about when it comes to Motowners [[especially certain members of the Supremes) and their private and business lives. Some of them may tell some truths, some of them most certainly are lying [[or uttering wishful thinking). One of the prerequisites I placed on myself before officially joining was to be certain to take "inside information" displayed here with a grain of salt and to view some of the so called "inside information" as nothing more than mindless entertainment. Because face it: people lie. It is what it is.

endlesslove
04-05-2017, 01:43 PM
No need to feel deceived. This is the internet, where everyone and their mother claims to be in the know about something. And for as long as I've been lurking, reading posts in this group [[for a couple years now), Soulful Detroit is full of people who will bet their lives that they know what they are talking about when it comes to Motowners [[especially certain members of the Supremes) and their private and business lives. Some of them may tell some truths, some of them most certainly are lying [[or uttering wishful thinking). One of the prerequisites I placed on myself before officially joining was to be certain to take "inside information" displayed here with a grain of salt and to view some of the so called "inside information" as nothing more than mindless entertainment. Because face it: people lie. It is what it is.
Your words are helping me work this. I have watched so many battles in this forum through the years, but this is the only thread I have taken personal. It is going to take awhile to process this. I feel like a fool.

Bluebrock
04-05-2017, 01:48 PM
I always appreciate your insight Bluebrock. Thank you for your response. I have a question you may be able to answer. Is there any possibility the Harold Arlen project will ever be released. I assume Diana owns the masters and with the interest in her back catalogue [[vaulted catalogue included), I assume the release would be welcomed. Are you familiar with the sessions?
I do think it will eventually get an official release. Not sure when though. That would be up to Diana who owns the masters. It was a strange move by Diana to record this album when she did, and i think it was the correct decision to can the project when they did. RCA wanted a more contemporary album at that particular time but i would love to hear it now.

Nitro2015
04-05-2017, 01:54 PM
Calm down people, despite the fact that I appointed some serious incongruencies in regard to Diana Ross/Clive Davis situation in 2004/2005 I do appreciate and totally believe Bluebrock's precious contributions to this thread and this forum.

He is not supposed to know everything or every aspect about Diana's career. And things behind-the-scenes are very multi-dimentional.

I don't think it's fair to judge him that way.

Yes, I can't deny that it seems unlikely to me that Diana had so many offers and opportunities to return to the studio or to sign with Clive, by the simple fact [[and register) of her public statements and everything that we've discussed here before. This is just my personal opinion and I've never put into doubt Bluebrock's affirmations. I will repeat: I trust him completely and don't expect him to know everything.

endlesslove
04-05-2017, 02:35 PM
A floodgate of concerns, not just one. This one issue has opened a can of worms. Please, I do not want to offend anyone. I can't shake this, and my gut is telling me something not very nice. My final word.

RanRan79
04-05-2017, 02:36 PM
Your words are helping me work this. I have watched so many battles in this forum through the years, but this is the only thread I have taken personal. It is going to take awhile to process this. I feel like a fool.

Unless Diana Ross is your family or personal friend, you shouldn't take anything said about her personally. There are actually people in this forum who would love for you to take it personal when it comes to her. They get off on the reactions. Lol Don't feel foolish, just jump into all of these great threads, give your two cents, take it all in, and use your common sense to decipher what's real and what's fake.

RanRan79
04-05-2017, 02:40 PM
I do think it will eventually get an official release. Not sure when though. That would be up to Diana who owns the masters. It was a strange move by Diana to record this album when she did, and i think it was the correct decision to can the project when they did. RCA wanted a more contemporary album at that particular time but i would love to hear it now.

"It was a strange move" should be the title of a book specifically devoted to Diana's RCA years Bluebrock. IMO she made two barely functional albums there. And while she released a couple of great cuts from 1981-1985, her album choices were ridiculous for someone of her talents and legendary standing. It's quite possible that the unreleased album might just end up being the best effort of the bunch.

Bluebrock
04-05-2017, 02:46 PM
"It was a strange move" should be the title of a book specifically devoted to Diana's RCA years Bluebrock. IMO she made two barely functional albums there. And while she released a couple of great cuts from 1981-1985, her album choices were ridiculous for someone of her talents and legendary standing. It's quite possible that the unreleased album might just end up being the best effort of the bunch.
I quite agree. Her first 3 albums were average at very best, but i thought she was just finding her feet when the relationship soured. Maybe this album is something special. Her singing on it appears to be more committed which would make you feel she believed in the songs, unlike the workmanlike performances of some of the duds on those early albums.

RanRan79
04-05-2017, 02:58 PM
Calm down people, despite the fact that I appointed some serious incongruencies in regard to Diana Ross/Clive Davis situation in 2004/2005 I do appreciate and totally believe Bluebrock's precious contributions to this thread and this forum.

He is not supposed to know everything or every aspect about Diana's career. And things behind-the-scenes are very multi-dimentional.

I don't think it's fair to judge him that way.

Yes, I can't deny that it seems unlikely to me that Diana had so many offers and opportunities to return to the studio or to sign with Clive, by the simple fact [[and register) of her public statements and everything that we've discussed here before. This is just my personal opinion and I've never put into doubt Bluebrock's affirmations. I will repeat: I trust him completely and don't expect him to know everything.

I would also like to add, in case there was some confusion, that I am not asserting that Bluebrock is lying about anything. I don't know him outside of this forum, so I can't say one way or the other. What I do know is that he's not the only one who posts around here claiming to know stuff. If I'm going to call Bluebrock an out and out liar, then I'm calling everyone else that too. But as a rule I never blindly believe anything anyone says on the internet unless they can back it up with tangible proof. Other than that it is hearsay and a lot of conjecture, and that's fine because it does give us a chance to rattle off our opinions about whatever has been presented and makes for good "conversation"...when people remain mature and sane.

RanRan79
04-05-2017, 03:00 PM
Nitro, in response to your issue about Diana's complaints in contrast to Bluebrock's information about Clive, I will point out to you to remember who we're talking about here: Diana Ross. Lol Clearly throughout her career she has demonstrated that she's not always the most reasonable person. [[Again, check out her RCA albums. LOL) It would not surprise me in the least to find out that Clive was offering Diana a contract and she rebuffed the offer or offers. For one, she is said to be a complete control freak. Clive Davis is not just an executive but one who knows that he knows what he is doing. I don't find it hard to believe that Diana would not want to work for someone she couldn't control. Add to that if Clive was coming to the table with these American songbook ideas and Diana totally not wanting to do that [[even though that's what she ultimately ended up doing anyway), she wouldn't sign that contract. Add to that the fact that half truths and flat out lies are told in the business ALL THE TIME, I can see where it's possible that she had the offers from Clive and yet spun a narrative that no one wanted her. Maybe she hoped more offers would pour in after these kinds of declaratory statements from record companies willing to bend over backwards to have a star of her caliber on the roster, and maybe affording her the chance to do whatever she wanted, creatively speaking. And then she got her feelings hurt when it didn't work. Those are my possible scenarios. Lol

RanRan79
04-05-2017, 03:11 PM
I quite agree. Her first 3 albums were average at very best, but i thought she was just finding her feet when the relationship soured. Maybe this album is something special. Her singing on it appears to be more committed which would make you feel she believed in the songs, unlike the workmanlike performances of some of the duds on those early albums.

Worse decision she made was producing herself. Then she's doing stuff with Darryl Hall and the Bee Gees [[although "Swept Away" was great). At least two of those early albums should have been produced by Lionel Richie. She should have put her big girl panties on and gone back into the studio with Masser. I know reactions are mixed when it comes to what Luther did with Dionne [[I like most of it), but he and Aretha had a great thing going. The worse album of the RCA bunch was that bs Red Hot Rhythm and Blues. There was nothing red hot and very little R&B on it. She should have let Luther have a crack at the entire project. She was trying so hard to be relevant to the kids that she was releasing crap, instead of looking at her peers [[Gladys Knight, Patti Labelle, Aretha Franklin) who were having hits because they were staying somewhat true to who they have always been and doing music that grown folks AND kids could get into. Some folks like to think "Dreamgirl" did Diana's hit making career in. I call bullsh*t. Her hits stopped because her music sucked. No ifs, ands or buts about it.

Nitro2015
04-05-2017, 03:17 PM
Nitro, in response to your issue about Diana's complaints in contrast to Bluebrock's information about Clive, I will point out to you to remember who we're talking about here: Diana Ross. Lol Clearly throughout her career she has demonstrated that she's not always the most reasonable person. [[Again, check out her RCA albums. LOL) It would not surprise me in the least to find out that Clive was offering Diana a contract and she rebuffed the offer or offers. For one, she is said to be a complete control freak. Clive Davis is not just an executive but one who knows that he knows what he is doing. I don't find it hard to believe that Diana would not want to work for someone she couldn't control. Add to that if Clive was coming to the table with these American songbook ideas and Diana totally not wanting to do that [[even though that's what she ultimately ended up doing anyway), she wouldn't sign that contract. Add to that the fact that half truths and flat out lies are told in the business ALL THE TIME, I can see where it's possible that she had the offers from Clive and yet spun a narrative that no one wanted her. Maybe she hoped more offers would pour in after these kinds of declaratory statements from record companies willing to bend over backwards to have a star of her caliber on the roster, and maybe affording her the chance to do whatever she wanted, creatively speaking. And then she got her feelings hurt when it didn't work. Those are my possible scenarios. Lol


Very well put Ranran79. You said everything.

Reflecting about everything that went on, this scenario seems the most reasonable one.

Thanks for your sensitivity and delicacy in regard to the issue.

Roberta75
04-05-2017, 03:20 PM
Nitro, in response to your issue about Diana's complaints in contrast to Bluebrock's information about Clive, I will point out to you to remember who we're talking about here: Diana Ross. Lol Clearly throughout her career she has demonstrated that she's not always the most reasonable person. [[Again, check out her RCA albums. LOL) It would not surprise me in the least to find out that Clive was offering Diana a contract and she rebuffed the offer or offers. For one, she is said to be a complete control freak. Clive Davis is not just an executive but one who knows that he knows what he is doing. I don't find it hard to believe that Diana would not want to work for someone she couldn't control. Add to that if Clive was coming to the table with these American songbook ideas and Diana totally not wanting to do that [[even though that's what she ultimately ended up doing anyway), she wouldn't sign that contract. Add to that the fact that half truths and flat out lies are told in the business ALL THE TIME, I can see where it's possible that she had the offers from Clive and yet spun a narrative that no one wanted her. Maybe she hoped more offers would pour in after these kinds of declaratory statements from record companies willing to bend over backwards to have a star of her caliber on the roster, and maybe affording her the chance to do whatever she wanted, creatively speaking. And then she got her feelings hurt when it didn't work. Those are my possible scenarios. Lol

Well I do know Bluebrock outsides of this forum and hes a spiritual and honest and positive and kind gentleman that Im proud to call my good friend. Thats all i am going to say here.

Fondly,

Roberta

Nitro2015
04-05-2017, 03:26 PM
Well I do know Bluebrock outsides of this forum and hes a spiritual and honest and positive and kind gentleman that Im proud to call my good friend. Thats all i am going to say here.

Fondly,

Roberta

I don't know Bluebrock personally, but I do feel he is exactly like that.

I appreciate everything he says and it was never my intention to put him in doubt.

Thank you Bluebrock for all your precious insights and gentle responses to our doubts and questions about Diana Ross's career.

Nitro2015
04-05-2017, 03:35 PM
She was trying so hard to be relevant to the kids that she was releasing crap, instead of looking at her peers [[Gladys Knight, Patti Labelle, Aretha Franklin) who were having hits because they were staying somewhat true to who they have always been and doing music that grown folks AND kids could get into. Some folks like to think "Dreamgirl" did Diana's hit making career in. I call bullsh*t. Her hits stopped because her music sucked. No ifs, ands or buts about it.


This phase in Diana Ross's career really reminds me of what happened twenty years later with Janet Jackson in the 00's.

Both Diana and Janet started a third decade as hit-makers with high profile albums and singles [[Diana's 1980 "diana" and Janet's 2001 "All For You") and both suffered terrible commercial setbacks the following years.

They went from the highest highs to the lowest lows.

Instead of producing high quality music, they tried to stay commercially relevant with younger audiences and by the end of the decade [[Diana in the 80's and Janet in the 00's), their legacies had suffered serious damage in U.S.

Diana and Janet were the biggest of the biggest female popstars at their respective times and both suffered terrible downfalls after some misguided career choices.

Roberta75
04-05-2017, 03:59 PM
This phase in Diana Ross's career really reminds me of what happened twenty years later with Janet Jackson in the 00's.

Both Diana and Janet started a third decade as hit-makers with high profile albums and singles [[Diana's 1980 "diana" and Janet's 2001 "All For You") and both suffered terrible commercial setbacks the following years.

They went from the highest highs to the lowest lows.

Instead of producing high quality music, they tried to stay commercially relevant with younger audiences and by the end of the decade [[Diana in the 80's and Janet in the 00's), their legacies had suffered serious damage in U.S.

Diana and Janet were the biggest of the biggest female popstars at their respective times and both suffered terrible downfalls after some misguided career choices.

The good thing is both ladies are healthy and wealthy and more important styill with us.

Fondly,

Roberta

mpn1jco
04-05-2017, 04:10 PM
I don't want to call anyone a liar in this forum, that is unfair. I however, will not believe anything by an anonymous poster who has no proof or palpable evidence to support his claims, and the information consistently and substantially contradicts the public record, common sense, and standard protocol. Generally when credibility issues present themselves, the burden of proof shifts to the individual under scrutiny and that person clears things up for once and for all and we all move on. This is not happening. If that doesn't happen that cloud of dishonesty will forever hover over them. Character references by anonymous individuals who already have substantial credibility issues is not tangible evidence. Some people will operate on blind faith, others will not. The choice is yours. It is very wrong to anticipate and expect people to operate on blind faith in this day and age and particularly on the internet.

RanRan79
04-05-2017, 08:07 PM
Very well put Ranran79. You said everything.

Reflecting about everything that went on, this scenario seems the most reasonable one.

Thanks for your sensitivity and delicacy in regard to the issue.

No problem Nitro.

RanRan79
04-05-2017, 08:09 PM
Well I do know Bluebrock outsides of this forum and hes a spiritual and honest and positive and kind gentleman that Im proud to call my good friend. Thats all i am going to say here.

Fondly,

Roberta

And defending his character is well within the bounds for someone who knows him as you do Ms. Roberta. Hopefully the attacks can stop and we can all just get to discussing the music and our opinions without some of the silliness that has arisen.

RanRan79
04-05-2017, 08:14 PM
This phase in Diana Ross's career really reminds me of what happened twenty years later with Janet Jackson in the 00's.

Both Diana and Janet started a third decade as hit-makers with high profile albums and singles [[Diana's 1980 "diana" and Janet's 2001 "All For You") and both suffered terrible commercial setbacks the following years.

They went from the highest highs to the lowest lows.

Instead of producing high quality music, they tried to stay commercially relevant with younger audiences and by the end of the decade [[Diana in the 80's and Janet in the 00's), their legacies had suffered serious damage in U.S.

Diana and Janet were the biggest of the biggest female popstars at their respective times and both suffered terrible downfalls after some misguided career choices.

Absolutely agree, except I think Diana's was worst. I can give Janet the benefit of the doubt because the music she was doing wasn't much different than what she had already been doing, it's just that it didn't show any growth and it was clear she was competing with the new girls on the block. With Diana, she was going in a completely different direction, doing stuff she never would have considered [[or been allowed to consider) if she were still under Gordy. Diana sealed her legacy after the Supremes during the entire 70s and early 80s. But her legacy would be even richer if she had followed in the steps of the other ladies I mentioned above.

RanRan79
04-05-2017, 08:18 PM
The good thing is both ladies are healthy and wealthy and more important styill with us.

Fondly,

Roberta

Diana seems like she's doing very well. Doesn't seem to be slowing down much at all and I love it. Hopefully she'll be like Betty White and Cisely Tyson, in her 90s and still doing it. Seems she's happy with the family life too. And Janet, finally getting her baby after all these years. I hate that their musical legacies have these dark years to them, but we still have tons of great music that I enjoy still today. And I don't rule out something great from either of them in the future.

RanRan79
04-05-2017, 08:23 PM
It is very wrong to anticipate and expect people to operate on blind faith in this day and age and particularly on the internet.

It's the internet, where people are posting child pornography, circulating fake documents as proof of non events, raping people on live video, even people getting their asses kicked or killed over a freakin Facebook post. This is not the place for faith.

endlesslove
04-05-2017, 09:26 PM
Well I do know Bluebrock outsides of this forum and hes a spiritual and honest and positive and kind gentleman that Im proud to call my good friend. Thats all i am going to say here.

Fondly,

Roberta
Hi Roberta. Can you post the link to your online blog, profile, or website. That could help clear this up so people can move on. I know this is always going to linger in the forum. Let's nip it in the bud with facts not editorials. No progress has been made whatsoever. Oh well.. I know why. Goodnight to all.

endlesslove
04-05-2017, 09:43 PM
I don't want to call anyone a liar in this forum, that is unfair. I however, will not believe anything by an anonymous poster who has no proof or palpable evidence to support his claims, and the information consistently and substantially contradicts the public record, common sense, and standard protocol. Generally when credibility issues present themselves, the burden of proof shifts to the individual under scrutiny and that person clears things up for once and for all and we all move on. This is not happening. If that doesn't happen that cloud of dishonesty will forever hover over them. Character references by anonymous individuals who already have substantial credibility issues is not tangible evidence. Some people will operate on blind faith, others will not. The choice is yours. It is very wrong to anticipate and expect people to operate on blind faith in this day and age and particularly on the internet.

Thank you sir. You are a wise man.

mpn1jco
04-05-2017, 10:06 PM
Hi Roberta. Can you post the link to your online blog, profile, or website. That could help clear this up so people can move on. I know this is always going to linger in the forum. Let's nip it in the bud with facts not editorials. No progress has been made whatsoever. Oh well.. I know why. Goodnight to all.

I suggest you move on from this topic. I don't mean that harshly, but because you are hoping for these people to prove themselves and that is not going to happen. You .can put people on ignore

nomis
04-05-2017, 10:07 PM
we are all guests here On Ralphs forum we need to respect that.

mpn1jco
04-05-2017, 10:23 PM
Back on topic. I don't expect a new album from Ross. If anyone gets news otherwise hopefully they will post it here.

nomis
04-05-2017, 10:43 PM
it would be interesting if the recordings Diana worked on at her home studio in the early -mid 1970s [[which apparently Gordy deemed were not up to proffessional quality) could be remixed,rebooted with existing vocal tracks...

mpn1jco
04-05-2017, 11:01 PM
it would be interesting if the recordings Diana worked on at her home studio in the early -mid 1970s [[which apparently Gordy deemed were not up to proffessional quality) could be remixed,rebooted with existing vocal tracks...
I never knew about these. Tell more please...

nomis
04-05-2017, 11:26 PM
Mpn1co - thats all i know..she built a studio in her home,worked on stuff then played it to Berry who said it wasnt up to scratch..i believe its in the notes at the end of Taraborelli's book last book on her...

RanRan79
04-06-2017, 02:21 PM
it would be interesting if the recordings Diana worked on at her home studio in the early -mid 1970s [[which apparently Gordy deemed were not up to proffessional quality) could be remixed,rebooted with existing vocal tracks...

Wow, I didn't know this. That would be great but if Gordy said the tracks sucked, I could see Diana's pride getting in the way of letting the public at them. I also could see her immediately setting fire to them after Gordy's criticism. Lol

jobeterob
04-06-2017, 11:16 PM
I don't know Bluebrock personally, but I do feel he is exactly like that.

I appreciate everything he says and it was never my intention to put him in doubt.

Thank you Bluebrock for all your precious insights and gentle responses to our doubts and questions about Diana Ross's career.

Roberta has been here a long time, stays level headed and stands up to bullying and bully's.

Her comments are worthy of consideration

PeaceNHarmony
04-07-2017, 08:26 AM
Roberta has been here a long time, stays level headed and stands up to bullying and bully's.

Her comments are worthy of consideration
A 'bravo' to that! Ms. Roberta is one of the forum's most followed posters.

reese
04-07-2017, 09:40 AM
Wow, I didn't know this. That would be great but if Gordy said the tracks sucked, I could see Diana's pride getting in the way of letting the public at them. I also could see her immediately setting fire to them after Gordy's criticism. Lol

I don't know if the recordings themselves were bad, performance-wise. From what I remember reading, Diana's home studio was technically below standard.

mpn1jco
04-07-2017, 11:09 AM
Roberta has been here a long time, stays level headed and stands up to bullying and bully's.

Her comments are worthy of consideration
Many think otherwise.

mpn1jco
04-07-2017, 11:12 AM
Roberta has been here a long time, stays level headed and stands up to bullying and bully's.

Her comments are worthy of consideration
I respectfully completely disagree. Thanks.
Anyone actively or on the fringe of the entertainment industry and is being courted by major publishers for large sums would at the minimum have a Facebook site or an online profile - because he is CONNECTED. Players in the entertainment industry have contributed to this forum in the past and have not done so anonymously. His information could be posted and put an end to the fraud claims once and for all. This is not going to happen and people can draw their own conclusions as to why. I certainly have. Validation by a controversial anonymous poster is not going to resolve the issue. This poster acting as a character witness couldn't be more damaging in some people's opinion.

THere is one person who can resolve this but he is not. I think it best for all to move on.

mpn1jco
04-07-2017, 11:25 AM
I don't know if the recordings themselves were bad, performance-wise. From what I remember reading, Diana's home studio was technically below standard.
Even if they are below standard, I would like to hear them. Ross being creative and 'making her own kind of music is very interesting.

RanRan79
04-07-2017, 11:35 AM
I don't know if the recordings themselves were bad, performance-wise. From what I remember reading, Diana's home studio was technically below standard.

Oh I see. Well, I guess it's a few more gems to add to the wish list. Lol

vgalindo
04-07-2017, 12:56 PM
Roberta has been here a long time, stays level headed and stands up to bullying and bully's.

Her comments are worthy of consideration

I agree 100 percent with you! Love Roberta's posts she is very considerate and fair.

endlesslove
04-07-2017, 01:15 PM
I recently watched her bait people to saying things that would get them banned. I think that is just horrible. It looks to me like she is a stalker too. I lurked in the forum because I cannot condone that type of behavior by her or other members.

jazzyandy
01-21-2019, 10:54 AM
When Diana Ross went to RCA for a reported $20million, this was a coup. RCA was the dumbest major label and that's saying something. All their product came back as returns three months later, but, too late, they'd already shipped enough to 'earn' gold record status and that's all the stockholders cared about. Occasionally they got lucky with a hot act, but the important thing here is that the label didn't need to make money in the 1970s, just like Columbia didn't in the 1960s. They were part of much larger corporations. In the 1970s, these big labels kept buying up other ones to, again, impress the stockholders, but a roster of 100 stiff acts wasn't about to improve what had been a roster of 50 stiffs. We used to call it STOCKMARKET SHOWBIZ. Don't forget, until the recession of 1978, the biz was 100% returns on both the wholesale and retail levels. Therefore, any corporate outfit's record division would survive by the code of SHIPPING AND BILLING. They'd have returns coming back and would have to make good on equivalent project, PLUS ship and bill a greater amount than they'd done in the same quarter of the previous year. Eventually they'd get lucky, but they'd muddle on nonetheless. Another pitfall of STOCKMARKET SHOWBIZ was a hot act trying to up their payment to re-sign with their existing label, while taking offers from the competing labels. This usually proved dismal, as the Diana Ross deal illustrated, because the deep-pocket corporate labels would be paying for the reputation of the artist's past work. If they'd known anything about the music biz, they'd have sought out innovative artists. So back in 1980, RCA told its stockholders, who cared more about US Defense Dept contracts than any music, "Hey, we're about to sign Diana Ross." Applause. That's the way it worked.




I was wondering about Diana Ross's recording situation, contract-wise, after she parted ways with Motown in the early 2000's.

I remember that in 2004 interviews Diana said record companies were not interested in her and that Clive Davis would not return her phone calls.

She said that in a 2004 interview. In the same interview, the interviewee said that she looked like a 30-year-old woman at 60 and both laughed-, I've saw it in Youtube years ago but the video was removed. Diana also said that radio stations would play only her old records like "Baby Love".

I know that Diana had trouble selling records in U.S. in the 1990's but I think her situation, in terms of record deals, is far difficult to explain after Motown let her go.

Anyone has some insight about the reason she faced so much adversity to score a record deal after 2002?

I wonder too what really happened between her and Clive Davis.

carlo
01-21-2019, 08:58 PM
This usually proved dismal, as the Diana Ross deal illustrated, because the deep-pocket corporate labels would be paying for the reputation of the artist's past work. If they'd known anything about the music biz, they'd have sought out innovative artists. So back in 1980, RCA told its stockholders, who cared more about US Defense Dept contracts than any music, "Hey, we're about to sign Diana Ross." Applause. That's the way it worked.

When Ms Ross signed with RCA, her current album at that time was the biggest of her career, which was her "diana" album. Contrary to what you are saying, she was still a heavy hitter and I would argue, very much an innovative artist. She went in with Russ Terrana to remix the diana album before it was released and it became less disco and more rock dance, which in my opinion, was something very ground breaking for her and for Motown.

marv2
01-21-2019, 09:27 PM
Jazzyandy....Wow! Great information, great insight into how things really worked. Thank you and welcome to Soulful Detroit! Please post more.

jobeterob
01-21-2019, 09:59 PM
When Ms Ross signed with RCA, her current album at that time was the biggest of her career, which was her "diana" album. Contrary to what you are saying, she was still a heavy hitter and I would argue, very much an innovative artist. She went in with Russ Terrana to remix the diana album before it was released and it became less disco and more rock dance, which in my opinion, was something very ground breaking for her and for Motown.

Carlo: I always enjoy how you speak in defence of most Motown artists from time to time